Hello all!

I just recently acquired my first console set! It is a 1958 RCA CTC-7 in the "Pensbury" cabinet. I acquired this set for free from Tvcollector here at VK. The drive took two and a half hours but it was well worth it for such a nice set for the price of free. The 21CYP22 tests great on all guns but the base is in rough shape and I am honestly too afraid to try and put a new base on. The base still functions but it is pretty loose... The cabinet is in VERY rough shape... Will probably have to strip it and stain it and refinish it. As for the electronics most of the caps are still kind of ok and some minor repairs have been done but the set does power up and I get a raster but the horizontal and vertical are all wrong so I will recap those boards first. I did accidentally break the horiz hold knob while trying to remove the chassis so I will have to fabricate a new plastic shaft for the knob to fit on. Only two tubes tested bad in the set and I will replace them... The flyback looks to be in great condition. I think I will have a lot of fun restoring this set and it will be a learning experience for me. I will take my time with this and do it step by step. I will post updates when needed. Here is the link for the images I have taken of the set http://imgur.com/a/oTaRJ

Here is the link for the imagesLink says:

"SwizzyMan's images are not publicly available."

Phil Nelson

Link says:

"SwizzyMan's images are not publicly available."

Phil Nelson

Fixed it thanks for letting me know

yikes! that CRT tube socket. Hope you don't have to remove the yoke anytime soon.

yikes! that CRT tube socket. Hope you don't have to remove the yoke anytime soon.

yup... I am terrified to even put my tester socket on it much less the actual socket from the TV.

I wonder if epoxy could hold that socket together better then the hobby glue I'm seeing?

I wonder if epoxy could hold that socket together better then the hobby glue I'm seeing?

I do have some and might try doing that

my recommendation is do nothing to the crt socket, except maybe some electrical tape to stabilize if for now. Get the set working, worry about the CRT later.

my recommendation is do nothing to the crt socket, except maybe some electrical tape to stabilize if for now. Get the set working, worry about the CRT later.

My sentiments exactly. I don't know what type CRT is in your set, but if it's a rare one, I'd tape the socket so it won't move, as DaveWM suggested, and forget it for the time being, as long as you are restoring the TV. I had a bad experience with a CRT in a Philco "Microgrid 390" TV I rescued from a curb years ago. The socket came completely off the neck of the CRT, so I just soldered the leads from the TV chassis to the wires protruding from the neck. It worked for a short time, but eventually one of the wires broke off, shorted to another lead, there was a good sized spark, and ...

I wound up junking the set soon after that, as I was in no position at the time to look around for a used tube. Too bad, since the Microgrid series was one of Philco's best b&w TVs of the 1950s, with a cascode tuner and an excellent sound system. I was surprised the set didn't have a phonograph pickup input on the rear of the chassis--that's how good the sound was. I had a Zenith K-2739 1963 b&w 23" TV with a good audio system as well, but that set did not have a phono input either; why, I'll never know, since the set had a 6BN6 gated-beam audio stage, 6BQ5 output and a 6x9 oval speaker in the base of the cabinet, below the CRT. That TV easily had the best mono sound system of any set I owned before or since then, although today it is possible to connect a flat-panel TV to a stereo system and have better sound than even the best mono TV audio systems produced 50-60 years ago.

if it is the original tube...it should be a 21CYP22 and those are NOT real common !! I agree...wrap several layers of tape around it and get it secured. Get the set working good and THEN...maybe worry about the base. I had a CTC-5 with a tube with a similar base ...and it ALSO had like--new readings on ALL tests--life, emissions, cutoff AND gun balance. I was just VERY careful with it....it was fine..

UNLIKE..the last 21AXP22 set I came across. that base was PERFECT...but the tube was STILL full of AIR... shame--since it HAD shown good supposdely--the last time the set ran...about 40 years ago or so !! I guess all of that "idle time in a basement"....took its toll on the seals.

I ALSO have a number of thsoe Zenith sets...with 6BQ5 audio amp and a couple of them have a 10" speaker and an electrostatic tweeter I believe !! I expect the size of the OPT and B+ on the tube means it could give about 5 watts of power or so...not sure it is really enough to push that big speaker to its full potential though. ONE of them is a 23" set with a weak tube and it WILL produce a raster ...b ut there are bad caps and something is smoking near the cap by the 6BQ5. The other one is a 24" set with a decent tube accd. to my 70. It preduces a pretty good raster....with some foldover--and a big cap by the tranny is geting warm...so I know it TOO needs caps. Both are 1958 sets I beleive..one is an SC400.

I have a couple of others wiht the 6X9 speaker and 6BQ5 amp. I KNOW they have very good sound !!

My sentiments exactly. I don't know what type CRT is in your set, but if it's a rare one, I'd tape the socket so it won't move, as DaveWM suggested, and forget it for the time being, as long as you are restoring the TV. I had a bad experience with a CRT in a Philco "Microgrid 390" TV I rescued from a curb years ago. The socket came completely off the neck of the CRT, so I just soldered the leads from the TV chassis to the wires protruding from the neck. It worked for a short time, but eventually one of the wires broke off, shorted to another lead, there was a good sized spark, and ...

I wound up junking the set soon after that, as I was in no position at the time to look around for a used tube. Too bad, since the Microgrid series was one of Philco's best b&w TVs of the 1950s, with a cascode tuner and an excellent sound system. I was surprised the set didn't have a phonograph pickup input on the rear of the chassis--that's how good the sound was. I had a Zenith K-2739 1963 b&w 23" TV with a good audio system as well, but that set did not have a phono input either; why, I'll never know, since the set had a 6BN6 gated-beam audio stage, 6BQ5 output and a 6x9 oval speaker in the base of the cabinet, below the CRT. That TV easily had the best mono sound system of any set I owned before or since then, although today it is possible to connect a flat-panel TV to a stereo system and have better sound than even the best mono TV audio systems produced 50-60 years ago.

The CRT is a 21CYP22 not too common these days.

This is the same set that's in this thread.. I only had it since November of last year... I must have plugged the CRT tester into the CRT about a 100 times.. I used two jewelry screw drivers to pry off each time, seeing how some of the CRT cap is missing..

http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=263008

Go to Harbor Freight and pick up their cheap 2 part epoxy in squeeze tubes. Works wonders on CRT sockets. I just pieced back together one on a 21YP4 and it holds like iron.

Nice score! My CTC7 is one of my favorite sets. Looking forward to seeing your restoration.

the general conscience is there is no conscience.

Some like epoxy, some like silicone (wire safe), some like super glue (I used the flex zap in the past), some like white glue... it goes on and on and on.

Hence my recommendation to simply wrap some electrical tape around it to stablize, get the set working, then you can spend time researching what you think is the best approach. The issue I see you have is the sloppy work already done may make removal a iffy thing. And you don't want to follow up that sloppy work with more perm glue that will just make it harder to do right at some point in the future.

often times LESS is MORE in tv work. this is why untouched sets are prized over "restorations" unless the restoration is done by someone that really is good at it.
Clearly this was not the case with your CRT socket. This is why I tend to advise against excessive cleaning as well. there are delicate parts that are aged and easy to destroy with a blast of compressed air (like the peaking coils in GE sets), or parts get cracked from over zealous cleaning attempts. Rarely does cleaning fix a non working set or make a set work better. there are exceptions but rare, it would need to be a conductive goo in the exact wrong place to cause an issue.

Clean enough to read the parts and make a decent visual inspection IF there is a problem, you are not going to be eating off the tv chassis. If you want a museum quality restoration that is different. There are guys around that do fantastic work and make sets look like new, but for a 1st time color tv chassis I would recommend handling it as little as possible.

As for the CRT at some point you may have to address it (like if you had to replace the yoke), right now its a non issue to get it working, just don't do more damage to it than already done.

the general conscience is there is no conscience.

Some like epoxy, some like silicone (wire safe), some like super glue (I used the flex zap in the past), some like white glue... it goes on and on and on.

