Hello,

A while back my prayers for a tube color set got answered with an rca ctc 25 combo. Its a "halmstead" in walnut veneer modern danish styling. It has a 1972 date code "black matrix" 23valp22 crt in it that tests dam good on my bk 467. Emissions barely drop if you dial the heater voltage down to five volts.

Initial power up was great. However after sitting around my house moisture penetrated the flyback. The last time I powered it up It still had hv but man you could hear it fizzing and hissing in there. Ive since not powered it on again.

Id like to maybe re wax it or seal the flyback with corona dope or rtv silicone. Id also like to get a spare flyback for this set as id like to use fairly often. Used or nos. If used id probably recondition it in a similar fasion to prevent future failure from moisture.

Does anyone have any method of repairing these?

Moyer electronics last a tried was clean out. Same with the early television museum. Ive found one guy in the facebook group vintage television collectors who has one but he wants a $$$ for it which is fine and im completely willing to pony up. I just wanted to try here as well.

I do have the sams and a 1967/68 rca color television manual that covers my set.

I am amateurish as far as experience with tvs go. I have this color set and a bw zenith. Ive mostly done old tube radios and tube stereos. I do have most basic test equipment except a pattern generator and hv probe but thats ok.

If you have HV your fly is still decent. There are a variety of things in the HV cage that can cause that noise. First off the HV cage and the parts inside it need to be VERY clean...Even a thin hard to notice layer of dust can carbonize into a conductive path.
Second: the filament leads between the flyback and the bottom of the HV rect tube and the insulator cup around the base of that tube as well as the HV lead to the CRT and the top lead to the HV regulator can all break down and arc/ develop holes and or conductive carbon tracks fron HV side of the insulation to grounds on the outside of the insulation (I've seen and fixed these issues many times)...Examine it thouroughly with the set on and covers open with little to no room lighting to acertain the exact source of arcing, and if you clean these parts (which you should) examine them carefully.

Third (it has been a few years since I last had a CTC-25) IIRC these molded the top cap of the HV rect tube into the fly HV winding....If the HV rect tube is too physically short it will not seat properly into the cup and arc...Makesure you have one of the taller versions of that tube (different makes made them taller and shorter at different times). Also on RCAs with the HV top cap molded into the flyback there is an issue with the outer rubber tire breaking down and becoming conductive between the cup and the center of the winding. The solution is to peel off the rubber tire scrape away any carbonization beneath the tire and recoat the area the tire once covered with sensor safe RTV silicone.

Another note in the days these sets were new many people in humid climates did not own airconditioners or dehumidifiers, and these sets were designed to handle it. If the fly absorbed too much from being off for weeks/months it would heat up and boil/bake out the moisture sometimes bubbling out a bit of wax too, then normalize and continur to function...If you recoat it before letting it do this maybe leave a small breathe hole or two on the side for it to vent then seal them after it has baked out a good bit.

Also important is making sure your horizontal is set up properly the osc, needs to be adjusted properly as per the sam's proceedure, grid drive/bias at the horizontal output needs to be strong, and perhaps most importantly yout H linearity/efficiency coil needs to be adjusted for minimum H output cathode DC current. All the horizontal adjustment proceedures should be explained in your copy of the Sam's...Preform them.

RCA flys can last indefinitely if you make sure conditions around them are ideal...If they engineered a bit more margin in like Zenith did then you could afford to be more lax with horizontal maintenance.

If you have HV your fly is still decent. There are a variety of things in the HV cage that can cause that noise. First off the HV cage and the parts inside it need to be VERY clean...Even a thin hard to notice layer of dust can carbonize into a conductive path.
Second: the filament leads between the flyback and the bottom of the HV rect tube and the insulator cup around the base of that tube as well as the HV lead to the CRT and the top lead to the HV regulator can all break down and arc/ develop holes and or conductive carbon tracks fron HV side of the insulation to grounds on the outside of the insulation (I've seen and fixed these issues many times)...Examine it thouroughly with the set on and covers open with little to no room lighting to acertain the exact source of arcing, and if you clean these parts (which you should) examine them carefully.

Third (it has been a few years since I last had a CTC-25) IIRC these molded the top cap of the HV rect tube into the fly HV winding....If the HV rect tube is too physically short it will not seat properly into the cup and arc...Makesure you have one of the taller versions of that tube (different makes made them taller and shorter at different times). Also on RCAs with the HV top cap molded into the flyback there is an issue with the outer rubber tire breaking down and becoming conductive between the cup and the center of the winding. The solution is to peel off the rubber tire scrape away any carbonization beneath the tire and recoat the area the tire once covered with sensor safe RTV silicone.

Another note in the days these sets were new many people in humid climates did not own airconditioners or dehumidifiers, and these sets were designed to handle it. If the fly absorbed too much from being off for weeks/months it would heat up and boil/bake out the moisture sometimes bubbling out a bit of wax too, then normalize and continur to function...If you recoat it before letting it do this maybe leave a small breathe hole or two on the side for it to vent then seal them after it has baked out a good bit.

Also important is making sure your horizontal is set up properly the osc, needs to be adjusted properly as per the sam's proceedure, grid drive/bias at the horizontal output needs to be strong, and perhaps most importantly yout H linearity/efficiency coil needs to be adjusted for minimum H output cathode DC current. All the horizontal adjustment proceedures should be explained in your copy of the Sam's...Preform them.

RCA flys can last indefinitely if you make sure conditions around them are ideal...If they engineered a bit more margin in like Zenith did then you could afford to be more lax with horizontal maintenance.

Thank you very much. Thats all ver helpful and i will clean it up real well. The flyback hasnt melted down or anything. Any special cleaning solutions? Mild soapy warm water?

... Any special cleaning solutions? Mild soapy warm water?
OMG, NO, nein, nyet!! :jawdrop:No telling what kind of conductive residues might get inside.:eek:

Thank you very much. Thats all ver helpful and i will clean it up real well. The flyback hasnt melted down or anything. Any special cleaning solutions? Mild soapy warm water?

For most cases isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol is my preferred cleaning agent. On the metal cage, the HV cables and the plastic HV rect bottom cup (with all wiring and socket removed from cup if the dirt is especially stubborn I will use glass cleaner or goofoff as the cleaner.

For most cases isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol is my preferred cleaning agent. On the metal cage, the HV cables and the plastic HV rect bottom cup (with all wiring and socket removed from cup if the dirt is especially stubborn I will use glass cleaner or goofoff as the cleaner.

Thank you.

Next time I power the set up I want to watch the current draw. I know the watts on it is 350. So the current draw shouldnt be over 3.2 amps or so once the sets warmed up.

I have a fluke 27/fm. How do i hook it up to watch the current draw? Do I put the negative of the meter to chassis ground and then the positive lead on one leg of the line?

Thank you.

Next time I power the set up I want to watch the current draw. I know the watts on it is 350. So the current draw shouldnt be over 3.2 amps or so once the sets warmed up.

