Picked up this beautiful 1960 Magnavox Console.

I've restored a few vintage tube radios in my past, but never a TV before!

Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING appears to be original and untouched.

A few tubes have been replaced with GE units, and the 5U4GB is labeled "Japan"

I'm still learning here on my end, so any helpful advice, corrections, or input is always welcome!

A quick power up shows a decent picture!

I'm re-capping this set because the C2 4 section capacitor did blow out (overheated, swelled up, and popped) - causing loss of picture. The whole process took 2 seconds, and I shut the set off while the cap popped.


Year: 1960
Model # 1MV354 R
Chassis: V30-15-00

Some photos of the unit below:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53899037037_3ee8e7f0f3_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7SDU2)PXL_20240720_162133024 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7SDU2) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53900198278_e20f3c6c3a_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7YB6q)PXL_20240720_164751604 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7YB6q) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53899948926_6380a821f5_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7XjYf)PXL_20240720_164740585 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7XjYf) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53899037007_bb41fe5719_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7SDTv)PXL_20240720_163335964 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7SDTv) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53899037012_83eeb406b3_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7SDTA)night photo (https://flic.kr/p/2q7SDTA) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53900198273_3d73663c55_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7YB6k)PXL_20240722_011714175 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7YB6k) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr
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Dude that thing is a real time capsule, all I can say is WOW! Very nice catch.

Dude that thing is a real time capsule, all I can say is WOW! Very nice catch.

Thank you! I will take good care of it.

I started with replacing all the wax/paper capacitors & large 4 section capacitor in the audio amp.

I used slightly higher rated film caps inside the chassis (factory is 400v, I used 630v)

As I understand film caps are not polarity senstive and can be installed in any direction.

Multi-section can cap was replaced with a unit from Hayseed.

Re-installed the amp and everything still worked great!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53899960726_151b03a2dc_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7XotG)PXL_20240722_210024262 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7XotG) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53900389320_2a8bcd7817_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7ZzTf)PXL_20240722_210111542 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7ZzTf) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53899960721_a9b6d5ab72_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7XotB)PXL_20240722_211318305 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7XotB) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

New film caps (yellow)
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53899049052_f6bc4ed5d2_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7SHtb)received_2499329160274717 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7SHtb) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53899049062_150aa5dfb3_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7SHtm)PXL_20240726_223320695 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7SHtm) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

I wore 15,000 volt gloves, and safety discharged the high voltage lead on the CRT.

I then removed the TV chassis for inspection.

The flyback transformer looks a little melty. Some of the wax fell off / melted off. I don't see any signs of arcing inside the metal case of it.

I contacted Moyer for a replacement / spare and had no luck.
If anyone has a good used / NOS one let me know! - I'm looking into how to re-coat the flyback?

Flyback Part#: 360779-1
Other part #s:
Merit HVO-172
Thordarson FLY-179

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53899064562_f536f1a12e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7SN5A)PXL_20240723_230154818 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7SN5A) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53899975836_3885034223_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7XsYd)PXL_20240723_232412518 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7XsYd) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

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https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53900224948_e3bda259dc_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7YK2f)PXL_20240723_232757786 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7YK2f) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53899064522_9f4e083749_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7SN4U)PXL_20240724_204340786 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7SN4U) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53899975811_2d9f58eb5e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7XsXM)PXL_20240724_204344225 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7XsXM) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53900224928_7d75f3500d_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7YK1U)PXL_20240725_011805289 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7YK1U) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53899064517_3e08b002b6_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7SN4P)PXL_20240725_011814477 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7SN4P) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

I removed each paper/wax cap and started replacing them with film caps.

Again, I heard and read the diagrams online, it seems these yellow film caps are not polarity sensitive?

Most of the caps were rated to 400v, the replacement caps I used were around 600-630v. Same uF factory rating with a tolerance +/- 10%

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53900414190_87d21a4619_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7ZHh3)PXL_20240730_204949224 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7ZHh3) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53900414195_8999bab2a9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7ZHh8)PXL_20240801_010015986 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7ZHh8) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53899984911_4bd9cd3e81_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7XvEF)PXL_20240801_010041094 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7XvEF) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

I know any normal electrolytic capacitors ARE polarity sensitive, and should never have the + terminal installed to chassis ground.

I don't understand why the diagram shows Cap #4 with + to ground.

I thought it was a typo, but the OG capacitor was installed in the same way.

So, I installed the replacement 2uF / 50v cap with the + terminal to chassis ground.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53899084457_5b4218069f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7STZB)PXL_20240803_005803186~3 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7STZB) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

OG cap:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53900425330_151b6bf9bb_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7ZLA7)received_1052973953063467 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7ZLA7) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

New cap:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53900425325_c39a3cf871_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7ZLA2)received_1249401692693103 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7ZLA2) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

I ended my day with a visit to the local Houston EPO store.