Hence my recommendation to simply wrap some electrical tape around it to stablize, get the set working, then you can spend time researching what you think is the best approach. The issue I see you have is the sloppy work already done may make removal a iffy thing. And you don't want to follow up that sloppy work with more perm glue that will just make it harder to do right at some point in the future.

often times LESS is MORE in tv work. this is why untouched sets are prized over "restorations" unless the restoration is done by someone that really is good at it.
Clearly this was not the case with your CRT socket.
At some point you may have to address it (like if you had to replace the yoke), right now its a non issue to get it working, just don't do more damage to it than already done.

Yeah I'll just electrical tape it for now. Heh, maybe you could stop by and help out.

the general conscience is there is no conscience.

Consensus?

.

Consensus?

.

I never was a good speller. but yes Consensus is what I was going for.

Looking forward to seeing it running, whatever you do. Keep us posted.

after recapping check to see if the raster is filling out the screen. You have to be careful with all the whack formats that are out there now. You need to make sure you have a good 4:3 format. If the raster is filling out the screen, and then you get bars on the blanking bars on the top and bottom or sides, then its prob the video format. Post of some pics or better video of your progress.

Went ahead and recorded a video addressing my current issue with the set. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSkjb6RyOfs

Looks like it's losing horz sync.. I would check to see what the current is at that cathode of the horz output tube.. Should be around 200ma range... Something I should have done before smoking the fly in my Magnavox set..

Checked everything. All readings normal and I am pretty sure I fixed it. Now the question is how do I get the colors right? And the purity and convergence the best I can WITHOUT a pattern generator.

Purity you can do without a pattern generator.. Lower both green and blue drives on a station that is not coming in (Just Fuzz), and then once you have the yoke adjusted, you'll have to switch to a TV program to level all three drives.. If you can find a station that is letter box, you can go by the color of the bars on the top/bottom to level the grey scale.. I think there is a place to where you can download a DVD of the patterns... Convergence you'll need the patterns and using the cross hatch pattern is the best for that, or at least for me it is..

Purity you can do without a pattern generator.. Lower both green and blue drives on a station that is not coming in (Just Fuzz), and then once you have the yoke in the best place, you'll have to switch to a TV program to level all three drives.. If you can fine a station with the letter box you can go by the color of the bars on the top/bottom.. It's harder to do that way, but can be done.. I think there is a place to where you can download a DVD of the patterns... Convergence you'll need to patterns and using the cross hatch pattern is the best for that, or at least for me it is..

So dont I do it until the screen is completely red?

To perform purity on a set, you'll need to start with red and also degauss the tube before you start... Pull the yoke back and adjust the purity rings until you get the red blotch in the middle of the screen then push the yoke forward again and see if red fills the screen without any fading...

Shango has videos that are helpful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNtsTKVPO7I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AWG61TAIHg

To perform purity on a set, you'll need to start with red and also degauss the tube before you start... Pull the yoke back and adjust the purity rings until you get the red blotch in the middle of the screen then push the yoke forward again and see if red fills the screen without any fading...

Shango has videos that are helpful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNtsTKVPO7I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AWG61TAIHg

Ugh, I dont have a degaussing coil.

Ugh, I dont have a degaussing coil.

Then buy or make one. http://videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=264048

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNtsTKVPO7I

at about 7:00 it talks about setting up purity.

Before doing anything else I recommend you look on ebay for an RCA color service manual by carl babcoke.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/RCA-COLOR-TV-SERVICE-MANUAL-CARL-BABCOKE-1971/371347723643?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D20140620075055%26meid%3D166cbaaa838b4f06b92 11961ba6c7872%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26 sd%3D311360906136

oh and start looking for a degaussing coil.

there are height and lin adjustments as well as a vert centering adj. All of those are used in setting up the correct sweep.

The book I mentioned covers this. There is a correct process in setting up a set, needs to be done in order. a quick summary goes like this

set height and lin using test pattern.

degauss crt

purity setup

center converge with dots from test pattern

dynamic converge with grid from test pattern

oh one more thing, that RCA service manual does NOT cover the CTC-7 chassis, think it starts with CTC-12, as far as schematics are concerned.

BUT it has great info on CRT setup as well as explanation on how various circuits in the set work. The CTC-7 is very similar in operation as the CTC-12 so the info is still valid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNtsTKVPO7I

at about 7:00 it talks about setting up purity.

Before doing anything else I recommend you look on ebay for an RCA color service manual by carl babcoke.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/RCA-COLOR-TV-SERVICE-MANUAL-CARL-BABCOKE-1971/371347723643?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D20140620075055%26meid%3D166cbaaa838b4f06b92 11961ba6c7872%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26 sd%3D311360906136

oh and start looking for a degaussing coil.
I just picked up the book. Is there any way I could make my own degaussing coil or use one from a modern day tv?

Also just picked up a leader lcg-400 so hopefully it works when it gets here and I can finally do the convergence and color adjustments correctly. :D

Is there any way I could make my own degaussing coilYes. This thread popped up recently:

http://videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=264048

You only need to degauss an old color TV the first time you do the color setup, or possibly when you move it later on. Changing its position in Earth's magnetic field can result in purity problems. My favorite example was my first CTC-11. I had spent hours doing the color setup and thought the picture looked decent:

http://antiqueradio.org/art/RCACTC-11InCabinet.jpg

Then I moved it to a new place in the house, rotated about 90 degrees from the position in which I did the setup. Dorothy's face turned green! And the yellow brick road turned orange and purple around the edges.

http://antiqueradio.org/art/RCACTC-11PurityRedux2.jpg

http://antiqueradio.org/art/RCACTC-11PurityRedux3.jpg

Degaussing fixed the problem in about 60 seconds.

Newer color TVs have automatic degaussers that operate briefly when you turn the set on, but that's a convenience feature. Unless you constantly haul your roundies around the house, degaussing should be a once-in-a-blue-moon procedure.

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAk9lKv03zA

1:30 covers standard fine tuning. at about 3:45 you can see how the pic can be B&W if not fine tuned right.

Fine tuning did nothing... I am really confused as to what exactly is wrong.

make sure you are on the correct channel.

channel 3 correct?

3 or 4 are often the ouputs.

check the fuses for blown power supply after sparking the HV

3 or 4 are often the ouputs.

check the fuses for blown power supply after sparking the HV

Both fuses are blown hopefully that is all that went wrong...

how do you know you lost HV? did you check with a probe?

exactly what happened, would be good to know the sequence of events.

how do you know you lost HV? did you check with a probe?

exactly what happened, would be good to know the sequence of events.

Probed it... Nothing and dont hear the high pitched whine. So I noticed my horizontal wasnt right so I tried adjusting the hold. No luck. So then I tried adjusting the horizontal centering, Fixed it until I took my screwdriver out. When I was pulling it out the screw for the adjustments broke off and I got a large purple/blue spark. The HV immediately died. Tried turning it on again nothing. Pulled the chassis back out of the cabinet. Saw the two blown fuses thought it was that apparently not. Then I saw that the power supply fuse was blown and I think that maybe could have caused the problem. Opened up the cage and didnt see any visual damage except for the broken plastic screw that I was trying to adjust.

the horz adj pot has a plastic knob so that should have done nothing.
were you using metal screwdriver? touch the pot and chassis with the metal shaft?

the horz adj pot has a plastic knob so that should have done nothing.
were you using metal screwdriver? touch the pot and chassis with the metal shaft?

Forgot to mention yes my screwdriver slipped when It broke.

you measure no HV at the CRT anode (or metal 3A3 tube socket housing)?

you measure no HV at the CRT anode (or metal 3A3 tube socket housing)?

Yes absolutely nothing

Forgot to mention yes my screwdriver slipped when It broke.

Ok for starters only use plastic or FG tools working around HV cage.

You prob blew the damper, Try a new damper tube.

Ok for starters only use plastic or FG tools working around HV cage.

You prob blew the damper, Try a new damper tube.

By blown you mean the filament is blown? Because it still lights.

switched the 6au4 with a 6ax4 dont think they are compatible subs

Set off

Remove the horz out tube from the socket.

disconnect the plate lead from the tube.

put a DC volt meter on the plate lead (+) and the neg to chassis.

