Two new Zeniths
 

While I was at work, peverett delivered two zenith color roudies to my neighbor's house to await my return. Turns out, one of them is a 29JC20Q chassis with the Space Command 400 remote receiver. I have two SC 600 remotes. What is the difference between the 400 and 600 series? Will my 600 remote work with the 400 receiver?

I don't have any photos to post at the moment. I am awaiting my little brother to come help me move these sets from my neighbor's garage to mine. After that, I'll get some photos posted here.

Thanks again, Jody, for delivering the sets!

they sound like neat sets! Hope to see some pix soon!!!!!

Got the sets moved to my house today. The Space Command set has the monster 29JC20 chassis in it.

The 21FJP tested good. Chassis was mainly dusty with no rust. Will clean up good and shiny once I yank it out.

Noticed first that the Horz Output tube was missing. Every book and schematic I have says it uses the 6DQ5... as does the tube diagram in the set. Went to put one in, but wouldn't fit. Got to look a little closer, and come to find out, the tube socket IS NOT an 8 pin octal. Instead it had a 12 pin socket like in the later sets. I double checked everything to make sure I wasn't getting tube numbers mixed up, but still confused as to why the tube diagram isn't matching what's in the set. So, I found a 6JE6 and decided to put that in there once the time came.

I brought the chassis up slow on the variac with no bad surprises. There is a slight hum in the audio, so sounds like caps will need changing. Found the sound detector tube was dead, so changed that and got audio from the local stations.

After a while, I put in the 6JE6 HO tube to see what would happen. Well... nothing. Then I discovered the focus tube was dead, so changed that and got a picture. Success! Well, it isn't the best picture. Have a few inches of the bottom missing and convergence is off a good bit, but at least it's running. Color is working as well. Ran it for about 30 minutes.

The remote chassis works pretty good. Found that my 600 remotes operate just fine with the 400 chassis. All functions work, but needs a little cleaning here and there. Sometimes the channel selector just keeps on running. It never stops on channel 4... always goes right past it (and 4 is one of our locals). At one point, I lost the audio and couldn't figure out why. Turns out that something cause the "mute" function to engage.

I like all of the lights on the front. There is the tri-color emblem that is iluminated when the SC chassis is on. Then there are the different lights indicating whether it is set to HI, MeD, or LO volume. Kinda neat.

I feel like this set should play very well once the capacitors get swapped out.

The cabinet needs only minor attention... perhaps some touch up stain here and there.

The insides. Man that power transformer is a beast!

CRT shot so far. It ain't pretty, but it works! Some fresh lytics should whip this baby back into shape!

I love that set Charlie! The picture tube looks in pretty good shape (no delamination & good pix!)) Is it a 21FJ and is it the original?

just re-read your description and see it is a 21FJ. Man.... you're lucky not to have any delamination or green halo. My Admiral roundie has slight delamination (original tube) and my Sylvania roundie has a black matrix tube installed in 1978, but has green halo....

As far as I can tell, I think it has the original FJP in it. So far I have not found any date codes, but it is tagged as a Zenith. Examining it closely, there is some slight delamination around the extreme edges, but it's almost completely hidden by the mask. I am a bit surprised that it isn't worse.

Awesome set!
 

One of those full-featured roundie Zeniths in a huge cabinet is something I'd really like to get. I'm down to just one roundie (From three at one time). But the one I have is rather plain, without any special features.

I'd say your CRT isn't original, because the color of the screen doesn't match the mask. I know Zenith used at least two different paint colors on their masks to match the CRT. (One is kinda green, the other is a blueish-gray).

Doesn't mean much, I'm still jealous!:)

Re: Awesome set!
 

i had wondered about the color of the screen. I thought it looked rather "light" in color.

Perhaps I'll find some date codes the next time I get diggin around in it closer.

