Hey ya'll, It's been a little while. Well I thought I was going to be getting to my Zenith SC, but the space I had reserved for pulling it apart in is not available anymore at the moment, and like I said before, I'm not dragging it down to the basement. For now, It'll wait.:boring:

Anyway's, after recapping some radio's, I've decided to get into this set. It's allready got an issue. Well, what's new about that.:grumpy:
So far, I've replaced all the Electrolytic caps, some paper that looked suspicious, and some that were clustered together around the suspicious one's since I was on a role... I have more to go. I also allready swapped the celenium's for 1N4007 diode's.
Unfortunatly I dont have a schematic to go by for this one. It's on ETF's site but it's too hard to read...http://www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/motorola_ts-14_manual.pdfSo i've been going with what's in the set since it was complete and didn't look burnt.

Well, I tried a power up and... blew an E-cap:mad::whip: It was only at 30V!...
I also found that none of the tubes had lit up(all are good) and I had really heated up another e-cap. Both of these caps are connected to the diode's. The diodes are wired in the same as the celeniums were. positive-negative wise. I never added any resistors too them. (I don't know if they need them or not.) The cap that blew was a replacement for 140mfd/150v. I had 147mf/160v in place and it heated the 100mfd/300v cap up. Nothing that I could see was shorted out on another component, so why would it do this with only 30v being introduced into the set???

some pics.
Note: I know my e-caps look like a mess, but nothing is touching what it shouldn't be. I also have pictures of what I beleive is a capacitor. Is that the value on the backside or a part# that looks like a cap value? I havn't come across capacitors that look like that one yet.

Well usually for a cap to blow like that the polarity has to be backwards.

From what I can see in your picture you have the positive of the Diode going to the chassis ground and the negative going to the positive of the cap?

The angle of that photo is a little misleading.
The one that blew(147/160v) is connected at the positive and negative of the 2 diode's. The positive of one diode then goes to the 100mfd cap+ and the negative of the other goes to the 2nd e-cap can ground. (I kept the cans as the ground points, and only disconected the positives of them.)

Quick question, the negative of the diode's is the side with the line right?

No, the Positive of the Diode is the end with the line.

That one marked .047 400 is a cap, a paper type, not electrolytic. .047 Micro farads at 400 volts, a higher voltage can be used but the .047 must stay the same.

The diode conducts when the end with the line is negative.

This means that when used as a rectifier, the end with the line
is the plus end. That obvious diode has the correct end to ground.

I do suggest that if you leave that mess as-is, use plenty of
vinyl tape! I've been known to do that. Its not OK, well it IS perfectly OK
electrically, just leads to nasty comments on Videokarma.

some paper that looked suspiciousThe appearance of a paper cap is not a reliable guide to condition. It can look perfect on the outside, yet leak like crazy when you apply the operating voltage.

This article has basic information about identifying old capacitors and choosing replacements:

http://antiqueradio.org/recap.htm

Regards,

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

I can't find the schematic anywhere, but if the B+ supply uses a standard doubler circuit, it should be one of the two configurations shown here..
http://www.electronic-circuits-for-hobbyists.com/circuit-diagram-voltage-doubler-two-diode.php
The banded end of the Si diode denotes the cathode. Seleneums frequently had a '+' sign denoting the cathode, which is counterintuitive as hell. But that was the convention.

hi, Check front cover of the Motorola manual you will see that it is for chassis,TS-14,TS-23 and TS-52. Photofact for all three is 92-4. ETM does have a scan of that photofact. All the best, tom.j.fla

Thanks guy's for the info about the diodes. I didn't realize that when used as rectifiers that ya essentially swap there polarities. I had them in backwards for that funtion.
Hey Phil, when I talked about the suspicious caps, they looked plain bad. Side popping out if the one, another had the lead pop off when moved,yadayadyada. hey Tom, I'll have to look that up on a PC. It doesn't seem to want to work on the IPod touch.

Anyway's I put new E cap in place of the blown 147/160v unit. Also checked the diodes and they test good. I rewired them how they should be.
Should I replace the 100mfd cap as well? It got hot but didn't ooze it's guts.
I decided to try another power up. Had the dim bulb tester on it this time. Everything OK, so I upped the power and got a raster. In the form of a 1.5 inch horizontal line on the screen. I couldnt get it to fill the screen.

