View Full Version : Stromberg Carlson 21TQ restoration


bandersen
01-31-2016, 09:57 PM
A customer recently dropped off a 1954/55 21" Stromberg tabletop along with a nifty mid 30s Airline tombstone radio.

I figure I'll tackle the TV first.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1563/24111111993_3bc464fd11_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/CJBKzt) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1551/24115531674_0567d6f6df_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/CK1poS)


The cabinet is solid maple - no skimping on veneer with this set.
It's also very heavy. No way could I life it inside so I pulled the chassis out on the porch.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1471/24111109573_06961aa214_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/CJBJRK) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1719/24111108233_9462a6a753_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/CJBJsD)

Sneak peek inside.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1687/24644438451_dc56d8b55b_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DxKbXe)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1709/24442427820_2065f2b16c_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DeTQej)

bandersen
01-31-2016, 10:04 PM
The 21XP4A CRT tested very good so I lugged the chassis up onto the workbench.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1557/24738058935_12045c6f33_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DG224v) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1474/24442512590_0f5d3a3bfc_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DeUgqS)

Much to awkward to work on like this so I unmounted the CRT.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1660/24111191933_6dfea891dd_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/CJCakK) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1514/24711854066_ee397c54b3_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DDGHgq)

Unfortunately, it's got a case of yoke cover rot. I'll try to fabricate a replacement using styrene.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1583/24370294589_07caf23b9f_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/D8w8wV)

Finally, here's a look under the chassis. It's had some work done, but not much. For sure, that big Sprague Atom isn't original. It also isn't connected to anything :scratch2:
Those can lytics will be super easy to work on :yes:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1525/24442508390_a752d2ab5a_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DeUfbs) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1612/24109871784_3e96eb3f7d_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/CJvoUy)

I popped out the 5U4 rectifier and fired it up. All the tubes lit and I get around 650 VAC on the secondary. Full steam ahead!
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1454/24111190653_520acca869_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/CJC9XF)

Steve D.
01-31-2016, 10:40 PM
That S-C is one very clean and beautifully constructed set.

-Steve D.

bandersen
02-01-2016, 09:54 PM
Definitely the easiest electrolytic replacement I've done. Skinny caps make it even easier. All four new caps fit nicely within the base.
I was just going to leave the new caps exposed, but figure it might be helpful to a future restored if I tape the can top back on. That way the original cap values, voltages and symbols will be preserved.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1569/24732260346_c725750cf5_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DFvikQ) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1493/24664984211_07abeb78a2_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Dzyuut)

bandersen
02-02-2016, 11:52 PM
I finished replacing the electrolytics and a few paper caps in the audio circuit and tried a power up. My hope was that I could at least get some sound.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1669/24419256199_0f4fe02ef0_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DcR57B)

I got sound alright - the sound of a 100uF cap popping !
It wasn't a wiring mistake though. I screwed up with the restuffing and had mixed up a 100uF 50v cap with a 47uF 450 volt cap.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1604/24786920245_856bd50295_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DLkrPT)

I got that fixed up and this time got a nice bright raster but no sound.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1504/24669111092_27c8c30465_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DzVDgA)

I injected a composite signal right in the grid of the video amp and got a test pattern of sorts. Seems to be a problem somewhere between the 3rd and 4th IF stage....
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1636/24760700026_bd88f0338c_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DJ24t9)

DavGoodlin
02-03-2016, 01:43 PM
I bet there were not many sets with a 4th IF stage by the mid 50s.

bandersen
02-03-2016, 10:54 PM
I was thinking the same thing. This is a well designed set for sure. I did a little more recapping on the horizontal and sync circuits and finally got a stable image.
Vertical is still very touchy and no signal is getting through the tuner.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1665/24806494525_d1e06cdcfe_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DN4Lzt)

bandersen
02-04-2016, 07:35 PM
The detector diode is very easy to get at. I wonder if they anticipated a lot of failures ?
This one happens to test good and swapping in a 1N34A made no difference.
Seems I have no choice but to dive into the tuner.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1544/24528032790_55f39475d9_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DnszB5) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1463/24705697942_ee76906e85_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DDaagm)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1575/24705697342_30e0b5fc9f_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DDaa61) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1646/24823554015_6e2f5021d0_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DPzcLB)

Eric H
02-04-2016, 07:43 PM
Bob, is it the pictures or does that chassis have that gold anodized look that the Japanese stuff had?

