Just got this set in a lot of 4. This one was a huge mess. Got it cleaned up but the plug is cut off at the end of the cord which isn't a problem but I'm hesitant on testing till I know more about the flyback on it. There is a small bulge on top with some cracking and one edge is warped a little. Will it hurt to try or should I replace that 1st? I've circled the areas.

https://iili.io/HShUV2V.jpg (https://freeimage.host/)

https://iili.io/HShUWYB.jpg (https://freeimage.host/)

https://iili.io/HShUGrQ.jpg (https://freeimage.host/)

https://iili.io/HShU1Bj.jpg (https://freeimage.host/)

https://iili.io/HShUlLb.jpg (https://freeimage.host/)

https://iili.io/HShUchu.jpg (https://freeimage.host/)

https://iili.io/HShUEEx.jpg (https://freeimage.host/)

You gotta work on the pix sizing ! Dont feel bad, I wouldnt know how to
do it either !! I would ask my sons but I would forget in a few days.
Anyhows
It looks like an in line jug. Thats good as the earlier GT matic / Super Set
deltas had a VERY short life. If it were me I would just fire it
up with a variac. You need to confirm the CRT is good BEFORE you
put time & $$$ into it. Post some sized pix of the area also first. All
I can see is what looks like a chunk out of the FBT.

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

I know. I never had trouble till now. Not sure what's going on but I'll getting better ones.

Ok, I think I got it. Phone has a resizing option but I never had to use it.

The small thing in the first pix looks like a spark gap. 2nd pix
looks like a tripler that is cracked open & NFG. Dont run it.
After the week end I will see if I have a manual & give more info.

Zeno

The small thing in the first pix looks like a spark gap. 2nd pix
looks like a tripler that is cracked open & NFG. Dont run it.
After the week end I will see if I have a manual & give more info.

Zeno

Ok, I'll wait 👍

Those were made from about '75 until '80, when they were replaced by the E32 single-board chassis with an IHVT.

On your set, triplers were a high-failure part, as well as the filter capacitor and bad solder connections. I ran into a few bad yokes and a number of weak tubes on these. When they're right, they have a nice picture. I think the tripler on these is an NTE523A.

Those were made from about '75 until '80, when they were replaced by the E32 single-board chassis with an IHVT.

On your set, triplers were a high-failure part, as well as the filter capacitor and bad solder connections. I ran into a few bad yokes and a number of weak tubes on these. When they're right, they have a nice picture. I think the tripler on these is an NTE523A.
Looks like it. $25. I'll try to order that soon.

Also, what is the filter cap on this? May as well replace with the tripler.

New tripler arrived today. Will put in today or tomorrow and update.

Put new tripler in and tested. Red breaker on back popped out tripped where do I look now?

Put new tripler in and tested. Red breaker on back popped out tripped where do I look now?

Did you check the horiz output transistor for Collector to Emitter short? If the tripler is punctured it would have arced out and likely damaged the output and possibly the LV regulator.

John

Did you check the horiz output transistor for Collector to Emitter short? If the tripler is punctured it would have arced out and likely damaged the output and possibly the LV regulator.

John

No I didn't. Can u point those out to me?

No I didn't. Can u point those out to me?

The horiz output will be located on the right side of the chassis near the tripler. One of your pictures shows a metal TO-3 (top hat) transistor held to the side of the chassis near the yellow label with two 1/4" screws. If it's on the right side of the chassis, that's the output (if it's on the left, it's the reg). You can check from the metal body to the chassis ground side rail. It should read open (over 100K ohms). If it reads short (a few ohms or less), the transistor is shorted.

The low voltage regulator would be located on the left side looking from the back. That also might be a TO-3 metal transistor mounted like the horiz output is. That transistor won't be shorted to the ground panel but you can test it by removing it from the chassis and checking resistance between the metal body and the two terminals.

John

The horiz output will be located on the right side of the chassis near the tripler. One of your pictures shows a metal TO-3 (top hat) transistor held to the side of the chassis near the yellow label with two 1/4" screws. If it's on the right side of the chassis, that's the output (if it's on the left, it's the reg). You can check from the metal body to the chassis ground side rail. It should read open (over 100K ohms). If it reads short (a few ohms or less), the transistor is shorted.

The low voltage regulator would be located on the left side looking from the back. That also might be a TO-3 metal transistor mounted like the horiz output is. That transistor won't be shorted to the ground panel but you can test it by removing it from the chassis and checking resistance between the metal body and the two terminals.

John

Ok I'll check and let u know.