Set on should be about 400vdc

Set off

Remove the horz out tube from the socket.

disconnect the plate lead from the tube.

put a DC volt meter on the plate lead (+) and the neg to chassis.

Set on should be about 400vdc

First time I got only 17 volts then all my other attempts were zero

ok now just trace back until you find the 400v

look for burned coils if nothing at the pin 5 of the damper

also make sure you still have B+, if the damper was shorted you may have blown the B+ fuse again.

use the correct fueses.

ok now just trace back until you find the 400v

What exactly do you mean? check soldering connections and my caps?

check B+ at fuse

ok now just trace back until you find the 400v

look for burned coils if nothing at the pin 5 of the damper

also make sure you still have B+, if the damper was shorted you may have blown the B+ fuse again.

use the correct fueses.

There is a power supply fuse that I mentioned that is blown and I am guessing that MAY be the problem..

do you have the schematic?

if the fuse is blown then that is the problem.
Get the correct fuse put a good damper in and try again.

if the fuse is blown then that is the problem.
Get the correct fuse put a good damper in and try again.

That what I was thinking... Thanks so much Dave! Dont know what I would do without you. I will replace the fuse tomorrow and I will hope for the best.

Got the HV back and was able to acquire a leader lcg-400 fully working for $60. Now I feel as my horizontal and vertical hold have gotten worse with the patterns displayed even though I have recapped both the vertical and the horizontal board... I am also getting barber polling when I turn the color knob all the way up and fine tune. What is wrong here? Do I need to recap the boards or should I recap the main chassis? Here are the pictures http://i.imgur.com/iZtVJZt.jpg http://i.imgur.com/M9VCUjn.jpg http://i.imgur.com/fOMxSXN.jpg

Looks like there still could be issues with the vertical.. As for the swirlyness in certain areas of the pic, that could possibly be the Leader pattern generator.. Those things usually need to be recapped to function properly.. I have one also that's a bit touchy.. The convergence is off quite a bit I see..

Looks like there still could be issues with the vertical.. As for the swirlyness in certain areas of the pic, that could possibly be the Leader pattern generator.. Those things usually need to be recapped to function properly.. I have one also that's a bit touchy.. The convergence it off quit a bit I see..

Well I hooked up the leader to my flatscreen and my 8-pt-7032T and there were no issues whatsoever. But I guess I should try replacing some resistors maybe or just replace everything in the vertical board?

work one issue at a time. start with linearity/vert height. the two controls are interactive, so you have to go back and forth between them.

The wiggle at the top is being exaggerated by the linearity issue.

remaining wiggle maybe could be the generator but you want to work one issue at a time.

after you get the height/lin controls worked out, you can try adj the horz hold and see if that helps with the wiggle or any remaining hooking at the top.

if it does not you may need to look a the sync separator or the horz anti hunt network, more on those later.

Well I hooked up the leader to my flatscreen and my 8-pt-7032T and there were no issues whatsoever. But I guess I should try replacing some resistors maybe or just replace everything in the vertical board?

def do NOT replace everything on the vert board until you have tried the adjustments AND tube swapping.

Yes you may need to replace some parts, but best to do one thing at a time with starting with the least invasive.

If that does not work then you want to look at the type of cap, not all are prone to failure. Resistors have to be way off before you start getting issues. I rarely find them to be the issue EXCEPT the plate load resistor that are connected to the boost voltage in the vert. since this is your 1st set IF it comes to that, you should only replace one or two parts at a time. there are a couple in the osc circuit that can be critical, but generally only need to be deal with if the adjustment pots can not bring into working range.

def do NOT replace everything on the vert board until you have tried the adjustments AND tube swapping.

Yes you may need to replace some parts, but best to do one thing at a time with starting with the least invasive.

If that does not work then you want to look at the type of cap, not all are prone to failure. Resistors have to be way off before you start getting issues. I rarely find them to be the issue EXCEPT the plate load resistor that are connected to the boost voltage in the vert. since this is your 1st set IF it comes to that, you should only replace one or two parts at a time.

well I did replace all the browndrops and one HV cap on the vert and I replaced both 6aq5a's with their military counterpart 9005. But it was a lot worse before I recapped.

Messed with the linearity and centering and this is what I got http://i.imgur.com/ydnXUyy.jpg

linearity still way off. did you work both the height and lin controls, they work together. this is not digital style adjustments, you have to work them both and they interact. My guess is your are running out of height and trying to fill the screen with linearity.

if you seem to lack vert height, check for a 1 meg resistor on the vert height control pot. this should go from there to the boost supply.

look for a 1.8 meg resistor on the vert PCB, both this and the 1.0 meg can be checked in circuit (they are isolated by caps or tubes).

I don't recall but see if there is a paper cap .047 off the 10k resistor from the BB term of the fly (should be on the bottom of the chassis). check that resistor and replace that cap if its a paper. If its a disk its prob ok.

linearity still way off. did you work both the height and lin controls, they work together. this is not digital style adjustments, you have to work them both and they interact. My guess is your are running out of height and trying to fill the screen with linearity.

Yeah I'm pretty clueless right now :(

if you seem to lack vert height, check for a 1 meg resistor on the vert height control pot. this should go from there to the boost supply.

look for a 1.8 meg resistor on the vert PCB, both this and the 1.0 meg can be checked in circuit (they are isolated by caps or tubes).

I don't recall but see if there is a paper cap .047 off the 10k resistor from the BB term of the fly (should be on the bottom of the chassis). check that resistor and replace that cap if its a paper. If its a disk its prob ok.

Will take it back out tomorrow and poke around some more.

I would definitely not replace everything that you already replaced on the vertical board. If you look at this article, you'll see exactly which caps I replaced on that board, along with the Sams diagram of the board:

http://antiqueradio.org/RCACTC-7ColorTelevision.htm

I basically replaced all of the "maroon drops" as well as any bumblebee caps.

Height and linearity controls work together, and they affect each other somewhat. Try making the picture too large vertically with the height control. Then adjust the linearity control to make the top and bottom squares more equal. Then readjust the height control to make it a little smaller. Then adjust the linearity control again. By going back and forth, making small changes, soon you'll get an idea how these controls affect each other and you should be able to get a screen with normal linearity.

If you still can't get good linearity (and a screen that is filled vertically), then it is time to look at other components in the vertical circuits -- AFTER you double-check all of your replacements on that board to make sure that you didn't accidentally install a cap of the wrong value.

It's possible you'll want to replace more caps on the main chassis, but that's a question for another day. That chassis contains the color circuitry and the gospel is that you worry about color AFTER you have obtained a normal black and white picture.

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

I would definitely not replace everything that you already replaced on the vertical board. If you look at this article, you'll see exactly which caps I replaced on that board, along with the Sams diagram of the board:

http://antiqueradio.org/RCACTC-7ColorTelevision.htm

I basically replaced all of the "maroon drops" as well as any bumblebee caps.

Height and linearity controls work together, and they affect each other somewhat. Try making the picture too large vertically with the height control. Then adjust the linearity control to make the top and bottom squares more equal. Then readjust the height control to make it a little smaller. Then adjust the linearity control again. By going back and forth, making small changes, soon you'll get an idea how these controls affect each other and you should be able to get a screen with normal linearity.

If you still can't get good linearity (and a screen that is filled vertically), then it is time to look at other components in the vertical circuits -- AFTER you double-check all of your replacements on that board to make sure that you didn't accidentally install a cap of the wrong value.

It's possible you'll want to replace more caps on the main chassis, but that's a question for another day. That chassis contains the color circuitry and the gospel is that you worry about color AFTER you have obtained a normal black and white picture.

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

I did what you did I replaced all the maroon drops and one high voltage cap.

Turned it on again this morning and was preparing to follow Phil's instructions when I heard a loud Pop! My guess is it was either a cap,a resistor,or the piece of foil I used to make one end of the fuse make contact with the metal contact. Nothing was affected by it it seems. No loss of HV no loss of picture no loss of the already garbage horizontal hold. But of course I immediately pulled the plug. Should I take the chassis back out and inspect or should I continue considering nothing seemed to be damaged?