I have a fluke 27/fm. How do i hook it up to watch the current draw? Do I put the negative of the meter to chassis ground and then the positive lead on one leg of the line?

Line current and horizontal output cathode current have too loose of a correlation to be used interchangeably.

The cathode current can be measured by unsoldering the ground lead from the cathode pin of the h output tube socket then connecting the meter positive current terminal to that pin and the meter negative to ground (sometimes you should put a .47uF cap parallel to the meter ). The current will be in the neighborhood of 170mA to 230mA DC. make sure your meter has a 500Ma DC scale... I'm not familiar with your meter so check it's specs/manual. Also it is preferable to use an analog darsonval movement meter to a digital meter... it is a high frequency pulsed DC current on the cathode. An analog meter will average it well and be the same instrument that Sam's and the factory used to measure that. Some DMMs may get confused by non constant DC... I have not had that issue, but since I have an analog meter I use it instead of my DMM.... it is better for adjusting the efficiency coil for minimum current than most DMMs since it will show you minute changes that a digital display will hide in rounding to it's smallest digit.

One recommendation when you're done measuring the cathode current connect a new wire to the cathode pin, run it above chassis to a good spot to ad a fuse holder, ground the cathode thru a 1/4 amp fuse. Doing this will help protect the flyback from excessive current, and the fuse holder above chassis will also make a convenient current test point for future measurements... all you will have to do is remove the fuse and connect a meter across the holder terminals.

OMG, NO, nein, nyet!! :jawdrop:No telling what kind of conductive residues might get inside.:eek:

Got it!

Line current and horizontal output cathode current have too loose of a correlation to be used interchangeably.

The cathode current can be measured by unsoldering the ground lead from the cathode pin of the h output tube socket then connecting the meter positive current terminal to that pin and the meter negative to ground (sometimes you should put a .47uF cap parallel to the meter ). The current will be in the neighborhood of 170mA to 230mA DC. make sure your meter has a 500Ma DC scale... I'm not familiar with your meter so check it's specs/manual. Also it is preferable to use an analog darsonval movement meter to a digital meter... it is a high frequency pulsed DC current on the cathode. An analog meter will average it well and be the same instrument that Sam's and the factory used to measure that. Some DMMs may get confused by non constant DC... I have not had that issue, but since I have an analog meter I use it instead of my DMM.... it is better for adjusting the efficiency coil for minimum current than most DMMs since it will show you minute changes that a digital display will hide in rounding to it's smallest digit.

One recommendation when you're done measuring the cathode current connect a new wire to the cathode pin, run it above chassis to a good spot to ad a fuse holder, ground the cathode thru a 1/4 amp fuse. Doing this will help protect the flyback from excessive current, and the fuse holder above chassis will also make a convenient current test point for future measurements... all you will have to do is remove the fuse and connect a meter across the holder terminals.

I will buy a 0-500 dc milliamp meter so that I may do that.

For the record though how can i set my meter up to look at the

I will buy a 0-500 dc milliamp meter so that I may do that.

For the record though how can i set my meter up to look at the

Look at the what?

Look at the what?

Do"h

I want to look at the overall ac current draw the set is using. I checked my fluke meter and it tops out at 320ma so an analog dc milliamp meter is on its way.

Do"h

I want to look at the overall ac current draw the set is using. I checked my fluke meter and it tops out at 320ma so an analog dc milliamp meter is on its way.

On tube sets that test is much less informational than solid state. A meter that can't measure 5-10A AC can't directly measure the line current the set draws. (also some DMMs that can do 10A only do DC and some only do AC so knowing which the meter can do is important)....

All that said there is a way to indirectly measure the AC that set uses with your present meter (assuming it has an AC volts range) get a 5W or higher, 1 OHM power resistor place that resistor in series with one leg of the cord (can hack up an extension cord to do this (and make a universal adapter) ) then with the meter in AC volts range measure the voltage across that resistor...You can then compute the approximate current using ohms law: I=E/R= measured voltage/resistance...Given resistance should be 1 OHM that means measured voltage should be approximately equal to the current flowing. The accuracy of the resistor, the accuracy of the meter, where you connect the meter along the wire will all introduce some error to the measurement, but it should give a decent approximation.

On tube sets that test is much less informational than solid state. A meter that can't measure 5-10A AC can't directly measure the line current the set draws. (also some DMMs that can do 10A only do DC and some only do AC so knowing which the meter can do is important)....

All that said there is a way to indirectly measure the AC that set uses with your present meter (assuming it has an AC volts range) get a 5W or higher, 1 OHM power resistor place that resistor in series with one leg of the cord (can hack up an extension cord to do this (and make a universal adapter) ) then with the meter in AC volts range measure the voltage across that resistor...You can then compute the approximate current using ohms law: I=E/R= measured voltage/resistance...Given resistance should be 1 OHM that means measured voltage should be approximately equal to the current flowing. The accuracy of the resistor, the accuracy of the meter, where you connect the meter along the wire will all introduce some error to the measurement, but it should give a decent approximation.

My fluke meter can go up to 10 amps ac/dc
Youve been really helpful so far. Cleaning out the hv cage and all the leads. I swore this hissing noise came from the back side if the cage. It will be a while till I get that dc milliamp meter in the mail.

One thing i forgot to mention is that one of the power resistors has been replaced on the chroma board. Also Ive been told theres a trace along that board that tends to fail. Fortunately mines in good shape. All ive done to it to add on is replace a few e caps and reflow the ground stags. Some have mentioned hard wiring the ground with a wire.

To touch up on your earlier post the ctc 25 does use a cup ontop of the flyback where the plate cap of the hv rectifier sits inside. I will wrangle up a few and see if it helps next time i power it up with a ammeter telling me what the cathode current.

If any of the wire insulation is at fault from breaking down (and this IS a high hour set) what would be a good replacement? I imagine regular old heat shrink tubing wouldnt be good enough for the 24kv..

If it is the filament lead/winding that has arced through check the wire's resistance before replacing it. If it is resistance wire it will be more of a task replacing it correctly.

If it is the HV lead that has failed or a non-resistive HV rect filament winding there are a few ways to go...All of them involve getting/installing new HV wire. There are probably vendors online that stock wire with 40KV rated insulation. Non-resistive spark plug wire from an auto parts store may work. I tend to just steal and reuse the HV leads from 1980's and newer CRT sets that folks abandon at the curb. The last option is the only one that comes with a HV connector on the end of the wire. The first two options require you to remove and reuse the existing CRT HV connector from the old wire if replacing the original HV lead to the CRT.

If it is the filament lead/winding that has arced through check the wire's resistance before replacing it. If it is resistance wire it will be more of a task replacing it correctly.

If it is the HV lead that has failed or a non-resistive HV rect filament winding there are a few ways to go...All of them involve getting/installing new HV wire. There are probably vendors online that stock wire with 40KV rated insulation. Non-resistive spark plug wire from an auto parts store may work. I tend to just steal and reuse the HV leads from 1980's and newer CRT sets that folks abandon at the curb. The last option is the only one that comes with a HV connector on the end of the wire. The first two options require you to remove and reuse the existing CRT HV connector from the old wire if replacing the original HV lead to the CRT.


