Working on a TS-912 chassis (roundie). Temp clipped in power supply caps and replaced H output tubes. I have HV but no raster. The CRT cathode volts are way high and the 695 Sams shows a very spartan brightness circuit, all cathodes tied together and completely isolated video feed from the video output via a .5uf cap. The DC path is a 180k resistor on the CRT side going to the middle of the brightness control that is connected to ground and 275v . The reality is there is a neon lamp and a 10k resistor across the .5uf cap and the brightness control isn't wired like the Sams shows. The 180k resistor is a 240k 2 watt resistor. 2 watt seems a bit hefty for just biasing the CRT cathodes.
I'm going to have to pull the front controls out and chase wires.

Has anyone got an idea how this should be wired? Is there an updated schematic or Motorola update to explain this diversion? From what I have been able to peek at the brightness control is not wired like the Sams indicates. Also the neon bulb is lit. I would think this was for a discharge condition of some kind.

Look'in for some good insight on this.

Schematic clip added and folded for easier viewing.

Working on a TS-912 chassis (roundie). Temp clipped in power supply caps and replaced H output tubes. I have HV but no raster. The CRT cathode volts are way high and the 695 Sams shows a very spartan brightness circuit, all cathodes tied together and completely isolated video feed from the video output via a .5uf cap. The DC path is a 180k resistor on the CRT side going to the middle of the brightness control that is connected to ground and 275v . The reality is there is a neon lamp and a 10k resistor across the .5uf cap and the brightness control isn't wired like the Sams shows. The 180k resistor is a 240k 2 watt resistor. 2 watt seems a bit hefty for just biasing the CRT cathodes.
I'm going to have to pull the front controls out and chase wires.

Has anyone got an idea how this should be wired? Is there an updated schematic or Motorola update to explain this diversion? From what I have been able to peek at the brightness control is not wired like the Sams indicates. Also the neon bulb is lit. I would think this was for a discharge condition of some kind.

Look'in for some good insight on this.

That set is a real gem! I only seen one like it. It is rare and a short production model. Looks like they used shortcuts to see how cheap they could build a color TV.
The set uses strange tubes as used in a European or British TV design.
It's worth hanging on to for awhile. :D

What voltage swing do you get at the wiper of the brt. control, rotating stop-to-stop?

Also, make sure you have focus voltage. Low or no focus voltage will sometimes cause no raster at all in a color set.

I can assume the CRT has been short/ emission tested?

one could guess that NE bulb is in there as a safety feature, but that's just a wild shot in the dark.

the RCA-CTC-10 also has something like it in the same area.
https://www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/rca_ctc10_sams_517-2.pdf

SORT of what you discribe

To be more precise, it sort of looks like an odd cross between an RCA CTC-10 & 11, while cutting as many corners to save money as they could...

Cathode 245 - 341
G1 155
G2 670

Focus 4.5 KV
2 nd Anode 24 KV


Cathode needs to come down. Really wish I had a better schematic for this. If the jug was smaller and compactrons were used this could have been the forerunner to a Porta-Color with it's bare bones approach to circuitry.

Yes the CRT was tested by the owner, a VK user, and he says the emission was fairly good. These numbers just don't look good at the CRT.

You will most likely have break out an o-scope, and see in there is waveforms on the cathodes and G1s that's anything near what is shown in the SAMs , from what I understand, ( could be wrong ) there has to be SOME sort of signal there for you to see something on the screen, with the exception of G2 and focus, which is just direct bias driven.

G1 is where color information would be added. With no color or signal the present voltage should be OK. The cathode voltage should be something less than G1 I believe.

Example, this is what is going to my GE color roundie G1, with color turned down, (21fjp22) https://imgur.com/BSJ5KpG
and color up
https://i.imgur.com/5eI2bqn.jpg

IF I pull the horizontal blanking tube or the Y-AMPS, I-E anything to cause it to stop that pulse from getting to G1, I lose raster, BUT, can still get a dim line when setup switch is in service mode, ( no vert )
I have seen the same thing happen if I pull the 1st video amp tube, I lost all raster, same with the video output tube, it had loose socket contacts, and had a habit of losing heater voltage, AGAIN, when it did, I lost raster, but voltage did not change much at the cathodes or G1, this tells me that voltages alone are not enough to get a full raster, at least from what I have seen, are you able to get a line on the screen if you set it to service mode?

