This was found locally ( within 20 miles ), but I do not have it yet, it appears to be an in cabinet type set, the wood appears to be in very good condition, condition, but I'm told it does not work.
I am very tempted to go get it, but I never even heard of “ARVIN” before finding this set, and am not sure of its reputation.
And the owner has said that they would like to see me restore it rather than have someone turn it into a doghouse, etc, so I ask, is this set worth it? :o

This was found locally ( within 20 miles ), but I do not have it yet, it appears to be an in cabinet type set, the wood appears to be in very good condition, condition, but I'm told it does not work.
I am very tempted to go get it, but I never even heard of “ARVIN” before finding this set, and am not sure of its reputation.
And the owner has said that they would like to see me restore it rather than have someone turn it into a doghouse, etc, so I ask, is this set worth it? :o

Arvin was a radio manufacturer from the mid-30's to sometime in the early 70's. The products they built were actually very good. They were a big supplier to Sears and other private label products.

One step closer to having the set, it's now paid for, I just have to go get it now!

Arvin was a radio manufacturer from the mid-30's to sometime in the early 70's. The products they built were actually very good. They were a big supplier to Sears and other private label products.
I so agree! They made very nice sets in the early days. In fact many of their radios from the '30's are highly sought after. Their 8" metal TV's from 1950 have become more and more popular too. They also made some very cool art-deco space heaters in the '40's.
Definitely a TV worth saving.

Did you know that Arvin made a piece of broadcast equipment. They built the Arvin Echo Framestore.
I think it would only store ONE picture. It was a whole rack of electronics. Only the networks had them. Late 70's.

I've got one of their FM stereo table sets from 1967. All tube with push pull outputs and phono input, chrome face and real wood cabinet...it's the next best thing to a big name receiver if you want something that won't cost 3 figures.

Arvin Industries was based out of Columbus, Indiana which is just east of Bloomington, where Indiana University is based out of.

they made great radios back in the day, in fact I have an Arvin made Coronado model 650B Farm Radio (battery only set) from 1938 and that radio is a great little performer as it picks up tons of stations at night with a 30' long piece of wire hooked up to it.:thmbsp: :music:

Well, I pick it up this Sat, and the first thing I will do. obviously is yank the back off and hook the CRT up to the BK 490B to see how good it is.

It's a type I have I not seen before with a PM focus ring.
21ep4b.

I had an Arvin AC-DC 4- or 5-tube radio, model 540T (I'm not sure anymore how many tubes it had) years ago. It was housed in a green metal cabinet and had an external antenna terminal on the back cover, with a short wire antenna permanently connected to the antenna input circuit. It worked well enough for me (I lived in a Cleveland suburb, 15 miles from the city, at the time), but I was not too pleased with the fact that it was a hot-chassis set in a metal cabinet. The external antenna terminal was isolated from the chassis by a small capacitor, of course, but it could still be a shock hazard if that capacitor were defective (leaky), and could blow the line fuse if said capacitor were shorted. I remember being shocked once (only once) by this radio when I accidentally touched the chassis and a grounded metal gas stove in the kitchen at the same time; believe me, an experience like that will teach you a lesson you will never forget!

However, I now live in a small town some 45 miles from the local AM stations in Cleveland, so this radio probably wouldn't receive many or even most of the smaller ones (5kW or less; there were and still are a few of those in this area) very well during the day, and probably not at all after dark when the stations change their antenna radiation patterns to favor the immediate Cleveland area. This is probably, even likely, why this particular set had an external antenna terminal. However, one had to be very careful not to touch that terminal and a grounded metal object at the same time, for reasons I mentioned earlier. This kind of design could well be a death trap, which is why I am glad AC-operated solid-state radios are no longer designed this way; there is almost always a small transformer used to power the chassis. The only way this arrangement could present a shock hazard would be if someone deliberately touched the AC input terminals on the transformer or, of course, if the power cord itself were frayed or otherwise damaged.

Arvin Industries was based out of Columbus, Indiana which is just east of Bloomington, where Indiana University is based out of.

they made great radios back in the day, in fact I have an Arvin made Coronado model 650B Farm Radio (battery only set) from 1938 and that radio is a great little performer as it picks up tons of stations at night with a 30' long piece of wire hooked up to it.:thmbsp: :music:

Your Coronado set is made by Kingston radio corp.
Arvin made one with a similar circuit.

I had an Arvin AC-DC 4- or 5-tube radio, model 540T (I'm not sure anymore how many tubes it had) years ago. It was housed in a green metal cabinet and had an external antenna terminal on the back cover, with a short wire antenna permanently connected to the antenna input circuit. It worked well enough for me (I lived in a Cleveland suburb, 15 miles from the city, at the time), but I was not too pleased with the fact that it was a hot-chassis set in a metal cabinet. The external antenna terminal was isolated from the chassis by a small capacitor, of course, but it could still be a shock hazard if that capacitor were defective (leaky), and could blow the line fuse if said capacitor were shorted. I remember being shocked once (only once) by this radio when I accidentally touched the chassis and a grounded metal gas stove in the kitchen at the same time; believe me, an experience like that will teach you a lesson you will never forget!

However, I now live in a small town some 45 miles from the local AM stations in Cleveland, so this radio probably wouldn't receive many or even most of the smaller ones (5kW or less; there were and still are a few of those in this area) very well during the day, and probably not at all after dark when the stations change their antenna radiation patterns to favor the immediate Cleveland area. This is probably, even likely, why this particular set had an external antenna terminal. However, one had to be very careful not to touch that terminal and a grounded metal object at the same time, for reasons I mentioned earlier. This kind of design could well be a death trap, which is why I am glad AC-operated solid-state radios are no longer designed this way; there is almost always a small transformer used to power the chassis. The only way this arrangement could present a shock hazard would be if someone deliberately touched the AC input terminals on the transformer or, of course, if the power cord itself were frayed or otherwise damaged.
Arvin made those radios by the million, many of them badged "Silvertone", Sears private label.
The chassis and metal cabinet was isolated from the line by a .05 cap and a 330K ohm resistor. The isolating capacitor on yours was probably leaky, due to age and it was a paper capacitor.

Arvin made those radios by the million, many of them badged "Silvertone", Sears private label.
The chassis and metal cabinet was isolated from the line by a .05 cap and a 330K ohm resistor. The isolating capacitor on yours was probably leaky, due to age and it was a paper capacitor.

funny that u mention that...

https://i.imgur.com/vl1CVzf.jpg

I was just looking at that part of the schematic :O

Well, I pick it up this Sat, and the first thing I will do. obviously is yank the back off and hook the CRT up to the BK 490B to see how good it is.

It's a type I have I not seen before with a PM focus ring.
21ep4b.
It's fortunate that the set has an all glass CRT. A lot of Arvin 21" sets had a metal cone CRT, a 21AP4, which did not age very well.

SAMS dates it from 1954, about a year older than the stromberg carlson i found, which had a CRT that tested strong, so who knows, will have to see what happens, it IS and oddball size, but there are options.

70 degree deflection angle.
the B version IS aluminized.
as mentioned magnetic focus, with perm mag rings.
on the VERY outside chance that it's bad and or can NOT be made to work, and i deem this unlikely, but you never know :(
ETF has a 21XP4 which is ALMOST the same, Low voltage focus & slightly dif dimensions, with a bit of creative bodging, can be made to work, it's not THAT different in size, would have to adjust the border and mount a bit, and create a volt source for focus, but I seriously doubt this will be a problem, but I have researched it! :D

SAMS dates it from 1954, about a year older than the stromberg carlson i found, which had a CRT that tested strong, so who knows, will have to see what happens, it IS and oddball size, but there are options.

70 degree deflection angle.
the B version IS aluminized.
as mentioned magnetic focus, with perm mag rings.
on the VERY outside chance that it's bad and or can NOT be made to work, and i deem this unlikely, but you never know :(
ETF has a 21XP4 which is ALMOST the same, Low voltage focus & slightly dif dimensions, with a bit of creative bodging, can be made to work, it's not THAT different in size, would have to adjust the border and mount a bit, and create a volt source for focus, but I seriously doubt this will be a problem, but I have researched it! :D

The 21XP4 is an odd-ball, 21 inch CRT with a smaller viewing surface, similar to a 21WP4 used in some Admirals.
The 21EP4 is a cylindrical face plate CRT. Check to see if it's usable first.