No matter what I do I cant get the screen to fill completely with the height control and I cant get anything symmetrical with the linearity adjustment. I am confused as to how they work together because Ive tried everything.

check the resistors I mentioned.
check pin voltages of vert tubes.

check the resistors I mentioned.
check pin voltages of vert tubes.

Alright will do... The horizontal hold is so incredibly bad. What should I check in that section?

if you seem to lack vert height, check for a 1 meg resistor on the vert height control pot. this should go from there to the boost supply.

look for a 1.8 meg resistor on the vert PCB, both this and the 1.0 meg can be checked in circuit (they are isolated by caps or tubes).

I don't recall but see if there is a paper cap .047 off the 10k resistor from the BB term of the fly (should be on the bottom of the chassis). check that resistor and replace that cap if its a paper. If its a disk its prob ok.

The .047 is coming off the vert height pot and is a browndrop

check the 1.0meg and the 1.8meg read back values. If it was mine I would prob replace the .047 cap (boost filter) just to protect the flyback. I would use a 1kv while as was at it.

Getting about 1.48 megs on the 1 meg resistor

what is the HV?what about the 1.8 meg? and the 10k from the BB to the 1 meg.

1.8 meg is fluctuating from 1.7 to 1.9 to 1.8

Way too high! Whenever I replace vertical section resistors I use larger wattage if they will fit and look right. If it is a 1/2 watt I use 1 watt. Vertical parts take a pounding from the waveforms and break down the resistors. RCA ran the vertical hot on the side chassis sets.

you might have to take the 10k out of circuit to test. Not sure I understand the flux reading on the 1.8 should be steady. the 1.0 being high may be a prob but you should have enough height adj to compensate if that is the only thing off.

before replacing a bunch of parts you should take voltage readings and try new tubes.

oh and number one thing to check would be the B+. Maker sure you are getting the correct line voltage in and the correct B+ coming out. If the set uses 5U4's try a fresh one or two of those.

you might have to take the 10k out of circuit to test. Not sure I understand the flux reading on the 1.8 should be steady. the 1.0 being high may be a prob but you should have enough height adj to compensate if that is the only thing off.

before replacing a bunch of parts you should take voltage readings and try new tubes.

10k is reading 14k

oh and number one thing to check would be the B+. Maker sure you are getting the correct line voltage in and the correct B+ coming out. If the set uses 5U4's try a fresh one or two of those.

This one doesnt use 5u4's but there is a bumblebee right at the ac interlock

hard to say since I don't know what you are doing with the pots. It "could" be the issue (lack of vert) but I have seen much larger drifting and still be ok. if you had been off like 10x then for sure.

check the tube voltages, try tube subbing and get back to me on the B+ voltages.

This one doesnt use 5u4's but there is a bumblebee right at the ac interlock

cut out the bumble bee if its still in the circuit, if its across the line you dont have to worry about replacing it right now.

One of the filter caps now starts to get warm... But it is next to a cluster of tubes so maybe the heat from the tubes might make it warm?

B+ is 204v out of 270V

should be close to 400v right at the fuse.

you are using the correct fuses right?

should be close to 400v right at the fuse.

you are using the correct fuses right?

Yes Oh I was measuring a filter cap terminal. I am new to some of this so please bear with me.

if the orig filter caps are still in, then there is a good chance they are leaky dragging the B+ down. The B+ readings help in this regard but there are other things that can drag down the B+

the cans are only near signal tubes, it would take a while to radiate enough heat from them, so it is quite possible you have a problem there.

there is also a rather large decoupling cap off the vert out primary, while not part of the power supply it certainly can be an issue.

If the B+ is suspect you should check the filter cans with a proper old school cap tester. If you do not have one of those its prob wiser to just go ahead and restuff them.

this is the method I recommend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh2yurjt5sM

they maybe ok, but without the correct tester its hard to tell. If the B+ is ok (the 382v and the 270v) then they are prob ok.

I just like to find the problem and replace the part as needed rather than shot gunning. You learn more that way.

the method in the video is good since it leaves all the wire dress alone as well as the parts that are often soldered directly to the can terminals.

I can do a 4 section can in prob 10min. others use term strips but the prob there is if its done wrong it just makes it harder for the next guy to figure it out. Same with tacking caps in various places, yes it can work but its hard to follow IF it does not work.

well from what I think im getting the 270 is only 204v and i was getting this off of the hot filter cap so I think I will need to restuff them. Ugh :sigh:

maybe, but since this set uses a doubler (no 5U4) you really MUST check the 400v side. if those 160uf caps are weak the B+ will be weak.

if the 400v side is ok, then that 1600ohm resistor must be getting smoking hot (connects the 400v to the 270v, another 70v drop would make it get real hot.

Also, what causes barber polling?

maybe, but since this set uses a doubler (no 5U4) you really MUST check the 400v side. if those 160uf caps are weak the B+ will be weak.

Where would that even be located I tried what I thougt it was on the other filter cap and I got a loud pop and spark nothing was hurt though just scared me to death.

restuffing is easy, but you should practice on something before tackling the tv.

restuffing is easy, but you should practice on something before tackling the tv.

Really dont have anything I could practice on.

There are different methods for replacing electrolytics and they don't all amount to restuffing. My recapping article (http://antiqueradio.org/recap.htm) has links to articles that illustrate various ways to skin the cat.

In my CTC-7 article is an explanation of how I left the original can bases intact and mounted the new electrolytics on them, as shown here:

http://antiqueradio.org/art/RCACTC-7CansReady.jpg

Basically, you saw off the old can, drill little holes next to each terminal, slide the new cap leads down through the holes, and connect them up. If you don't care how the TV looks, you can stop there.

If you care about original appearance, you can pull the innards out of the old cans and epoxy them back on to enclose the new caps. In this case, I recommend that you leave the cans off until you have finished your restoration and you know that you won't need to change any power-supply wiring (or even read the values on the new caps to assure yourself that you didn't install a wrong value).

Phil Nelson

Thanks Phil. Will do! I did go in and replace some toasty looking caps in the chassis for good measure. Hopefully that might have helped a bit.

Ok there is a bit of improvement. The picture almost entirely fills the screen now and the horizontal hold is a bit better. But the colors are less vibrant and the focus is a bit worse. But the vertical hold and linearity are still horrendous.

I agree with Dave and Phil, cutting the cans like that makes it easier.. You can always use a little epoxy to remount the can, and probably a good wack will crack them open again if someone needs to get in them again.. I restuffed the cans for the first time on my GE set and I thought I did a wonderful job, I also watched alot of Bob's, Dave's, and Shango's videos on youtube before I even started restoring, so some things just came naturally...

Don't expect much from the CTC-7 chassis before you've completely recapped the vertical and horizontal section, along with the power supply. Mine had wax dripping out of every single one, a sure sign they have bought the farm.

Would it be a good idea to try convergence and purity now? Or should I recap more?

Don't waste your time on color adjustments until you have a perfect (well, good enough to satisfy you long-term) black and white picture. Nice contrast and focus, correct vertical and horizontal linearity, etc.

Phil Nelson

I am very inclined to just shotgun replace everything but the ceramic caps in the horizontal and vertical boards. Resistors included.

you never responded about the 400v side only the 270v (204v).
You need to respond to each of my questions, in order, otherwise it is very hard to diagnose. I am asking these questions for specific reasons.

While its ok to shot gun replace paper caps, it is rarely needed for resistors.

You need to stay on track answer the questions as asked, then make the corrective actions in the order given. If not its pointless to ask for help.

Ceramic disk caps usually don't fail.. And it's only a handful of resistors that fail.. Shot gunning components that don't need to be replaced only gives you a higher chance of messing something else up.. Some people may choose to replace the electrolytic cans even if they are fine, and some people even replace the film orange drop caps on the critical area such as the sweep board.. Going and trying to replace every component in a set is not a good idea at all...

you never responded about the 400v side only the 270v (204v).
You need to respond to each of my questions, in order, otherwise it is very hard to diagnose. I am asking these questions for specific reasons.

