I think this would be a great set to preserve.
eBay:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6275133881&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Nice lookin set. Too far from me though.

Butler is just a hoot and a holler up the road. Anyone wants to bid on it, I could pick it up for you and hold it until next year's Early Television Convention.

--Dave Sica

So what is meant by 'color adaptable' on this set?

So what is meant by 'color adaptable' on this set?

The sync, video, and power connections required to operate a color wheel appeared on a socket at the rear of the chassis where you would plug in your color adaptor.

Won the Admiral for a few bucks. Back in '51 a family member bought a Sears table model that had that magic 'color' word next to a socket on the rear panel. Couldn't pass on this one. Thanks for the heads up.

Pete

That crt frame looks like the only one like it. I guess it works with the color wheel.
Does anybody have a factory made color wheel?

I don't altho I do have a Westinghouse table-top set with the same option. I have seen a CBS color wheel set in operation and the picture was FANTASTIC. So much better than one could imagine.

I was just gonna ask if anyone had ever seen a color wheel in operation.I would think it would be one of those gizmos that can be made to work in a lab, but not so well in the "real world".

A color wheel running on the CBS standard, such as this set was intended to adapt to, works very well, with "imperceptible" flicker--that is, most people's persistence of vision is such that the rate of 72 color fields per second making 24 complete color frames is too rapid to flicker. I can see the flicker in a CBS color picture. To my eyes, it's almost subliminal . . . but not quite. NTSC-to-field sequential color wheels from ca. 1956, like the Colortel, can work well and reliably, but they flicker like a motherf***er due to the low frame rate. Whereas an ordinary color receiver displays 30 complete color frames per second, with a color wheel displaying NTSC, the color signal has to be chopped up into 30 fields per second. 10 fps for any type of motion-picture is going to flicker like mad. If you don't mind that, then they work fine.

a man bought a beautiful handmade color wheel system and I think he spoke of using a 10" Tv with it. I wonder if he ever did it. There is a thread on it here somewhere.
Apparently there were never factory made color wheel systems sold to the public?

I was just gonna ask if anyone had ever seen a color wheel in operation.I would think it would be one of those gizmos that can be made to work in a lab, but not so well in the "real world".

About 10 years ago, I witnessed a home-brew color-wheel adapter demo at my local antique radio club meet. I think it was built from plans in a magazine. It consisted of a chassis in an open-back box, a motor and a color wheel, with a plunger on a cable / motor brake as a coarse sync adjustment. It was set up with the motor and tri-gel-wheel perched on top of a small RCA B&W (think it was a 721TS). The operator tuned in a channel with rabbit ears, cranked up the motor and started pushing the plunger until it was roughly in sync. Then he'd adjust a few controls on the extra chassis - which kept him fiddling as the sync was sorta drifty, but in a way like a motion-picture framing adjustment. Ironically, I recignized the project had been built on a sawed-down-to-fit CTC-11 chassis.

It was actually an exciting experience, and the color gamut was really not too shabby, just somehow different. I don't remember who he was, or if the eldely gentleman is still alive.

I have an Admiral that looks very similiar but with a plain bakelite front where this one is colored. Mine has a metal crt but this one looks like glass. I had never noticed anything about color on the back, now I'll have to go double check. I don't think I would have missed something like that, though! It is a good performer.

either reproduce or restore one of the kits originally designed for these 'color' ready '51 sets. Not the color wheel. Just the modification that was to allow b&w sets to receive CBS color broadcasts in b&w. Who knows. Ya gotta wonder if it was ever actually done back in '51 for other than engineering purposes.

I wonder if the builders knew they would never use the color wheel system but knew it would be a real cheap extra to sell the consumer at a high profit. If there was never a color wheel system available for the consumer I think that would support such a scenario.

I've heard first-hand stories about all the sales gimmicks used back in the day, and these "features" were well hyped. "Oh sure Mr. So and So, step up to this set here, in a year or two when color is popular you'll be glad you bought a color-ready set."

I've also heard stories that some folks thought their picture would suddenly be in living color with the addition of an external adapter plugged right in the back. Some sets didn't even have any connections to that rear jack. Others have a plug with a jumper that completes the B+ to the set.

