My old CTC-5 is now in the capable hands of Eckhard Etzold and it will be going through a complete restoration shortly!
It made the trip to Germany intact with no damage, here is a picture he sent me of it displaying a local program there.

---

It was shipped expedited air, I shipped Monday he should have gotten it by Thursday. It was in the high hundreds.

<sigh>

Well, she's got a good new home now :)

Yeah, Kam, my thoughts exactly...-Sandy G.

My old CTC-5 is now in the capable hands of Eckhard Etzold and it will be going through a complete restoration shortly!
It made the trip to Germany intact with no damage, here is a picture he sent me of it displaying a local program there.

He must be using a TV standards converter, as Germany is a PAL country, (or SECAM if he's in what was East Germany) and the TV expects NTSC. Different scan rates and differing color encoding methods.

Another problem would be the powerline. Aside from the obvious voltage difference (220V vs 120V) there is the issue of the line frequency, 50 vs 60 Hz. As higher frequencies allow for smaller transformer core, its power transformer may get unhappy on 50Hz. Core saturation may start, making it overheat. As the transformer is likely designed to accept up to 130V 60Hz before saturation starts to kick in, it should be able to take 50/60 of that on 50Hz. About 108V, maybe 110, which would be the low end of American voltage supply. Something to look out for. If the transformer gets very
hot, this may be doing it.

I doubt that the power transformer will get hot, It's a 25 cycle unit!
Remember this tv was "Canadianized" when it was originally exported to that country.

I doubt that the power transformer will get hot, It's a 25 cycle unit!
Remember this tv was "Canadianized" when it was originally exported to that country.

It must be a biggie! A 120V 25Hz transformer will work on 240V 50Hz just
fine. HOWEVER the rest of the set will become rather unhappy with all of the secondary voltages being double :no: If you really wanted to, you could split the 6.3V heater tubes into two equal current halves, and feed those halves with the old 6.3V now 12.6V heater winding. The high voltage secondary (I assume has a center tap) will be double its old voltage, so I'd use just one section of it feeding a bridge rectifier composed of the 5U4 or such rectifier tube the set uses for the positive end, and a pair of silicon rectifier diodes for the negative end. Also the 5u4 heater voltage will need to be reduced. I doubt that anyone would want to go to this much bother.

But it would be much easier to just use an autoformer to convert the 220V to 120V, and the set stays closer to original.

Wonder if the new caretaker would like to be a part of our little debating society here? Wonder if he spreckens ze Englischer well enuff to join in? Just a thought...-Sandy G.

He's just stepping down the 220 and has a PAL to NTSC converter that he is using on the set.
Just talked to him and am hoping he can find me an original Dual turntable for my German market Saba combo! As I have asked my relatives in Berlin and they haven't a clue as to what I need and are not into antique electronics.

Bloody awsome. Great to see these early sets getting exported worldwide. I heard that some Brits acquired a couple of CT-100s through the netvine.

I'll have to one day (when I've got enough money to splash around) import a roundie to Australia and be the first Aussie to own a roundie colour telly :thmbsp: ! Then I will hook up my Austar box via VCR to the telly, tune to the Fox Footy Channel and take a photo of the screen whilst an AFL footy game http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39386000/jpg/_39386692_jump_getty.jpg is in session and post it here in the forum as part of the Aussie tradition :D :lmao: ! And then take some snaps of the Footy Show as well http://www.newcastleknights.com.au/shop/onlineshop2/img/productImages/footyshowdvdP.jpg :lmao: . Well I will take a photo of something Australian on the screen anyhow :thmbsp: !

Hope one day I'll have the opportunity.

I just received an E-mail from Mr Etzold looking for a Flyback for a CTC-5.
Guessing it's for this set? (maybe it fried?)
Anyway I have a used one but it's leaking a gob of wax and told him he might want to come here and see if anyone has a better spare.

Eric

He's just stepping down the 220 and has a PAL to NTSC converter that he is using on the set.


Hello, let me enter your discussion. I have a 230 to 117 volts converter which is working well (output is 117 volts.) The set has an extra transformer for the 405 volt d.c.. The transformer remains cool even after watching two hours tv. This is ok. The origin transformer in the set generates only the heating voltage, which is with 6.7 volts more than the regular 6.8 volts. The tubes are little overheated. Is this acceptable or should I lower to voltage to 6.3 volts?
The signal conversion is easy with a dvd player. I can switch it to NTSC with 60 frames per second. For the conversion of the local tv program I have a PAL to NTSC converter which converts only the carrier from 4.43 mc to 3.58 mc. With vertical hold I tune it to 50 frames, the line frequency is nearly the same with 15,625 cycles. Some trouble I have with the video impedance of 75 ohms and 1 kohms, the input overdrives.
The flyback is getting hot after one hour, appr. 60 degrees celsius. I am not shure about its condition. Wax is leaking. I have conservated it with "Plastik 70", a kind of pourable plastic. The focus control (200 kohm) is bad. But I have to check the whole horizontal output unit.
Here in Germany we are only two collectors of old U.S. tv sets, as far as I know. The other one lives near Munich, he is also looking for a flyback for his ctc5 which is not in working condition, and I try to help him. He has sent me a rf-modulator with the correct audio if (4.5 mc), this is neccesary because the PAL carrier with 4.43 mc is very close to it.

---

They also have Armed Forces Network (AFN) in Germany. That signal is in our American frequency. There are no modifications needed to watch an American set. You can buy transformers in the PX that will convert the voltage for you. (220v to 120v) As I remember there was an antenna that you turned a certain way to get the German TV stations. I think they are on 9mhz and we are on 10mhz??? I had no issues with my mid 70's GE when I lived there 14 years ago. All this was through the air with an antenna. NO CABLE TV!!!!



polaraman

6.7v instead of 6.3 v should be ok. Anything within 10% of 6.3v will be fine.

As for the flyback getting hot, I would check the horizontal output tube cathode current and make sure it's within the range listed in the service manual. I assume you've replaced all the paper caps? A leaking cap in the horizontal drive circuit will cause the flyback to overheat. Finally, dropping the line voltage to 110v might make a big difference in the flyback temp.

Paper caps are renewed. I have a big transformer for 115 volts. But the powerline in Germany is changing. Before 12 years we had 220 volts, now we have 230 volts, that's the problem. Today we have 225 volts here in my house. I can lower the main power to 110 volts by using a 3.3 Ohm resistor (50 watts).
Another problem I noticed, happens in the first seconds after switching on the set. The rectifier tubes (5U4GB) light upe very quickly and the electrolytics were loaded with more than 540 volts. But they are specified only for appr. 400 volts. My suggestion: Parallel to the main switch in the set I solder a rectifier diode (p600d), so the set gets only half the power consumption when connecting with the mains. And when the tubes lighted up, I switch the set on. The voltage at the electrolytics (c105, c106) remains in the specified range.

They also have Armed Forces Network (AFN) in Germany. That signal is in our American frequency. There are no modifications needed to watch an American set. You can buy transformers in the PX that will convert the voltage for you. (220v to 120v) As I remember there was an antenna that you turned a certain way to get the German TV stations. I think they are on 9mhz and we are on 10mhz??? I had no issues with my mid 70's GE when I lived there 14 years ago. All this was through the air with an antenna. NO CABLE TV!!!!polaraman

I don't get AFN on the air here in Brunswick. I lived in Berlin for some years, where we had AFN (and it's wonderful music, I miss it here).
Antenna: German tv stations transmit in horizontal polarisation, AFN is transmitted vertical. You had to turn the antenna for 90 ° to receive AFN.