21EP4 isn't that much of and oddball. I have a set with one, and found a spare fairly easily. The set (Bendix!) has a NOS Sylvannia (still had the cap and warranty card). Nice picture. Oddly, I aligned it using the 'meter method', instead of a sweep alignment (it wasn't really off anyway). Best picture of any set I have, though it tends to have a bit of color subcarrier in it. I wish I could get my cable box to give a signal with no color subcarrier...

21EP4 isn't that much of and oddball. I have a set with one, and found a spare fairly easily. The set (Bendix!) has a NOS Sylvannia (still had the cap and warranty card). Nice picture. Oddly, I aligned it using the 'meter method', instead of a sweep alignment (it wasn't really off anyway). Best picture of any set I have, though it tends to have a bit of color subcarrier in it. I wish I could get my cable box to give a signal with no color subcarrier...

If your cable box has S-video output all you need to get rid of the subcarrier is an external RF modulator and a modified S-video to RCA cable. S-video is 2 coaxes. One has just monochrome video and sync the other coax carries just the color subcarrier. A S-video to RCA cable simply Ys the 2 coaxes into one...all you gotta do is cut the color Coax or remove it's pin from the S-video plug.

The 21XP4 is an odd-ball, 21 inch CRT with a smaller viewing surface, similar to a 21WP4 used in some Admirals.
The 21EP4 is a cylindrical face plate CRT. Check to see if it's usable first.

Looks like work has been done on it before, some new caps there

https://i.imgur.com/hcwNMTu.jpg


it USED to have casters....
https://i.imgur.com/HCMc3dY.jpg

not too bad looking
https://imgur.com/V9qORzf

now the VERY BAD NEWS...

https://i.imgur.com/Q4LSddi.jpg

I have no option but to get an 21XP4 from ETF and adapt it to fit and work, i wont find a 21EP4 for it. that is for sure.

It will be tricky, but it can be done...

If your cable box has S-video output all you need to get rid of the subcarrier is an external RF modulator and a modified S-video to RCA cable. S-video is 2 coaxes. One has just monochrome video and sync the other coax carries just the color subcarrier. A S-video to RCA cable simply Ys the 2 coaxes into one...all you gotta do is cut the color Coax or remove it's pin from the S-video plug.

What about sound? Oh wait - they make modulator that take all three in, don't they?

(I've not done the modulator thing before..)

What about sound? Oh wait - they make modulator that take all three in, don't they?

(I've not done the modulator thing before..)
Most consumer RF modulators have stereo RCA sound input, but some have mono...You can Y the sound channels together if it has mono input (though combining through a couple of 1k resistors is better). Cabling on such a setup isn't too bad.

The sad state of the former 21ep4b https://i.imgur.com/pXE3HJm.jpg you can almost see the numbers on the socket!

working on getting a replacement.


my cat has to check it out, of course.

It's a shame it's in that state.

I probably wouldn't have paid money for it if I saw it was necked...the CRTs are worth as much as a good restorable set so unless the set is REALLY special it doesn't make sense to dig that financial hole.

It's a shame it's in that state.

I probably wouldn't have paid money for it if I saw it was necked...the CRTs are worth as much as a good restorable set so unless the set is REALLY special it doesn't make sense to dig that financial hole.

I would not have gotten it had i known, but that is the point , I did not, :(

I just don't want to quit at just hardly starting.

I'm also thinking about the 21AWP4 as a replacement.

it is NOT a 70 degree tube but a 72, not sure if that will matter or not, but ETF has one, it IS magnetic focus, and has a screen size close to the 21ep4b, I'm really not sure when it comes to finding a sub for these things.

electronically, it looks the same, if it WON'T work due to the diff in angle I will go with the first choice of the 21xp4. :scratch2:

unbelievable... :yikes:
https://i.imgur.com/VqENg46.jpg

i have done nothing to this chassis yet other than a slow power up!

And so it has begun, a quick test with the 8yp4 test CRT showed me I had good HV and horz sweep and NO vert, I thought OK, most likely due to bad caps, but I did see that some work in the area had been done before. After a bit of poking around, found OK voltage on the plate of the Ver output, but in the plate of the Osc, nothing... 0 volts. :(

Which was tracked down to a bad Osc transformer
one winding is 1k,, the other SHOULD be 200 ohms, wide open... already found a new one.

what I'm facing getting a replacement CRT

what was in there
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/093/2/21EP4A.pdf

As mentioned, this is a magnetic focus 70 degree tube
one option
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/093/2/21XP4A.pdf
another 70 degree tube but electrostatic focus and slightly smaller dimensions

the other option
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/093/2/21AWP4.pdf
this is a magnetic focus 72 degree tube which seems to have exact electronic footprint of the original tube but has slightly larger dimensions ( can also be made to fit )
Choices choices :O

its obvious what happened now,,,

https://imgur.com/I9bx3ux

before

https://imgur.com/niai1YF

after

i bought i based what i saw on the first picture

when i got there, the seller had said that they had already started to try moving it, i also saw that the back was off.

this can only mean that THEY NECKED IT yesterday...
it was not broken up until then. careless error on the seller.

i confirmed this by placing the electron gun elements in water, the getter foamed up like crazy even this many hours later, meaning the metals it it had not oxidized yet meaning a fresh rupture.

should i scream an yell at the seller? demand money back? where will that get me?

bottom line I need a CRT now...

but they SHOULD have said something. because there is no way they could have known that they did not break it.

...

I'm also thinking about the 21AWP4 as a replacement.

it is NOT a 70 degree tube but a 72, not sure if that will matter or not, but ETM has one, it IS magnetic focus, and has a screen size close to the 21ep4b, I'm really not sure when it comes to finding a sub for these things.

electronically, it looks the same, if it WON'T work due to the diff in angle I will go with the first choice of the 21xp4. :scratch2:

I have, what I think is good, a 21FP4 which is an electrostatic focus tube. Looks the same with the cylindrical faceplate. It's a rebuilt and I don't think it has many hours of use. I have to check it first and see if it's worthwhile.
All you have to do is remove the PM focus unit.

you can see that it already wants to live!

https://i.imgur.com/ryF4EKY.jpg

running at 90v input so as not to burn the test CRT.

vert osc transformer on the way.

I have, what I think is good, a 21FP4 which is an electrostatic focus tube. Looks the same with the cylindrical faceplate. It's a rebuilt and I don't think it has many hours of use. I have to check it first and see if it's worthwhile.
All you have to do is remove the PM focus unit.
The CRT checks out perfectly!
I'll PM you soon with the cost of the tube and the shipping. :thmbsp:

The CRT checks out perfectly!
I'll PM you soon with the cost of the tube and the shipping. :thmbsp:

sent you my address in PM. :)

Just ordered a bunch of electrolytic caps for the set, not sure when Mouser will ship them out, they still seem to be lagging. :(
I'm still quite surprised that the chassis was able to power up and work as much as it did w/o being touched, but there is signs of it being worked on before, especially in the IF and Vert, areas, kind of sux that the osc transformer is toast, I wonder how often they go bad?
https://i.imgur.com/CejiNie.jpg

Plate voltage on the vert output was OK, but nothing going into the grid.
Had 0 volts on the plate of the Vert Osc, but 200v on the red wire going into the x-former.
1k between YEL/GRN infinite between RED/BLUE, DEAD! :(
Was not too hard to find a NOS stancor a-8122.

