Got this at a local auction house last night. I paid $7.50 to get the set, stand and antenna. Did I get ripped off? :D There are less than 20 caps in the whole set. Not counting electros and disks. Most of the tubes are Muntz. The stamp on the CRT says that it was replaced Feb 1963. Thought it was kind of cool. This is the third Muntz in my collection. The madman is smiling! :naughty:

That was the Chassis. This is the set. 2055A is the chassis number.

polaraman

What's that cabinet made out of? From the picture it looks like crinkle painted metal...but it is probably something else

Hardly any parts but the chassis is
Copper plated?
The Madman must have bought them surplus for .50c each :lmao:

Nice clean looking chassis by the way!

The cabinet is plywood with a vinyl covering. I actually have a Sams for it. I am going up to my storage area to get it. Will have it done soon. With all those caps it may take a month or two. :D The HV works. I got a picture on it for about 10 seconds then it collapsed to the center.

polaraman

another shot.

Wow! That chassis is nearly naked! I don't think I've ever seen one so bare. Should be an easy fix. Nice looking set, BTW.

I can picture it:

"Hey, Maude...I got us a TV! You know how Bernie next door keeps rattling on about the great deal he got on a Philco? Well, you won't believe the deal I got on this set-a genuine MUNTZ! Why, Bernie's a sucker for paying for all those extra tubes!"

Well, Madman musta been doin' SOMETHING right-Didn't they survive into the color era ?-Sandy G.

Polaraman could you post the tube line-up of that set? I'm interested to know how the set worked with so few tubes. I know some used a feedback system on the horizontal output tube to eliminate the oscillator stage and used only 1 or 2 IF stages.

I've seen radio chassis with more parts.

Jim

I've seen radio chassis with more parts.

Jim

:lmao:

Anthony

Here is the same set in a different cabinet, with a tube layout. Notice that one tube is crossed out - probably a second IF stage for their "fringe area" model.

http://www.earlytelevision.org/muntz_17a3a.html

My Gawd, you coulda made about 2 dozen Muntz TVs outta the crap that's in an R-290A IF deck...all you'd need woulda been the CRTs....-Sandy G.

Here is my other Muntz TV. Model S 17P-70.

Chassis view.

It just occured to me that these sets would be perfect to watch the Muntzters on. <groan> :D

Ok, ok.

Who's got a schematic they can scan and post? I just have to see how the heck they did this one!

Here is my other Muntz TV. Model S 17P-70.

Earl outdid himself on that one.....he plum left the cabinet out! Talk about a cost savings!!!!

Anthony

saw a nice Muntz color TV set at the local thrift today. Not a roundie, but pretty old. I then saw the "sold" sign on it. oh well!!!

Both sides of the chassis of the last Muntz. I found this at a Flea market in New Orleans.

polaraman

other side. The metal plate is where the flyback is contained.

polaraman

This TV may well have been a stripped-down version of one of Muntz's fancier portables or consoles, for use in strong-signal areas (suburbs of large cities or the heart of the city itself, etc).

I've never seen a set with so few tubes/parts either, except for a few small bare-bones portables of offshore manufacture--most of which, except Zenith, have only two video IF stages. I took one look at the pic of the underchassis view of yours and thought someone had cut out much of the circuitry.

Another poster to this thread mentioned one of these Muntz sets with a tube layout chart that had one tube X'd out (one of the IF stages, IIRC). The person seemed to think this may have been the stripped version, with the standard version for local to fringe areas having at least two video IFs. If the standard model were intended for fringe areas, however, I would think it would have had a cascode RF stage in the tuner, in addition to two or more IF stages.

BTW, the front panel of your set rang a bell when I saw it. I had neighbors in my hometown in the '60s-'70s who had a 21" Muntz console, with a front panel very much like the one on yours. These TVs must have been very popular in the '50s (when my neighbors actually purchased their set), with the small model you show being popular in homes with small living rooms located in local signal areas.

I recapped the new Muntz over the last two nights. The horizontal hold will not lock. Will have to go back in and find the issue. Pictures of the completed set soon.


I finall got into a long closed Tv shop yesterday. The man dumpstered most all of his stuff.(4 loads) This happened in the last couple of weeks. I do not know what was all there. A real shame! He gave me a tube caddy full of tubes and a color bar generator. I have a color bar generator but this was like mine that quit working. His Sams collection is still there. I do not think he plans on getting rid of them. I am to call him and he is going to give me some of his old equipment. He gave up electronics business and went back to college. Earned a degree in computer info management. Got a computer job and locked the doors of the shop as it was. I tried to get in it for a long time. My timing was off this time. Too bad no telling what was there.


polaraman

Well my efforts will have to wait till next week. A check of all the resistors resulted on about 18-20 out of tolerance resistors. Some are more than double the value. The two electronics parts places are closed till Monday. Living in a small town stinks!!!!


polaraman

We have had a lot of success in replacing resistors with the Radio Shack 100 piece 1/2 watt carbon film resistor assortment.