Well, I replaced most of the paper caps. Still have 3 bumble bees by the gang of e-caps. I decided to power it up again. Same basic response, except I seem to have better sound now,more shush since it has no incoming signal. No real improvement in the image. Still can't get it to fill the screen. My vert output tube is good. It's also wavy (like 60hz interferance) so Mabey that 100mfd is f'd up. I also noticed something I find very odd. The picture is it's brightest at about 85volts. When raised to 110v, the picture goes very dim. I have no clue what the deal with that is!?

That's where I'm at so far. Whatcha y'all think?...

I think that you should really get the rest of the caps replaced before you go any further. Replacing the seleniums with diodes but leaving *any* capacitors un-replaced in a set of this age is doing it backwards IMO.

Be aware that I worked on my TS-14 for sync troubles for a long time and got nowhere! I had replaced the seleniums with 1N4007 diodes and the B+ was too high. I added resistance in line with the diodes and got the B+ where it should be and the sync was fine. Replace the caps in the horizontal oscillator stage. If there are leaky ones the set goes nuts! Other than that, these are reliable sets and have a great picture!

Should I replace the 100mfd cap as well? It got hot but didn't ooze it's guts.
<snip>
I replaced most of the paper caps. Still have 3 bumble bees by the gang of e-caps.
<snip>
Whatcha y'all think?...

I would replace any electrolytic cap that got reverse voltage, especially if it heated up.... and get those darn bumble bee caps out of there ASAP.

jr

Be aware that I worked on my TS-14 for sync troubles for a long time and got nowhere! I had replaced the seleniums with 1N4007 diodes and the B+ was too high. I added resistance in line with the diodes and got the B+ where it should be and the sync was fine. Replace the caps in the horizontal oscillator stage. If there are leaky ones the set goes nuts! Other than that, these are reliable sets and have a great picture!

Generally you have to add resistance to the diodes when doing a selenium replacement as a rule. Only exception seem to be 7" electrostatic sets. You can calculate the proper resistance (or at least ballpark it) by looking up the specs of the selenium in the sams.

But jr_tech is right. You're asking for trouble leaving those bumblebees in there. I'm by no means the last word on TV restoration, but it's been my experience that you can't leave any of that stuff in there and expect the set to work long term.

As a rule if a cap gets warm or hot in operation (assuming a power tube is not really close and heating it up) THEN IT IS A BAD CAP, if you wait until they blow their guts odds are other possibly unobtainium parts are going to be killed by them.

Ok, the bumble bees are gone,(There was no plan to keep them) and so is that 100mfd E-cap. That cap's replacement looks worse now(3capscombined) but at least I don't have to worry about it. The "general" recap seems to be complete. No more old papers(bb,or those plastic ones) and no old E-caps.

Hey Zenith26kc20, Do ya remember what the ratings of your resistors were? I'm not sure how to figure it.
Kamakiri- I saw in the Sams mentioned above http://www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/Motorola-TS-23-Sams-92-4.pdf and the only spec is the current rating, which is .225A for both. I don't know what to do with that info.

After working more this evening, I powered it up again. All is the same...:no: Well, at least it seems stable. Nothing burned up or changed in the 15 minute long power up.:yes:
I'm still dumbfounded with it losing brightness when the power is raised to line voltage. And I can't get it to fill the majority of the screen. Only have a 1.5"-2" horizontal line. I noticed if I turn the horiz hold more than 1/3 counter clockwise this thing just SQUEALS. I also notice that if I messed with the vert.lin or size(cant remember which), and put the control in the middle the screen would bounce into the thin horizontal line, then it will go back to the 1.5" line without changing the control...hmmm this thing sure is strange:scratch2:

Thats where Im at so far...
heres a picture!!!

Did you try turning down the brightness at line voltage? What may be happening is when the brightness comes on turned up full it may be pulling the high voltage down which in turn, kills the brightness.

There's a bit of keystone in that raster, possibly a sign of a bad yoke but more likely something wonky in the vertical circuit.

The horizontal squealing is caused by it running way off frequency, you may need to adjust the frequency coil, or possibly you have a cap that's the wrong value in the horiz oscillator circuit (which could also bring down the high voltage and brightness).

On the vertical circuit make sure the tube is good, the resistors are in tolerance, the pots are clean/not open, and check voltages on the vertical tubes.