A good example is this,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpOD9g2dKjY

the crt was getting HV and some voltages 400 and up, but due to a LV power fail, it was missing signals that it needed to display anything, and would only show a line in setup mode.

Cathode 245 - 341
G1 155
Cathode needs to come down.

No kidding. the G1s are 'waay too negative with respect to cathode, so the guns are biased 'waay beyond cutoff.

W/O seeing the full schematic, or knowing how the set is wired, one can only guess, looking at the CTC 10/11, the cathodes are balanced with 360v pull-up and ground through power resistors respectively, but, it's also controlled by the video output, and thus the reason I'm saying check waveforms, for w/o any output from video output, cathodes will not run correctly.

In the schematic clip you'll notice the only dc path is thru the brightness control that has 275 v and ground. The wiper goes thru a 180k resistor to the cathodes. The signal path is thru a .5uf cap. In a perfect Sams world the cathode potential should vary and at some point give raster. The reality is, the set doesn't follow Sams. One end of the bright cont has never had a connection soldered to it, spurring on my suspicion the schematic is not correct. Thats why Im hopeing for a better schematic or bulletin.

. One end of the bright cont has never had a connection soldered to it.

:saywhat::eek:

Then that's why the control is not working. The low end has to go to ground per the schematic. Once the low end is grounded, voltage at the wiper should swing smoothly from 275V down to near zero when you rotate the control (provided the resistance element has continuity end-to-end).

I would disconnect one end of that neon bulb too, just to keep it out of circuit for now. Its sole function is probably just a safety 'spark gap'.

Absolutely no DC coupling for the luma, and a brightness control that appears to swing over way too wide a range (when connected as shown in SAMS). What the bleep were they thinking?

(Using the Sams rendition of the circuit) it should be easy enough to customize the brt.range by adding series resistors on both ends of the brt.control.

There is a factory schematic and even a chapter for this TS-912 in the Motorola Service Manual (TAB books) and authored by Forrest Belt. Ill have a look at that for you.

If I could trade one of my RCA 21's for this TV, it sure would keep me busy. What an interesting one-off design, however "muntzed" it was.

Here's the schematic from Belt.

You can see how the neon bulb and a resistor were added to provide some DC coupling, along with other production changes.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50597715738_4b42086dea_o.jpg

This schematic is GREAT! This will help me with the process. Already I see the 'Alternate" brightness control circuit which at a glance explains the current setup. I'm also going to test the video output tube again seeing it is purpose is going to pull down the plate volts that also get past the coupling cap via the neon bulb on the way to the CRT cathodes. The 270 volts that feed the video out stage winds up at about 100 volts at the tube plate, seems like this is worked pretty hard. Thanks so much. Ill keep y'all posted and include some photos in the future.

That is the craziest schematic I think I have even seen. Muntz would have been proud of this baby, full of European tubes and left over B&W tubes. I think The last time I saw parallel HOTs and dampers was in some late 40s B&W sets when they were trying to drive a 14" tube with a 10" chassis.

It's obvious why they changed the brightness control circuitry. In the first runs, they probably had considerable interaction between the contrast and the brightness controls. The version you have should have virtually no interaction as the contrast control no longer affects the DC bias on the cathode of the video output stage.

I was trying to figure out how the HV was regulated. It looks like they have a feedback circuitry going to the HOT grid circuit so when the HV goes down, the HOT grid voltage is changed so that the HOT stage is driven harder. I also noted two focus circuits. One has a separate rectifier and looks fairly conventional. The other one is just a big voltage divider chain with the HV rectifier.

I can't wait to see how this one turns out.