My suggestion: Parallel to the main switch in the set I solder a rectifier diode (p600d), so the set gets only half the power consumption when connecting with the mains. And when the tubes lighted up, I switch the set on. The voltage at the electrolytics (c105, c106) remains in the specified range.

Isn't this set a power transformer operated set? I don't think that the power transformer is gonna like having a rectifier diode between it and the powerline.

Anyway, many electrolytic caps can take a few seconds of overvoltage. Some are marked with "surge voltage" ratings.

---

> Very true about the transformer not wanting to see DC.

Yes, it doesn't work with U.S.-tv sets. We can do it in Germany with old tube tv's. They have no transformer and serial heating.
I have lowered the AC current down to 108 volts which results in 6.3 volt heating voltage. There are less arcs than before in the horizontal output stage. With 104 volts the set is working properly, but the picture is too small now. The flyback is cool even after an hour.
The total power consumption noted on the back is 350 watts. But I measured ony 260 to 270 watts (2.5 A).Are there such discrepances in total power consumption?

I think the method of operation here with the diode is like when a diode is used without a filter cap in the "instant on" circuit of TV's....part of the AC waveform is cut off so that the effective voltage is lower.
How is the horizontal output tube current/horizontal efficiency coil adjustment?
Does this set have a width switch that may be adjusted?

Somewhere on an RCA color tv schematic I saw that the filament winding of the power transformer actually produced 6.8 volts? I have not actually measured the filament voltage in an RCA set to check.

I think it would be a good idea for this guy to buy a autotransformer.{variac}.
Also make sure you have a fuse on the ac line.{mains} to be safe.

> How is the horizontal output tube current/horizontal efficiency coil
> adjustment?

I'm very busy at work in the moment. Next weekend I have time enough to open the set and to measure the horizontal output tube current.

> Does this set have a width switch that may be adjusted?

Yes, it has, I have selected the greatest width position. With 108 volts I get full screen width, see attached a photo from the sports in tv this week. Red, blue and green drive I had adjusted meanwhile.

> I think it would be a good idea for this guy to buy a
> autotransformer.{variac}.

OK! I will see what I get here. I shall need a whole transformer park for this set ;-) First a 230 voltage variac, then the 230 volts downward transformer for 110 volts, then the transformer module for canadian 25 cycles which came with the set...

Yagosaga- Pretty good picture, I'd say ! I hope you know how LUCKY you are to have this old set-and that it made it all the way to Germany in one piece !! It is TRULY a treasure. Furthermore, am glad you've decided to join our little discussion group here-lots of very good info & good fellowship... Enjoy !!-Sandy G.

Yagosaga- Pretty good picture, I'd say ! I hope you know how LUCKY you are to have this old set-and that it made it all the way to Germany in one piece !! It is TRULY a treasure. Furthermore, am glad you've decided to join our little discussion group here-lots of very good info & good fellowship... Enjoy !!-Sandy G.

Yes, it's really a tresure. I have done my first restauration job of a color tv set in 1975, and I need one year for it. It was a Saba Schauninsland T2500E color, a German set from 1967/1968 with a A63-11X color crt. This is 30 years ago. I have seen many unnumbered color tv sets since that time, but I never touched a set with my own fingers which is older than 1967. I knew that Americans had color tv even in the 1950s. But I didn'nt believe that I would get such a set in my whole lifetime. This is not only a set, but it's a piece of history for itself, which one can find only in the U.S..
The most beautiful German color tv set ever manufactored was - in my opinion - the first Telefunken set of 1967, the PALcolor 708. Here is a photo of this set from a guy who lives in Wuppertal. A set with a strong A63-11X, very rare. (Most of this color crt's had a bad red gun after appr. six years.)

Wow !! EXTRAORDINARY picture on that Telefunken !! Looks like it's in superb cosmetic shape, too-and the CRT doesn't have that ugly black band around it like a lot of Brit/Euro TVs do-is that TV tube/transistor or hybrid? -Sandy G.

Is that a wooden mask around the CRT, or painted metal?
A beatiful set, I like the nice clean lines of those German sets.

Wow !! EXTRAORDINARY picture on that Telefunken !! Looks like it's in superb cosmetic shape, too-and the CRT doesn't have that ugly black band around it like a lot of Brit/Euro TVs do-is that TV tube/transistor or hybrid? -Sandy G.

Yes, it is a set in excellent condition. It is a hybrid tv set with tubes and transistors. A documentation of it (only in German) I have on:

http://bs.cyty.com/menschen/e-etzold/archiv/TV/telefunken/palcolor708.htm

Schematics can be found under "Schaltplan", click the word "Einheitschassis". You will see that this set is based upon early U.S. color tv technology with 380 volts D.C., shunt regulator and so on.

Another set of this era (with the ugly black band around it) I have documentated on

http://bs.cyty.com/menschen/e-etzold/archiv/TV/metz/metz6285.htm

This set belongs to me, I got it before 15 years, and it has the first chromacolor tube (A66-120X) with very strong guns.

Is that a wooden mask around the CRT, or painted metal?
A beatiful set, I like the nice clean lines of those German sets.

It is a wooden mask. As I said, there were very few models which had this wooden mask, this Telefunken, and the Saba Schauinsland T2500E color. Since 1969 the manufactores changed to the "push-trough-crt's" (I don't know the correct English word, those crt's with the ugly black band around it), and with it the design lost it's beautiness.

I've always liked the "look" of German products-and the "feel". The old Grundig & SABA radio sets of the 1950s-'60s all had a VERY substantial "feel" to them-and generally, they sounded quite good, too !! My Rohde & Schwarz EK-07 Boatanchor-all the knobs have this ultra smooth, almost "buttery" feel to 'em- sorta like "everything's turning in oil". An R-390A Boatanchor, by contrast, feels, well..."agricultural" by comparison. The wooden mask on that TV is pure class, IMHO. We lost a LOT when black plastic became our god...-Sandy G.

Transformer park, thats funny. Can you tap the 230v step down transformer to 120.
purchase an american 120v auto transformer and plug it into the 230 stepdown transformer and then turn up the auto transformer output to 110. That way you do not have to worry about 5u4 arcs and surge voltages, etc.
My mains put out 122v here if i plug my ctc5s into the mains with out a variac the 5u4s put on a light show and the flyback gets hot.{ctc5s transformers sold in the us are rated at117v}Your set has a vary nice picture. Alot of work to get them going.
German electronics are well made. I have 2 Grundig radios. They were easy to fix and
sound great.

I've always liked the "look" of German products-and the "feel". The old Grundig & SABA radio sets of the 1950s-'60s all had a VERY substantial "feel" to them-and generally, they sounded quite good, too !! My Rohde & Schwarz EK-07 Boatanchor-all the knobs have this ultra smooth, almost "buttery" feel to 'em- sorta like "everything's turning in oil". An R-390A Boatanchor, by contrast, feels, well..."agricultural" by comparison. The wooden mask on that TV is pure class, IMHO. We lost a LOT when black plastic became our god...-Sandy G.

