My internship this summer proved fairly lucrative so I decided to put the bulk of my earnings in to finally getting a car of my own. My radio silence for the last ~month was my way of squeezing enough time out of the busy schedule my college classes demand to do some car shopping.

While I'd have preferred to buy something from the 40's or 50's the only options in my budget would have either been complete basket cases or would have left me with no gas/insurance money. So I went with (to me) the most appealing available car in my budget a 1978 Lincoln Continental Mark V.

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN3401_zpsbcc0aebc.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN3401_zpsbcc0aebc.jpg.html)

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN3399_zps0d98161d.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN3399_zps0d98161d.jpg.html)

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN3400_zps53919e9f.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN3400_zps53919e9f.jpg.html)

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN3398_zpsf210e1ce.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN3398_zpsf210e1ce.jpg.html)

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN3404_zpse6889c4b.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN3404_zpse6889c4b.jpg.html)

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN3403_zpsb10967bd.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN3403_zpsb10967bd.jpg.html)

With just under 58K on the clock of the 460ci(7.5L) V8 it runs quite well, and the interior is in good shape. It is quite interesting getting the hang of driving such a large car. It has a lot of nice options: sun roof, heated side mirrors, full power seats, vanity mirrors in the sun flaps, digital miles to empty gauge (a historically interesting feature), auto dimming brights (the last two could use some work). One option it does not have that I wish it did was the optional Quardasonic 8 track radio option....Although in researching it I found that a stereo 8 track car radio without any makers marks I have had kicking around for several years was actually one of the factory options for the next model year:thmbsp:, and now I'm seriously considering installing it (if I don't buy one of the quad units). If I keep it more than a year I'm probably going to have the vinyl top replaced and the body repainted as the paint is a bit worn in places and there is some surface rust forming at the bottom edge of the vinyl (which is especially bad on the passenger side).

It was built in October of 1977 so there is a 1/21 chance it was built exactly 14 years before I was born (assuming a 5 day work week).

There is something about late 70's Lincolns I've always liked. They have a sort of anachronistic opulence that in the case of the Mark V mixes with muscle car and pimp mobile vibes in ways no other car could pull off half as well.

Those are nice cars, 78 was the for last year the big Lincoln with the 460. I have two of the 8-track radios that fit that car, one of them says its the quad, they probably need work, but you can have them if you want them.

Those are nice cars, 78 was the for last year the big Lincoln with the 460. I have two of the 8-track radios that fit that car, one of them says its the quad, they probably need work, but you can have them if you want them.
Sweet!
Can you give me a price/shipping quote on the quad unit? My zip is 53072.
I'd almost ask for the stereo unit as well, but then I would have two, and that lingering crazy idea I had about equipping the riding lawnmower with a car radio might start keeping me up at night again.:D

I have a healthy collection 8-tracks (including a few quad cartridges), and some cassette to 8-track adapters...And I've been pondering what else I could potentially play if a popped a 1/8" phone jack to cassette adapter into one of those cassette to 8 track adapters.:scratch2:....I seem to recall a 70's sony reel to reel with a 12V power input laying around in the basement.

HA HA HA ! ! ! You can imagine me reading your description and reasonings for chosing
that car with a really big smile ! ! ! It sure does say " You've arrived ! ! "

Under the dash near the radio it looks like 2 red toggle switches...... They
don't by chance raise and lower the suspension....?..?...???

A shovel in the trunk ??? WOW So when we gunna go crusin in dat ??

.

i cut my teeth on lincolns.smoothest ride,unlimited power and well engineered.i saw an episode of fast and loud that had a 72 mark.the alleged"master mechanic" cut and bagged it for a "better ride and nasty stance".idiot!how could you change anything on a lincoln?nothing needed,an almost perfect piece of
american engineering and manufacture.beautiful car!

HA HA HA ! ! ! You can imagine me reading your description and reasonings for chosing
that car with a really big smile ! ! ! It sure does say " You've arrived ! ! "

Under the dash near the radio it looks like 2 red toggle switches...... They
don't by chance raise and lower the suspension....?..?...???