Reminds me of the Phonevision jack on the back of one of my Zeniths:
http://www.chicagotelevision.com/pay.htm

see
http://www.earlytelevision.org/cbs_color_converter.html

and
http://www.earlytelevision.org/crosley_converter.html
plus much more on CBS color on the ETF site

A few years ago, there was a small thread talking about seeing color on black and white screens... just for a moment. I had remembered seeing a color star on a set from when I was a kid.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5388

Thanks to Dave Sica who picked up the Admiral and handed it to me today at the Sarnoff Library in Princeton. Sure enough, it has that magic 1951 'color' connector on the rear.

Questions: Did they use a dual CBS-color/NTSC flyback? Was the connector there to add a color wheel? Was it there to convert an NTSC b&w set to display CBS color in b&w?

Here's what I found in this page just added to my site.

http://home.att.net/~pldexnis/potpourri1/Fifty-one_Admiral.html

Pete:

I can not answer your questions about the color adaptor to your set but I attached a scan from an Admiral brochure explaining the addition of color to their line of 1951 (I believe) sets. I have a 51 motorola with a color socket but at least that one is hooked up on the inside! I think it has a connection to the video, vertical sync pulse and b+.

Steve

Oops, here's the scan.

Here's what I found in this page just added to my site.


Interesting reading... I bet your findings were a MAJOR disappointment!

Interesting reading... I bet your findings were a MAJOR disappointment!More amused than ticked I guess at finding the empty connector: hardware of the day actually seemed to support the historic record. And the lesson only cost fifteen bucks.


Interesting bit of copy, Steve. It first encouraged potential buyers NOT to delay a set purchase because 1951 Admiral TV converted to color gave you a "Bigger picture" would be "Lower Cost" was "...a revolutionary achievement by Admiral engineers", and had "Freedom from Obsolescence."

I found the last dozen or so words on the page to be the most interesting: Admiral copywriters referred to the CBS Color system throughout, until they added "...color can be added regardless of what system of telecasting is ultimately adopted."

Talk about CYA. Either CBS or NTSC color from an Admiral. It just depended on the electronics behind the spinning wheel.

Actually they were right. CBS had a companion-type adapter in the works. Colordapter and Col-R-Tel for NTSC color were a reality five years or so years later.

Update: SteveD just provided a nice ad showing my set stuffed in a console. It's been added to the bottom of the page.
http://home.att.net/~pldexnis/potpourri1/Fifty-one_Admiral.html

That's hillarious! I wonder if any Admirals or others had wires connected to the color receptacle? I guess there never was an Admiral CA100 to plug in the dummy plug?

I guess there never was an Admiral CA100 to plug in the dummy plug?

Out of curiousity, I looked up "CA100" on the Sams website... and it turned up nothing.

I'm at work on the ship right now, so I can't look in my old Sams index. If anyone has an old index, take a peek and see if it might be listed in there. Sometimes I've found old models listed in the paper index that aren't listed in the online index.

Perhaps the CA-100 was something that was "in the works" when the set came out, but never quite made it. Admiral might have decided to ditch the idea and concentrate more on an actual color receiver.

---

Pete look at it this way, you have something even more rare than a color compatible set, you've got an Admiral with the plastic control door still intact! :lmao:

Pete,

What is the model/chassis number for the Admiral? The SAMS might have some clues as to how to hook up the color adapter. The SAMS for my 1951 Stromburg-Carlson (chassis 119M5A) has the connections drawn up for a color wheel/adapter.

polaraman

Today that set could be converted to color very easily. You know the drill: Remove old chassis. Throw it out. Go to WalMart and buy some POS made in China with the same sized screen. Hack install it in the old cabinet. Hot melt glue the old knobs crudely to fake it. .... ... :no: :thumbsdn: :sigh: :tears:

Of course if you wanted this set to last, you'd restore the old chassis. It would last about ten times longer than the Chinese color TV chassis....

The model is 17K12 and there's an 'N' stamped near the model. Am not home so don't now know the chassis number.

Of course if you wanted this set to last, you'd restore the old chassis. It would last about ten times longer than the Chinese color TV chassis....55 years old and all it needed were a few adjustments and contact cleaner to get a decent picture. Beautiful copper chassis.