Before one year, when our daily used Tv set was destroyed by a powerline defect (powerline had 400 volts instead of 230 volts) I tried to buy a new tv set wíth a wooden mask but it was impossible. Only plastic sets are available. I like that old wooden sets, mostly those from the 1950s. I have one old Grundig b/w tv tabletop set with a radio in good condition, which was already often photographed by photographs for journals and newspapers because of it's wonderful design. Saba made also excellent radios and sets, I own a Saba Meersburg 7, which might be one of the best, easy to service. But in the 1960s radios and tv sets become more and more plastic parts and they aren't as beautiful as before.

http://bs.cyty.com/menschen/e-etzold/archiv/TV/grundig/type349.htm

Transformer park, thats funny. Can you tap the 230v step down transformer to 120. purchase an american 120v auto transformer and plug it into the 230 stepdown transformer and then turn up the auto transformer output to 110. That way you do not have to worry about 5u4 arcs and surge voltages, etc.
My mains put out 122v here if i plug my ctc5s into the mains with out a variac the 5u4s put on a light show and the flyback gets hot.{ctc5s transformers sold in the us are rated at117v}Your set has a vary nice picture. Alot of work to get them going.
German electronics are well made. I have 2 Grundig radios. They were easy to fix and
sound great.

Thank you very much for that advice. Without it I had buyed one in Germany. But to buy an U.S. type on ebay might be the better way. Attached a photo of my Grundig tv radio tabletop model in a German journal.

Wow. Wow... That Grundig television is absolutely beautiful. I always have loved the styling of the Grundig sets, with the big slide-rule dial scale and large knobs, and the piano key switches. I'd never seen that in a television before, but I like it :) I've got a Grundig console hi-fi with a very similar tuning scale and layout, and I love it. It sounds wonderful on the phono, but the radio plays weak. I just need to get off my butt and replace the caps in the circuit... Can't complain though, I found the console on the side of the road, waiting for the garbage. Hard to believe someone would throw out something so beautiful, but I guess people would much rather have the cheap, Wal-Mart crap these days.

As for the styling of newer European sets, with the black band around the tube, from what I can tell, it's just that they mounted the tube such that the entire glass section sticks through the front, rather than cover up the edges with a bezel like the American sets. I actually kinda always thought that looked neat, at least on some of the 60's/70's B&W 12" sets. Never seen one in person, only in pictures, but since that sort of 12" plastic portable set is so common here, and they all have the same basic design, having the entire tube visable makes it look a little more interesting. Never been able to find one like it here though, something tells me I won't. Doubtful that anyone moving from Europe to the US would bother bringing along a cheap 12" black and white television, only to have it be totally incompatible with the US systems...

-Ian

Wow. Wow... That Grundig television is absolutely beautiful. I always have loved the styling of the Grundig sets, with the big slide-rule dial scale and large knobs, and the piano key switches.

piano key switches: well spoken! In Germany we call it in a common manner the "Gebissradio" (= the set-of-teeth-radio)...

As for the styling of newer European sets, with the black band around the tube, from what I can tell, it's just that they mounted the tube such that the entire glass section sticks through the front, rather than cover up the edges with a bezel like the American sets.
-Ian

This was very modern in my childhood. Everyone wants such a breathtaking set, and everyone want to touch the screen and feel the curves of the glass... ;-) Here is a color tv set with a bezel and a sticks-through crt:

http://bs.cyty.com/stjakobi/unskirch/2004/img/Fernseh-Jakobiz74.jpg

(this PAL tv set has a color *and* a tint control!)

and the first Telefunken solid state portable (with a delta-crt):

http://bs.cyty.com/menschen/e-etzold/archiv/TV/telefunken/img/511inBetrieb2.JPG

Grundig used the same crt-type. They didn't stick it through the cabinet but used a bezel:

http://bs.cyty.com/menschen/e-etzold/archiv/TV/grundig/img/Color2000TDvorn.jpg

Not as beautiful as the elder models was the second Telefunken color tv:

http://bs.cyty.com/menschen/e-etzold/archiv/TV/telefunken/img/709inBetrieb2.JPG

On the website of Marcel van Grinsvens TV-Museum you can see a lot of european sets (this is - in my opinion - one of the largest documentation of european early tv sets on the web, but the site is completely in dutch language. Marcel doesn't understand English, it's very difficult to communicate with him. But his website is worthy to visit:

http://www.marcelstvmuseum.com/

A lot of really interesting sets at Marcel's museum, interesting how different trends in design evolve. I do rather like the look of the fully exposed CRT face, probably because it's so different. I've never seen an American TV like that. That second Telefunken color set is a very nice looking one, I like the clean lines and the balanced design. Another thing I've noticed is that it seems to be more popular in the european sets to have the controls mounted lower, and the speaker above them - exactly opposite most American televisons, where the controls are normally mounted closer to the top of the set. Another big difference in the apperance of the European sets is the lack of tuning knobs, something that persisted in the US until the 80's. Nearly every American TV from the 70's will have two knobs, one for VHF (Channels 1-13, and a position to select UHF) and one for UHF (14 - 83). My guess is that the European sets didn't have to worry about dealing with such a large number of channels, so pushbutton tuning was practical even without digital tuners. I'm not familliar with the TV system outside the US, I know that most of Europe uses PAL, and France uses SECAM, but I don't know about the channel allocation. Just, from looking at the sets, there are six pushbuttons on that Telefunken, so what, six channels?

Now, that's not to suggest that the US has more channels, we just have more channel numbers. To prevent overlapping transmitters in different areas, the stations are spread around the band a little. It's not uncommon to only be able to pick up three channels in an area, and a couple weak UHF stations.

-Ian

Another big difference in the apperance of the European sets is the lack of tuning knobs, something that persisted in the US until the 80's. Nearly every American TV from the 70's will have two knobs, one for VHF (Channels 1-13, and a position to select UHF) and one for UHF (14 - 83). My guess is that the European sets didn't have to worry about dealing with such a large number of channels, so pushbutton tuning was practical even without digital tuners. I'm not familliar with the TV system outside the US, I know that most of Europe uses PAL, and France uses SECAM, but I don't know about the channel allocation. Just, from looking at the sets, there are six pushbuttons on that Telefunken, so what, six channels? -Ian

In the 1960s and 1970s we only had three tv channels, they were ARD, ZDF and the third (culture) channel. But ARD and ZDF were the main channels. (The second tv channel, ZDF, came in 1963.) Some people near the border to other countries could get even five or six channels . In my region we had the two GDR channels too, but could see them only in b&w, because the early PAL sets had no SECAM module. Channel range is VHF with channel 2 - 12 and UHF with channel 21 - 69. Our channel width is 7 Mc from picture carrier to the picture carrier of the next channel.In 1984 we got commercial tv, today we get 25 channels (commercial and national broadcasting), our tv system (on the air) now is dvb-t, and I convert it to PAL or to NTSC.

As for the flyback getting hot, I would check the horizontal output tube cathode current and make sure it's within the range listed in the service manual.
The horizontal output tube cathode current is 182 ma (at 108 volts power line) with no difference whether I set picture width switch in wide, middle or small position. Horizontal width is too small even in the wide position. In the service manual I found only noted, "the reading should not exceed 220 ma". 180 ma seems too less.
Parallel to L106 (horizontal tuning coil) there has to be a 0.15 capacitor (c114) according to the service manual. But only 0.1 were installed. Might it have an effect on the picture width?

