Zenith CC II 19JC55Z Circuit Breaker tripping
 

First off I'd like to say hello to everyone here. This is my first post.

I got this set from my sis-in-law a year ago. She got it back in '77. Over the past year I have been using it with my RCA VDT-350 VHS and RCA SJT-200 CED player. For most of that time the set ran pretty will with the occasional drop in brightness and it could have used a touch up on the convergence. That is, until the other day. Out of the blue while watching The Love Boat, the screen went blank and the circuit breaker blew. I reset the breaker and the channel number lit up for about 5 seconds and the breaker tripped again.

Now I hope you'll hang in with me here as all I currently know about fixing TVs I've learned over the past two days from the unit's service manual and searcing the web.

Upon inspection I noticed that the video ouput board on the neck of the crt was smoking from the center as the breaker tripped. I removed the board and opened the white ring that contains the spart gap and it was pretty black and had a small opening in it from arching. From what I've been able to figure out, that gap has something to do with the HV for focus? I've inspected the tripler and find nothing out of the ordinary, but it's hard to know since the breaker only gives me about 5 seconds before tripping. During that time I hear nothing. I only see and smell smoke from the spark gap.

Any help from this point forward would be greatly appreciated. How can I go about finding the bad component? So far I've come up with either a bad tripler or CRT (both of which I can purchase replacments for from Sears). The CRT is 19VGZP22 and $128. The tripler is 977-43 and $60.99. I don't know if these prices are high, but they are Zenith parts.

If you need any other information to help, please let me know and I'll do my best to get it to you.

Thank you!

Robert

I seem to remember the Tripler shorting and putting the full 25 KV on the focus lead; thus, burning up the spark gap. You will probably need a new tripler as well as a new CRT socket. One thing you might try is unsoldering the input lead from the tripler. This is the lead coming from the flyback transformer to the tripler. You will have to cut away the RTV where the lead solders on the tripler and then unsolder the lead from the tripler. Use extreme caution when doing this. Now, make sure the lead is away from the chassis and turn the set on. You should now have sound and the breaker should not trip. If it trips, you have problems elsewhere in the set. Power up the set as little as possible in it's current state because I've also seen shorted triplers burn up the flyback in the CC II's.

I wouldn't jump off into paying those prices for those parts without checking around first. Someone on here may have what you need for a better price. In fact, I'm shocked that Sears would have any parts for such an old set.

It would be nice if you had access to a CRT tester just to make sure the tube was OK before buying the other parts.

I should be able to handle desoldering the input lead on the tripler. For safety sake, will grounding the anode on the crt to DAG (did I get that right) remove all the HV down to the wire I'm about to mess with? If not, how would I go about doing so?

The lowest price I found for the tripler was $45 and was only able to find the CRT through Sears. Hmmm..... I inspected the CRT socket and the burn from the arcing didn't melt all the way through the cover. Is it a good idea to replace it anyway? If so, I'll start looking for one.

As for the CRT tester. I see a number of them on ebay, but I have no idea which model/make would work with my tube. That and most of them are untested.

Thanks for your help!

That tripler crosses to a ECG559 or NTE559. An NTE distributer should have it.

Yes, you can discharge the CRT by shorting the anode connection to the dag ground. You might want to attach a wire to an insulated screwdriver and connect the other end of the wire to dag ground. Holding the screwdriver by the handle, slip the end under the anode cup. You may hear a loud POP as the CRT discharges. Repeat this procedure several times to make sure all the charge is gone.

If you get a CRT tester, try to get a B&K model 467 or later model number. The older ones usually do not have the socket to test the inline tube like what is in your set and their rejuvenate function is not that great. A Sencore CR70 is another good choice. Like you said, the ones on epay are usually untested and you could easily wind up spending big $ on a piece of junk. Someone on this forum may have something they would sell you that would stand a much better chance of working than that crap on epay.

Maybe someone here on AK with a CRT tester is close to you (I'm in MS) and could check your tube. Another option is to find an older TV shop that could check your tube. Most of the newer shops would laugh in your face and tell you to s**tcan it if you brought that set to them. But, I'm here to tell you that your Zenith is far better than most any TV made today!

Here is a link to a tripler for $31.80

http://www.web-tronics.com/nte525tonte815.html

BTW, if you buy a B&K CRT tester, make sure is has adapter CR-20 with it. That is the socket to test your tube. I think B&K discontinued these older adapters in favor of a "universal" adapter that is nothing more than clip leads that are designed to clip on the pins of the CRT.