If that fails connect the yoke or primary of the vertical output transformer to a variac (make sure it is disconnected from the set before connecting to the variac) and slowly turn it up while watching for more deflection. If you don't get more deflection from that then your yoke or vert transformer is bad (which one can be determined by the connection point).

To add to Eric's point if the H osc. is out of tune it can cause poor HV regulation and even cause the HV to drop out. If you have a scope, connect it to a video source (like a DVD player), and measure the horizontal period by looking for the synch pulse, then with the horizontal settings of the scope unchanged connect the scope to the set's H osc. and tune the osc till the width of the osc wave form is as close as you can get it to the one you measured on the composite video....I've done this on sets with pure unobtanium flys before plugging the output tube in as a safety precaution, and it has worked.

In responce to Eric's post. My computer is being very slow tonight.

I did not turn it down. I left it alone durring. I havn't had it set at max though. I don't want to take the chance of burning the crt.

I know that yoke is stuck on the crt. When I tried pulling the crt off, it wouldnt let it move far.... I didn't want to push my limits so i just tightened everything back up and left it together. I also dont think that thingamajig behind the yoke is original. Looks different than the images on the manuals

in responce to Electronic M...damn slow ass computer

Tubes are good, pins are clean, I cleaned all the pots but still have yet to check them. I still need to check resistors and voltage too.

That sounds like an interesting test...

Unfortunatly I dont have a scope....or much of any actual test equipment other than my analog multi meter and my tube tester.

If the yoke is an "iron wire" type, the iron wire making up the core will make the windings shrink and get stuck to the neck of the picture tube. I fought with my Admiral and ended up losing the vacuum in the CRT when I accidently pulled the CRT socket off when I tried to put the yoke over it. I got a replacement that had an iron wire yoke (stuck also) and unwound the wire and got it off. I also had to get a replacement yoke for the admiral. Be careful and if you don't have to, leave the CRT/yoke alone for now. If the variac test shows the yoke bad, you'll have to take it apart to get it off.
The resistors were around 22 ohm 5 watt. Check the B+ after you install them. It looks like you have a good number of bad capacitors in the set. I completely recapped mine before I started to troubleshoot.

Good thing I never pulled it off then. I wanted to for the recap. Oh and yes, it's fully recapped. I really hope it didn't look THAT bad to ya...to make ya think I've done nothing in regard to recapping. Thanks for giving me a value to look for in my resistor stash.

While poking around it last night, I noticed that there are 2 oddball looking resistors under the yoke with the wires. It looked like they were supposed to be connected to each other on one side (and go in) I couldn't see where the leads led to on the other end. Well the one had broke off on one side.(where they were connected to each other). I'm going to resolder that connection together and see what it does.

Also, anymore tips on testing the yoke/vert transformer? If I test the yoke, do I hook the wires to the +&- of the variac? Or just the positive and other side of the yoke's vert. to a ground? Idk. If I test the vert. output trans I hook the primary to the + of the variav but where do I go with the neg? Honestly I don't know much about this test, still learning as I go with these TV's...Well even with the radio's!

You can use an old line cord to plug into the variac. I put alligator clips on the wire ends. If you remove the B+ from the vertical transformer (usually the red wire coming from the power supply) and connect the variac from the transformer wire going to the tube socket (plate of the tube) with the set powered up, go from zero volts on the variac up slowly. You should get deflection as you increase the voltage from the variac. If the keystone still exists, the yoke is probably bad. This set has a "hot" chassis, be very careful with the variac connections. Do not let them contact the chassis. It looks like it has a power transformer but the transformer is filament only. The B+ comes from a voltage doubler.

according to the schematic, the vertical windings of the yoke have 100 ohm resistors across each winding. If the transformer has never been changed, the wires you would put the variac across are red and blue.

Thanks guy's for the info about the diodes. I didn't realize that when used as rectifiers that ya essentially swap there polarities. ...

It may be easier to visualize when you compare the diode to a vacuum tube rectifier. The end of the diode with the band is the cathode, the other end is the "plate". The cathode of the vacuum tube rectifier is the side that B+ comes from. As seen from the AC source, the power transformer secondary, there are two cathodes in series. One of those cathodes is the rectifier, the other is one or more cathodes of the various tubes doing the audio amps, IF amps, vertical or horiz outputs, and such.

