Hi all,

I thought sharing this might be beneficial to y'all. Like many people here I can't stand the black bars that appear alongside, or on top of, the image when using a converter box.

A few years ago I found a partial workaround that eliminated the problem, providing the video was 16:9. A HDMI to composite converter with a zoom function enabled the 16:9 image to fit the 4:3 screen with no black bars, although a small part of it was cut off.

This worked fine for the most part with my Apple TV. Much of the content on Netflix and Amazon Prime is 16:9, as are many YouTube videos. But when something with a 4:3 aspect ratio is converted to 16:9, it displays as a square with those annoying black bars flanking it. Unfortunately, most older content online has this problem, and by and large that's what I watch on my TVs.

For a while I just grudging accepted this as the way things were going to be, but then I happened to stumble upon this thread:

http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=266358

In it Kamakiri has success using an Extron IN1502 scaler to eliminate the black bars at the top and bottom of the screen. Meant for converting a composite signal to RGB (VGA connector) for use with a monitor, the scaler has a wide range of picture adjustments that can help with video issues. Another converter is necessary to re-convert the output back to composite again.

The box does eliminate the black bars at the top and bottom of the screen, but frustratingly the horizontal size adjustment maxes out before the sides of the screen can be filled. Thankfully, the VGA to composite converters sold on eBay have picture adjustments of their own, and by changing those settings I was able to eliminate most, but not all, of the black area around the image. By experimenting with the zoom function on the HDMI converter, and tweaking the settings on the other two boxes, I can get a 4:3 video to display correctly on my TVs and declare victory over those annoying black bars!

It's rather kludgy but it does work. The Extron scaler, HDMI converter with zoom, and PC to composite converter get the job done with some tinkering. When I want to watch videos with a native 16:9 resolution, I switch the scaler and VGA converter out of the circuit - it's quicker and easier than messing with the settings.

Anyway, the whole setup cost less than $75 on eBay, and is well worth the investment if you want 4:3 videos to display correctly.


-Tim

So how is the picture geometry? Say the shot is of the setting sun, and the camera pans across left to right, and out of frame. Does the sun remain circular for the entire shot? Is everything that was in 'safe action' area remain visible as well?

So how is the picture geometry? Say the shot is of the setting sun, and the camera pans across left to right, and out of frame. Does the sun remain circular for the entire shot? Is everything that was in 'safe action' area remain visible as well?

I'll admit that I'm pretty happy just getting rid of the bars, and so I haven't paid too much attention to the picture geometry. However I will say everything looks about as it should, with no obvious (to me) distortion of the picture.

One of the things I didn't like about 16:9 was having part of the image cut off, but I considered it a fair trade for having a full screen. When I was setting up the scaler, I was careful to ensure the image filled the screen and nothing got cut off.

The screenshot I attached isn't the best but hopefully it answers some of your questions. I'll do some tests and comparisons when I get a chance and post my findings here.


-Tim

Please specify the brands and models of the all the gear you have assembled for this.

Please specify the brands and models of the all the gear you have assembled for this.


HDMI converter:

(Unbranded) model HDV-960

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HDCVT-HDV-960-4Kx2K-HDMI-to-AV-Converter/192151027355?hash=item2cbd17fe9b:g:GyYAAOSwB-



Composite to VGA:

Extron IN1502

https://www.extron.com/mobile/products/product.aspx?id=in1502#aspnetForm


This has been discontinued but there are plenty on eBay for $25-$30.



VGA to composite:

Sewell SW-23000 PC to TV Converter

This has been discontinued but I imagine one of these generic converters would do the job:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PC-VGA-to-TV-AV-RCA-Composite-Box-S-Video-Converter-Adapter-w-Cable/323364605774?hash=item4b4a084f4e:g:dr4AAOSw9W5bVx2 6




Edit: Forgot to mention- you need a BNC to RCA adapter in order to use the Extron scaler.

I hear ya buddy...... I hate letterbox as well!!!!!!!


Good luck and thanx for sharing :)

I watch a lot of older TV programs ('50s-'70s era) which were filmed or taped in 4:3 aspect ratio; this, of course, will result in the black bars on either side of the picture on either CRT TVs or modern flat screens. I have a 32" flat screen, which shows the bars either at both sides of the picture, at the top and bottom of said picture, or both (the last occurring almost exclusively on commercials, which I ignore anyway). My solution is simply to change the TV's aspect ratio setting to "zoom", which causes the picture to fill the screen; however, parts of the image will be cut off, as was noted by one person here. This can be annoying, but it is the only way to get a full-screen picture on a flat screen when watching older shows which were filmed or taped long before the digital TV era.

For anyone who owns the HDV-960 HDMI converter listed above, does it letterbox its output or horizontally squeeze it?

I see the button on it labelled “Ratio” — does that allow you to choose how the output is displayed? If so, what are the modes/choices?

Thank you!

If your HDMI source is not being split to a HDMI TV and the HDMI to composite converter many disc players and other HDMI sources have options to configure the aspect ratio sent to the converter.

If your HDMI source is not being split to a HDMI TV and the HDMI to composite converter many disc players and other HDMI sources have options to configure the aspect ratio sent to the converter.


Right, but the source I’m using is a current-generation Roku, and they have firmly decided to eliminate the option of choosing aspect ratio, since they discontinued the models which have native composite output. Hence the quandary I’m in.