But anyway, before I do anything to it, I'm gonna take pics of every inch of the chassis.

interesting...

the heater is still intact
https://i.imgur.com/W9A88bN.jpg

NOT a original coil...
https://i.imgur.com/bSHhtej.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GQ3r6VR.jpg

SOME new caps
CRAPPY solder work,, that power resistor looks like HELL.

https://i.imgur.com/iFRK3UY.jpg

scribbling in the IF?
https://i.imgur.com/iFRK3UY.jpg


WHERE THE HELL IS THE COVER TO THE TUNER?
https://i.imgur.com/0QAyWVe.jpg
the plastic for the numbers is rotten too :(

https://i.imgur.com/HONXwg2.jpg
top view

https://i.imgur.com/g9irgEL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/cnzgqFS.jpg
VERY dusty

FBT looks good
https://i.imgur.com/X0P1niO.jpg

But...
WHERE THE HELL IS THE COVER FOR THE HV CAGE???
are you trying to blast people with x-rays?

and notice 2 FUSES?
if you are going to replace a blown fuse, TAKE THE BAD ONE OUT IDIOT!!

obviously who ever worked on this before had no love for the set...

gonna have to take it into the garage and give it a good cleaning.

finding more bad parts already:tears:

open peaking coils

https://i.imgur.com/GQ3r6VR.jpg you can seem them here, they are cracked open and grey I saw that they had exposed coils and are WIDE open.. only the resistors show when tested.

https://i.imgur.com/LR4GpTs.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/5jNjKAZ.jpg

for L39 i found a NOS NIB J.W. Miller 6154 200 uH Filter Choke Peaking Coil 3/8
could not find an exact list replacement for L36 so i got a Merit TV-183 Peaking Coil 180 mH 10 ohm seemed close enough, as they listed 180 as other replacements.

Even MORE things BAD!

1.1k 22 watts candohm resistor OPEN!

gonna put a 25 watt in the sucker

one of the 2 bad peaking coils, these are NOT original coils, they have been replaced before, and have gone to crap...

https://imgur.com/rIOEEXw

You're are seeing a lot of crappy repair work that was done in the 50s-70s. They could do haphazard work and still get the TV to work OK. I've seen a lot of missing HV covers. Some repairmen just didn't put them back on, especially if they were difficult to re-install. Based on the voltages involved with B&W TVs, there wasn't that much of an X-ray hazard. The cage was mainly to contain the high voltages. It's also possible that the customer didn't want the TV repaired after the repairman gave them an estimate and the repairman just slapped it back into the cabinet, thinking that the TV would never be repaired.

Littlefuse made a fuse holder which allowed to you piggyback a new pigtail-less fuse onto a pigtail fuse. I used them some when I didn't have the exact value fuse in the pigtail configuration.

I have seen those clip in fuses before, but what was done here was a pigtail fuse soldered over a burned out one, they did not take the time to remove it and neatly put it in.

the tuner is is very bad shape, been sprayed a LOT and greasy, the wires in is are starting to lose their covering, I'm afraid to touch it.

IF section is also borked, I did a spot check of s few resistors 10% ones ones that should have been 47 ohms tested around 56, If i try to replace, I'm not sure if i will be able to tune in anything cause of the tuner and/ or alignment.
I SORT of can hear something when changing channels, but VERY weak.

IF all else fails, A/V input.

Time is money and if a repair man was doing work for a flat rate they sometimes did sloppy stuff to work fast....I can't tell you how many sets I've repaired where decades before me some tech reinstalled half or less of the chassis, back cover, HV cover, etc, etc screws and chucked the rest.... I've even seen sets where the chassis was barely hanging onto the cabinet (good reason to pull the back before loading a console for transport).

It bugs me but hasn't surprised me for a long time.

The worse the repair the more I question if it worked after the repair...

Time is money and if a repair man was doing work for a flat rate they sometimes did sloppy stuff to work fast....
Sad but true statement. Same thing goes on today with hourly billed services. Unfortunately it's often due to technician incompetence taking up way more time than the customer should justify paying for. Other times there's circumstances beyond control at play. One way or another it gets chalked up to the cost of doing business.

Time is money and if a repair man was doing work for a flat rate they sometimes did sloppy stuff to work fast....



This is in direct contradiction in my field of work :O

ESP with soldering standards and ISO certifications ETC
cutting corners are a NO-NO :o

makes my skin crawl

https://i.imgur.com/KDScPm4.jpg
one cooked candohm resistor.

I happened to have a 1.3k 50w on hand, but it takes a 1.1k, not that it should matter for now, mouser is sending a 25w one... SOMETIME, along with the Caps i ordered, that SAY they will ship Fri, in the meantime I guess I can start replacing the paper bombs :o

I now have extra $$$ from the stimulus check, meaning we now have funds to throw at a viable CRT for this set, be it the 21FP4 from DJ, or the 21ASP4 Steve from ETF, mentioned, there is no immediate rush to get it right now, ATM, but I would like to secure SOMETHING, before the extra reserve of $$, gets nibbled away by other things, we have all seen that happen all too often...

Failing everything else, as a ultimate last resort, if I cant seem to get my paws on a replacement CRT, I will pull the 21AUP4B out of the Stromberg Carlson x-21 and make that work somehow, but I really don't wanna do that if I do not have to.

I now have extra $$$ from the stimulus check, meaning we now have funds to throw at a viable CRT for this set, be it the 21FP4 from DJ, or the 21ASP4 Steve from ETF, mentioned, there is no immediate rush to get it right now, ATM, but I would like to secure SOMETHING, before the extra reserve of $$, gets nibbled away by other things, we have all seen that happen all too often...

Failing everything else, as a ultimate last resort, if I cant seem to get my paws on a replacement CRT, I will pull the 21AUP4B out of the Stromberg Carlson x-21 and make that work somehow, but I really don't wanna do that if I do not have to.
I'm trying to make arrangements for shipping, maybe by car.
PM me with your phone#, Dave :thmbsp:

I'm trying to make arrangements for shipping, maybe by car.
PM me with your phone#, Dave :thmbsp:

sent

I'm finding that there is a very large amount of resistors bad in this thing, WAY out of tolerance, no wonder I can get nothing via the tuner...

https://i.imgur.com/6hFlgXR.jpg

some of the paper bombs replaced.

It seems that there are not THAT MANY paper bombs in this thing to replace, most caps are ceramic & mica, still waiting on Mouser for the electrolytics, replacing all the bad resistors will be pure hell, this thing is in the worst shape I've seen resistor wise of everything I have worked on to date, and there is one couplet in there that I'm not sure is good or bad yet. :(

all paper bombs replaced.
now waiting for more parts :o

Recap done, as in all paper and electrolytics have been replaced.

Bias is a tad high, this is no surprise with vert still down, HV good,, getting vert back is proving to be a problem...

The replacement osc transformer was sent on March 24, 2021, 6:55 pm.
but USPS still says... Shipping Label Created, USPS Awaiting Item.
If it does not update by next week mon or so, then they have lost it. a rare item, lost, AGAIN, BY USPS.

Recap done, as in all paper and electrolytics have been replaced.

Bias is a tad high, this is no surprise with vert still down, HV good,, getting vert back is proving to be a problem...

The replacement osc transformer was sent on March 24, 2021, 6:55 pm.
but USPS still says... Shipping Label Created, USPS Awaiting Item.
If it does not update by next week mon or so, then they have lost it. a rare item, lost, AGAIN, BY USPS.
On the lost item, if it is an eBay item, could be that the seller has created the label and not handed it over to the USPS too.

On the lost item, if it is an eBay item, could be that the seller has created the label and not handed it over to the USPS too.

Yes, it was on eBay, I have been contacting the seller back and forth, and they say that it WAS given to USPS on the 24th, but still no tracking update, going to file a find lost item clam on Monday, but I doubt that will do any good :(

I had a similar situation with the USPS recently. I got a prepaid mailing label so I just gave the item to my postal carrier. Evidently, the carrier did not properly (or didn't at all) scan the item. It didn't show up in the USPS tracking system until it was delivered which was pretty much on time.

Disclaimer first: I have several friends and family members that work for or have retired from the USPS (When it was civil service).

But... I too have seen anomalies in the tracking system where it says things like it was accepted or a label has been created and nothing for days. Suddenly, it appears in my letter box. So, that said, I am hoping for the best and maybe it will show up this week.

A few years ago, there was "Hell To Pay" if Priority Mail didn't get priority handling and arrive on time. All of that is out of the window. You pay extra for Priority Mail and it gets there when it gets there. I (unfortunately) still buy "stuff" from the auction site so I have many dealings with the USPS. I will say that my Letter Carrier, Cheryl is conscientious and just shakes her head. She has given me a lot of advice with little things to improve service. But the workers are human and they are working under the direction of that new idiot that was placed in charge. Yes, the USPS looses tons of money every year.