Ok, I set my meter to 200k and tried the one on the right by the trip and I get nothing. 00.0 and I took the one on the left out and nothing on that one either. Hope I did it right. I have a pic of the one from the left.

One thing I learned on an SCR sweep RCA is if the breaker is tripping and you want to know if it's the trippler or not just unhook the flyback output from the trippler input and stick the lead in a jar so it won't arc. If the breaker won't trip like that the trippler is bad, if still trips you have other problems....
You can do the same test to check the trippler if the set isn't tripping the break, but isn't making HV... Only you want to monitor Boost voltage. If it's very low with the trippler and normal or high without the trippler loading it then the trippler is bad.

One thing I learned on an SCR sweep RCA is if the breaker is tripping and you want to know if it's the trippler or not just unhook the flyback output from the trippler input and stick the lead in a jar so it won't arc. If the breaker won't trip like that the trippler is bad, if still trips you have other problems....
You can do the same test to check the trippler if the set isn't tripping the break, but isn't making HV... Only you want to monitor Boost voltage. If it's very low with the trippler and normal or high without the trippler loading it then the trippler is bad.

This tripler is new from DigiKey

Ok, I set my meter to 200k and tried the one on the right by the trip and I get nothing. 00.0 and I took the one on the left out and nothing on that one either. Hope I did it right. I have a pic of the one from the left.

Let's be a bit clearer here - a reading of 00.0 on most DMMs means a dead short (you can replicate that same reading by shorting your leads together).

I've seen more than a thousand shorted horiz outputs in my life, and they all will short "hard", so if your meter isn't an autoranging type, put it on 200 ohms or 2K if that's all your meter has.

If the transistor is not shorted, then it will read the same at 200 (or 2K) as if you didn't connect the leads at all, figure something like OL on the display (means overload).

So if your meter is reading OL with the leads off and 00.0 with the leads on the horiz out, the output is shorted.

If your meter reads 00.0 with the leads open, the meter is bad.

John

Ok I set at 200 and I show with leads not touching, then leads touching, and then leads on output and chassis.

Very low, for sure a damage on HO transistor (more probably) or something very close (damper diode, capacitor, PSU)

Ok I set at 200 and I show with leads not touching, then leads touching, and then leads on output and chassis.

Something is shorted, although 11 ohms is an odd reading (most horiz outputs short to ground at an ohm or under), but the transistor remains the most likely cause, particularly with a punctured splitter spitting high voltage around.

Remove the transistor's 1/4" screws and remove the transistor by wiggling and pulling upward. Careful if you have to pry because there's a thin mica insulator between the transistor and the frame that can be damaged.

With the transistor out, check the resistance from the metal case of the transistor body to either of the two leads. If you're getting that 11 ohm or under reading, the transistor is bad. If the transistor reads the same as open leads, the problem is elsewhere.

In any case, an 11 ohm reading from the collector case of that transistor to the ground frame means the breaker will trip immediately.

John

EDIT: your DMM doesn't use the Fluke style "OL" to indicate an infinitely high (open) value but uses a "1" two places away from the decimal to indicate an "open" condition. Same thing, different display method.

Ah, ok, I'll check and update.

I'm not getting anything with it out. Just the #1 at far left.

Your meter has a diode / transistor test, the diode symbol.
Look up that function in the manual, too long to type out.
OR look for some tubes teaching it. You will be using it !

Zeno:smoke:

I'm not getting anything with it out. Just the #1 at far left.

If the transistor is reading open with it out of circuit, then something else is wrong. If this has a separate damper diode, the diode would be the next suspect because of the punctured tripler. Note that some transistors had the damper diode built in. Yours being an earlier SS design probably has a separate damper behind the horiz output socket (most) or on the main board close to the horiz output.

Is there a schematic on-line? (I scrapped all my paper schematics and most of my SAMS about 15 years ago)

John

I'll see what I can find.

I can't find a schematic and I have no idea where the damper is on this 😞

The diode damper probably will be the largest cased diode near the flyback, connected at least to some pin of it, sometimes in parallel with HO transistor, and other side (cathode) generally is ground on simple TV's (if is separate, like John said).
Of course, for some TV's, other or others diodes can be associated to primary winding, but is more common on newer TV's (like supply for RGB video output). So is good to check diodes nearby the flyback to be sure.
Another potential part suspect can be the pulse capacitor, the one that tune the flyback pulse, and is rated at least with 1600V (some nF), also near the flyback, and probably at same line with HO transistor. Polypropilene on newer TV''s, and perhaps something-with-oil on older TV's. Normally this fails open, but to be sure, is good to check.