Both sides of the chassis of the last Muntz. I found this at a Flea market in New Orleans.

polaraman
damm!
i have aa5's with more parts under the chassis. :rofl:

Earl "Mad Man" Muntz's goal was to produce a working tv with the absolute fewest parts. He seems to have succeded. Muntz tv's were very popular here in the L.A. area. Muntz's slogan: "I'd give em' away, but my wife won't let me." I met Earl in the 80's when he was manufacturing and selling projection tv's out of a wharehouse in Van Nuys, Ca.

I'm surprised the Muntz used a power transformer (at least it appears like it does)...they could have used the metal chassis along with a separate circuit ground and coupled it with a .047 cap, like in a ac/dc radio....maybe the series string tubes were more expensive than the transformer?

I'm surprised the Muntz used a power transformer (at least it appears like it does)...they could have used the metal chassis along with a separate circuit ground and coupled it with a .047 cap, like in a ac/dc radio....maybe the series string tubes were more expensive than the transformer?

Do not assume that the presense of a power transformer means an isolated chassis. Some radios and TVs used a power transformer to supply the heaters but still rectified the powerline directly. Some radios had a high voltage secondary used in concert with the powerline to feed a full wave tube rectifier. Some TVs used a voltage doubler off the powerline, some such that the chassis was hot no matter which way it was plugged in. (Line rectified to get positive 130VDC and also rectified the other way to get -130VDC (which is then designated chassis ground). Add them together and you have 260VDC to run the set on.).

Some TV design engineers I knew knew of Mad Man Muntz. "Crazy, like a fox". Back in the 50's TV was still pretty expensive compared to salaries then. So any cost cutting that could be done and still have a usable set (in high signal strength areas) would open markets to people who couldn't or didn't want to spend a lot of money on an "idiot box"....

O.K....I have seen examples of this. I have a Zenith AM/FM radio which has a plate transformer but the filaments are in series and the powerline is connected to the chassis. Also RCA CTC-71 table model 19" set...it has a power transformer for some functions but powerline connected directly to chassis. When I was about 15 I was working on one of these and saw the transfomer and thought the chassis was isolated...later found schematic and saw it was hot. Never got shocked on the ctc-71 though.

I have a Hoffman 17" TV from 1953 that uses a transformer to heat the tubes, but the DC supply is not isolated. In fact, there is a warning behind the tuner knob that the tuner shaft could be connected to one side of the line.

It is hard to believe that sets were designed so that if the tuner knob was broken, the user could be electrocuted, but that is the way it was designed.

Earl "Mad Man" Muntz's goal was to produce a working tv with the absolute fewest parts. He seems to have succeded. Muntz tv's were very popular here in the L.A. area. Muntz's slogan: "I'd give em' away, but my wife won't let me." I met Earl in the 80's when he was manufacturing and selling projection tv's out of a wharehouse in Van Nuys, Ca.

When he sold used cars he had another slogan "I buy'em retail and sell'em wholesale.....it's more fun that way!" What a hoot. At one time he was the country's largest Kaiser-Frazer dealer.

Anthony

I have a Hoffman 17" TV from 1953 that uses a transformer to heat the tubes, but the DC supply is not isolated. In fact, there is a warning behind the tuner knob that the tuner shaft could be connected to one side of the line.

It is hard to believe that sets were designed so that if the tuner knob was broken, the user could be electrocuted, but that is the way it was designed.

That sounds like a good candidate to install your own isolation transformer...have done this on sets that were a dangerous type of hot chassis design.

I rewire and polarize the plug so the chassis is ALWAYS on the neutral/gound side of the line. It's not historically correct, but a hell of a lot safer.

www.geocities.com/evilfurnaceman

I have sections on the hot chassis problem as well as the instant on thing. I welcome comments and rebuttals. If you email me with either, I'll put them on the site.

Back in the 80's, I think, we had a European set in the lab at Zenith for competitive evaluation of the design. I got elected to fire it up, and almost got literally "fired" up because it had one of those bridge rectifier circuits making the chassis hot no matter which way the plug was turned. I got my warning when the scope ground lead drew sparks.