Last comment and then I will shut up is what I perceive is this "I gotta have it NOW!" attitude of society. "Overnight Delivery", "2-Day Delivery" etc. I am more into reasonable delivery; I don't have to have it tomorrow. Yes, it's nice but I see that as an unnecessary expense.

I didn't hope to derail this thread and really hope the item shows up this week. I think it will.

All I know is, it is now 3/29, the day that e Bay said that it should be here by, and the status still has not changed, the 2 coils I ordered have come w/o problems, one from a greater distance away, ref, 9400111108400460716030, so with every passing day with no updates and no sign of it, it's a telling indication that they lost it.

USPS says that the parcel was delivered March 27, 2021 at 1:04 pm ROUND ROCK, TX 78665 into the parcel locker, whatever that is. Does that make sense?

A friend of mine got a free colecovision power brick because of shipping malarkey...He bought it from an ebay seller in venezuela and the thing got to a depot near customs and SAT... eventually he got a refund near the end of the claims period... Something like 3-4 MONTHS later it showed up out of the blue.

Fingers cross that it is found!

USPS says that the parcel was delivered March 27, 2021 at 1:04 pm ROUND ROCK, TX 78665 into the parcel locker, whatever that is. Does that make sense?
was the 2nd of the 2 cols which i put up as example

the seemingly lost one is 9400108205496489024821

https://i.imgur.com/Ik8V3ZL.jpg

progress so far...

The transformer is indeed lost, :(
The seller got nowhere with USPS yesterday, they cold not tell him why there was no update in the scan, or even where it was... its gone...

now i need another one,
seems that ETF has 2. :o

Talk about price gouging... there is one place asking $70 for a MERIT A-4003 Osc x-former :o
They must be insane.

I did get a refund for the stancor a-8122 $17 :o

https://i.imgur.com/B5mNfrL.jpg
one dead osc transformer.

edit--

thought as much, hopeless. not fixable. quite dead.

The Vert output transformer seems to be OK resistance wise , so that is a good sign.

this thing a been through a lot because the audio output transformer has been replaced with a Merit A-3019, and I'm not sure but I think the FBT may have been replaced as well, not sure, but it only has 2 of 4 screws and they don't match and the base metal looks newer.

What a shame. I am still waiting for an item that has been in the Huntsville West (Alabama) PO for 8 days according to tracking. I am going to attempt to call them today. I really hope it eventually shows up.

It's pretty much hopeless at this point expecting it to show up, chalk it up to the recent degradation of the USPS, and we all know who is to blame for that, w/o getting needlessly political.

The seller went to the point of shipment on Mon, to try and find what happened, and they could not give him any answers other then they had no idea where it was or why it was not scanned when it was dropped off there.
All I know is, here it is 7 days later, and still no change in status, and it most likely never will...

I have to wait and see what ETF can find for me now, in the meantime, I will be replacing the many bad resistors.

https://i.imgur.com/B5mNfrL.jpg
one dead osc transformer.

edit--

thought as much, hopeless. not fixable. quite dead.

I'd carefully slice open the paper on the transformer and have a look. You have nothing to loose. Sometimes the magnet wire corrodes open close to where it solders to the colored leads or the outer layer of winding develops an open...

I had a vert Osc transformer in a Raytheon porthole where mice had chewed it up and I had to go down a layer to get back continuity in the open winding...It has ran decently on that lower turns count since then.

I'd carefully slice open the paper on the transformer and have a look. You have nothing to loose. Sometimes the magnet wire corrodes open close to where it solders to the colored leads or the outer layer of winding develops an open...

I had a vert Osc transformer in a Raytheon porthole where mice had chewed it up and I had to go down a layer to get back continuity in the open winding...It has ran decently on that lower turns count since then.

i already tried that, no good.
VERY THIN WIRE though

How often do these damn ' block osc transformers' go bad? And what could have made it go, age? Or did some putz burn it up?
The Sams mentions shorting the plate of the osc tube to ground as a test, in a ref in one waveform, that put all the power that would be going to the tube to gnd via that transformer winding, that can't be very good for it...



EDIT====

just a coincidence? :o

https://i.imgur.com/EOFc6d2.jpg

:O

The 1M resistor in series not to mention the 2.5M pot should limit plate winding current to safe levels with the plate grounded.

I think I have only seen 1-2 Vert Osc transformers failed and one of them was mouse chew fail...

A while ago on the antiqueradios.com TV forum an australian posted an RF circuit one could use in place of a vert Osc transformer to help out someone with that issue in IIRC a Dumont set.

I'm not good at all soldering surface mount stuff but years of collecting and restoring have made me learn how to solder 2 paper thin wires together well.

WOW,,, JUST WOW...

https://i.imgur.com/qUwsDjr.jpg

:scratch2:

IT'S ALIVE!!! IT'S ALIVE!!!

THE IF IS ALIVE!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXrOPvrDdzY

Houston, we have video!
https://i.imgur.com/RAg2C28.jpg
and sound!
very unstable, I'm sure the IF is all out of wack, I'm getting to the point that I can't do much more w/o the vert osc transformer. :(

And here it is, 12 days later and there is still no sign of the transformer that was ordered, it's kind of stuck in limbo... USPS says the label was created but they never got the package, but the seller says that it WAS given to them on the day in mention, Rod Serling must be the Postmaster at the depot he tried to send it from, for there must no doubt be wormholes or dimensional rifts at that post office, and there is now a vertical oscillator blocking transformer floating out there in 10th dimension with Amelia Earhart and D. B. Cooper.
And so now that it seems that I can get video through the thing all the way to the last stage, ( crt cathode ), the hunt for a new replacement transfomer goes on. :O

As I suspected, 80% of the resistors in the thing are VERY out of tol, and are needing to be replaced, looking forward to what kind of pic I can see once I get vert working.

The 1M resistor in series not to mention the 2.5M pot should limit plate winding current to safe levels with the plate grounded.

I think I have only seen 1-2 Vert Osc transformers failed and one of them was mouse chew fail...

A while ago on the antiqueradios.com TV forum an australian posted an RF circuit one could use in place of a vert Osc transformer to help out someone with that issue in IIRC a Dumont set.

I'm not good at all soldering surface mount stuff but years of collecting and restoring have made me learn how to solder 2 paper thin wires together well.

I will soon have a new ( well NOS) X-fomer from ETF, that hopefully won't get lost in the mail, in the meantime, I think I have found what you mentioned, but I have no clue how it can be put into THIS circuit.
https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/community/black-white-tvs/replacing-a-vertical-blocking-oscillator-transformer/

https://imgur.com/CejiNie

While I'm waiting for the vert Osc x-former from ETF, I have noticed that some of the power resistors are running a bit warm, they are not smoking or anything, so I guess its OK.

https://i.imgur.com/p8TwMpx.jpg

R122, which was the candohm resistor, rated at 20w, now a 25w, still very hot, and R123, was a 5w sand resistor, was getting very hot, disintegrating, green leads, new ohmite 5w in there, still getting very hot. Gonna put in a 10w

electrolytic capacitors are new.
The 145v goes mainly to the video IF , no shorts found, and when I pull the IF tubes, the heating stops, so I guess this is normal...

Modern "leaded" resistors of all wattages seem to be designed to get extremely hot
at rated power. I've taken to using resistors the same physical size as the
old ones, unless they are running 1/8 watt or less. This usually means twice the wattage
or even more.

Measure the voltage across the resistor. Wattage = (V*V) / R Use a resistor rated for at least twice that.

OK....
found out a few things...
the 8yp4 does NOT work with thing :no:
I had to go grab the 21aup4a from the Stromberg.

using a signal generator, I was SORT of able to recreate Vert osc, but It is not perfect.
https://i.imgur.com/Fqk4hXC.jpg

It will have to do till I get the transformer from ETF.
HORZ looks fine, IF is obviously messed up, but working mostly.
and it DOES look like this thing will work!

This IS getting rather interesting, since the 8YP4 would not work for some reason, checked 2 times, it was hooked up right, and still waiting for the 21FP4 from dieseljeep to be shipped, which I hope to be the final CRT for the completed project.