While its ok to shot gun replace paper caps, it is rarely needed for resistors.

You need to stay on track answer the questions as asked, then make the corrective actions in the order given. If not its pointless to ask for help.

Oh yes sorry I will check that asap.

another helpful tool in remote diagnosis is pictures. lots of pictures, pictures are worth a 1000 words. that way I can see what you are working with, the condition of the parts, etc.. lets see the caps you have still in stalled, what you have done so far etc... its hard to keep up.

so start with a recap of things done to date, a list, that will help. Long threads like this can be hard to follow.

when adjusting controls or diagnosing image problems, video is better as you can see the dynamics of the condition rather than snap shots from still images.

The hardest part I have in diagnosis is having to rely on someone else description of the problem, everyone sees thinks differently so verbal descriptions of a problem can be completely different for the same thing.

another helpful tool in remote diagnosis is pictures. lots of pictures, pictures are worth a 1000 words. that way I can see what you are working with, the condition of the parts, etc.. lets see the caps you have still in stalled, what you have done so far etc... its hard to keep up.

so start with a recap of things done to date, a list, that will help. Long threads like this can be hard to follow.

when adjusting controls or diagnosing image problems, video is better as you can see the dynamics of the condition rather than snap shots from still images.

The hardest part I have in diagnosis is having to rely on someone else description of the problem, everyone sees thinks differently so verbal descriptions of a problem can be completely different for the same thing.

I will be gone for the 4th of July weekend but when I get back I will do plenty of pictures and videos.

Ok pulled it back out. Stupid wax is dripping everywhere! Ugh! I was able to measure the 385 v B+ and it came out at 384 v. Took some pictures for reference and so all of you can see what I have done. http://imgur.com/a/oTaRJ#6MoKAI0 scroll down towards the bottom to find the ones I just took.

ok so the B+ is dropping too much across the two 1600 ohm resistors that drop the 385v to the 270v (you get 205 IIRC).

start by checking the resistance of those paired resistors (800ohm, let the meter settle down).

If the resistors check out there maybe a leaky 50uf that connects to the 270v side I would start with checking that for leakage at the rated voltage.

You need to get the power supply voltages right before trying to further trouble shoot the lack of vert deflection.

ok so the B+ is dropping too much across the two 1600 ohm resistors that drop the 385v to the 270v (you get 205 IIRC).

start by checking the resistance of those paired resistors (800ohm, let the meter settle down).

If the resistors check out there maybe a leaky 50uf that connects to the 270v side I would start with checking that for leakage at the rated voltage.

You need to get the power supply voltages right before trying to further trouble shoot the lack of vert deflection.

Can't seem to find those two 800ohm resistors. Where are they located?

two 1600 ohm in p should be 800 ohm total look at the schematic, it drops the 382v to 270v the 382v is at the output of the filter choke and 80uf filter cap.

from there you should see two 1600 ohm resistors, prob large WW types.

They are R104 and R105 in the factory schematic, each rated at 10 watts:

http://antiqueradio.org/art/temp/RCACTC-7PSPart.jpg

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

two 1600 ohm in p should be 800 ohm total look at the schematic, it drops the 382v to 270v the 382v is at the output of the filter choke and 80uf filter cap.

from there you should see two 1600 ohm resistors, prob large WW types.

One read 809 ohms the other red 810 ohms.

well they are connected in p so will read the same value.

That clears the resistors as an issue.

Next if you do not have a cap tester to check 50 uf for leakage, you will need to disconnect it, temp tack in a new one and power up to see if that brings the 270v back up.

C104-b on the RCA schmatic (not shown on the clip from Phil) look for the 50uf section of C104 and check for continuity of the connection to make sure you are disconnecting the correct tab of the can. The schematic show C104-A, this is NOT the one.

you are looking for the SQUARE mark on C104 not the 1/2 circle.

well they are connected in p so will read the same value.

That clears the resistors as an issue.

Next if you do not have a cap tester to check 50 uf for leakage, you will need to disconnect it, temp tack in a new one and power up to see if that brings the 270v back up.

C104-b on the RCA schmatic (not shown on the clip from Phil) look for the 50uf section of C104 and check for continuity of the connection to make sure you are disconnecting the correct tab of the can. The schematic show C104-A, this is NOT the one.

you are looking for the SQUARE mark on C104 not the 1/2 circle.

But isnt that a can with multiple values? So how could I just use one 50 uf?

disconnect only C104B the Square, connect the disconnected wire to a pos of a 50uf cap neg to ground.

disconnect only C104B the Square, connect the disconnected wire to a pos of a 50uf cap neg to ground.

I'd connect the ground to the ground pin on the filter cap? Please bear with my pure stupidity here please.

the can is a multi section cap with a common ground. IF the can connected to the chassis then you would connect the neg lead of the 50u cap to ANY place on the chassis. IF the can was not grounded then you would connect the neg lead to the can itself. In this case IF you are looking at the right can (C104) and the right section (B) then you would disconnect any thing connected to the "B" section and and then connect those wires resistors what ever you just disconnected to a pos lead of a 50uf and the neg lead of said 50uf to what ever the can was connected to, IF you are on the right can it would be the chassis.

maybe you should take a hi res pic of what you are doing.

this is all just a temp thing to see if that can is bad (or that section anyway).

just tack it on and make sure nothing shorts out, go a quick power us and see if the 270v come back.

If it does then that section is bad, and the whole can should be restuffed.

all of this would not be needed if

you had the proper cap tester OR

just went ahead and restuffed. I prefer to test but if you dont have the correct equipment your options are limited.

If I were to restuff it could I use a 56 uf instead of 50?

typical

82 for 80
56 for 50
33 for 30
27 for 20


remember the orig caps were +100/-50 tolerance.

dont for get to get the 4uf (use a 4.7) in on the video pcb.

I used mainly used a 47 to replace a 50, seems a bit closer to the value, but I don't know, is 56 better?

47 is fine for a 50. big tolerances on those.

how about 150 for a 160? Other question is how am I going to stack all of these caps together and still have enough length to fit all the leads?

your getting ahead, did you try the 50uf tacked in to see if the can was the problem?

your getting ahead, did you try the 50uf tacked in to see if the can was the problem?

Need to order that sorry will report back when I get it in.

your getting ahead, did you try the 50uf tacked in to see if the can was the problem?

Actually Dave, that can is now getting hot. should I still try the 50uf?

if its getting hot the test is moot, its bad.

getting the right caps for stuffing is the key.

Go to mouser, get the tall skinny caps, the dimensions are listed, learn to use the search tools.

with the skinny caps I have NEVER had to stack anything, they fit flush to the base, even 4 part caps. You do need to take the time to find the correct skinny caps. Also get the 105c rated caps, I generally only get nichicons.

They are not expensive, if they are you are not searching right, you want to stay away from odd ball stuff. Also sometimes high values or voltages can actually be cheaper. you just need to look and shop. Only get radial leads, much cheaper than axial leads. The only exception is when the axial is really needed to best fit on a PCB. In that case I pop extra for the correct fit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcHwooOqGRE

Typical can cap with skinny caps mounted flush.

In this case I removed the old can. Generally I do the same process with out removing the can, just cut off leaving the base attached to the chassis.
The video shows a removed, this more clearly shows how the skinny caps fit.

Ok Will go ahead and restuff all of them? Was able to pick up an eico 950B cap tester.

Ok, about to order the caps to replace the filter caps with. For one value on the cans it says 160uf but I can use 150uf right?

I would use these

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/UCS2E181MNY9/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22UeThg9Ucya3a0LXo%2fcME9o% 3d

I am assuming you are talking about the 160uf 250v doubler caps.

I would use these

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/UCS2E181MNY9/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22UeThg9Ucya3a0LXo%2fcME9o% 3d

I am assuming you are talking about the 160uf 250v doubler caps.

yup

Just make SURE whatever you use are EQUAL in value or close to each other..or you will get UNEQUAL voltage across each cap...and a LOT of problems !!

I would use these

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/UCS2E181MNY9/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22UeThg9Ucya3a0LXo%2fcME9o% 3d

I am assuming you are talking about the 160uf 250v doubler caps.

