View Full Version : Restoring a RCA 21CT55
old_tv_nut 06-11-2018, 10:06 AM Looks like the RCA can't produce any black.
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There's a psychophysical effect involved in direct viewing that won't show in the side-by-side pictures on your computer. The older CRT faceplate is more reflective than the modern set, causing the shadow detail contrast to be compressed; but fortunately the simultaneous contrast effects of the eye cause the shadows to look darker and more black than they really are. Unfortunately, the details in the shadows are still masked. The picture may actually look better in person if the black level (brightness control) is raised slightly to make the details more visible. The camera sees this as grayish blacks, but the simultaneous contrast effects in direct viewing keep them looking fairly black.
Electronic M 06-11-2018, 11:46 AM Having examples of both sets the OP has on hand I can say that the Sony tends to have an overly bright/contrasty picture. Whites with brightness at min beat other vintage sets with brightness at max, and contrast sometimes pushes very dark colors into cutoff killing some shadow detail in images...He may have found a way to beat this on his Sony though.
I plan to look for sub-brightness and other things when I get arround to doing into the service menu to correct the overscan on my sony.
etype2 06-11-2018, 02:40 PM The comparison would be fairer if you could properly match the display aspect ratios a scaling.
I will take a few shots with the Sony in 4X3 mode.
etype2 06-11-2018, 02:43 PM Some 21AXP22s have NTSC correct phosphors, but not yours. The jug in yours is a later one with the "paper white" colored screen. The NTSC correct tubes have a seafoam green or teak tint to them when off.
Only the 15GP22, 15HP22, 19VP22, and the very earliest run of 21AXP22s have the NTSC correct phosphors.
Moreover, asking how the red looks is a moot point: we can't see what you can see in person. We're limited by the color gamut your camera can capture, which is almost assuredly smaller than the 1953 NTSC gamut, and by our displays, which again probably can't show a terribly "deep" red.
Stand corrected about the NTSC phosphors. The white screen hurts the contrast in my opinion. Edit: Shooting in the dark mitigates the problem.
etype2 06-11-2018, 02:47 PM Having examples of both sets the OP has on hand I can say that the Sony tends to have an overly bright/contrasty picture. Whites with brightness at min beat other vintage sets with brightness at max, and contrast sometimes pushes very dark colors into cutoff killing some shadow detail in images...He may have found a way to beat this on his Sony though.
I plan to look for sub-brightness and other things when I get arround to doing into the service menu to correct the overscan on my sony.
The Sony was set in “Pro” picture mode, supposedly matching closer to 6500 Kelvin. This set was not calibrated to ISF specs.
etype2 06-11-2018, 03:26 PM After examining the results of this test, I realize that the white balance was set incorrectly for the Sony. It should be set for “Sun” less warm then “shade”. Shade was used for the RCA which reduced the excessive blue on the RCA which I was not seeing on the screen.
Confused yet? :-)
There are a number of setting in the menu which we haven’t explored yet.
I want to address some of the comments, so I’ll shoot a few more shots. Edit: Look at the first Marilyn shot. I edited the photo this morning shooting in “Sun” white balance. Now her lavender dress matches the tone of the RCA, but her skin tone is less warm. The “ Sun” setting more closely matches what I’m seeing on the (not calibrated) Sony.
etype2 06-12-2018, 10:35 AM Thinking about Ben’s comment on the phosphors on my RCA, the photo used flash which emphasized the brightness of the CRT. In another thread, a VK member said I had an early 21CT55 based on the chassis serial numbers.
Here is an 8AM photo with light streaming in from the West.
https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/63A8E255-3F26-46E7-9991-D2DEE856B196.jpeg
etype2 06-12-2018, 12:00 PM RCA 21CT55 VS Sony KD-34XBR960 Part 2
The Sony is now in 4:3 aspect ratio and correct white balance.
Edit: First photo white balance. 6/13/18.
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benman94 06-12-2018, 02:13 PM My comment doesn't refer to brightness, but to color, hue. The screen on a 15GP22 or early 21AXP22 has an unmistakable seafoam green or teal color to it.
Your tube looks paper white to me. Is the tube number 21AXP22 or 21AXP22A?
If it is 21AXP22A, with the A suffix, it can only be paper white. End of story.
If a tube is type 21AXP22, there is a remote chance that it could he a very early production tube with the NTSC correct phosphors.
