showing off my TV
 

I have 2 TVs.

This one was my great grandparents, and it is unrestored.

Can you date this? It has a service tag of 1960 from 2 or 3 tubes replaced.

I still have yet to see one like this silvertone.

I cant upload the pic. crap.

The jpg is 600kb, any ideas?

Welcome to AK!

The picture is too large I think, you need to shrink it down a bit. I don't know the size limit but less than 100k is probably OK.

If you need some help with that E-mail it to me and I can fix it with Photoshop and send it back to you.

Eric

i dont have a program that does that.

i got it. i forgot my camera has a built in editor

That's a unique looking set. I like the way the channel selector is in the middle. Is that one the Silvertone? Look on the back of the set and see if you can find a model number. That would help us date it.

Looks like it could use a filter cap in the verticle circuits.

On your camera, you should be able to set it to 640 x 480 before taking the picture.

You said you have 2 sets... what is the other one?

I found a Silvertone like that at the dump one night. It cleaned up nicely and I nearly got it working one winter. The chassis has to be the vbest design ever. The whole thing is flat and is very light and easily removable. The only downfall is the series circuitry and selenium rectifiers. They must have a lot of vertical trouble. I see yours has it and mine did to. Mine had no vertical sweep. I forget what I did but I got it working. My rectifiers were heating up last I remember. It would have been an easy re cap. I dont know why I lost interest but I did and gave it away to a collector in a different income bracket than myself. More income= more space. I do this from time to time to make space for newer projects. Sometimes like now I regret it but at least the stuff I cull goes to a good home and stays in the collector circle. The set is from 56 or 57 I believe. I do remember an ion trap on the crt which tells me it couldnt be much newer than that.

yea, its the same thing with mine.

If i first turn mine on, it works perfect.

After it runs for a little bit, the picture will slowly shrink, it looks like a scrunched 16:9 when it happens.

If i keep a boxfan blowing on the chassis, it stays full raster.

Here is my other one:

http://linux.hamilton-city.k12.oh.us...storation.html

I wrote a whole website on my other one.


(there is an AVI of this set working, PS this is the one with the bad yoke, you can see)

im sad to say this, but on my silvertone, I have to use a CRT brightener to obtain a good picture.

Then again, it may have alot to do with the original caps too.

My emerson has NO diodes whatsoever.

this emerson, as you noticed was completely destroyed in shipping.

I found a 16rp4 with ion trap untested for 15 bux/

the original tube shattered, thus clipping the leads on the yoke. they are still clipped/cut, and no way to fix it. (hence wavy picture).

I took a gamble on the tube, but hey, it worked!

there is a sticker in the back of my silvertone, it still has all of its original stickers, Hell, i still have the reciept from it where my great grandma gave it to me!

she paied about 2 grand for it new, in chicago.

just came out, but if she would have waited, another model better than that prolly surfaced and the prices prolly dropped considerably.

BTW they are both still alive and well. one is 90 the other is 86.

Im 18 BTW. I restored that emerson when i was 16.

Does the Silvertone use a 21" CRT? Do you have a Sam's Photofact for it?

i dont have a photofact, altho i wish i did. I have to resore the vert circuitry,

I forgot to mention there is a sticker on the back that said "All new aluminized picture tube".

Another thing i forgot to mention, Why does the HV arc from the metal brace holding the tube to cabinet, to the aquadag?

it arcs like crazy, and sometimes runs a continuos blue flow of electricity up and down that brace to the tube.

If i duck tape that brace up, it will calm down.

I cant see the sticker on the tube. (no flashlight).

But, if it is a 21" its the same size of todays 27" tubes.

For the arcing, there should be some kind of grounding device... usually a spring or metal strap traveling across the funnel of the tube... that would keep the aquadag grounded. If the ground is not there, you might get juice jumping around in there. :eek:

If you can get a model number off the chassis, I can see if I have the sams for it. Sears usually had a number stamped somewhere on the chassis. They're numbers really never followed a pattern. Sometimes they were 3 digits, sometimes they were 8 digits. IIRC, they did use a metal tag that was usually rivetted to the chassis, but that might only have a serial number.

the aquadag is grounded.


both the dag, and that brace is grounded.


hmmmmm. and that brace arcs only to one side of the dag. Guess where that side is, the anode lead.