Confusingly, some selenium rectifiers had "+" symbols next to their cathodes. As if to say "Connect this side to your B+ filter caps".

Well, who's got an extra yoke they want to sell....

Thanks for "spelling out" that test procedure for me Zenith26kc20. I appreciate that.

Well I wired in the resistors on the diodes and also disconnect that vert. out. transformer, and hooked it to the variac. I powered the set up, slowly turned the brightness up till I could see a line, then flipped on the variac. Well, when I started applying voltage I noticed the wierd line on the right popped on the screen and(I didn't know how high I should go) I eventually went up to 90 volts with it only growing to about the same size it always has. I didn't want to burn the trans up so I stopped at that 90 and just shut down.

Oh- some good news that I forgot to mention a little while back.
It seems the tuner's at least fine and signal gets where it should. I hooked an old videogame to it just to see what it'd do, and got good sound, and video in what I do have for a picture!

Well, what do y'all think? Did I go high enough with the variac, not high enough?... Where can I get another yoke that would match or just work correctly? Would it be hard to rewind the windings on the yoke? (I've never done anything like that before). Where should I go from here?... Should I just put it back together and just say "the hell with it"?
IDK........

:nutz:UPDATE!!!

I got a new yoke for it. I had to murder the old one to get it off. That thing was also pretty rusty inside as well... Now its extra scrap metal.

Got the new yoke on and put it all back together. Figured out how to hook it up correctly, and got that all done and wholla! I've got a full size rastor.:D

Now... I noticed that it seems to have video sync issues. I'm going to need some help with figuring this out. Other than that, all seems well with it, nice and stable.

I've got the set attached to my SNES in the pic.

Can you get the horizontal bar to roll both ways (up and down) with the vertical hold control? Can you get the horizontal to sync even for a moment by with the horizontal hold control? If the answer to either of those is not then the circuit associated with the control needs more work and or adjustment. If the answer to both is yes go after the AGC and synch seperator stages....Try adjusting the AGC if it synchs with good contrast your good if all it does is change the video level leave it at a setting that gives reasonable video and move on to the synch sep (check it's resistors).

The vertical will need to have it's resistors checked if it can't be rolled both ways with the hold control. If the horizontal can't be flopped both ways first try adjusting the slugs of the osc. transformer (assuming it is a synchroguide circuit)....Get it in synch, and then use a scope to get the peak and hump of the waveform roughly the same height (crucial for stability).....If the osc. can't be adjusted for sync. then check all the resistors in the horizontal.

I can get it to roll either way, and stabalize with the vert.hold control. What you see in the pic though, is the best the horizontal will sync. It'll stay like that,(won't bounce around) but I can't get it to adjust into 1 full image. and I cannot mess with the hh control much, because it'll squeel like crazy if turned more that 1/4 counterclockwize. I always slam it back to the safe range, then because I don't know if that sound equals harm or if it's just emitting the sound... I'll have to check some stuff around there like you suggest.

I dont think my set has AGC...I'll check around the sync seperator some. Honestly I havn't done much 'checking of resistor's.

Should I mess with the osc. trans. if I don't have a scope?

You need to find the horizontal frequency coil and adjust that, the Horizontal Hold control Pot is just a coarse adjustment, there should be a coil somewhere on the chassis connected to the oscillator tube that will bring it into range.

If you have vertical sync. and can't get the horizontal to sync or even a single sideways rolling image, then the sync sep. etc are probably fine.

That osc. squeal means the horizontal osc. frequency is WAY off. Check resistors in the osc. circuit and change any mica caps in the horizontal. If that fails adjust the osc. transformer....There will likely be a O-scope-less procedure in the Sam's for the set for adjusting the osc transformer. It is workable to do it that way, but using a scope will make it much quicker and easier.

If you plan to continue to do TV work, an oscilloscope is going to be necessary eventually or at it will least save you hours of confusion.