Man, that bad boy makes me wanna get my ol' roundie runnin'- think we decided it's a'65 Zenith.It was my grandad'[s set-1st color set I ever saw up close & personable-like. -Sandy G.

I wonder why somebody modified the set to use a different output tube
 

I have a 29jc20(non sc) and it DOES use one(6dq5). So does my spare chassis I have. That sounds strange. Zenith NEVER used a 6je6 in their sets to my knowledge, they used a 6hf5 after the 6dq5, then a 6js6, 6lb6 and finally, a 6lf6. My service manual does NOT show an alternate output tube for the set.

By the way, it is a '62 model(zenith's first color, after their RE entry into the color field(the did have a prototype in '56or 57, somebody on this board showed one, but then, they pulled out of color, untli 1961, for the '62 year, and brought out this set.

On that H.O....
 

I seem to remeber some type of Zenith chassis I was working on that had a notation on the tube chart that said "DO NOT SUBSTITUTE XXXX H.O. TUBE FOR XXXX H.O. TUBE" There was also a similar sticker placed near the tube socket.

Looked to be some kind of running change, but they obviously didn't want you to use any type of tube except whichever the set came with.

Can't remember the model number.

The Horz Output
 

Yes, every piece of paper I have here says to use the 6DQ5. But since the socket in the set is a 12 pin socket, I was obviously not going to be able to use what they said. Unfortunately, since the tube was missing, I have no idea of what they DID have in there running it. i just took a stab with the 6JE6 to see if it would work. I guess I am fortunate it did. Perhaps another 12 pin tube would be better, but at this point I don't know what to think.

Perhaps once I get the chassis out of the set, I'll find out if it looks like this socket was in there originally or if someone put it in later. Even if someone did put this socket in there later... why did they do it?

Very, very nice set. I remember we had a 29JC20 (non-remote) in a woodgrain metal cabinet in our electronics lab in high school over 30 years ago. We never fired it up, so I don't know to this day if if worked or not. Nice looking set, though. Had the old style Zenith channel selector knob that projected the channel number onto a screen in the center of the knob (I like that design, as it was on my old Zenith K2739 1963 b&w console--in fact, I like all Zenith's lighted channel selector schemes).

Interesting that your set has the emblem which lights up when the Space Command system is on. (The volume indicator lights are unusual as well; yours is the first Zenith SC set I've ever heard of with this feature and also with the illuminated Space Command on/off indicator.)

As to your set failing to stop on channel 4, I would look at the back of the tuner. There should be a wheel there, attached to the part of the tuner shaft that protrudes from the back of the tuner, with 12 adjustable tabs on it. Check to see if the one for channel 4 is set to the "skip channel" position. If so, set this tab to the "stop on channel" position. The tuner should now stop on channel 4 just as nice as you please.

BTW, I remember seeing your local channel 4 in my old neighborhood (a Cleveland suburb) years ago, before I had cable or Internet access. I live in a fringe area now where anything is possible as far as TV or FM DX is concerned (my FM radio dial lights up with stations from Detroit, Toledo, Ohio and southwest Ontario, Canada, in the summer when the skips are in), but my old neighborhood was a near-fringe reception area for Cleveland stations as well. When the weather conditions were exactly right, channel 4 from Port Arthur, Texas would push Detroit's NBC affiliate, WDIV (which is the station we usually get here on channel 4 in the spring and summer when the band opens up) right out of the picture (pun intended).

I once received channel 5 from Saginaw, Michigan when Cleveland's ABC affiliate, WEWS, also on channel 5, was off the air. The station in Saginaw is WNEM-TV and is, IIRC, a Fox or UPN affiliate now, but it used to be the area's NBC station.

When WNEM changed from NBC to UPN/Fox, the NBC network was picked up by WEYI, channel 25, in Flint or Bay City, Michigan (I'm not sure which). I have seen the latter station on occasion as well in the summer (when I still had an antenna, of course), when the PBS affiliate in Cleveland, WVIZ on channel 25, would sign off at one or two o'clock in the morning.