Anyone hear of this? The internal speaker was disconnected. A 'SPKR' outlet on the rear chassis was clearly used as it was still shiny. Maybe a table model TV that slips into a console?

More amused than ticked I guess at finding the empty connector: hardware of the day actually seemed to support the historic record. And the lesson only cost fifteen bucks.

Pete,

You have a genuine piece of history there: early analog vaporware!

--Dave

Pete:

I just looked in Wallace's Admiral book and it states in there that on very late production runs the wiring to the color sockets were omitted. Early runs supplied B+ and AC to the converter and a plug was needed to complete the B+ circuit if a color converter was not connected.

Steve

I just looked in Wallace's Admiral book and it states in there that on very late production runs the wiring to the color sockets were omitted. SteveWell I guess that's it then...

Built after it was clear CBS Color flopped.

Did Wallace perchance have data on the CA100?

The SAMS is 135-2. It shows the socket but not how to hook it up. It also says that the "N" has no service significance.

Do any of the connectors on the Colo-r-tel or CBS color wheel systems match the socket on the back of the Admiral?

SAMS does not list a CA100


polaraman

Pete:

Wallace's has no info on a CA100.

glad did not bid, wanted tv with adapter eventually. FCC hearings probaly made color wheel obsolete quickly. Does bidder have CBS wheel info? must be same or similiar to other CBS sets? A good project, albeit a very specialized one. If someone gets this whole thing going, pics please!!

The perceived color over B&W TV was an invention of James Butterfield. There is an article about it in the October, 1968, issue of Popular Electronics. I remember seeing
a B&W commercial with the 7 UP logo flashing in color at the end for several seconds.

I was working as a cameraman at a local TV station at the time and Engineering would warn the receptionist every time the spot was going to play because the phones would ring off the hook for 10 minutes from people calling to find out why they were seeing color on their B&W sets!
Cliff

The perceived color over B&W TV was an invention of James Butterfield. There is an article about it in the October, 1968, issue of Popular Electronics. I remember seeing
a B&W commercial with the 7 UP logo flashing in color at the end for several seconds.

I was working as a cameraman at a local TV station at the time and Engineering would warn the receptionist every time the spot was going to play because the phones would ring off the hook for 10 minutes from people calling to find out why they were seeing color on their B&W sets!
Cliff

How would that work? Im very intrigued right now. :thmbsp:

Keefla:

It is called subjective color. It is psychological phenomenon that is typically demonstrated by spinning a white disk with black concentric circles printed on it. When viewing the spinning disk one typically perceives various colors. It is not really understood how it works. One theory is that by triggering the cones in the retina at a certain rate it fools the brain into perceiving color.

Steve

Here is some information on Butterfield:

http://www.earlytelevision.org/butterfield.html

The color adapter that Admiral planned to build had to be similar to the one CBS made:

http://www.earlytelevision.org/cbs_color_converter.html

Take a look at the schematic to see how simple it was.

The 4 pins on the connector in the Admiral receiver were for vertical sync, video, B+ and ground. The vertical sync was used to drive a phase comparator that controlled the speed of the motor that drove the wheel; the video was used because an extra pulse was transmitted in the red fields, and this pulse was extracted to lock the wheel in the proper phase (otherwise it could lock on any of three phases. The CBS converter and John Folsom's RX-41 receiver -

http://www.earlytelevision.org/field_sequential_prototypes.html

- don't have this feature, and you have to manually lock it to the proper color phase)

Our Gray Research monitor does have the feature:

http://www.earlytelevision.org/gray_monitor.html

The other change that was required in the receiver was the horizontal scan rate, which had to be 29,160 Hz, and the vertical scan rate, which had to be 144 Hz for color. The 4 pin connector on the Admiral doesn't provide a way to do this, so it is a mystery to me how this would have worked.

Admiral published a brochure showing their converter

http://www.earlytelevision.org/cbs_color_ads.html#admiral

which does appear to change the scan rates, but it couldn't have used the 4 pin connector on their sets.