Right, but the source I’m using is a current-generation Roku, and they have firmly decided to eliminate the option of choosing aspect ratio, since they discontinued the models which have native composite output. Hence the quandary I’m in.

I've heard that even the new ones can be put into a developer mode that unlocks many additional menus including 4x3 aspect ratio.

I've heard that even the new ones can be put into a developer mode that unlocks many additional menus including 4x3 aspect ratio.


I'll investigate that and report back. Thanks for the tip.

I've heard that even the new ones can be put into a developer mode that unlocks many additional menus including 4x3 aspect ratio.


Well, I've done my research as well as hands-on testing, and it seems that this used to be possible, but not anymore in the latest versions of the firmware. There was an option in one of the secret menus called "enable selecting all resolutions" but it's been removed.

It's disappointing, especially because there isn't a technical reason that this option can't be there, as it's all software-based.

So this HDV-960 will properly letterbox HDMI content when outputting to 4:3 display?

That’s my question too.

This product (https://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-to-RCA-HDMI-Converter-CVBS-AV-Composite-Video-Audio-Adapter-3-5mm-Headphone/193550571718?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649) appears to be visually similar. It appears to have an aspect ratio function (if zoom is held down) according to this (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Neoteck-Converter-1080P-Composite-Adapter/dp/B07RQRXL33/ref=sr_1_53?dchild=1&keywords=HD+HDMI+composite&qid=1600053678&s=electronics&sr=1-53).

I bought it and will see if it works, I need something that will properly letterbox 16:9 HDMI content onto 4:3.

This product (https://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-to-RCA-HDMI-Converter-CVBS-AV-Composite-Video-Audio-Adapter-3-5mm-Headphone/193550571718?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649) appears to be visually similar. It appears to have an aspect ratio function (if zoom is held down) according to this (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Neoteck-Converter-1080P-Composite-Adapter/dp/B07RQRXL33/ref=sr_1_53?dchild=1&keywords=HD+HDMI+composite&qid=1600053678&s=electronics&sr=1-53).

I bought it and will see if it works, I need something that will properly letterbox 16:9 HDMI content onto 4:3.


I have a converter that is almost identical to this one, except it doesn't have the headphone jack. Otherwise it looks the same. The "zoom" function on mine was disappointing. All it does is scale the image at a few increments between 90% to 100%. It provides no letterboxing at all, so if it is fed a 16:9 signal, it will only squeeze it to fit 4:3.

I do hope what you ordered does better, but I have a suspicion that it will function the same way mine did.

The zoom button has two functions on that one I think. If pressed it will scale, and if held down it will change the output aspect ratio. So yours only scales/zooms?

I have a converter that is almost identical to this one, except it doesn&r.squo;t have the headphone jack. Otherwise it looks the same. The &l.dquo;zoom&rdq.uo; function on mine was disappointing. All it does is scale the image at a few increments between 90% to 100%. It provides no letterboxing at all, so if it is fed a 16:9 signal, it will only squeeze it to fit 4:3.

I do hope what you ordered does better, but I have a suspicion that it will function the same way mine did.

Your keyboard has a strange character set or macros for " and ' characters. Those rsqou things are really annoying to read.

I apologize for that. It is some quirk with the Tapatalk app. When I type the characters, they appear normally, but after posting, they show up with that bizarre macro stuff. If I try to edit it, it appears normally again. The only way to get it right is to go in through the full website.

I will do better about catching this.

I've attached a photo of the converter I have which has a zoom button. The zoom function scales the output in increments between 90-100%, as I wrote earlier. If you press-and-hold the zoom button, it will toggle the output between 4:3 and 16:9. This does not add letterbox and it doesn’t crop. When toggling the output to 16:9, the picture is squeezed horizontally to fit a 4:3 screen. When choosing 4:3 output, it adds pillar boxes and squeezes the picture horizontally even more.

Dang! I bet mine does the same.

I've ordered a few more converters and have verified that these two add letterboxing to a 16:9 signal shown on a 4:3 screen:

Gefen, model GTV-HDMI-COMPVIDSN

Hall Research, model VHD-HD2CV


I can provide additional details on each, if there is interest.

Is the Hall Research converter sensitive to HDCP? I know the Gefen converter is.

Is the Hall Research converter sensitive to HDCP? I know the Gefen converter is.


Not in my limited testing, with a Roku Ultra.

As you know, the Gefen "obeys" HDCP, so I needed to use a defeater with it. Without the defeater, it threw up an HDCP error even when I tried to play local media files that clearly weren't protected. It must be that the Roku generates HDCP for anything it outputs.

One other thing I needed to do with the Gefen was to download and install special firmware which maintains aspect ratio. With the standard firmware, it does not letterbox.

With both products, playing 4:3 native content from the Roku results in the frustrating effect of pillarboxes AND letterboxing.

The Hall Research converter has a mode called Pan & Scan, which, as described in the manual, seems like exactly what I need, but when I've tried it, it severely squeezes the picture horizontally (worse than a 1:1 ratio). I haven't figured out what might be causing that. I reached out to the company for support and they were less than helpful, saying there could be many factors.

I ordered the Hall Research converter too. I'll update if I find a way to do what you want.

Are there any other differences between the converters, like image quality?

Are there any other differences between the converters, like image quality?


I personally think the Gefen has a better image quality. I've read reviews on the Hall Research claiming it was overly sharp. I'd tend to agree, but don't find it to be a deal-breaker, all things considered.