528.38503

Is the surface clean? If there's a lot of dust on there, it could conduct the HV.

That number brings up Sams 329-13. Will go check my files.

i cleaned teh dust off.

You're in luck kiddo! I have duplicates of this particular Sams, so I'll just send you one of these. PM me with your address and I'll get it out to you.

Looks like your sets uses either a 24YP4 or a 21ATP4. Was also noticing that you have those selenium rectifiers, but your set uses a dedicated 6 volt filament transformer to give you parallel heaters.

If all is clean and properly grounded, you shouldn't get that. There are only 2 other things I can think of...

1. Examine the dag coating where the grounding strap or spring makes contact with the dag. The coating could be worn off at that contact point. If it is possible to re-posistion the spring or strap across the dag... even moving it just a half inch one way or another... that may help. If a spring it used, sometimes they get rusty. That may also cause a poor ground to the dag coating.

2. The route you HV anode lead takes from the cage to the box... does it lay against the dag coating somewhere before it gets to its connection? This one is somewhat of a long-shot, but wouldn't hurt to check. If they anode wire is up against the coating somewhere AND the anode insulation is breaking down where it touches the dag, this could be causing a problem. Seems this would be less likely, but we've all seen stranger things. OR, since you mention it only being on that one side near the anode lead, perhaps that is where the arcing is actually coming from.

Just some thoughts there... hope they help some.

Date
 

The date on this Sams is September 1956, so your set was probably from 1955 or early 56.

Are you sure that the crt mounting brackets have a firm connection to the chassis? You can try taping some aluminum foil to the aquadag and running a wire from the foil to the chassis to improve the grounding.

Hey mbates14, Great sets, AND I checked out your site on the restoration of the other one. I'm just amazed when younger people are interested in this vintage stuff now. My Uncle had a repair/ sales shop and I LOVED tinkering around with the older sets. I was about 13 when I fixed my first one! (I'm 38 now) I could diagnose the problems pretty good, but if it was beyond anything simple (tubes and such) my Uncle worked on it. I wish I had paid more attention back then and learned how to solder worth a crap, because when I get a vintage set now, they pretty much have to be working. I still like the old tube stuff, and am amazed when you younger guys take interest as well. I have a few friends younger than me (but older than you) that are amazed when I fire up some of the old sets with the backs off as they had never even seen a tube! Anyway.... just wanted to say "hey" and to keep having fun on your restorations. James

anything tube always did fascinate me.

I dunno why, maybe the warm glow and sound made somethign tick in my brain.

Im not one of those teenagers that goes illegally and get drunk, and smoke, and go and doo all the stupid shit that teens do.

Im quite the opposite.

I love electronics, And i engineere amplifiers, solid state ones that is.

I built tube amplifiers, but only based on schematics.

The dag is grounded, and the wires arnt deteriorating.

its wierd.

I noticed too, that in the dark where the anode cap is, you can see blue streams of electricity down inside the glass comming off the anode connection. and a little bit to the right, there is the metal brace it arcs to teh dag.

I think the dag is deteriorating, and it looks like it is.

I have no idea how or what to recoat it.

BTW

I restored my principals 1947 Zenith turntable radio

It works like a charm!

i recapped it, but the main reason for the failure was the AF plate load resistor, in other words, the resistor that connected the AF/driver tube to the B+ source was nearly opened.

But, it doesnt hurt to recap.

also, its modern, but VFD displays interest me too.

I think because its also a tube, and they produce cool text and grafix.


I have a Noritake custom graphic VFD GU128x32-311

but, I have NO IDEA how to program C++ or for that matter, i dont know how to create drivers to interface this to the PC.

outta luck there, but I do know how to code PHP, mysql, and some other languages.

I know this is kinda unrelated.

Just thunked of something, don't use duct tape as it's probably conductive.......they usually have some aluminum and other powdered metal in the silver part.