Picked up a nice looking, and working! Tube tester.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53900001091_eb977bd245_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7XAtD)PXL_20240803_141622095 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7XAtD) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53899090982_43aabf8512_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7SVW7)PXL_20240803_153220060 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7SVW7) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53900431400_b912327d1c_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7ZNoL)PXL_20240803_153226760 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7ZNoL) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53899090987_3d9a82e518_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7SVWc)PXL_20240803_163259167 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7SVWc) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53900250878_440d55d56d_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q7YSJj)PXL_20240803_164418694 (https://flic.kr/p/2q7YSJj) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

.

Very Nice TV! My Parents has a set like that - but only a tv. I spent many many nights
in front of it as a kid.... Watched till the stations went off the air at 3AM.
I would like a parts store like that near me......

.

Only lytics and IIRC Tantalums are polarized.

Your flyback is probably fine if it makes the screen light up that well. Many flys would normally drip some wax or tar (depending on what they're made of) over the course of their service life....It's also not uncommon for some of the tar to chip or peel off with age....the flyback doesn't need replaced it just needs recoating with wax, tar, corona dope or sensor safe RTV (which one is a matter of personal preference).

The positive grounded lytic probably filters a negative voltage rail. All tube gear has positive rails, but some have negative rails too. Some sets connect the can lytic capacitor negatives to a floating negative rail separate from the chassis, and if you change that bad results tend to occur. Another thing that can be confusing when you see it for the first time is a voltage doubler circuit.

Don't replace paper caps with ceramics in TVs, ceramics aren't stable enough for video and sweep applications that originally called for paper.

Only lytics and IIRC Tantalums are polarized.

.the flyback doesn't need replaced it just needs recoating with wax, tar, corona dope or sensor safe RTV (which one is a matter of personal preference).

The positive grounded lytic probably filters a negative voltage rail.

Don't replace paper caps with ceramics in TVs, ceramics aren't stable enough for video and sweep applications that originally called for paper.

Thank you for the info, I'll keep that in mind. I didn't know that about ceramics.

I'll pickup some blue sensor safe RTV from the store this weekend.

Out of the TV Chassis capacitors I replaced so far:
13 replaced with Film caps
1 with a Lyitic
2 with Mica (Hard to find value & tolerance) - Mica seems to be okay? - From what I can find online its not considered a ceramic.
.0039 uF @ 200v (https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/cornell-dubilier-knowles/CD19FD392JO3F/1918052?so=87978623&content=productdetail_US&mkt_tok=MDI4LVNYSy01MDcAAAGUn7O1ypJjCXk-v69iHPsSwAvOVoAhdRupM6tuNRdBFWiZvTAz131z93SOSxxF_0 Da_aazc6XPy57mJ3HMzY1XNKDQEGbWt91tcRmjRhEa) +/- 10% (Part of the Horizontal Hold Circuit)
.0051 uF @ 400v (https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/cornell-dubilier-knowles/CD19FD512JO3/770754?so=87978623&content=productdetail_US&mkt_tok=MDI4LVNYSy01MDcAAAGUn7O1yuUWhzMDi-Z8T1usA635y2tuSEXi_Lht-VaJITm_eQo9K06LQg70a4Ob9Ma0TDkJr68TuqNDI-WFZpx5YsC0CPALo3VaYur-Vu2s) +/- 5% (Sits between the Sync Phase inv & AGC Clamper)

Micas are fine...expensive, but fine. Those 2 caps you changed should also be available as film capacitors (I don't think I've seen 5100pF used anywhere before and haven't looked for new parts that value) and I probably would have used Panasonic or Illinois Capacitor brand red film caps in those locations for budget reasons.

After reading multiple forum posts about re-coating the flyback, i've settled on the following RTV.

Brand name: Momentive / SNAPSIL

Model RTV: RTV-133 Silicone Rubber

It's been reported good to use on flyback transformers, and carries the following traits:


It does not produce acetic Acid .

It utilizes an atomospheric moisture cure system, which releases an
alcohol vapor from the sealant surface during cure.

Dielectric Strength: 20kv per 1mm layer.


I've got a MSDS sheet listed here (https://www.momentive.com/docs/default-source/tds/snapsil/snapsil-rtv133-silicone-rubber-adhesive-sealant-tds.pdf)for more reading/ spec.

The new can caps arrived from hayseed.

I installed one, and have one left to replace.

That just about does it for all the capacitor replacements.