Welp, a big thanks to you guy's!!!:banana:

I checked over a bunch of resistors in that circut. Most have drifted up some. I'll probably replace a good number, before i'm all done as they are right above the 20% tolerance.
Also printed out the schematic and had that in front of me. I'm surprised at how many caps were (previously) replaced with values that didn't match.(the schematic)
I don't know if I should switch my replacement's now that are in there, or just leave it as is(I didn't use the schematic to recap, just went by what was inside)

Anyway's I found that adjustment coil, and decided to see what I could do. After several turns clockwise, I could see the images blocked up on top of each other. Kept going and it locked into one full image!:D I then dialed it in with the horiz. hold control and centered it in the control.
Wow, I got a pretty damn good looking picture:cool:....but IT's UPSIDE DOWN!!!lol:wtf: Yoke is positioned correctly...do I have the vertical connections on the yoke miswired??
I also still need to center the picture as well. I notice that it's got a little wave as well and slight geometry issues... And an issue with the best sound and best image not being together with the fine tuning control. Has some buzz and gets quiet when adjusted to best image, and a cruddy looking image when it's adjusted to lowdest sound.

Well I've still got more ahead to do, but that's where i'm at for now.:headscrat

Now some pictures!!

Wow, I got a pretty damn good looking picture:cool:....but IT's UPSIDE DOWN!!!lol:wtf: Yoke is positioned correctly...do I have the vertical connections on the yoke miswired??


And the horizontal connections.

Reverse the vertical wires, and then independently reverse the horizontal wires. Don't cross connect the vert and horiz. Best do the vertical, then test the set, then assuming success (image will look right side up, but mirror reversed) then do the horiz.

Or rotate the yoke so it becomes "upsidedown".

This is important advise for restorers: If a set does not look to have had any hack repairs or work done on it, and a part or parts don't match the schematic GO WITH THE WAY THE SET IS WIRED AND THE PART VALUES IN IT first. Many chassis went through several production changes, not all are documented and there is no way to tell if the schematic is the worse or better version, and that is assuming there are no mistakes in your schematic (I've had mistakes in service literature screw me up a few times now). The only times to make a set match the schematic are in the case of fixing untrustworthy hack-repairman workmanship, and in the case of testing and replacing all parts in a misfunctioning circuit and not curing the issue.....At that point if the schematic shows a different way of making the circuit it is worth a try, BUT make notes of how it was to go back to.....This advice applies to all tube era products IMHO.

Glad to see you got it working (sort of)! Once you get the picture flipped right side up, it looks like you're home free. For your next restoration, take a look at Phil's capacitor replacing page.

http://antiqueradio.org/recap.htm

Towards the bottom, it shows how to restuff an electrolytic can. It takes a little more work, but it's a tidy method. I usually cut the old can open with a pipe cutter and dig the guts out. Then, I just use radial lead electrolytics (the smallest diameter available), drill holes at the bottom of the can for the leads, and put the whole can back in.

Sorry I'm a little late getting to the thread.

Glad to see you got it working (sort of)! Once you get the picture flipped right side up, it looks like you're home free. For your next restoration, take a look at Phil's capacitor replacing page.

http://antiqueradio.org/recap.htm

Towards the bottom, it shows how to restuff an electrolytic can. It takes a little more work, but it's a tidy method. I usually cut the old can open with a pipe cutter and dig the guts out. Then, I just use radial lead electrolytics (the smallest diameter available), drill holes at the bottom of the can for the leads, and put the whole can back in.

Sorry I'm a little late getting to the thread.
On most can caps I've found using a cork screw to remove the old guts (once the can is open or cut off) is a very effective method. :drunk:

Hey guy's. Sorry for dissapearing... been a little busy with other shtuff. Anyway's I got the screen corrected. After I saw wa2ise's post,(on the 30th) I swapped the wires around and the screen looked right. Still have issues to correct, but I decided to play some snes. Nice and stable for the hour, everthing seemed good other than the filiment trans. got real warm. Not hot, but quiet warm. Also had some vertical lines appear on the screen after 10 minutes. Not sharp lines but just 6 or so about an inch apart across the screen that were slightly brighter than the image itself.

Well, I noticed something that I made a mistake with... I had the set running at around 85-90volts... Well when I upped it, (115v) I noticed that the screen got to a better size-actually got a little too big for the 10 inch crt... and the brightness took a dip, like it did before. (started going darker above 90v.) I had to turn that up a little more too look satisfactory. Also noticed the screen geometry issues a little more. T1 (fil.trans.) also now got HOT. Not burning hot but, what I would call hot for a tranformer operating temp.
I haven't touched the set now in a week.