Eckhard. Have the caps been replaced? I assume you did. I checked my manual and c114 shows a .01. One end connects to pin 3 of the 6cg7 the other end to ground. Check pin 3 on the 6cg7. The voltage should be around 10v. If it is, you should be ok. Check the horz drive voltage. Should be around -38v.to -40v on pins 4-5 on the 6cb5. If ok Turn the ac up to 110v. Set the width switch to the middle position and check the horz current. see what you get. I have mine set to 198 ma with the ac set to 114v. Another thing you should check is the high voltage regulator current The reading should be around 0.8 ma with the brightness turned all the way down.The high voltage to the crt should be around 22kv. You have to take the information you read in a manual with a grain of salt. Sometimes they make mistakes.{only human}Or rca did a production change. Voltage readings may be off by a couple volts. or you see parts that show a diffrent value. That is normal. I go by the value of the old part I am replacing.as long as it looks like the original part. Another thing, If you replace the caps in the power supply make sure the value of the replacement is the same as the original. If you go to high{80uf to 100uf} It may upset other sections of the chassis and can make the flyback run hot.{ Been there, Done it, Diden't like it.}
good luck
ED

Caps already had been replaced (except for the color units) before I get the set. I have changed c114 to 0.1. Horizontal drive voltage is -20v on pin 5 on the 6CB5 (with 105 volts ac). The +385 v supply has only 317 volts (with 105 ac) and 365 volts with 114 volts ac. I measured crt heating voltage again, but now directly on pin 1 and 14 of the crt, it is 6.15v (with 114 ac). But I checked the focus control R129 and opened it. It had burned out inside, see photo. The focus control seems to be the true source of inconstant picture and arcings! I have renewed it. The picture now is sharp and clear with rich contrast and brightness. But there is still something to do to set the d.c. currents properly. Perhaps the 5U4 are weak because of the additional electrolytics for the canadian 25 cycle rectifying.

So Erick is gonna get his hands on an old color tv. Uhh. I want a one like taht too!

With the width control set at center and the ac at 114v. Do the sides of the picture fill the screen? What is the horz current reading at 114v ac? Check the high voltage to the crt, Is it around 22kv? Did you check the high voltage regulator current {6bk4}? When you are running the set on a lower ac voltage, The dc and heater readings will be a little low.That is normal. I am glad you are getting a good picture, Makes it worth all the work you are doing to the set. When you get the time, Replace the caps in the color section.{To avoid problems}
ED

Sorry, but I have some simple (and silly?) questions. When I remove the chassis, I can't get it easily into working condition outside the set, because the cables (connection to the deflection jokes) are too short. The only possibility is to turn it around 180 ° and put it with the back half into the set. Do you have any tricks? Is there anything to hanging in the chassis while servicing in operating mode?

With 114 v ac and width control at center position, the sides of the picture fill the screen, see
http://bs.cyty.com/menschen/e-etzold/1a.jpg

For checking high voltage current and the other measures I need some help to put the chassis into a suitable service position. In the moment servicing is very pedantically.

I am currently working on two CTC-5s and have the same problem with the chassis. RCA produced a set of extension cables that allowed the chassis to be set on the top or side of the cabinet. It is possible to make a set of these but the hardest part is to find the connectors for the convergence plug. You probably could back the chassis into the cabinet but the anode lead may not be long enough to get into the high voltage cage.

Steve

Yagosaga- Awwww, man, that's a nice picture !!! You've done an EXCELLENT job...Congrats are in order. I was a bit resentful at first that one of these guys had left the country, but now that I see how you've treated it, the "love" & respect you obviously show towards it, I don't think it could be in better hands.... My hat's off to you, sir !! -Sandy G.

I am currently working on two CTC-5s and have the same problem with the chassis. ... Steve
| ROTFL |

- An old tv serviceman here in Brunswick told me, when he was servicing these old color tv's in the 1950s and 1960s in the U.S., they fetch only the chassis from the owners, not the whole set, and hang it into the van. In the repair workshop they had a frame, where they hang the chassis in. At the workbench they had a crt with different adapters, so they could connect the chassis. Then they repaired it, and if one could find the failure within a specified time, he has to change with another serviceman. After repairing they brought back the chassis and put it into the set. (But I don't have a RCA workbench... ;-)

Wo ist Brunswick order ist das Braunschweig? Es tut mir leid mein deutsch is nicht gut aber ich werde Deutschland in Mai besuchen. I will send you a PM so others don't get upset over my poor use of German!

Bis dann,
Steve

Yagosaga- Awwww, man, that's a nice picture !!! You've done an EXCELLENT job...Congrats are in order. I was a bit resentful at first that one of these guys had left the country, but now that I see how you've treated it, the "love" & respect you obviously show towards it, I don't think it could be in better hands.... My hat's off to you, sir !! -Sandy G.
Thank you very much for your friendly words. Yes, I love these old sets since decades. For me it is a honour to serve one of these treasures. We usually don't get no full tube color tv set here in Europe. The eldest sets are hybrid sets. And I remember when I was a pupil and later a student 25 years ago, I repaired many color tcv sets from the 1960s. Most of them had weak crt's, with bad red guns. I have learned to revival those sets without any brightener like you know in the U.S., alone by fine adjustment of color drive, screen background etc.. in this case here with the ctc-5, it is much easier. It's crt ist still strong. And the owners before did a good job with recapping and cleaning the chassis.
This is not the only ctc-5 here in Germany. A friend of mine has one (but not in working condition) and even a ct-100.

Wo ist Brunswick order ist das Braunschweig? ...Steve
It is Braunschweig, near Hanover. You can write in English to me. Deutsch is a terrible language (this already said Mark Twain). I can read English much better than write it.
When I come to America the next time I hope, I can visit the Early Television Foundation. (Some members of my family live in the french part of Canada.)

Check the high voltage to the crt, Is it around 22kv?
It is 21kv (with dark screen), 20.8kv with bright screen. The next values follow when I have enough time to remove the chassis and find a solution to operate it outside the cabinet.

Eckhard. That is wonderful. Such a Great picture on that set. looks to me you know what you are doing. If i recall correctly. I put the chassis on it's side. The hi volt cage on the bottom. The yoke wires are short but you can turn the chassis so the wires reach. Please look out for the yoke socket. It moves when you plug the yoke in or out. {Not mounted to well} Convergence wires. hi volt and the crt wires should be long enough. {please be careful of the crt}. Also connect a ground wire to the ground tabs up front were the chassis slides in. For extra protection you can use rope or wire to hold the chassis in place. Tie one end to the chassis and the other to the cabinet. { like when you tie the christmas tree to the wall so the cat can not knock it over} This may sound strange, but Next to the transformer park I want you to build a test meter park. One meter for b+. One for horz current and your hi volt probe. Once you know all the readings are ok {horz-reg current,} Put the chassis back in the cabinet, Hook up the meters and run the set for 15 minutes. Check the readings, shut the set off ,discharge the high voltage {ground wire to the 3a3} and put your hand on the flyback{ It should not be hot}. Turn the set back on and do it again. This time run it for 30 minutes. then 45 etc. When you hit 60 minutes the fly will be warm not hot. check your meter readings. Look out for drift:{ big changes in current reading, b+ and hi voltage} I like watching the meters. How the readings change with the action of the picture or when the set warms up. Do this for a week or so . get a feel how the set runs. That way you know there is not a problem. I had meters on mine for a month . The ctc 5 runs like a bitch once you get the bugs out of them. I haven't had to do any thing to mine in years. Such a cool tv .