Much better than the oxidized Cadmium we usually find.

bandersen
02-04-2016, 08:00 PM
I'm not quite sure. I tried cleaned a section and a lot of the yellow came off. That plus the baked on crud on the tubes leads me to think it's nicotine and tar.
Underneath it does appear to be treated with something other than cadmium though. Whatever they used it's corrosion free :)

Electronic M
02-04-2016, 08:03 PM
I've been working on a Fisher 101R tuner that has a similar diode mounting scheme for the ratio detector.

bandersen
02-04-2016, 10:52 PM
The tuner was pretty easy to get out. Four wires for power and an RCA jack for the IF out.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1499/24530630260_f85ba026cf_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DnFTK3)

Popping two pieces of spring wire out frees up the drum to reveal this mess.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1625/24458516769_72a912ab68_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DgjhUZ)

I quickly found a 100K that measured almost 900! A couple others were off but not as much. I'll replace them, clean up the contacts and give it a try.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1665/24199316053_89798c92dd_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/CSpPz8)

Kevin Kuehn
02-04-2016, 11:38 PM
Bob, is it the pictures or does that chassis have that gold anodized look that the Japanese stuff had?

Much better than the oxidized Cadmium we usually find.

It looks like a Chromate conversion coating, which can be done over cadmium. That color was also common on some automotive parts.

I'm guessing that tuner chassis is the common cadmium, so you can see the contrast between that and the underside of the main chassis.

bandersen
02-05-2016, 01:16 AM
Replacing those tuner resistors didn't seem to have any effect so I went back to square one. It seemed to be that although I could feed a signal into the IF and get an image, I was having to use a really strong signal.
So I started swapping and wiggling tubes even though I had already tested them all.
Eureka! An image and sound :banana: Only problem though is that it's inverted :scratch2:
I swapped out the video output tube while the set was running and briefly got a normal image as the tube warmed up. I'll investigate the video amp circuit more tomorrow.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1483/24827913985_5daa403a73_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DPXxQv)

Electronic M
02-05-2016, 02:38 AM
Could the detector diode be plugged in backwards?

ohohyodafarted
02-05-2016, 10:38 AM
I'm not quite sure. I tried cleaned a section and a lot of the yellow came off. That plus the baked on crud on the tubes leads me to think it's nicotine and tar.
Underneath it does appear to be treated with something other than cadmium though. Whatever they used it's corrosion free :)

The yellow is from yellow chromate coating over the base plating which could be zinc or cadmium.

bandersen
02-05-2016, 10:41 AM
Could the detector diode be plugged in backwards?

That was the first thing I thought of too :) No, switching it screws it up even more. I discovered that this problem has existed all along. When I injected a signal directly in the IF, I had the contrast up 100%. If I back it off a little, I get a reversed test pattern too. The service specifically mentions an inverted image in the troubleshooting section and indicates it's a problem in the video amp.

bandersen
02-05-2016, 11:27 PM
I've been swapping tubes and tweaking AGC and contrast settings. Things are looking better but still don't seem quite right. Contrast is too harsh. If I back off, the image inverts or fades away.
Cartoons aren't so bad, but live action is hard to watch.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1509/24845905775_ba80c0b35c_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DRxLaM) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1717/24550464350_3863fedbc6_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DprxJ7)

Username1
02-06-2016, 04:55 PM
Wow that is a beautiful cabinet, and a nice looking chassis too....
I'm wondering if you have a bias issue around the video amplifier tube....
Possible bad resistor, or coupling cap in the area of the contrast control....
Maybe even a bad spot in the contrast control itself.....
I would love to see that set in person !