But as mentioned, since the 8YP4 was not compatible, I'm using my 21AUP4A/B for now, but the method I used last night of laying it down on foam pads and cardboard boxes is NOT the safest way to do this, not to mention, I really need to extend the CRT and yoke wires a bit to give more room to place things safely.

After thinking for a bit about how to do this, with a bit of searching I found a giant hose clamp. :O
Big enough to fit around the screen, so when I get it, I will attempt to build a base to strap it safely down to for testing, it will look very strange when done I think! :)

This IS getting rather interesting, since the 8YP4 would not work for some reason, checked 2 times, it was hooked up right, and still waiting for the 21FP4 from dieseljeep to be shipped, which I hope to be the final CRT for the completed project.

But as mentioned, since the 8YP4 was not compatible, I'm using my 21AUP4A/B for now, but the method I used last night of laying it down on foam pads and cardboard boxes is NOT the safest way to do this, not to mention, I really need to extend the CRT and yoke wires a bit to give more room to place things safely.

After thinking for a bit about how to do this, with a bit of searching I found a giant hose clamp. :O
Big enough to fit around the screen, so when I get it, I will attempt to build a base to strap it safely down to for testing, it will look very strange when done I think! :)

I'm still working on a quote for shipping. Then I'll PM you.

Is there a focus coil or magnet around the neck of the 8YP4 ? If so, you need to remove it. The 8YP4 is self focusing and an external magnetic field is not needed. Also no ion trap magnet.

Is there a focus coil or magnet around the neck of the 8YP4 ? If so, you need to remove it. The 8YP4 is self focusing and an external magnetic field is not needed. Also no ion trap magnet.


I have used this 8yp4 before, when I brought up my FADA 895, so it was hooked up as you say.
One of which can be seen here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id3OWPlHtVo
But I have no clue as to why it did not work this time, it just gave a blank raster, brightness cont had no effect, SOMETIMES there was a dim negative image, but it just did not like it.

But hooked up the other tube, BAM! Image. so who knows
:scratch2:

I'm gonna try something I did not think of last night...
With the FADA 895 & the 8YP4, video was being fed in on G1 with the cathode @ 0v, and adjusted G1 bias to set brightness, the Arvin has video going in on the cathode and adjusts IT'S bias to set brightness, and has G1 @ 0v... and the 8YP4 seems to hate it, what if I were to switch them?
Feed in the video in G1 like it was when it worked on the fada and hooked the cathode line up to where the 0V G1 was? :O


EDIT---

No, that won't work, cause even if it fixes the problem, it will cause a negative image... RATS...

21AUP4 and 8YP4 have different # of pins so I assume you are using an adapter ? Could be that G1, G2 and K are not going to the correct pins.

Do you have an 8XP4 ? That would be directly compatible.

21AUP4 and 8YP4 have different # of pins so I assume you are using an adapter ? Could be that G1, G2 and K are not going to the correct pins.

Do you have an 8XP4 ? That would be directly compatible.

I checked them 2 times :(
not sure why they why it does not wanna work
https://i.imgur.com/lsyrjzp.jpg you can see the adapter here, Got it from EM last year.
all the pins DO go the right place. it just does not like it :no:
and Sadly I only have the one test tube.
but I have thought of an unusual way of mounting the 21aup4a for testing, which I will try tonight, which i am PRETTY sure has never been done before! :D

I DID say that my idea was unusual, and most likely never been done before!

https://i.imgur.com/UvGcHkg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Yu7bCLu.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9ZKXqly.jpg

Took the chassis from the stromberg carlson x-21, and mounted the 21AUP4A in it backwards to be used by the Arvin chassis.

I managed to beat it into submission, a little bit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XjsK3P1DvU

tuner is in pretty crappy shape, it works, but not very well. It may not be worth trying to get IF working up to snuff on this with such a poor tuner.

Kind of at a dilemma at this point of what to do next, the tuner is working, but very poorly, judging by the amount of resistors I have had to replace so far, (90%) , many of which were way out of tolerance, some by more than 2x, but now, after going over most of the chassis, except for the tuner area, IF is now working in FAIR condition, there still may be a few more bad resistors here and there that I have not found yet, but it over all seems to be working in a stable manor.
It can definitely benefit from an IF alignment attempt, but with the tuner in such poor condition, is it even worth it?
There will be no doubt bad resistors in the tuner, just like there was in the chassis, but it can't be touched for fear of making it worse/ destroying it. It is highly evident just by looking at it, that it has suffered years of abuse from solvents and chemicals, there was oils and varnish all over it which I carefully tried to clean, but I noticed that the visible wires in it had degraded to the point to where the insolation on them was like chalk and was coming off to the slightest touch.
Just WAY too many years with caustic chemicals eating away at things, so I have to wonder, with the tuner in such a poor state do I attempt to adjust IF, or go for direct A/V. :O

https://i.imgur.com/aiDvToP.jpg

why I will most likely go with direct A/V input on this set. :(

pretty bad shape. :tears:

How much of it is damaged? If it's just the fat wires like the ones on the right, you should be able to replace them without disturbing the alignment; but if it's all those enamel wire coils, I would probably forget it. The coils will be individually spiked (turns spaced to reduce inductance) for alignment, so you would have to make new ones with the right number of turns and diameters and then figure out how to adjust (spike) them.

It does look like the coils are degraded, I have no idea what was sprayed on there, BUT , I just found something unbelievable on eBay...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/333930789108?hash=item4dbfd378f4:g:gDUAAOSwwgxgWUt m

for THAT price, its worth a try.

I still may end up going direct input, building the amp now for it cause 1v ptp is not enough.

slowly getting better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2Ic8Z_SC1g

gonna try IF alignment

About Attempting the IF alignment :O

the SAMs says what Freq to use with the generator, but not what not what amplitude :O

my fancy generator can go from 0v - 5v, what do i set it to?

The lowest level possible that results in a good meter deflection on the most sensitive scale. Or scope if that's what you're using.

WOW,, with no aunt hooked up, I'm pulling in my transmitter from downstairs Chan 7 with this thing :o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxfXPKdu1oc

latest video test, after IF alignment attempt

:O

https://imgur.com/TUl1wO8

I had an interesting “WTF” scare over the weekend, the chassis that was working so well after the IF alignment, suddenly stopped working, no video, poor sound, only a raster with herringbone pattern.
Putting scope on point B ( output to CRT) showed strong 60 hz wave, but input on V9 grid was normal, WTF happened here? :o
Then noticed no bias on plate, huh? Where did the 140v go?!
Then saw that R124 was smoking... did something short?
Shut down and checked, yup, 140v, hard short to gnd, what happened? Did the replacement for C4 die? Nope, it was fine, solder fault someplace? Nope, whats going on here... wait a sec, V10! Pulled it out, short GONE! :O
The damn thing took a dump and went H-K short on me in a hard way, never saw one go this bad before, but this once again proves the rule that you should not run these un-watched :/
Who knows what could have happened, now running on another 6AU6, it seems they are pushing it to the limit in this set, some specs say cathode 100v others say 200v in relation to the heater, I know that before everything heats up it goes above 200v there, so its stressing that spec, if I saw it right.

Gotta keep an eye on that.

ran it for about 90 min tonight w/o any smoke.

the 400 ohm 5w resistor is now 10w and is no longer black and too hot looking.

fixed the error in the Vert hold that had it at the far extreme of the control.

https://i.imgur.com/EOFc6d2.jpg

NO IDEA why some dweeb put in a 1.5 meg in for r91, works much better with a 1.3. :yes:

EDIT---
I may go over the IF setup one more time,, this time with a analog meter.

I have managed to beat my father's old "rat-shack" micronta 22-220a multimeter into submission, which I shall attempt to use for the 2nd IF alignment pass on this chassis, I understand now why these older types are preferred over the digital, because the numbers on the digital jump all over the place.

The setup for this IF alignment in the SAMs says to remove the AGC keying tube, set local-distance-suburban switch to “suburban” and apply -2.5 to AGC control point junction of R59-60, which I did, but the clip lead fell off at some point when I was doing the alignment and did not notice, but still got a great improvement when done.
It seemed that the traps were more detuned ( adjust for min deflection ), than the passive transfomers were, (adjust for max ).