ED

If i recall correctly. I put the chassis on it's side. The hi volt cage on the bottom. The yoke wires are short but you can turn the chassis so the wires reach. Please look out for the yoke socket. It moves when you plug the yoke in or out. {Not mounted to well} Convergence wires. hi volt and the crt wires should be long enough. {please be careful of the crt}. Also connect a ground wire to the ground tabs up front were the chassis slides in. For extra protection you can use rope or wire to hold the chassis in place. Tie one end to the chassis and the other to the cabinet. { like when you tie the christmas tree to the wall so the cat can not knock it over}
I'm not really happy with this construction. The ctc-5-chassis is the heaviest tv-chassis I've seen in my life (and the sets I've seen are unnumbered in the last 30 years). It is still very strange for me. One moment of inattentiveness and the falling chassis hit the neck of the crt, and the game is over.
I see two solutions:
- First I construct a wooden frame for the chassis outside the cabinet, which holds it in a safe way.
- The second solution: I solder some wire at the measure points on the chassis and install a "soldering border" (= correct words? In German we say "Loetleiste") inside the cabinet for the wires. Every wire gets a paper mark with it's connection on the chassis. So I can put the chassis inside again and have measure points for future evaluations. I prefer this second solution.
With the test meters, there is no problem, I have enough, and I have enough connection wires too (in German we say "Krokodilsklemmen"). And if I haven't enough, I ask my 11 year old son... ;-)
... Look out for drift:{ big changes in current reading, b+ and hi voltage} I like watching the meters. How the readings change with the action of the picture or when the set warms up. Do this for a week or so . get a feel how the set runs.ED
Yes, to get a feeling is the most important thing. For every vintage set which I have repaired I needed time to get a feeling for it. At first to understand the schematics, then to watch the set in operating modus. American and German tv sets are very different. The Germans are not so heavy and robust but seem to be more complicated, especially the color hybrid sets.

Yes your solutions are much better. Here we call the old chassis boat anchors.

(= correct words? In German we say "Loetleiste")

I believe that a Loetleiste is a "terminal strip." It is interesting that in German you call them Krokodilsklemmen (crocodile clamps) we call them alligator clamps!

Steve

It is interesting that in German you call them Krokodilsklemmen (crocodile clamps) we call them alligator clamps!
Steve
That's really interesting! You have alligators in your country and therefore you have alligator clamps. The correct German expression has to be lizard clamps (= Eidechsenklemme), for we have neither crocodiles nor alligators but only small lizards in our country. But "Krokodilsklemme" sounds much more exciting. See you later, alligator...

I think I recall reading a German patent about "Bildroehren" (picture tubes) that featured "electronenkanonen" (spelling?) I got a kick out of picturing large-bore cannons (we would say electron guns) in the neck of the tube.

Congratulations on the great results you are getting.

Hook up the meters and run the set for 15 minutes. Check the readings, shut the set off ,discharge the high voltage {ground wire to the 3a3} and put your hand on the flyback{ It should not be hot}. Turn the set back on and do it again. This time run it for 30 minutes. then 45 etc. When you hit 60 minutes the fly will be warm not hot. check your meter readings. Look out for drift:{ big changes in current reading, b+ and hi voltage} I like watching the meters. How the readings change with the action of the picture or when the set warms up.
I did it tonight. The readings of the test meters:
Start: b+ 371v, horizontal output current 210ma, high voltage 21kv
15 minutes: b+ 372v, horizontal output current 210ma
30 minutes: b+ 374v, horizontal output current 210ma
45 minutes: b+ 372v, horizontal output current 210ma
60 minutes: b+ 371v, horizontal output current 210ma.
No significant changes.
High voltage vary with brightness and contrast. With brightness and contrast at minimum it is 21.3kv, in "normal" position with the best picture it is 21.8kv, but with contrast and brightness at maximum I get a bright and wishywashy picture. High voltage declines down to 13.9kv.
The flyback was a little warmer after 15 minutes and very warm after one hour, not hot, estimated temperature appr. 50 to 55 degrees celsius.

While testing this morning the video signal disappeared (with a delay time of one or two seconds). No sync, picture with full contrast control has few contrast, and looks inverse, like a film negative. Sound ok, color seems ok too. With no tuner input signal, a contrast rich noise (snow) is on the screen like before in such cases. I assume a defect video detector (1N60).
Testing the first video amplifier tube 6aw8: first grid and positive end of video detector 2.7v instead of 19v, kathode 8.2v instead of 22v, anode 217v instead of 148v, 2nd grid 188v instead of 170v.
Kathodes of the crt appr. 310volts. Do you know this failure?

screenshots, left with input, right without input.

I have found the defect. It was not the video detector but the A.G.C. circuit. The A.G.C. amplifier (pentode of the 6U8) was very weak (tested with Funke W19). At the anode there were only -1v. It has to be appr. -31v. With the new 6U8 (european ECF 82) the set is working properly again. -76v (??) at the anode.
The schematics for the ctc-5 are online here:
http://www.mcmlv.org/Archive/Radio/CTC5A.pdf

Eckhard. Please check c127 470 mmf.{pf} This cap might be leaking. That may be why your -31v is showing -76v. Could you please tell me the chassis number of your set. ctc5 a,b etc. The schematic on line does not match up with mine. I must have the wrong one. Also i would like to try and lower the horz current .
Ed

ED: C127 I have checked yesterday with a voltmeter, but it seems to be ok. I will test it with a capacitor tester (500v, 1000v) or will renew it the next time when I remove the chassis.
The chassis number is CTC 5E, RVA L4, 2746443.
I have checked the horizontal oscillator tube V601 (6CG7) with the Funke W19. I found a short between heating and kathode in one triode system.
Another defect appears while watching strong red colored parts of the picture. When I increase the color contrast, red peaks became black. This also happened with green peaks, but so evident. V703 (12AT7), the G-Y and R-Y demodulator, was also bad, had low emission on both systems, I have renewed it.
BTW: I have a field service manual as a pdf file (appr. 7 MByte), I can send it to you.

Eckhard. Please send your manual to [email protected]. Thank you. Also i am going to dig out my ctc5. I want to be on the same page. If C127 looks like a brown or tan square disk with color dots on it. Just replace it. Did the replacement of the 6CG7 do anything to the horz current? C114. The cap you were talking about {.1 } Bugs me.{Now that i know what it is}. I would like to take a closer look at it when i get all the correct info.
ED

If C127 looks like a brown or tan square disk with color dots on it. Just replace it.
Yes, it looks so. I havbe replaced it with a 1200v d.c. capacitor.
Did the replacement of the 6CG7 do anything to the horz current?
No. But I have some other news. There is a 1 meg resistor R105 in the schematics between R131 (to the grid of the 6CB5) and the kathode. This 1 meg resistor is missing in this set. I have added it. But now horizontal output current increases up to 230ma. I will cut R105 next time.
Voltage at grid is -22v, but has to be -40v according to the schematics. The resistance between grid chassis ground is appr. 300 - 400 K. This seems to low for me.

Vary interesting. On the manual you sent me that resistor shows R165 Someone wrote omit on it in ink. -22v is low. When i get out of work I will measure that voltage on mine and see what i get. If i recall correctly i think it was approx -35v. Also i will take a resistance reading. How is the horz sync? Do you have to turn the knob one complete turn before the horz sync goes out?
Ed

Vary interesting. On the manual you sent me that resistor shows R165 Someone wrote omit on it in ink.
Thank you very much for your support! This manual doesn't belong to this set. But the remarks are interesting, they show me the weak points of the set.
-22v is low.
While watching the meters during the lunch break, currents increased up to -29v with 200 - 210ma current. I will change R601 (470K) in the evening after work to 800K to see what an effect this has and hope to move the working point of the 6CB5 to the lower flank.
How is the horz sync? Do you have to turn the knob one complete turn before the horz sync goes out?
Yes. I can turn it one and a half turn before sync goes out.

