I remember seeing a run of unusual Zenith 19" B&W sets from the mid 80s that had CATV tuning, and direct access remote same as the SysIII. There was also a non-remote version that had direct-access CATV tuning with a 0-9 keyboard on the set. These would be the very last big B&W sets too, I think. RCA & Quasar also had a 19" B&W into the 80s, but theirs were nonremote and had a click tuner.

Has anybody seen one lately? Definitely no antique, but I delare it is RARE. Don't get me wrong; I don't want one. Just wondering if any are around.

Charles

I forget who it was, but one of our younger members (MaxM? Retro Hacker?) posted pics here of the one he found a while ago. I think his is a 13" with no remote, but it's the same basic idea.

I have one of the 12" or 13" digital tuning b/w Zenith sets...it has a manual on off volume control, no remote. I don't think it can do CATV tuning though, there is no switch for "cable/normal".

I worked at a Zenith dealer for a little while in those days. Yes, we had a whole row of portable B/W, and yes I think the big ones had electronic tuning. In fact, I think I remember unpacking a B/W *console* during the system 3 days.

John

I remember leafing through a brochure for some TV manufacturer (can't remember the brand) back in 1979 when my folks were mulling over their next TV purchase. If I recall correctly, two styles of black & white console were shown--both stamped "DISCONTINUED". I can think of two family aquaintances who bought their first color TV sets in this same approximate time frame. Aunt Serene had held out for many years, buying a number of successive black & white sets after her first early glimpse of "green faces" soured her on the whole concept of color TV. There were probably enough holdouts for that reason (and their more attractive price) to make black & white consoles marketable into the late 70s. My folks settled on a 19" Sony trinitron.

I can remember when the difference in price was enough to make the b/w set a more attractive option...my parents bought a b/w 13" Magnavox for the kitchen and it seemed like it was around 79.95 in 1987 whereas a color portable still would have been in the $250 range...now these days a 13" color set at Wal-mart can be bought for $59.95.

Now all someone need to do is find one of those last B/W consoles that were discontinued. If they made only limited or few, would be a very rare set.

:yes:

JCFitz just gave me some Zenith factory manuals for those 80s bw sets, including the digital tuned ones. I remember about 1984 +/- I had a tv in my room but it was this terrible late 60s GE with cataracts & terrible color & a broken UHF tuner. I went to the TV shop in town & I recall they had a 13" Zenith bw portable with a battery pack that was expensive; but also a 19" Zenith BW that was new but looked like it could have been out of the 60s. I think the price was something like $179 but Mr. Evey said he would take $129. I lobbied hard for my parents to buy this for me but instead I got a 12" Midland from Western Auto. That TV was around $79; a few years later I paid that same amount for a used Portacolor. Weird to see prices drop so much.

I don't have any of those later big screen or electronic tuning Zeniths, though I did see one of those 13" sets in a resale store a while back.
I also remember seeing a GE "Performance Television" Black and White set that I believe was from the late 70s or early 80s and had about a 19" screen. I didn't see an exact date, but it was Solid State, had a "click" UHF tuner, and an early 80s "look" to it. Maybe somebody out there knows when GE made this line of "Performace" sets, I have seen color ones too. This could have been one of their last large screen B&W sets.

The Performance line was in the late 70's and early 80's...I have one of the Portacolor-type solid state color 10" sets plus a 27" console with VIR. also have seen b/w sets plus 17" and 19" color sets...it seems just about every type of TV GE made came in a "performance" model.

The Performance line was in the late 70's and early 80's...I have one of the Portacolor-type solid state color 10" sets plus a 27" console with VIR. also have seen b/w sets plus 17" and 19" color sets...it seems just about every type of TV GE made came in a "performance" model.
Wonder what the difference is on the 10" versions between the Performance and Non Performance models.Mine says nothing about Performance series on it.Works great though.Doesn't have VIR or Autocolor.I don't even think it has AFT.Maybe only the Performance series had those features?

P.S.I'm jealous of that Wurlitzer 1100 jukebox in your new avatar,Chad.Is that yours or a customer's.

I've seen both the 19" and 12" versions of the Zenith digital-tuning B&W portables show up occasionally at thrift stores and such. They're not *real* common, but not super rare either. They have direct-access keypads, but I don't think any of them ever had remote control or cable-ready tuners.