The old can cap that was replaced was VERY leaky and way out of spec. It was reading 80-100% higher uF ratings than listed on the can.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53904153817_fa61c87b09_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q8jSWn)PXL_20240806_020045066 (https://flic.kr/p/2q8jSWn) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53905050426_1e1f7f3f94_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q8ptt9)PXL_20240806_020145917 (https://flic.kr/p/2q8ptt9) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53905050421_2eece988f2_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q8ptt4)PXL_20240806_025948971 (https://flic.kr/p/2q8ptt4) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53905304073_ac4523f9f9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q8qLSn)PXL_20240806_030359626 (https://flic.kr/p/2q8qLSn) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

Today's the day!

Finished replacing the last multi sectional capacitor.

The old one was VERY swollen and leaking fluid.

I powered the set up slowly with a variac.

At full voltage I'm pulling 2.5 amps which seems to be normal. No abnormal sounds, no arcs.

The photo below kind of exaggerates how bright the tube filaments are glowing. Much more mellow in person.

I'm getting just a non-adjustable horizontal line across the screen.

So I'll need to do some reading as I have no clue what controls the vertical movement of this line?

**I only ran the set for about 30 seconds with the screen set to minimum brightness** - didn't want to burn the CRT.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53906892581_b1d2ed640f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q8yV5r)PXL_20240806_221113960.PORTRAIT (https://flic.kr/p/2q8yV5r) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53906892571_d8e95f4e2b_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q8yV5g)PXL_20240806_225509131 (https://flic.kr/p/2q8yV5g) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53906892566_de350b5bf2_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q8yV5b)PXL_20240806_230959278 (https://flic.kr/p/2q8yV5b) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53907333235_9dcb1a6c02_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q8Bb4V)PXL_20240806_230953330 (https://flic.kr/p/2q8Bb4V) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

The safety glass in the display makes the line look much thicker than in person.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53907333230_8cfc083603_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q8Bb4Q)PXL_20240806_225528496 (https://flic.kr/p/2q8Bb4Q) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

Upon checking both these tubes, one BARELY shows good on my tube tester.

6BF6 - Pass
Vert OSC & AGC

6DT5 - Fail? - Readings are poor.
- Labeled as VERT output.

Photo of 6DT5 test below.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53907370275_ccafe81382_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q8Bn5x)PXL_20240806_234132521 (https://flic.kr/p/2q8Bn5x) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53907370285_f3486d16b5_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q8Bn5H)PXL_20240722_010820973 (https://flic.kr/p/2q8Bn5H) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

A vertical output tube can cause the collapsed raster that you show but I would be looking more at capacitors in that section first.

A vertical output tube can cause the collapsed raster that you show but I would be looking more at capacitors in that section first.

Will do! All the small capacitors were replaced, new capacitors were checked before & after install.

I see that the old multi-section can C2 capacitor was in circuit with the Vertical output tube. And that capacitor was leaking fluid/swollen/ejecting a black foam type material?

Marginal tubes can cause issues like lack of oscillation, but usually there should be some deflection especially if you had deflection before the recap.
Recheck your work in the vertical circuit and make sure you didn't install any end of any vertical stage cap to the wrong terminal in the set. Also check B+ voltages to the vertical. If you lost a power supply rail that feeds the vertical that could cause no deflection too.

One thing you can do as a troubleshooting measure on a transformer powered set like that is connect the grid of the output tube to the heater line with a .1uF cap and see if you get some deflection.

Marginal tubes can cause issues like lack of oscillation, but usually there should be some deflection especially if you had deflection before the recap.
Recheck your work in the vertical circuit and make sure you didn't install any end of any vertical stage cap to the wrong terminal in the set. Also check B+ voltages to the vertical. If you lost a power supply rail that feeds the vertical that could cause no deflection too.

One thing you can do as a troubleshooting measure on a transformer powered set like that is connect the grid of the output tube to the heater line with a .1uF cap and see if you get some deflection.

Will check tonight an update.

I forgot to mention the whole reason I'm re-capping this set is the C2 4 section capacitor did blow out (overheated, swelled up, and popped) - causing loss of picture. The whole process took 2 seconds, and I shut the set off while the cap popped.

Looking at the diagram 6DT5 tube is connected to one section of C2.
(20uF Square) - I assume when C2 blew out, it could have damaged that tube.

I'll dig more into it tonight.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53908526916_46d01cec4e_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q8HhUC)tube (https://flic.kr/p/2q8HhUC) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

WAG...perhaps R-50 opened when C-2 blew. :scratch2:

jr

So far all replacement capacitors and old resistors are testing fine, and are in the correct locations.

I'll dig into it more tomorrow to double check as I'm getting a bit tired.

I did notice on 6DT5 that pin #8 (empty) was barely touching pin #7 wires.