On the manual you sent me that resistor shows R165 Someone wrote omit on it in ink. -22v is low.
The grid control of V104 (6CB5) is connected over R601 with the brightness control of the set (R101A). This is important to know.
Last night I have changed R601 (470K) with a 900K resistor, horiz. current was only 170-180ma, grid of 6CB5 has -35v to -39v. This seems OK, but brightness is overloading, at minimum brightness control there is full brightness and picture width changes enormously with brightness adjusting.
Later I analysed the horiz. oscillator section. I have already noted that R165 at the grid of 6CB5 is missing. But this was wrong assumption.
They have moved R165 on the Hor. Oscillator Assembly plate (PW 600). "Ground" of R165 is the grid of the 2nd. triode of V601 (6CG7). R165 can switched off/on by a cable link on the printed circuit. (See the blue colored part of the schematics here). I have changed the location of R165 according to the origin schematics of the manual (yellow colored part). But horiz. current exceeded 230ma and grid of 6CB5 has -20v. This was the wrong way. I have restored the origin circuits of the set (with R165 at grid of V601, blue colored part).
At the 2nd. grid of V601 I measured -40v instead of -68v (or maybe -88v, it is not clear printed in the manual). I assume that the oscillator doesn't provide a full amplidute sine wave.

I checked my field service guide and it shows the resistor connected to the grid of the 6cg7. What you have in blue. The voltage on the grid is -88 volts.

I checked my field service guide and it shows the resistor connected to the grid of the 6cg7. What you have in blue. The voltage on the grid is -88 volts.
Thank you very much for that information. Yellow is the layout of my service manuals here (only as pdf-file) and blue is the actual layout of the printed assembly here on the chassis. Note:I have copy and drawn here the blue parts into the photo of the schematics! In this ctc-5 the printed assembly PW600 was changed. This change was not documented in my service guide.
Yesterday I have tested the 6CB5. With 40 percent it was at the lower end of the scale. I have renewed it. Now I read -24v at the grid of the 6CB5, horizontal output current now is 190ma (with 114v ac) and 170mA (with 105v ac, for comparison see my posting of 02-12-2005 12:16 AM). Picture width is wider than the screen in the middle position of the width switch. Flyback is very warm, but not hot after one hour.
At first glance all seems OK now. But I think, -24v at grid of 6CB5 is still not enough. There is too much d.c. in the horizontal output unit. It should be -40v. When I get a new damper I will change it too (usually I change only horizontal output tube and damper together).
At the anode, pin 6 of the 6CG7 (horizontal oscillator, V601), I read 140v, should be 235v according to schematics. At the grid (pin 7 of 6CG7) I read -40v, should be -88v according to the reading in your field service guide. The 6CG7 seems not ok, I have found a short between heating and kathode. But kathode here is connected with the ground of the chassis.

Eckhard. please check C611 and C610 82mmf

Same thing as before. If they are a brown or tan cap with dots. {Replace them}. They won't be as large as the one in the agc.

Replacement of the caps c611-c610 and a horz realignment may help bring up the grid voltage at the 6CB5. Also give the cap off pin 7 of the 6cg7 a check. 270 mmf{pf} I can not read the # of that cap. Sorry about the goofy posts.{kid running around}
ED.

Replacement of the caps c611-c610 and a horz realignment may help bring up the grid voltage at the 6CB5. Also give the cap off pin 7 of the 6cg7 a check. 270 mmf{pf} I can not read the # of that cap. Sorry about the goofy posts.{kid running around}
ED.
No goofy posts but elementary help! Thank you for your support. These caps are the usual suspects... They were already recapped with small brown dotted ceramic caps. But I think the voltage rate seems not high enough, there are high currents in this oscillator unit. And I will change them with higher rated polypropylen caps. I'm just on the way in the city and will got to the next electronic store.

This tv set is an exercise in being patient (like most of the vintage sets..)

c611and c610 recapped, c603 too with 0.01 at 2kv. c606 (pin 7, grid of 6CG7) tested OK.
c603 is designed for 1kv. The results: -23v at grid of 6CB5 and horizontal output current 190ma after recapping. The usual suspicious are OK.

Values for the first triode of 6CG7:
!!! The reading of the test meter at the grid (pin 2) is -3v instead of -27v. !!! No sync while contacting with the testmeter - it was not possible to adjust correct synchronisation while testing.
!!! Testmeter at kathode of 6CG7 (pin 3) reads +12.6v instead of +5v. !!! Ohmmeter reads 228K between grid and ground, this seems OK.
Between grid (pin 2) and ground 1.27M, has to be 1.3M according to the manual. OK.
R608 with 156K, OK.
All capacitors on the horizontal oscillator unit are now freshly recapped.
6CG7 used and new, tested with 10ma, good.

c609 has 0.0047 instead of 0.047. The guy, who had done the recapping job before must mistaken it. (Or not?). I replaced c609 with 0.047. Now -18v at grid of 6CB5 and horizontal output current 210ma.
Without c609 I read -22v at grid of 6CB5 and horizontal output current 200ma. What are the correct data for c609?

c604 ist OK with 1000 (or 1nF).

I checked c609 on a sams manual and the manual in the computer. Both show .047. C604 is 1000pf . Checked both manuals on c604 too. Dug out the other ctc5.{ctc5e} This set is a junker I got from a buddie who is into radios. He did a re cap and ran the set without checking the horz current and the flyback overheated. He quit and gave it to me. I did a trade for some radios. This set has been a trouble since day one. Never could get the horz size to fill the picture like the other ctc5s and the current was hard to control. Here are some readings on it. AC 110. b+ 292v. Drive voltage -27v. current 205ma. hv 21kv with normal brightness. As you can see b+ and drive voltages are low. Maybe This picture may help you. Throw it on your hard drive and zoom it up. It shows how to adjust the drive voltage. I will do some more work on my set and get more voltage readings on the 6cg7. It was not happy when I turned it on. {Been many years since it was turned on} Have to check the power filters. {may be one reason why the b+ is so low} and the color looks crap. Keep picking at your set like you been doing. I am sure you will get it to work the way you want it to.
ED

It seems that the problems of horizontal output are not my problems alone. Thank you for your comment and the scanned page, which helped me to understand how the sawtooth-waveform is generated in the horizontal oscillator. This gave me the kick to check the older RCA chassis too. And what did I found? ctc4 and ct-100 had both a horizontal drive control. The remaining circuits are nearly identical. The 6CB7 have the same kathode grid voltage difference, appr. 50v. But in the ctc-4 there is an extra -29v source in the power supply only for the 6CB5. No grid voltage of the 6CB5 was used for brightness control level like in ctc-5 and no d.c. connection to the grid of the horizontal oscillator. Between c154 (ctc-4) and the grid is only one R160 with 470K to kathode. The ctc-5 seems more puzzling here.

It is interesting to know whether the ctc-4s had the same trouble with high horizontal output currents and low drive voltage at the grid of the 6CB7. Does somebody here has some experiences with the ctc-4? Can somebody here provide the schematics for the ctc-7 or ctc-9?

I have added a 0.047 cap again to c609. At kathode of 6CG7 still I read 12v. But there is very low high voltage but very high focus voltage (it's arcing). With 0.0047 the set is running "properly". Another point: c611 is critical. instead of 82 it was replaced with 100. I have replaced it with 82, and horizontal current increased a little.