Subject Admiral Model 17K12, Chassis 14E76-2 has been called “early analog vaporware!” for a lack of hard-wiring to its color adapter connector. I've add my current thoughts regarding options for the future of this set to my site. For new stuff added to this link, scroll down to 'The next step...?':

http://home.att.net/~pldexnis/potpourri1/Fifty-one_Admiral.html

Comments solicited and gleefully accepted. :yes:

Here is the Popular Electronics article about Butterfield color:

http://www.earlytelevision.org/butterfield.html#pe

Because of the requirement to run at NTSC field rates, the Butterfield color produced the worst possible flicker rate - 5 Hz. The eye is most sensitive to luminance flicker at about 5 or 6 Hz. Fechner wheels I have seen seem to produce color well at higher rates where the flicker is not so bad, so using this technique with a modified TV system at higher rate might work well.

---

This Motorola has an octal socket on the back that may have been for a color adapter.
http://cgi.ebay.com/motorola-tube-TV-vintage-television_W0QQitemZ9733444732QQcategoryZ3284QQrdZ 1QQcmdZViewItem

Some sets should go straight into the dumpster however and this is one of them!

---

(1) My direction with the Admiral is to convert it to receive 1951 CBS Color broadcasts in monochrome. However the CA 100 color adapter it was originally to be used with was probably the Admiral equivalent of the CBS adapter Steve McVoy is now restoring. And so the set was probably never meant to be altered for b&w reception of CBS Color. Therefore, I ask, is there any historic value to such a conversion?

Sure why not. My justification for the effort is to mimic people who in 1951 would have converted their NTSC sets to receive CBS Color in b&w. Who knows if it was ever done? Why not do it now. Gernsback and others would have quickly published such stuff...

I suspect the set will need a new output transformer if, according to vintage documentation, a 'correct' conversion is to be made. Fortunately, specifications for the 2-tap transformer are included in the CBS documentation. Maybe one can be made. Also, waiting to see how Steve McVoy's modification to the fly in a 9T246 he's adapting to CBS Color turns out. Am following that work here:

http://www.earlytelevision.org/cbs_converter_restoration.html

(2) Also, there's a vintage Admiral tuner question maybe someone can answer. Fine tuning is a function of the position of that spiral cam on the tuning knob in the photo. There's a wire from the LO to the vicinity of the cam, but I don't see how the Xc is varied by that plastic cam. Clearly there is because it works. What am I missing? There doesn't appear to be anything printed on the other side of the cam.

The plastic cam is the dielectric in the capacitor formed by the wire and post coming from the LO. As the amount of plastic (or phenolic) in between the post and chassis ground varies, the amount of capacitance to ground varies. It only takes a handfull of picofarads to do the job.

Thanks John. No wonder it looked like all dielectric. Guess I haven’t been around long enough! :sigh:

BINGO! I have a complete 17K chassis and the color socket is fully wired. The socket had this really strange male socket in it. It was hell to get the darn thing out. I would be willing to donate the chassis minus the CRT to the cause. I need the CRT for another RCA project. I just got back from getting it. It was in my storage area in Georgia. I drove 700 miles today(round trip) and am beat. I will post more pictures tomorrow.


polaraman

Your chassis would be the better choice for this project. I have a good CRT.

700 miles! Sounds like our yearly sprint to the ETF convention.

I got this Hallicrafters Tv today. It is a color compatible set also. i can't get it off the truck at the moment. I will look later to see if the socket is wired.

polaraman

Polaraman,

I may be mistaken here. The photo looks to show a label that you may have peeled back to reveal the "color" label. If so what did the other label say. Also, do you know what year the Hallicrafters set was manufactured?

Thanks,
-Steve D.

Steve,

The other tag is the final inspection tag that is screwed on the chasis. I bent it back to get a good shot of the color tag. The color socket has a plug in it. I left it there as to not lose it. I can't wait to get it off the truck and get a good look. It will have to wait till next weekend. The Hallicrafters is model 21940 - SAMS 165 - 1951 or 1952.

polaraman

Polaraman,

Thanks for clearing that up. Appreciate the photo. It's amazing that the inspection tag also survived all these years.

-Steve D.

Amazing that Hallicrafters printed a 4-color label that almost no one would have seen. They must have been very enthused about the prospects of color TV to go to that expense.