That is the craziest schematic I think I have even seen. Muntz would have been proud of this baby, full of European tubes and left over B&W tubes. I think The last time I saw parallel HOTs and dampers was in some late 40s B&W sets when they were trying to drive a 14" tube with a 10" chassis.

It's obvious why they changed the brightness control circuitry. In the first runs, they probably had considerable interaction between the contrast and the brightness controls. The version you have should have virtually no interaction as the contrast control no longer affects the DC bias on the cathode of the video output stage.

I was trying to figure out how the HV was regulated. It looks like they have a feedback circuitry going to the HOT grid circuit so when the HV goes down, the HOT grid voltage is changed so that the HOT stage is driven harder. I also noted two focus circuits. One has a separate rectifier and looks fairly conventional. The other one is just a big voltage divider chain with the HV rectifier.

I can't wait to see how this one turns out.

I'm glad you said something, It was giving me a headache trying to work it out, I gave up, and poured my self a ultra strong James Bond style vodka martini, and watched shango066 videos to relax! :D

Definitely eccentric.

Parallel dampers and outputs were used in the Westinghouses first color TV and RCAs frirst 21" color broadcast monitor... definitely an uncommon touch in color sets though.

There is a factory schematic and even a chapter for this TS-912 in the Motorola Service Manual (TAB books) and authored by Forrest Belt. Ill have a look at that for you.

If I could trade one of my RCA 21's for this TV, it sure would keep me busy. What an interesting one-off design, however "muntzed" it was.

I saw one of those in my time of repairing. A friend got one as a freebee. The two H.O tubes were missing. That model used the 12GC6's. They weren't that common of a tube. After I sourced them and installed them, the set worked reasonably well, but the CRT was a bit weak. He sold the set cheap! That's all I remember after almost 50 years. :sigh:
There was a Sears, Warwick built set, that was a real oddball. It was a cheapie round CRT, metal table model that I only seen one of. It had a bad CRT and flyback, so it was scrapped. That one is rare also. :scratch2:

I'm sure many manufacturers had one very spartan set at a price that got people in the showroom. Once they were in there, the customers would see the nicer TVs (at higher prices) and the salesman has a good opportunity to sell up.

I had a 19" Magnavox table model in a metal cabinet that was given to me in the mid 80s. It was a Japanese manufactured set of the mid 70s. The only thing wrong was a 6J6 in the tuner with a bad filament. All of the other tubes were original and I never had to change any more tubes while I owned it. The only other part I replaced was an electrolytic in the voltage doubler circuit. Over ten years of service with only one tube and one capacitor replaced.

That set is not anywhere near Muntzed. Its just very very oddball.

A Muntzed set has far fewer desoupling resistior and caps, and far
fewer parts overall.

The IF amp, however, is very chintzy. It looks like it was designed to avoid
patent royalties. It does have a very strange European look. Europeans were
very strange: thyratrons for horizontal oscillators!

That set is not anywhere near Muntzed. Its just very very oddball.

A Muntzed set has far fewer desoupling resistior and caps, and far
fewer parts overall.

The IF amp, however, is very chintzy. It looks like it was designed to avoid
patent royalties. It does have a very strange European look. Europeans were
very strange: thyratrons for horizontal oscillators!
The IF strip has two stages of IF, using the frame grid tubes like other US manufacturers. Zenith used three in the better models.
RCA used two stages of IF in several models.
That model Motorola set seems to be the for-runner to the TS914,18,21 chassis.

Speaking of sets with parallel HOT's, Admiral's first rectangular featuring infamous 23EGP22, used two 6JM6 in the one version and later a single 6KD6.

Speaking of sets with parallel HOT's, Admiral's first rectangular featuring infamous 23EGP22, used two 6JM6 in the one version and later a single 6KD6.
The Motorola ETS908 used two 6JM6's. They lasted the entire ten years I used the set. That chassis also used a 6BK4 regulator and a 1V2 focus rectifier.
That set was really easy on tubes.
BTW, I talked with a technician about flyback transformers in Motorola sets. He said RCA sells more flybacks in a week than Motorola sells in a year. :D