Not sure if that had to do anything, I bent it out of the way.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53909630885_8bb0ed205c_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q8NX5z)PXL_20240807_223523011.PORTRAIT.ORIGINAL (https://flic.kr/p/2q8NX5z) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53909530714_cff8c538b5.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q8Nriu)image (https://flic.kr/p/2q8Nriu) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

Unlikely C2 damaged the output tube, but R50 that JR Tech mentioned could easily have been damaged if there was excessive leakage or shorts on that section of C2.

Unlikely C2 damaged the output tube, but R50 that JR Tech mentioned could easily have been damaged if there was excessive leakage or shorts on that section of C2.

I agree, so far R50 and R51 tested fine. But I may replace them just incase.

R50: Measured 232. Spec is 220
R51: Measured 328 Spec is 330

I'm really enjoying following your journey here. That set is a copy of a unit I was looking at in NY state... but was about $2000 overpriced. I'll be following along as I begin the recap of my Silvertone this weekend. What CRT does that use? It's the same size as my Silvertone. Oh, and someone said they wished they had an electronics parts hous like that nearby... same here!

I agree, so far R50 and R51 tested fine. But I may replace them just incase.

R50: Measured 232. Spec is 220
R51: Measured 328 Spec is 330

In my opinion, replacing common resistors that are in spec "just because" is a waste of time if you have operational problems that you need to get fixed, unlike certain capacitors that could be eventual failure points.
Did you know that 10% or 20% carbon composition resistors were often near the plus or minus limit of value because the production line output of a particular value covers the whole range of +/- 20% and then the 5% parts are selected, and then the 10% parts are selected from the remainder, and then the over 20% parts are culled from the final remainder? So old tube-era sets were expected to have resistors that are towards the ends of the spec and still work. The time to replace resistors "just because" is after all the real problems are fixed.

I'm really enjoying following your journey here. That set is a copy of a unit I was looking at in NY state... but was about $2000 overpriced. I'll be following along as I begin the recap of my Silvertone this weekend. What CRT does that use? It's the same size as my Silvertone. Oh, and someone said they wished they had an electronics parts hous like that nearby... same here!


Thank You!

This one uses a 24AHP4 tube.

This question of resistor tolerance reminds me of the question of whether the major brand TVs were actually better quality than second tier. In terms of component tolerance the answer is yes, since the high volume of Zenith or RCA meant that they could get parts cheaper. At Motorola, standard practice was to use 10% resistors in designs unless 5% was absolutely necessary, while Zenith used 5% as the default until analysis showed 10% would not reduce final yield. When I moved from Motorola to Zenith I was surprised to find the lab stocked with 5% resistors instead of mostly 10%.

In my opinion, replacing common resistors that are in spec "just because" is a waste of time if you have operational problems that you need to get fixed, unlike certain capacitors that could be eventual failure points.
Did you know that 10% or 20% carbon composition resistors were often near the plus or minus limit of value because the production line output of a particular value covers the whole range of +/- 20% and then the 5% parts are selected, and then the 10% parts are selected from the remainder, and then the over 20% parts are culled from the final remainder? So old tube-era sets were expected to have resistors that are towards the ends of the spec and still work. The time to replace resistors "just because" is after all the real problems are fixed.

I think I may go that route "just because" once I solve the vertical circuit problem. I'm still struggling to find the error, so far all replacement capacitors are wired correctly & test correct.

When able, I've been buying higher spec replacement parts.

For example if it called for a 20% +/- tolerance I'd replace it with a 10% tolerance part capacitor. (plus slightly higher voltage rated capacitors 400 vs 630.)

As for resistors, that does make sense!

If we look at R50 for example, it should be 220 ohm @ 1watt.

Does anyone have a recommendation of what TYPE to buy?

When looking at that spec resistor with a 1% tolerance rating I have Wirewound vs Metal Film.

If I go to 5% tolerance "Metal Oxide Film" shows up.

What's best? - I really don't mind paying extra for higher quality / better parts.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53912500063_5e836c5c8f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q94DZa)options (https://flic.kr/p/2q94DZa) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

I forgot to mention, I have a set of these coming in the mail so I can finally test voltages with the chassis installed.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53912511878_be5e5d5823_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q94HuS)tubes (https://flic.kr/p/2q94HuS) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

I general, don't replace composition resistors with wirewound, because they may affect frequency response of high frequency circuits. Replacing wirewound with wirewound is a good idea.

1% tolerance is a waste in consumer tube sets, because the variation from tube to tube in a circuit will completely swamp that out. The exception is test equipment where multiple low-gain feedback stabilized sections are used to make the gear maintain calibrated state at least for a while.

In transistor circuits, variations due to the transistor itself are usually much smaller than variations due to passive components.

5% film resistors when replacing other than wirewound are usually not a bad idea.

Checking ESR on both capacitors on the vertical circuit.