I checked ebay and the testers are lower model numbers than the one you gave. I'll keep check back.

I live in Hollywood, CA and there aren't many repair shops left. The couple I found and contacted wanted upwards of 75 diag fee.

I'm gonna tackle the disconnecting of the tripler in a bit (must finish my taxes first). I'll let you know if the set comes to life without the CB tripping. If it does, does this indicate the tripler only, or could the problem still be in the tube or the horizontal ouput board?

Thanks!

Okay, I removed the input wire to the trippler, secured it and tested the set. It worked without tripping the breaker and I had sound. So I guess the issue is in either the CRT or HV somewhere. Funny thing is that when I connected the wire and put the screwdriver under the cup, I hit the connection under the cup but there was no signs of any discarge. Is there usually a discharge?

Should I order a replacement tripler, or should I diag a little more first?

Thanks!

If it comes to life, it means the tripler is likely bad. I suspect you'll also need to replace the CRT socket since the spark gap is badly burned. Don't let that lead from the flyback come near the chassis. There is around 9 KV on this lead and it can arc to the chassis if it's too close. There is really no way of telling if the tube is bad without changing those other parts if you don't have a CRT tester. The only way I could see the tube being bad in this case would be if the tripler shorted and threw 25 KV onto the focus electrode inside the tube. The focus voltage is somewhere in the 8 KV area and the 2nd anode voltage is around 25 KV. Maybe the spark gap prevented the excess voltage from ruining the tube.

Is there a way to test the tripler? I tried to measure resistance in it, but got nothing on any of the leads. Figured there should be something to measure in the unit.

I'm going to order a replacement tripler today.

Thanks

I've never found a way to test a tripler other than unsoldering the input like I mentioned. Of course, there are the ones that the case is cracked or buldged and those would be bad.

I ordered the tripler and now need to wait for it to be delivered. I should get it by Friday, so I'll put the set aside and wait.

Thanks for all your help. I'll post back when I get the tripler.

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I'm going to install the new tripler and if that doesn't fix the problem, I'll assume the tube is bad and replace the set. I wanted to make an effort to save the set as it's been with my sis-in-law for over 30 years and she's been in my family for over 22 years. This set's been a good friend.

I think I'll make the rounds at the thrift stores and see if I can find a nice 25" console if this CRT is bad. I'll put this unit away until I find a replacement CRT.

Thanks!

If you can't find a new CRT socket, clean that spark gap the best you can. Rubbing alcohol usually works. Just make sure it's completely dry before powering up the set.

I'm curious to know if your set is a remote set, a one knob tuner, or the standard two knobs for VHF and UHF?

If you look for a '70's console; a Zenith Chromacolor or Chromacolor II would be a good choice. They use a delta gun tube and they almost never go bad. The triplers do fail; but, I've never seen one in the delta tube sets send the second anode voltage through the focus lead. They either arc and burn or they short, killing the HV and tripping the CB. The '70's RCA consoles are decent sets if the CRT is still good. I've seen way more bad RCA tubes than Zenith.

It's a single knob non-remote. For UHF you only have 5 available (right after channel 13). If you want another you have to retune a previous one. That actually reminds me to ask if anyone knows where I can get a knob. The original broke at the stem. It's about 1 1/4" across and chrome.

My digital camera is due back tomorrow. I'll post a pic of the set then.

I am hoping for another CC II in a cosole. I can then retire the cart as it's about to fall apart. I've fixed it a number of times, but it has wood for the shelves and it's pretty much bowed from the weight. With the console I can place the VCR and CED player on top.

So, you're saying that the plastic shaft that the silver knob slides on to broke off? That was very common with those channel selectors. I may have a knob in my junk; but, you would have to fabricate some sort of shaft.

The tuner shaft is okay. It's the hollow shaft on the knob that broke (or so I was told). The knob was then lost.

I hope to post some pics of the set today.

Sounds like a nice set...would like to see it also. As mentioned before, these late 70s Zeniths really were HQ sets and deserve repair

Well pics will have to wait 'til Friday when I have my own camera back. Darn Fuji camera my mom has uses the mini usb cable, but with one slight modification to the end the camera uses. I can't find the cable it came with and all the usb cables I have won't fit! Then to top it off, the camera uses and xD memory card and my reader doesn't support it! They should be shot for messing with a standard.

Okay, I just replaced the tipler and that fixed the blowing of the breaker. Now on to the next problem....

