I just received the License plate renewal from my 2011 Toyota Prius.
The cost of renewal increased by $75.00 for a hybrid car. I drive quite a bit, so I do use fuel. BTW, I have three other cars, all US built.
The excuse the state uses is the roads are in such poor condition and they have to collect more road-use and fuel taxes. :sigh:
It's probably the last Hybrid I'm going to own. :scratch2:

That's a bit of a bummer. "the roads are in such poor condition and they have to collect more road-use and fuel taxes" sounds like a bad excuse for poor management at the state and local levels. My big heavy pig of a truck costs less to renew, but I don't DD it for obvious reasons.

Maybe trade it for a 392 Challenger, because Smiles Per Gallon > Miles Per Gallon.

The state has been complaining about hybrids and fuel efficient cars decreasing fuel tax revenue for a while now... It's kinda hilarious to see a Democrat governor implementing a tax that disincentivizes hybrid ownership.

Hopefully he manages to use it to improve the roads rather than purely as the cash grab I expect it to be...for the over 20 years I have lived and vacationed in this state road maintenance has been the upper end of mediocre at best...Evers got in on pledging to fix the roads, with his nutty response to covid and no other accomishments of note if he doesn't fix the roads he probably ain't gonna get a second term...

From what I understand most of the road issues are from unelected DOT beaurocrats....a few years ago the DOT and a municipality were at war because DOT wanted to ram a roundabout down their throats...the Dot. Wants to put those monstrosities everywhere and motorists universally hate them...they even wasted millions on add campaigns trying to explain to drivers how to navigate one...I wonder how much road work that campaign robbed funding from...

The State Highway Administration forced a roundabout down our throats many years ago; no public hearing or anything, just showed up one day with the equipment and a couple weeks later, there it was. I hated it...but in time I've come to sorta kinda appreciate it, a little. Too many people don't know what to do, though. Many get in the circle, then yield to everyone else, I'd I've seen at least one person go around backwards!

In France until fairly recently the rule on roundabouts was for traffic on the roundabout to give way to entering traffic. Sheer madness. In the UK we've had loads of roundabouts for years and we're well used to them. Of course we drive round them the correct way. Unless those in the USA:)

but we've got some really special ones too. I'm most familiar with this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempstead)

I don't know what the guy who designed it was smoking but it must have been some seriously nasty stuff.

What confuses us in the USA is the 4 way stop. We get a little taste of it on very small roundabouts here in the UK (usually 3 way rather than 4) where everyone is stopped and wondering who should move first.

That's a bit of a bummer. "the roads are in such poor condition and they have to collect more road-use and fuel taxes" sounds like a bad excuse for poor management at the state and local levels. My big heavy pig of a truck costs less to renew, but I don't DD it for obvious reasons.

Maybe trade it for a 392 Challenger, because Smiles Per Gallon > Miles Per Gallon.
I always said, "If I could own only one car, it would a Dodge Challenger with the smaller Hemi V-8." I can't see a sporty car with four doors. It has to be a Coupe! They're calling a four door car a "Charger". :sigh:
I seriously thinking of selling the Prius, before paying the renewal!

In France until fairly recently the rule on roundabouts was for traffic on the roundabout to give way to entering traffic. Sheer madness. In the UK we've had loads of roundabouts for years and we're well used to them. Of course we drive round them the correct way. Unless those in the USA:)

but we've got some really special ones too. I'm most familiar with this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempstead)

I don't know what the guy who designed it was smoking but it must have been some seriously nasty stuff.

What confuses us in the USA is the 4 way stop. We get a little taste of it on very small roundabouts here in the UK (usually 3 way rather than 4) where everyone is stopped and wondering who should move first.

I refer to roundabouts as "Penny Lane Things". :D

In France until fairly recently the rule on roundabouts was for traffic on the roundabout to give way to entering traffic. Sheer madness. In the UK we've had loads of roundabouts for years and we're well used to them. Of course we drive round them the correct way. Unless those in the USA:)

but we've got some really special ones too. I'm most familiar with this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempstead)

I don't know what the guy who designed it was smoking but it must have been some seriously nasty stuff.

What confuses us in the USA is the 4 way stop. We get a little taste of it on very small roundabouts here in the UK (usually 3 way rather than 4) where everyone is stopped and wondering who should move first.