Both these new capacitors are .1uF @ 400volts.

I checked and found ESR ratings of:
C40: 16.6
C39: 16

I de-soldered them, and got the same ESR ratings, with the same .1uF.

I cant seem to find a chart/data on ESR ratings for high voltage, low uF capacitors. Are these ESR ratings bad? The uF test shows the correct uF value.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53908526916_31a564f4c4_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q8HhUC)tube (https://flic.kr/p/2q8HhUC) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

C40
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53915468935_1dfe686c5f_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q9jSwB)PXL_20240810_233255415 (https://flic.kr/p/2q9jSwB) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

C39
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53915019041_610d62445d_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q9hyMP)PXL_20240810_233312649 (https://flic.kr/p/2q9hyMP) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

According to this page
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/measuring-esr-of-small-capacitors/
your ESR meter may be reading the capacitive reactance of small capacitors in series with the resistance.

In fact, if you plug in 0.1 uf and the frequency of your tester (100 kHz) on this page
https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/capacitive-reactance
You get 15.9 ohms

square root [16^2 - 15.9^2] = 1.79 ohms ESR

I rarely test new film capacitors, but when I do I use my Heathkit C3 which will tell me if they're going open or if they leak at full rated voltage.
I only use my ESR tester on solid state stuff.

For high voltage low current circuits, the leakage is the most important parameter. For high current low voltage PSU's, the ESR can play a important role.

For high voltage low current circuits, the leakage is the most important parameter. For high current low voltage PSU's, the ESR can play a important role.

I rarely test new film capacitors, but when I do I use my Heathkit C3 which will tell me if they're going open or if they leak at full rated voltage.
I only use my ESR tester on solid state stuff.

Exactly, for what it's worth I agree, it is the way to do it.

Picked up a 1950's (i think) antenna for the TV, matches well.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53920383667_a8ed622418_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q9L4vn)PXL_20240813_203405669 (https://flic.kr/p/2q9L4vn) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53920383662_fab5b14d64_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q9L4vh)PXL_20240813_203410786 (https://flic.kr/p/2q9L4vh) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

Picked up a 1950's (i think) antenna for the TV, matches well.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53920383667_a8ed622418_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q9L4vn)PXL_20240813_203405669 (https://flic.kr/p/2q9L4vn) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53920383662_fab5b14d64_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q9L4vh)PXL_20240813_203410786 (https://flic.kr/p/2q9L4vh) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

Great!

I have the same exact rabbit ears, my parents got them when they were married in 1959. I still use them on my 1982 Zenith.

I've got a set too. They were too cool to pass up. Have yet to hook them up and see if they paint the corners...

Still digging into the vertical issue. Removed the chassis, triple checked all capacitors, re-did all the solder points to be safe.

Swapped out both Vert OSC (6BF6) and Vert Output (6DT5) with some good NOS tubes.

Replaced R50 with a new resistor.

Still got vertical collapse. - I guess I could work backwards from 6DT5?

Set the line voltage to 117v AC.

When checking 6DT5 I got the following voltages:


Pin# 1 280.1v (spec is 275)
Pin# 7 20.52v (spec is 20v)



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53930254775_a3500f843d_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2qaCDQT)PXL_20240818_023303382 (https://flic.kr/p/2qaCDQT) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53929803851_841102ee4b_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2qaAkNk)PXL_20240818_023131537 (https://flic.kr/p/2qaAkNk) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53929810421_dffc8009cb_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2qaAnKB)PXL_20240818_023143176 (https://flic.kr/p/2qaAnKB) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53908526916_31a564f4c4_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q8HhUC)tube (https://flic.kr/p/2q8HhUC) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53928898907_1e2e32d6f8_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2qavGMR)PXL_20240818_023948540 (https://flic.kr/p/2qavGMR) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53928898917_ce766e4e87_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2qavGN2)PXL_20240818_024008008 (https://flic.kr/p/2qavGN2) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53929803836_beff93f8cb_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2qaAkN5)PXL_20240818_023359388 (https://flic.kr/p/2qaAkN5) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

Still digging into the vertical issue. Removed the chassis, triple checked all capacitors, re-did all the solder points to be safe.

Swapped out both Vert OSC (6BF6) and Vert Output (6DT5) with some good NOS tubes.

Replaced R50 with a new resistor.

Still got vertical collapse. - I guess I could work backwards from 6DT5?

Set the line voltage to 117v AC.

When checking 6DT5 I got the following voltages:


Pin# 1 280.1v (spec is 275)
Pin# 7 20.52v (spec is 20v)





Those voltages are completely normal. With line voltage set to the same 117V as Sam's anything within +/-25% is normal (in stages like vertical or CRT gun grid/cathode where the bias is controlled by potentiometers the normal range can be much larger than 25% and it's sometimes wise to adjust the relevant pots to make sure they can get the voltage that sam's says should be there.