In any case, your tube is the later white jug. I'm not knocking the set, it just isn't the early 21AXP22. The tube currently in my CBS 205 is a "paper white" Sylvania built CBS branded 21AXP22A from 1956 or 1957. The later tubes are still capable of making great color pictures
etype2 06-12-2018, 02:29 PM It’s a 21AXP22. Photos of set in Mike’s shop with safety glass removed for cleaning and on delivery day, May 17, 2017. It does not look paper white to me. It has a green tint. The safety glass is clear.
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benman94 06-12-2018, 03:02 PM There are two easy ways to tell for sure:
Visually compare it to the 15GP22 in your Westinghouse. Or look at the 15GP22 in my Westinghouse thread. The pictures you linked to have poor lighting, it's hard to make out what type it is. In FULL sunlight, or extremely bright lighting, the 15Gs and early 21AXP22s will have a green color. The later 21AXP22s a white color. The difference is most noticeable at the ETF.
Or, look at the datecode on the tube. I have a "white" tube with a February of 1955 datecode, that's got to be about the earliest they would have been building the later-phosphor 21AXP22s.
It can be hard to tell from a photo.
etype2 06-12-2018, 03:43 PM I have your PM and will respond soon.
I can’t photograph the Westinghouse, it’s with Mike. The first photo is at the museum taken by Wayne, I believe. There is a definite green tint and all the more noticeable by the contrast of the bright white surround.
The second photo is my media room. I tried to control the light for best results in photo. It’s intersting because the CTC-7 obligatory SS of Dorothy came out well in this shot. That is what I was going for. The 21CT55 has a green tint.
In the third photo, we moved the side speakers off the floor and added an OSHA rubber molding to conceal the power cords to the two recliners. LED and incandescent lighting. You can judge the tint.
The next time we have to open the set up, I’ll check the date codes on the 21AXP22. The chassis is early, can’t remember the dates, it’s on Pete’s site.
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etype2 06-16-2018, 03:42 PM So we have been experimenting with the A6300 camera. I wanted to learn and shoot in RAW which is the best quality setting. Sony only offers software for Windows and OSX, but not OS11.
Can’t find third party software to run on iPad OS11. In going through the settings, I discovered that we were shooting the previous shots in “Fine”. I could have been shooting in “Extra Fine”.
Edit: There is a good amount of film grain in the “Red Shoes” 1948 restored film. On the RCA, I had thought it was grunge noise until viewing on the Sony.
A few new shots using the “Extra Fine” setting, shutter priority, 1/15 sec., ISO 1000 and white balance “Sun” instead of shade.
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Edit: Reshot restaurant scene on RCA.
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New shots photographed June 18, 2018.
RCA VS SONY
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Added June 20, 2018
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Added June 21, 2018
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etype2 07-01-2018, 04:16 PM Getting the hang of all the adjustments of my new camera, Sony A6300. RCA 21CT55 17 months after restoration.
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etype2 07-31-2018, 12:47 PM Two new shots.
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Popester 08-01-2018, 12:16 PM Etype2, it's still amazing the spread of years between the RCA and the Sony. Granted the Sony does have a better picture but if I were at your man cave, I would rather watch the RCA and marvel at what engineering we had sixty years ago. Great pictures on both sets.
etype2 08-01-2018, 05:46 PM Thanks. I agree, the RCA amazes me. To be honest, I was prejudiced toward the old roundies because I’m old enough to remember seeing color TV in 1956. Back then to me, color was hard to tune in correctly and the quality of the studio cameras and associated equipment was not what we have today. The programming was exciting to see in color but watching a DVD or a current telecast on the 21CT55 has very good quality and the nostalgia of it all...
Tomcomm 08-17-2018, 01:21 PM I agree, both the 21CT55 and the KD-34XBR2 are the best of the CRT tv art.
I've got two Sony KD 34XBR2 that were destined for trash pickup in about 2010. Both were purchased new in 2002 and are within 100 serial numbers. One works perfect, never had back off. The other has horizontal pincushion problem and local over-heat shutdown. I've got the complete Sony Service Manual with "Self Diagnosis" so I should be able to fix it. The "electrical adjustments by remote commander" seems to be a total bitch to comprehend and execute! Has anyone attempted this on the later 34XBR960 or so?
etype2 08-17-2018, 04:15 PM I have the later 34XBR960. I have 12 blinks on startup, and never had a reason to investigate. I think there is an earlier thread on this set. The number of blinks is part of the diagnosis. The RCA still going strong 19 months after restoration. Running a cooling fan and a power conditioner.
etype2 09-20-2018, 03:58 AM UPDATE SEPTEMBER 19, 2018
New live, shot on the fly without the aid of freeze frame, screenshots. Local Arizona news anchor women. Photographed September 19, 2018. RCA 21CT55 with CTC2B chassis and 21AXP22 CRT. Still going strong 19 months after restoration.