Hey Niko, yea what I did was kind of sloppy. I may still restuff the cans later. I'd rather worry about getting everything good to go, first though.

No pics this time.. that's where its all at.:boring:

Well, I swapped a few resistors and also replaced 2 caps that looked like Mica's but were rated high in the schematic. No real changes that I noticed. Also noticed that the vertical lines appear now right at start up. I need to get a photo for y'all.

Well, i've got this one back in front of me. I ended up putting it back together and out of the way for whatever reason, that im not sure of anymore...Either way, it's been too long.

Anyway's, when I got it back out, I found I have more issues than before. For one, I lost my High Voltage... or at least what is required to get a rastor. I found that a resistor on one of the 1N4007 diode's went open. For now I just took that resistor out of circuit. It's not absolutly necessary right now.

Got HV back, but I have no vertical deflection...Just a horizontal line. That one I can't figure out. I replaced some resistors in the vert circuits, but still have no vertical. Checked a number of other's and cant find any way out or shorted. My tubes are good, and I had it before I put the set away.
Should I swap some of the previously changed caps? I rechecked the vert. transformer and that's still good. What do any of y'all think???

So, it worked (full raster) when you put it away, and then the vertical collapsed when you brought it out and tried it again?

I'd look for a loose or broken connection somewhere. Have you tried wiggling the tubes? Did you ever clean the tube pins & sockets? Did you clean controls (such as vertical hold)? Is it possible that a blob of solder or a snipped wire stub fell into the wrong place and made a short circuit? Eliminate simple/obvious causes like that before you start chasing more exotic issues.

I would not "shotgun" all of the new caps that you installed. Your TV was mostly working before. It's possible for a new part to fail, but that's far from a common scenario.

I would also put back the resistor that you eliminated. Parts are there for a reason.

If your service manual includes a voltage chart, how about checking the voltages on the vertical tubes? Same deal if the manual has a resistance chart.

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

So, it worked (full raster) when you put it away, and then the vertical collapsed when you brought it out and tried it again? Yup

I'd look for a loose or broken connection somewhere. Have you tried wiggling the tubes? Did you ever clean the tube pins & sockets? Did you clean controls (such as vertical hold)? Is it possible that a blob of solder or a snipped wire stub fell into the wrong place and made a short circuit? Eliminate simple/obvious causes like that before you start chasing more exotic issues.I did all of that previously. No blobs of solder...I'm very careful about that.

I would also put back the resistor that you eliminated. Parts are there for a reason. That resistor was not original to the set, and therefore was not even listed in the schematic. It was one of the resistors I put in when I took the celenium rectifiers out and replaced them with diodes.

If your service manual includes a voltage chart, how about checking the voltages on the vertical tubes? Same deal if the manual has a resistance chart.Still haven't gotten to checking voltages while on, but did check resistances. Did not help at all. Everything was off, making me think my schematic is wrong for the set. I expected to find a few values off, but not everything!

I did find the reason though. There is a shielded wire that runs from the vert out. tube to a lug with some caps on it, and I found that the outer shielding of the wire was shorting to the inner. Seperated the two at the end of the wire and BAM! Full deflection back:banana:

Had an interesting few weeks...ah, Jury Duty....Part of being an American! Interesting experience, especially with the Federal...:rolleyes:

Anyway's, finally got back to this thing. It's working again, and a little better than before! Changed some resistors out when I was searching for the issues (previous to today) that I was having. Also found that this 10BP4 is in much better shape than I thought. Set still has issues....which of coarse, i'd appreciate help with:yes:

Well, I explained in the post above, that I got my vert. deflection back. I also solved the previous issue of the set running worse with full voltage, as compared to the 85 volts beforehand. Also readjusted the ion magnet at the end of the crt, because I noticed a shadow on the edge of the pic. Got it adjusted well, and now this thing gets much brighter than It could before, and the set has GREAT contrast with it.

On to the problems I still have. Two things obvious with the image on the screen. During a still shot, there is an obvious, MAJOR wave going on. Like a flag... I also still have that issue with the vertical lines that go down the screen. (I got a few pics that i'll post later.) These lines do disturb the linearity a bit.