180uf? The tolerance is that high?

yes 180 is a good sub for a 160 when used in power supply doubler.

A PAIR of 180's will be FINE..just make sure BOTH are 180UF..

A PAIR of 180's will be FINE..just make sure BOTH are 180UF..

This is new to me, what kind of issues? I would have assumed that the large variances in caps of the era would have been typical due to tolerances.

well did It work for your set Dave?

yes, never been an issue for me but would like the other poster to chime in, curious as to what problems he has encountered.

the 150uf would work as well, its just I prefer to always go the the NEXT commonly available size that is higher rather than lower. example a 47 for a 50 is fine, but I would generally go with a 56. Again I really don't think it matters, the caps today are so much more accurate that the stuff from back in the day.

IIRC the tolerances were back in the day in the +100 to -50 but that is something I read, and not sure if its correct.

so a 150uf could be 300uf to 75uf. I have seen some mighty odd values used in repairs that worked, but for me I stick with a process, so always go next higher and equal or higher on voltage.

on small caps like 4.7-47uf I typically go way high on voltage, so if a circuit calls for say a 5uf at 50v I will go with a 4.7 or 5.6 but will go much higher on voltage, maybe 160v to 450v. The reason being the size is often a closer fit with the modern caps and I have fewer caps to purchase across a voltage rating. you can use a 450v in a 50v circuit with out issues. Then when you need a 450v 5uf you have it.

Well,,,I Have SEEN..on MODERN stuff that uses a voltage doubler...if ONE cap in the doubler is bad and off by a signiuficant amount...the output will be very DIRTY. I have SEEN it BLOW OUT--as in physically== caps on the output side--I am guessing it will allow HEAVY ripple or such...

This problem occurred in Samsung DLP sets some years ago--the big cap n the ballast WOULD blow out...if one of the 2 caps used on the doubler...became bad and badly off value.. and the OTHER one was working..

I suspect this set which has a rather substantial choke on the output from the doubler would be pretty immune to any big ripple. that being said I agree that it would be good form to go ahead and replace both if one is bad.

one is a single sections that floats above the chassis ground (insulated with a cardboard sleeve, can is NOT grounded. The other doubler cap is part of the 4 section cap that IS grounded.

My guess is the OP has an issue with the grounded can since I doubt he would have noticed the sleeved can getting hot.

Note to OP be VERY careful when working on voltage doubler power supplies re the insulated cap is NOT grounded, rather there is a wire that goes to the can tab, which is NOT twist locked or soldered to the ground. Do this wrong and you will create short, pop a cap, prob a breaker and maybe a diode.

I suspect this set which has a rather substantial choke on the output from the doubler would be pretty immune to any big ripple. that being said I agree that it would be good form to go ahead and replace both if one is bad.

one is a single sections that floats above the chassis ground (insulated with a cardboard sleeve, can is NOT grounded. The other doubler cap is part of the 4 section cap that IS grounded.

My guess is the OP has an issue with the grounded can since I doubt he would have noticed the sleeved can getting hot.

Note to OP be VERY careful when working on voltage doubler power supplies re the insulated cap is NOT grounded, rather there is a wire that goes to the can tab, which is NOT twist locked or soldered to the ground. Do this wrong and you will create short, pop a cap, prob a breaker and maybe a diode.
Hmmm I hooked up the eico 950B to that one earlier today to test for leakage did hook the ground to the tab (which I now know is incorrect) ran it at 250v for about 10 seconds then turned it off. I didnt get any shorts I dont think, the chassis powers up fine and I have HV but I have no idea if I would not have a picture since I ran it outside of the cabinet. Hopefully nothing was hurt.

when you are testing caps with that tester make sure you have them out of the circuit. I generally unwrap the wire wrap connectors and then unsolder any else like resistors. you dont have to worry about the little disc caps that may be soldered, they are too small to worry about and will not be bad.

if you are going to restuff in place, no need to test just do it, leave the wiring alone (which is the main benefit of stuffing in place).

when you are testing caps with that tester make sure you have them out of the circuit.

Ah ok don't think I hurt anything thankfully.

Alright just bought em' will report back when I get them in.

just take your time, take a lot of pics, go slow and be gentle when moving around the chassis. The wires are very old and quite brittle, esp all the connections to the tuner and pots located near the tuner. Its easy to break one. Note the strain reliefs with lots of pics so you can get them back where they belong. I assume you know about how the tuner mounts to the back of the chassis (if its the hard wired in kind) for servicing out of the set.

becare hooking and unhooking up the speaker, its easy to break off the little term connectors on the speaker, same goes for the wires that attach to the transformer.

Just remember there is not rush, better to go slow and easy, respect your elders :) that set has been around a long time.

I forgot to mention this. When I turn the fine tuning all the way to the max to get color I just get barberpolling on my color bars. What causes this and how could I fix it in the future?

video pls demonstrate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AWG61TAIHg go to 13:24 looks identical to what I have.

That chroma issue is a result of the chroma reference oscillator being off frequency. ID the chroma osc. coil, insert a plastic diddle stick, with color bar pattern on screen, turn slug in direction that minimizes vertical color stripes, and keep going until bars synch up and each bar has it's own color separate (don't worry if the yellow bar is purple or something like that the hue/tint control should fix that).

do the colors work ok with reg programing from a DVD or converter box? or does this only happen with a color bar generator?

I do not remember it working on tv stations... But that was before I put some caps in the main chassis.

before any tweeking you should try it with the video source you plan to be watching, not a color bar generator.

diddle stick drift is a common problem.

before any tweeking you should try it with the video source you plan to be watching, not a color bar generator.

diddle stick drift is a common problem.

Should I try it now even with the filter caps not restuffed?

just stay on one problem at a time. you need to get the filter cans stuff, that should help with the B+

That should help with the Vert height

That should help with the vert lin setup

Then you do a purity

Then you do a convergence

Then you do a grey scale

Then you can worry about color issues, you need a good B&W before color, color is the LAST thing on the list.

Ok, just got the caps in. I guess I should start sawing the filter caps?

Ok got two done now for the doubler cap. My question is does the cap need to be grounded to one of the can tabs or not grounded at all? Considering the whole can is live when on.

Ok decided not to ground the doubler cap. I get a raster but I cant get any signal to come in and the screen will be bright then go very dim for a few seconds and then go back to full brightness

pictures of the work done esp the cardboard covered cap, video of the current issue.

Sounds like you messed up your doubler wiring. In a doubler circuit at least one cap's can will NOT be grounded, but rather will connect to a wire....Make sure you connect the negative of the replacement to that can wire and not to chassis. Recheck your wiring against the schematic before and after you fix this.

Ok that fixed the picture issue I now have sound but no picture signal from my pattern generator. what is going on now?

you prob bumped a tube, wiggle tubes, even if filaments are lighting and esp if not.

Hmmm didn't do anything...

Check your B+ lines. If one that drives the video is out/low that could be the problem.

show a video of the problem. include changing channels.

Here is a video of what is happening https://youtu.be/V7HpOP1hUtk

Was able to somewhat get a signal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hja20nVWWiw

Did you try switching to channel three?

Did you restuff all cans and then turn it on, or did you restuff one can at a time and turn the set on? It's better to do one can at a time so if a problem happens you know which one it is, and easier to find the mistake...

I would try running a coax directly from a cable box or DTV converter out, on to channel 3 and see what you get...

Did you try switching to channel three?

Turned to all channels

Did you restuff all cans and then turn it on, or did you restuff one can at a time and turn the set on? It's better to do one can at a time so if a problem happens you know which one it is, and easier to find the mistake...

I would try running a coax directly from a cable box or DTV converter out, on to channel 3 and see what you get...

Ran it without the doubler for a little bit but then I reconnected all the leads I have tried all channels the signal is intermittent and the picture signal is horrendous.

Ran it without the doubler for a little bit but then I reconnected all the leads I have tried all channels the signal is intermittent and the picture signal is horrendous.

ran it without the doubler? what does that mean.

quit using the generator give it a real signal from a DVD or converter box.

without the doubler as in I did not connect the negative end of the cap to anything.