The 4 way stop is basically a turn based system. On paper only one car at a time is supposed to through and on a first come first serve basis. Approach stop wait your turn and go....there are many with so little traffic that some do a rolling stop (almost stop fully but don't since nobody is close enough to the intersection to blow the sign and hit you)... sometimes if nobody is behind someone they will skip their turn and let someone go first when timing of coming to a stop is similar.

Around here a common but not necessarily legal practice is to double the bandwidth of a 4 way intersection...if the intersection has several cars lined up at each sign and it is the turn of say one the north driver to go north south and if the south driver wants to go south to north they may start to go once the first car who's turn it is is half way through (thus ruling out failure to signal or burnt out signal)... Some times someone will go straight and someone else will turn on a non-interfering path. Or in some cases 2 non interfering turns will happen almost simultaneously...as long as everyone signals properly and the second car watches for a vehicle from the usually one non-interfering path that a car other than the person who's turn it is could come from it works fine...If it doesn't work legal ground is shaky for the car(s) who's turn it wasn't. Most busy intersections have stop lights that control straight and left turns and many allow right Turners to yield (remember traffic is reversed in the UK :D).... Double bandwith driving on 4 way stop signs is similar flow to lights.... several signs close to home tend to opperate double bandwith on rush hour so I often follow the when in Rome guide line.


A lot of people in the states suck at judging distance and speed as well as adjusting speed to properly merge so something like a roundabout or the ramp lane of a highway are places we don't like to be.

I don't think I saw a roundabout till I was 20 years old....they were basically non-existent till dot engineers suddenly started putting them everywhere.

What confuses us in the USA is the 4 way stop. We get a little taste of it on very small roundabouts here in the UK (usually 3 way rather than 4) where everyone is stopped and wondering who should move first.

Like anything, it's not confusing if you're used to it. The right of way states that the car that stopped first gets to proceed first. If two or more cars stop at the same time, the one furthest right goes first, then the next furthest right, and so on. Four cars from four directions all stopping at exactly the same time is a problem, because nobody knows who goes first, but it happens so rarely that it's hardly an issue.

The only real issue with this system is that people are so stupid that they don't understand the right of way, which is literally one of the biggest and most important rules to know. Also, a lot of people think like you won't stop for them, so they stop, even if they are halfway through the intersection. In which case, if you actually were not going to stop, you'd T-bone them. This is why my car has a very loud horn. It's for letting people know they are being dumb.

We have unmarked crossroads here in England where no one has the right of way, you crawl across them ready to hit the brakes. When I was a driving instructor I loved to take my pupils to them to see what they'd do, some just froze in fear, lol. When traffic lights conk out at a crossroads it then becomes an unmarked crossroads, mind you chaos usually ensures...

The challenging thing I find at intersections is people trying to be "nice". It's not really helping. People will interrupt the flow and regulations of a 4-way stop, for instance, by extending a 'you go first' courtesy to cars that most definitely do not have the right of way. Basically, if you take their offer, and they decide to hit you, you're in the wrong. If one has the right of way, take it, and get on with it. Sitting in the middle of an intersection waving some one thru is confusing to all involved, observers included. Young drivers get the idea that the right of way belongs to whoever is less nice. Not a good thing.

Growing up in Dayton Ohio, we had a big 'traffic circle' that was acres in scope. Wagner Ford Road, North Dixie area. Interesting place to go for driver's ed class...

We have unmarked crossroads here in England where no one has the right of way, you crawl across them ready to hit the brakes. When I was a driving instructor I loved to take my pupils to them to see what they'd do, some just froze in fear, lol. When traffic lights conk out at a crossroads it then becomes an unmarked crossroads, mind you chaos usually ensures...

Most stop lights in the US have folding stop signs for when the power goes out or the controller fails....police will fold the sign open then the intersection officially becomes a 4 way stop...you are technically supposed to treat it as one if the light is out or flashing green or red (flashing yellow can sometimes be a deliberately programmed yield when rush hour has passed).

I don't think I have ever seen an unmarked cross roads on any public road here in the US... every public cross road down to the most desolate dirt road so far out you'll be lucky to get daytime AM radio usually has a sign...
Private roads are a horse of a different color (though ones where more people than the land owner are expected to visit often have signs to prevent accidents).

I don't think I saw a roundabout till I was 20 years old....they were basically non-existent till dot engineers suddenly started putting them everywhere. We had one on Dallas from as far back as I remember ('50s) until 1979 when it got replaced with a huge mutilevel interchange. Known as the "Harry Hines Circle" back then. Not aware of any more in Dallas but a few smaller towns have installed "roundabouts" to try and "calm" traffic.