Jeff,

After checking closer, I figured out the little tabs you mention to make the Space Command skip or stop. This is my first set using a remote, so I am learning a few new things here.

Here is a shot if the emblem lit up as well as the volume level indicator...

The other set...
 

Here is the 2nd set of the two. This one uses the 25MC33 chassis. Looking inside it showed that this set was in the home of a HEAVY smoker! :smoke: Wow it is covered in there with major dirt and tar/nicotine!

I have not tried anything with this set as of yet. I have too many pulled apart in the garage as it is!

Yes, that's about the only thing I can think of which would cause the tuner to skip channel 4, yet stop on all the other local channels. The tuner in that set is the conventional strip turret, and the SC system is the same as Zenith used for years in its remote sets, so there is really nothing else much that can cause problems of this nature. About the only other things that can go wrong with this system are the drive gears becoming stripped or broken (this often happens when the owner or viewer attempts to operate the channel selector manually, against the resistance of the gear train--which of course is a one-way ticket to big trouble in a mechanical power tuning system, as these are not ordinarily meant to be operated manually except by a manual channel selector knob at the back of the set, to be used in case of motor drive failure), the tuning motor binding up or outright burning out, or a problem occurring in the SC chassis or even the remote hand unit itself. The solid-state SC remotes do not usually give much trouble unless they are dropped or otherwise abused; the only real problems I've ever heard being reported with these remotes are weak or dead batteries, or sometimes the contacts for the control buttons themselves becoming dirty, tarnished or otherwise contaminated.

The same thing happens with today's stock and universal remotes as well after years of use, but the new ones are the dickens of a thing to get apart to work on the buttons; the best thing to do in case of major trouble with unresponsive buttons, etc. in this case, assuming that new batteries don't remedy the problem, is to junk the old remote and get a new universal unit. Most TVs, VCRs and cable boxes with IR remote systems will work with universal remotes, so you won't have much trouble finding one which will work. I use an RCA 3-function universal remote with my 19" Zenith in my bedroom; it works perfectly, giving me the same type of control over all functions as the original full-function remote would have. The remote that came with the set, however, was a bare-bones unit with on/off, mute, OSD display on/off, volume up/down, and channel up/down; the original full-function remote would have cost much more--it was much cheaper to get a universal full-function remote, even if it is a different brand. Heck, if it works, who cares what brand the uni remote is, right?

BTW, I like how that Zenith emblem lights up with the SC chassis energized. Very unusual, IMO, to have a remote receiver on/off indicator, though; Zenith is the first manufacturer I've ever known to have such a feature on its older color sets.

However, I noticed in your picture of the volume indicator that the display looks as if it is in the shape of a letter H. Is this a moving bar type of display, with the middle of the H traveling vertically between the two long bars at either side of it as the volume was adjusted? I was under the impression, from having read another post in this thread, that the volume indicator in this set was three small incandescent lamps behind colored lenses, for low, medium and high volume, respectively.

BTW (2): I took a look at your website. You have a very fine collection of old TVs of several makes, including Magnavox and Sylvania (liking consoles as I do, I especially like the looks of your Maggie three-way unit; the Sylvania looks great as well).

As to your Halo-Light Sylvania TV, I agree with you; it is extremely unusual (almost unheard of, really) for the fluorescent HaloLight tube in these sets to last anywhere near five decades (most of these burn out or otherwise go bad within about five years, more or less). The only halfway legitimate explanation I can come up with for the exceptionally long life of the tube in your set is that the previous owner did not use the HaloLight function very much, if he/she used it at all.

Yes, that is correct... there are three individual lamps that light up an L, M, or H. The little window was somewhat dirty when i took that picture, but i've clean it up and looks much better now.

Surprisingly, the HaloLight does not have an On/Off switch. There is, however, a knob on the front panel that can turn the brightness of the light up and down (like a volume control). The only way the light can be turned off altogether is to get in there and pull the plug on it. When I found the set, it was still plugged in.