If all the vertical voltages measure normal you may want to check the output transformer, and yoke and their connections to each other.

Those voltages are completely normal. With line voltage set to the same 117V as Sam's anything within +/-25% is normal (in stages like vertical or CRT gun grid/cathode where the bias is controlled by potentiometers the normal range can be much larger than 25% and it's sometimes wise to adjust the relevant pots to make sure they can get the voltage that sam's says should be there.

If all the vertical voltages measure normal you may want to check the output transformer, and yoke and their connections to each other.

I'll check those tonight. I did find a low voltage PIN#7 of the 6BF6 tube.
(Vert Mult / AGC clamper)

I believe pin#7 is the output that feeds into 6DT5 Tube?

I was able to vary the voltage of pin#7 between 7.47 to 11v, but no higher than 11. (using the vertical adjustment pot)

Voltage spec: 25v
Reading: 7.47-to-11v

Some good news:
Im getting clear audio out from the TV- was broadcasting signal on channel #7 with my Blonder Tongue.

Checked the Yoke- Ohm reads are within spec.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53908526916_31a564f4c4_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q8HhUC)tube (https://flic.kr/p/2q8HhUC) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

.

Good Morning - Just a quick note - Things to check - On pin 3-6 of V10 the vert output,
put your finger or a DVM probe on it with nothing attached and see if the line on the
screen moves up or down, or if you can put any 60Hz signal on it like from a Signal
gen, or radio speaker on it there should be deflection. If none - then you should
check for any voltage on the plate of V10, since there is no deflection, it should
be completely safe, looking for about 280V. If nothing, track through the T2
to see if you have it or if T2 has open windings. If you get deflection when
you touch G1 of V10, then you have to go Back into the Osc, Don't forget
to look at the feedback loop through R45, & 46. Also, most important -
Since this tv worked before you replaced parts, keep an open mind to
the possibility that you wired something wrong, My money is on a
mistake in wiring or part placement. Also, see that 25ma current
reading for the cathode of V10, that is often printed where they
tell you not to measure the plate voltage, You can lift one side
of R51 and check the current, to see if the tubie is conducting.
Also be ready to check voltages on V9 as well.... Also -
The Vert Hold has a plug & socket in the schematic - If you
have this on your tv be sure to check that if you had to
undo it to work on the set.... Good Luck!

.

You don't have to lift anything to see if the vert. out is conducting. Just look for voltage on the cathode; if there's voltage, the tube is conducting. And it'll vary with turning the v linearity pot (no matter whether sweep is occuring or not).

.

Good Morning - Just a quick note - Things to check - On pin 3-6 of V10 the vert output,
put your finger or a DVM probe on it with nothing attached and see if the line on the
screen moves up or down, or if you can put any 60Hz signal on it like from a Signal
gen, or radio speaker on it there should be deflection. If none - then you should
check for any voltage on the plate of V10, since there is no deflection, it should
be completely safe, looking for about 280V. If nothing, track through the T2
to see if you have it or if T2 has open windings. If you get deflection when
you touch G1 of V10, then you have to go Back into the Osc, Don't forget
to look at the feedback loop through R45, & 46.

Also, most important -
Since this tv worked before you replaced parts, keep an open mind to
the possibility that you wired something wrong, My money is on a
mistake in wiring or part placement. Also, see that 25ma current
reading for the cathode of V10, that is often printed where they
tell you not to measure the plate voltage, You can lift one side
of R51 and check the current, to see if the tubie is conducting.
Also be ready to check voltages on V9 as well.... Also -
The Vert Hold has a plug & socket in the schematic - If you
have this on your tv be sure to check that if you had to
undo it to work on the set.... Good Luck!

.

Will do! - I'll check these tonight.

I'm always open to me making a mistake, perhaps I just haven't seen it yet. I did replace capacitors one at a time, while using tape to mark the wire connections (as to not lose track of the positions when replacing)

C2 did blow up - which is the reason why I replaced ALL capacitors at the same time, I probably should have replaced JUST C2 first and done testing.

I assume when I touch pins 3-through-6 of V10 it will cause the output plate of V10 to cause vertical deflection?

Why does the schematic say "DO NOT MEASURE" the plate output / Pin# 9 of V10? - The voltage doesn't seem THAT high?

Will do! - I'll check these tonight.

I'm always open to me making a mistake, perhaps I just haven't seen it yet. I did replace capacitors one at a time, while using tape to mark the wire connections (as to not lose track of the positions when replacing)

C2 did blow up - which is the reason why I replaced ALL capacitors at the same time, I probably should have replaced JUST C2 first and done testing.