The schematics of the ctc-5 are much more interconnected with other units in the set than the former models. One possibility is to insert a drive control like in the ctc-4.
The other possibility is to renew c609 with 0.047 and do a complete re-adjusting of the horizontal oscillator and output unit. On page 17 of the service manual is a method how to adjust horizontal output correctly. I have an old oscilloscope from the 1960's on the attic, which I will arouse again to life for that.

Eckhard:

Here is the horizontal section of the CTC-7. I also have the schematic for the 9. Is this the only part you wanted to see or would you like the entire schematics?

Steve

Values for the first triode of 6CG7:
!!! The reading of the test meter at the grid (pin 2) is -3v instead of -27v. !!! No sync while contacting with the testmeter - it was not possible to adjust correct synchronisation while testing.

!!! Testmeter at kathode of 6CG7 (pin 3) reads +12.6v instead of +5v. !!! Ohmmeter reads 228K between grid and ground, this seems OK.
Between grid (pin 2) and ground 1.27M, has to be 1.3M according to the manual. OK.
R608 with 156K, OK.

c609 has 0.0047 instead of 0.047. The guy, who had done the recapping job before must mistaken it. (Or not?). I replaced c609 with 0.047. Now -18v at grid of 6CB5 and horizontal output current 210ma.
Without c609 I read -22v at grid of 6CB5 and horizontal output current 200ma. What are the correct data for c609?



Are you using a vtvm or dvm to measure the voltage? A vom will load the circuit at pin 2 since it's input resistance is lower than that of the circuit you are testing. You need to use a vtvm or a digital meter or scope to check the voltage at pin 2 of the 6cg7.

R608 shows 100k not 156k.

My guide shows c609 as .047. However they have been known to be wrong.
It certenly seemed to work better with the .0047.

I do notice in the list of production changes that on some sets they omitted R602 the 1 meg resistor.
I also notice that r603 which shows 82k has been 100k 120k and 150k.

What is the plate voltage on pin 1 of the cg7? It should be 300volts? I would double check the values of the resistors in this circuit especially r 608. Resistors are cheep I might just replace them. I know it is shotgunning, but sometimes it is the only way to find something breaking down at full voltage.
I do not think I would add a drive control since none was there in the original design. On the ctc 7 they added a drive control. They lifted the ground end of r603, changed its value to 100k and connected it to .0033 cap then to 250k pot to ground. There are some other changes to the 6cg7 circuit though and it used a 6dq5 output tube.

Eckhard. I have some 6Cg7 readings withAC@110. B+292v{filters check ok} horz current 205-206 ma. horz drive -28 {changed some caps}.
pin 2. - 18v
pin 3. I get .140 dc and 20v when I switch the meter to ac {may be my meter is loading it down}
pin 6. 200v { meter loads this line down too and horz lock goes out}
pin 7. -65v
The picture dosen't look that great but you can see the bars look almost the same width. The sides of the screen are in a little with the width set to the middle. When I turn the width to high the bars look normal with an increase of 1ma on the horz current This set has a 21fjp22 in it. When my buddie had it The crt blew out when the flyback started to cook. Took out the 6bk4 and other parts too. I used this cabinet as a jig to repair my other chassis. Did not want to work around the 21axp crts.{Accident prone}. Question. Have you done any adjustments to the horz lin coil? You may want to try and put your finger on the horz lin coil to see if it gets warm or hot run the set for 15min then check it. You can take the screen off the bottom of the set and be able to put your finger on it. Also if you adjust the horz drive up. Do you get a fold over on the right side of the screen?
ED

Here is a picture of the chassis#

Thank you for all that informations. Last night I soldered new resistors on the horizontal oscillator unit. When brought the set in operating mode again I read that horizontal output current increased up to 450ma.and I switched off the set at once. At the grid of the 6CB5 I found appr. +300v. !!! When I evaluated the unit I found a (small, just invisible soldered) short between c603 and R165 (on the printed circuit). Shame about me! Full B+ at grid of 6CB5. I tested 6CB5: short between screen and grid. After repairing +5v remained at the grid of the 6CB5. Next I will remove the chassis and will operate it outside the set, only for repairing and servicing the horizontal oscillator which is not working. Hope that nothing important more is defect - never touch a running system... hahaha.

Hi folks! The ctc-5 is working again!
Beside the defect 6cb5, which I have replaced with the old 6cg5, I found a defect at the sine coil. Because of the extreme positive voltage at grid of the 6cb5 this voltage is linked to the grid of the 6cg7 too (via R165). The high current of the 6cg7 had burned out the sine coil. I found an interuption at one feet of the coil which could be soldered carefully.
For testing the chassis without crt and horizontal output unit I inserted a 4K 50watts resistor between chassis ground and +385v and used the 105v ac source to get clear +385v.
Without 385v d.v. at the horizontal output unit, I have now the correct -89v at grid of 6cg7 and -39v at grid of 6cb5 !!
Then I inserted the chassis into the set, testmeter at horizontal output current and grid of 6cb5, high voltage probe. The results: horizontal output current is 208ma, picture has full horizontal width, even in the smallest switch position.
The next readings: -37.8v at the grid of 6cb5 !! 19.25kv with the hv probe.
Some remarks: R608 has 103K. Plate voltage on pin 1 of the 6cg7 is 293v.
While renewing the resistors I found that R603 has 90K, should be 150K I have soldered a 150K resistor instead of 90K!
The other resistors had no out-of-tolerance values but some of them were crumbly, they broke while removing.
In the next days I will watch the set and its flyback how warm or hot it will be after 15, 30, 45 and 60 minutes.
Thank you for all your support and patience with me.

Mistakes, don't ya hate that. 450 ma now thats some horz drive. When I solder boards I take a small screwdriver and scrape the board around the traces and connections I worked on. Since i am a walking mistake I double check all the work I do.
and find them way to many times. When things go bad, Some times it is best to take a break from it.

So glad to hear you fixed your set. Now you can enjoy watching it. Have fun.
ED

Sounds like you have it. Nice work.

Here is the horizontal section of the CTC-7. I also have the schematic for the 9. Is this the only part you wanted to see or would you like the entire schematics?
Steve, please send me the schematics for the ctc-7 and for the ctc-9 if you have them in a digitized form.

Mistakes, don't ya hate that. 450 ma now thats some horz drive. When I solder boards I take a small screwdriver and scrape the board around the traces and connections I worked on. Since i am a walking mistake I double check all the work I do.
Usually I take a small screwdriver too and scrape the board around the traces and connections I work on. But the boards of this vintage set are very old and I thought that I would damage it by doing this. Therefore I didn't do it this time. You know the results. )-:
But I'm very happy that nothing more was destroyed and hope so. This I thank you, because I had always running the meters and I see on them that something unexpected happened very fast. If I hadn't run the meters I probably had first noticed the defect when smoke and fire came out of the chassis.