A shovel in the trunk ??? WOW So when we gunna go crusin in dat ??

.

Glad I brought a smile to ya. Them red things are wire nuts...I gather that whenever one of the previous owners accidently cut a wire they repaired it by using two wire nuts to splice another short piece of wire in. There is another repair like that in the trunk on the wire that moves with the lid hinge...Otherwise' ignoring a newer looking horn, the electrical looks unmolested.

As much as I can see someone else installing a hydraulic/pneumatic suspension on one of these, It is not really my thing...I like most cars better stock. About the only cosmetic changes I could see my self doing are to maybe repaint it a different factory color and change it's wheels to the factory optional turbine rims (that I think look better).

No shovel in the trunk since I ain't been asked to "whack" nobody in ages...Though if business picks up I suppose I could transport two or three at once in that trunk...:smoke:

As fo dat cruise, I probably won't be visiting nu yak or texazz anytime soon since I'm wanted there (okay time to turn off the fake mafia accent (though I'm part Italian so it ought to be convincing)), rather I'm scared of ElectronicBola...If it comes to Milwaukee EVERYONE at my college will get it as no one stays home sick if they can still move and come close to rational thought.

EDIT: One extra witicisim to make ya laugh. I've concluded given that the 460 continued to be deployed in pickups and 12,000Lb RVs into the 90's, it weighs 4600Lb (according to what I've read), it's nearly 20' long (a good portion of that being hood), and it's black...It all adds up to a simple realization: That Lincoln is basically a pickup truck in a tux!

Make sure you get the application for your own zip code sent in right away.

:)
Chip

That car is totally you.

I would keep an older car stock as well. The 8-track stereo on the right I believe is 1973 only, the first year for AM-FM 8-track. I have six (!) Ford AM-FM 8-track stereos, none of them quad though. I'm picky about what they look like and always liked those with AM - FM - STEREO - TAPE on the tape door. Manufacturing of Ford AM-FM 8-track stereos changed hands a couple of times and they were made simultaneously by different companies depending on the model.

Love it!
I had a 78 Town Car which I miss to this day.
However... and not sure if it was MY car specifically.. but it was the WORSE handling car in the snow. I nicknamed mine "the spinning car of death". I wasn't worried about me.. but the look of horror I'd see on the other drivers faces if it went into a spin and was heading their way. I was lucky and never crashed it tho. Yours hopefully will get better gas mileage than mine did. Mine was a bit underpowered as it had a 400. Mine got 7mpg in town and about 11mpg on the highway.

smoothest ride,unlimited power and well engineered.i saw an episode of fast and loud that had a 72 mark.the alleged"master mechanic" cut and bagged it for a "better ride and nasty stance".idiot!how could use change anything on a lincoln?nothing needed,an almost perfect piece of
american engineering and manufacture.beautiful car!

I agree completely, Those cars were smooth and quiet. Great choice. If you don't push that 460 too hard the gas milage wouldn't be horrible. Does it have the Holly carb or the Autolite?
http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mjWjn7qbEGKZZsyazGx5S3A.jpg

This was the '79 Continental 4 door I had back in 2004. It was a Sunday cruiser, used to take the family out to Cracker Barrel for breakfast, and everyone would almost fall asleep on the way home with full tummies :) .

Mine had a 400 2 barrel, which was I guess Lincoln's temporary answer to the high gas prices until the smaller 1980 models came out. The one thing I loved about the car were the brakes. Instead of working off engine vacuum, they worked off the hydraulic power steering system (hydroboost). They had such a cool yet luxurious feel to them. It was definitely in a class of its own.

Ended up giving the car to a friend in Ohio who hit hard times, his engine blew in his car and he'd just started a new job. Only problem those cars had en masse (around here) was rear frame rot. Lots of Lincolns around missing their rear bumpers....