Got it! It wouldnt hurt getting a bpc tv to harvest other parts such as capacitors or resistors.

If you have HV your fly is still decent. There are a variety of things in the HV cage that can cause that noise. First off the HV cage and the parts inside it need to be VERY clean...Even a thin hard to notice layer of dust can carbonize into a conductive path.
Second: the filament leads between the flyback and the bottom of the HV rect tube and the insulator cup around the base of that tube as well as the HV lead to the CRT and the top lead to the HV regulator can all break down and arc/ develop holes and or conductive carbon tracks fron HV side of the insulation to grounds on the outside of the insulation (I've seen and fixed these issues many times)...Examine it thouroughly with the set on and covers open with little to no room lighting to acertain the exact source of arcing, and if you clean these parts (which you should) examine them carefully.

Third (it has been a few years since I last had a CTC-25) IIRC these molded the top cap of the HV rect tube into the fly HV winding....If the HV rect tube is too physically short it will not seat properly into the cup and arc...Makesure you have one of the taller versions of that tube (different makes made them taller and shorter at different times). Also on RCAs with the HV top cap molded into the flyback there is an issue with the outer rubber tire breaking down and becoming conductive between the cup and the center of the winding. The solution is to peel off the rubber tire scrape away any carbonization beneath the tire and recoat the area the tire once covered with sensor safe RTV silicone.

Another note in the days these sets were new many people in humid climates did not own airconditioners or dehumidifiers, and these sets were designed to handle it. If the fly absorbed too much from being off for weeks/months it would heat up and boil/bake out the moisture sometimes bubbling out a bit of wax too, then normalize and continur to function...If you recoat it before letting it do this maybe leave a small breathe hole or two on the side for it to vent then seal them after it has baked out a good bit.

Also important is making sure your horizontal is set up properly the osc, needs to be adjusted properly as per the sam's proceedure, grid drive/bias at the horizontal output needs to be strong, and perhaps most importantly yout H linearity/efficiency coil needs to be adjusted for minimum H output cathode DC current. All the horizontal adjustment proceedures should be explained in your copy of the Sam's...Preform them.

RCA flys can last indefinitely if you make sure conditions around them are ideal...If they engineered a bit more margin in like Zenith did then you could afford to be more lax with horizontal maintenance.

Hey.

So I got a 0-500 dc ammeter. I have a few things to report in. Im cleaning the hv leads and cage. I am also getting ready to pull the fly cage to re silicone. One thing I forgot to mention is that I did end up loosing vertical but there was still a bit of something you could adjust with the brightness which I imagine was the horizontal.

The boost rectifier diode has gone open. It is listed as a 1n3195. Sr102/X6 has also failed. It is in series with the yellow lead going into the primary of the vertical output. Im having trouble finding a replacement for it. It is a hv rectifier and is listed in sams under General electronics GECR-2. So I will need to replace the boost rect diode and hv diode.

You suggested fusing the h output cathode with a .25 amp fuse. What voltage rating?

Any of these should work for the boost diode. https://www.mouser.com/Semiconductors/Discrete-Semiconductors/Diodes-Rectifiers/Rectifiers/_/N-ax1mbZ1yzvvqx?P=1z0z63xZ1yuoc3dZ1yuoc5pZ1yry03z&Rl=ax1mbZgjdhqcZ1yokr45Z1yopdfySGT May want to put 2 in series to ensure the replacement can take any possible voltage spike. Radio Shack used to sock a 2A 1.5KV part that I used to replace the boost on my CTC-15 but they ain't a thing anymore. Parts like diodes in sets of this vintage are probably over 3 generations obsolete so it is easier to look up the key specs and spec out a new one than find and trace forward all the missing links in the recommended successor line.

Any voltage of fuse is fine. The only spec that matters for fuses is the current. A you can take a .25A 125V fuse and put it in a device that wants a .25A 250V and vice versa and the device will work okay and the fuse will still blow at .25A current. You probably want a slow blow and not a fast acting fuse...The current averages ~200mA but spikes above 250mA for tiny fractions of each second. A fast act fuse is designed to catch that fractional spike and blow (creating lots of nuisance failure which you don't want) but the slow blow will average out the current and only blow when the average current reaches fault value.

Any of these should work for the boost diode. https://www.mouser.com/Semiconductors/Discrete-Semiconductors/Diodes-Rectifiers/Rectifiers/_/N-ax1mbZ1yzvvqx?P=1z0z63xZ1yuoc3dZ1yuoc5pZ1yry03z&Rl=ax1mbZgjdhqcZ1yokr45Z1yopdfySGT May want to put 2 in series to ensure the replacement can take any possible voltage spike. Radio Shack used to sock a 2A 1.5KV part that I used to replace the boost on my CTC-15 but they ain't a thing anymore. Parts like diodes in sets of this vintage are probably over 3 generations obsolete so it is easier to look up the key specs and spec out a new one than find and trace forward all the missing links in the recommended successor line.

Any voltage of fuse is fine. The only spec that matters for fuses is the current. A you can take a .25A 125V fuse and put it in a device that wants a .25A 250V and vice versa and the device will work okay and the fuse will still blow at .25A current. You probably want a slow blow and not a fast acting fuse...The current averages ~200mA but spikes above 250mA for tiny fractions of each second. A fast act fuse is designed to catch that fractional spike and blow (creating lots of nuisance failure which you don't want) but the slow blow will average out the current and only blow when the average current reaches fault value.

Im gonna go with this guy for the boost diode.



https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Semtech/1N5622?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtbRapU8LlZDx8s0NEKqle9fmb21VVb T1RRYElQDp%252bUjA%3d%3d

Should work well right?

Also wanting to find a sub for 1n3195 heres the data sheet. There is a NOS 1n3195 on ebay for cheap. That is also an option.

https://www.datasheets360.com/part/detail/1n3195/-137051594065512865/

Im gonna go with this guy for the boost diode.



https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Semtech/1N5622?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtbRapU8LlZDx8s0NEKqle9fmb21VVb T1RRYElQDp%252bUjA%3d%3d

Should work well right?

Also wanting to find a sub for 1n3195 heres the data sheet. There is a NOS 1n3195 on ebay for cheap. That is also an option.

https://www.datasheets360.com/part/detail/1n3195/-137051594065512865/

First one you may want to put 2-3 in series to ensure against HV spikes/arcover causing it to short, but otherwise it seems fine.


The second diode looks like a common 1N4007 should be a sub for it.

In most tube circuits the important specs for the replacement diode to match or exceed are PIV (peak inverse voltage) and average forward current. The rest usually makes little difference.

One last thing is speed ( forgot what they called it ).
If you use a common 3A 1KV rectifier as a scan rectifier it will
blow within a few hrs because it overheats. Cant take the higher
freq. Same goes for in switching supplies.

IIRC boost diodes didnt test like a common diode ? I do remember
they rarely went bad.

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !


First one you may want to put 2-3 in series to ensure against HV spikes/arcover causing it to short, but otherwise it seems fine.


The second diode looks like a common 1N4007 should be a sub for it.

In most tube circuits the important specs for the replacement diode to match or exceed are PIV (peak inverse voltage) and average forward current. The rest usually makes little difference.

One last thing is speed ( forgot what they called it ).
If you use a common 3A 1KV rectifier as a scan rectifier it will
blow within a few hrs because it overheats. Cant take the higher
freq. Same goes for in switching supplies.

IIRC boost diodes didnt test like a common diode ? I do remember
they rarely went bad.

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

With the virtual extinction of 60Hz linear power supplies most new rectifier diodes can handle at least horizontal rate switching. Even the humble 1n4007 is found in switch mode supplies these days. I've used many normal silicon rectifiers as boost and convergence doide replacements in tube sets had good results. The original boost and convergence diodes were selenium for fast switching...If they had the modern fast switching silicon diodes we had now back then they would have used them instead of seleniums.

Still it is not a.bad idea to convert switching time to seconds then take the inverse to get frequency and make sure that frequency is higher than that of the waveform applied.

First one you may want to put 2-3 in series to ensure against HV spikes/arcover causing it to short, but otherwise it seems fine.


The second diode looks like a common 1N4007 should be a sub for it.

In most tube circuits the important specs for the replacement diode to match or exceed are PIV (peak inverse voltage) and average forward current. The rest usually makes little difference.

I went to my local electronics shop and picked up a 1n4007 and a 1n5408 for the replacements

Electronic Memory.

Ive peeled the brown tire off completely. Theres this rubbery kinda pink stuff under it. I imagine that has to go too right?

There are no visible signs of conductance on the tire of the fly. There is one tiny spot where one spec of the winding is exposed but I think that only happened peeling the tire off.

Of course ive successfully removed the fly cage for cleaning too. I have almost everything short of a fuse and fuse holder I forgot to get when I was in town.

That pink stuff is silicone. If it is blackened or loose pull it off, otherwise it is fine to leave it be.

If you exposed the winding then you may want to check continuity before applying fresh silicone... if you somehow nicked a lead open it will be much more of a pain to find and fix after you coat it.

BTW if you want to see the process of coating it I have pics of a CTC16 fly I did a few years ago in a thread here on VK. Shango66 on YouTube has some videos of this too.

That pink stuff is silicone. If it is blackened or loose pull it off, otherwise it is fine to leave it be.

If you exposed the winding then you may want to check continuity before applying fresh silicone... if you somehow nicked a lead open it will be much more of a pain to find and fix after you coat it.

BTW if you want to see the process of coating it I have pics of a CTC16 fly I did a few years ago in a thread here on VK. Shango66 on YouTube has some videos of this too.

I ohm"d out each winding ie 1 to 2, 2 to 3, and so on. Everything was in spec. Looks like a piece of wax paper came off with the silicone.

All the loose old silicon is gone. So ill look at your thread.

Btw I love shango066 s channel.

I dont know if this was the source of hissing but the non painted metal shield surrounding the 6el4 shunt regulator, there is a clip to hold the hv leads and theres a "shadow" almost burnt into the metal. As in its really clean were the leads were resting against and browned on the edge.

That pink stuff is silicone. If it is blackened or loose pull it off, otherwise it is fine to leave it be.

If you exposed the winding then you may want to check continuity before applying fresh silicone... if you somehow nicked a lead open it will be much more of a pain to find and fix after you coat it.

BTW if you want to see the process of coating it I have pics of a CTC16 fly I did a few years ago in a thread here on VK. Shango66 on YouTube has some videos of this too.

Im having trouble finding your thread. I have all the old silicone off. I imagine im hust gonna put a nice even layer on right?

Pretty much.

It is this thread for what it's worth http://videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=265422&highlight=CTC-16&page=6 Some of the pictures are gone... IIRC I deleted them to make room when my Photobucket filled back before they instituted hosting ransom... Normally I try to preserve resto info I post but the cat I did that work for flaked out on payment he owed and I was a bit angry.

Pretty much.

It is this thread for what it's worth http://videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=265422&highlight=CTC-16&page=6 Some of the pictures are gone... IIRC I deleted them to make room when my Photobucket filled back before they instituted hosting ransom... Normally I try to preserve resto info I post but the cat I did that work for flaked out on payment he owed and I was a bit angry.

I have the sonic the hedgehog blue silicon evenly smoothed over the fly. The new diode has been installed, and ive disconnected the cathode (pin 3) of the h output tube from ground. I soldered a jumper from ground to the top of the chassis and another jumper to pin 3. My am meter will go imbetween these two points.

To be honest im sorta nervous about this. I just really wanna see it work. Ive worked on a zenith bw tv set and successfully restored both my fisher tube receivers. I think im nervous cause its color.

I know the silicon isnt really conductive when its wet but it is drying. Will be ready to fire up soon

Pretty much.

It is this thread for what it's worth http://videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=265422&highlight=CTC-16&page=6 Some of the pictures are gone... IIRC I deleted them to make room when my Photobucket filled back before they instituted hosting ransom... Normally I try to preserve resto info I post but the cat I did that work for flaked out on payment he owed and I was a bit angry.

I hooked everything up and the cathode current steadily rose up to 200ma and then kept going towards 300. I unplugged the h output cap and it dropped to around 40ma. If i touch the h output cap to the tube it goes up towards 300 but then it started backing down to around 250. Tweaking the hori linearity coil had some effect. If I touch the plate cap you can hear the hv jumping. My tube tester doesnt test compactrons so I sont know if its shorted or not. I might have an extra. I had all the controls turned down so I dont know if there was anything on the screen.

No smoke from the flyback and theres hv

*im not sure if the h output tube is shorted.

It got really freaking hot too

OK So I did not have the cathode and filament tied together. I fixed this and the cathode current is a bit more normal now. I was going to adjust the hor linearity coil so I put the plate cap back on top of the h output tube and BOY the hv got me. I will say it doesnt have near as much as a bite as getting bit by my 87 TBird doing the timing with an old timing light.

Tom/Electronic Memory when it powers up theres a "sound step" noise squeal and this squealing noise. Is that the horizontal running off frequency?

I had it on. This time it didnt squeal and it settled around 220ma then slowly lowered to 190 then slowly moved to 200ma then it sounded like something came up and the meter rushed up to near 300ma. Turning the coil didnt really do much is seamed. Of course when it jumped up i turned it off

Squealing is usually the osc off frequency. Not sure my imagination can do much with"sound step" though.

Do you have an oscilloscope? If you do you can use that to adjust the osc with the output pulled. If not get video on the screen and some vertical deflection and adjust the H osc according to the procedure in the Sam's photofact for your chassis. A minute or so of ~250mA shouldn't kill the flyback, much longer is not advisable though.

Squealing is usually the osc off frequency. Not sure my imagination can do much with"sound step" though.