I don't know if doing it a 2nd time will yeild any improvement, but it will only cost the better part of an eveing to try!

Unfortunately, uou need to use a VTVM. They typically have a 10 Meg input impedance. That multimeter will load the circuit down and is not sensitive enough.

Unfortunately, uou need to use a VTVM. They typically have a 10 Meg input impedance. That multimeter will load the circuit down and is not sensitive enough.

quote "the micronta 22-220A analog multimeter is a FET Analog multitester for highly accurate results, it has 10 megaohms input impedance and performs like a VTVM "


It wont be good enough? :O

Oh, cool. Sorry I missed that. Carry on and good luck :)

there is not much more I can do to this chassis, did the IF alignment 2 times, only small improvement, the tuner is still in poor shape , but works, the missing RF shield on the bottom does not help, nor does the missing HV shield, both of which add to the RFI problems.

It has run for many hours on the bench w/o major problems, but I wont be able to tell how it will act once I get it in it's final cabinet, or if I will have the go the direct A/V input or not, but to reach that final stage, I still need the last part, the CRT that will be going in the set, and final arrangements are still being made for that.

This is not really relevant to anything, just another WTF moment, before doing the IF alignment for the 2nd time, I wanted to make sure all the IF tubes (6CB6) were fresh and strong, and thus replaced them with NOS.
However, when I got to the 4th IF to replace it, I noticed it did NOT have a 6CB6 in there, but 6AU6 :o
After cleaning the sockets and pins, I was careful to put each tube back where it came from, taking them out one by one, even writing the position number on the outside of it.
But I did NOT look under the shields at the tubes themselves at the time. :/
What seems to have happened, that whoever had it before me, got the 4th video IF (6CB6) V8 and the audio IF (6AU6 ) V11 swapped with each other, and I did not notice it.

Now, these tubes are quite different from each other, very dissimilar in biasing, so I have to wonder, how the heck did this thing work at all with these tubes swapped?
:scratch2:

Filaments and plate are the same pins. Probably close enough for a signal to get through even with the cathode and grids mixed up.

One thing noticed when trying to do the IF alignment on thing is how ridiculously sensitive it can be, you seem to have it adjusted perfectly, then you move your hand away and the meter moves significantly. :(

In other words, just having your hand a length of the alignment tool away from the coil you are trying to adjust has a noticeable affect on the final setting... frustrating!!!

The 21FP4 is on the way, I just got an alert by FEDex! It says Sunday, but we shall see, the tracking will update more tonight!

Thanks DJ! :)

I guess I can make some assumptions here.

I believe you said the was a rebuild and aluminized, making it a 21FP4C, you also mentioned that “it has a self focus gun”, thus making it unique, according to what I find when I research the tube type.
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/093/2/21FP4A.pdf
Meaning it was rebuilt with a more modern gun assembly, having auto-focus, and needing no ion trap?

Am I correct here? :)

I guess I can make some assumptions here.

I believe you said the was a rebuild and aluminized, making it a 21FP4C, you also mentioned that “it has a self focus gun”, thus making it unique, according to what I find when I research the tube type.
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/093/2/21FP4A.pdf
Meaning it was rebuilt with a more modern gun assembly, having auto-focus, and needing no ion trap?

Am I correct here? :)
I'm pretty sure it needs an ion trap! Try it first to see if you get a raster. If so, it doesn't need one. If it doesn't, try an ion trap.
Of course, you have to remove the magnetic focus unit.
The focus pin is one that you have to without a connection or grounded or to B+ source. Most of them never needed a connection to provide proper focus.

I'm pretty sure it needs an ion trap! Try it first to see if you get a raster. If so, it doesn't need one. If it doesn't, try an ion trap.
Of course, you have to remove the magnetic focus unit.
The focus pin is one that you have to without a connection or grounded or to B+ source. Most of them never needed a connection to provide proper focus.

it should be fairly easy to see if it needs one just by looking at the elements, from what I'm able to tell.

example the remains of the broken one.
https://i.imgur.com/W9A88bN.jpg
again excuse my finger in the pic :(
as you can see that one grid is slanted, a NON ion trap one won't be, I'm sure.

you are starting to worry me FED-EX....

Scheduled delivery: Sunday, May 9, 2021 by end of day TODAY

LAST SCAN
Friday, May 7, 2021
5:23 AM NEW BERLIN, WI Arrived at FedEx location

then nothing

:thumbsdn: :scratch2:
are they sending via stargate?

how THE HELL CAN THEY LOSE, A 25x24x19 in. 34LB package?

they say, they don't know where it is? WTF?

And now, 3 hours later, after I was told on the phone " we are not sure WHERE is is"

Sunday, May 9, 2021
2:13 PM FORT WORTH, TX Arrived at FedEx location

Scheduled delivery:
Monday, May 10, 2021 by end of day
:O
why could they not tell me that when I called, rather than " we don't know."?

It's like the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing...

Do not feel as though you are in this shipping thing alone. I bought an item from a guy in Huntsville, Alabama on March 22. He shipped it that same day. The Post Office showed that they had it in their possession on that same date, March 22, 2021. It sat there for weeks. I filed a complaint with the UPS on May 4th, because I tried 20 times to call the West Huntsville, AL post office. Every time, the call would time out because NO ONE picked up the phone ("Your call is important to us!") Bovine Scat!!!

The complaint started in my post office (Florida) and they were able to get things moving in just two days. Now, the item is sitting in the Jacksonville Post Office and I got a call, telling me that it would be here on Tuesday.

I ask you, "Why did I have to file a complaint to get it moving???" But alas, today is not Tuesday. It remains to be seen if it ever arrives...

Do not feel as though you are in this shipping thing alone. I bought an item from a guy in Huntsville, Alabama on March 22. He shipped it that same day. The Post Office showed that they had it in their possession on that same date, March 22, 2021. It sat there for weeks. I filed a complaint with the UPS on May 4th, because I tried 20 times to call the West Huntsville, AL post office. Every time, the call would time out because NO ONE picked up the phone ("Your call is important to us!") Bovine Scat!!!

The complaint started in my post office (Florida) and they were able to get things moving in just two days. Now, the item is sitting in the Jacksonville Post Office and I got a call, telling me that it would be here on Tuesday.

I ask you, "Why did I have to file a complaint to get it moving???" But alas, today is not Tuesday. It remains to be seen if it ever arrives...


"Bovine Scat" ?!?

you can use stronger language that that! :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCGvG1ilqQs

"Bovine Scat" ?!?

you can use stronger language that that! :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCGvG1ilqQs

I'll save that language for a better time!!!!!!

BTW, my package is marked "OUT FOR DELIVERY" and I will see when that happens. Fingers crossed.

I've got a good test of the USPS running. Two large and heavy boxes of 78 RPM
records won (at minimum bid prices) at the usual record auction. Shipped by
USPS media mail last Friday. Supposed to arrive by 9 PM tomorrow, Tuesday.
Currently "in transit".

This would be some sort of record for Media Mail.

This is almost on topic: they are played on a period-correct record player also
used as the audio of a pre-war TV, albeit with a replacement 7 gram pickup and
a counterweight.

it DID arrive safely, in spite of FedEx's attempts to destroy it in shipment
https://i.imgur.com/JtGnIXL.jpg

it DOES need an ion trap
https://i.imgur.com/yy8qIUO.jpg


prepped to install
https://i.imgur.com/7KDNdaT.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/tef59wr.jpg
installed... still have to remove safety glass to clean it

I'm, almost ready to stick the chassis in this thing and see what happens with this tube now.