"Its Evidental, I LOVE my Continental"... Altho I prefer the ones w/the funny doors, the LAST series of Jumbotron Lincolns had a certain charm to them, as well. "Pickups w/Tuxedos"... Very apt description. My '67 Pervertable Sedan, the suspension components on it CERTAINLY would NOT look out of place on a modern F-350 tonne Super Duty... There's enuff metal in the HOODS of these things to hammer out a couple, maybe 3, Smart Cars.. Modern motors really don't impress too much-Sure, they're getting 2, 3X the horsepower that these emissions strangled 400s & 460s put out.... But they have to run RPMs that sound like they're SCREAMING to do it, & one suspects the old mastodons were HIGHLY underrated-You want MORE power, Jasper ? No problem, just stomp on the "Loud" pedal a little harder.... We'll handle the rest..

It sure sounds like a newer smaller engine is screaming when it is putting out it's top
power, But you gotta remember they are aluminum, thinner walls, Sound penetrates
the walls much easier, tuned intake and less flow restricted exhaust, and often
multi-valves per cylinder. Many of those older engines had a top rpm limited
by the moving mass of the parts, and poor breathing capability of the intake and
exhaust. A lot of the older engines made a lot of noise, very cool sounding noise,
but from the factory, poor performers compared to today...

And I think 4 valves per cylinder was the biggest thing.... Can you imagine the old
302 v8 with 4 valves per cylinder...HOT ! ! !

.

I love the loud noises the old 1.6 Liter Mercury Lynx engine makes. There isn't much low-end torque, but whatever.

It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.

The Aussie Falcon in my avatar, 351 Clevo powered.

My first buggie, 73 mustang with 351C was much louder once I put on a 7200VV from
Ford, but with lower top speed.... The noise did not represent any kind of power....
It was just intake noise....

Anyway EM Good luck with the yacht.... It sure is a beauty.....
Whoever had it took good care of it for ya-
Like those Audi commercials "I'm gunna own that car after you."
Someone put in a good word for the second owner of your car...

By the way.... Keep those old hub caps if you get the others you want. I did not care
too much for stock '89 Prelude hub caps when I got my second car, but now that I have
seen a few in "original" shape, with the factory covers, they are more sharp looking
now in that "retro" rear view mirror..... Again good luck, and happy boating....

.

You GOTTA wonder what a GM 455 or a FoMoCo 460 could do w/modern OHC-or even DOHC- tech, w/4 valves per cylinder, fuel injection, turbosupercharging, all the little tricks we have nowadays...I'm betting we'd see power approaching 1000 HP, w/all the low-end "Grunt" these mills were famous for. Might even skunk that over-wrought Volkswagen, the Bugatti Veyron W-16... (grin)

Ford came close with the 4.6 v8 I think the one they stuck in the Mustang after the 302.
One version of that engine had OHC, I think it also had 4 Valves per cylinder but I'm
not sure.... I quit following mustangs that close after I got my Preludes..... One thing
limiting power remember was rev limiting because of all the mass of the moving parts..
You just can't move all that metal above 6k rpm without stuff wanting to move away
from center and not come back....

My 351C 1973 was rated at around 160hp if I remember right.... My prelude 1959cc
engine 4V/cyl. DOHC 135 hp so it did almost all the 351 could do at half the size...
That is impressive in my book...... Plus I got more than 2X the life out of it and still
going...... And no rebuild.... Oh, yah.... 2x the gas mileage.......

The 70's cars were fun.... I personally would love a '72 slant 6 dart for fun... And I
really loved my mustang, but today's engineering got them beat easy for daily use...

I'm pretty sure they would not build a 1,000 hp engine for daily use.... The thing would
have to be over 8L in size or it would tear itself up..... The 3.8L Super charged v6 in the
'89 Thunderbirds use to kill the crankshafts cause it put out too much power for what
it was originally designed for.... I think it was '89....

I would however get a kick out of cars today stalling like they did years ago, combined with cell phone texting....


.

The 6.8 L V-10 in The Mighty Valdez is pretty impressive, its only SOHC, doesn't have multivalves, turbo, none of that, & is RELATIVELY small, at only 413 CID, but it will pull the Valdez-a 2000 7500 lb 4X4 Excursion, at about ANY rate of speed I wanna go.. And I HAVE embarrassed a couple backwards-cap wearing, "Slammed" Accord pilots w/it.. Gotten a few kicks over the years of popping the hood of my '73 Fleetwood Brougham Caddy, & showing the Slammed Honda crowd what a REAL Amurrican V-8 looked like.. Their l'il motors would barely serve as a starter motor for the big Caddy 472..