Do you have an oscilloscope? If you do you can use that to adjust the osc with the output pulled. If not get video on the screen and some vertical deflection and adjust the H osc according to the procedure in the Sam's photofact for your chassis. A minute or so of ~250mA shouldn't kill the flyback, much longer is not advisable though.

Yes I have a o scope. Sound step I mean like almost a quick step of different pitch squealing. Like playing EADG of a guitar then it stabilized. Last i powered it on the squeal went away. Im not getting anything on the screen or sound. Im gonna make sure all the tubes are socketd down

The wave on the 100ohm resistor to pin 2/6 of the h output tube is really "steep" compared to the waveform on the sams which has a really broad curve thing. im definitely turning the core and its not changing the wave form.

The wave form is much narrowed then the rather broad looking wave in the sams. Turning the slug has no effect on the wave form. Im looking at the sams thinking why that would be

Since I my CTC-25 info went with my CTC-25 to its new owner I'm kind of flying blind here.

Which slug are you turning? If it is the linearity slug that will have no effect on the frequency and probably very limited effect if any on the H out grid drive waveform.
Are you adjusting the slug with a proper plastic hex adjustment tool? If you use a metal hex key for adjustment you will crack your slug (which will make it feel like it is turning when it is not) in short order.

The general procedure I go on for a rough osc adjustment is this: Connect scope to a composite video source (a VCR or DVD showing a blank screen is nice for this) and tune the scope to show 1-3 cycles of horizontal sync/video lines, count the number of divisions between leading edges of peaks, leave scope H/time settings exactly as they are from here on, connect scope to TVs horizontal osc test points adjust the horizontal osc trans top slug for the correct width of the waveform (make sure peaks are same distance apart as you measured with composite video) then if needed adjust the bottom slug for wave shape in the osc section (don't worry about output grid yet). Generally, I rough in the frequency and wave shape then follow sam's instructions when I have a picture on screen to optimize things. If after adjusting the osc the waveform at the grid of the output tube looks bad check the components between the osc and output.
The osc trans will be next to the H osc tube (usually a 6CG7) on the sweep PCB...There are two slugs in the osc transformer a top (usually freq) and a bottom (usually shape) and they may interact a bit...Some RCAs did a dirty trick and did not give a bottom access hole in the bottom of the board for the lower slug...Instead, to adjust it you had to have a plastic alignment tool that only had a 1/4" or less hex section on the end of the shaft and was narrower than the hex over the rest of the shaft. That tool made it possible to adjust both slugs separately from the top. You can still find those alignment tools for sale online.

One thing to watch out for on RCA per your explanation of the stepped freq behavior is bad PCB solder joints...The worst spots are on the H osc, H lin/efficiency coils, and the board ground to chassis ground joints, and tube sockets that all have a lot of mechanical stress on them. If they crack you will get weird intermittent behavior that makes no sense. I will often reflow them whenever I have weird symptoms. A 75W or higher gun or preferably soldering iron is best for the grounds...Everything else, use a more tame iron for.

That is all the wisdom I've got for tonight. I'm going to bed. Good luck.

Since I my CTC-25 info went with my CTC-25 to its new owner I'm kind of flying blind here.

Which slug are you turning? If it is the linearity slug that will have no effect on the frequency and probably very limited effect if any on the H out grid drive waveform.
Are you adjusting the slug with a proper plastic hex adjustment tool? If you use a metal hex key for adjustment you will crack your slug (which will make it feel like it is turning when it is not) in short order.

The general procedure I go on for a rough osc adjustment is this: Connect scope to a composite video source (a VCR or DVD showing a blank screen is nice for this) and tune the scope to show 1-3 cycles of horizontal sync/video lines, count the number of divisions between leading edges of peaks, leave scope H/time settings exactly as they are from here on, connect scope to TVs horizontal osc test points adjust the horizontal osc trans top slug for the correct width of the waveform (make sure peaks are same distance apart as you measured with composite video) then if needed adjust the bottom slug for wave shape in the osc section (don't worry about output grid yet). Generally, I rough in the frequency and wave shape then follow sam's instructions when I have a picture on screen to optimize things. If after adjusting the osc the waveform at the grid of the output tube looks bad check the components between the osc and output.
The osc trans will be next to the H osc tube (usually a 6CG7) on the sweep PCB...There are two slugs in the osc transformer a top (usually freq) and a bottom (usually shape) and they may interact a bit...Some RCAs did a dirty trick and did not give a bottom access hole in the bottom of the board for the lower slug...Instead, to adjust it you had to have a plastic alignment tool that only had a 1/4" or less hex section on the end of the shaft and was narrower than the hex over the rest of the shaft. That tool made it possible to adjust both slugs separately from the top. You can still find those alignment tools for sale online.

One thing to watch out for on RCA per your explanation of the stepped freq behavior is bad PCB solder joints...The worst spots are on the H osc, H lin/efficiency coils, and the board ground to chassis ground joints, and tube sockets that all have a lot of mechanical stress on them. If they crack you will get weird intermittent behavior that makes no sense. I will often reflow them whenever I have weird symptoms. A 75W or higher gun or preferably soldering iron is best for the grounds...Everything else, use a more tame iron for.

That is all the wisdom I've got for tonight. I'm going to bed. Good luck.


I was tunning the h efficiency coil so that makes sense why there was no change. I do not have a plastic hex. I have an "Ifixit" tool case with the proper size hex end but it is metal.

I dont have a vcr BUT i have a lot of old cartridge based nintendo and sega video game consoles I can use for a composite source. So youre saying to fire up the scope attatched to a blank composite source and then dial in the scope to get a wave form then keep the scope on those setting and attatch the scope to the tv and adjust the h slug to match the wave from a blank input setting from the composite signal of my choice?

I might end up doing some reflowing. I had audio and video before the chassis went on the bench. Now theres no sound or video. All I did was replace a few ecaps and re silicone the fly. Thank you for your help Tom.

I was tunning the h efficiency coil so that makes sense why there was no change. I do not have a plastic hex. I have an "Ifixit" tool case with the proper size hex end but it is metal.

I dont have a vcr BUT i have a lot of old cartridge based nintendo and sega video game consoles I can use for a composite source. So youre saying to fire up the scope attatched to a blank composite source and then dial in the scope to get a wave form then keep the scope on those setting and attatch the scope to the tv and adjust the h slug to match the wave from a blank input setting from the composite signal of my choice?

I might end up doing some reflowing. I had audio and video before the chassis went on the bench. Now theres no sound or video. All I did was replace a few ecaps and re silicone the fly. Thank you for your help Tom.
Definitely get a plastic alignment tool and stop using the metal one before you crack your slug... I've been there done that, and can say removing a crack slug without destroying the coil can be a royal pain in the butt... sourcing a new slug can be tricky too.

The only thing you will need to change on your scope is the vertical voltage scale. Composite video is about 1vpp and h osc waveforms in tube set are on the order of 50vpp...
How new your game system is can be important if you plan to use it as a H frequency reference. Older game systems used 240p rather than 525i. That change shifted the horizontal frequency a bit, and while most sets can sync to it I'm leery of using some random spec a programmer came up with because they were too cheap/reasource strapped to create a proper NTSC spec video source.

If you lost video and sound together you probably want to check tuner and IF systems. Wiggle tubes and if you get noise that stage and everything between it and the video detector diode are fine. In some cases the IF lead to the tuner will open or go intermittent... I have a CTC15 clone where the tuner and it's IF lead are permanently connected to the main chassis with soldered wire. The point the IF lead solders to the tuner has no strain relief so when I pull the chassis the center conductor of the IF lead tends to break off of it's tuner solder post... killing both picture and sound.

Do you have raster? If not check your boost voltage. Troubleshooting, adjustment and repair all get easier with the screen lightning.

Definitely get a plastic alignment tool and stop using the metal one before you crack your slug... I've been there done that, and can say removing a crack slug without destroying the coil can be a royal pain in the butt... sourcing a new slug can be tricky too.

The only thing you will need to change on your scope is the vertical voltage scale. Composite video is about 1vpp and h osc waveforms in tube set are on the order of 50vpp...
How new your game system is can be important if you plan to use it as a H frequency reference. Older game systems used 240p rather than 525i. That change shifted the horizontal frequency a bit, and while most sets can sync to it I'm leery of using some random spec a programmer came up with because they were too cheap/reasource strapped to create a proper NTSC spec video source.

If you lost video and sound together you probably want to check tuner and IF systems. Wiggle tubes and if you get noise that stage and everything between it and the video detector diode are fine. In some cases the IF lead to the tuner will open or go intermittent... I have a CTC15 clone where the tuner and it's IF lead are permanently connected to the main chassis with soldered wire. The point the IF lead solders to the tuner has no strain relief so when I pull the chassis the center conductor of the IF lead tends to break off of it's tuner solder post... killing both picture and sound.

Do you have raster? If not check your boost voltage. Troubleshooting, adjustment and repair all get easier with the screen lightning.


Now that i think of it i dont have the antenna or uhf/vhf cables connected. Ill hook the tunner up as needed. I ended up using my super nintendo to get a nice wave form 9 divisions wide and 30 high. The sams says theres a waveform off pin 8 of the h osc tube. It was thinner and super high/long, not sure what exact words to use to describe it. Ill get a plastic hex as suggested. Since I wont be tunning the slugs with a metal hex ill do as much more as i can in this set then im gonna get (a much simpler) zenith bw tv going chassis 17T20.

There's little point in doing the scope work till you have the correct adjustment tool. Another good reason to not use a metal adjustment tool is that the magnetic properties of the adjustment tool have the same effect as the magnetic properties of the slug.... simply inserting a metal tool or removing it has the same effect.on the circuit as turning the slug some amount...so if you get an adjustment perfect with the metal tool then as soon as you removed the tool the adjustment is thrown off of that perfect setting.

The "height" ie signal amplitude and wave shape of composite video and h osc waveforms are going to be radically different... the goal is to compare the synch frequency (width between pulses) and h osc frequency to allow calibration of osc frequency to a known reference.

There's little point in doing the scope work till you have the correct adjustment tool. Another good reason to not use a metal adjustment tool is that the magnetic properties of the adjustment tool have the same effect as the magnetic properties of the slug.... simply inserting a metal tool or removing it has the same effect.on the circuit as turning the slug some amount...so if you get an adjustment perfect with the metal tool then as soon as you removed the tool the adjustment is thrown off of that perfect setting.

The "height" ie signal amplitude and wave shape of composite video and h osc waveforms are going to be radically different... the goal is to compare the synch frequency (width between pulses) and h osc frequency to allow calibration of osc frequency to a known reference.

So something ive been meaning to ask as Im having difficulty finding the answer in the sams. What would be the "normal" operating condition position for all the switchs? I had the yoke pulled back before it went on the bench and the red/blue/ green looked great as is with minimal smearing. I had a red blob centered. I know the norm/service/raster switch should be in normal but what about the color guns and all these other controls? Where should they be so i can get something on the screen?

The switch positions should be fairly obvious.. the potentiometer positions that you seem to be asking about vary with CRT health, signal conditions, and opperational health of the chassis.

Assuming you have the right HV voltage, focus voltage and the right boost voltage (if not focus on getting those right before expecting light on screen) then crank the brightness clockwise with contrast Midway and color fully counterclockwise and look for light...If none flip to service position on service switch. If still nothing then while watching the screen (in a mirror if needed) turn up one screen/G2 control till it gives light or you hit its mechanical limit...if you hit the limit reset to about where you started and try it on a different color screen. If still nothing after all screens tried look for a subbrightness control and crank that. If still nothing check cathode and geid voltages against the schematic.

Assuming you get light and have messed with G2 here's how to set G2 on a working set...turn brightness to min flip service switch feed set blank signal, turn red g2 for faint red line, then turn green g2 to make line yellow, then adjust blue to get white...if a color.is too weak turn up subbrightness or if none exists brightness and start again... that should make blacks black...if whites are funny colored adjust color drive controls.

The switch positions should be fairly obvious.. the potentiometer positions that you seem to be asking about vary with CRT health, signal conditions, and opperational health of the chassis.

Assuming you have the right HV voltage, focus voltage and the right boost voltage (if not focus on getting those right before expecting light on screen) then crank the brightness clockwise with contrast Midway and color fully counterclockwise and look for light...If none flip to service position on service switch. If still nothing then while watching the screen (in a mirror if needed) turn up one screen/G2 control till it gives light or you hit its mechanical limit...if you hit the limit reset to about where you started and try it on a different color screen. If still nothing after all screens tried look for a subbrightness control and crank that. If still nothing check cathode and geid voltages against the schematic.

Assuming you get light and have messed with G2 here's how to set G2 on a working set...turn brightness to min flip service switch feed set blank signal, turn red g2 for faint red line, then turn green g2 to make line yellow, then adjust blue to get white...if a color.is too weak turn up subbrightness or if none exists brightness and start again... that should make blacks black...if whites are funny colored adjust color drive controls.

I hooked up the rf output rca jack to the tuner and fired it up. Same thing. So I turned it off and took off the top of the fly cage and turned it on. Visible corona cloud around the cup of the fly back and the g output cathode current leveled at 200ma. I then saw a little bright flash in the 2av2. So i shut it off. So theres definitely hv. But why would the cathode current jump with the hv rectifier connected? I did have to resolder the 2nd anode connection on the base of the hv rectifier. I know the crt isnt shorted

I put the 2av2 set up correctly in my tube tester and all it does is peg the meter in the good range

...if a color is too weak turn up subbrightness or if none exists brightness and start again...
Doesn't the '25 have a Kine Bias switch? If so, it might be dirty. Try cycling it a few times with a shot of cleaner.

Doesn't the '25 have a Kine Bias switch? If so, it might be dirty. Try cycling it a few times with a shot of cleaner.

Could be... its been about 2 years since I last saw the inside/back of one...

Doesn't the '25 have a Kine Bias switch? If so, it might be dirty. Try cycling it a few times with a shot of cleaner.


Yes it does. The thing is it had everything working when I brought it home. Niw that ive done work on it i have this to figure out.

I replaced the boost diode with a 1n4007 and this other diode labled ge gecr-2 with a 1n5408. I also replaced a few small value e caps here and there.

Last night i was wondering why the h output current would go up 50+ma with the hv rectifier in circuit so i swapped the 6bk4 shunt regulator with a 6el4 and a fat (i wanna say 10 watt) 600 ohm resistor under the shunt reg started going up in flame. The leads were green anx corroded looking. So now i have that to clean up.

I do know theres hv at the fly output though.

You should get a HV meter or probe capable of measuring at least 30KV...The difference between 18KV, 25KV and 32KV is hard to discern drawing an arc, but can be the difference between no picture/slowly killing the CRT by drawing too much current to achieve normal brightness, normal operation, and the fly arcing and shorting internally...In some cases, wrong HV can be much worse than excessive H output current.

May want to check your HV rect is not shorting. If you have HV AC going to the CRT you will be able to draw an arc, but you won't have a picture.

You should get a HV meter or probe capable of measuring at least 30KV...The difference between 18KV, 25KV and 32KV is hard to discern drawing an arc, but can be the difference between no picture/slowly killing the CRT by drawing too much current to achieve normal brightness, normal operation, and the fly arcing and shorting internally...In some cases, wrong HV can be much worse than excessive H output current.

May want to check your HV rect is not shorting. If you have HV AC going to the CRT you will be able to draw an arc, but you won't have a picture.

Well I did "test" the hv rectifier but that doesnt necessarily mean much, especially for sweep tubes were the tester doesnt even scratch the surface of the tubes operating range. I will think over what youve said.

[QUOTE=Electronic M;3206251]You should get a HV meter or probe capable of measuring at least 30KV...The difference between 18KV, 25KV and 32KV is hard to discern drawing an arc, but can be the difference between no picture/slowly killing the CRT by drawing too much current to achieve normal brightness, normal operation, and the fly arcing and shorting internally...In some cases, wrong HV can be much worse than excessive H output current.

I got a two size plastic hex tool in my possession now. I also have a NIB Rca 3a3c hv rectifier coming in the mail. So now I can correctly adjust coils without breaking them.

Well I believe Im on the right trail diagnosing this problem. I have my nib sylvania 3a3c, a thordson nib horiz eff coil, and my hex tool. I was looking at the schematic thinking why after it warms up the cathode current becomes excessive. So I thought I should make sure everything between the horz oscillator and output tube is in order. I found a .01 cap going to the grid of the horz op tube. Said cap had broken solders. So Ive stuck a new .01 in place. Also I plucked the damper tube and noticed little cruddies shaking around in it. My precision 10-12 cant test compactrons without an adapter but I dont think little bits of crap jingling around in a tube is a good qaulity. I dont have another tube so I have not fired it up again to see if thats made a difference.

The damper tube may be OK but a 6DW4/6CJ3/6CK3/6CH3 is easy to find. I have too many. I scrapped many RCA's with bad flys over the years.:sigh: It also sounds as if the 2AV2 is shorted, if it pegs the tester meter

Have you monitored the DC voltage on the 6JE6 grid? Usually the more negative it is, the lower cathode current would be. There are several .033-.068? caps across the horz eff coil too, which could cause it not to "dip" properly.

I have been able to lower the current in all post-CTC11 RCA's (not sure why yours increases beyond 220) by switching to the high line voltage tap on the power transformer primary.

The damper tube may be OK but a 6DW4/6CJ3/6CK3/6CH3 is easy to find. I have too many. I scrapped many RCA's with bad flys over the years.:sigh: It also sounds as if the 2AV2 is shorted, if it pegs the tester meter

Have you monitored the DC voltage on the 6JE6 grid? Usually the more negative it is, the lower cathode current would be. There are several .033-.068? caps across the horz eff coil too, which could cause it not to "dip" properly.

I have been able to lower the current in all post-CTC11 RCA's (not sure why yours increases beyond 220) by switching to the high line voltage tap on the power transformer primary.

Dave and Electronic Memory a little bit of progress has been made!

I replaced one cap between the h osc and hor output, i replaced the hor eff coil I broke with a metal tool, now i have a plastic one :). I replaced the 3a3 hv rect and 6bk4 shunt tube. Also subbed the 2av2. I swapped the damper and hor osc. I cleaned up the fire works show under the shunt tube. I hooked everything up and fed my nes into the vhf side of the tuner with a coaxial to uhf splitter.

Fired it up. This time as the hv comes up it goes between 200-240 ma instead of climing up to 300ma! I didnt have the anode cupped into the crt all the way and saw crazy high voltage. I shut it off and planted the cup in better.

So NOW theres still no sound, video, or vert/hor deflection BUT when you turn the set off theres a flash of something.

Also I can hear the hv forming around the cup of the flyback. Maybe I need to add another layer of silicon because it seems theres lots of corona forming.

Im afraid to keep it on longer than for the hv to come up because I dont know what its gonna do if I keep it on.

I will check voltages maybe with the hor output tube pulled out that way I can run it and check the B+ without being a nervous wreck.

I am happy to see the cathode current peak at 240ma instead of 300ma.

Edit: Ive been getting so worked up working on this thing I havent even checked B+ at the power supply or any screen voltages. Thinking of basic routine checks has been over shadowed by an almost fear/excitement combo. I will check B+, screen voltages, etc.

Good to hear you're making progress.

Definitely check your B+, h out screen and grid voltages, and report back...

Tip: if you have more than 1 meter you can grab multiple voltages at once with clip leads...if you have enough insulated color coded clip leads but only 1 meter, are careful and have plenty of cahoonies you can put a clip on every test point you care about and hot swap the meter... gotta be very careful not to touch anything conductive, but it can be done, and I have done it

Don't let the set freak you out of a logical state of mind.

Good to hear you're making progress.

Definitely check your B+, h out screen and grid voltages, and report back...

Tip: if you have more than 1 meter you can grab multiple voltages at once with clip leads...if you have enough insulated color coded clip leads but only 1 meter, are careful and have plenty of cahoonies you can put a clip on every test point you care about and hot swap the meter... gotta be very careful not to touch anything conductive, but it can be done, and I have done it

Don't let the set freak you out of a logical state of mind.

Thanks Tom. Its just because its a color tube set. I can play around with my tube zenith bw or my radios and fisher hifis and im a okay.

[QUOTE=Electronic M;3207025]Good to hear you're making progress.

Definitely check your B+, h out screen and grid voltages, and report back...

Here are my results for measuring the B+ supply

Secondary winding ohmd out correctly at 7.3 ohms, 350VAC about 20v high.

Now the rest is just totally off.

B+ 1 455v

2 454v

3 436v

4 375v

5 372v.

6 288v

Its all jacked up. On pins 1-7 for the hor output grid theres 432v even though theres two resistors between the screen and B+ supply where its suppose to drop to 140v ! Pin 8 calls for -55v and its 27 volts positive. Dont get me started on how wrong the crt voltages are too.

I know bad E caps will cause low B+ but what about this?

B+ can safely vary by 30 percent in most tube TVs.

Your h out grid being positive instead of negative is very bad, and usually means your oscillator is dead or not feeding the grid. If the h out screen is high it usually means the plate is drawing far too much current.... this makes sense since if your grid is not negative enough plate current will be high(and positive grid will red plate the hot).

What I'd do in your shoes is disconnect the plate and screen of the h output and work on the osc until the output grid goes negative. The grid gets negative by rectifying the drive signal from the osc...if you unplug the grid or cathode of the output a negative voltage will not develop at the grid.

B+ can safely vary by 30 percent in most tube TVs.

Your h out grid being positive instead of negative is very bad, and usually means your oscillator is dead or not feeding the grid. If the h out screen is high it usually means the plate is drawing far too much current.... this makes sense since if your grid is not negative enough plate current will be high(and positive grid will red plate the hot).

What I'd do in your shoes is disconnect the plate and screen of the h output and work on the osc until the output grid goes negative. The grid gets negative by rectifying the drive signal from the osc...if you unplug the grid or cathode of the output a negative voltage will not develop at the grid.


Not sure I follow all the way. Disconnect the supressor grid and leave the grid thats supposed to be negative connected?

Also the b+ voltages are way off. Like for B+ 5 is supposed to be like 125v and its almost twice that. Its supposed to drop down ex 420 to 400 to 375 to 350 to 275 so on.

So on 6je6 theres three grids which exact one do I disconnect along with the plate?. Im not surprised the osc isnt running because all those voltages are WAY off too

Also I took the voltage measurements for the h output with everything in place including the osc but none of the plate voltages or grid voltages are right.

I'd disconnect 1-7 and maybe pin 8...You could probably leave them connected for short powerups. The issue is that the screen grid will act like a plate if the plate is disconnected (or presents a higher resistance path, such as when the damper tube looses emission) and there will be screen current in excess of the dissapation specs damaging the tube on extended powerups.

The high B+ voltages are interesting. I no longer have a schematic for this chassis so without schematic voltage figure I can only gestimate how high the voltages are.

Be aware that the flyback is a large portion of the load on the B+ system, and when it is not drawing any current the B+ will be high. Also these sets have no B+ regulator circuits and expect around 115V input....If your line voltage is say 120V or higher, then that will also help push the B+ above spec.

The lower voltage rails may have reduced load on them from other circuits not drawing current...Vertical, audio out, and video amps are among the higher current loads on the lower B+ rails in most sets.

Heres the power supply Tom.

I was wondering if it was necessary to have the tubes populated to load it down for accurate B+ checks. I had the chassis pulled with tubes populated and it was whinning so I pulled all the tubes to check b+ out of cabinet. I didnt know the fly was apart of that set up.

When I disconnect the screen should I repopulate the horinontal tubes or..?

My slightly annebriated new years troubleshooting advice:

You are right, some of your B+ voltages are well outside of tolerance, however those rails are derrived from other rails that are also not dead on spec (and things may not be loaded correctly) which may give GIGO data.

No tubes should be pulled with the H out screen and plate (the top lead connection) disconnected. The fly will not (or at least should not) be loading the B+ in this state. The flyback typically only loads the highest B+ rail (through the damper)...So if it is driving you nuts that all your B+ rails are high and you have a variac you can cheat your way to normalizing your B+....To do this connect a DMM to the 405V rail on your schematic and dial your variac till that rail reads 405V then you can accurately access how screwed up your lower voltage B+ rails and circuit voltages are*. This is probably the ideal state to do what you should focus on: Getting the H osc on frequency with test instruments, getting the osc amplitude and waveform up to spec and most importantly getting that signal delivered to the H output grid and developing negative H output grid voltage within 10% deviation of spec. Only when you have a decent approximation of correct H output grid voltage will it be safe to reconnect the H out plate and screen (that is a $25+ output tube so I don't advise running it outside of specs). When you have good H out grid drive you should be able to put the circuit back to stock connection and then have HV, horizontal sweep, and other working-set-like goodness (though shorts on the fly side could hamper much of that if present).

If the osc is not behaving and is powered by a lower B+ rail that is way out of spec even with variac normalization of the high B+, then what you should do is trouble shoot everything on that lower rail and try to get that rail properly loaded by working circuits.

*This may lower your heaters and make marginal tubes show their uglier sides.

My slightly annebriated new years troubleshooting advice:

You are right, some of your B+ voltages are well outside of tolerance, however those rails are derrived from other rails that are also not dead on spec (and things may not be loaded correctly) which may give GIGO data.

No tubes should be pulled with the H out screen and plate (the top lead connection) disconnected. The fly will not (or at least should not) be loading the B+ in this state. The flyback typically only loads the highest B+ rail (through the damper)...So if it is driving you nuts that all your B+ rails are high and you have a variac you can cheat your way to normalizing your B+....To do this connect a DMM to the 405V rail on your schematic and dial your variac till that rail reads 405V then you can accurately access how screwed up your lower voltage B+ rails and circuit voltages are*. This is probably the ideal state to do what you should focus on: Getting the H osc on frequency with test instruments, getting the osc amplitude and waveform up to spec and most importantly getting that signal delivered to the H output grid and developing negative H output grid voltage within 10% deviation of spec. Only when you have a decent approximation of correct H output grid voltage will it be safe to reconnect the H out plate and screen (that is a $25+ output tube so I don't advise running it outside of specs). When you have good H out grid drive you should be able to put the circuit back to stock connection and then have HV, horizontal sweep, and other working-set-like goodness (though shorts on the fly side could hamper much of that if present).

If the osc is not behaving and is powered by a lower B+ rail that is way out of spec even with variac normalization of the high B+, then what you should do is trouble shoot everything on that lower rail and try to get that rail properly loaded by working circuits.

*This may lower your heaters and make marginal tubes show their uglier sides.

I have the screen disconnected. So now I am going to populate the tubes, connect it all to the yoke etc. Then check my voltages with everything except the h output tube.

With no tubes as of now, I have 50 volts positive at the grid of the h osc. Instead of swinging negative it goes up to 80 v positive at pin 2-6 of the h output. I will plug the tubes in and all that and check again. Hopefully the tubes will load down the B+. Theres a hor waveform coil that is connected to the cathode of the h osc with a .01 cap in parallel with then it goes to ground.

Alright,

So the reason the B+ was out of whack was from a 600 ohm 18 watt power resistor shorting internally. So instead of dropping 400v down to 350, it stayed 400.

With this corrected, I still have no sound or video. Grid 1 of the horz output is 55 volts positive.

Alright,

So the reason the B+ was out of whack was from a 600 ohm 18 watt power resistor shorting internally. So instead of dropping 400v down to 350, it stayed 400.

With this corrected, I still have no sound or video. Grid 1 of the horz output is 55 volts positive.

Probably time to turn your focus back to the horiz osc.