About a month ago at a local "junk" store I saw a recently-made 12" B&W set that had (amazingly enough) on-screen digital tuning display, CATV tuning capability, on-screen menus (!), and A/V input jacks. Yes, it was a B&W set. Really! I even lugged it to a nearby outlet and plugged it in to verify the existence of the menus and everything. I've never seen one like *that* before. It did not have remote control capability, nor a closed-caption decoder, but otherwise looked a lot like a typical modern 13" color set, and the cabinet was made of transparent plastic. I don't remember the brand name (it was some no-name brand as I recall), but I think the sticker on the back indicated it was made in the year 2000. Weird!

Speaking of "new" B&W TVs, has anyone noticed that many of those cheap little 5" portables nowadays have resumed having UHF tuners that have coverage up to channel 83? Seemed like in the late 1980's, all of the TV manufacturers reduced the coverage of their UHF tuners to only receive channels 14 through 69. I assumed this was due to the "upper" UHF channels being re-assigned; part of this was for the then-new cellular telephone service (the old FM analog celluar band). [Oddly, the FCC also banned the sale of radio receivers (such as scanning radios) in the USA that covered the cellular band, even though practically every American household already had a device that could receive analog FM audio in the celluar band-- namely, a television set.] Anyway, while analog cellular is pretty much obsolete now, I wonder why any manufacturers would bother changing their UHF tuners over again to cover channels 70-83 (it's not like there are any actual broadcast stations there anymore), or if that's even allowed? (Does the FCC even care anymore, or was the no-UHF-tuners-over-channel-69 thing a voluntary guideline rather than a mandate?) On a related topic, once analog TV goes off the air, I suppose that will mark the end of the small, cheap, battery-powered TV set. Or new B&W TVs in general, for that matter. I guess I'm having some difficulty imagining a 5" widescreen B&W HDTV... :)
[Seriously, though, I wonder how long it will be before someone introduces a 5" LCD portable HDTV similar in style to those portable DVD players.]


In regards to last-gasp B&W consoles, yeah, I've always wondered about that myself. Zenith had 'em until at least 1979, and I've got a 1978 Admiral dealer catalog that still listed two models of them. Attached is a picture of one. Granted, they were still significantly less expensive than a color console, but I'm amazed that anyone would have still bought a brand-new B&W console in the late 70's...

Wonder what the difference is on the 10" versions between the Performance and Non Performance models.Mine says nothing about Performance series on it.Works great though.Doesn't have VIR or Autocolor.I don't even think it has AFT.Maybe only the Performance series had those features?

I could be mistaken, but I always thought the "Performance" label was something GE put on *all* of their TV's during one or two model years. I've seen even the lowliest of GE 12" B&W portables from that period with a "Performance Television" label on it. I figured it was just an ad campaign slogan that covered the entire GE TV lineup for that model year (or however long it was), and didn't specifically refer to a particular feature or "luxury" version of a product. I could be wrong though!

Nice pic-- whirled one. That TV cabinet looks a definete throw back to late 60s, early 70s when TV makers still produced quality cabinets. That TV surely looks older thatn it actually is!

I wonder who, if anyone, actually bought a B/W console that late?

One thrift near me has a 12" BW Performance set that must date from the early '70s. Right next to it is a Performance Plus 19" color set from about '85. Most of the GE sets I've seen from that period are Performance sets, but maybe not all. We had a basic '85-vintage GE 19" that wasn't one.

Andy: could be there were some colorblind 80somethings out there who bought those late '70s BW consoles, but why would the manufacturers bother with such a small market?

That late model bw set with the clear plastic cabinet might be a prison model. I think the cabinet was designed that way to prevent hiding contraband. They wouldn't require remotes & the warden could brag in the budget hearings that, sure, the prisoners had tv sets, but they were black & white!

I've also seen some awful cheap looking Performance tv's. There was a series of 12" bw sets with the controls on the bottom that were usually tube but I think the last of them were solid state. They looked straight out of the 60s; they got the Performance label along with the rest of the bunch. I seem to think there was a line called Command Peformance; I think I have a brochure for one from the eighties. The General did crank out some higher end stuff, like those blue crt sets. (got a brochure for them, too-maybe one in the same)

I can picture a lot of "old timers" buying bw consoles even later on. I guess color consoles in the late 70s were still $500 for the cheapest models? A bw console might have been in the $250 range? If all you had ever had was bw I guess it didn't matter. I remember in 1979-1980 I was a snotty nosed kid but was invited to a dinner where there was a presentation about NASA. They handed out a book showing how the space program provided inovations for the general public. They showed a picture of a Zenith TV showroom & said that some device or another was being used in Zenith bw console tv sets, as I recall.