I like it. There's one of those at the end of my street, at a body shop, that has been sitting there for years. The outside looks perfect, but there is no interior at all. No dash, nothing. I wonder if it was a flood car or something.

The young crowd has a different outlook on cars as us older all steel 4" 6-pack+ piston
driven' dudes. Don't forget they racin' others with basically the same cars. Like we raced
a gm v8 against a ford v8.... It wasn't a ford v8 vs a honda VTEC something. And they
already have a computerized almost maxed out engine from the factory. We had squat,
and tons of potential, the old stuff had detuned cams, detuned intakes, and "Y" piped
single exhaust systems holding back the stuff we had as kids.... Most of what kids do
today is lower the car, we jacked up the back, most engine stuff they do does not
improve performance until you add a supercharger. We could replace a cam, intake, and
exhaust and nearly double the power..... Today's kids also have this strange hangup with
mobile earthquake recreation. And those fart cans..... I don't get it....

.

I've often wondered, if gas had stayed at 35 cents/gallon, how big would have American cars gotten? I wonder how hard it would be to fit the fuel injection/engine controls from a 90s F-series 460 to that Lincoln?

I've often wondered, if gas had stayed at 35 cents/gallon, how big would have American cars gotten? I wonder how hard it would be to fit the fuel injection/engine controls from a 90s F-series 460 to that Lincoln?

I have often wondered that too !

35 cents a gallon, and no EPA pollution rules WOW the Hummer would be looked
at as if it was a tin can by now as it gets bypassed by bigger and bigger models
every year.....

.

I find it funny that some of the average cars of old get about the same mileage as the average cars of today. I drove a 65 fury with the slant 6, and it got a rock-solid 20mpg. In town, or on the highway, always 20mpg. I know because the gas gauge was broken, so I had to drive by the odometer and my gas-station receipt ;)

That car was so long I about had to hit the back wall of the garage just to get the door to close behind it!

I find it funny that some of the average cars of old get about the same mileage as the average cars of today. I drove a 65 fury with the slant 6, and it got a rock-solid 20mpg. In town, or on the highway, always 20mpg. I know because the gas gauge was broken, so I had to drive by the odometer and my gas-station receipt ;)

That car was so long I about had to hit the back wall of the garage just to get the door to close behind it!

For the most part it comes down to physics..... Wind resistance, engine size,
and vehicle weight, a gal. of gas will push a weight with rolling resistance, through
the air and deliver this much economy.....

The funny thing is that when they actually make progress, the typical car line
does not realize greater mpg, instead it gets bigger both as a wind drag, and
gains weight.... Look at pickups, even the smallest entry models you need
a step ladder to get into, and the Accords, gaining weight, and getting big...
I think the new ones do about the same as our '91.

Popular Science use to do several speed - mpg tests on cars in the 70's and
a lot of the cars back then got the best mpg at around 45 mph... I'm guessing
it's because the rpm's were around 2100 and wind resistance was pretty low
at that speed....



.

For the most part it comes down to physics..... Wind resistance, engine size,
and vehicle weight, a gal. of gas will push a weight with rolling resistance, through
the air and deliver this much economy.....

The funny thing is that when they actually make progress, the typical car line
does not realize greater mpg, instead it gets bigger both as a wind drag, and
gains weight.... Look at pickups, even the smallest entry models you need
a step ladder to get into, and the Accords, gaining weight, and getting big...
I think the new ones do about the same as our '91.

Popular Science use to do several speed - mpg tests on cars in the 70's and
a lot of the cars back then got the best mpg at around 45 mph... I'm guessing
it's because the rpm's were around 2100 and wind resistance was pretty low
at that speed....



.

Yep. The Mighty Valdez weighs in at 7500 lbs, empty, so w/any load at all, you're right at 8000 lbs. That's 4 TONS...Even if I yanked the V-10 out & transplanted a 300 6 in, I doubt if it would help matters all THAT much, & drivability would suffer.