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old_tv_nut 09-20-2018, 11:31 AM Nice.
Have these been down res'd for posting? The third one shows a lot of color moire' in the white dress and into the yellow background below her arm. Resolution of posted image is 1668x1481. I wonder what the full resolution of your camera is and what the moire' looks like at full resolution.
etype2 09-20-2018, 12:48 PM Yes, it was down res’d from 6000X4000. I deleted the original due to space considerations on the camera card. I think the original had the moire’.
Edit: I found the original and moire’ is there.
old_tv_nut 09-20-2018, 03:11 PM Are you viewing the original at full scale 1:1? Sometimes an original without moire' will develop moire when viewed because the display resizing produces it.
If this happens, you may be able to find a down-res program that reduces the moire'.
Irfanview offers multiple downsampling techniques so you can choose the best one.
etype2 09-21-2018, 03:03 PM That program won’t work on OS. I tried different settings and l have a few more free of the moire’. These are 1/15, F5.6, ISO 6400. Down res’d from 6000X4000. Photographed last night.
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Telecolor 3007 09-21-2018, 04:03 PM Good job.
Original "Star TreK" series in the 1st and 2nd image, no?
Crist Rigott 09-21-2018, 04:20 PM Is there anyway to make your images smaller? I thought the guide was 800x800 pixels.
etype2 09-21-2018, 05:18 PM Good job.
Original "Star TreK" series in the 1st and 2nd image, no?
Yes, Season 2, Episode 15, 1967.
etype2 09-21-2018, 05:23 PM Is there anyway to make your images smaller? I thought the guide was 800x800 pixels.
I could reduce to this size and provide a link to the full resolution like this:
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I think a lot of detail is lost with such a small image. I understand it reduces the text on this forum, but I have no problem reading on an iPad with a 10.5 inch screen. If the folks want me to reduce the size from this point forward, I will do so.
Electronic M 09-21-2018, 06:21 PM Might be good to keep them smaller. On a ~6 year old PC with good resolution with zoom set to near the comfortable minimum readable text size the pics on post 274 are just barely too big to fit my screen... And my PC is running a robust 1920X1080. There are some users here that are still for some unfathomable reason running win98 and or XP dinosaurs with lousy 800X600 monitors...If your bigger 4k pics are way off my screen those dinosaur guys must have it much worse.
old_tv_nut 09-21-2018, 07:03 PM Smaller pics are OK as long as you post links to large ones, IMO. Can't really see the image quality except the color on the small ones.
Kevin Kuehn 09-21-2018, 07:13 PM I could reduce to this size and provide a link to the full resolution like this:
Yep, that's a good size for unfathomable windows XP users. :D
Crist Rigott 09-21-2018, 09:10 PM Much better size. Thank you.
etype2 09-23-2018, 04:56 PM Johnny Carson show, 1973, photographed September 23, 2018 from Get TV. Correction, Antenna TV.
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Link, full resolution: https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/CC880676-3A2E-479D-9EFD-5C9571007070.jpeg
old_tv_nut 09-23-2018, 09:09 PM Interesting. Chroma looks early (or luma late), which I think I would blame on the source. (Good luck finding a source today that has the luma and chroma timing and RF group delay per true NTSC specs).
etype2 11-22-2018, 10:07 PM Update, November 22, 2018.
These thumbnails are low resolution of today’s Macy Thanksgiving Parade screenshots on a RCA 21CT55 with a 21AXP22. Link to full resolution 6000X4000 photos in photo carousel. https://visions4netjournal.com/vintage-rca-color-tv-page-two-2/#jp-carousel-6707
Also: https://visions4netjournal.com/vintage-rca-color-tv-page-two-2/
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Steve D. 11-23-2018, 02:23 PM Marshall,
Your 21CT55 photos should put to rest all those who think these early color sets couldn't produce quality color images. Here's an off screen photo from my CT-100 of the Macy's Parade from last year. Can't compare w/your stunning photos. Thanks for posting.