I can't find a schematic and I have no idea where the damper is on this 😞

It might be right on the back side of the socket of the horiz output. It can either be a black barrel body or a grey round ball - either will have fairly thick leads.

Electrically, the cathode of the diode will be connected to the collector (metal case) of the horiz output and the anode connected to the emitter of the transistor (ground). If you look behind the socket, it should be there.

If it's not, trace the wire from the collector (screws are collector) to the main board to locate the diode.

Clip or unsolder one end, reinstall the horiz output, and see if the short to the case is gone. If it is, the diode is shorted but do NOT run the TV without the damper connected or you will immediately destroy your horiz output which right now is still good.

John

Ok I'll check later today and update

I have the console version of this TV, mine still works yet suprisingly enough but its missing the "lock" for the front panel that opens up for the user screen adjustments so the user screen adjustment door is open all the time, which is also where the speaker is so the audio doesn't sound very good because the cover isn't properly baffling the speaker.

Can't find anything in that mess. So much going on in there. I took a few shots hoping someone recognizes something. I see the back side of the output, screws and wires running down.

Yes, seems to be difficult; too many wires and so on. The solution is to follow each flyback wire, and see what ones ends at diodes, to measure them.
Not seem to have any diode in the HO transistor socket.
I sse some relatively fat diode near the socket with "24" number on it. Is impossible to know if is relative to flyback, without following the flyback wires.
Sometimes, in the hurry, I simply measure every diode near flyback at time I'm worked with TV's (is faster anyway).
The suspects are removed and measured externally to be sure.
I see one small diode in parallel with a small capacitor in one photo. These one seems to be improbable, but anyway, is good to check on the DMM diode scale.

Other thing, since manufacturers not want to use 2 times same funcion component, is good to measure on diode scale the HO transistor you removed from TV. Measure from collector to emmiter. In one side, basicaaly with negative (black) proble connected to collector (case), and negative to emmiter, the DMM will measure something between 0.5 and 0.8, and, for another side (reverse, with red onde connected to case), will measure OL. If measures this manner, the damper diode is internal/integrated to transistor case.

I have the console version of this TV, mine still works yet suprisingly enough but its missing the "lock" for the front panel that opens up for the user screen adjustments so the user screen adjustment door is open all the time, which is also where the speaker is so the audio doesn't sound very good because the cover isn't properly baffling the speaker.

I have same problem with my 17" Toshiba from 1987; the controls are exposed (the "lock" protuding part broken). I need to solve it before the grandchildrens visits here ;)

Can't find anything in that mess. So much going on in there. I took a few shots hoping someone recognizes something. I see the back side of the output, screws and wires running down.

There are three wires on the back of the horiz out socket. The wire that's attached to one of the screw posts is the collector. Follow that down to the board where it will be connected to the damper diode assuming the TV has an external one.

What is the part number of the horiz output?


John

I can't find any numbers on that output. Maybe if we could figure out which one this chassis is designed to use.

I can't find any numbers on that output. Maybe if we could figure out which one this chassis is designed to use.

I scrapped all of my GTE/Philips schematics years ago along with most of my SAMS of those years.

If anyone has any SAMS still, it's in 1751 folder 2.

John

Sams 1751-2 shows the damper diode as "SC448". It's on the circuit board between the yoke socket and the focus control area. It's between the horizontal linearity coil, L470, and a large cap labeled C448. Sorry, can't post pictures.

And I just remembered the diagram is on the inside of the back cover showing horiz output is Q402.

So I'm testing sc448 with the same setting? Does output need to be installed during test?

Probably, it will measure low like the first measurement, since this diode can be in same circuit of the HOT.
Measure using the diode scale on DMM; then, you can desolder it, and check if the low value remains on the part, or in the circuit board (at same PCB location).

So I'm testing sc448 with the same setting? Does output need to be installed during test?

Yes on the same DMM setting (200 ohm scale), no on does it need to be installed, but it doesn't matter either way. You've confirmed the horiz output is not shorted, so on a resistance test of the diode, it will read "open" as if it's not even there.

The damper should also read open on your meter for resistance the way the horiz output did if it's good, or at least 100K ohms in circuit which is essentially open for this discussion.

If the diode reads short (I think you had something like an 8 ohm short to ground), then unsolder one end of the diode or remove it completely and test again. If it's reading that same 8 ohms out of circuit, then the diode is shorted and you need to replace it. If the diode reads open, something else is shorting the B+ to ground. Reinstall the diode and horiz out and we'll go further (retrace cap would be next).