I think I could get a picture if I could get more than 1 turn from the fine tuning knob. :thumbsdn: Well back to the work bench. :grumpy:


polaraman

I guess old tricks are the best tricks. In this 1949 MUNTZ, model M-159, the cabinet is plywood with a blonde verneer. The chassis, while not copper plated, sthill uses the same "ceeapo" layout, though with 1 lesss tube, I think. The tube lineup is:

6AG5 RF AMP
6J6 OSC/CONV
6AU6 1ST VIF
6AU6 2ND VIF
6AU6 3RD VIF
6AU6 SOUND IF
6T8 DET/AF AMP
6AQ5 AF OUT
6AU6 VID AMP
6AU6 DC REST/SYNC LIM
6SN7 V OSC/V AMP
6W4 DAMPER
1B3 HV RECT
6BG6 H OSC/H OUT
5U4 RECT

PLUS A 12LP4 CRT

The set work OK for the gutless wonder that it is.

I saw the chassis for the 1949 set in an odd antique store I was in a while back. (It was half of an auto body shop filled with furniture and junk, the other half was still an operating shop, the only indication of what was inside was a paper in the window that said "Antiques for sale".) I went back about a month later, and it was all gone. Maybe I should have bought the chassis, but there was no cabinet, though it would still be intersting to own a Muntz...

Is there a replacement for a IN60 Diode? Rat Shack only had IN4004. I will have to make a run to the parts store tomorrow.

polaraman

I guess old tricks are the best tricks. In this 1949 MUNTZ, model M-159, the cabinet is plywood with a blonde verneer. The chassis, while not copper plated, sthill uses the same "ceeapo" layout, though with 1 lesss tube, I think. The tube lineup is:

6AG5 RF AMP
6J6 OSC/CONV
6AU6 1ST VIF
6AU6 2ND VIF
6AU6 3RD VIF
6AU6 SOUND IF
6T8 DET/AF AMP
6AQ5 AF OUT
6AU6 VID AMP
6AU6 DC REST/SYNC LIM
6SN7 V OSC/V AMP
6W4 DAMPER
1B3 HV RECT
6BG6 H OSC/H OUT
5U4 RECT

PLUS A 12LP4 CRT

The set work OK for the gutless wonder that it is.

Doesn't seem too gutless to me....looks like the only features missing are a seperate horizontal oscillator tube and an agc keying stage (which may not have been in other sets of its age anyway).

Chad,
Your point is well taken. But you must admit, 15 tubes (plus CRT), is near the lower limit of cheap design, though by no means a record. A Motorola VT71 uses on 15 tubes, though it was much more common for late 40's vintage sets to 20+ tubes to do the job. I was a bit surprised when reviewing my Muntz tube lineup to see 3 video if tubes. Would have expected 2 (or less).

But I looked at a Muntz set from a mid 1950s Riders, and it STILL had 16 tubes. So maybe the Muntz reputation for cheapness is overstated...?

So.... what TV from the 1950s-60s used the LEAST number of tubes to do the job? (NOT including compactron tube sets). BTW, I don't know the answer.

Many of Muntz's sets had only two IF stages. Also, he used many fewer bypass capacitors, filters, etc. His total parts count was much lower than the major companies.

The RCA 8" portable set from the 50's uses I think only 12 tubes (not compactron) plus CRT. It has a power transformer with selenium diodes...uses a lot of 6U8's...it even uses the triode portion of a 6U8 as an audio output stage.

I have a RCA 14" portable from the 50s (see avatar) that only uses 13 tubes (no compactrons)

I was looking through a 1958 Montgomery Ward catalog and they listed a 21" console with 14 tubes including the picture tube, one diode and 2 selenium rectifiers.

These 9" GE's use 10 tubes not counting the CRT.
If you are lucky enough to find one with a good CRT it can work really well.

Hey there!! Interesting find. I found this thread searching for Muntz and TV, because I happen to have a fair-good condition, working Muntz projection TV that I would like to sell. I have to confess, I haven't done the research on it yet, so I don't have a clue how collectable it is, or it's value.

It has a tweaked 13" Sony Trinitron (man, those things were great) sitting face-up, with a box on top, that contains a mirror, to a lense that shoots onto another mirror, then the screen.

I purchased it new, about 30 years ago. It is in working order, although I haven't used it for about 20 years. It was serviced just once.

If you or anyone else knows of where/how I could research this, or, is interested in it, please feel free to contact me ([email protected]). I'm in Los Angeles.

Hi, guys. Nice, clean chassis. Anybody have a Muntz they're willing to get rid of to me? Looking for a table model set, or, two, or three. Have 0. Nice bit of looney, true information. On his most popular tv commercial of the 50's, they had a upright rect. Muntz tv sitting on the stage. The old man himself would come running out in a straight jacket, with two "attendants" chasing him. He stopped, looked at the large price tag on tv, and exclamed, "Why, my tvs are so cheap I Must be mad!". :banana: :banana: :banana: :lmao:

There was an article recently in Autoweek magazine regarding the Muntz Jet, the car Madman built in the early 50s. Not a bad car, really. Anyhow, it's demise was met when the accountants discovered that old Earl was selling the car for $1000 less than his cost to build it-so he really lived up to his commercials!