Charlie,

Your Curtis Mathes set is truly fab!








Stevehoffman.tv

Charlie, I really like the Zenith! Very elaborate cabinet, it must have set someone back a bundle in it's day!

Eric

Charlie,

I have added your site to the links on mine.

Thanks, guys, for all of the thumbs up. I hope this Zenith turns out well in the end, and I feel that with everyone's advice, pointers, and moral support, it will.

As Eric mentioned, this set cost someone some serious coin back in '62. I was kinda curious of whether or not this set had an original price tag reaching $1000.00? Correct me if I am wrong, but seems the average color set in the early 60's was about 600 dollars. Throw in the fancy cabinet, remote, and HI-FI sound, and I'm sure that price tag could really get up there. The only option not included on this set is a UHF tuner, and if I am not mistaken, it actually was not offered on this chassis. None of the paper work i have here mentions a UHF tuner. Does anyone happen to know how much extra was the Space Command feature for these sets? I was speculating that the SC would add at least a hundred bucks by itself.

As far as the little website I put together, it's not fancy looking by any means, but it is someplace where I can gather my goodies so share with others. Actually, it was Carmine's site that made me look into this 50megs.com. He had mentioned in his site that it was a freebie, and had plenty enough for what he needed. Of course, "free" is always a plus. So thanks to Carmine for bringing my attention to a site that I could work with (especially considering that i am in no way HTML oriented). Yeah, you might have to deal with the annoying pop-up ads, but now days it seems that many browsers have pop-up controls that take keep people from having to be bothered with pop-ups.

Charlie, is it actually a 9-pin socket? 6JE6 is 9-pin; 6JS6 is 12-pin.

The set that I have that is like this (Space Command) uses the 6HF5 output tube. It is the slightly later model that uses silicon diode rectifiers. This appears to be a rare tube as I have not seen it used on other sets.

Your set appears to be among the very early models as it uses rectifier tubes rather than silicon diodes.

Chad,
Yes you are right... that is a 9 pin, not 12. Geez I can't even coun't without using fingers! :withstpd:

Yes, as Jack mentioned, this was Zenith's first regular production color set from 62 (other than their earlier prototypes). It was the only one using LV rectifier tubes... two 3DG4's.

Hey Charlie:

That second Zenith looks exactly like the one I got from Doug! Mine's got the 24MC32 chassis, though.

Hope you get yours working as well as mine does. It's a real treat watching vintage TV on a roundie. And the sound kicks some serious butt! These new black plastic sets just can't compare.

Bob

Re: The other set...
 

Originally posted by Charlie
Here is the 2nd set of the two. This one uses the 25MC33 chassis. Looking inside it showed that this set was in the home of a HEAVY smoker! :smoke: Wow it is covered in there with major dirt and tar/nicotine!


I'd clean that chassis thoroughly before powering it up. If it's covered with cigarette tar and nicotine, not to mention ordinary dirt and dust, it could create a fire hazard. Frankly, I'm amazed it didn't catch fire long before you got it, as filthy as you say the chassis is. :eek:

Bob, are you sure about that? The 24MC32 only has one speaker, a small oval unit. Unless you are referring to the 24MC32's audio channel, are running the sound output through a stereo outfit, or have retrofitted the set with a larger speaker, I don't quite follow you. I once had a Zenith 23" console with a single-ended 6BN6-6BQ5 audio system, tone control and a large speaker; this sounded so good I eventually patched an FM tuner into the audio (across the volume control, with blocking capacitors of course).

The prize for the set with the absolute largest loudspeaker I ever saw, however, goes to a GE console I once saw here on AK which had an oval speaker some 12 inches in diameter; the magnet must have weighed five pounds as well. :eek: Those sets must have had incredible bass response--enough to blow the roof off a house with the volume control not even at the halfway mark, and audio plenty good enough to listen to music or to feed an FM tuner's audio output through.