Sounds like you have it. Nice work.
Yes, it seems so. I noticed that the control range of the horizontal frequency has become smaller. When I turn the core of the horizontal hold, the brightness is getting darker or brighter, I can see that this has an effect on the horizontal output drive. In the momemt I can only display a tv program with CCIR / Gerber format, i.e. 50 cycles vertical and 15,625 cycles horizontal scanning lines. When I try to display NTSC and adjust the horizontal hold up to 15,750 cycles, horizontal frequency is disturbing by small interupts, i.e. there are misfires in the frequency with bright sparks in the middle of the screen. With 150k (R603) the 6CG7 might be overloaded. I have just the exact voltage values in the horizontal oscillator unit of the set asccording to the RCA manual.
But I have received now the complete Sams Photofact papers for the ctc-5 in jpeg-files. (Please PV me if you want it too.) In the Sams the schematics are more detailed and with different voltage values than in the RCA manual. Here are they (in brackets are the values of the RCA manual):

Pin 2 of the 6CG7: -15v (-27v)
Pin 3 of the 6CG7: 10v (5v)
Pin 6 of the 6CG7: 215v (235v)
Pin 7 of the 6CG7: -70v (-88v)

Pin 3-6 of the 6CB5: 6v (7.5v)
Pin 4-5 of the 6CB5: -30v (-40v)

One can see that the values of the Sams are lower than the RCA values. The RCA values are border values in my opinion. I would lower the resistance of R603 down to 130K or 120K to avoid overloading of the horizontal oscillator.

Nice job, yagosaga. I sow the tv on your site. I'm lucky if I ever get my hand on an "R.C.A." CTC-11.

I did it tonight. The readings of the test meters:
Start: b+ 371v, horizontal output current 210ma, high voltage 21kv ...
60 minutes: b+ 371v, horizontal output current 210ma.
No significant changes. ... The flyback was a little warmer after 15 minutes and very warm after one hour, not hot, estimated temperature appr. 50 to 55 degrees celsius.
Tonight I have checked the flyback of my PALcolor 708, the first PAL color tv set by Telefunken, which has nearly the same currents like the RCA CTC-5 (380 volts). After one hour the flyback was much more as hot as the flyback of the ctc-5. One can't touch the flyback of the PALcolor for a longer time because it is too hot! In comparison the ctc-5's flyback was really cold.
Both sets are operating with 380 volts in the horizontal output unit (anode voltage for the horizontal output tube), the ctc-5's current shouldn't extend 220 ma. The PALcolor has 260 mA horizontal output current. This indicates that the growing temperature of the flyback of the ctc-5 is in the normal range.

Today I have soldered an octal connection for the deflection yokes to operate the chassis outside the set (see photo). I tried to adjust the horizontal output current by turning the core inside the horizontal tuning coil (horizontal linearity). But I can't turn the core, it sticks. How can I loosen the core without destoying the coil? Here by us we do that with a special oil which is a mixture of oil and some kind of acid. But is this the right way for fixing such vintage devices?

Eckhard. turn the set on and run it for 45 min. The heat from the coil may break the core loose. I do not think you should put any oil on the coil. It may destroy it.

Wow I guess detweiler has a source for tubes and everythjng else in the father land. Did Europeans do Color TV later?? I know they made BW TV's earlier. No Early Color Euro TV are turning up on Eay. They must be very rare. Anyone got an idea as to make & models of early euros????????


:banana: :scratch2: :smoke:

Here are some pictures of my ctc 5 E. Two of them are off the dvd.
The other one is off the air. UHF ch 23.
I have been running the set at 114 vac 214 ma horz current for quite some time. The fly gets hot after a couple hours. But I can hold my hand on it and there is no wax dripping out of it.
The only problems I have had, Is a color tube go bad and the camera picks up lines. You can see them if u blow them up. I do not see the lines when I am watching it. Even if I am close to the screen
Sorry it took me so long. I caught some stupid flu, And I found my self A new gf.

Here are some pictures of my ctc 5 E.
Thank you for that great photos of your ctc-5. Next time, when I have some hours in one piece, I will remove the chassis and do the adjustments. It is important to know for me that your set didn't get a hot flyback with 214 ma horizontal current.
BTW: I was worried nothing to hear from you such a long time. I hope you have no aftereffects of the flu.
Meanwhile I have got two Telefunken sets (A PALcolor and a PALcromat, both from 1967) of the first hour of color tv here into working condition. But I was dissapointed about the contrast range. Both sets have a small contrast range in comparison to other brands.

Eckhard
You are welcome. I checked out your Telefunken sets on your site. The sets have a vary good picture on them. You do good work.
I had a vary high tempture and the doc gave me some pills, And I had a bad reaction to them. I am all better now. Thank you.

Eckhard. turn the set on and run it for 45 min. The heat from the coil may break the core loose. I do not think you should put any oil on the coil. It may destroy it.
Hot flyback, adjusting the core of the linearity coil for the lowest honizontal current:
This weekend I have removed the chassis again and turned the set on. The coil remained cool, even after one hour and I couldn't turn the core inside it. Then I tested different cores from other sets, inserting into the empty space of the linearity coil. With the best core I could reduce the horizontal current from 220 ma down to 180 ma. I have fixed the core with some adhesive in this position, so it could not drop down and I can adjust the core later.

Eckhard
How did you remove the stuck core and When you adjusted the current to 180 ma what did it do to the picture? I was suprised to hear that the coil was not even getting warm.

Eckhard
How did you remove the stuck core and When you adjusted the current to 180 ma what did it do to the picture? I was suprised to hear that the coil was not even getting warm.
I didn't remove the stuck core but inserted an additional core. I found that it works while trying to turn the stuck core with a screwdriver, every time when I inserted the screwdriver into the coil the horizontal current decreased. But the stuck core remained in its fixed position.
I took the second core from a coil of the flyback unit of a newer solid state tv set. The picture width didn't change but it was clear visible that the horizontal linearity changed. I have to adjust the convergence tonight again.
Beside the core into the coil, I added the horizontal drive regulation circuit of the ctc-7 schematics. With it I can adjust the overall horizontal drive and the high voltage currents at the 6BK4.
BTW: the 21AXP22A has a really strong emission on all three guns. Before three weeks Steven Kissinger visited me, together with Ingo Kubbe. Ingo has a RCA crt meter and we measured the crt. All three guns have 100 percent emission, even the red gun.

Eckhard
Man, You are one smart dude. I am going to take a look at the ctc7 schematic so I know what you are talking about. The ctc7 is one set I would like to get my hands on. When you inserted the additional core did the coil start to get warm?
The picture does look nice and bright on your set so I figured the crt was good.
But to have at 100 percent emission on the red gun is even better. On my 21axp crts the red is the weaker of the guns. The meter on the life test goes down faster than the green and blue, But there is still a lot of life in them. The ctc5e set has a 21fbp glass crt in it. The other 2 sets have a 21axp in them. One is a rebuild and the other is original.

Eckhard
Man, You are one smart dude. I am going to take a look at the ctc7 schematic so I know what you are talking about.
Here are the changes I did. The colored parts mark the additional parts. Last night I watch tv with the ctc5. The flyback remained cool after half an hour and was getting warm after one and a half hour, but not so hot that I couldn't touch it. That's ok.

Thank you.
I am going to do this to my set. I will return the horz section back the way it was and then add this to the circuit to see what happens. I may even try to add a core to the lin coil. The ctc5e has been working well, But this will work even better.

Take a soldering strip for the adding circuits. It is easy to remove later if you wish to restore the original condition. And you can easily fix the strip under the chassis.

Here are some screen shots I took of the ctc5e in march.
The set was on rabbit ears so they may not look that good.
My old dvd burned out so I bought a new one. {you get what you pay for}
The new dvd has a setting for the pal system and I thought that was cool and it puts out a great picture. When I update my pictures on this program you will see the dvd. Philips brand.