And no luck with a signal from my bt modulator with the input plugged directly into the RF out. Sound is fine just a very bad video signal.

without the doubler as in I did not connect the negative end of the cap to anything.

I would assume that would be why there is problems, each cap in those cans you restuffed needs to have the negative leads connected to ground, as in metal of chassis, unless those cans are isolated... What I would do is connect all neg leads from each cap in each can together soldered, and run a wire soldered to them to a spot on the chassis that already has a cut out where ground leads are already solder too...

I would assume that would be why there is problems, each cap in those cans you restuffed needs to have the negative leads connected to ground, as in metal of chassis, unless those cans are isolated... What I would do is connect all neg leads from each cap in each can together soldered, and run a wire soldered to them to a spot on the chassis that already has a cut out where ground leads are already solder too...

That is what I have done the cap leads were not long enough so I soldered some excess capacitor leads to the neg leads and then soldered that wire to a ground tab

I have asked for pictures of the work done, I can't help you as I can't follow your written response. You need to get a pic of the work done on the cans.

also if you are getting a rastor the work is prob ok.

That being the case you need to confirm you have the tuner hooked up right (leads connected etc...) you should try an alternate source of RF.

from the looks of it I would guess an incorrectly hooked up ant lead or maybe an RF tube. did you wiggle that one in the tuner?

I have asked for pictures of the work done, I can't help you as I can't follow your written response. You need to get a pic of the work done on the cans.

also if you are getting a rastor the work is prob ok.

That being the case you need to confirm you have the tuner hooked up right (leads connected etc...) you should try an alternate source of RF.

from the looks of it I would guess an incorrectly hooked up ant lead or maybe an RF tube. did you wiggle that one in the tuner?

I will take some pictures in about an hour or so here so please bear with me.

Here are the pictures scroll down to the bottom to see them I took 6 of them
http://imgur.com/a/oTaRJ

at what point did you lose the video signal?

its hard to tell whats going on with the caps even with the pics.


make sure you ant connections are good from the ant term block back to the tuner. Did you wiggle the RF tube in the tuner?

lost the signal after a few seconds of having it on for the first time. Wiggled the tubes helped a bit not much though

Ok wiggled the connectors and now I have a coherent picture but the horizontal is bending and the vertical isnt very stable

Seems that just tv shows mainly mess with the horiz and vert hold but the crosshatch and the alignment patterns are somewhat better but still iffy with the holds. The color bar patterns are a lot more stable. Could this be bad caps or a coil adjustment?

Wiggling a tube is only a temporary cure for a situation where a tube has dirty/corroded pins, or its socket has dirty/corroded connectors, or both. Have you every tried cleaning them? See http://antiqueradio.org/FirstStepsInRestoration.htm . If wiggling a connector makes things better and worse, that connection needs to be cleaned or resoldered, whichever is appropriate.

Phil Nelson

Seems that just tv shows mainly mess with the horiz and vert hold but the crosshatch and the alignment patterns are somewhat better but still iffy with the holds. The color bar patterns are a lot more stable. Could this be bad caps or a coil adjustment?

Start with what Phil said, find the intermittent connections and correct.

DO NOT ADJ ANY COILS if you do all bets are off.

also for now stop using the BT, use the RF out from a reg DVD or converter box.

So for sure that is what is causing the bad horiz and vertical hold? I think some of that power transformer wax has dripped onto some tube sockets the underside of the socket where the solder joints are. Could that be causing problems?

more likely the RF source which is why I keep asking you to change it.

Alright sorry just wanted to make sure there was not going to be any further problems with that wax. I'll take it out today and do what I can.

as previously stated, you need to make sure tube sockets are clean esp since it seems they maybe part of the intermittent video signal.

One issue at a time, get that worked out 1st then next will be the horz/vert lock issues.

My guess is you have an AGC or sync separator issue (or a signal issue from the RF source), there are many causes for this, but again FIRST get the intermittent issue worked out.

you should not have to worry about just touching a wire or a tube and have that cause a problem.

on and DONT squirt cleaning solution all over the sockets, esp the tuner. Rather pull the tube out spray the pins, then insert the tube several times. Most times that is all that is needed to clean the socket. Look at the pins of the tube if corroded use fine (500 grit) paper to clean off or use a brass bush.

on really bad sockets I use carb cleaning spiral brushes (soaked with cleaner/lube) to clean out. BUT you don't want to use too large a brush and risk opening up the little socket holes.

Ok got the intermittent signal issue fixed by cleaning the tuner tube pins. The signal is now there but still not all that great in picture quality I'm hoping it just needs a focus adjust. The horizontal hold loses sync about a minute after I adjust it correctly. Here are the screen pictures scroll down to the end of the page. http://imgur.com/a/oTaRJ

loss of horz after a min, I would try subbing a new horz osc tube 1st then try a new sync separater tube. Is the horz hold critical when setting?

Don't worry about how it looks at this point you have to work the problems one at a time.

Was the horz hold always unstable? if not what has changed since it was stable.

loss of horz after a min, I would try subbing a new horz osc tube 1st then try a new sync separater tube. Is the horz hold critical when setting?

Don't worry about how it looks at this point you have to work the problems one at a time.

Was the horz hold always unstable? if not what has changed since it was stable.

Always unstable before and after I recapped. I will replace the tube and get back to you in a few mins.

is it critical in adjustment? you should be able to turn it at least 1/2 turn either way after it locks, and it will still hold OR do you have a very narrow range turning a few degrees either way will cause it to flop.

does it flop both ways or only one?

Ok put in a new 6CG7 and that helped still bends but it is not very noticeable. It will flop both ways I still dont have too much turning room before it loses sync. Please note this 6CG7 came out of an rca portable but tested ok.

how much adj do you have is it at least 1/2 a turn, I am asking this for a reason
.

and what is "bends" I don't understand what that means. a video is needed for "bends"

Yes a 1/2 turn but it bends a little bit more at the half turn both ways. Good thing is when I turn it on it syncs from startup unlike before where I had to adjust it every time I turned it on.

and what is "bends" I don't understand what that means. a video is needed for "bends"

The image visually bends in places or twerks.

I'll upload a video now

Here is a video of what I currently have. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQTEzw2FgCA

turn the brightness down
adj height and lin
then grayscale setup.


I don't see any problems other than maybe fine tuning issues.

Hmm well now I dont have a clear audio signal... The picture is fine this happened after I wiggled some tubes to make sure everything was seated. The audio is static and the sound input is at a higher pitch sound. I will still do what you told me to do though.

Ok now the hold isnt great ugh.

what does it mean hold is not great, is it critical, does it do it on all signals or just the generator

Its hard to remotely diagonose an issue unless you either post up videos OR give very detailed descriptions of the problem.

IF for example its critical (very narrow range of horz hold with flopping both ways on either side of hold, then I would look to the resistor that is across the hold coil as maybe going high in value. If it just loses sync and is not critical then I would think its the horz osc or the sync sep (but can be readjusted and be not critical again).

Maybe another poster can step in for a while and offer some other insight based on what you are describing.

Look in the IF area for a capacitor you may have missed. The CTC9 has a small bumblebee that is only visible when the cover of the IF is removed. It'll cause sync troubles usually after warm up.

Yes flops on both sides and both on the signal generator and tv programming I cant even turn the knob a quarter turn without losing horizontal sync. I do apologize for any frustration I may be causing you Dave I am lucky that you are helping me out so much with this.

Look in the IF area for a capacitor you may have missed. The CTC9 has a small bumblebee that is only visible when the cover of the IF is removed. It'll cause sync troubles usually after warm up.

good catch, an easy one to miss under the IF cover.

ALL bumble bees must be replaced. they are worse than wax paper caps.

I did not see that one when I first took the cover off. Maybe it was replaced or maybe i missed it?

Ok the bumblebee has been replaced with an elmenco cap. Are those prone to failure? should I replace it?