As to the sound quality of today's sets, you are right on the mark. Today's black plastic cube sets, all of which are manufactured offshore these days even though they may still bear American brand names such as GE and RCA (I understand Goldstar is not using the Zenith brand or logos on its televisions any longer), do not sound anywhere nearly as good, with their cheap speakers (the so-called "stereo" televisions are even worse in this regard; hardly worthy, IMO, of the extra circuitry required for MTS stereo) and low-fo audio channels, as the older sets with near-hifi audio and large speakers (in consoles; even the cheaper portables from the '60s and '70s, as well as today's 5" cheapies with AM/FM radio, had cheap transistor radio speakers, with sound channels to match).

There sure was a long dry spell in the tv business when sound was crap. I have a 25MC33 (have never put up a photo of it) and the sound is superb. It has a minor defect in the picture, when I finish with it the sound & picture should be a great match.

The 25MC33 and earlier chassis use the 6BQ5 for sound. Seems everyone is usually pleased with the audio using this tube.

IIRC, the comments on sound coming from the later chassis using the 6Z10 output tube are not as good. In fact, seems I remember people saying it flat out sucked with the 6Z10.

Guess they should have stuck to the 6BQ5 tube

I don't know where you guys heard that the lightning-bolt Z wasn't being used anymore, it's on the latest plasma flat screens and DVD players. Take a look at their equipment sometime, it's actually pretty neat. While I realize these things aren't being built in Chicago anymore, they sure boast like it is. "Zenith...the leader in high-definition television" And now, "Digitize the Experience"

http://www.zenith.com

LG-Zenith
 

Cory,

I logged on to the Zenith site and noticed the site copyright dates are 2001-2002. Also many of the pages could no longer be brought up. And the Zenith dealer locater was also not working. Is the Zenith name quietly going away?:dunno:

Don't know, but the last time I watched CBS, the HDTV graphic that usually plugs Zenith at the beginning of an HD show plugged LG instead. Can't be a good sign...

---

I hate to rain on everybodys parade...
 

But LG is......... GOLDSTAR!!!

Re: I hate to rain on everybodys parade...
 

FWIW I went to Circuit City to see the Zenith 27" HDTV. I know this isn't the 1959 REAL Zenith I have sitting in my living, nor is it my mom's 1988 Space Command 19".

I must tell you it does have a clear, flat picture. Colors were accurate and sound was pretty decent. The Panasonic and Sumsung next to it had some kind of color or detail problems. It has loads of inputs, DVI, component, composite, front mounted inputs for a camera or a game system. It doesn't look like a "black box" TV. It's silver with dark grey around the screen. It is a pretty TV and almost earns the right to have a "Z" on the front.

Whenever my Sanyo goes out, I'll get the new Zenith. That will be my choice.

What about the CRT's on the modern Zeniths? If or When did the shorted CRT syndrome that happened in the early-mid 90's end?

LG stands for "Lucky Goldstar" I think the Zenith name is going to be phased out soon, now that parent company LG has placed some distance between itself and crapola "goldstar" branded products, by virtue of using the Zenith name for a few years. I agree with the earlier post, put the name out of it's misery!

Notice that LG is also selling China-made refrigerators and other large appliances. For those of you who lament the disappearance of the US electronics industry, you can at least take a stand against our losing large appliance manufacturing too. I'm pretty sure that Whirlpool stuff is still made in Benton Harbor, MI... Not by slave laborers in communist China. Whirlpool is good quality stuff too, always has been. Keep that in mind next time your milk goes sour and you go fridge shopping.

I guess the slavelabor wage advantage is now so great that it even outweighs the cost of shipping a 300lb. fridge 10,000 miles!

LG is one of the few remaining manufacturers of air conditioner and refrigerator compressors left. Actually, LG air conditioners are quite good.

---