An old aerial view from 1965...

http://www.videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=201032&stc=1&d=1591292693

As for who as the right of way at a 4-way stop, when two or more vehicles stop at the same time, the vehicle to your right has it.


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The challenging thing I find at intersections is people trying to be "nice". It's not really helping. People will interrupt the flow and regulations of a 4-way stop, for instance, by extending a 'you go first' courtesy to cars that most definitely do not have the right of way. Basically, if you take their offer, and they decide to hit you, you're in the wrong. If one has the right of way, take it, and get on with it. Sitting in the middle of an intersection waving some one thru is confusing to all involved, observers included. Young drivers get the idea that the right of way belongs to whoever is less nice. Not a good thing.

My point exactly.

Electronic M wrote: "I don't think I have ever seen an unmarked cross roads on any public road here in the US..."

There's actually (at least) one in the sprawling metropolis of Columbus, Ohio. A T-intersection, not a true crossroads, though. The intersection of Millennium Court and Citygate Drive (both real, named streets, not driveways) has no stop sign, yield sign, or anything. Ohio law dictates a stop (sign or not) when going from a lesser to greater street, based on memory from... umm... let's say 40+ years ago. But I think it's interesting since it's near a post office and definitely not an unused road.

Streetview here: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0173021,-82.9220107,3a,75y,90.11h,83.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shIqpFOyX7mCtGV5jkBl0AA!2e0!7i1 6384!8i8192?hl=en

That's a bit of a bummer. "the roads are in such poor condition and they have to collect more road-use and fuel taxes" sounds like a bad excuse for poor management at the state and local levels. My big heavy pig of a truck costs less to renew, but I don't DD it for obvious reasons.

Maybe trade it for a 392 Challenger, because Smiles Per Gallon > Miles Per Gallon.
The Prius is history!
I'm not going to give the state the satisfaction of getting $75.00 more out of
me. It has too many miles and it's starting to cost me money for repairs. :sigh:

The Prius is history!
I'm not going to give the state the satisfaction of getting $75.00 more out of
me. It has too many miles and it's starting to cost me money for repairs. :sigh:
Good. They are expensive things to repair. Hybrids are basically just normal cars with a bunch of extra parts to break. Reliability is a function of the number of parts, and the failure chance of each part. I know some people think that's it only has a motor-generator and a battery extra. lolno.

Good. They are expensive things to repair. Hybrids are basically just normal cars with a bunch of extra parts to break. Reliability is a function of the number of parts, and the failure chance of each part. I know some people think that's it only has a motor-generator and a battery extra. lolno.
Actually, the car was pretty reliable! Right now, it has 160K miles.
I know about the theory of operation, the AC motor drive and what powers the air conditioner, power steering ETC.
BTW, it's my second used Prius. It was an auction car from IL. :D

The State Highway Administration forced a roundabout down our throats many years ago; no public hearing or anything, just showed up one day with the equipment and a couple weeks later, there it was. I hated it...but in time I've come to sorta kinda appreciate it, a little. Too many people don't know what to do, though. Many get in the circle, then yield to everyone else, I'd I've seen at least one person go around backwards!

Dude. MARYLAND drivers!!!

They're nuts...

Actually, the car was pretty reliable! Right now, it has 160K miles.
I know about the theory of operation, the AC motor drive and what powers the air conditioner, power steering ETC.
BTW, it's my second used Prius. It was an auction car from IL. :D

Nice. Admittedly, they do seem pretty reliable in practice. Still, though.

Nice. Admittedly, they do seem pretty reliable in practice. Still, though.

I'm rather principled, when I'm getting penalized for being conservative, I won't reward them for shoving it up my backside!
I misread where I thought, the increase would only apply to a new purchase. Fools and their money soon part. :thumbsdn:

Dude. MARYLAND drivers!!!

They're nuts...

The grass is always browner :) I say that about PA drivers!

So I was working on a 2006 Lexus RX400h hybrid today. I can't believe the stupidity of the braking system. Hybrids, like the prius, usually have a totally electric braking system. A motor pumps fluid into a reservoir to keep pressure up, and pressing the brake allows some of that pressure to the brakes. It's more complicated than a normal car's brakes, but ok.

This Lexus has that system... for the back brakes only. For the front brakes, it has a traditional master cylinder. And also apparently a device called a 'stroke simulator' to either push the brake by itself or provide power assist for you, or both. Not to mention the ABS part of it, which is integral with the electric pump. Absurdly complicated. And, obviously, broken.