@ Jon A: If I decide to get rid of my stereo 8-track car stereo I'll have to mention it to ya. I like the quad units mostly because I've been fascinated with the different formats it was issued on, and obtaining them (aside from my CD4 decoder needing repair I can play all formats marketed in the US and record all tape formats)...I wanted to hear quad through tubes bad enough to start building my own quad tube amp (because it was cheaper than getting two more mono blocks) a year and a half ago (it is the best thing I've built to date).

@ jstout66: I hope mine don't spin in the snow. Despite new tires I did have an issue on friday...I was at a light during/immediately after mild drizzle trying to turn on red, and it was inching along with the (seemingly sufficient) gas I was giving it. With the window to get out of the way closing I gradually applied more gas until suddenly the tires audibly spun and it started to actually move...Granted it was at a light and the conditions were right for a surface oil-slick to form on the road.
If any traction issues develop I'll probably leave some kitty-litter or other ballast in the trunk for the winter.

@ Paul Knaack: Not sure. It's hard to tell there even is one under the enormous air filter enclosure (you could serve a turkey on that thing).
Is there a easy way to distinguish them from each other? I've heard of the Autolite carbs being stock, but I've not seen the Holly mentioned...Were those an option or a popular aftermarket mod?

@ Kamakiri: Nice continental. A year or two ago there was a sky blue one for sale in an area I frequently went past, which put put that era of lincoln back on the map for me (when I was a kid there was IIRC a black Mark V in my neighbor hood).
Yours had the coolest (in my book) of the car radios available in those cars. If that radio was not normally 200$+ on fleabay I'd be trying to buy one. There is something that feels out of place seeing a early digital tuned radio with a built in quad 8-track deck...it would be like a LCD TV with SuperBetamax built in.
The Marks seem to have bolt on frame extenders that the rear bumper mounts to, and one of them on mine is not in particularly great shape compared to the other (and the rest of the under carriage seems in better shape compared to them).

I'll comment on more of your comments later tonight after I get home.

UGH! I hope it will get around for you okay, I always cussed mine, and said if a bird pooped overhead and one of my tires met it, it would send the car in a spin. I had a 75 Olds 98 Regency before the town car that acted the same way. I had always wondered if it was the brand of tires I had on it (Coopers). I always put new tires on a car after I buy it, and after the Towncar, I swore NEVER to buy that brand again. I got a 66 Plymouth Valiant after the town car that I had Uniroyal tiger paws on it, and that car was like a GOAT in the snow. That damn car would go thru anything. Good luck on yours.. I bet Tim *Kamakari could chime in on some tips. ( he's the car guru)

Nice find in that condition, Tom. If I had room for maybe ten cars, a Mark V like yours would be the "cruise ship" of choice, nothing else is nearly as cool.

Find a parking lot with "compact car" spaces, then park your car and open both doors wide. See if you can take up FOUR spaces! :) (Then move it-you do not want anyone to get angry and retaliate.)

Better yet, park it across the spaces. :D Then, open the hood to make it look like it's about to eat the import next to it and snap a photo. I agree, move it afterward though.

One bit of work it needs is some exhaust repair. Me and a friend are hoping to find time to do that soon. I've heard it suggested elsewhere that if I were to convert it to dual exhaust I could tack on a few more MPG...If that is the case it might be a good idea to just do it while I'm under there changing out the exhaust.

@ Bgadow: The potential compatibility of the 90's truck fuel injection/engine control had me asking the same question. But I have to wonder if there would be significant benefit in fuel economy or power without one being at the expense of the other? If it would merit doing, and there are no major stumbling blocks it could make for an interesting summer project.

@ Jon A: ROTFL :lmao: :lmao: That is the funniest thing I've read in a long time. If mine was a 500$ junker (it's not), I'd try to find a smart car to park on the hood like a doggie treat...