.

bandersen
02-06-2016, 08:28 PM
It's a pretty set alright :yes: I reinstalled the full size CRT and get a nice bright picture but contrast problem remains. I've checked all the resistors but will recheck and try replacing the ceramic disc cap on the contrast control.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1677/24770085291_929fa09393_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DJRao4)

old_coot88
02-06-2016, 08:59 PM
Any chance of posting the schematic of the video amp area? It kinda looks as if the G1 on one of the video tubes is biased too heavily negative. Maybe a cathode resistor too high in value(?).

bandersen
02-06-2016, 09:37 PM
Bingo. Grid bias resistor on the video amp should be 560K but measured more than 10X that! It wasn't apparent until I had clipped one lead out of the circuit.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1664/24771350921_37bd931692_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DJXDBg)

Much better :yes:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1540/24771350251_2e16df2b74_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DJXDpH)

old_coot88
02-07-2016, 01:03 AM
Hah. Semi-floaty grid. Which tube was it, the 6AU6 or 12BY7?

bandersen
02-07-2016, 09:09 AM
It was the 12BY7. I think the last challenge is going to be fabricating a yoke cover using styrene

Tim
02-07-2016, 08:53 PM
I think the last challenge is going to be fabricating a yoke cover using styrene

If you send me the dimensions I can try and design and 3D print one for you. I have printed several plain ones but not yet one with the centering ring supports. It may take a couple of weeks though as I only have access to a 3D printer one evening a week. If you just want to make one yourself and button this set up that is fine, just giving you an option.

bandersen
02-08-2016, 12:17 PM
Thanks for the offer - that cover looks great. I think I will go ahead and make one using styrene though. I have the materials on hand and want to get the set all buttoned up. I will definitely keep you in mind for future projects :yes:

The set has really good bandwidth and there's no need to touch the alignment.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1563/24604308700_25c918927d_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DucvLY)

I managed to get the heavy chassis back into the cabinet and cleaned up the safety glass.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1604/24604307630_5ddfa068f3_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Ducvsw) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1633/24271642564_c226becf7c_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/CYNvHW)

The back is in very good contition but only one screw was holding it on when I got it. That's been taken care of.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1570/24781859352_934f359600_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DKTvp7)

bandersen
02-17-2016, 07:54 PM
I just finished fabricating a new yoke cover from some styrene stock. A circle cutter with a sharp blade makes the task much easier. I think it turned out quite well.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1592/24802474450_1aa748398d_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DMHaxQ)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1644/24979905802_653960d47a_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/E4oxH5)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1577/25098086685_0533f530e9_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EeQfLv)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1511/25098086115_dc157aaac8_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EeQfAF)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1469/25098085255_cdc8240ef1_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EeQfkR)

Kevin Kuehn
02-17-2016, 09:27 PM
That looks excellent. Can you still paint it black, or just going with the white?

Radiotronman
02-17-2016, 10:06 PM
That looks awesome! Great job

bandersen
02-17-2016, 10:25 PM
Thanks. I'm just going to leave it white. I figure black paint would flake or scrape off when the centering rings are adjusted.

Eric H
02-18-2016, 12:27 AM
What thickness is the Styrene?

bandersen
02-18-2016, 10:40 AM
what thickness is the styrene?

0.03"

Eric H
02-18-2016, 10:57 AM
0.03"

Perfect, that's what I picked out on Amazon to order.
I have several sets that need covers.

I have a mini Lathe and was thinking about trying to make covers with it, but this actually. Seems like a simpler solution.

bandersen
02-28-2016, 06:22 PM
With the yoke cover and centering rings installed, I was able to make all the final tweaks and button the set up. It sure has a nice bright picture and I hope the owner gets many years of enjoyment from it.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1491/25257123061_7cce8166b0.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EtTmJZ) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1497/24719606204_4862699f1b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DEorGY)