On to the other issues that aren't too important, but still odd and could (probably) be made better.
First off, The sound don't match with best pic on this set... It matches with the worst pic. (When it comes to fine tuning.) I tried to get it re-aligned but its a different set up than the other sets that i've had to deal with this situation on.
Second issue, Transformer (T1 on the SAMS schematic) gets HOT after an hour. Hot as in, don't hold it for longer than 15s or it'll burn. I believe this is the filament transformer.
Third issue would be operation of some of the rear controls. Horizontal & Vertical Hold's don't have much range before they lose sync. I've read that some of these earlier Motorola's though, don't have the best of sync.IDK...
I also found that the Horizontal Linearity control is funky too. It acts more like a brightness control that has less range..

Well, that's where I'm at now. I'll get some pics of my vid issues tomorrow.

Got the pics now:yes:...
Anyone know of a good hosting site that won't bog down my computers?:scratch2: Even my newer laptop get's bogged down by photobucket, and I'm going to be running low on space, if I keep posting them to Videokarma...

I switched to flickr once my bucket got full. Seems Flickr has less scripts for adds and junk ware so it should run better....However YMMV depending on the specs, age, and condition of your internet rig.

Flickr huh, i'll give it a try later.

Guy's,... Suggestions???

Well, I changed out some bad resistors and got no change in operation, that I noticed. Probably more to go.

Anybody got a better copy of the schematic? The Sams i'm using from ETF is very blurry in some spots. For example, Looking at my print out compared to it on my pc, I got a wirewound resistor (R90) i'm confused about. On paper it looks like it's 2.5ohm, but on my pc with it zoomed in, it could be 7.5??? Since the one in place was real high, I put a 4ohm wirewound in that I happened to have on hand.

I could also use more voltage diagrams on some of the lines. For example, on C1. The original part is a 140mfd/150v cap. I measured it and voltage fluctuates from 148-151. That seems a little high to me, as I would figure manufacturer's wouldn't want to push there components that close to there maximum's.

Question about that part too. If C1 was bad, would that contribute/cause my pictures' wave? The new cap is a 150MFD/450V unit, and it actually gets warm?! With a voltage rating so much higher than nessisary, I wouldn't think it'd get warm.

I don't see a Sams at the ETF. Do you mean the Motorola service manual ?

Yes, if that cap was defective I think you would have low B+ but probably not ripple. Make sure you have it installed with the correct polarity.

That cap is part of the B+ voltage doubler and has a fair amount of power going through it. Ideally, you want to use a low ESR type rated for high ripple current. That's more important than a high voltage rating in this application.

That keystone looking raster may indicate a faulty yoke. Shorted turns in one of the vertical windings.

Oops. Sorry. Should have read the whole thread. I see you've replaced the yoke.

I don't see a Sams at the ETF. Do you mean the Motorola service manual ?

Yes, if that cap was defective I think you would have low B+ but probably not ripple. Make sure you have it installed with the correct polarity.

That cap is part of the B+ voltage doubler and has a fair amount of power going through it. Ideally, you want to use a low ESR type rated for high ripple current. That's more important than a high voltage rating in this application.
It's kind of hard to find, you have to look for this model of TV. If you look for the chassis "TS-14B" they only have the service manual with it, and that schematic was just as hard to read as well:no:
http://www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/Motorola-TS-23-Sams-92-4.pdf

That cap is installed correctly. You say up above, that if the cap was bad I shouldn't have ripple(is that the technical term for a moving (still) image?). Yet below you mention that the cap should have low ESR(I don't know the specs when it comes to that) for high ripple current.
If that has high ripple current going through it, how would it not get past the cap, if the cap were bad?

Hey guy's, I found that I still have a few caps that look like wax paper caps, but are real low value. Lower than what I have for the standard replacements. 2 are in the tuner circuits and 1 is elsewhere. I'll get a pic up in a bit, but should these be replaced like normal value caps?
Could they be causing any of my current issues?

C1 and C2A form a voltage doubler for the B+. They are constantly charging and discharging. See how C1 is going directly to the AC line ? All the B+ power for the set is pumped through that cap. That's why having a low ESR is important.

If either cap is bad, they would not fully charge up and B+ would drop.

It's the speaker field coil and C3A that are more responsible for filtering out B+ ripple.

ah. Huh, well then my B+ sounds like it should be ok. It'd be nice if the schematic stated what its supposed to be...