I've seen wacky ass hot rodders paint their engine silver and proceed to get it all over the spark plug wires----then they'd bring it to me to finger out why it runs so bad.

Ummm, does conductive paint and spark plug wires sound like a good combo to you? Spark scatter everywhere! A new set of wires and all was good again.

Anthony

I would try cleaning the area around the anode connector with a little denatured alcohol (discharge it first!) even thought it looks clean now it might have some small carbon tracks.


Eric

ill say one thing, they dont make them like they used to.

Back in those days, they had some interesting designes i wish they still had today.

Now, they are just plain looking japanese jucnk.

in todays circuitry, one little component can cause a complete expensive catastrophe.

tubes, i bet my set with the strong tubes i have in there now, and the caps that are rated lifetime, I bet that set will last another 50 years.

try to get that kinda time out of solid state garbage of today.

it already lasted 50 years, lets last another round of 50 years.

And my silvertone, it is unrestored and it still works! take that and shove it up japan's ass. LOL:D

my 2 cents

Not to defend the new stuff but in many ways the older sets were just as prone or in some cases even more prone to catastrophic cascade failures as they didn't have anywhere near the integral protection.

Didn't I read somewhere a slew of suggested mandatory fuses on certain vintage sets for this very reason? A shorted tube can take out the chassis and vice versa.

Anthony

shorted tube?

tubes can short? hell, i didnt know that.

I havent had it happen.

Anyway, for the most part that type of catastrophy is fixable, because most of the parts can be testes.

Try that on todays electronics, you cant test an IC.

My set isnt fused anywhere except for the damper area, that has a special fuse.


Should i fuse it? Where should I put fuses?

I've been lucky... only had one tube short on me. Was a 35z5 rectifier in a late 40s radio. WOW it really got my attention when that thing shorted!

Mike, you can develop a heater to cathode short, which would let your AC filament current get into your B+.

For your Silvertone, you could probably do good with a 2 or 2.5 amp fuse after the power switch.

Your schematic just went to the mail man. It's on its way.

I recieved the schematic today, and man do I really appriciate it!

I notice that the cabnet is not the same? hmm.

anyway, its a 24yp4, it has to be.

I measured it with tape measure, it appears to be about 25 inches.

Anyway, I thought they were going to be like a copy run off a copy machine like justradios.com does.

no, its the original folder/copy from that day! THANKS dude.

I think it might have something to do with the rectifiers, because my vertical will shrink the longer it runs. if i blow a fan on the bottom of chassis, the picture will be returned to normal.

Anyway, the aquadag is comming off, because everytime i rub my finger on the dag, it is black.

How do i recoat a CRT? one of my friends said it was a magical wonder to recoat those.

gimme some ideas. Thanks!

When I find that I have multiples of the same schematic, I just send out the extra copy instead of scanning a copy.

The photo on the front is different from yours because they used the same chassis in many different cabinet styles.

If your blow on any parts to cool them down and it makes a difference on the picture, that's a good sign the part needs changing.

I returned today from Dallas... was picking up my 2nd 21FBP22 that they previously tried rebuilding, but had to do it again because they found the gun to have a short. I had inquired about the dag paint, and he told me next time I come up to bring a milk jug and he'd fill it up for me. They buy it in drums I think. He was not sure where to get it in smaller quantities. Now days, they use a water-based paint (used to use laquer years ago). I'm not sure where to buy it, but they mentioned trying a paint shop... said that the paint is pretty simple stuff.

Anyone else got any ideas on where to get the paint?

Attn: Charlie
 

Charlie, check the early color forum, I posted a link to two 21" tubes, possibly rebuildable duds, and they are in Texas!