I would suppose all of the later bw consoles would have been from the old-line sellers like Admiral, Zenith, Sears, Truetone...I bet Wells-Gardner cranked them out pretty late. You could go through Sams & find some late ones. I doubt anything was offered by the Japanese makers.

Yup... I am sure they were for the "old timers" I remember while working in my Uncles Zenith Shop, we actually had an older couple order a B&W console. My Uncle was surprised he could get one, as this was in 1981. Zenith gave 2 choices.. a light or dark colored cabinet and that was IT. This couple had an early 50's RCA that finally died, and this couple would not hear of having a color set. My Uncle even offered them a used solid state color set cheaper than that B&W console was. I think that B&W console was around $275.00 where the low end System 3's were in the $699 range. Zenith color consoles were not cheap and probably one of the higher priced sets on the market at that time. The Zenith distributer in the Omaha area (Truesdell) was shocked that we ordered one and thought it might be a joke. They had one in the warehouse tho. Don't know what year it was as I assume it sat in the box awhile.

Y'know, I hadn't considered the "prison model" possibility... interesting thought, but I'm more inclined to think it was a regular-market item and that the clear cabinet was just because that was the "cool thing" at the time; seemed like everything from radios to Nintendo games to office supplies to cola drinks to gasoline had to be offered in some sort of "clear" version. :-/
However, I can't imagine that this TV would have been much less expensive than a low-end 13" color set, so I have no idea who would have bought such a thing..! Certainly never saw one of these in a store...

Back to the late-70's B&W consoles though-- yeah, I'm sure these would have been geared towards the "old timer" crowd, but it's still pretty surprising that there would be any significant market for them. For comparison, here's what the pricing was like for the 1978 Admiral TV lineup according to that catalog.

Those two 22" B&W consoles (identical except for cabinet style) were $299.99 list and had a dealer net of $233.65 for quanity 1 - 5. The least-expensive color console was a 25" model selling for $609.95 list ($494.25 net). [The catalog does show one lone 23" color console which I assume would have been slightly cheaper, but for whatever reason is not on the dealer price schedule (perhaps it had already been discontinued before the price list was printed? It is labeled as a "revised" price schedule)

So, the B&W console had a list price of just about half that of the cheapest color console. That's a pretty big difference!

BUT! If money was of primary concern, it seems you would have done well to consider these other possibilites that would have also been available from your local Admiral dealer. For example, rather than spend $299 on a 22" B&W console, you could have instead bought their 'deluxe' 19" B&W portable/table TV for $169.95 list ($136.10 net). Granted, it doesn't have the "fancy" (but mostly hardboard with plastic trim) cabinet of the consoles, but it does have an optional matching pedestal base available (price not listed) which would have dressed it up a bit. Especially given that the dealer would have probably more likely to offer a discount on the 19" B&W (which he'd probably already have in stock) than the 22" console (which he'd probably have to special order), we'd be talking about the console costing roughly twice that of the portable, and for not a particularly huge difference in screen size either. Oh, and it appears that they probably have the same chassis too. So, you'd have to *really* *really* want that console cabinet!
Now, if you wanted a color TV without spending the $600+ on a console, Admiral offered 19" table models starting at $399.99 list ($314.55 net, which falls to $307.15 for qty 6+). Granted, that's still more than the price of the 22" B&W consoles, but it's not nearly as big a price jump as it is to go to a 25" color console.

Question is: has anyone ever seen a late-70's B&W set in recent times? As has already been suggested, those must be pretty rare nowadays. I've never seen one turn up at garage sales/estate sales/thrift stores/flea markets, or even left out on the curb for the garbage man. *Somebody* obviously had to have bought these things back then. What happened to them all? Did everyone who bought a B&W console in the late 70's become so embarrassed by their purchase that they carried it directly to the landfill under cover of darkness rather than try to sell or give it away..? :)

P.S. Colortrakker-- looks like you're an _Oh! Mikey_ fan, eh..?