Got the pics of those caps. They are listed as A. I also marked 2 other kinds that I'm unsure of. I've seen them before, but never really put much thought towards them and don't know whether to trust them or not.

Didn't say your B+ was OK, just explaining how the power supply works. That cap shouldn't be getting warm.

That is a 7.5 ohm fusible resistor. They were commonly used to protect the selenium rectifiers from a surge on power up as well as act as a fuse for the B+. The value isn;t critial but you may want to increase it a bit if you replaced the seleniums with silicon diodes. Silicon is more efficient and will raise the B+.

While the Sams doesn't state the B+ right at C2, they do list many other voltages. If they are close, I'd say your B+ is OK.

Those are ceramic caps and rarely go bad. Don't mess with them.

I read that you had the diodes in backwards at first. If C1 and/or C2A are getting warm I would change out the diodes just in case one was damaged with the high current draw from being backwards. I would start over with fresh caps and diodes. I would also check the field coil on the speaker for any short to ground or low resistance. I don't think the sams had an ohm reading for it maybe the original one does. If it has a partial short to itself it won't filter the B+ correctly and cause "hum bars" in the picture. How is the sound? if you can't get much volume out of it that could be a sign of a bad field coil.

Didn't say your B+ was OK, just explaining how the power supply works. That cap shouldn't be getting warm.

That is a 7.5 ohm fusible resistor. They were commonly used to protect the selenium rectifiers from a surge on power up as well as act as a fuse for the B+. The value isn;t critial but you may want to increase it a bit if you replaced the seleniums with silicon diodes. Silicon is more efficient and will raise the B+.

While the Sams doesn't state the B+ right at C2, they do list many other voltages. If they are close, I'd say your B+ is OK.

Those are ceramic caps and rarely go bad. Don't mess with them.I was just figuring B+ should be around where its supposed to be. With how the set operates. I think I will swap that cap...again. This will be the 3rd time.
After I check some values at the tubes, i'll decide on whether or not to change that resistor's value. I'll probably go up to a 10ohm on it. Would it be good to find another fuseable resistor?
I'll leave them caps alone for now.

I read that you had the diodes in backwards at first. If C1 and/or C2A are getting warm I would change out the diodes just in case one was damaged with the high current draw from being backwards. I would start over with fresh caps and diodes. I would also check the field coil on the speaker for any short to ground or low resistance. I don't think the sams had an ohm reading for it maybe the original one does. If it has a partial short to itself it won't filter the B+ correctly and cause "hum bars" in the picture. How is the sound? if you can't get much volume out of it that could be a sign of a bad field coil.
No big deal to swap diodes, but they did test out good when I switched them the way they should be. hmm, I may have even changed them back then though...don't remember the best since that was about a year and a half ago.
Back when I blew the one cap, I changed out that other one that got warm. Ive also since, swapped some of the caps and simplified things, from how those previous pictures look.
The field coil is fine, no shorts in the speaker. Sound is great as long as the finetuning is set with the picture looking it's worst....:no:

Well, I couldn't find my tube condition chart that I previously made when I started this. I knew I replaced a few tubes in the set, but what one's, I can not remember.:scratch2: So, I went over all of them again and found some issues. First off, V5(3rd-vid-IF) had the wrong tube.:drool: huh, don't know how I missed that. Could that cause one of my issues, particularly the sound issue? It had a 6AG5WA, when it should have another 6AU6. I also found V4 is shorted out on pins 5 and 7. I've got a bunch of 6AU6's on the way. Seems everything I come across that uses them, those tubes are usually weak.
Also found V9(AF.amp) is weak, so I got a 6J5GT on the way too.

Well, that's where I'm at so far. Haven't done too much with it the last few days. Been working on a number of other things.

Well....I've now changed out those diodes and the cap that was warming up. Also changed R90 to 10ohm. That did lower B+ voltage a bit. don't remember numbers at the moment. I'm thinkin it was at 257v(or was it 157?...) coming out of the one diode, that then leads to the speaker's field coil.
Also swapped that wrong tube out. NO CHANGES in operation, and the new E-Cap I just put in warms up just like the last one! You cant tell me all these 150mfd/450v caps are bad?
I did check other voltages, but for whatever reason I didn't write them down. What I do remember is that they were off from what the schematic claims. I'm starting to think more and more that this schematic isn't for my set.