I may have found a way to deal with the weak tuner, not sure if it will last :(

https://i.imgur.com/fus0tzQ.jpg

i noticed that it is clearer in " distant" and if i use an RF amp between the modulator and the input.

then I decided to change R60 from 47k to 120k, this made a major improvement, much more contrast, no more snow in picture, GAIN BOOST,
I have no doubt that R25 is WAY out of tol, but I can't get to it cause it's part of the tuner, the others were replaced ( in the AGC area ) so I will just have to run with this tweak.

now how to figure out how to add a 6th connection to a CRT socket that only has 5 in it right now, and hook it to focus voltage, most likely 75v.

adding the missing line will be easier than I though!
https://i.imgur.com/t4DIo5M.jpg

the 21aup4a wants to be tied to the boost voltage 400+ to focus,
I wont know what the 21fp4c wants until I try it.

https://i.imgur.com/qS8Ih4Z.jpg

i do have to wonder, since the 21aup4a wants 400+ ( tied to pin 4 , boost ) in the SC, will the 21fp4c be the same? or will it need 95v like on pin 5 on the SC, and so on?

https://i.imgur.com/qS8Ih4Z.jpg

i do have to wonder, since the 21aup4a wants 400+ ( tied to pin 4 , boost ) in the SC, will the 21fp4c be the same? or will it need 95v like on pin 5 on the SC, and so on?
One most sets, they specify connecting pin 6 to chassis ground or to boost source though a 100K resistor. GE specs a 135 VDC source.
They all specify, which ever provides best overall focus.

Another common technique is to tie pin #6 to either pins #2 or #10.

Those happen to be equal distance apart and I've seen sets that came with a metal strip with holes in the ends that you would flip one way or the other.

Bottom line, that voltage is not at all critical. You can go from 0 to 400 volts and probably not see much difference.

Another common technique is to tie pin #6 to either pins #2 or #10.

Those happen to be equal distance apart and I've seen sets that came with a metal strip with holes in the ends that you would flip one way or the other.

Bottom line, that voltage is not at all critical. You can go from 0 to 400 volts and probably not see much difference.
Motorola usually furnished that metal strip. When replacing the CRT, I usually reinstalled the strip in the same location as the old tube. Focus was good.

I've seen some sets where the focus wire from the socket goes to a spade connector that plugs into an above chassis terminal strip with chassis ground, various B+ voltages and Boost all available on the strip, and instructions to plug the spade connector on to whichever terminal provides the best focus...It's really a check and go with whatever seems to work best scenario.

I just know that the 21aup4a in the stromberg carlson x-21 needs the 400+ boost st stay focused through the brightness range, anything else, it blurs.
Until last night, while using the CRT as a test subject for the Arvin chassis, the focus pin was unhooked and floating, but when I did, as mentioned, it took 400v to make the tube happy as before.

I will just have to wait and see till I drag the Arvin chassis dowstairs to where the 21fp4c is waiting to see if it will be happy with the same voltage or not.

first test of the 21FP4C
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSrWCYWmja8


its blue! :O
https://i.imgur.com/0ykFyqZ.jpg


edit

how its set up for now
https://i.imgur.com/wAK5ZJd.jpg

I really don't know why it is glowing like that, but I guess it's not a problem, I DO KNOW that it is related to the focus grid, pin 6, because when it's not connected to anything just floating, no blue glow..
But if grounded, or hooked to any voltage, blue glow, even if I grab it with my hands, blue glow.
. Weird.

I still have it in a temporary setup at the moment, none of the perm hardware is on it yet, and when it all is, yoke mounting, pincushion assy, all that jazz, once all that is on, and the fine adjustment of the ion trap and focus done, we shall see, but I guess the blue glow is normal for this, and will stay.

Stray electrons hitting glass likely. If it was air leaked in it would be purple.
Make doubly sure the ion trap is position correctly. If the beam hits metal it can vaporize and cause a burn on the screen.

Stray electrons hitting glass likely. If it was air leaked in it would be purple.
Make doubly sure the ion trap is position correctly. If the beam hits metal it can vaporize and cause a burn on the screen.

I have no reference on this CRT for the trap, other than the standard, brightness all the way down, and position for best display.

https://i.imgur.com/qFxnIqI.jpg

ready to install yoke/ pincushion assembly

Houston, we have a problem!
https://i.imgur.com/3IvjiCQ.jpg
the bell of this CRT is longer than the other, and it does not fit :(

We have a work around!!
https://i.imgur.com/SCIHUoK.jpg

motherboard standoffs

https://i.imgur.com/NBLz7Zf.jpg

all installed

a close look at the weird blue light

https://i.imgur.com/oXmNpN4.jpg

seems i had a dead 5U4GB and never knew it. :scratch2:
only 1 of 2 was working.

So, this weekend's work proved that the 21fp4c does indeed work, with the added benefit of a cool radioactive blue glow at the join line where it was rebuilt, only complication was attaching the mounting bracket for the yoke/ pincushion assembly, I have yet to work out how to deal with lack of centering, as it was originally done with the focus PM, I will have to see what I have in my junk pile from projection tubes.

As for the bad 5u4gb, must have been bad from the start, new one will take a while to get here, is it safe to keep running on 1? grab one from another set?

There is still a bunch of minor suff to do, but it all seems to be working, and I don't think I will be able to get rid of ALL the audio buzz as long as I am using a cable box as source. :(

Sharply-defined blue glowing spots are from stray electron bombardment and not a problem, as opposed to diffuse glow throughout the gun area (indicating gas).

Sharply-defined blue glowing spots are from stray electron bombardment and not a problem, as opposed to diffuse glow throughout the gun area (indicating gas).

I really did not think it was much of a problem, since it seemed to be working OK, I just find it weirdly fascinating as to why it's only glowing near the new section of neck, right at the weld point, and am rather curious about it, if anything else! :)

Just cant get clear sound on the set (buzz) , I was able to get a good picture by boosting gain, but the sound is not clear, not sure if this is because the sound IF coils are still old and have problems, 2 of the video ones were replaced for some reason, or video IF is still wacky, ( intercarrier set ), but the sound just won't clean up completely, good video, however.
So gonna try tuner fed-video and direct audio. :O

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JIbvXzbRUI

latest test

most likely the final configuration

tuner is still bad, chan 3-4 is unstable but 7 seems ok

this is with my home transmitter and audio fed in

Nice!

https://i.imgur.com/IfiWlBX.jpg


all together and in it's final place.

Now that the Arvin is done, I need another TV to restore to feed my addiction, but that is not so easy down here :(

The ETF meet is Saturday....:D. You can find pretty much anything you could want there.

The ETF meet is Saturday....:D. You can find pretty much anything you could want there.

but getting anything from there to here is the problem.... :(

The ETF meet is Saturday....:D. You can find pretty much anything you could want there.

Really?

I want a 21CT55 with a really good great vacuum 21AXP22 or an installed
glass tube retrofit kit.

I'll be there.

Really?

I want a 21CT55 with a really good great vacuum 21AXP22 or an installed
glass tube retrofit kit.

I'll be there.

Yeah.. rub some salt in the wounds , why don't ya! :tears: :D

Sigh, I sill have not been able to find another local TV to feed my restoration addiction yet. :(

Well, i did manage to find something to play with in the meantime, a rc1121a radio.

being sent to me now.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/rca_rc1121a_2xf931.html

series heaters and DEATHTRAP design. :O
I'm sure this was common when it was made, but it's a good way to get someone shocked/ hurt.
https://i.imgur.com/E04YZfR.jpg
you have to wonder WTH were they thinking?

And I have found a potential TV restoration project, but it may be a hopeless case, no idea yet, it appears to be a CRT ( 21 inch bw ) and chassis that was crudely removed from a cabinet for some reason, fish tank or pet bed or something?

I have NO idea if the tube is any good or not, of if the chassis is is savable, but I can't turn down the price $0
I will try to get that this weekend.

Well, i did manage to find something to play with in the meantime, a rc1121a radio.

being sent to me now.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/rca_rc1121a_2xf931.html

series heaters and DEATHTRAP design. :O
I'm sure this was common when it was made, but it's a good way to get someone shocked/ hurt.
https://i.imgur.com/E04YZfR.jpg
you have to wonder WTH were they thinking?

And I have found a potential TV restoration project, but it may be a hopeless case, no idea yet, it appears to be a CRT ( 21 inch bw ) and chassis that was crudely removed from a cabinet for some reason, fish tank or pet bed or something?

I have NO idea if the tube is any good or not, of if the chassis is is savable, but I can't turn down the price $0
I will try to get that this weekend.