Question is: has anyone ever seen a late-70's B&W set in recent times?

Just noticed my own post-- yeah, I meant "late-70's B&W console set"; I know you can certainly find enough late-70's B&W portables... :)

Oh, and BTW, attached is a scan of the back side of the catalog page for that Admiral 22" B&W console model shown in an earlier post. All that sales-talk makes it sound pretty exciting, eh? :)

I would have bought that wierd clear cased B&W TV. I couldn't have left something that weird behind.

The most recent large (> 9") new B&W sets that I remember seeing here would have been in the early 90s. I was in Melbourne CBD and passed one of those dodgy shops that sold counterfit watches and perfume. They had 14" and 19" B&W sets in black plastic cases that looked like color sets at first glance. The 14" set had a click tuner and looked odd, but the 19" set had push button tuning and a LED display. In the true dodgy nature of this shop none of the sets were running and the signs advertising these "CHEAP" TVs did not mention they were B&W.

I also remember being surprised when I saw ads in a 1991/2 Asian source catalog for 21" remote control B&W sets.

More recently a couple of years back I repaired a 12" B&W surveilance monitor that had spaces on the PCB for a tuner module and channel up/down controls. The case was white plastic rather than the usual silver/grey, but the blanked off hole for the antenna socket and and mounting hole for a pair of rabbit ears were still there.

While it seems B&W sets hung around for longer than I would have thought I never saw any more recently than say the mid 80s in actual domestic use. Even then most of those were older sets for the 60/70s that had been passed on and were serving as garage or bedrooms sets.

I did see a quite a lot of cheap 12" B&W sets in factories as process control monitors. They must have been cheap enough that it was worth adding a video input rather than buy actual monitors.

http://www.js.cei.gov.cn/JSfamous/0100047/exiongmc.htm

This site lists several B/W remote TVs. Someone should order a container load!

I have a really unusual 14" B&W Motorola (not Quasar)... It's about '75 with 3 or 4 tubes; rest is solid state. AND ITS REMOTE!!!!!!!!!!! A single button version of the mechanical one that was used with the late 70s Quasar color sets. It also has auto brightness, and auto-shutoff that turned the power off after a minute or so of signal loss (off-the-air). Mine is the only one like it WITH REMOTE I've ever seen. If anybody is curious to see it, I can haul it out and take a picture. It still kind of works, and I've never done anything to it since I took it in trade 25 years ago for another set. I had given it to my friend's 5-year-old sister back then when I first got it. Recently her husband told her to get rid of it, and I got it back :) Normally I would have told her to dump it, but I happened to think how unusual it was so I took it. Still has the papers too! (TV not for sale since it's history with me goes so far back)

Charles

http://www.js.cei.gov.cn/JSfamous/0100047/exiongmc.htm

This site lists several B/W remote TVs. Someone should order a container load!

So are these still being manufactured today? I assume they'd have to sell them for a lot less than a color set and when a 14" color set sells for AU$79 retail that can't be much. I wouldn't have thought that there'd be anywhere left where the difference in price would be great enough for people to choose B&W over color.

I'd probably buy ONE for the hell of it, but I've got no market for the other 199. :)

I've had a 71 Zenith B&W with remote, but nothing newer b/w with a remote. The newest B&W TV I've had overall was a 88 Admiral B&W portable. I've never had a 70s B&W console, I think I would actually like one, just because it is kind of unusual. Do they still make B&W at all, I think the newest one I've seen is that 88 Admiral.

They still make B&W CRT TVs in 5"; SUPER-cheapie. They turn up at grocery stores for $19.99, and in car dealerships to be free with a test-drive, etc. Here's one on eBay of this ilk:

http://cgi.ebay.com/acn3511-Action-5-TV-with-AM-FM-Radio-ACN-3511-acn-3511_W0QQitemZ5846186094QQcategoryZ11074QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem

Charles

I've been absent from the forums for a week or so, so I just saw this post.

I forget who it was, but one of our younger members (MaxM? Retro Hacker?) posted pics here of the one he found a while ago

It might have been me (23).

This TV is nice though. It actually has full DC restoration. Mine is from 1982 I believe.

There is also a 19" version of this set I'd love to get my hands on.

The schematic for the tuner I believe Andy posted a while ago.

Also got a 1974 RCA B&W 16" set with remote. It is all tubes except the remote circuit.