-Steve D.
benman94 11-23-2018, 02:27 PM I watched the Hudson's parade here in Detroit, but alas on a B/W Westinghouse. Very nice shots on the 21-CT-55.
etype2 12-03-2018, 01:30 AM Shots from the Victoria Secrets Holiday show broadcast December 2, 2018 on a 21CT55 with a 21AXP22. The thumbnails are blurry go here to see them in 6000 X 4000 resolution. https://visions4netjournal.com/vintage-rca-color-tv-page-two-2/
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dtvmcdonald 12-03-2018, 03:07 PM If you don't think CT-100s can produce high quality color images, look at the old thread
images off my now RIP 15GP22. They are much larger than my avatar ... and provide
images of the original photos to directly compare to, carefully calibrated so they can be directly compared for color on your screen.
etype2 12-03-2018, 03:25 PM I will search for it, but if you have a quick link .....
etype2 12-03-2018, 03:59 PM dtvmcdonald, I hope my Westy will look as good.
etype2 12-17-2018, 01:17 AM Miss Universe contest broadcast last night, 12/16/2018 on a RCA 21CT55 with a 21AXP22.
https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/33434C02-1187-4450-A6BE-2B676C58B77C.jpeg
198043
etype2 01-01-2019, 03:42 PM UPDATE JANUARY 1, 2019
In 1954, 65 years ago today, the first coast to coast color telecast occurred. It was the Rose Bowl Tournament Of Roses parade. Few people got to see the telecast except for television engineers and a few prototype televisions set up in appliance stores throughout the country.
During the year 1954, wealthy folks for the first time, were able to purchase color sets $995.00 and up in time to watch the 1955 Rose Parade telecast in their homes on New Year’s Day. One such television was the RCA 21CT55 “Spectacular”.
Today we commemorate the first color broadcast of the parade on our 64 year old RCA 21CT55 with screen shots taken live off the screen from over the air NBC signals, the same broadcaster as in 1954. Tap on the images for full resolution. The link opens a full resolution image carousel.
https://visions4netjournal.com/vintage-rca-color-tv-page-two-2/#jp-carousel-7473
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etype2 02-07-2019, 10:00 PM This is a screenshot from the premier Season 1, episode 1 Sonny and Cher show. August 1, 1971. I wonder if this was taped using a TK 41 or a Plumbicon. Shot from a 21CT55.
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old_tv_nut 02-07-2019, 10:24 PM From what I see, (apparent limited resolution and low noise) I'd guess Plumbicon, but that's very tentative. I don't see any of the strong edge enhancement that Plumbicon cameras often had.
Can you play it on a flat screen and see what the left and right edges and corners look like? Some TK-41s had strong yoke ringing on the left; and also, the corner shading usually was not as good as the Plumbicon cameras.
Of course, if this is from a DVD, it may have had all kinds of noise reduction processing applied.
etype2 02-07-2019, 10:28 PM This was taken from Get-TV recently. I find this image and the other shots I took to look artificial/unnatural. Can’t put my finger on it.
old_tv_nut 02-07-2019, 10:32 PM GET-TV via what delivery means? Probably reduced to minimum acceptable resolution and bit rate.
etype2 02-07-2019, 10:36 PM OTA. Converter box. I saw one studio shot of Cher looking through the viewfinder of a Noreclo, but she looked older then her appearance on the season premier.
old_tv_nut 02-07-2019, 10:52 PM https://web.archive.org/web/20080516050145/http://novia.net/~ereitan/studios.html
According to Ed Reitan's info, CBS Television City converted to Norelcos starting in 1964
etype2 02-07-2019, 11:03 PM Earlier then I thought. I read somewhere that CBS reluctantly purchased RCA caneras and covered up the RCA logo. I asked because I think NBC was using the TK-41, TK-41A around this time.
Steve D. 02-08-2019, 11:47 AM I'm sure that by 1971 CBS TV City in Hollywood had been using Norelco color cameras for some time. I believe that NBC was still using RCA TK-41 Cameras on many of their live/taped shows during this same period.
MarkF350 02-09-2019, 07:20 PM This was taken from Get-TV recently. I find this image and the other shots I took to look artificial/unnatural. Can’t put my finger on it.It's most likely due to digital compression when it is broadcast. I'm in the A/V business and we refer to this as the "soap opera effect", it's most noticeable on LED TVs unless you change settings in the TV to get rid of it. Artificial lighting effects and no depth of field is the result.
Sent from my Phone using Tapatalk
etype2 02-09-2019, 10:49 PM Everything was analog in 1971 except the transmission methods broadcast today.
Another shot from the same show. The image looks flat and shiny like plastic with the Plumbicon camera in this particular CBS studio.
https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/C6A4A9B2-6548-4BE4-A8A1-C3E9A1E6BC09.png
Here is a NBC studio shot with a TK-41. 1973. I think there is more depth and range in the facial tones.
https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/FC072E32-B8FB-400D-B87B-BB4ED5CC5CFB.jpeg
etype2 02-25-2019, 09:35 PM Update.