I turn the set on after the new tripler install and I get sound right away, but instead of the image (snow since there's no input signal) I get a loud POP sound. When this happened I shut it down and looked for smoke or the smell of something burning. There was none. I then turned off all lights and tried it again. This time I watched the neck of the tube. I noticed that there was a blue glow between the yoke and rings. As it got brighter it would eventually arc to the end of the tube. When it arced, the blue glow would go back to a dim glow and build up again til it arced. The only thing you could see on the front of the tube was a flash each time it arced.

Okay, any suggestions? Is the tube toast? Did I miss or mess up something?

Thanks!

When the old tripler went, it probably took something with it.

I don't know if the tube is shot, but you should probably keep it unplugged until someone comes along with a more precise answer.

I do remember a friend of mine having that problem. He changed the CRT socket module, IIRC, to solve the problem.

By "CRT socket module" do you mean the video output board? The one that the socket is soldered to and sitting on the neck of the CRT? If so, how easy/hard are these to locate?

Thanks

Yep, thats the crt module. Post the board number (9-xxx) and maybe someone has one as a spare... I have a few I'll let you know.

Hope this is the correct number. It's located on the bottom in big letters, so it has to be it.

9-121-01C

...

Sorry, I don;t have that module. Most of the Zeniths I've scrapped were 80s sets... good luck in fixing yours

So should I solder a wire for each pin on the CRT to a single wire, connect each wire to a pin on the CRT and the single end to a ground point and then fire up the set to see if the CRT still arcs?

How about just trying to replace the CRT socket instead of the entire board? Is it something I could locate by part number? I think the spark gap is toast as I checked resistance from the HV focus pin to the ground pin that connects to the other end of the spark gap and the DMM reacted and showed 00. Now isn't there supposed to be no path because of the gap and since the meter reacted, there must be some kind of connection when there shouldn't be?

Thanks!

You should be able to find that board-there seem to be a lot of Zenith modules floating around. Hopefully some others who have them will chime in. Unfortunately (well, fortunately for me!) I haven't run into this particular problem so can't offer much advice. One thing that comes to mind, and maybe this set is too new for this to be an issue, but CCII's used a 4-leg capacitor in the HV regulation circuit. The first version, which was white in color, was notorious for failures which caused arcing at the yoke/crt neck. The 4-leg cap should be an orange drop, either from the factory or because somebody replaced it under a recall campaign. Worth checking if you haven't already.

There's a big orange cap at the bottom of the HV board. I remember seeing it, but will have to take a look to see if it has more than two legs on it.

Finally got the pics of my set off that darn Fuji camera. I'm also attaching one of my LCD TV. It's bigger and the image is sharper in HD, but it sure can't give me the black levels of this old CC II.

000

I found a Sams Photofact on a 19KC52 chassis that uses the same 9-121-01D video output / CRT socket module that your set uses. The CRT socket itself is Zenith part number 78-2227. Your type set with the inline CRT is not nearly as common as the delta gun CRT sets. The System 3 chassis came along right around the time your set was made; but, there were some "late" CCII sets made with the inline System 3 style CRT.

If the spark gap reads anything; it's bad.

As far as those 4-lead safety caps go; the bad ones were used on late "E" line (the first fold down chassis) and "F" line sets. The orange ones are OK. If you ever see a white one, don't do another thing until you replace it with the newer, orange drop version. Those white caps would blow open without warning and cause the HV to rise to the point that it would blow the neck off the CRT.

Wasn't gonna solder the wires to the CRT. What I meant was to solder one wire for each of the connections on the CRT to a single wire. Then I would end up with one wire branching out to a number of wires. I would then just tape one wire end to each of the connections on the CRT and the single end to ground. No soldering on the CRT. :no:

Well if anyone has access to a CRT socket, let me know. I'm willing to pay a fair price for it and postage. My brother's skills at soldering are much better than mine and he can replace the socket in no time. If that doesn't work, I'm gonna have to say good-bye to this long time friend and start searching for a replacement.

I'll be on the lookout for a socket or the whole module for you.

Cool. Could every keep an eye out for a knob as well? :D It's about 1 1/4" and sticks out of the hole on the door as seen in the pics.

Thanks!

I found a new 9-121-01D on ebay for $15 + shipping. I never done business with the seller; but, thought you'd like to know about it. The item number is: 380017472872

The socket on the 01D from ebay is different in that the focus and ground wires are part of the socket and not plug-in like on my 01C. Doubt that makes a difference, but I can't tell if it will fit on my board as the shape of it is also a bit different. I wonder if the 01D board will work on my CRT so I could use it as a direct replacement. Hmmm....

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