@ jstout66: Well if it does like to slide I can always keep it parked when the roads are bad...Or take it out to a vacant un-plowed lot and have some fun trying to drive it sideways. :D

@ senior squirrel: Speaking of yachts, the last owner of mine was so slow in getting back to me I was looking at other cars, and considered buying a 79' Bill Blass edition lincoln Mark V...Now that version, which is white with the side panels painted navy blue, SCREAMS land yacht much louder than mine can.
Funny you mention loud engines and the Prelude. My friend had a 90's Prelude until this year and it exemplified loud high RPM modern engine. When he would try to accelerate it would quickly comply with a LOUD whiney roar. I've never particularly liked fast noisy little cars. I get the same feeling being in a car that has to really rev to accelerate as I do running a tube radio that hums louder than the audio coming through. And small+fast does not equal safe in my mind. If I'm going to be tempted to go fast I like the idea of something that has some real mass to it surrounding me.
If the old Lincolins are as sturdy or better than the new ones then it is probably as good as driving a tank. My friend was cut off by a Lincoln SUV in his prelude while I was with him which totaled his car, the SUV...It had some scratches, and a side reflector popped off...
I've never got my generations obsession with whiney engines, fart cans, and stereos with ridiculously excessive often distorted bass. Also most modern cars lack the sense of bold style of days gone bye, and the simplicity of design and construction that says "we took the care to make it so that if you want or need to fix it your self you can".
Cars to an extent have the same feel as TVs of their time...Older models have better style and a feel of craftsmanship to them, and while not as densely packed with technological marvels have the benefit of being much easier for the owner to be deeply familiar with, where as more recent cars, engineering marvels as they are, feel like they are made to impress, break and stay broken else live on as crippled horses.

[QUOTE=Electronic M;3117990]Sweet!
Can you give me a price/shipping quote on the quad unit? My zip is 53072.
I'd almost ask for the stereo unit as well, but then I would have two, and that lingering crazy idea I had about equipping the riding lawnmower with a car radio might start keeping me up at night again.:D

You have no room left in your pm box…

...

I always like to put dual exhaust on my cars, I don't know if I'll ever do it to the 03 Grand Marquis I'm currently driving, but I did it to my 72 Impala and 72 Buick.

They were designing OHC big block V8s in the late-60s / early-70s. Buick and Olds had an OHC big block V8, Cadillac had an OHC V12 in the works. They never made it into production. I'm a big fan of the 71-74 GM cars (tend to think of 75-76 as kind of lesser versions of the 71-74), but think the 77-90 were such a disappointment compared to what might have been.

Similarly, I think Ford and Chrysler made their big cars through 78. And I think there were still some big Lincolns in 79 - but not with the 460. And Cadillac still made the full-size Eldo with a 425 instead of the 500 in 77-78.

I kind of liked the 91-96 GM full size models, and the Ford big cars 92-11 (I like the 03 Grand Marquis I have now - it has a small 281 ci OHC V8 and still drives a lot like the older cars) Whereas (Ford 79-91, GM 77-90) were just smaller, slower and boxier looking than the earlier 70s cars, (91-96 GM , 92-11 Ford) were a a bit of an improvement over (Ford 79-91, GM 77-90), a little faster, a little sleeker looking. Now nobody makes a full size rwd V8 car, and all of the cars look way out of proportion to me (too high, not wide or long enough).

To me the real golden age of auto manufacture was (57-)59-74(-79). Looks peaked with the 59-60 GM models, mechanically cars peaked around 71-74 when you could get a full size car with one of the larger big block V8s: 440, 454, 455, 460, 472, 500 (without too much of that smog crapola tacked on yet), and most cars came with AC and all the other various power accessories.

Yeah, an unexpected PM grabbed the last slot...I've cleared up some space so it should work now.