2019 Oscar show live on ABC photographed February 24, 2019.
The first screenshot is from a 64 year old RCA 21CT55. A comparison shot from a 2018 LG E8 OLED.
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Two more shots from the RCA.
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etype2 04-09-2019, 10:06 PM My monthly check of the operational status of our newly restored RCA 21CT55, two years, two months ago. Here are screenshots taken today and last night.
Restoration by Mike Doyle.
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One more.
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etype2 04-21-2019, 06:35 AM UPDATE, APRIL 20, 2019
It’s been 2 years, 2 months since the restoration completion and all is well. Today we photographed a series of screenshots of the live over the air broadcast of the Ten Commandments by the ABC broadcasting network. The RCA 21CT55 is 65 years old and has the original 21AXP22 CRT. The shots were taken on the fly, no freeze frame. We used a Sony A6300. FL 16mm, Aperture F5.0, shutter speed 1/50 sec., white balance auto. I hope you enjoy these shots as much as I enjoyed taking them.
You can download full resolution shots from this link: https://visions4netjournal.com/vintage-rca-color-tv-page-two-2/
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etype2 04-24-2019, 07:42 AM UPDATE, APRIL 24, 2019
Is this cheating?
The dilemma for a photographer is how to capture a properly exposed vintage television cabinet without over exposing the television image on the screen! One method is to minimize the room lighting so that the cabinet can be seen, but reduce the light reaching the display surface. This is a compromise at best, as the image will be noisy from low light (unless you have a high quality camera for low light situations) and the display still won’t be properly exposed. I like to see a properly exposed color image and to do that, I usually shoot my screenshots in darkness. Many people prefer to see the cabinet with the display on even though the color image is compromised.
So, we did an experiment. I set up my Sony A6300 on a tripod in a fixed position so that the cabinet of our RCA 21CT55 would be fully resolved in natural daylight without flash. For the first shot, the FL was 16mm, aperture 3.5, SS 1/50 second, auto white balance. It was 4PM, April 23, 2019, cloudy sky, television off.
For the screenshots, we closed the shutters, turned off the lights and the room was dark. The camera, still in its same position on the tripod was ready to take the screenshots. We turned on the television and let it run for 15 minutes as the circuits needed to stabilize with a nice bright, well focused display. (We previously calibrated the set and the set received a full alignment.) We set the aperture to 7.1 which closely matched the brightness on the display. We shot about 35 screenshot images.
The next step was to cut and paste the selected screenshots. This was done the hard way as we do not have Photoshop and all editing was done on my iPad Pro 2, 10.5 which is speced out for 98% DCI-3 color space. What we needed was to “cut out” only the properly exposed screenshots shot in darkness from the black surrounds. Since both the daylight and dark shots were taken from the same vantage point on the tripod, the screenshot images once cut, would paste nicely over the screen on the daylight shot of the cabinet.
The results can be seen below. Not a professional job, but okay. Now we can see the properly exposed cabinet and screenshots together with no compromise. I recall this procedure was a topic in a thread at Videokarma, where it was thought an image on a prototype Pye Chromatron was fake.
So this experiment was to show what can be done without faking the photography. The only adjustments made were to cut, paste and to crop the images to center the 21CT55 within the images. There are two non cropped images below. Full resolution shots can be seen at this link: https://visions4netjournal.com/vintage-rca-color-tv-page-two-2/
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old_tv_nut 04-24-2019, 12:10 PM Very nice. This was the technique used for TV set ads that stated "actual TV picture."
etype2 09-23-2019, 01:09 PM UPDATE, SEPTEMBER 22, 2019
Screenshots of the 2019 Emmy award show telecast live on September 22, 2019. They were taken without the aid of a tripod or freeze frame, direct from my rooftop antenna and digital converter box. The set was on during the red carpet show and the entire three hour telecast. Tap on any image to open the carousel. You can also see the full resolution images by tapping on the full resolution image tab. The set is holding up well, two years, nine months after restoration. Notice the NTSC colors displayed by the 21AXP22. The only other tricolor CRT to have “correct” NTSC color phosphors was the RCA 15GP22 according to the collector community.
Go here to see full resolution. https://visions4netjournal.com/vintage-rca-color-tv-page-two-2/#jp-carousel-10287
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Tony V 09-23-2019, 04:08 PM Awesome pictures! Fantastic job!
freakaftr8 09-23-2019, 04:22 PM Still looks amazing!
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