MIKE: The Aquadag can be recoated using G-C Electronics part# 10-4807 conductive paint. It comes in a 12-ounce spray can available for about $27 through ACK Radio in Georgia and marketed as an EMI/RFI shielding product. Before recoating, you'll need to remove the tube from the cabinet, remove the yoke from it, clean the tube surfaces with denatured alcohol, and mask it. Discharge the dag capacitance before handling the tube. Use great care to not drop, strike or scratch the tube during any part of the handling of it. The glass construction and high vacuum make for a spectacular and dangerous implosion if the glass envelope breaks since the tube surfaces are actually supporting tremendous atmospheric pressure. The faceplate alone is under more than two tons of pressure from the atmosphere. Set up a "paint booth" in a garage by obtaining an old large-appliance box and cutting it to leave the bottom and three full sides which will define an area where you can leave the tube unattended overnight to dry without it being damaged. The booth will also stop any overspray from getting on floors, walls, etc. Mask the faceplate of the tube with a sheet of plastic and tape the plastic to the tube with a continuous strip of tape that lines up exactly with the edge of the original dag border around the funnel-to-faceplate seal. Set the tube face-down on a thick, soft surface like an old blanket folded into about a 30" x 22" rectangle. Next, wrap plastic around the tube neck all the way up and secure the wrap with electrical tape. Run tape around where the original dag ends to mask exactly along the original border adjacent to the neck. You'll also see a big, circular void in the dag coating at least 4" in diameter (usually close to 6" on those 24" tubes) around the anode connector. Thoroughly clean the glass (again) around the anode connector with denatured alcohol to remove all the carbon trails. Inspect this area with a magnifier if necessary. This will be the most critical region of the tube surface since it's directly adjacent to the anode connector and about 15kV. Mask this circular area with electrical tape, again taking care to follow the original factory border. The clearances are critical and usually specified in the original design drawings of the tube with a tolerance (+/-1/8" to +/-1/4" typically). Verify an ambient temperature between 60-80 degrees Fahrenheit as that's the optimum range for application of the paint. Shake the dag spray for at least a full minute to make sure it's thoroughly mixed. Spray from a distance of 8" to 12" from the glass and keep the spray moving to form a nice, uniform, thin coat. Turn the tube around by rotating the blanket it's resting on if you're having trouble getting to the opposite side of the tube. Once you've got a nice, even first coat, let that dry for 1/2 hour to 1 hour. Spray another thin, uniform coat and let dry. Use a third coat if desired. Turn the "booth" around with the open side against a wall and mark the box "CAUTION, KEEP AWAY", "WET PAINT", etc. Let dry overnight. Again, handle the tube with great care. The structure is very strong to support all that pressure, but tripping over a crack in a driveway while carrying it and dropping the tube will almost certainly shatter it. In my "young and crazy" years, we took "dud" picture tubes into a large, open field on the few extra acres of land my grandparents owned behind the family business where we did our target practice and shot these 12" to 24" tubes with high-powered rifles and shotguns from about 50 yards away. The noise was about equivalent to 1/4 to 1/2 stick of dynamite. It wasn't unusual for the implosion of a 21" tube to hurl palm-sized chunks of glass 20-30 yards from "ground zero" and displace loose dirt leaving a "crater" under the spot where the tube was sitting. Afterward, we vacuumed the area with a miniature version of a street sweeper that was normally used to sweep 6 large driveways and a parking lot on the front few acres. Basically, it was a cross between a lawn tractor and a vacuum cleaner. As I remember, there was quite a mess to be cleaned up after an afternoon of tube-shooting. I've never seen a tube "blow" in a repair shop, but I heard about an incident when a not-too-sharp tech made the mistake of cutting the tension band off of a 25" tube to remove its mounting lugs. Apparently, he heard the glass start to crack just in time to get safely out of the room before it "blew" and found chunks of glass embedded in the walls after the blast. From the oldtimers' telling of that story, it seemed amazing that no one was seriously hurt or killed.

I just re-dagged a 10BP4 for a customer who bought it from an eBay seller who had wrapped it in adhesive-backed bubble wrap which was placed with adhesive directly against the dag. I recommend wrapping CRT's for shipment using an inner layer of non-adhesive bubble wrap and then it's ok to use the adhesive-backed stuff as outer wrap so it won't touch the dag.