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=178129&d=1363626356

white thin cap right in the center

Ok the bumblebee has been replaced with an elmenco cap. Are those prone to failure? should I replace it?

you have that new cap tester take it out and test it.

and yes white tube ceramic elmencos have been know to be problems, not like wax or bumblebee but enough that they should be suspected.

How exactly did you get the shield off the back of the IF board? My soldering iron is not melting the solder joints holding it in.

look at the pic its not the bottom

There is a metal shield on the trace side of the pcb blocking me from getting to the pcb traces so i can take out the cap.

solder iron, heat stake, lift cover. if solder iron not hot enough you need a bigger solder iron or clip from top and j hook in new.

OK it is in. Anything else I should do before I shove it back in?

Old cap was open at 400v. Hopefully the new one will solve my problem.

Old cap was open at 400v. Hopefully the new one will solve my problem.

Open? it should be open (eye should completely open). Shorted or leaky at rated voltage is bad. Not sure how your eye tube tester works

did you check the value as well?

try testing the new one, do a video of the test of the old and the new.

Open? it should be open (eye should completely open). Shorted or leaky at rated voltage is bad. Not sure how your eye tube tester works

did you check the value as well?

try testing the new one, do a video of the test of the old and the new.

Open as in completely dead. On my tester when the eye closes and stays closed that indicates excessive leakage. The eye stayed closed at 400v for the old one. The new one tests no leakage at 400v with the eye staying open.

there are two test to be done

value and leakage.

the value generally uses an AC signal, 55vac on mine IIRC

you select a range and then null an eye tube (largest opening in the display)

the leakage test is done by selecting a voltage and turning a knob to test.
in my case the eye tube should open fully, if it does not then there is leakage.
on larger value caps it close momentary while the cap charges then opens, small values its so quick not really noticeable.

Electros have there own setting and have a power factor test as well.

Open as in completely dead. On my tester when the eye closes and stays closed that indicates excessive leakage. The eye stayed closed at 400v for the old one. The new one tests no leakage at 400v with the eye staying open.

ok so its leaky/shorted, def a prob will foul up the syn as its a cap that couples the syc separated grid.

Dont know if mine does value. But I think it does because at any value except the one the cap specifies the eye closes. So if it is a .01 cap and I turn the dial to .05 or something else the eye stays closed. If I turn the dial back to the correct value the eye opens and then I can run the leakage tests. This is all stated in my manual for the 950B.

I use a Weller Soldering station. Adjustable heat. It unsolders chassis shields without a problem. If the piece is too large for it I use an old electric gutter iron.
I don't remember the CTC9 having a shield on the bottom. It does have one on the top.

Would it be safe to put cans back on the restuffed filter caps? And should I put the chassis back in the cabinet and see if the new IF cap helps? Or should I tackle some more things with it first?

Would it be safe to put cans back on the restuffed filter caps? And should I put the chassis back in the cabinet and see if the new IF cap helps? Or should I tackle some more things with it first?

Everything you ever wanted to know about restuffing filter caps:
http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=246148

Would it be safe to put cans back on the restuffed filter caps?There's no downside to waiting a while, until you have confirmed that all of the TV's operating voltages are normal and it is stable in operation.

Phil Nelson

Got it back in. Signal is clear and the picture is clearer now but the horizontal hold is still a pain :sigh:
It seems I can turn the horiz hold knob about a half turn to right before losing sync but when I turn it to the left I only get about a quarter turn before I lose sync. This horizontal hold issue has been very frustrating but I can live with it until I start using it as a daily watcher. Whats to do next? Should I try and fix the horiz hold once and for all or should I continue on to the picture quality and color adjustments?

Okay, here is my attempt at vertical linearity I think I did OK :yes:
Cant get rid of that horizontal distortion. That only really happens on the pattern generator sometimes it is perfectly straight and sometimes it is bent. Note that the line at the top of the screen is obstructed by the mask you can see it better if you are up close.

It looks alot better.. Got a full raster now.. I would still work on the Horz issue before going onto color etc...

You can post pics from an external pic hosting site and post them on this forum.. The forum does have an "Insert Image" function in the advanced posting, and then copy/paste image link into it, and it will post html code to your image..

Photobucket gives you the IMG code to paste into your posts so the picture will appear in them...It's even easier that way.

Ok will do that next time. Now my question is what is causing the poor horizontal lock and how can I fix it? I have recapped the horizontal board and have put a new tube in and replaced an open IF cap and still I have very poor hold and the picture is bending near the top. ie. the vertical bars on the crosshatch pattern are distorted and bent near the top of the screen. How can I fix this? This has been frustrating me very much and I would like to fix this irritating horizontal hold once and for all! Any input is greatly appreciated!!

how does it look on reg programming.

try not directly connecting the ant lead, so the signal is weaker, see if you get a snowy pic that lacks the bending and other distortion.

Ran a signal from my BT modulator and received a signal from my rabbit ears hooked up to the set and the picture is kinda snowy but the bending at the top of the screen is a lot less noticeable it is still there though but it is moving very fast as in it swirls but this is not too noticeable the horiz hold still is very touchy and occasionally goes off sync. Funny thing is when it loses sync sometimes all I have to do is give the cabinet a firm hit with my hand and it whips back into place. But regular programming does not cause as many problems as the NTSC pattern generator does to the horiz hold.

the touchy control, does it flop both ways easy and if so how much range after it locks.

oh and the hooking at the top is pretty typical, generally you can straighten out with the horz lock but that assumes the horz lock is not to touchy. Even then its not uncommon to have the hooking. Could be the antihunting network not dealing well with the powerful vert sync pulse. But it rarely is a prob except when looking at test patterns.

Flops both ways pretty easy but takes a lot less of a turn for it to flop when I am turning it to the left.I get about a bit over a half turn before I lose sync when I turn the horiz hold to the right and about a quarter turn to the left before I lose sync. This was done with a tv show coming from my bt modulator. The horiz is very unstable and will randomly lose sync at any given time.

And does it have a better picture if you hook the TV directly to a signal source such as a DVD player, DTV converter box, or cable box?

And does it have a better picture if you hook the TV directly to a signal source such as a DVD player, DTV converter box, or cable box?

Yes it not crystal clear though but it is better I plan to run the set when it is working with rabbit ears receiving a signal from the bt modulator and using it as my daily watcher.

vertical lock is strong?

Eh not extremely strong but I can get it so it is stable and won't lose sync but on rare occasions it will lose sync but then I just readjust it. It could do with some work but it suffices for now. I would like it to be very strong once I start actually watching this set.

both the vert and horz lock are weak then its prob a defect sync separater.

If it syncs better with a weak signal, then it could be a problem with the AGC setting.

My guess is the sync separater OR the noise inverter Or the sync output.

the reason being its effecting both vert and horz.

I am assuming you have not messed with the AGC or noise inverter settings. Best not to do that unless you know what you are doing.

The best way to determine the problem is the use of a scope, checking the output from the sync separater. Otherwise its pretty much just blind checking.

as a minimum you could try a new a new noise inverter tube/sync sep tube/sync output tube to see if that helps.

the sync lock on this sets should not be the slightest bit critical.

the fine tuning will have a lot to do with it as well. I presume you have tried that to see if it helps. this generally shows up as a dark pic that loses sync
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAk9lKv03zA

Oh boy a scope really never learned how to use one of those. They have always intimidated me. I have a RCA wo-33 scope but with a different low capacitance probe. Guessing I just hook the ground to ground then use the probe on what is needing to be measured? But tomorrow I will see if I have any replacement tubes for the possible offending tubes listed by you.

I am guessing here since no scope to look but areas that can also give trouble

AGC C405 is the filter cap of the AGC. the agc voltage should be clean but if this cap is open then the normally clean AGC voltage supplied by the keyed agc can have hash on it, creating all kinds of problems.

make pics of all the pcb's so I can see what film caps have been replaced. C405 is on the video board.

you can also try adj the noise inverter pot on the back of the chassis, located under the plate where the other screen controls. Note NOT the agc pot that is located on the top of the chassis by the video board.

just note where the noise inverter pot is set. try the patter generator and adj the noise inverter CCW to see if it helps. if not return it to the orig setting.