John

Ok, hopefully today or tomorrow ill find out.

Near the yoke socket, I found two 448. I can't find anything beginning with SC.

The one with arrowlike symbol ---|>|--- is the diode; the another 448 with ---||--- symbol nearby is a capacitor.

Ok, on component side, I found SC448. All I see are wires all around it. Is it pointing to the big brown thing below?

Ok, on component side, I found SC448. All I see are wires all around it. Is it pointing to the big brown thing below?

The brown thing is a resistor. The damper diode will be a black epoxy affair or a small round glass/epoxy type ball.

If the holes for the damper diode are currently not populated with any part, then they may have moved to an internal damper on the horiz output in a later production, but that would seem unlikely.

Unsolder the component in the 448 diode (arrow) slot and measure that (and provide a pic)

John

Ok I think I found it. It was under the brown thing lol. Do I in hook one leg or both?

To check for short ( damper) just one leg has to be lifted.
DO NOT power up set with damper out.
Hoz outs & dampers are dead shorted or OK.
In all my years only saw one hoz out opened with the exception
of Sony SG-### devices.
There is an easy process on most early SS sets. You need a manual
and so would we to walk it through at this level.

GL
Zeno

Ok I think I found it. It was under the brown thing lol. Do I in hook one leg or both?

Yep, that's it. This one uses the glass epoxy ball type. Follow Zeno's advice and let us know if it's shorted.

John

Ok I pulled one leg loose and put a lead on each end and got what you see on meter at that setting.

Ok I pulled one leg loose and put a lead on each end and got what you see on meter at that setting.

I believe that means the diode is not shorted on your meter.

Install the diode back into the circuit, remount the horiz output, and retest the metal case of the transistor to ground to make sure the short is still there. Sometimes it's best to backtrack and start over.

If the short is there between chassis ground and the metal case of the output, the two most likely culprits at this point are the retrace capacitor or a puncture in the mica insulator between the horiz output and the chassis (we tested the output before so we'll assume for the moment it's OK).

If the short is now gone, remove and inspect the mica insulator under the horiz output transistor - these were very thin and prone to cracking or puncturing. Sometimes just resetting them with new heat sink compound clears a short, but because there's a 1500 volt pulse on it, it will arc through if you attempt to run it. If the mica insulator is damaged, replace it and you should be good to go.

But if you install the output and get a low ohm short to chassis ground again, remove the two mounting screws of the horiz output and retest. If the short is still there, either the output or the mica insulator is bad. If the short disappears when the screws are removed, the output and mica are good.

*Anything* that is connected to the B+ line and goes to ground is a suspect, including the main B+ filter, but since the tripler had what appears to be a puncture, we start closest to the HV and work back.

Report back what you find with your meter.

John

No holes or cracks in insulator. I cleaned and put new paste on. Meter showed 11 with it in and like 9 0r 10 with it out. Is there supposed to be paste on both sides of insulator?

Meter showed 11 with it in and like 9 0r 10 with it out.

With it out, referenced to what?

If the metal case transistor collector is reading about 10 ohms from the metal to the chassis frame, then remove the two 1/4 hex screws and read again from the metal case of the transistor to chassis frame.

Is it still 10 ohms about with the screws out? If so, the transistor is bad.

If the short goes away with the screws removed, the short is on the chassis.

A lot of those never came with any heatsink compound, some came with compound and some came with dielectric grease.

A small amount on both sides of the mica is fine.

John

When I took it out, it was reading about 10

When I took it out, it was reading about 10

:smoke:

:smoke:

Where can I find replacement Q402? I searched digikey and louder and couldn't find it.

Where can I find replacement Q402? I searched digikey and louder and couldn't find it.

You don't need to find the exact output - the E34 chassis series wasn't picky.

Back in the day, I used to order 2SC1172Bs (toshiba) a hundred at a shot. Back when SKs and ECGs cost $15 or more each, I would pay like $1.99 for the 1172s in quantity. Most TVs were happy with them, but there were some exceptions (some Sanyos for instance).

See if there are any local legacy TV shops in your area that might have some kicking around (I don't).

John

We don't have any here. Last one closed several years ago.

We don't have any here. Last one closed several years ago.

Pretty much any TO-3 metal horiz output will work if it doesn't have a damper in it, and if you find one with a damper built in, you can remove the damper on the board.

John

2SC1413A, BU208, BU108 and a lot of equivalents