JSTOUT: I'm also 38. My son, age 14, will be recapping his first tube radio soon. Tim has been playing guitar for a few years and has a strong preference for tube tone. He's been helping in the shop, mostly on lift-and-carry tasks that require two people like unboxing 630TS cabinet/chassis assemblies to get them ready for "pulling" the chassis for recapping.

I've been "technically curious" since childhood. I've traced everything back to the explosion of the plug of a defective box fan in my hand at age three. Tim's experience is similar, having turned on a large guitar amp while using it to support himself as he was learning to walk and then run screaming out of the room when bumping it caused the reverb springs to bang together and the amp to emit a loud bang and ear-splitting howl. To this day, he remembers that incident.

How far will a can of that paint go? (how many crt's?) I have 3 or 4 in need of recoating. I work with all manner of automotive paints every day but know of nothing that fits this description; I've thought about trying to mix together some charcoal dust with paint to make a brush-on coating. 3M makes a powder we use which consists of limestone, activated charcoal & carbon black-I wonder, if mixed with a binder of some sort, if this would be workable?

I'm not sure at this point about what its coverage is, but my best guess is that its square-inch coverage would be consistent with a similarly-szed can of ordinary spray paint. Since the surface area of the dag coating on a 1940's tube such as 10BP4 and that of larger 1960's tubes like 24MP4 are widely different, I would not be able to predict results that closely. A rough approximation of the coverage of a can of paint less a reasonable estimate of overspray divided by a rough approximation of the dag surface area of an average CRT divided by two coats would be the setup for the calculation.

N= number of tubes
A = total coverage (square inches)
L = overspray loss (percent)
T = average CRT dag surface area (square inches)

N = A*(100%-L)/2T

A can of spray dag should do at least 6 medium size tubes.
The story about the tech cutting the shrink band to remove the ears to make the tube fit a different mount is TRUE, I herd it happen, sounded like a shotgun blast, he had console on it's face and was lowering tube into it, tapped the tube on the floor when it was fully in - BOOM - was a miricle that the did not get cut as he was leaning over the cabinet when it blew. This was done by at part time used TV shop at a local inside flea market, he was only open on weekends. Nick named "Brand X" he closed up shop the next week, learned his lesson the hard way.

Trying to invision The Kubota Dirt Devil :D

That makes TWO such incidents, as the one I heard about had happened in a local shop and the walls still had the gouges where the glass had dug in. I worked there for about a year between college and my first contract engineering job.

Our local newspaper had a story in News Briefs headlined "Texas Woman Killed By Exploding Television" during the first week of July, 1986. The story, as I remember it, was that a violent domestic incident between a husband and wife involved the throwing of a television set. Later, the wife's sister came over to help her clean up the mess. She picked the TV up off the floor and BOOM! She died about an hour later at an area hospital of blood loss from massive cuts to the face and neck.

More precisely, it looked something like an oversized golf cart with a vertical-axis rotating brush on each side and a wide horizontal-axis brush underneath. The vacuum system caught whatever the brooms kicked up and deposited the debris in a big black plastic container at the rear of the machine. The controls included a steering wheel, throttle and brake pedals, FWD-N-REV automatic transaxle selector lever and electric start. There were also levers labeled BROOM CLUTCH and VAC CLUTCH. I vaguely remember its engine being 2-cylinder air-cooled 4-stroke. Based on my limited small-engine experience, it was probably 16-20 HP ... probably an 18 HP Wisconsin or similar. Usually, it was parked in a pole building behind my uncle's place next door. It also came in handy back behind Uncle Mike's picnic pavilion and swimming pool around the 4th of July ... lots of spent fireworks shells to sweep up after the annual bash. I guess the term "upper middle-class rednecks" sort of fits my background. Most everyone either worked at or was retired from some sort of manufacturing job or owned a small business. Back in the 70's, we had access to some pretty impressive fireworks, too, thanks to a few independent "owner/operator" truck drivers among us who drove over-the-road across the "lower 48" states. The "half sticks" they'd bring back from a run would blow a 2- to 3-foot diameter crater in loose dirt.

here is the problem charlie.

Which part. Thats the question.

I would start to freeze spray the seleniums, and the resistors, BUT I dont have any local suppliers.