I assume when I touch pins 3-through-6 of V10 it will cause the output plate of V10 to cause vertical deflection?

Why does the schematic say "DO NOT MEASURE" the plate output / Pin# 9 of V10? - The voltage doesn't seem THAT high?

The DC voltage yes, will not that high. But, with deflection working, the retrace pulse/period produces a high amplitude spike in the primary, sometimes near 1.6kV. This for every frame, aka. 60 times per second of these pulses (for vertical stage; 50 times for a lot of another countries).

Okay I think I found it. I did make a wiring mistake!

C35 was connected to the wrong pin of V9 / 6BF6.

I must have been distracted, but its clearly on the wrong terminal.

Check the before/after photos below.

C35 was replaced with a MICA cap. .0051 uF @ 500v

I will remove the capacitor, check it, and reinstall (if okay) on the correct pin.

I wonder if this could have caused any harm?


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53933685619_8d2ebd783c_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2qaWeHn)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2qaWeHn) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53908526916_31a564f4c4_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2q8HhUC)tube (https://flic.kr/p/2q8HhUC) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

Perhaps not, is worth to testing the TV now.

.

"I assume when I touch pins 3-through-6 of V10 it will cause the output plate of
V10 to cause vertical deflection? "

The Schematic says pin 3-6 which is usually pins 3&6 not 3,4,5,6 as in
3-through-6 you can see some pins to to heaters etc. Other stuff....


Also -

" The DC voltage yes, will not that high. But, with deflection working, the retrace
pulse/period produces a high amplitude spike in the primary, sometimes near
1.6kV. This for every frame, aka. 60 times per second of these pulses
(for vertical stage; 50 times for a lot of another countries). " Correct.

As long as the circuit is not functioning, no deflection, you can check the plate,
in a vert. or horiz. output circuit. And that is why in a case where "Do Not
Measure" is printed they often give a cathode current number you can
check. And proper way to check is to put the current meter in the circuit
by removing one leg of a resistor, or whatever runs from cathode
to ground. This is best practice. In this circuit you are also given
a voltage you can measure, but there is a reason they give you
current, and you should do it right, it can show other problems
in an otherwise working "looking" circuit. Too high a current
often means bias trouble, for example.


Cool that you found a possible cause for this trouble!

Good Night.


.

And we got vertical!

It was just a wiring mistake on C35.

I still need to fine-tune everything, but its working well.

I was told not to run the vertical width to "fill the picture tube" as that's overdriving the unit and hard on the parts?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53935992990_2e393d0af4_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2qb94BC)PXL_20240819_215644784 (https://flic.kr/p/2qb94BC) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

I believe that the correct size fill and linearity for the vertical will not over stress the parts.
But, the image show here are not fill in horizontal direction... the image feed have the lateral bars, or the horizontal needs some adjustment?

EDITED: changed the question.

I believe that the correct size fill and linearity for the vertical will not over stress the parts.
But, the image show here are not fill in horizontal direction... the image feed have the lateral bars, or the horizontal needs some adjustment?

EDITED: changed the question.

Yes, the image shown does contain lateral bars. I will broadcast some correct 4:3 images tonight to fine tune the horizontal and vert.

As a general rule the proper setup is to have the screen just filled (maybe 1" of overscan) in both axes at the lowest line voltage you would run the set at. Some sets don't give width control so you get what you get or have to improvise.
Shango tends to give that vertical underscan advice but it's mostly chicken shit because 1.) no TV maker or repair shop would EVER do that back when these were in service, 2.) it doesn't allow proper geometry unless you can also adjust for matching horizontal underscan.
The one place vertical underscan is somewhat advisable in consumer TVs is on 60s color Zeniths...those Zeniths tend to short between secondaries from insufficient insulation and on those sets underscan lowers the risk. Someone is rebuilding those transformers now so it's not that big of a deal anymore.

I need to get a proper antenna for my Blonder Tongue, but so far I got the TV adjusted pretty good I think.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53936971938_8d1edc5df2_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2qbe5C3)PXL_20240820_215721494 (https://flic.kr/p/2qbe5C3) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53937175030_8d1d68464c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2qbf7ZC)PXL_20240820_210946464 (https://flic.kr/p/2qbf7ZC) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

Hello fellow "big mamma" Maggie 24AHP4.owner! :D:banana:

Hello fellow "big mamma" Maggie 24AHP4.owner! :D:banana:


Oh! We're these tubes considered big in the early 1960's?

Oh! We're these tubes considered big in the early 1960's?

They were one of the biggest BW tubes ever made, however, they don't last very long, cause they tend to push the gun rather hard, mine works, but is on the weaker side.

I got it all for free, as it was just a chassis and CRT from a set that someone made into a pet bed, It's a newer one than yours, but still uses a 24AHP4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvMHr4-WO8s

I did end up re-coating the missing wax area of my flyback with silicone.

Everything worked great, I gave it 48+ hours to cure.

Silicone info is listed below.

Also picked up a spare NOS flyback to keep as a spare.

I think I need to re-cap the power supply to my Blonder Tongue, I'm getting a rolling bar on the screen. Rolls from bottom to the top. This occurs on both my CRT TV's.

Brand name: Momentive / SNAPSIL

Model RTV: RTV-133 Silicone Rubber

It's been reported good to use on flyback transformers, and carries the following traits:


It does not produce acetic Acid .

It utilizes an atomospheric moisture cure system, which releases an
alcohol vapor from the sealant surface during cure.

Dielectric Strength: 20kv per 1mm layer.


I've got a MSDS sheet listed here (https://www.momentive.com/docs/default-source/tds/snapsil/snapsil-rtv133-silicone-rubber-adhesive-sealant-tds.pdf)for more reading/ spec.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53937812611_cec30e8855_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2qbiowp)PXL_20240815_205641719 (https://flic.kr/p/2qbiowp) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53938063298_942604c425_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2qbjF3A)PXL_20240820_230248590 (https://flic.kr/p/2qbjF3A) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

Judjung by the photos, it seems that the CRT is very healthy, low hours probably, and alignment seems to be excellent, due to good image details. Excellent score! :banana:

I left a sticker inside the unit with my phone # and a QR code that takes you directly to this forum thread.

Quick video link of the unit running: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaZr0C5sDT8


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53939417319_bd246e7685_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2qbrBxM)PXL_20240822_002306602~2 (1) (https://flic.kr/p/2qbrBxM) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

I left a sticker inside the unit with my phone # and a QR code that takes you directly to this forum thread.
...


Good move, that takes all of the question out of the future use of the set.

They were one of the biggest BW tubes ever made, however, they don't last very long, cause they tend to push the gun rather hard, mine works, but is on the weaker side.

I got it all for free, as it was just a chassis and CRT from a set that someone made into a pet bed, It's a newer one than yours, but still uses a 24AHP4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvMHr4-WO8s

Yup. Until this spring you would have had my then biggest direct view set (23" Setchell Carlson School TV) beat. I believe there were 25, 27 and 30" built too, but the 30" Dumont Royal Sovereign was the biggest monochrome direct view ever. The Dumont is stupidly rare and heavy and on top of that it's hard to find one with a good CRT let alone a spare....So in spring I jumped on a 27" Muntz that the ETF had with a strong CRT in it. I think I paid something like $5 (they'd been trying to sell it for over a year) and unlike the Dumont I can actually move the damn thing myself.
It isn't my biggest monochrome picture though....at 5' diagonal the picture my Norelco protelgram duo-vue projector can throw onto a screen is fairly impressive...as well as dim.




I think I need to re-cap the power supply to my Blonder Tongue, I'm getting a rolling bar on the screen. Rolls from bottom to the top. This occurs on both my CRT TV's.



Yeah, better than half my BTs have new caps...One of them had its bridge rectifier die during a lightning storm (which is weird because it and it's antenna are in the basement and there was a ton of other stuff plugged in and running that wasn't harmed).
Granted that hum bar isn't always caused by caps.... sometimes they're happier (read don't develop bars from hum loops) being ungrounded or even isolated from the grid...my main BT rack is powered by an isolation transformer and a PC in that rack is plugged in to an adapter that ungrounds the cord.

.......................................



Yeah, better than half my BTs have new caps...One of them had its bridge rectifier die during a lightning storm (which is weird because it and it's antenna are in the basement and there was a ton of other stuff plugged in and running that wasn't harmed).
............................................

Sometimes I see these almost impossible to describe lightning discharge hitting only one device, sometimes one of the last of the chain... oh, these kV pulse propagations...

TV is still running great!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54187218509_cee7936e43_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2qykEd6)PXL_20241204_013652562 (https://flic.kr/p/2qykEd6) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr

Lost control of my contrast setting.

Upon inspection it was just the cable connection, ended up stripping the wire back and re-soldering.

All good!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54451724278_aaa805edbd_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2qXHjyo)PXL_20250413_010749060 (https://flic.kr/p/2qXHjyo) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54450622052_2c75f21c15_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2qXBEUu)PXL_20250413_012026982 (https://flic.kr/p/2qXBEUu) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/),

Felt right to watch the recent Artemis launch on the Magnavox.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/55185847364_cbcf62ec4c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2s5zTLY)PXL_20260401_223348966 (https://flic.kr/p/2s5zTLY) by Thomas Duncan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201162343@N02/), on Flickr