By the 1950s the knobs were captive to the cabinet, the chassis bolts thread into nylon insulators on the chassis, and the back prevented touching the chassis....A complete set would have no direct chassis electrical connections exposed and the chassis would have a bleeder resistor that would limit shock to non-lethal levels....not as safe as a transformer but as long as owners don't defeat the safeties and don't bathe with it they'd never know the difference...

Go back to the forties and you get fun stuff like my Sonora radio/phono...the metal toggles for motor power and radio/phono and the metal pickup arm are tied directly to the hot chassis and you get to choose whether you want them to shock you with the power off or the power on.

By the 1950s the knobs were captive to the cabinet, the chassis bolts thread into nylon insulators on the chassis, and the back prevented touching the chassis....A complete set would have no direct chassis electrical connections exposed and the chassis would have a bleeder resistor that would limit shock to non-lethal levels....not as safe as a transformer but as long as owners don't defeat the safeties and don't bathe with it they'd never know the difference...

Go back to the forties and you get fun stuff like my Sonora radio/phono...the metal toggles for motor power and radio/phono and the metal pickup arm are tied directly to the hot chassis and you get to choose whether you want them to shock you with the power off or the power on.


but was it really so safe to be 1 missing knob or leaky cap from getting the crap shocked out of ya?

something like that could never be sold to day, I'm sure! :p

...
something like that could never be sold to day, I'm sure! :pAnd sets in Australia during this time period, being 240 volts almost always were transformer sets. Quite a different era.

the radio came today :)

first thing I did was put the dial cord back on.. FUN FUN!

and I saw that it had been worked on before
https://i.imgur.com/MwglCyb.jpg

this is a NO NO!

you don't just bridge the bad selenium rectifier...:scratch2:

got a little bored, so started to look at that old RCA radio, and i can't believe what i am seeing.:no:
https://i.imgur.com/cb6DSOo.jpg
someone made a mess of it..

someone tacked in a Silicon rectifier in parallel to the selenium rectifier m1, C1a failed, but was NOT removed from the circuit, it was originally a 80uf 180v, they have in there now a 80uf 450v in parallel, R29 has been replaced with a 3 OHM 5 WATT resistor, meaning that B+ was way way too high, and all the paper caps are still in it.

it's any wonder the damn thing did not catch on fire!

I couldn't tell you how many instances I saw of silicon diodes bridged across selenium rectifiers. Many techs were too lazy to mount a single terminal strip on which to mount the silicon diodes.

I couldn't tell you how many instances I saw of silicon diodes bridged across selenium rectifiers.

Yeah, with the selenium still in-circuit, it's susceptable to reverse leakage and possible overheating.

What really confuses me is why the hell is the 3 ohm resistor in there? When SAMs shows it to be 22, it must seem that who ever had it had no clue as to what they were doing, and as the bias voltage dropped when the selenium rectifier started to fail, tried to put in a smaller value to adjust for it, and when the silicon was put in, never adjusted with a larger value for the higher efficiency of the silicon rectifier.
I wonder what other fun mistakes there are to find in it! :)

Anyway, it's just something to keep me entertained until it is cool enough outside to build the cabinet for my magnavox project. :P

The selenium bridged is a bad but common practice.

Personally I see nothing wrong with that lytic. I only stock 2 voltages of lytic 160V and 450V (except occasional cases where 200V in a capacitance value happens to be cheaper than 160V) and anything over 160V just about always gets replaced with 450V (except odd cases like 250uF 200V doubler caps where I don't stock something that will work and have to order a part).

The selenium bridged is a bad but common practice.

Personally I see nothing wrong with that lytic. I only stock 2 voltages of lytic 160V and 450V (except occasional cases where 200V in a capacitance value happens to be cheaper than 160V) and anything over 160V just about always gets replaced with 450V (except odd cases like 250uF 200V doubler caps where I don't stock something that will work and have to order a part).


it's proving to be quite fun indeed.

the old grey Nichicon cap was leaky, the 80uf they had in there, after removing the selenium stack, i put power to it through a 15 ohm 2 watt resistor, and the resistor fried., so that cap has been tossed an new caps put in, and replaced most papers.
this is where the real fun started.

As I still do not know what to replace that 22 ohm main line resistor with ( where the fool had the 3 ohm) I put in a 30 for now, till I can work out what it needs, turned on to watch the fireworks!
tubes lit up, no sound but a faint hum.

https://i.imgur.com/s9aDDXz.jpg

b+ was about 165v
started to smell something HOT!
IR camera said that r28 is very VERY hot.
b+ goes to the center tap of the audio x-fomer and is fed to that resistor, SHOULD be 100v/90v depending on AM/FM, it was 35v, not good!

shut down, pulled audio output tube, there was now 165v on both sides of r28, plugged it back in with it on, instant drop to 35v.
AUDIO OUTPUT BAD!

The fool blew it up by over biasing it... :thumbsdn: :tears:

its alive a little

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSzGC29wpLE


AM barely working but is WAY off freq.

FM worked for a few min
will most likely have to change resistors AND the caps in the IF cans :(
prob has silver mica disease.

yeah i know this is the wrong form for this but :D

Slight horizontal linearity issue now. :o

As you may or may not recall with this set, when I first got it, the 21EP4 was necked when the seller moved it from storage when I came to pick it up, and thanks to DJ here on the forums, I was able to get a rebuilt 21FP4, which is pretty much an exact replacement deflection angle wise and electronically, however, slightly dif in size, but this was no big deal, fixed with small spacers.

Face to yoke ref-line.
21FP4 - 15 1/2 (+-3/16)
21EP4 - 15 17/32 (+-3/16)
Which should have had no effect on functionality whatsoever, I'm sure!

The set has been working fine for over 2+ years now, however I did notice that compared to the Hoffman Super Receiver Mark V next to it, the display on it was much MUCH wider, I never did adjust it. :(

So, with a tweaking tool I was able to adjust the horizontal width coil out ( way WAY out) to where it was close to my other sets.
My guess is, as the set got older and older with the paper caps over the years, it was losing width, and they kept cranking up and up to compensate, but with new caps, it's no longer needed to be like that.

But now that I have the width down where it should be, the horizontal linearity is a bit off, which can be seen especially with text scrolling on the screen, more narrow at the L/R edges, and wider in the middle, looks weird! :P

I have not tried to adjust the horizontal linearity yet, as where the horizontal width coil is very easy to reach from the back, the linearity coil is more of a pain to reach, as it's deep in the HV box, there is a hole in the back of the set to reach in and adjust, but it's not easy to get to.

But I'm assuming that this SHOULD be able to be adjusted to where it's equal across the screen.

Linearity usually affects left side vs. right side. If both edges are too narrow or too wide compared with the middle, this is usually due to the size of "S correction" capacitor in series with the yoke. I can't recall off the top of my head which makes the sides narrower, smaller S cap or bigger, but I think it's smaller for narrower sides.

You could try jumpering a small cap (10% of existing one) across the existing one to see how things change.

I guess I didn't describe it very well. :(

what I'm seeing on the screen is pretty much bilateral, it just was not noticed until the width was drastically lowered, wider in the center and more narrow on the very edges.

Which may be caused by 1 or more of 2 things I have yet to try and adjust.

Horizontal linearity and horizontal drive.

http://suzaku.live-evil.org/arvin-h.jpg

Horizontal lock / frequency / hold seems to be right where they need to be, no issue there.

Horizontal drive, adjust CW as far as pos w/o presence of vert white line or compression in center.
Too far CCW perhaps? Could that do it?

Or, Horizontal linearity just needs to be touched up as well, as mentioned, the coil B4 is not as easy to reach as the width and drive adjustments are, but there IS a hole in the back cover to stick a tool into the HV cage to adjust horizontal linearity, which I will try this weekend as I'm tending to think it's that adjustment over the drive, although it may be both, not sure.

Yeah that was it.

http://suzaku.live-evil.org/0203241301a.jpg

moderate adjustment of Horizontal linearity a very slight change in drive.

it's now equal across the screen. :banana::D

Coincidence or not? :D

Of all my working BW sets, this Arvin happens to be the only one i can see snow on the screen W/O any RF input, it's just also the only and first one that I attempted an IF alignment on, using an RF generator and voltmeter.

Took me 4 tries, but it seems I got it right! :banana: