I mentioned a number of months back that I was looking at K-cars but someone pulled me aside, showed me this and told me to make the right choice.
For $2000 it seemed great.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8127.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8127.jpg

1982 AMC Eagle wagon. The part-time AWD car that seats six and I had no clue existed. I read over the specs and they seemed to run like a champ and score well in tests. Hell, even the commercials seemed appropriately cheesy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OHj72gFU3M

So what happened here was that I drove to the coast last weekend to inspect, start and test drive the car. It does have a few tiny rust spots and wear but for a car of its age it was in great shape and clean. The largest issue was missing rubberized trim pieces and the Select Drive system was not working and was locked into 2WD mode for safety.
I inquired with a local salvage yard and they happened to have an Eagle that came in a month earlier, so I also had a source of parts to do repairs AND almost all the missing trim pieces I needed.
I was driven down yesterday with the cash and paperwork completed and after the handshake I zipped back to the salvage yard for a three hour session on how to get almost everything I needed with a screwdriver and pliers and then back through the mountains. I now have a complete replacement vacuum line and actuator kit for the 4WD. By god, I cannot believe how many heads this turned on the highway and how many people approached me when I was stopped and asked where I got this car. Snazzy. :smoke:
The 300km trip otherwise was uneventful. The car ran, handled and performed great at mountain highway speeds up to 120km/h.

Anyways after dinner last night I decided to take the car out to see how it handled and get the ropes of driving and parking a wagon. About five minutes after the above photo was taken I drove up the steep hill in town....and the automatic transmission died and dropped into neutral. :sigh:
I did get the phonebook sized service manual with this car. The fault isolation matrix seems to indicate a hydraulic failure. The car itself was hopeless to shift into anything or make any transmission noises unless it was cold. The car was towed with my BCAA coverage to a transmission shop I know and we'll start learning how much more this car is going to cost me tomorrow.

On a lighter note, what the hell is the type of rubberized plastic AMC used on this thing? I cannot believe how flexible everything is after 35 years. There's stuff in my tracker that has long since gone brittle with age.

Probably uses the same plastic as the bumper filler pieces on my '78 Lincoln (which are also still flexible).

Those are somewhat interesting cars (this coming from someone who never cared for most cars 80's and newer), and quite rare here.

I think I've only seen 1-2 in person (maybe more before I started having an interest in cars), and the last one was at a repair shop in Superior this summer.

You probably aren't as bad off as you could be. A friend bought a BulletBird (early 60's T-bird) drove it home from Iowa on barely working brakes (the ride there was quite a humorous story) months later after getting vanity license plates they drive it for the first time since then and go to a restaurant...Now the trans had been leaking badly for a while, and leaving the restaurant they discover they have no reverse (their driveway is a steep hill down to the road so I know why they never noticed no reverse). IIRC they shifted into neutral pushed it out of the parking space, and drove to a transmission shop...The techs there were astonished the car made it there under its own power...The transmission case was cracked in half in the middle (apparently a common problem that year)...He had to find and buy a fresh core, and then pay to rebuild that...Luckily this happened in fall so it got stored/worked on all winter.

More mixed news today while the shop was still closed.

I went and tried the transmissiont this morning after it had gone cold and the transmission was extremely noisy but would go into gear, so it's not completely dead, just, unwell. Still no indications of particles in the fluid, nor does it look burned which is good. :scratch2:

I also dug through a bin of parts that the previous owner had and found the original AM/FM/cassette unit, which no longer fits as the opening had been widened to fit a standard car stereo head unit. There was also a lot of odds and ends for trim pieces, the dome lamp withe dual map lights and little replacement parts that will come in handy like a new lock for the ignition and the drivers door but more importantly I discovered this car is equipped with Cruise Control!
I could not get the cruise control to operate while I was driving however now that I know what the peculiar yellow box I restuffed under the dash was it may simply be a disconnected wire or vacuum line.

The transmission shouldn't be too much of an oddball. In those years AMC used a lot of Chrysler 727 variants and also some from GM. I'm a fan of the various Hornet/Concord/Eagle models but have never owned one. Earlier this year, while facing a possible job change which would have eliminated my company car, I very strongly considered buying a Hornet as a commuter. My job stayed so no Hornet...yet!

Ok.

*cracks knuckles*

You have a 4wd vehicle, that 'goes into neutral.' Red flag. The transfer case may be in neutral. If the 'transmission' sounds like it's grinding gears while in gear, or if it's in neutral completely and you put it in drive for a minute, then put it in park, and it makes a loud fast grinding, you're looking at a transfer case problem. You already indicated that it had a transfer case issue.

Check the trans fluid, engine running, in park, on a level ground. Is it in normal range, or too high/low? Check it again with engine off and compare the levels. Should be much higher on the stick when it's off. If there isn't much difference, the trans isn't sucking in fluid like it should. The filter could be clogged, or fallen down.

I'm not sure which transmission is in that Eagle, but the good news is that it's either a normal GM or Chrysler. So parts will be available.

As an aside, here's a funny story. When I was in college, a friend of mine said that his friend was going to get an oil change in his 'AMG' and asked me if I'd like to tag along. I told him I didn't give much of a shit about Mercedes, but I wouldn't mind coming along. We strolled through the parking lot and stopped at a black AMC Eagle, just like yours. My friend who had thought it was an AMG was all pouty, and I was happy as a clam. It's a fucking cool car. It has shitty toggle switches on the dash board because AMC was so poor! But it's cool.

You have a 4wd vehicle, that 'goes into neutral.' Red flag. The transfer case may be in neutral. If the 'transmission' sounds like it's grinding gears while in gear, or if it's in neutral completely and you put it in drive for a minute, then put it in park, and it makes a loud fast grinding, you're looking at a transfer case problem. You already indicated that it had a transfer case issue.
No grinding gear noises actually, or at least compared to what I know of a manual transmission there's no obvious gear grinding going on. Think more the sound of a power steering pump under load. The previous owner also mentioned he had just serviced the transfer case and the rear differential, so both have recently had their fluids changed as well.

Check the trans fluid, engine running, in park, on a level ground. Is it in normal range, or too high/low? Check it again with engine off and compare the levels. Should be much higher on the stick when it's off. If there isn't much difference, the trans isn't sucking in fluid like it should. The filter could be clogged, or fallen down.


This was one of the first things I did once I was rolled into a parking lot. The fluid didn't smell, did not look burned, I didn't see anything shiny in the fluid but it was topped off before we left and was still reading high, both at hot idle and with the engine off. I checked it again this morning and still read the same, even after the car had warmed up, so I am still thinking it is a hydraulic issue. I was able to get it to shift into a gear this morning while cold but it was noisy, took a few seconds and would fail back to neutral and go quiet if I tried shifting out again.

That has to be the most versatile classic car one can get their hands on. I like the look of the '80 best but I don't care for its always-on 4WD. I reckon that could be changed without much trouble.

Many moons ago a neighbor got an '83 Concord DL wagon for daily use after his '84 Mercury Lynx got rear-ended, a crackup that did little more than cave in the bumper. He didn't have it for long before his son got his driver's license and promptly tore up the driver's side fender.

If you're lucky, the filter just fell out, or failed in some way. Easy fix, you just need to get under the car and have ready a large, deep oil pan. The empty power steering pump whine is tell tale of the transmission oil pump picking up air.

For whatever its worth, Ive never owned one, but about every post office mailman here used them back in the day. 4 wheel drives, except for trucks, were pretty much non-existing at that time. They held a lot of mail, would go anywhere, rode better than a truck, better mileage than a truck, and were decent vehicles. Not to mention decent looking.

You have to keep in mind that front wheel drives barely existed back then too. They were kinda ahead of their time. I always liked them but never owned one. Fix it up good and you'll be set for quite a while.

Take a good look at what vehicles were available at that time and you will understand how innovative they were. Kind of like the VW Bug or Karma Ghia, but in a different way of course.

I always wanted one of those when I was delivering pizza. That would be a beast!

PS- You always find the coolest stuff...

Had something kind of similar happen to me recently. I found a car for sale that I liked, went and looked at it, and agreed to buy it. A few days later I came back, completed the deal, and LITERALLY 30 MINUTES LATER AS I WAS DRIVING HOME the check engine light came on. The car sounded normal and drove fine so I continued on my way, but not without spending the duration of the trip home wondering if I got ripped off. Turns out it was really no big deal, just a sensor in the emission control system. I had it checked by a mechanic and he couldn't find anything wrong. This was my first car purchase, and how I would have paid for major repairs I'm not sure. After a giving it some hammer on the highway and a few hundred miles of driving, no warning lights have returned. Bullet dodged.

Good luck, you found a really cool and unique car. This is one of the few 80s cars I wouldn't mind having, along with a Mercedes diesel of course. BTW what's under the hood? Wikipedia lists several engine options for this model.:scratch2:

You have to keep in mind that front wheel drives barely existed back then too. They were kinda ahead of their time. I always liked them but never owned one. Fix it up good and you'll be set for quite a while.

Take a good look at what vehicles were available at that time and you will understand how innovative they were. Kind of like the VW Bug or Karma Ghia, but in a different way of course.

I've never been a real fan of transverse engines because it made servicing a lot of cars really complicated. I was okay with the Subaru Justy being transverse however it's a three cylinder so you still ended up with enough space under the hood to comfortably do your own work and not need specialty tools.

Even though this is a much larger station wagon compared to my current Geo Tracker and ten years older there are quite a few characteristics it shares with my parents later Subaru Outback Legacy while also retaining some of those really unique features that are not so much desireable but otherwise you'd want to clutter up the yard with another car just to say you have it, like the bench seats. showing up almost anywhere while playing the role of a clown car is amusing.

Also good christ Vanagon's and their equivalents got incredibly expensive. Even 25 year old import Delicas are $10000+

I'd never heard of a Delica until a guy at church bought one earlier this year to replace his rusted-out Quigley. I told him he's my hero!

Hemming's Classic Car has a cover story this month (just read it today) on the very rare Eagle convertible.

In about 1990 I tagged along on a trip to a mountain resort in WV. It seemed like every other house had an Eagle in the driveway. At the time it really was among the most civilized 4wd vehicle you could find, though SUV's and pickups where on their way up the ladder.

Vanagons suck. I mean, there's a reason literally everyone replaces the arthritic VW motor with something else. If you want a minivan, just save yourself the trouble and buy a Caravan.

I worked on a Vanagon once, with a Ford Focus engine in it. Manual transmission, 4 speed. The man wanted to drive it on the highway, cuz it was a camper, but 4th gear just wasn't tall enough, at 60mph the motor was buzzing away at 4000rpm. After much deliberation and research, we came up with a plan. I replaced the 4th gear gears with 5th gear gears from a 5 speed. There's now a giant ass gap between 3rd and 4th, but in 4th it cruises on the highway with low rpm. Man was happy as a clam.

I'm one of those people who don't get hotel rooms when they travel. I think in the last five years I've only had to get a room once. Minivans are nice for sleeping out of but I've always hated the engine being stuffed up and under the front dash, mind you with these cars it can be not much better but I still remember how much of a pain in the ass getting the back cover off the engine compartment in an Aerostar was.

Aerostars and Astrovans also suck. Caravans are just better minivans than the competition. I suppose the Ford and GM FWD minivan equivalents aren't so bad, though.

I worked on a Vanagon once, with a Ford Focus engine in it. Manual transmission, 4 speed. The man wanted to drive it on the highway, cuz it was a camper, but 4th gear just wasn't tall enough, at 60mph the motor was buzzing away at 4000rpm. After much deliberation and research, we came up with a plan. I replaced the 4th gear gears with 5th gear gears from a 5 speed. There's now a giant ass gap between 3rd and 4th, but in 4th it cruises on the highway with low rpm. Man was happy as a clam.
So you basically turned it into a 4-speed overdrive hm? The behavior of the modified 4-speed sounds like that of our '84 Lynx. The car may be long gone but I vividly recall many small details.

What did the transmission come out of?

So you basically turned it into a 4-speed overdrive hm? The behavior of the modified 4-speed sounds like that of our '84 Lynx. The car may be long gone but I vividly recall many small details.

What did the transmission come out of?

It was the original Vanagon transmission. If I recall, the numbers suggested that the 4 speed was just barely an overdrive as it was, but yeah, basically. Fortunately, there's a company in Cali that does nothing but make VW manual transmission parts. The guy I talked to there was super helpful and knew literally everything about the subject.

I've always thought those Eagles were cool. kind of like a proto-crossover with real 4WD and torque, no effeminate lines, no traverse engines, no dash tablet infotainment.......

The car wasn't in the parking lot when I drove past the shop on Friday afternoon so I am guessing we will know the exact prognosis within the next day or so.

It was the original Vanagon transmission. If I recall, the numbers suggested that the 4 speed was just barely an overdrive as it was, but yeah, basically. Fortunately, there's a company in Cali that does nothing but make VW manual transmission parts. The guy I talked to there was super helpful and knew literally everything about the subject.
Yeah I figured, I just wonder how that transmission would bolt up to a Focus engine.

Man, you guys really struck gold with that shop. Sure beats swapping out the entire tranny, nothing was wasted, sweet.

Yeah I figured, I just wonder how that transmission would bolt up to a Focus engine.

Man, you guys really struck gold with that shop. Sure beats swapping out the entire tranny, nothing was wasted, sweet.

Heh, as I mentioned, Vanagon engines suck, and everyone knows it. I suppose so many people owned camper vans with those depressing VW motors, that somewhere along the line, someone figured there was a market to sell these guys engine swap kits. The Focus engine doesn't bolt up to a VW trans, there's an adapter plate. It's like a 1 inch thick aluminum plate, with all the appropriate bolt holes for that particular engine/trans pair.

And the envelope, please...




***************************************
* *
* STUPIDEST CAR CHOICE OF 2018 *
* *
* *
* *
* *
* MIPS *
* *
* "Bought a 1982 AMC Eagle for $2000, *
* However needs $3500 Transmission rebuild" *
* *
* *
***************************************
The Prophecy was fulfilled. (https://youtu.be/HDJPypVooZE)
Well, I guess that writes off any personal expenses for the next six months. https://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-suicide.gif

The transmission was dropped and an inspection was performed. The fluid was found to be burned indeed while particles were found in the filter and the pump had failed. A used transmission is not available (that I already knew) so the only viable solution is to have this transmission torn down and completely rebuilt, which at the least comes with an 80000km warranty. Now that figure is worst-case. If they find components in the transmission are still good that cost will go down but this is still a costly mistake.

No need to get sucked in by a second con artist. There ought to be a few transmissions that can go into that thing. As far as I know it uses the same underpinnings as an ordinary Jeep. I'm sure our resident mechanic can chime in with more info.

Personally I'd take the opportunity to get rid of the slushbox and turn it into a manual.

Didn't you say one of the wrecking yards near you had an Eagle?...What about the trans in the wrecking yard Eagle?

We inquired about that. It and its transfer case were pulled last week.
We also inquired about other salvage units. They are out there in the $800 range (new seals and installation extra, so about $1500) however I'm basing off the luck I had when I did the same with my Tracker. Sure it was a partial rebuild with a quarter the mileage but I barely reached Valemont 350km to the north and the needle bearing whine came right back. There is a chrysler equiv that some research seems to indicate however the AMC bellhousing mounts are not compatible. The option to go Manual still remains however the cost of getting a decent used transmission because of their desireability puts me close to the $3500 mark again after all the work is done.

I did the stupid anyways and gave the go-ahead to proceed on the rebuild. In the long run it will cost me money but if the Tracker sells I end up making even for the forseeable future and have to push paint and upholstry repairs until next summer as opposed to this winter and next spring. I already do 20000km in a car every year so the assurance that the transmission, which is the second most scary thing in this car besides the transfer case, will be covered under a warranty should it fail again under my initial ownership.
What gets me is that the previous owner was not a somebody in the boonies who dragged the car out of the woods, drove it for a few clicks and then decided to turf it before it went on him. Like, the guy had two other cars in excellent condition, a house, two kids and a wife. The purchase came with a mountain of replacement parts, service docs and we went on a lengthy test drive while allowing me to crawl in around and under the car. He didn't try to save his losses by holding to new parts nor prevent me from catching what might be an attempt to hide any problems. I'm starting to think that the car actually was fine for the decade he owned the car as a leisure wagon to the local hotsprings and simply the drive through the mountains was the point that pushed it from "I'm old and my seals are going but I can still do a long weekend drive to Radium" to "If you are going to push me like this I'm going to teach you a lesson about old seals"

Anyways after this I'm swearing off automatic transmissions again unless I'm forced. Stupid things.

Seller could have easily thought it was fine.

Any vehicle Ive ever bought with an AT the last 40 years is always a gamble but a stupid test I learned long ago is to do the following. Put it in drive with a foot on the brake pedal and step on the gas a little. The engine should bog down. If it doesnt the tranny is crap. Do the same in reverse. If it does bog down it could still be crap but its less likely. Obviously it needs to shift well too.

Thats an old mechanic and car buyers test from the 70's. Your results may vary.

You got screwed by that mechanic, dude. Never authorize a tear down of a transmission or something terribly major like that. Once they've taken it apart, they've got you by the balls and can charge you anything they like (like $3500 for a simple old fashioned transmission), because it's in their shop and it's in pieces. You gotta pay them to tear it down whether or not you OK'd the repair, and if you decide to take it somewhere else, it'll be in pieces and the next mechanic will charge you more because of it, plus the towing. A trans on that is maybe a $2000 job, perhaps up to $2500, but too late now.

Also, why would you swear off automatic transmissions? Do you have ANY idea how much money it costs to rebuild a manual transmission? LOL you funny guy! Last manual transmission I rebuilt was maybe $4-5k, and MY prices are actually reasonable.

You really should have consulted somebody before letting your mechanic tear it down. However, all things considered, you're not doing too terribly. So you paid a little too much for the car, had some bad luck, and paid a little too much for a repair. Really, you're not too far behind. My advice, keep that car in good shape, because you're in it for the long haul now. And next problem you have with it, shop around.

If you've been burnt on a lot of bad automatic trans look for something that uses a Ford C6 auto. They are grenade proof and generally really solid. When I got my Lincoln at 57K on the clock the trans fluid was a pinch dark and there was an occasional speck of metal on some level checks...It leaks enough that instead of changing the fluid once a year I end up putting about that much in it some years. Now at 70K of hauling that suburban weight sedan with lots of hard accelerating and hills, it still does everything it should despite people telling me near the start that I should have it rebuilt...I probably will someday, but I can't help but like how long it is lasting. :D

You got screwed by that mechanic, dude. Never authorize a tear down of a transmission or something terribly major like that. Once they've taken it apart, they've got you by the balls and can charge you anything they like (like $3500 for a simple old fashioned transmission), because it's in their shop and it's in pieces. You gotta pay them to tear it down whether or not you OK'd the repair, and if you decide to take it somewhere else, it'll be in pieces and the next mechanic will charge you more because of it, plus the towing. A trans on that is maybe a $2000 job, perhaps up to $2500, but too late now.

Also, why would you swear off automatic transmissions? Do you have ANY idea how much money it costs to rebuild a manual transmission? LOL you funny guy! Last manual transmission I rebuilt was maybe $4-5k, and MY prices are actually reasonable.

You really should have consulted somebody before letting your mechanic tear it down. However, all things considered, you're not doing too terribly. So you paid a little too much for the car, had some bad luck, and paid a little too much for a repair. Really, you're not too far behind. My advice, keep that car in good shape, because you're in it for the long haul now. And next problem you have with it, shop around.

Aren't prices a lot higher in Canada? Maybe it isn't as high as we think. :scratch2:

Aren't prices a lot higher in Canada? Maybe it isn't as high as we think. :scratch2:

Good point, Dave!

Today a Canadian dollar is worth only 77 cents here in the U.S.

So MIPS' $3500CDN is only $2,700 in US dollars.

.

If you've been burnt on a lot of bad automatic trans look for something that uses a Ford C6 auto. They are grenade proof and generally really solid. When I got my Lincoln at 57K on the clock the trans fluid was a pinch dark and there was an occasional speck of metal on some level checks...It leaks enough that instead of changing the fluid once a year I end up putting about that much in it some years. Now at 70K of hauling that suburban weight sedan with lots of hard accelerating and hills, it still does everything it should despite people telling me near the start that I should have it rebuilt...I probably will someday, but I can't help but like how long it is lasting. :D

Yep, the C6 is almost industructible. In a car you should get 300K miles out of it with a oil change or 2. Ive ran them in trucks for many years and to show you my love of that tranny, I put one in my 1992 truck instead of its crappy 5 speed manual. That year did not come with them so I did some searching for parts to do it but worth it all. the only one I ever wore out was in a low geared 1/2 ton with over 300K. Cars have a lot less wind resistance so will last longer. The only downfall of the C6 is a little less mileage as they eat horsepower.

Never authorize a tear down of a transmission or something terribly major like that. Once they've taken it apart, they've got you by the balls and can charge you anything they like (like $3500 for a simple old fashioned transmission), because it's in their shop and it's in pieces. You gotta pay them to tear it down whether or not you OK'd the repair, and if you decide to take it somewhere else, it'll be in pieces and the next mechanic will charge you more because of it, plus the towing. A trans on that is maybe a $2000 job, perhaps up to $2500, but too late now.

I didn't tow it to their shop instead of my house just for them to admire it, did I? It's almost like I wanted them to repair it because there are no other practical options. I'll do body, electrical, brakes and the engine but I don't dare disturb the dragons and unspoken black magic that lives inside the transmission of every car. I'll leave that to a professional.

Good point, Dave!

Today a Canadian dollar is worth only 77 cents here in the U.S.

So MIPS' $3500CDN is only $2,700 in US dollars.
Correct. Your USD price may seem lower but after conversion it's a different number.
I know someone who recently paid $3500USD for a Mercedes. That sounds like a great deal until you convert to $CDN, then it's $4545.05 before taxes.

I don't dare disturb the dragons and unspoken black magic that lives inside the transmission of every car. I'll leave that to a professional.

Heh. And that right there is why I make a living.

Also, I didn't realize the disparity between our currencies, last time I looked, they weren't that far off. :/

An engine at least uses cheap specialty tools half the time, the other half you can make do with something as simple as a long breaker bar instead of a chain wrench. Transmissions are something where cleanliness and absolute tolerances are a bit more critical. I simply do not have the space or finances to afford most of the tools a transmission requires to service them, plus you try not to regularly drop and open your transmission for service when your life isn't drag racing. ;)

An engine at least uses cheap specialty tools half the time, the other half you can make do with something as simple as a long breaker bar instead of a chain wrench. Transmissions are something where cleanliness and absolute tolerances are a bit more critical. I simply do not have the space or finances to afford most of the tools a transmission requires to service them, plus you try not to regularly drop and open your transmission for service when your life isn't drag racing. ;)

I know of some manual trans nuts who have gotten too good at replacing clutches.

Well the good news came in and with the transmission torn down the initial diagnoses is not as bad as it sounds. It wasn't a catastrophic failure. It's just old. :smoke:
The particles and burned fluid were just from several bands and clutches finally giving out and not due to prolonged damage on other components. The pump itself is just worn and is being replaced entirely. More major components like the torque converter and planetary are fine. The parts are already in the city so I again authorized for the full rebuild to proceed and hopefully it will be ready before Friday.

Good luck!

I know of some manual trans nuts who have gotten too good at replacing clutches.No doubt they're even better at tearing them up.
Well the good news came in and with the transmission torn down the initial diagnoses is not as bad as it sounds. It wasn't a catastrophic failure. It's just old. :smoke:
The particles and burned fluid were just from several bands and clutches finally giving out and not due to prolonged damage on other components. The pump itself is just worn and is being replaced entirely. More major components like the torque converter and planetary are fine. The parts are already in the city so I again authorized for the full rebuild to proceed and hopefully it will be ready before Friday.
That's awesome, good on ya. You really dodged a bullet there.

It lives.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8141.jpg

Went out last night to put some fresh gas through the fuel system along with some line antifreeze before it is winterized and today the front seats were pulled out to clean everything and inspect why the power seats are so sluggish. The front seats are bolted from UNDERNEATH THE CAR which seems stupid but strange to AMC's record so far the bolts were not rusted tight. I found $4 in loose coins. Was not however able to figure out how to remove the back seat (I assume it too unbolts from under the car) so that stays in for now but both the front and back need to be shampoo'd. It's like there is soot or something embedded in the fabric. I'm just gonna pay someone else to deal with that and I can work on the grime that's caked into the texture of the trim plastics,

I tested both power seat assemblies and it seems there must be a lot of gummed up grease. I gave it a quick clean and oil but it's persistant so I'll probably have to regrease the gearhouses on both seats.
Also I have a lot of oil getting into the intake. The current filter is soaked and ruined. I verified the choke and heated air actuators and gates were working fine and verified the PCV was not stuck closed. Found nothing so I cleaned everything and reassembled it. Didn't find new oil in a test drive so not sure what happened there....

No doubt they're even better at tearing them up.


In the case of one of my friends, the damage was by inheritance...He bought one used manual performance package equipped Honda Civic with a clutch that had very little life left and a hacked in security system and other mods by the previous owners that eventually made him give up on that one and get another just like it from the same place. The second had the same clutch wear but the electrical was not messed up by previous owner mods.

An oil soaked air filter usually means blow by.

My thought exactly.
If I read the service docs there's a hose that directly connects the air filter housing to the top of the valve cover. Onside the air filter housing the hose terminates at a small plastic bucket with a felt pad for a filter. It seems as if air is drawn in through this point so the valve cover can breathe but that then does not explain why the valve cover still has its own PCV. Likewise there must of been a LOT of oil that was coughed up as the bucket was full, the felt was drenched and everything around it was soaked.
The problem is known and mentioned here (http://forums.amceaglesden.com/index.php?topic=43752.0) and I performed the steps to verify the mentioned actuators were working. They were, so I can't tell what happened. I will have to verify cylinder compression when I replace the plugs but the engine sure isn't burning oil.

I assume you checked the PCV valve and it's not clogged?

It could also have a bad baffle inside the valve cover letting oil into the vent hose.

Blow by should be pretty easy to spot - just take the oil cap off with the motor running. If it's farting out a lot of air, then it's blow by. I'd replace the PCV anyway, literally like $5, good for maintenance. You could always just install an oil catch can if all else fails.

Well then it's not blow-by. With the oil cap off there wasn't really any air coming out. The engine is still rather young to be having those kinds of problems unless someone's been abusing their maintenance. In yank speak it only has 155000 miles on the odometer.

Anyways I gave it some fuel stabilizer and antifreeze to make it survive the winter and then parked and disconnected the battery so it can survive on a solar charger to keep it topped-up.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8149.jpg

Here's the interior before I yanked the center console out.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8151.jpg

...and the rest of the car.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8150.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8152.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8148.jpg

The goals this winter are to repair the 4WD as I indeed tried to use it before I parked it and it will not come out of 4WD and get the initial repairs on the audio done. The four speakers are toast and the installed Alpine has an eye searing red and blue theme going on. The console is too far carved up to reinstall the original radio so in goes a Sony MDX-C5970R and the rough-in connections for the rest of the upcoming components like the Motorola MDT, telephone (yes you heard that right (https://youtu.be/crm79j1qeqA)), CB radio, satellite radio and trunk GPS unit for the MDT. Might also be wise to install an Immobilizer as the car will be decked with tech but the starter solenoid is in an awful place so I am wondering what else I could have physically disconnect and prevent the car from starting.
I also need to see what components of the Cruise Control are missing. I got parts but I'm starting to wonder what pieces are spares and which were removed but not reinstalled.
Come summer we should have the money to get new jackstands and start working on the underside and the upholstery which as you can see needs a lot of work.
Oh yeah, the Habitat for Humanity ReStore finally had something I needed for once....

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8153.jpg

Your engine may simply need to breathe more. One of those cheap screen vent caps, try one on the opposing valve cover from the PCV valve, or use one in place of that valve which may be better.

Make sure that place on the carb that the pcv vents too has suction as someone may have messed with it.

Please note, I have never worked on one of these. Mostly Fords from 1950-92 and some pre-fuel injection Chevys.

In the case of one of my friends, the damage was by inheritance...He bought one used manual performance package equipped Honda Civic with a clutch that had very little life left and a hacked in security system and other mods by the previous owners that eventually made him give up on that one and get another just like it from the same place. The second had the same clutch wear but the electrical was not messed up by previous owner mods.
There's a red flag the size of a Persian rug.

The four speakers are toast and the installed Alpine has an eye searing red and blue theme going on. The console is too far carved up to reinstall the original radio so in goes a Sony MDX-C5970R and the rough-in connections for the rest of the upcoming components like the Motorola MDT, telephone (yes you heard that right (https://youtu.be/crm79j1qeqA)), CB radio, satellite radio and trunk GPS unit for the MDT.
Aftermarket stereos, blech. I think an unmolested console from a junker could be found without a whole lot of trouble.

How can a car phone be used without the AMPS network?

The junkyard Eagle I went through was already missing its console so I currently have no source for a replacement. a Minidisc deck at least seems way more novelty than a CD player anyways.

It's funny. The carphone is not an actual AMPS unit but a bluetooth device sold by Cartel until a few years ago. It looks and acts exactly like a carphone with a speakerphone (and supports the mute function in the aftermarket stereo) but has a bluetooth button that when pressed pairs with your cellphone so you don't have to pull it out of your pocket.

http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee386/fcocas/DSCN2045.jpg

The problem is even on liquidation they are still about $250, so I can'y make an accompanying bag phone.

I've been tempted to take a Bluetooth to landline adapter and install a rotary dial phone as the car phone in my Lincoln. :D

Tried that when I put a red telephone in a briefcase. The GE and Cobra bluetooth bridges I tried did not support pulse dialing.

You probably got the wrong brand. I need to ask what some of my friends use I know two different folks that have no landline connection and use adapters to use their the wiring in their houses...And both have some rotary phones in their collection that they actively use.

I'm an auto tech for 38 years and seen it all and I also rebuilt many transmissions in the past so if that amc had any metal filings in there regardless, the converter must always be changed in a rebuild because metal trapped in the converter move on to the delicate valves in the valve body and can create havoc and burn the unit up. As for the c6 yes they are tough but the draw back with those units is the check balls in the valve body, they are rubber balls and they also have what they called hockey pucks and they are rubber as well and they literally disappear after awhile they just dissolve leaving the transmission with only 1st gear, drive, and reverse.

so I am wondering what else I could have physically disconnect and prevent the car from starting.

Either the starter wire coming from the ignition switch, or the power wire going to the distributor. The starter wire is the usual pick for aftermarket alarm installs, it's right where you're already working. They put a relay in the middle of it, when energized by the alarm, it disconnects the starter wire. You don't want to interfere with any of the other wires from the ignition switch, because they generally carry a lot of current, too much for a little relay.

I'm an auto tech for 38 years and seen it all and I also rebuilt many transmissions in the past so if that amc had any metal filings in there regardless, the converter must always be changed in a rebuild because metal trapped in the converter move on to the delicate valves in the valve body and can create havoc and burn the unit up. As for the c6 yes they are tough but the draw back with those units is the check balls in the valve body, they are rubber balls and they also have what they called hockey pucks and they are rubber as well and they literally disappear after awhile they just dissolve leaving the transmission with only 1st gear, drive, and reverse.

^ this. Also, is it a C6? I would've leaned more towards a torqueflite or some hydramatic. Meh.

Yes most were Chrysler trans but in a previous post someone mentioned a c6 as being a tough trans. 727 trans were good but they had the annoying converter leak down and the vehicle would not move unless you put it in neutral for about 30 seconds so the converter could fill then it was fine the rest of the day.

I was the poster i think and I was speaking of Ford C6's. What you said might happen but Ive never seen it, never had one that missed 2nd gear. i do know missing 2nd gear with an auto tranny would not stop me from driving it until it quit.

Ive never had a new vehicle and never had one with under 100K miles and drive them until they rust into 3 pieces and never lost 2nd gear. That does not mean you are wrong, but I think it must be rare.

Working in a shop you will see things like that though, and there were millions of C6 Fords made so I imagine you did get some of them. The only thing I personally remember people I knew doing to them was having shift kits installed as they can be sluggish.

I was the poster i think and I was speaking of Ford C6's. What you said might happen but Ive never seen it, never had one that missed 2nd gear. i do know missing 2nd gear with an auto tranny would not stop me from driving it until it quit.

Ive never had a new vehicle and never had one with under 100K miles and drive them until they rust into 3 pieces and never lost 2nd gear. That does not mean you are wrong, but I think it must be rare.

Working in a shop you will see things like that though, and there were millions of C6 Fords made so I imagine you did get some of them. The only thing I personally remember people I knew doing to them was having shift kits installed as they can be sluggish. well no doubt a shift kit would have eliminated the problem with the rubber check balls disintegrating but it happened more then you would think and transmission shops also said the same but the rubber balls could not be substituted with steel balls I'm not really sure why but a shift kit would have had the steel balls. So I guess you were a lucky one never to have this type of problem and I'm sure there were more c6 transmissions out there that were fine compared to the ones with a check ball problem , I'm sure it was widespread.

Im still lucky as Im still running 2 of them, LOL Now I suppose a week from now my main trucks C6 tranny will go to heck, LOL I did have one with a shift kit when I got it but the others not that I know of. They could have though as that was so common back in the day to add the shift kits regardless of the tranny.

I think GM powerglides made the tranny kits popular, and Im not a powerglide hater either as they had their place in history and were cheap to maintain. Ive had 2 and 1 of them still sits in the shed ready for action 30 years later, LOL

Ahh the powerglide to think they used to pull really big campers, 2 speed no less.

Tried that when I put a red telephone in a briefcase. The GE and Cobra bluetooth bridges I tried did not support pulse dialing.

Here ya go:

https://www.amazon.com/Xtreme-Technologies-BT-Bluetooth-Gateway/dp/B00135XU7Q/ref=pd_sbs_107_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00135XU7Q&pd_rd_r=ebb198f6-c73c-11e8-8e16-130f854170ed&pd_rd_w=7I00U&pd_rd_wg=H9Y4b&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=53dead45-2b3d-4b73-bafb-fe26a7f14aac&pf_rd_r=3CR982X21G49BBT8EPD4&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=3CR982X21G49BBT8EPD4

Been meaning to get one of those to power my WE rotary phones at home.

C6's are alright. The funny thing is that they're Ford's knockoff of Chrysler's Torqueflite. Ford wanted to license the TF, but they got shit from the media for not making their own, so they copied it instead. Legit if you open a C6 and a TF next to each other, several parts look the same.

C6's are alright. The funny thing is that they're Ford's knockoff of Chrysler's Torqueflite. Ford wanted to license the TF, but they got shit from the media for not making their own, so they copied it instead. Legit if you open a C6 and a TF next to each other, several parts look the same.

They paid Chrysler $7.5M for the rights to build the Torqueflite design.
It was the Simpson gear set that was copied. They designed their own torque convertor.
This information is per either Allpar or Lee Iacocca's book. :thmbsp:

Well that was American motors, Alittle bit of everything . They had parts that looked like ford and Chrysler and gm.

There really is not much else I can do on the car now without jackstands but that transmission has pushed that investment months ahead. In the meantime I've been trying to figure out what new tools I will need and what needs attention. I have confirmed I have one set of sensors and actuators for the cruise control plus a spare control unit and combination switch for the steering column. That isn't a priority for now but the 4WD is.
I confirmed that the transfer case is currently in 2WD mode but the front hub is locked. Applying a vacuum doesn't seem to disengage it.

I pulled out the salvaged actuators I got and found that while its transfer case actuator was fine the other was also immobile. It took about 45 minutes of applying penetrating oil and persuasion in a vice to unfreeze that and dump out a bunch of rust so my guess is that the one in the car has also seized. That will have to come out and be repaired or replaced when I replace the front diff oil. That alone seems like I will need to get some torx drivers because the actuator is hidden under a rock pan.

Also I am still struggling to find any significant rust. I spent half an hour under the car looking in every tight spot trying to find something serious but aside from really small bits here and there the integrity of everything but the suspension's rubber bushings is amazing. I have freaking mount points that go through the body where bolts have either rusted out or have been so loose they rattle around but the body itself has not started rusting from these mating surfaces. How can a factory rust treatment be this good??

Why are you fixing the 4wd? The car is a survivor, I wouldn't be driving it anywhere 4wd is needed.

My thought on old cars is: if it has an option, that option should work even if I don't need it to. I would be pretty worried about driving the car on salted roads.

I remember reading years ago that a primary cause of problems with transfer cases was from lack of use.

My thought on old cars is: if it has an option, that option should work even if I don't need it to. I would be pretty worried about driving the car on salted roads.

I remember reading years ago that a primary cause of problems with transfer cases was from lack of use.

I agree for the most part, but a ride like this I would never have out in snow or ice so I would not be concerned about the 4wd.

Why are you fixing the 4wd? The car is a survivor, I wouldn't be driving it anywhere 4wd is needed.

It's not 4WD in that you need sick mud flaps and killer suspension to climb mountains. If I wanted that I'd of bought a 4WD Tracker. It's 4WD in that you get traction on gravel roads, snowy highways and in my case, getting out of the driveway in winter. My 2WD Geo Tracker cannot exit the driveway with snow on the ground or it WILL NOT get out again until the snow melts. This is from experience.

I know all long the Pacific Northwest it is HIGHLY recommended you own a vehicle which can handle extended travel on paved highways and occasional dirt roads and winter mountain passes. In British Columbia especially as of October 1 you are required by law to have either winter tires installed or carry chains. Functioning 4WD that can be switched off for economy was considered when I pulled the trigger on this because putting chains on halfway up the Coq sucks but 4WD makes the ordeal a bit nicer until you hit Hope and you're 1000 feet below the snow line again and 4WD is no longer needed the the last 200km to Vancouver.

I would be pretty worried about driving the car on salted roads.
Even with the Tracker I've had so many people say how it's strange seeing cars on the road out here that back East have not been seen on highways for over a decade because they have all succumbed to major rust.
Fact is out West we rarely use salt in the mountains because there are so many grades of gravel Road Maintenance can choose from and it can be recycled every spring when the highways are swept. The only times we use salt are when there are black ice warnings and it's a sprayed brine. So you end up with all levels of ancient cars running as daily drivers with almost no salt corrosion but LOTS of sandblasting and stone chips.
One of my neighbors drives a Lada Niva.

My uncle was too poor for jack stands so he took thick logs of the right length and stuck them under the frame rails when working.

My 4 stands are a weird mix. One is the survivor of a set I bought new. Its match got crushed when the folks asked me to check something on their SUV while it was parked on the non-level part of the driveway...It rolled forward as I was raising it and squished the stand it knocked over (I learned to never try jacking on a slope that day). The second was a city find...Someone left it and a matching crummy floor jack (only kept because it is the only hydraulic jack I've found that fits under dads low slung 07 Accord) on the left turn median of Capitol drive at Lily Rd. a couple of years back and after seeing them a couple days straight driving to work I finally scooped them up. I also have a NIB set of stands I have not needed yet that the folks bought me to replace the one that their suv squished.

Gonna have to soapbox for a moment and point out that either the EaglesDen Forums (apparently there's a forum revolving around the AMC Eagle) have administrators that either never check for new registrations or keep denying my registration and nuking the account before I can even log into the site properly.
I have now tried three different times to register and the welcome email ended up in my spam folder and a note that the new account is disabled until an administrator can approve it and send an email (never arrives) and a few days later you try again to login and get a "this account does not exist". Nice people. Looks like I'm on my own for casual work on this car. :thumbsdn:

Have you tried here:
http://theamcforum.com/forum/forums.html
Lots of good stuff on there.

I have now tried three different times to register and the welcome email ended up in my spam folder and a note that the new account is disabled until an administrator can approve it and send an email (never arrives) and a few days later you try again to login and get a "this account does not exist". Nice people. Looks like I'm on my own for casual work on this car. :thumbsdn:

The thing is with forums, especially ones that aren't very busy, is that they get hit real bad with spam bots. Because they don't want to find a real solution to the problem, the admins just check the box that says all accounts need admin approval... and then they always forget to check if there's any new members pending. I wouldn't be too mad at them, they probably just don't check the thing very often.

nvm

While working inside the drivers side door to repair the dust cap inside the key lock and figure out why the door handle felt broken (it wasn't. The hinge pin had wiggled out), the vehicle's VBO was found taped to the backside of the inner door panel.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/Eagle82_VBOa.jpg

Edited: Had to rebuild the lock ultimately. The core and pins were good however the spring loaded dust cap had actually broken in two places and a key forced in so hard the spring had been jammed straight to the back of the core. The car came with replacement locks but the cores had to be swapped. Now I don't need to force the key in at a janky angle to unlock the drivers side, hurrah.

Wow, it came with a factory installed "scuff"!...I wonder how many aftermarket scuffs it has had installed since? :D

I think my 2018 Challenger was built in the same plant.

The thing is with forums, especially ones that aren't very busy, is that they get hit real bad with spam bots. Because they don't want to find a real solution to the problem, the admins just check the box that says all accounts need admin approval... and then they always forget to check if there's any new members pending. I wouldn't be too mad at them, they probably just don't check the thing very often.

I've spent the last four weeks trying to register. Different names, different emails....either they are too paranoid it's another spam account or god knows what but apparently they won't answer the door so screw them.:thumbsdn:

Which is just magical because I still have no idea how the Cruise Command actuator used to be installed in this car. It's the one thing in the service manual where there is absolutely nothing about it besides the wiring diagram. I don't even know what points on it attached to the Vacuum system and so far I have not found a photograph of it installed using Google.

Is it autozone??? or at least one of the parts places that has online manuals and schematics for most vehicles. Might be worth a shot.

No it's not an aftermarket cruise control system. It's the factory shipped option from AMC and is listed for a whole three pages in the mechanics manual. There's a speed transducer attached to the driveshaft, a control arm on the steering column, the regulator box under the dash, a brake light switch and of course the actuator.

http://amceaglesden.com/guide/images/2/24/Cruisecommand.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8176.jpg

I dismantled it to test the two solenoids, replace the vent filter and cleaned the potentiometer. Everything tests good and it will hold a vacuum so it's ready to be reinstalled. Normally the actuators for other cars I have seen have a rather long sleeved linkage but I did not find one with my bin of parts. The chain is however broken. Luckily the other side to it is hanging off the throttle linkage so I know where it used to connect.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/IMG_1675.jpg

But I can't find anything that resembles the mounting point for the actuator or for a bracket that I might be missing in proximity.
Then while I was around the carburetor I opened another can of worms.
I spotted the carb stepper motor was not only unplugged but the connector and been separated from the main wire harness and tie strapped to the side. While investigating that I found another connector which also at one point had SOMETHING plugged into it, but not anymore. Rummaging around through the bin found another solenoid valve with a matching plug and nearly identical wire color code but I cannot figure out what this used to be for.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8178.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8175.jpg

Then I found ANOTHER part that had come off the carb. The Sol-Vac valve (http://home.sprynet.com/~dale02/solvac.htm).

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8177.jpg
It and its two screws were in the bin of parts. The harness connector was nearby and the vacuum connection had been plugged. From what I am gathering about this little thing it works to counter Vapor lock problems which stem from design oversight (https://youtu.be/wGnMVijx5GE?t=170) and sounds like a great idea. Unfortunately the diaphragm is passing a vacuum through itself so the unit is bad and I have yet to locate another unit.
Basically I was starting to wonder if the ECU had been given the "Nutter Bypass" (what an awful name) that people talk about however portions of the procedure I could not locate and after some searching I located the ECU inside the cab under the passengers side foot area in seemingly great condition. It baffles me a little however that instead of gasketing and lidding the damn thing though they just potted it completely so it's impossible to service. Look at the thing. I can clearly see the casting marks for where the gasket and lid would go.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8180.jpg

I mean, I could still do this nutter thing but before I proceed with that it might be wise to first figure out what other changes have already been done.

Edited: The mysterious solenoid and bracket appears to line up with the bolt points on top of the aftermarket valve cover. If this is where it normally is than since my car does not have an Air Pump and thus no need for an upsream and return solenoid (note the two unused mount points on the bracket) then this should be the VsV for the Sol-Vac unit.

Edited: Thank you Autoweek.

https://autoweek.com/sites/default/files/styles/gen-1200-675/public/12-1980-amc-eagle-in-colorado-junkyard-photo-by-murilee-martin.jpg?itok=BRNIvs6r

Upper left corner next to the blower motor. You can just make out the cruise control actuator. So I guess while I can verify the mounting bracket is hiding in my bin of parts it seems the sleeve for the control cable is missing. Drat. :(
Good news is that the system is not built exclusively by AMC. It was also available as a kit from Dana. Apparently that kit was universal and everyone from GM to Volvo used part or all of the kit in their own vehicles (https://books.google.ca/books?id=uM8DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA125&lpg=PA125&dq=Dana+cruise+control&source=bl&ots=6Xlt9Scxgr&sig=e9BoHux5pJJlqCuFZ3HVWsX5L3Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiFmPGGvYfeAhVuwMQHHehGBEEQ6AEwEHoECAAQA Q#v=onepage&q=Dana%20cruise%20control&f=false).

https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/252856437089_/Nos-Dana-Perfect-Circle-Speedostat-Speed-Cruise-Control.jpg

Something just feels....right...about the idea of going to Woolco and buying a cruise control package off the shelf.

Typical among carbureted cars. The people working on them were in a firm mindset of 'fuck all this computer bullshit cuz I can't be bothered to understand it' and just destroy and disable what little engine control the car could've benefited from.

Anyhow, I see in the picture from autoweek, that the cruise control device is by the blower motor, but the one you're holding seems to have a cable no longer than 2 inches. If that's the case, yours would've been mounted real close to the carb, and likely not had a cable sleeve at all. Looking at the pic of the throttle lever with the broken ball chain, the actuator likely sits directly forward of it, as you only have maybe a 20 degree rotational tolerance of where it sits, since the actuator will need to pull in a straight line. You know what I mean?

In your book somewhere, there should be a vacuum diagram. Failing that, hopefully the vacuum routing sticker is still available under the hood of the car somewhere. Either will likely take a while to decipher, but should indicate the proper connection of the cruise actuator and that mystery solenoid.

Typically, though, for the cruise actuator, if should only take one vacuum line straight from manifold vacuum. Not quite sure why it has two ports, unless perhaps one is a takeoff for something else, or perhaps it goes to a vacuum reservoir. Not sure.

If you think there should be a sleeve over the chain that connects the cruise actuator to the throttle on the carb you might want to think again. The working factory installed cruise control on my Lincoln has no sleave just the chain linkage. Yours probably never had a sleave.

I doubt it had a sleeve either.

Madmen was right about the carb hookups. its rarer to find a carb with everything attached than with little attached. Im guilty of that myself as I dont want anything hooked to a carb that doesnt have to be there as it often affects performance.

By around 1985 the carbs had so much pollution crap hooked up to them that it was sucking a lot of power from the engine. Chryslers slant 6 was a perfect example. They quit making it (or it was one of the reasons) because it didnt have any power left after meeting EPA standards. At the same time Ford truck carbs were real crap and if you wanted your truck to run right you had to put an older carb on them, at least the smaller V8's. They were trying to eek out a little more mileage and complicated the heck out of them.

Unfortunately the British Columbia AirCare program was mothballed, not discontinued in 2014. Depending on where the next government goes we may restart the program to bail out the crown run insurance corporation. Under AirCare a car that shipped factory with an emissions control system must have it functioning or else you have two options: Fail the certification and not be able to get insurance or pay extra for a Classic Car Exemption/Collector plates (which restrict vehicle driving to 5000km per year). I have no choice but to repair it if possible, which so far may possibly just be a bad stepper motor. I have to investigate why it was unplugged.
It's clear that this car was worked on after AirCare was shutdown as we have these wiring changes and the catalytic converter has been removed. Coming from Langley there would of been no way to drive this car as-is during AirCare.

Basically I was starting to wonder if the ECU had been given the "Nutter Bypass" (what an awful name) that people talk about however portions of the procedure I could not locate and after some searching I located the ECU inside the cab under the passengers side foot area in seemingly great condition. It baffles me a little however that instead of gasketing and lidding the damn thing though they just potted it completely so it's impossible to service. Look at the thing. I can clearly see the casting marks for where the gasket and lid would go.
I'd prefer to call it the Bob Barker treatment.

Ugh, I hate it when something is potted in epoxy. I haven't been able to figure out a way to get through it, at least not without destroying what's inside.

Unfortunately the British Columbia AirCare program was mothballed, not discontinued in 2014. Depending on where the next government goes we may restart the program to bail out the crown run insurance corporation. Under AirCare a car that shipped factory with an emissions control system must have it functioning or else you have two options: Fail the certification and not be able to get insurance or pay extra for a Classic Car Exemption/Collector plates (which restrict vehicle driving to 5000km per year). I have no choice but to repair it if possible, which so far may possibly just be a bad stepper motor. I have to investigate why it was unplugged.
It's clear that this car was worked on after AirCare was shutdown as we have these wiring changes and the catalytic converter has been removed. Coming from Langley there would of been no way to drive this car as-is during AirCare.

OK, that explains why you are trying to hook up everything. Im glad I dont have vehicle inspections in my state but many states have them.

If you take some time to learn the systems and controls, it will all make sense. And contrary to popular opinion, all that 'emissions junk' on the engine barely hurts performance. Excepting, perhaps, EGR, but that's something most cars still have today. (The real affect of all that 'emissions junk' was way too many vacuum lines and components on the engine, making diagnostics a pain in the ass). What really bogs down these old cars is how the carbs are adjusted to minimize NOx and unburnt fuel in the exhaust. Makes them run pretty lean, and saps their power. Whereas a fuel injected motor can make adjustments in realtime, and easily compensates for it.

Chrysler came up with the 'Lean Burn' system as a work-around to making realtime adjustments to a carburetor. They found that if you run the mixture super lean, you can (mostly) compensate for it by having a super-variable ignition timing. It worked, but, like I said, nobody understood it, and decided to disable it. That, and in Chrysler's infinite wisdom, they put the Lean Burn computer right on top of the hot, vibrating engine. Guess how that turned out.

I'm curious now what the extent of the carb controls are on this car. It does have an O2 sensor...

The vacuum solenoid may be for the Idle up actuator which is the solenoid and vacuum item attached to the carburetor.

The electrical part is to set the idle, when you shut the car off it retracts, closes the throttle completely and prevents it from dieseling.

The vacuum part kicks in through the vacuum solenoid and idles it up whenever the compressor kicks in, ideally it's adjusted so the idle speed stays the same with the a/c on.

If you take some time to learn the systems and controls, it will all make sense. And contrary to popular opinion, all that 'emissions junk' on the engine barely hurts performance. Excepting, perhaps, EGR, but that's something most cars still have today. (The real affect of all that 'emissions junk' was way too many vacuum lines and components on the engine, making diagnostics a pain in the ass). What really bogs down these old cars is how the carbs are adjusted to minimize NOx and unburnt fuel in the exhaust. Makes them run pretty lean, and saps their power. Whereas a fuel injected motor can make adjustments in realtime, and easily compensates for it.


I'm curious now what the extent of the carb controls are on this car. It does have an O2 sensor...

My problem is that I've never really worked with a large carbureted engine before so everything being learned here is completely new. I am trying to separate the original facts from "I learned how to tweak the engine like this" stuff that developed over decades of being passed on so I can't tell what was really a performance killer because it genuinely was or it's said to be a performance killer because "those guys in suits tried to put a computer in my beloved AMC and say it will make things better" and other muscle car junk I'm really not interested in.
Also coming from people who work with old computers, christ some of these people suck at keeping splices clean and cabling organized.

As for the vacuum diagram, this one is pretty close to my engine. Just omit the P/Air solenoids.

http://www.n0kfb.org/homepage/amc/tech/83EagleVacDia.gif
On the electronics side, here's some details I pulled when I was researching the purpose of the diagnostic plugs when there should be no actual computer interface in a car this old. It's all just status outputs for the various solenoids, relays and sensors. Coming from my TBI Geo Tracker this type of simple ECU style is really easy to diagnose component faults because the sensors are not running a modern communications protocol and when all else fails, the ECU gives off blink codes and doesn't actually need specialty tools to test.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/Eagle_diag_15pin_82.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/Eagle_diag_6pin_82.jpg

The vacuum solenoid may be for the Idle up actuator which is the solenoid and vacuum item attached to the carburetor.
The electrical part is to set the idle, when you shut the car off it retracts, closes the throttle completely and prevents it from dieseling.
The vacuum part kicks in through the vacuum solenoid and idles it up whenever the compressor kicks in, ideally it's adjusted so the idle speed stays the same with the a/c on.

Yeah I linked to an article about its purpose in a later Jeep using the same carb. It's really not so much an emissions control component.
I did a very, very quick search on a hunch and the part sells under Carter and Mopar part numbers as well and is relatively cheap. (https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1981-1986-Jeep-CJ5-CJ7-Carburetor-Idle-Stop-Vacuum-Solenoid-83500342-213-245/181950315115?fits=Model%3ACJ7%7CMake%3AJeep&epid=2076956458&hash=item2a5d157a6b:g:CxoAAOSwcBhWYHiT)

According to the vac schematic, the cruise actuator is the thing on the center, absolute bottom, called 'VAC. SW. ASM.' Which at first made me think 'vacuum switch assembly,' but who knows what they were thinking - it was the '80s... and AMC. The giveaway, besides having two ports and a noted nearby vacuum reservoir, is that it indicates one port is for 'adapt' and the other for 'idle/decel.' Cruise control terms. That, and there's literally nothing else on the diagram that could be it, lol. Though tbh, I'd have no idea which port is which, without existing vacuum hoses in place. I would assume the bigger diameter would also be the one with the reservoir.

The diagnostic connector is fascinating. It's basically like a datastream that you can check with a test light. Does this car even have a check engine light to count code flashes? I wonder if any of those wires are serial data. Possibly for factory use. Old Fords are like that, the diagnostic connector has a connection to count the pulses with a test light, but then there's a type of serial data that is - quote - 'for assembly line use.' Of course, you can use a scanner to talk to it.

I'm gathering from the highlighted wires in the bottom schematic, that the oil pressure switch is responsible for turning on the choke heater (I think that's what the 'electric choke' is) and manifold heater relay. And the other one is the tachometer and coil feed. I'm really confused about the coil though, because it looks like it's only given positive when the starter relay is active O_o

Also, I have no idea what the hell the O2 sensor is for. Going by the outputs of the computer, the only realistic thing that it could do is enable the air injection system, which makes sense, it just seems like a waste of an O2 sensor and a computer input.

On that 2nd diagram, on the left, there's a 'stepper motor' - which to me, sounds like an Idle Air Control valve - and it's probably that thing on the side of the carb that was unplugged, and has a 6 pin plug. The one in the pic. What gets me is - why does the 'sol-vac' valve exist, if there's an IAC valve? I'd read up on what in the hell the stepper motor is for. Maybe it'll mention something. It'd be awesome if it could change the mixture of the carb in realtime... but I'm just dreamin' here. :P

You are correct. The cruise control takes a vacuum from a reserve canister and two solenoids in the actuator and the potentiometer control the throttle position. It's described in the magazine link I posted above. It's extremely simple.

The diagnostic plug was used partially for check-out at the factory however regular shop tools including meters and lights can be connected to read back the status of various components and was encouraged for mechanics to use unless you had something like a Sun Modular Engine Analyzer. Those are pretty, but supposedly even the 80's era units still cost thousands.
The ECU is too early to have a proper computer interface. Like most cars until the 90's if you want to read out the stored fault codes you gotta use the trouble light. It's pretty bulletproof but I do enjoy how in my Tracker I can at least get realtime engine data without the need for an expensive external system*.
For AMC's, this page tells you about how to DIY a diagnostic tool. (http://home.sprynet.com/~dale02/diagtool.htm)

The stepper motor is that thing I found on the back of the carb that was unplugged. It's just a variable position electronic actuator that pushes or pulls two pins in the carb body that control how rich or lean the engine runs. The various sensors seen in the schematic above, including the O2 sensor which is playing a critical role here, are used for the ECU to determine how to operate the stepper motor. The transmission shop mentioned the car was running rich so I suspect that the pins are currently set to run the car excessively rich, then it was unplugged to hold the pins in place.....or the stepper itself is seized and needs to be serviced. The stepper Motor assembly is illustrated as component 11 in the below blown up view of the Carter BBD.

http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0900c152/80/08/ac/2f/large/0900c1528008ac2f.gif


*Actually this used to be cheap but once Rhinoman over at Rhinopower Ltd. had the money get to his head he removed the free versions of his software, his DIY designs and locked down his $150 adapters so you were stuck with his garbage USB FTDI adapter. He keeps sending me DMCA notices for continuing to host the stuff he doesn't want you to see for free and telling him to jump in front of a train.

It's just a variable position electronic actuator that pushes or pulls two pins in the carb body that control how rich or lean the engine runs.

Holy shit, that is awesome! On paper, assuming everything is working properly, it should have almost comparable performance and emissions to an equivalent fuel injected engine. Well... you know, kind of... not really, but it's still awesome. I'll grant, I don't know a whole lot about old carburated cars, but I never knew that mixture adjustment was a thing, at least not on stock cars. And not on an AMC. That's pretty advanced tech for AMC back in the day.

And it's further reason why it's so upsetting to me when people disable these systems. That's literally something that's good and helpful! Good for fuel economy, the engine, AND the environment!

I think my plan after the car is on the road and I am positive the ECU is properly serviced I will throw the car on an old AirCare dyno to see that it says, then do the nutter bypass and try again. I am starting to now get curious exactly which way the emissions, performance and economy goes. According to the official documentation the ECU/ECM/CEC (I'm running out of things to call it but for all purposes I am referring to the emissions computer) keeps the air/fuel ratio at 14.7:1 with a physical either/or adjustment for high-altitude driving but no fine tuning outside of using a wideband O2 sensor and adjusting components not monitored by the computer, else it just tries to compensate for the changes.

My goal today was to inspect and test the stepper motor. It's held onto the BBD with four torx screws. The only warning is that while the pins are loosely retained by a plastic disc on the motor assembly there is a spring that can fall out and easily get lost. If it is not on the center pin in the photo below, make sure it's still hanging out of its recess in the carb body.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/IMG_1683.jpg

When the key is in and turned on the ECU will initialize the stepper motor by advancing the pins out to a full-closed position and then pulling them back. That is what happened on my unit so it's safe to say the ECU, the stepper motor wiring and the stepper motor are functioning. The motor is made up of two windings with taps at each end and in the middle. Refer to the wiring diagram on the last page. End-to-end resistance should be around 140-150 ohms with each half of a winding being half of the total value and no continuity to the exterior casting. The readings should be identical when comparing one winding to the other. It all tests good. :thmbsp:

I suppose the book must have a procedure for adjusting the carb... there must be a 'neutral' or 'test' mode, some method of setting the stepper motor to whatever position it's supposed to be in for making adjustments. Hell, it might be as simple as unplugging it while the ignition is off.

When on in open-loop there are several fixed positions the pins can be in depending on several on/off sensors. The manual states how to enable each mode for testing and that various carb adjustments can only be performed under certain ones. If you cannot reach the specified mode there's 20 pages of logic flowcharting to test each component in the CEC individually. I guess this is why people hate the BBD electronic carbs so much. If the emissions system is not working the adjustment instructions are useless and you are forced to fudge some things to get it close enough, or just do the nutter bypass and get another carb because computers are hard.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/cec_openloop.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/cec_6cyl_diagram.jpg

I think my major strength here is that I'm approaching this from the opposite direction. Whereas most skilled mechanics of this era vehicle (and most jeep people) really don't know much about electronic emission systems my background is early computer theory and digital electronics so this is all making total sense to me as opposed to how the carburetor in general works.

Again, I want to point out that the AMC repair manual is amazing. It's twice the thickness of your average Haynes manual and is pretty much identical to that of the average phonebook. It's like reading a tome.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8181.jpg

And this is why I despised working on computer controlled cars with carburetors.

nvm

nvm

I think my major strength here is that I'm approaching this from the opposite direction. Whereas most skilled mechanics of this era vehicle (and most jeep people) really don't know much about electronic emission systems my background is early computer theory and digital electronics so this is all making total sense to me as opposed to how the carburetor in general works.
I would be taking a similar approach. It's pretty safe to say my knowledge of those things isn't as extensive, but still.

Around '96 there was a new tenant in my old building who knew how to work on EFI, which I think ticked off the super who could fix just about anything else on a vehicle. However, the super serviced arcade machines regularly and often worked on TVs and other electronics, so go figure.

Finished cleaning and verifying some cabling and slapped the stepper back in for a test. Success. :banana:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_BOvlLOrP0

The car sounds WAY better now at idle and you can smell it's not running as rich. Still not perfect but I think that might just be the O2 sensor needs to be replaced.

Sweet!

O2 sensor, but also perhaps those vacuum switches. You might want to get a vacuum gauge and test those switches to see that they open/close at correct vacuum (or at all). Nice that it says right on the wiring diagram how much vacuum they switch at. Vacuum gauge is a good thing to have for a carburated car, anyway.

Great to see somebody fix one right instead of trashing ever little bit of emissions control. This is what made most 70's-80's vehicles so intimidating to me, that sea of vacuum lines and "doo-dads".

Dug through the parts bin and pulled out the screws, original hoses and check valve for the VsV and reinstalled everything back up to the Sol-Vac solenoid. Ran a vacuum check to see if the CeC was properly actuating the solenoid and then plugged the hose until the sol-vac is replaced.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8189.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8188.jpg

So that now leaves one last plugged vacuum line (which you can see above I taped shut because the rubber plug has cracked and was leaking) which I can only assume is for the cruise control. I went back into the bin again and was unable to locate the vacuum reservoir. I can only assume it was misplaced but at least replacements are easy to source. I did however find a length of vacuum line that was about two feet long and while it's not the original T-shaped bracket the cruise control kits came with there was a similar looking L-shaped metal bracket but it did not fit where we saw the one above pictured and the hose was not long enough to reach that side of the car. It had to of been located somewhere near the throttle linkage as Madman suggested. I had to step back and look at what I HAD and what I was MISSING.
Looking directly above the linkage is the firewall with a mouse chewed bulkhead seal. Next to it is a ground point....and another unsealed hole through the firewall.....Hmmmmm...

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8191.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8192.jpg

Aha! The bracket mounted here as an aftermarket/dealer installation! The other screw was in the parts bin.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8193.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/IMG_1765.jpg

Okay, so now the actuator is reinstalled where it should be, the linkage is where it should be (but needs to be replaced) and the vacuum hose routes to where a vacuum reservoir would of normally been, which is right next to the plugged vacuum line. So now we have all the vacuum lines and mysterious cabling figured out. :D

Ah ha! I love being right ^_^

That's a really janky looking bracket. I wonder if maybe this car had the cruise thing all the way over on the passenger side, and someone replaced it with this unit and made a bracket for it. Alternatively, it could just be that way from the factory/dealer. We are talking about the company that uses radioshack toggle switches on the dashboard.

Anyhow, just buy one of those ball chain connector thingies and put the two halves of the chain together. It's like a light chain, except the slightly larger diameter ball chain.

I'll just replace the entire ball chain with a new piece as it looks to be repaired once already.

I'm just more baffled by how inconsistent the service manual is on the cruise control. I can see in other google images the actuator has a vacuum reservoir but the Popular Mechanics article doesn't indicate one as part of the kit.
Likewise I was expecting the large diameter hose to be manifold vacuum. Wrong. It's the smaller diameter vacuum port. The larger diameter hose runs inside the car and to the brake release switch which until now I didn't completely recognize as having a vacuum port on it, since it's bolted to the brake pedal.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8195.jpg

Worse yet I still cannot tell if this was aftermarket or dealer. As mentioned the kit and AMC's package are the same thing. All the parts cross-reference even though for example AMC lists a different inline speed sensor while Dana and Popular Mechanics list what I have now which is a magnet strapped to the driveshaft while the speed transducer is bolted next to it.

Whatever. If it works it works.

The thing is with forums, especially ones that aren't very busy, is that they get hit real bad with spam bots. Because they don't want to find a real solution to the problem, the admins just check the box that says all accounts need admin approval... and then they always forget to check if there's any new members pending. I wouldn't be too mad at them, they probably just don't check the thing very often.

Two months of this crap and now I'm watching registrations get rejected within hours. I'm positive whoever is moderating registrations has their head completely up their ass.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/ffffs.png

I have not seen this kind of paranoia since I screwed with Flat Earth Society forums a decade ago.
If they don't take this last registration, get f****d EaglesDen.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/ffs.png




Ahem. Anyways.... :)
On a more positive note, the Cruise Control is now reinstalled completely. Those black gobs on the chain were actually bits of shrink tube someone was using to smooth the cable out where it passed through the opening for a second cable linkage. I replaced that with a hollow bolt for hanging a ceiling light. Replacement chain was $4 from The Home Depot.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8196.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8197.jpg

Two months of this crap and now I'm watching registrations get rejected within hours. I'm positive whoever is moderating registrations has their head completely up their ass.



I have not seen this kind of paranoia since I screwed with Flat Earth Society forums a decade ago.
If they don't take this last registration, get f****d EaglesDen.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/ffs.png

:lmao: :lmao: lmao:

You know it is possible that if one of your proposed usernames is similar to the one from your flat earth days there may be a flat-earther mod on the Beagle'sDen that remembers blocking your application.

And to think I was the only one who could grind an axe for that long....

If they don't take this last registration, get f****d EaglesDen.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/ffs.png
They had it coming.

Sheesh! This woulda been easier if it had a TBI.

Nice thing is you have all the technical info.

I've been fooling around with Bosch K-Jet on an old Peugeot, everything there relies on correct fuel pressure, and correctly routed vacuum lines :yes:

And the envelope, please...




***************************************
* *
* STUPIDEST CAR CHOICE OF 2018 *
* *
* *
* *
* *
* MIPS *
* *
* "Bought a 1982 AMC Eagle for $2000, *
* However needs $3500 Transmission rebuild" *
* *
* *
***************************************
The Prophecy was fulfilled. (https://youtu.be/HDJPypVooZE)
Well, I guess that writes off any personal expenses for the next six months. https://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-suicide.gif

The transmission was dropped and an inspection was performed. The fluid was found to be burned indeed while particles were found in the filter and the pump had failed. A used transmission is not available (that I already knew) so the only viable solution is to have this transmission torn down and completely rebuilt, which at the least comes with an 80000km warranty. Now that figure is worst-case. If they find components in the transmission are still good that cost will go down but this is still a costly mistake.

whoa, I have to catch up reading on this, but you should have a 998 or 904 in that right? and in some cases the 727 can be fit...rebuilt, $1000 oughta do it and the R&R aint that bad, about an hour each way if you are experienced

Also, why would you swear off automatic transmissions? Do you have ANY idea how much money it costs to rebuild a manual transmission? LOL you funny guy! Last manual transmission I rebuilt was maybe $4-5k, and MY prices are actually reasonable.

.
couple hundred on an M50d, a little less for an SROD, 3G for a vw M6...it all depends

couple hundred on an M50d, a little less for an SROD, 3G for a vw M6...it all depends

Dude, I'm a transmission mechanic, and even I don't know what you're talking about lol.

Also, he already had the trans rebuilt.

Dude, I'm a transmission mechanic, and even I don't know what you're talking about lol.

Also, he already had the trans rebuilt.

yes, I had 6 more pages of reading to do, but M5OD is a mazda built, ford used 5spd with overdrive from the 80s 90s etc, SROD is also a ford et al used 3spd + od used with many gearsets and many forms everywhere - ford, jeep etc and the VW trans is the 6spd they adopted in mid 00's what has to have the input bearings replaced from the inside and is a miserable biotch to work on. point is, the first 2 manuals, inout, output bearings, seals, bushings etc, excluding hard parts like gears are only a couple hundred in parts and a few hours of your life and most people can do them on their front porch while sipping mint juleps.

I hope that damn transmission never gives me another problem ever again, or in the next 80000km.

point is, the first 2 manuals, inout, output bearings, seals, bushings etc, excluding hard parts like gears are only a couple hundred in parts and a few hours of your life and most people can do them on their front porch while sipping mint juleps.

You misunderstand. I'm a legit transmission mechanic. I was trying to say that paying a proper mechanic to R&R and rebuild a manual transmission is an expensive thing nowadays. Parts may be only a couple hundred, but that's also true of automatic transmissions. It's really just a market thing, nobody rebuilds manual's anymore, so the going rate has gone way up.

Not to mention the fact that, no, MOST people could not, in fact, rebuild any transmission on their porch. At least, not if my imbecile customers are any indication of the average motorist's intelligence.

You misunderstand. I'm a legit transmission mechanic. I was trying to say that paying a proper mechanic to R&R and rebuild a manual transmission is an expensive thing nowadays. Parts may be only a couple hundred, but that's also true of automatic transmissions. It's really just a market thing, nobody rebuilds manual's anymore, so the going rate has gone way up.

Not to mention the fact that, no, MOST people could not, in fact, rebuild any transmission on their porch. At least, not if my imbecile customers are any indication of the average motorist's intelligence.
Now the cost of rebuilding manuals makes sense to me.

Just about anyone who drives the newest cars and can't turn a wrench--or even use their mirrors--is an imbecile. Any imbecile who can use a manual at all probably burns them up pretty fast.

Now the cost of rebuilding manuals makes sense to me.

Just about anyone who drives the newest cars and can't turn a wrench--or even use their mirrors--is an imbecile. Any imbecile who can use a manual at all probably burns them up pretty fast.

I had to have a clutch replaced once, but not a manual transmission. The pressure plate went bad, too much city driving. :thumbsdn:

I had to have a clutch replaced once, but not a manual transmission. The pressure plate went bad, too much city driving. :thumbsdn:
That's the only drawback to a manual in my opinion. I get bored easily with automatics so an occasional clutch replacement would be worth the tradeoff. I'd just learn to replace them myself, that's how I get almost everything else done.

Winter update.

Pretty much nothing happened because the Transmission bill was only paid in full as of two days ago so I could not purchase new tools and it got dry and really cold so working on the interior wasn't happening.
But it did snow last night, so even without jackstands it was a good time to see if the 4WD was REALLY stuck in the engaged position. The answer is no as it failed to climb the driveway. The Eagle is interesting because in the 82 model it went from AWD to full-time 4WD using the SlectDrive system which with one vacuum switch engages the transfer case and locks the front axle.

http://amceaglesden.com/guide/images/b/b4/81tsmwik06.jpg

The problem however is the actuators are also valves, so if one gets stuck the entire system fails. The front axle actuator hides under a skidplate and is a part of the axle assembly and has no manual control. You better hope it fails in the locked position. The Transfer Case actuator however is accessible through a hole in the transfer case skid plate and can be manually operated with a 9/16 spanner. When doing so however there was a hiss that came from somewhere along the route of the vacuum lines, so there is a leak somewhere, otherwise the front DID fail in the locked position and this morning was a joyful ride through the snow and unploughed streets, pointing and laughing at people in their Ford/GMC/Dodge trucks and SUV's who were spinning out or otherwise were stuck in six inches of snow. :D

Ah, the 80s...

Vacuum lines. Vacuum lines EVERYWHERE.

By accident I discovered what the actual name and part number is for the original AMC diagnostic unit I mentioned earlier in the thread.

CEC Fuel Feedback System Tester - Model ET-501 - Manufactured by the Owatonna Tool Company (More commonly know today as OTC)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CeC_Diag_module.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CeC_diag_module_PN.jpg

It's a small box with a VFD screen. Not pictured was the grey carrying case that held it, the documentation and about a half dozen other cables used to test the various other computers the Eagle/Concorde Jeep used. Of course at the same time the opinion on the use of these things is out there. Some people want $500CAD for the whole kit, others want $60USD for the module and nothing else, plus no shipping out of Buttstown, IL. There's forum threads talking about how it's a great tool while others don't even get to that point and tell you to rip that parasite off your carb before it saps any more life out of the engine. It's like listening to mac people. Some of the crap they spout is amazingly stupid.

I'm sure it has all the logic of a Speak 'n Spell.

There's forum threads talking about how it's a great tool while others don't even get to that point and tell you to rip that parasite off your carb before it saps any more life out of the engine. It's like listening to mac people. Some of the crap they spout is amazingly stupid.

LOL

Ah, ignorance. It only saps the life out of the engine if it's not working right!

I'm assuming the CEC tester is basically just a glorified datastream reader? I wonder if that means the 'data' plug on the car actually does have serial data, and not just a bunch of outputs. Anyhow, I'm sure it's hackable... only problem is, you don't have much of a way of knowing what any given piece of data actually is.

Nope. No data bus at all.
If there is any data bus it's exclusive to a tester that plugs directly into the CeC and evaluates standalone.

Anyways, the time has come to slosh the six month old gas out of the tank and get it insured for March. It badly needs a new battery and clamp. The current "Certified" brand unit is seven years old and fails every load test you can imagine. My problem however is the battery pan dimensions are weird.

To spec, the pan fits a 25.4 x 15.4 x 21cm battery. I cannot use the stock 330 Cranking Amp battery that you can still find at Wal-Mart or Canadian Tire because it likely will not have the umph to start the car in -25, or keep all the goodies I'm cramming into this car alive for any period of time with the engine off. Plus for $30 less I could get a battery with 800 Cranking Amps and 40% more reserve capacity.

Problem is all the replacement batteries I have found so far are 16.1cm wide. Lengthwise they all fit in the battery pan but the slightest amount of width prevents it from completely falling into the tray and being clamped down. What should I be doing about this?

Oh god, it uses a 56 battery. Never seen one. It looks similar to a Honda battery (51 or 51R), though just slightly bigger, but also shorter. Idk what kind of clamp setup you got. The problem you're having is that Honda batteries are abnormally skinny. My local Advance has a cheapie house brand 56 in stock, so it really should not be that hard for you to find one. Also, the specs on that one are: CCA: 550 / CA: 668.

You'd probably be able to fit a 51 or 51R (One has the terminal sides reversed) in your battery tray, but it has considerably less CCA. On the bright side, they should be readily available literally anywhere because so many Honda's use them.

Otherwise, modify the battery tray to fit a larger, more common battery. That's about all I can offer.

Photos for perspective.

Here is the battery tray. Facing the wheel well you have a chunk of metal that accepts the plastic foot of the battery. On the other side is a bolthole for the clamp that secures the other end down. The battery is further held in place with raised edges.

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8317.jpg

Now lets add a Group 124R battery.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8319.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8318.jpg

Again, length is perfect but you can't see it in the photo. It sits in the tray and cannot side back and fourth on hard braking or acceleration. The problem arises that it's oh-so-slightly too wide, so your options are either hook it into the back catch or hook into the clamp but it sits at an angle and not fully in the pan, nor is the bolt hole out far enough for me to still install the clamp and hope the battery doesn't care about sitting on an angle. A hard turn and you run the risk of it rolling out of the pan.

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8320.jpg

I'll keep poking at this. It's infuriating how annoyingly close this is.

Edited: as a reminder for why I'm needing such a larger battery than the car needs, remember the accessories I'm adding:

-Satellite radio*
-Minidisc head unit*
-Carphone
-MDT 9100 computer terminal*
-Onboard GPS
-300W AC power inverter*

*may be used for extended periods with the engine off

If however someone has a better idea for a battery rating and my solution of just throwing more amps at it is no good, I'm open to suggestions.

It would cut down on storage space, but how about mounting the battery in the rear? (cables probably not super cheap, though...maybe you only need to run the positive to the front)

They make universal battery trays, is replacing the battery tray an option?

Handful of goofy ideas:

Could you make an adapter tray? By that I mean a small tray that on the bottom fits securely in the stock tray and bolts/Lock into the stock tray, and on the top of the adapter has provisions to securely hold the battery you want to use.

Have you considered adding a super capacitor booster box? Some folks have replaced their car batteries with smaller super capacitor banks and have demonstrated that they hold starting charge for many days, work in winter, and can sustain some accessories for some time with engine off... I'm not sure I'd trust one for replacing the battery in normal use especially in Canada and under your circumstances....But what if it was used only as a starting reserve(along side a regular battery)? You could add a high current diode in series with one of the leads to the cap bank to make it such that the car can charge but NOT discharge the cap bank. You could then add a high current starter relay in parallel with the diode... you could wire that relay to the start position of the ignition (to give you a jump every start) or to some emergency jump switch.... I've actually considered this for my car.

I'm assuming in the last picture, you have the ass end of the battery sitting on top of the metal chunk that holds the 'foot' of the battery. If the battery tray is welded to the car, you could buy a universal battery tie down. Like this, (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=9099484&jsn=571) but the J-shaped bolts are sold separately with that one. You could drill 2 holes for the J bolts, and there you go. If it's not welded, get a universal battery tray.

Sitting at a slight angle is not a big deal. Not being held down is actually way more detrimental to a battery. I would be more concerned with the bottom of the battery sitting on the sharp metal edges of the battery tray for long periods of driving, it might cut into the bottom. Though they're usually pretty thick. If you wind up leaving it at a slight angle, I'd get a strip of wood, the thickness of the vertical walls of the battery tray, and maybe 3cm wide, just for the high side of the battery to sit on top of, so the sharp metal doesn't rub through the battery.

If you want a more redneck solution, get one of those little ratchet straps, hook one end to somewhere on the fender side, behind the battery, throw it over the top of the battery, hook the other end to somewhere below, and tighten it.

Is a 124R satisfactory for you? Or you still want more juice?

Like Bryan said, you could put the battery in the trunk... or you could keep the battery under the hood and ADD a battery in the trunk / rear / whatever. There are certain issues, but simply having a second battery should be fine. You can get a heavy gauge cable for the positive run to under the hood, which are a little costly. If you wanted to do it more properly, they have a switching device that will automatically switch the car's charging/load to either battery, depending on which needs it, while the car is running. Not sure what it's called.

Gentlemen! I present to you....

A booster seat. .3.

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8323.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8322.jpg

A sandwich of two sheets of plywood drops straight into the battery pan and raises it above the old flange and bracket. New brackets and flanging (with two inch long screws, so relax) hold the battery in place while the old clamp can still be used, albeit with a longer bolt.
It should be ready to go tomorrow once it's painted to keep the weather out of the wood and I buy a boot for the positive battery cable. :banana:

Is a 124R satisfactory for you? Or you still want more juice?
It should be more than plenty.

Now that's good thinking!

Nice adapter tray! Sometimes craftsmanship is the most satisfying solution.

I like it! I would...I once mounted an AMC radiator in my International pickup truck using 2x4's.

Well the car has now been officially on the road for a week and after swallowing the bill for the first full-tank fill ($86CAD for 70L of regular....) and driving it in both clear roads and snow using 4WD it's becoming apparent just how out of tune the entire engine is.
The ignition is off, the mechanical timing is off and the carb has very clearly had the idle jets mucked with. When it's -17 out the car is about impossible to start and no matter what you're up to it's running so rich you can stall and flood the car too easily. Methinks that when the computer was first bypassed and the car retuned it was much warmer. Now as I gather all the parts needed to be positive it's not cabling, vacuum lines or filters I need to ask what I should be adjusting first to get the car ready for a proper tune-up as I am assuming every adjustment is currently incorrect.

Where would I start?

To be honest, I don't work on carbureted cars often enough to know for sure. My suggestion is to make damn sure all the vacuum lines are routed correctly, and not leaking vacuum. In fact, make especially sure zero vacuum is leaking. This can be very difficult. Large vacuum leaks can be found with a can of flammable brake cleaner and a big pair of balls. Little leaks can be impossible, unless you put eyes and hands on every single thing that has vacuum to it, and even then, it's unreliable at best.

Me, I could just hook up a smoke machine to the intake and watch where the smoke escapes. And yeah, that would probably be MY first step. Second, I'd make sure the ignition timing is in spec. Need a timing light and a tachometer, which I think you have. Easy to get, if not. Which, btw, idle speed has to be set right before doing ignition timing. Ignition timing should probably also be double checked after everything else you do.

Valve timing is pretty unlikely to be off. Perhaps a little with an old, stretched chain. But a jumped chain is unlikely. Besides, you'd know. It'd probably run ok, but have very little power when driving, all the time, not just when cold.

The rest would be carburetor adjustment, which... I'm not sure about with the computerized carb. I'm sure your big fancy book will detail it well. I'd imagine there's some way of locking the computer in default mode, perhaps unplugging some sensor or such. And then likely turning a screw while watching a vacuum gauge. Hopefully. It might be more complicated.

Boy gas is expensive up there. I filled up my burban yesterday to the tune of 2.6$ a gal for midgrade.

Already ahead of you on the vacuum lines. New rubber line for all the vacuum routing and the fuel lines has been ordered. My initial work back in the beginning of winter found either cracked or deteriorated lines.

Carb adjustments are made by placing the computer in a set mode which locks the timing and lean/rich adjustment to a known static value, then it's the usual method of setting the idle adjustment, unless they've also tempered with the metering pins and jets, in which case it might be better to just rebuild the carb. :thumbsdn:

Yes, but are you *able* to put the computer in set mode? Or do you need the "scanner" for that?

If the jets have been messed with, you might have to have an actual carburetor shop rebuild the carb. They should have one of those devices that can actually measure the amount of gas being carbureted out of it. But idk.

Wouldn't be a bad idea to buy a rebuild kit for the carb, knock it down, get the whole thing surgically clean, and try again.

FWIW, and Madmen touched on it, vacuum leaks. Dont overlook that at any step. They have caused me too many problems to mention. Various gauges can be used to test it. Hand held pump type gauges test it well (brake type). Im sure many other ways with accuracy. It doesnt take much of a vacuum leak to really screw thing up, especially with engine idle.

Just for giggles, I looked on ebay for smoke machines...

LINK (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1311.R5.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xsm oke+machine+.TRS0&_nkw=smoke+machine+evap&_sacat=0)

And people are selling homemade ones. They're literally a paint can with a small electric heater in it. While I knew the concept was simple, I really didn't think people would be making them out of junk and selling them on ebay. So really, you could easily make your own, probably for real cheap.

I actually have one of those small smoke machines Wal-Mart sells during Halloween. I've been thinking of ways to make it practical to do smoke testing, otherwise I'm stuck with a vacuum gauge and testing various points with the engine running.
Speaking of vacuum leaks, all is not well in the valve cover. Before I change the air filter I inspected the PCV breather and again after a week on the road I've had oil burping out of the valve cover, up the breather hose, through the PCV breather filter and into the air cleaner, so there's no point changing the air filter yet.

http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0900c152/80/08/53/e4//small/0900c152800853e4.jpg

I tested the PCV valve and found it was behaving as it should and found a decent vacuum going through it and into the valve cover and sharing the same vacuum with the charcoal canister. What I did not find however was a vacuum at the air cleaner breather. It must be pulling a LOT of air from somewhere to defeat a 20 inHG vacuum and there was not a lot of indication of serious blow-by. There's an oil leak from the valve cover gasket above the manifolds, so we might have to first start there.

Yes you can set the computer into various open and closed loop modes manually. The mechanics handbook specifies how to jumper the diagnostic connectors to fool it into various states. Speaking of carb rebuilding, there was a partial rebuild kit that came with the car so indeed, there has been people inside the carb body. I know there's at least one shop in town within a stone's throw of my workplace who does rebuilds.

Eh, a lot of old cars get oil up the pcv hose. Hell, a lot of cars in general. There's a reason manufacturers stopped putting the pcv breather hose near the air filter - it just gets the filter all soggy (and leaves oil deposits on the throttle plate) - so most modern cars usually have the hose routed to the intake or some place down the line from the air filter. I think your car should probably have a little square of felt in the air cleaner, over the pcv hose place. To sop up the oil it squirts out. Not 100% sure though.

It does. It's a little orange plastic cartridge with a FRAM part number and packed with a wadding that is plugged into the side of the air cleaner.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRisJCJ7aSRieP2nEGHVNZaGIRZ2QEa8 bG-Ff6f9hTPHpA_7OxVEQ

It's completely filled with oil. I need to find new wadding to replace it. My aftermarket metal valve cover apparently lacks a baffle for the breather port to keep oil out, so I'm wondering if that is something I should install when I redo the gasket.

OUCH

So my first tank-to-empty calculation was done today when I started stalling down the hill to the highway. Good thing there's a gas station down there.

70L of gas, at $1.29CAD/L it cost $85.38 to fill the tank to full.
70L of gas with short highway driving, mainly city driving and hills everywhere in between lasted 9 days and allowed the car to travel 391km.

My math puts it at 15.75MPG at a cost of around 21 cents per kilometer.
Not.....great...but the Tracker was doing 21MPG when it was retired and the engine still needs a full tune-up, so there's likely improvements in those numbers once things are baselined and properly set. A bunch of that work starts tomorrow when the plugs, distributor rotor and cap, the cables and the smaller diameter vacuum lines are replaced followed by resetting of the ignition timing. This also gives me my first chance to liik into cylinder compression to verify if the source of my PCV issues are bad blow-by or something else. I have now verified there's 18 InHG present at the PCV valve but with the breather plugged I cannot get the crankcase to pull a vacuum below 1 InHG, which isn't enough to overcome the seemingly small amount of blow-by at unloaded revving that pushes the case pressure above 1PSI.

A replacement Sol-Vac solenoid has also been sourced and ordered. What I was not able to find however was a repalcement dashpot as mine is completely missing. The closest thing I could find was the Carter 202-462 (AMC 8127323) but it's listed for the 2BBL, not the 2BBD and I don't know what the difference is.


Edited: aaaaah drat. I tried to test fit my compression tester and the threads are not long enough to properly fit the 258 block. I can make it barely thread in with the O-ring removed but then the readings will be unusable due to a poor seal.

My math puts it at 15.75MPG at a cost of around 21 cents per kilometer.
Not.....great...

Well if you can't get it better and the novelty factor wears off you can do as good maybe better fuel economy with a Suburban, S10 based SUV, or the Trailblazer that replaced it...All were available with some type of 4WD as an option, and the suburban and Trailblazer extended body version can haul an absurd quantity of stuff INSIDE the vehicle (no more sony screens strapped to the roof to fight a death match with a sharp tarp, or driving with the back open in winter to haul a vending machine)...The GMC Envoy version of the trailblazer even had a special version of the extended cab body Envoy XUV where the cargo portion of the roof could open and a weather tight partition put up behind the back seat making it into something akin to a small crew cab pickup truck...My Suburban is so good in the snow that I can comfortably pass slow people in conditions that I'd BE one of the slow people in if I were in some other vehicles I've driven in winter.

but it's listed for the 2BBL, not the 2BBD and I don't know what the difference is.
I'm not a 100% sure, but I don't think the 'D' means anything. '2BBL' is a very typical - almost colloquial - 'abbreviation' that just refers to the carb having 2 'barrels' (jets). Unless the different 'abbreviation' is deliberate to mean having an electronic carb. My money's on '2BBD' being either a misspelling, or just a idiosyncrasy of AMC.

Also, as a piece of advice, don't go too far down the rabbit hole with your PCV issue. You might be on to something there, but it's always best to start with the simplest things (Occam's razor, anyone?) AND the more common failure points, like plugs, wires, etc, etc.

EDIT: so I did a little >research< (https://www.allpar.com/cars/adopted/carter.html) and apparently, BB is an actual abbreviation for 'Ball and Ball,' which are some people's surnames. So technically, BBD means Ball & Ball Dual barrel, as opposed to a Carter or Holley, or what have you. However, Carter bought out and made the BB design, so it's technically a style of Carter carburetor. However, it's still important to remember that '2BBL' IS a colloquialism that's used to refer to any 2 barrel carb, and it's not necessarily indicating that it's any particular brand or type of carb, other than that it has 2 barrels.

Also, also, you might want to thumb through Allpar and see what you can gleam about your Eagle.

I know my suggestion might be simplistic, but why not get a regular 2 barrel carb for this?

I had a '79 Toyota truck with a 20R 2.2L 4 banger that had a 2 barrel Aisin-Seiki carb with tons of emissions spaghetti on/around it. I got rid of it and put a Toyota specific Weber 32/36 DGEV 2BBL carb on it and it solved all my carb related issues. I did have to regulate the fuel pressure down to 3 psi though.

If a guy was really ambitious, he could maybe fit a RENIX fuel system off a Cherokee :scratch2:

Is the ignition system tied into the carburetor computer somehow?

...why? He'd still have to tune it.

Back when I had an old IH pickup powered by a 258 I did a lot of reading on the subject. Mine was (mostly) pre-emissions with a very simple Holley 1bbl. Many of the Jeep guys online talked about the hot ticket being a Motorcraft 2bbl, I think from the later 70's.

(See what I mean about the 'BBL' term being a colloquialism?)

New sol-vac came in. Woo, I have high idle again! :D

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Also did a parts inventory and it turns out that the heater core bypass I salvaged is not actually needed on my car. It's only needed on models with Air Conditioning and it's a VERY common failure point.
So it was a surprise when I found people pretty much throwing parts at me in exchange for the thing, simply because the diaphgram held a vacuum, so it's been refurbished.

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Also had the front hub actuator tested when the car was in for seals. They confirmed that it operates with relatively little vacuum, however the transfer case actuator still will not pull it into or out of 4WD. They were not being billed to service the 4WD so it looks like I'll be spending more time underneath testing all the vacuum lines for a leak.

That's cool that you got fast idle back :thmbsp:

Does this car have a dana 30/35 with a vacuum actuated center axle disconnect? I'm just curious.....

I hate those heater valves. Most of them are plastic nowadays, but even the old metal ones, all they EVER do is leak coolant. One of our customers is a limo company, I swear their one stretch limo must've gone through 20 of those damn things. On one of their party buses, it got to the point where we just bypassed the fucker in winter, and then blocked the hoses in summer.

It cooled off this week and I got fed up with the crap cabin heating so I spent today swearing in the rain as I drained the system, replaced all the hoses, flushed it several times because jesus christ it was pretty filthy and then reloaded it with 10L of new coolant.

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The system must of really badly needed a flush because the heater core works a hell of a lot better now and both the upper and lower radiator hoses were about to fail. I also located a leak in the radiator. The bottom of the upper radiator hose port has a hairline crack that needs to be brazed shut.

Also I'm STILL finding oil in the air cleaner. It's not the PCV. The contamination is staying isolated to the cavity between the filter and the carb inlet.

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It looks like the carb is just coughing it out. Either that, or it's coming from that little thing next to the carb hole.

your building up pressure in your engine and its shooting/sucking oil into your cleaner. Try putting a vented cap in place of the oil fill cap and see if that stops it. Im betting it will.

I once blew head gaskets out by not having a vented cap. It can happen. Your engine needs to breathe a little more. If you already have a vented cap I cant see then make sure it isnt plugged.

I once blew head gaskets out by not having a vented cap. It can happen.

How?

For whatever reason. I just found this thread. MY experience w/AMC cars goes back to 1974, when my dad bought me a stripper Gremlin w/the small 6-IIRC, it was a Vroom, Vroom motor w232 cubic inches.. About 6 months later I came home from school & there was a LOADED Gremlin X w/Levi's interior, flipper rear windows, A/C AM/FM, the whole 9 yards, along w/a 258 CID BIG Vrooom, Vroom mill.. The problem w/both of these cars was in their basically ABYSSIMAL build quality. In the snazzier one, the dashboard must have had no less than 378 pieces, which all 752 squeaked, beeped & rattled. The later car would routinely overheat if you ran it w/the AC, but the Levi's seats were pretty comfortable & wore well. The Driver's Door, the weld that held the window-top part- broke from the lower part of the door, & while it never came off, I was always worried about it, or just having it fall off going down the road. Gremlins weren't much longer in wheelbase length than they were wide, you could spin one easy peasy-And not even have to TRY hard. The back seat area was a sick joke, you could only sit back there if you had NO legs. You COULD fold the back seat down & it'd hold 2 kegs, which was all I cared about then... I hope AMC learnt a few lessons on build quality thru the years on yr Eagle..

your building up pressure in your engine and its shooting/sucking oil into your cleaner. Try putting a vented cap in place of the oil fill cap and see if that stops it. Im betting it will.


The Eagle uses a PCV breather system and cannot use a vented cap. That orange thing at the top of the photo is the inlet cleaner. It's a FRAM part but the element pulls out easily and and can be repacked with cushion foam.

https://oi11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8381.jpg

I was having major issues with oil coughing back up and into the filter and into the air cleaner but after I redid the valve cover seal it seemed to go away. The AMC Forum has recommended just replacing the old air cleaner element as at this point the oil is likely coming from the contaminated filter and not the PCV anymore. I just was not aware those filters could hold so much oil.

Anyways, today was Fuel and Oil day. New oil and filter, plus all the filters and rubber lines on the fuel system were replaced. The rigid lines were also bent back into shape as the previous owner apparently mangled them a little when he installed the aftermarket valve cover. Careful routing and maintenance of the fuel system is essential since the exhaust manifold directly below makes these cars notorious for fires.

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Note the silver marked vacuum lines. Those were scheduled to all be replaced today however I only got as far as the vacuum lines for the Air Cleaner before I had enough of the gas fumes. :drool:

For whatever reason. I just found this thread. MY experience w/AMC cars goes back to 1974, when my dad bought me a stripper Gremlin w/the small 6-IIRC, it was a Vroom, Vroom motor w232 cubic inches..


Did yer stripper give good lap dances? :D

She prolly would have, but the front seat wasn't very big, either, not enuf room for me & her both, dammittall... My Dad got it in Knoxville, it was bright Orange, w/a white hockey stick-like decal on the side-UT's colors. I found it rather revolting... The 2nd one, I gotta admit, even tho it was a total POS, I had a soft spot in my black heart for it.. In '76, I FINALLY got out of the Tinkertoy League, & talked my old man into a Olds Cutlass Supreme Brougham, which I kept thru college. In '79, I graduated, & my dad had Got Religion on Diesels, so he made mr trade the '76 on a '79 Cutlass 4.3 liter Diesel. But all that's another story for another time, & it DON'T end well...

Folks. I have officially gone into stupid territory with this car.
Last three weeks consisted of the rear end of the drivetrain being rebuilt due to suspicions about its condition and the possibility that I might not get parts later. I am now over $7000CAD into repairs on just the radiator and drivetrain on this car. Nothing else. This is all stuff that I should REALLY be doing at home due to half of that being labour charges but I simply do not stock a garage with tools for pulling gears, seals and bearings due to cost. At least we're done with it now. Everything else is regular garage work.
Anyways it was found that both rear drum brakes had cracked shoes, the rear passenger side bearing was starting to get iffy and the differential pinion bearing and race were junk.

https://oi11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/IMG_2962.jpg

I also got persuaded by my parents to have the radiator reassessed after the discovery of that leak during the flush. As it turned out the radiator failed testing due to the top tank coming loose. That was something I did not detect but man, that could of been bad. A re-core was $750 but a *new* exact replacement was $550, so I went for that.
Now I'm here dismantling and cleaning the switches for the power seats. Initially I thought that just a flush with iso and compressed air would help but it made it worse, so now they need to be removed, dismantled, cleaned and rebuilt.

https://oi11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/IMG_2979.jpg

The back seat area was a sick joke, you could only sit back there if you had NO legs.

That would've been ridiculous back in the day, but every new car nowadays is like that. AMC was really far ahead of the curve!

That would've been ridiculous back in the day, but every new car nowadays is like that. AMC was really far ahead of the curve!

Honda's are like that with the added bonus of seats as soft and plush as grannite... When I was a teen and the folks were between houses in FL and Wi we took many 2-3 day trips between the two, and let me tell ya if you want to see a kid get out of a car and walk like a half crippled octogenarian for 20 min give them 4+ hours in the back seat of a second gen CR-V!

Maybe I'm to harsh saying that you need to have no legs to sit in the back.... you could get leg room if the person in the seat in front of you had no legs/was really short and need the seat about as far forward as it would go to reach the peadals or rest their feet on the firewall.

Re-hose complete. Vacuum, emission, cooling and fuel lines have all been replaced. Swapped in new fuel filters, PCV and new hose clamps all around.

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The result is the engine has not been idling as rough at a warm stop anymore and the coolant flush and refill has burped the air from the heater core.

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/IMG_3121.jpg

..and yes if you spotted it, I doubled the hose clamps on the core because I screwed up twisting the old hoses off and kinked the ports on the core.... They straightened out okay but leaked a little, so they were double clamped because screw pulling the entire goddamn dash out to swap a core that's not leaking in the air box.

Edited: Also new speakers!

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I specifically hunted down speakers that would far better match the car than the aftermarket black Kickers in the front and a pair of trashed Audiovox cones in the back. These white 40W waterproof speakers were decently priced and had a grille that looked close to what one might expect. They were painted with a plastic bonding nutmeg spray paint.

And today the vacuum reservoir for the Cruise Command finally arrived. It does not have an internal check valve (I'll have to buy one) but with this final piece installed I plugged the Yellow Control Box in and now have Cruise Control just in time for the summer. :banana:

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Nice! The speakers look right at home.

This weekend consisted of testing the new impact sockets and dropping the tank for maintenance and cleaning.

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The mounting hardware is all in good enough shape to be reused and after the tank was drained and left int he sun to evaporate the last of the gas it was charged with carbon dioxide and then vacuumed out. The pickup sock looks like new.

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8454.jpg

The rollover check valve on the vapor line does not. Both stems have rusted off and it is not an easy to source a replacement, especially since the closest aftermarket valve is from Delorean. It had to be carefully dismantled, cleaned and new stems welded on before being sealed again.

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At least you're being cautious with the gas tank. It honestly doesn't matter how dry you get it, it can still catch fire easily.

Rollover check valve? Does it keep the tank from pissing gas out the vapor line if you end up upside down?

This is starting to look like a restoration project. great job! :thmbsp:

Yep, that's all it does. For some reason however a liquid rollover check valve was not a thing for the 82 model Eagle at least, but was for the Concord.
This completes the refurbishment of the entire cooling, vacuum, fuel and vapor control systems. The tank and mounting hardware will be reinstalled tomorrow once the rust paint dries.
At least you're being cautious with the gas tank. It honestly doesn't matter how dry you get it, it can still catch fire easily.
At a previous job we used to charge chemical barrels with nitrogen during empty storage and transportation to both inhibit corrosion and prevent a combustible atmosphere.

Very fine work! When I was younger, before I got congestive heart failure, I wanted to do something like what you've done. I wound up doing vintage radios. I could only wish...

New paint, new hoses and hey look, a rebuilt valve! Suddenly my tank pressure system works again.

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Carburetor rebuild is completed. It took about 11 hours and aside from a few instances where we had extra parts left over (for the NON-feedback model) there were no issues with the rebuild.

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https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/59DA3853.jpg

There WAS however problems found. The vacuum port for the PCV and canister purge was mostly plugged, the accelerator pump adjustment was incorrect, the choke pull-back actuator is leaking AND not adjusted correctly and to top it off, some beaner had the low and high idle screws installed in reverse. Once that was all set it was much happier.
Unfortunately the weekend fun ends there. With the vacuum, fuel and ignition systems now rebuilt it was safe to test the timing system and then reset the timing and THEN reset the idle speeds. There are two advance systems (distributor centrifugal and vacuum advance) and one retard system (computer operated). These were all tested separately with no issues found and then the timing was bumped down from the 22 degrees the previous owner set to 15 and as soon as we put in the low idle the missing stopped and the smell of gas left the tailpipe.

But it no longer revved or took a load without stalling or misfiring. IT seems that right when you are needing vacuum at the distributor vacuum advance, it falls off a cliff, so either there's a leak somewhere or worse......for some reason the timing is wrong.....somehow......It's been suggested the harmonic balancer has slipped.

Edited: Or it might just be a vacuum leak. The only thing between the distributor and the vacuum source is the Coolant Temperature Override switch (otherwise known as a Ported Vacuum switch. This dual-mode thingy disables the EGR when the engine is cold and runs the distributor off manifold vacuum for improved cold starting and driving. When the engine gets hot enough it activates the EGR and switches the vacuum advance to ported vacuum. While I don't know how entirely sealed it is supposed to be, something tells me if I plug all the ports and pull a vacuum on either the ported or manifold port I shouldn't lose my vacuum relatively quickly, else that's a vacuum that isn't reaching the distributor when the engine calls for it. I'll have to order a new one. Again, the CJ series used the same part so they are relatively inexpensive.

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/TVS_diagram.png

Nice work. Some vacuum valve thingies are intentionally vented, however it's usually fairly obvious by looking at it, and it would only vent the thing getting vacuum (say, the EGR) and not the vacuum source. However, I don't think this one is vented, because it's switching the vacuum source (right?). Anyhow, you could simply bypass the valve - since you know the vacuum path and all the functions of it - in order to see if it fixes the problem you're having.

That was basically my idea. If this is the cause of the timing advance issue when hot (and in ported vacuum mode) then bypassing it, setting the timing and then driving it while still hot should yield in a running engine. If it doesn't....that only leaves one thing left.

Finally found a #*$&@!? 1 1/4" wrench to replace that bastard CTO switch. God damn that thing is in an awful goddamn spot and requires removing a ton of vacuum lines, the fuel lines and the coolant temperature switch to finally reach it.

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/IMG_3757.jpg

While I was in there I also investigated the Coolant Temperature Switch itself. Unlike the 83 and later this is a three wire device that controls the computer and the manifold heater. In my case it read open on both outputs both hot and cold, meaning that the manifold heater didn't work and the computer never went into Closed Loop because it thinks the engine is still cold.

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CTS.jpg

While the two internal switches are adjustable, removing the calibration pins found they had both corroded up. This switch after three weeks of looking is unobtanium so it will have to be dismantled, cleaned and recalibrated.

Meanwhile I took advantage of the hot weather and drained coolant to remove the heater box and replace various foam gaskets that were buzzing or spraying foam everywhere every time I turned the heat on. In the process I discovered a leak in the heater core, so the car is gonna run for the next week or so without any air box at all because I'm not putting that thing back in, only to remove it next weekend. It's easy on the eagle, but still not enjoyable.

Unobtainium, indeed.

Isn't the 'intake manifold heater' that flimsy tube that comes up off the exhaust manifold to feed the air cleaner warm air when it's cold out? I never got those. It's like, let's use air from around the exhaust manifold when it's cold as balls outside, and the engine is cold, so we warm up the air charge to better carburate the gas. Except when the engine is cold, and it's cold as balls out, the exhaust manifolds are cold too, and won't warm up appreciably until the engine has been run a few minutes, but by that time, the engine is running already and warming up so what's the point?

What I'm getting at is that I don't think it's entirely necessary. If you find a 2 pin temp switch that fits the hole and switches at the correct temp, you could just forget about the manifold heater thing.

Nope, that's the heat stove. The idea there was that it warmed up the air cleaner and carburetor for improved cold running. The Thermal Air Cleaner switch uses a bimetallic diaphragm that opens once warm and simply drops a door over the inlet port once it's warmed up. The Manifold heater is an electric heater below the carburetor that helps the intake manifold warm up when cold, otherwise you run a risk of fuel droplets forming on the walls of the manifold. I ended up just rebuilding the whole thing. There's a how-to over at the Eagles Den forum.

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/CTS%20Rebuild/CGS_8910.jpg

And today's challenge: refoam the heater box!

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/IMG_3801.jpg
https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/IMG_3792.jpg

Okay, this was more the other part of the weekend, but things went so sideways I was not able to actually start cutting out the new foam bits until today. Initially I enjoyed how easily the dash moves out of the way and the hater box drops out but as soon as the core was removed it was apparent that small leaks were developing and that it might be a better idea to just replace the core now instead of a few years down the line. My options were one that Saturday afternoon locally for $170, or one from Rock Auto next Monday for $60 shipped. I chose the latter, so the car is all levels of dismantled as I wait for the core to arrive.
While I was doing that I decided to run a fluid check and found that there was fluid layering in the brake reservoir. I think what happened was that while the lid and the mechanics book says to use DOT3, at some point the car had its brake system flushed and refilled with DOT5. So when the car had the brakes done during the rear diff rebuild they topped it up as per book spec and it was just floating on the top layer.

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8923.jpg
https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8925.jpg

With the system now contaminated (which is VERY bad in this case as it can destroy everything) I had to pump out the reservoir (my hand vacuum pump comes with a nice kit for this so), fill it with new DOT3 and then bleed any remaining DOT 5 out of the master cylinder, lines and brake cylinders by bleeding each wheel and topping up the reservoir as new fluid was pumped in. :thumbsdn:

Ew dot5 sucks. Dot 3 or 4 are better, and more available. Plus, really? dot5 in a 1982? Come on. Anyway good thing you noticed.

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/IMG_3805.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NZyIHcWruWw/maxresdefault.jpg

A power passenger seat! Zipties holding the switches on?

Let me guess: it is much harder to install than remove.

A power passenger seat!
Wow, guess AMC really was loading them up with options!

For the last few years I've been noticing a Hornet Sportabout sitting in a driveway. The last time I rode by there it had sprouted a for sale sign. Ah, but the dear Mrs. dislikes wagons...

A power passenger seat! Zipties holding the switches on?

I've actually not yet inspected that. Supposedly there are two long screws which are in place that secure it to the metal frame of the seat. I'll check on that eventually that and repair it.

It's more frustrating that getting the thing requires lining up the oval defroster plenum port while not scraping the passenger door wall and dumping insulation into the box. Other than that it's a lot less painful than it looks. I got power seats but no Air conditioning, so I get heavy and slow moving seats but at least the dash comes out without a bunch of extra plumbing and a tray package.

Power seats?

LUXURY!

But no A/C and no power locks/windows. If AMC keeps this shit up, they'll be out of business. Oh wait...

The configuration for this car is odd. It has power seats, heated rear window, hitch kit and the two-tone horn but no AC, lower tray package, dual map light dome lamp, or either the naturally aspirated or air pump air injection system for emissions control.

The more I look at this car and AMC's history, the more I realize how painfully obvious they were hurting for money. Look at the photos near the beginning of the thread, now look at a '72 model Hornet wagon from a decade earlier.

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--ahkm3aD2--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/kdruhwcaxpxvbcwlpat9.jpg

There's a FEW trim upgrades but otherwise there was pretty much nothing spent on modernizing the frame and body.

There's a FEW trim upgrades but otherwise there was pretty much nothing spent on modernizing the frame and body.

Probably one of the few things Chrysler kept after acquiring AMC (besides Jeep) was all their engineers. Who had basically been in the business of cost-cutting the whole time they'd worked for AMC.

Today the last part of the feedback system was replaced. The O2 sensor.

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8928.jpg
This has almost certainly not been changed in a long, long time. It was completely dead and basically welded into the exhaust manifold. It had to be cut in half before a socket could be put over it and a lot of swearing, pulling and work with an impact driver could get it out. While installing the new sensor the harness side connector also broke off. I didn't have a replacement on hand so for now I crimped on a spade connector and glued the two halves together with RTV. In the future I'll come back and redo it properly once I find the proper replacement one-wire harness plug. The new sensor was reinstalled with a stainless steel plate stamped with the odometer reading and date of installation. In future I need to track down the emissions service light timer form a Jeep and install that.

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8927.jpg

With the O2 sensor now working the engine warmed up and settled down to a SOLID idle. No more surging and sputtering and I was able to finally set the 500RPM curb as before I could not go below 600 before it would stall at stops.

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8926.jpg

New problem though: during the carb rebuild we reset a number of adjustments to spec and this in turn nullified the factory set idle jet screw positioning, so the engine runs too lean. The above multimeter should read between .6 and .4v with an oscillation and constant stepper motor action. This will be another upcoming adjustment but otherwise all prerequisites required BEFORE you EVER touch the jet adjustments have been completed so it is now safe to perform this final tweak and not have any variables.

Edited: Wait no, there's one last variable. An exhaust leak can cause a lean condition. Right now the entire length from the manifold to the back is a bit of a disaster or clamps, welds and whistling. It might be advisable to fix that first before proceeding.

Edited: Wait no, there's one last variable. An exhaust leak can cause a lean condition. Right now the entire length from the manifold to the back is a bit of a disaster or clamps, welds and whistling. It might be advisable to fix that first before proceeding.

Only an exhaust leak up to, and only a little bit past the O2 sensor can cause the sensor to *read* lean. However, I will say that even a pinhole leak can throw off the O2 sensor reading, especially close to it. Also, that any significant exhaust leak will kill the engine power, strange as that sounds, you would normally think a leak would create less backpressure to hinder the engine, but it's kinda the other way around. A big enough leak will create a blockage with its own air currents.

Also, an analog meter might be better for reading the oscillating O2 sensor output, but obviously yours is quite a bit off. But there's also that thing where DVOMs don't necessarily read oscillating DC voltage that well.

Also also, I feel like I suggested replacing the O2 sensor before, but I can't be fucked to go back and look :P

Also also also, nobody ever replaces O2 sensors on pre-OBDII cars, because there's really no way that the driver would be informed of its failure.

I blew up the gas tank.

The EVAP system has been gradually repaired as when I got the car it didn't work at all and on Saturday I finally replaced the gas cap and the system pressurized normally again.
However in the past at some point after it had failed the tank had developed leaks and was patched with putty and now that everything was under pressure again it promptly began weeping fuel out around the patches. Tank rebuild is $450, but a new OEM tank is $155 plus shipping. Guess what I'm doing.

Tank rebuild is $450, but a new OEM tank is $155 plus shipping. Guess what I'm doing.

I wouldn't trust a 'rebuild' anyway. It's literally gonna be some drunk bastard taking a mig welder to it.

Here's the thing though (I mean obviously you need a new tank anyway, but) the tank really shouldn't BE under pressure. It should either be vented to atmosphere or under a slight vacuum. Granted, I'm not familiar with the evap system on that particular car - or older cars in general - but a pressurized gas tank is like a bomb, I can't really think of any practical reason for it to be under pressure at any point in time.

EVAP system on the eagle allows the tank to pressurize and forces vapor through a steel line to the charcoal canister up front. From there it's burned whenever ported vacuum is present (opens the purge valve during acceleration).
Well I guess with the tank out I can verify the vent line isn't restricted. I did check it before when I rebuilt the rollover check valve.

New tank went in...

...more problems came out. :/

When the fuel sending unit was removed and put in a safe place until the new tank came in, even though I was extremely gentle with it I discovered that something has shifted. These senders have two metal end stops for the full and empty states and in between you get a resistance between 30 and 230 or so. An empty tank will cause a high resistance but for some reason it now sticks at 160 ohms for an empty tank, which is about 1/4 tank on the needle. Curiously the full resistance has dropped to 3 ohms, so a full tank swings the needle past the F and pegs it. It's almost as if internally the slider has moved on its pivot rod, but neither AMC nor the internet implies this is adjustable.
Well the tank's full now. I'll have to take a look once the tank is pretty much emptied out again.

For those also asking about just buying a new one, there are none. :thumbsdn:

You wanted something unique and you got it. A K-car would have been so boring in comparison. :D

I think at this point a Reliant would of been more...reliable by this point?

It's possible you bent the float arm. Really weird symptom, anyhow, cuz generally, there is no more resistance... uh, travel? than it can have... if that makes any sense.

It turned out the plastic grommet in the sender assembly is cracked. It must of gotten nudged.

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_8954.jpg

The good news is that even though it split the pickup is still snug enough to be nudged back and then recalibrated (with a few frustrating misadjustments before getting it perfect), so I've been happily running with a happy tank and sender for the remainder of the summer.
In the meantime the headliner was dropped to begin with reupholstry, the console was reinstalled and the prewiring began for all the funky accessories.
The final thing that was performed before summer officially ended was to adjust the mixture screws. The carb rebuild left a lean running condition and we verified that all adjustments are still matching to the Carter spec, so now that we know the engine, exhaust, electrical, intake and the carburetor are in good order we can perform the adjustment and not need to worry about external variables.
The problem is that AMC's own documentation does not describe how to do the adjustment on an electronic feedback carburetor. In fact, it's as if the half a page of mixture screw adjustment procedures are not intended specifically for this car at all...
The internet is awash with different ways to do it (by vacuum, by ear....these people are crazy), but me and my mechanic determined the easiest way was:

-Turn the computer on while telling it the engine is cold. This centers the stepper motor and the metering pins. We don't want them trying to correct the mix while adjusting or you will be stuck rubberbanding your adjustments, so sticking them in the middle means we can make the adjustment and not have to bias too lean or rich to compensate.
-Turn the computer off and unplug the stepper motor
-Attach tachometer
-Start the car and let it come up to temp.
-Set the curb idle to spec
-Perform the mixture adjustment, as per spec. You will need two screwdrivers with marks drawn on them to ensure you are turning both screws at the same time and to the same positions.
-Complete adjustment by turning off engine, removing tachometer and reconnecting the stepper motor. It will re-initialize the next time you turn the car on
-Verify adjustment by installing plastic air cleaner cover (the how-to is in the book but it's basically a piece of plexiglass over the top of the air cleaner), starting the car, letting the car enter closed loop and ensure the metering pins oscillate back and fourth within their range
-Optional: Probe the signal wire for the O2 sensor and attach either a Digital Multimeter or an oscilloscope. If the mixture adjustment is correct the voltage should swing between 0.8 and 0.1v with no prolonged time on either end of the waveform (due to still running still too lean or too rich)
The great thing about the electronic feedback is that precise mixture screw adjustment isn't necessary. Just get it in the ballpark and it will do the rest.

So everything under the hood is now done after a year of work, it's getting 24 highway and 17 city in 2WD and the interior is coming together. Next year is gonna be all about suspension and bushings and it badly needs all of that.

Urethane bushings?

it's getting 24 highway and 17 city in 2WD
Impressive!

The coolant switch failed again. I noticed as the mercury dropped the car would stall at a rolling stop or idling at a light.

I ended up purchasing one of the official AMC testers for the feedback systems. It's nothing special other than it reduces an hour or two of testing down to about a minute. I really don't need it but I couldn't resist the bragging rights.

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_9220.jpg

It immediately hung up waiting for the car to warm up. I waited until the engine was clearly hot enough to open the thermostat and then checked the CTS from the diagnostic port. It was open and forcing the car to stay open-loop. When I went to disconnect the harness to test at the switch itself it separated into two pieces.
When I rebuilt it back in June I used JB Weld. While it should be able to handle the heat of a wet manifold it was now a brown color and crumbled. I reached out to a connection and bought another one that was used, but supposedly good from a junked rust bucket. Unfortunately it to seems to have an internal corrosion issue. I'll swap them out for now and rebuild the rebuilt one again but use a high temperature rated epoxy.

Neat!

But hey, there's something very important that you may not know yet: CONNECT THE BATT LEADS FIRST!

Ya know it would be funny if your thread got more traffic than the eagles nest because your doing a better job than them...:D

I did the writeup on rebuilding this exact switch there, only to discover you can't see it unless you are a registered member, so it won't get cached and indexed by Google.
Videokarma, thank you for the most part for not hiding chunks of your forum behind a registration wall.

I did the writeup on rebuilding this exact switch there, only to discover you can't see it unless you are a registered member, so it won't get cached and indexed by Google.
Videokarma, thank you for the most part for not hiding chunks of your forum behind a registration wall.

You mean they actually let a non-flat earther in....Wow! :D

People sure were not wrong when they said the 258's valve cover is impossible to keep oiltight. It started weeping through at the back last spring but then three weeks ago I started noticing oil dripping down from the skidplate. An inspection found the valve cover was leaking towards the front and today I noticed that the gasket split above spark plug #1.

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_9231.jpg

From there I can't tell if it's related or unrelated but oil is starting to appear around the harmonic balancer. If a new valve cover gasket makes that stop then I'll ignore it until I degrease the engine again but it it stays I'll have to pull the balancer off and service the front oil seal, the timing chain cover and what the hell, lets also replace the timing chain as well since we are 265000km into its life probably.

On the inside I finally got around to fabricating the mount for the Car Phone. The metal frame under the dash and above the ashtray already has a bolthole so I grabbed the most rigid piece of steel I could find and bent that into shape with a bolt welded to the end.

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_9233.jpg

Is that a cork gasket on the valve cover? Cork gaskets are shit. Buy a FelPro rubber gasket, like one of the nice ones. I forget what they call them. It's like a problem solver or something like that. Molded rubber, not just die cut. PermaDry! That's what they're called.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/fel-pro,VS50522T,valve+cover+gasket,10710

Not 100% sure that'll fit. Says 86+

Rubber gaskets seem to be discontinued according to Lordco, plus they are not recommended if you have the plastic valve cover still. (but I don't have that, so we're all good! :thmbsp: )
There's a bunch of different methods to seal the valve cover and most use a lot of RTV. I could only imagine how much nicer it would be if there was an aftermarket silicone compression gasket.

My Fel-Pro gasket is the VS 50244 and it's about $40. It's different from the one you suggested in that one side of the cover only uses three bolts and less ribbing.

My Fel-Pro gasket is the VS 50244 and it's about $40. It's different from the one you suggested in that one side of the cover only uses three bolts and less ribbing.

I'm getting mixed signals. Can't tell if that's a cork gasket or molded rubber. PermaDry would be ideal. $40 for a cork gasket is a joke. That better be a molded rubber, in which case, it's worth $40, even if it's not PermaDry. The only other thing I could recommend is to clean the mating surfaces until they are immaculate, and use only RTV with NO gasket. And it'll work. Bead size depends on whether the valve cover has an indentation for the gasket or not. If not, a 1/8" bead is more than enough.

However, it's a very long area, and it's an iron head and aluminum cover, so even the silicone will scrub through eventually. Maybe soon. Not sure.

I'm going to try an all-rubber gasket and see what happens as it was $20. the plans next summer is to take the head off and decarbonize things while inspecting what we have for wear on the lifters, pushrods, valves and replacing a few seals. We're also going to do the timing chain at the same time. If the gasket fails again we'll go with what you got.

Meanwhile I've developed pretty serious camber issues on both front wheels, so I'm going to load the parts canon up and go in for a mass-changeout.

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/asdgfasdgfsda.png
(not seen is another $120 in shocks)

Bushings, new shocks all around, new control rods, replacement coil spring and all that fun jazz. I'm not going to torture myself with the alignment so I'll likely get all the parts together, pull up at the shop across from where I work with all the bits in the trunk and say "Make it Good".

Went in for a front-end alignment and got the call not long after that both front wheel bearings are spanked. Not entirely surprising because the rears were pretty rough before they got changed in June but ugghhhhhhh.... :drool:

The bearings are pressed one-piece hub assemblies. That I can tell they are not available anymore, so you have to find a shop to press the hubs apart and repack them.

Went in for a front-end alignment and got the call not long after that both front wheel bearings are spanked. Not entirely surprising because the rears were pretty rough before they got changed in June but ugghhhhhhh.... :drool:

The bearings are pressed one-piece hub assemblies. That I can tell they are not available anymore, so you have to find a shop to press the hubs apart and repack them.

I just hope your wheel bearings last longer than mine. The first one I changed on my suburban lasted LESS than 30k miles from installation to the built in abs sensor nuisance tripping the abs any time the breaks were applied and wheel speed dropped below 7mph....the frustrating part is O'Reilly only warranties the bearing for 1 year so I have to eat the cost to replace it early.

Anti-Lock brakes? What is that? ;)

http://amceaglesden.com/guide/images/6/6a/Frontbearingfigure2.jpg

Edited: For as much as I don't want to pay a shop to do this, bearings suck and the shop has panned me a good price that's under $600 installed and aligned and I'm not going to wait any longer to change them if it's throwing the alignment out.

That's a reasonable price. Honestly in the picture the hub bearing looks like a GM hub bearing to me. I'd be surprised if it wasn't, knowing AMC. Weird that they show the bearing in pieces. Maybe it was originally, but was redesigned to be a module. idk.

Apparently between 1981 and 1982 AMC apparently changed the hub design and it went from a non-serviceable to a pressed assembly. In a way that was great because when production of the preassembled hubs ended you could still reuse them by pressing them apart and repacking them. The procedure is listed below.

http://amceaglesden.com/guide/Front_Wheel_Bearings

Thanks to this car I've started to realize I need to upgrade from a toolbox to a tool chest. :D

So spring is coming around and I'm finally getting more time under the car to start replacing the consumables but over the winter I've run into a few issues sourcing parts.

I use the lower control arm that does not use the Dana press-in balljoint. Instead it's an easier to replace bolt-in, but while I can find the upper balljoints and the Dana lowers, I cannot source the bolt-in lower balljoints. Even Dorman has them on backorder until demand increases. I guess it however is not as bad as the spring seat bushings. Those are all chewed up and need to be replaced but surprise, those are also currently unavailable as well and boy, I sure live having to remove coil springs more than I have to.
I am aware that NOS parts are available however being booted or rubber products it would be unwise to replace a part with another that's already 20 years old.

Otherwise, the valve cover gasket got to be changed in the dead of winter which was just as fun but hey, oil consumption has stopped. Likewise the rebuilt coolant switch failed AGAIN. It didn't electrically fail or come apart but I can see oil weeping around the epoxied rim. JB Weld simply cannot handle the thermal cycling and I can't think of any other adhesive that is heat, chemical, vibration and oil resistant, so I fabricated a metal bracket which clips around the entire assembly and harness plug and presses it together.

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/IMG_0746s.jpg
https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/IMG_0754s.jpg

This has allowed the switch to stay together and keep the assembly sealed. I ran a feedback performance test last weekend and it passed. :thmbsp:

Nice. Pity about the ball joints. There may yet be some other car that used those, and has different part numbers.

Someone has one for sale 10 miles from me, advertised as needing front suspension work "some new parts included". Guess these problems aren't that uncommon. I like the creativity of the switch bracket. I've had to do similar things from time to time. There's always a way!

Front suspension on the Eagle is famously a trouble point for the car.
Because of how the unibody goes around the lower control arm you have a hard to clean out cavity which can fill with road dirt and salt and will initiate a cancerous rust which can ultimately cause the supporting body structure around the engine mounts and shock towers to fail. It's a very common place for Eagles to fail DOT inspections and is extremely expensive to get repaired and certified.

BC being for the most part salt-free means the rust is JUST starting to develop after almost 40 years. I have to take it in later this summer to have it evaluated and repaired.

Spotted this on Episode 6 of Better Call Saul.
It was a flashback scene.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=200519&stc=1&d=1585165307

So a simple day of removing a broken coil spring, replacing a balljoint and replacing two upper control arm bushings went well until I was completely defeated by the most BS thing I've seen yet out of an automotive tool.

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_9463.jpg

https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/New%20Bucket/CGS_9464.jpg

Eagles like a lot of AMC's require that the coilspring be compressed from the inside.. This is possible by unbolting and removing the shock absorber and the tool just drops in through the tower. Most AMC's also used a coil spring that is six inches in diameter. Sounds about right.

The maximum diameter for most inner compression tools? 5 5/8" :gigglemad
What the hell is this s*#&? I don't even know where to FIND a tool that's 3/8" wider. Why is that a thing at all?? Now I have to kludge a block of wood under the control arm and limp the car to a shop.

This may sound stupid but do you have a torch and a pair or vice grips or heavy duty pliers? I would be tempted to heat the the tool till the metal softens a bit and bend each end 3/16 out to fit... depending on how hard the steel is you may also be able to bench clamp to tool and Hammer or pry the ends out.... atleast if it is your tool and not a rental...If it is a rental and you decide to bend it we won't tell...

The tool after credits and customer discounts is $130. I don't feel compelled to ruin the annealing unless I'm forced to.

Depending on the design of the suspension, sometimes I am able to put the spring in and finagle it without it being compressed. Alternatively, you could buy two sets of those spring-shorteners that people use to lower their cars, and use those to squeeze it. Not as safe, obviously.

I ended up buying a different compression tool that is purpose built for the spring seats on later model AMC vehicles and it came to cost less than the previous tool. All good there.

So the engine is getting the head pulled in two weeks. I'm tackling the lifter tap before it destroys the camshaft. Also taking the chance to clean the carbon out and get the head looked over at a shop before the seals are renewed and it's buttoned back up. I've been still salvaging parts off another pair of Eagles so I now have a very extensive amount of parts, including a spare head, transmission and transfer case which I need top crate up and slide under the bench....just in case.
I also realized I am now in a position where if I wanted to I can add air conditioning. It does mean I'll be forced to install the tray package but by this point the salvage car was so pulled apart the air boxes, hoses, compressor and vacuum routing was pretty easy to remove. The condenser was beyond the point of salvaging as the fins are coming apart like an accordion but that's been a shared part for over a decade so spares are easy to find. Thing is, do I want to go through pulling the dash apart to install the new system?

Thing is, do I want to go through pulling the dash apart to install the new system?
I don't know, have you been sweating your balls off like I have this summer?

It would make for a much more comfortable ride, yes. :scratch2:

Guess what's happening this week???? :D

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/a166/ballsandy/CGS_9946.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ballsandy/a/1a5de693-3e31-4771-bb04-eae7a718980a/p/d98aa3ff-cdb2-424a-813a-d6de3a50431a)
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/a166/ballsandy/CGS_9945.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ballsandy/a/1a5de693-3e31-4771-bb04-eae7a718980a/p/81398986-438e-4a6f-97cf-0466d73de3ca)

I'm fed up with the lifter tap and my water pump decided to start warning me of impending failure so I gathered my parts together and going to town.

-Replace lifters
-Replace head with a rebuilt 4.2L
-Replace water pump
-Replace thermostat
-Replace timing chain and sprockets
-Clean up the manifolds
-Replace fuel pump
-Change the coolant
-Change the oil (because it's going to be dirty after this)

As it turned out I was not planning on a head replacement but got pushed into sending my spare to the shop last week to be rebuilt anyways. As the old head was unbolted it pried itself up which was a sure-sign the head's warped, so I'm happy that actually turned out okay.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/a166/ballsandy/CGS_9949.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ballsandy/a/1a5de693-3e31-4771-bb04-eae7a718980a/p/472d8f01-bb4f-40c2-8b54-659fabc39527)
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https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/a166/ballsandy/CGS_9947.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ballsandy/a/1a5de693-3e31-4771-bb04-eae7a718980a/p/797bb933-86f7-45b0-a111-855175691e9c)

The cylinders have a lot of carbon buildup. I was able to get most of it off using WD-60 and a wire wheel at TDC but there's still some deposits I wasn't able to get off, so it will soak overnight.
The fuel pump was not palnned but when they start weeping form the vent it's only $15 for another one. The chain on the other hand was not planned. The recommendation was since I don't know when it was last done and pretty much everything is pulled out of the front of the car it's a REALLY good and convenient time to do so. That's another $50 in parts but DAMN that damper bolt is tight. With the head removed I can't use the rope trick to pop it off and an impact driver can't make the fit so yaay.

Block the flywheel by jamming a screwdriver into the gear teeth. Might need an assistant to do that while you put a big bar on the crankshaft pulley bolt. Alternatively, remove the radiator to fit an air gun in there. Can't tell if you have already. If I'm desperate, I'd use one of those chain wrench things. It'll chew up the pulley a bit, but with it out, you can file off the nicks.

Run the wire brush over the cylinder block deck to remove all that crud in prep for the new head gasket. Don't use anything else like surface blending discs (cookies).

Don't stress about the carbon on the top of the pistons. Not really a big deal. (Carbon in the rings is more concerning, but you're doing enough work right now lol)

How do the cylinder bores look?

I went a bit further than that and because I have the TSM there's a note from AMC that if you can't torque the bolt without the crankshaft turning you can fabricate a tool that stops it from turning by holding it against the body/ground.
The spec is only 80 foot pounds, so nothing says that a modified tool can't be made that lets me do it both ways.

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https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/a166/ballsandy/CGS_9954.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ballsandy/a/1a5de693-3e31-4771-bb04-eae7a718980a/p/5ac59f5a-7d75-4d91-aed8-367d6cb63794)
This is an approved method. :thmbsp:

Because the water pump was coming out I pulled the radiator as well and had to clean it up a bit. As the bearing drifted there was a radial mark on the fins where the fan was juuust starting to clip it and I wanted to flush and repaint the damaged area. Likewise I'm already ahead of you with the wire brush but man I should of dressed the area more because WD-40 and a brush attachment paints everything with black gunk. I left the old lifters in for now so that any crud that falls into the galleries can be vacuumed out instead of making its way deeper into the block but carbon removal was also why I am in here because there was a LOT seen on the borescope. Cylinders otherwise look okay but I'm having a hard time seeing the crosshatch, though at this point if we have to go deeper, forget it I'll probably just get the whole block rebuilt.

Wow, been a while since I last saw one of these...I'm surprised you're able to get a rebuilt 258 head, it wasn't that long ago that parts for AMC engines were barely even being made at all.

The Jeep guys still need blocks so there's a lot of cores out there and the parts are dirt cheap. $40 water pumps and $25 fuel pumps kind of cheap. Heads on the other hand are a challenge because they all want the later 4.0L and I want to stick with the inferior 4.2L. I grabbed a spare off an '84 eagle being scrapped and that turned out to be the game saver here.

Is the 258 really as much of a dog as it seems? I heard it only made like...112 horsepower, which is rather laughable for such a large engine, though still better than the utterly hopeless Ford 250 six.

I briefly had an Eagle that I bought to fix up, but ended up reselling it. It didn't run too bad, but it was a 5 speed.

Those old straight sixes didn't have a lot of HP, but they had great low to midrange torque.

I had an '83 Dodge 1/2 ton pickup with the 225 slant 6 and automatic. It ran better than I thought it would, and I even towed a couple vehicles with it. It struggled towing through the steep mountains, but it just wouldn't give up.

American domestic cars having large displacement engines with no horsepower to them was really just a thing until it actually mattered in the early 80's. Before the energy crisis and emissions regulations there was technically nothing wrong with building engines that way because most people were not going fast and gas stations were on every other street corner with prices below 10 cents a liter.
Allow me to use RegularCars for a moment to get the point across with a 72 Ambassador with an EVEN BIGGER engine which displaces another liter and a half in exchange for 60 more horsepower. https://youtu.be/NLBHDjlpm1A?t=112

That all changed in the 70's when North American automakers were getting thrashed by imports with smaller engines with equal or greater horsepower at higher economy and better combustion. For a solid 10 years a lot of blocks were retooled to still remain pretty much the same process but mechanically crippled or factory tuned to be as efficient as they could be at the expensive of EVEN MORE horsepower. The 258 for example is anemic with a dual barrel carburetor and a reverse flow head. Not enough air can get through the carb and the ports are not big enough to move exhaust gases out fast enough.

And yet, somehow still less anemic than the utterly miserable Ford 250 six of this era, which had an integrated head and manifold and made an utterly depressing 88 horsepower, making it the slowest of an already slow class of engines (Chrysler Slant Six, Chevy 250, Ford 250, AMC 258). What a horrible engine that Ford "Thriftpower" six was.

Well okay, the Chevy 250 also had an integrated head and manifold at that time but it still made almost 20 more horsepower (105 horsepower in 1979) because the Ford 250 was just that terrible!

Eh, massive American engines were not really a result of laziness or however you want to describe it. It was a result of a lust for power, and their inefficiency and lack of power was a result of government emissions regulations.

Also, it's important to note that these engines were low-revving, which necessarily meant they had little horsepower. But horses aren't really a big deal, it's torque that really matters, and they still had plenty of that. And emissions regulations really began in 1975 (I think) when catalytic converters became legally required. Before that, those big American engines that we now consider 'weak' were often making hundreds of horsepower, sometimes 1 per cubic inch. They were made weak to meet emissions standards.

The thing about little foreign cars dominating the market was two-fold. One, yes they had small engines, but they were much smaller and MUCH lighter. Where a normal American full-size car would be around 4000lbs, a VW Beetle was literally less than half of that. So a small engine, despite being very weak compared to a big American engine, even one bogged down with emissions crap, could easily handle a much lighter vehicle. And it would be doing literally half the work, so better gas mileage. The other part of the story is that back in those days, many of the much smaller displacement engines were not required by the American government to even have emissions controls. No catalytic, no EGR, basically nothing. They were largely exempt from all the things that made the big engines weak and inefficient. So the concept that the little foreign engines were so much better than the big American engines is really a myth. The little foreigners were literally playing the game with a different set of rules.

Granted, little foreign cars appearing on the open market drove competition, even if the big three were slow to adapt, it did happen. (Unfortunately that's kind of led to all new cars being the same crap.)

"Before that, those big American engines that we now consider 'weak' were often making hundreds of horsepower, sometimes 1 per cubic inch. They were made weak to meet emissions standards."

I think it was Super Chevy that dyno'd a prestine version of the supposed "monster '70 Chevelle LS what that everyone brags about how it made more horsepower than GM would admit to.

288 HP at the rear.

That's barely an entry level high HP car these days.

What "killed" horsepower ratings in the 70's was the feds clamped down on car makers basically advertising whatever number they wanted. It was the same thing they did with stereo equipment. Then you added emissons regulations later on, which the big three figured if they moaned enough, it'd go away. It didn't, and the Japanese ate their lunch.

"Before that, those big American engines that we now consider 'weak' were often making hundreds of horsepower, sometimes 1 per cubic inch. They were made weak to meet emissions standards."

I think it was Super Chevy that dyno'd a prestine version of the supposed "monster '70 Chevelle LS what that everyone brags about how it made more horsepower than GM would admit to.

288 HP at the rear.

That's barely an entry level high HP car these days.

What "killed" horsepower ratings in the 70's was the feds clamped down on car makers basically advertising whatever number they wanted. It was the same thing they did with stereo equipment. Then you added emissons regulations later on, which the big three figured if they moaned enough, it'd go away. It didn't, and the Japanese ate their lunch.
They didn't advertise whatever they wanted they changed from advertising Gross HP to Net HP (or the other way around).... basically they were testing flywheel HP with NONE of the power robing accessories attached then switched to measuring with them attached to give a better idea of what would make it to the wheels...Also by the 70s the insurance companies had made it their mission from God to charge muscle car owners up the wall so that hurt muscle car sales and the makers actually started advertising HP lower than actual so owners could get cheaper insurance....

The automotive world would be a vastly better place if government had kept it's damn nose out and let the market drive the industry the right direction.

Heh I didn't even know there was a Ford 250ci I-6, and at 88 HP that is abysmal. I think the 223 in my '59 custom has more than that, It allegedly has 140hp (at a pretty high rpm) but I have a hard time believing that.

Take an I6 and put a quad carburetor on it and sup up the parts and you'll be surprised what it can do. The I6 was commonly advertised as an economy motor and was built to under achieve. I saw a Chrysler 225 slant six turned into a real tiger!

"Before that, those big American engines that we now consider 'weak' were often making hundreds of horsepower, sometimes 1 per cubic inch. They were made weak to meet emissions standards."

I think it was Super Chevy that dyno'd a prestine version of the supposed "monster '70 Chevelle LS what that everyone brags about how it made more horsepower than GM would admit to.

288 HP at the rear.

That's barely an entry level high HP car these days.

What "killed" horsepower ratings in the 70's was the feds clamped down on car makers basically advertising whatever number they wanted. It was the same thing they did with stereo equipment. Then you added emmissons regulations later on, which the big three figured if they moaned enough, it'd go away. It didn't, and the Japanese ate their lunch.

To be fair, when you fix the two main problems the old muscle car V8s faced (horrid exhaust systems and extremely inefficient accessories) the rear wheel numbers start to get a bit closer to the hype. There's a reason why these old engine designs, when properly built up in the modern day, produce MORE power than the old gross ratings. Like this pretty moderate Oldsmobile 455 build, for instance:

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-1010-oldsmobile-455-big-block-engine-build/

All in all, the manifolds were WAY more easygoing on this project than I expected.

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I expected a lot of seized bolts, instead I found everything finger-tight. Even when there was studs they were loose in the head AND on the nut. The rearmost one to the firewall was even completely missing. I replaced both with bolts and their special washers salvaged from another Eagle.
Though to be honest, torquing them was not as fun. It wanted 26 foot pounds each and you could only get to them with a socket U-joint, so I put them all in at 15 and we'll see how that lasts.
The EGR tube on the last eagle I salvaged from was seized on pretty tight and had to be cut off. This one, again was easy to crack the threads on.
Bolts on the electric heater? No problem! Even the EGR was fine.
I did however notice that I was missing an exhaust manifold gasket. I assumed that this was someone previous neglecting to install it but no, that was normal. The gasket kit I ordered made sure to note that while one is included with the kit, finding manifolds without an existing gasket is perfectly normal. Man with how loose everything was this probably explains why this car ticked like a sewing machine so much.

The world would be a vastly better place if government had kept it's damn nose out and let the market drive the industry the right direction.

Fixed that for you.

I'm stunned at how few hoses there are in that engine bay. Normally early 80s carbureted engines are a mess of vacuum hoses.

For the same reason Canada got the Hyundai Pony and the United States did not, an Eagle built in Brampton has the dealership option of a Secondary Air Injection delete. This thing rolled off the production line with an EGR, PCV, Tank/carb vapor control and that's it. I mean, there's still a lot of lines I have removed right now to work on the engine but significantly fewer than a normal Kenosha built Eagle.

I imagine that makes it about 2000% easier to tune!

Fixed that for you.

That statement isn't broken in either form we've written it...