This all prompted me to pull down my Admiral 17K22. It needed a new focus control installed anyway. Mine is stamped with the color adaptor information but lacks the socket; there is a piece of cardboard attached over the hole. Maybe this was after they gave up on the idea? It was built in '51 but I'd have to go look to see the exact date.

The Hallicrafters back is also labled right above the color socket. The hole to the right is from the electrical plug. The CRT is a metal and glass 21AP4. The RCA CRT warranty tag from 1-8-57 is still in the set. Would this had sufficient light to produce a good color picture from a color wheel?

I just pulled the SAMS 165-6. The SAMS does show how the color socket is wired/installed. There is also a switch to go from B/W to color. The control diagram shows it to be on the front of the set. I will have to look tomorrow. More pictures to follow!

bgadow, Post a picture of the cardboard covering the hole.

polaraman

polaraman, I don't have the camera with me but will post it this week when I get a chance.

The CRT is a metal and glass 21AP4. The RCA CRT warranty tag from 1-8-57 is still in the set. Would this had sufficient light to produce a good color picture from a color wheel?

SAMS does show how the color socket is wired/installed. There is also a switch to go from B/W to color. The control diagram shows it to be on the front of the set.
(1) Re: "...sufficient light...?" It seems a 21-in. tube would need the scanning area reduced for the accompanying boost in light and so a reasonably sized wheel could be used.

However, (2) "...a switch to go from B/W to color." the switch is a puzzle. Does it change the sweep width/height? Maybe the set has a dual-frequency flyback. That'd be a find. :banana:

Amazing that Hallicrafters printed a 4-color label that almost no one would have seen. They must have been very enthused about the prospects of color TV to go to that expense.

Pete,

I think the Hallicrafter's marketing dept.,and other manufacturers sticking color labels and adapter plugs on their sets, saw an opportunity to move a few more sets out the door. Just turning the set around, a salesman could show the potential buyer this flashy label and close the deal.The customer probably thought he'd be able to receive color the moment it became available. I'm sure the salesman didn't argue the point.

It still goes on today with HD or is that HD ready?

-Steve D.

Polaraman,

I do not have a copy of the Sams 165-6 for the Hallicrafters. I would like to know what electronic function the B&W/Color switch performs. Could someone post a scan of the Sams schematic page for that set?

Thanks!

The BW/Color switch (in the color position) basically disconnects the contast control from the video output circuit and routes the cathode of the video output to pin 5 of the color socket. It does nothing to the size of the picture.

Steve

Hi there Steve K. Thansk for the info on the color / B&W switch. There goes my hopes that the set used a dual-frequency flyback.

a lot of monitors today ARE HD ready, just need tuner & progamming. There must of been a lot of dissappointed people years ago when the factory color converter didn't materialize,-- especially if this feature was a sales point. A commmercial and egineering dead end for sure.


:sigh:

Here are pictures showing my Admiral which did not get the socket. Note that the build date stamped on mine is in Nov. 51.

Well, as the last CBS Color Television System broadcast was:

Oct. 20, 1951, 2:00 P.M. “Football” – North Carolina at Maryland (from College Park, Md.)

Admiral acted quickly to remove that Color Conversion Socket from its sets.

Ed Reitan

I think we have that sams folder...will try and look at it tomorrow.

Figured I'd post a pic of the date code, and while I am at it a pic of the set working. It had a bad doorknob cap; worked before but with the sound of arcing. For some reason there is this odd attraction to placing my hand on the metal crt bell while it is operating! I'm glad I have self control!

A little bit of carelessness is all it takes. Chassis plugged in on the bench, standing facing the tube while reaching across to the framing adjustment rod, arm brushes the CRT lip and ZAPP! Good thing I was wearing a sweatshirt.

Well, as the last CBS Color Television System broadcast was:

Oct. 20, 1951, 2:00 P.M. “Football” – North Carolina at Maryland (from College Park, Md.)

Admiral acted quickly to remove that Color Conversion Socket from its sets.

Ed Reitan

I bet that Admiral was glad that the CBS system bit the dust. That way they had an excuse if any customer ever called them on that color conversion: "Sorry sir, but that color conversion socket was based on the CBS system which is no longer used. Blame the Funny Cookie Corporation." :D