The Cad V-12 program dated from the early Sixties. By 1963, they were far enuff along w/it to have drawn up a picture of a likely 2-passenger coupe', w/swoopy 1968 Corvette style midsection, & 1963 production Caddy grille & back end. The hood was impossibly long. They even cobbled up a wood block prototype full-size mockup, & I think had a "Boilerplate" rough-running ACTUAL engine. But, in late '65, the project was killed.. The V-12 was not sufficiently THAT much more powerful or smoother than the ENORMOUS V-8s planned-the 1967-68-The 472- to justify production. The Eldo was sposed to get the V-12, but it was never to be. Rumors have circulated from time to time ever since of a V-12 Caddy supercar, but have as yet remained strictly rumors. One would think-HOPE-that with the incredible success Caddy has had in the Chinese market, that THERE might be a hope for a Caddy hypercar to give the Germans something to think about-There are likely more S-class Mercedes now in Beijing than there are in Stuttgart, & the "Nominative S-Class customer" is no longer a 60 yr old dentist from Omaha, but a 30 yr old oligarch from Beijing. We can HOPE, I guess...

I think had a "Boilerplate" rough-running ACTUAL engine.

I have not heard that term before... does it refer to a prototype engine? Or perhaps one that is actually fabricated from sheet metal (like the early Crosley CoBra engine)? Or something completely different? :scratch2:

jr

Ford was building Aluminum block, 32 valve, DOHC engines in the early 40's.
Sadly they never put them in any cars, at least not here.

This looks like the ancestor to the Duratec engine used today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt5uSx3eFYU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2ghTjFtNPo

I have not heard that term before... does it refer to a prototype engine? Or perhaps one that is actually fabricated from sheet metal (like the early Crosley CoBra engine)? Or something completely different? :scratch2:

jr

From what I recall reading, it was a "Toolroom" prototype, sort of a "Proof of Concept", more than anything else. The full-size wooden mockup was made to give the engineers an idea where they could mount the alternator, exhaust manifolds, distributor, A/C units, etc. I've seen a small picture of it, & it was pretty lifelike.. The actual running motor, I don't recall if it was cast, machined, or like the Crosley "Cobra" motor, built up. But I DO remember there were a couple of variations of it, an OHV version, & an "OHC" version. I bet they STILL spent a bundle on it, even for back then.

@ Jon A: ROTFL :lmao: :lmao: That is the funniest thing I've read in a long time. If mine was a 500$ junker (it's not), I'd try to find a smart car to park on the hood like a doggie treat...

@ jstout66: Well if it does like to slide I can always keep it parked when the roads are bad...Or take it out to a vacant un-plowed lot and have some fun trying to drive it sideways. :D
Haha, gotta love it. That sounds like a fun Photoshop project, especially if made into an action shot.

I would have to try the vacant lot thing given the opportunity. I had never heard of "snow drifting" before. :D

Haha, gotta love it. That sounds like a fun Photoshop project, especially if made into an action shot.

I would have to try the vacant lot thing given the opportunity. I had never heard of "snow drifting" before. :D
I've been wanting to do that too...Since this is my first winter with a drivers license I can go out alone and try that without being told NO(!)...:nono:

There is an old family legend that many years ago in a neighborhood in Chicago, during a bad snowstorm, one of my uncles was with some friends (alcohol may or may not have been involved) and made a bet that he could drive his car sideways from one end of the un-plowed block to the other. As the story goes he had no trouble collecting on that bet...:D

As a kid one sledding hill I used to go to had a good view of a parking lot...I remember one night I stopped and watched someone in a minivan repeatedly come around the corner of the school building that lot circled, hit the brakes(?), and do a real good skid...They stopped IIRC either from either almost rolling it or hitting a curb.

If I knew how to use Photoshop (and if it was freeware) I'd have to try making that picture or animation.

Wowww I love that car!!!!

Yeah, an unexpected PM grabbed the last slot...I've cleared up some space so it should work now.

Your PM box is full again...

Your PM box is full again...
So is my room, and probably his, but that doesn't stop us from bringing in more stuff. ;)

It does stop me from getting PMs...Sorry about that, finals week just ended, and early in the week my box filled...So I'm just getting it fixed now.

People snort w/derision at the old Yankee "Battle Cruisers" of yore, but they WERE impressive machines any way you cut it. You can carry 5-6 200 LB guys in a 1965 Cadillac in pretty much sublime comfort, coast to coast, the temperature in the car rarely wavering from the 68-70 you set it on, listening to FM the whole way. Basically, all the driver has to do is steer the beast, the car will take care of everything else itself. To get the same level of luxury in 1965, you'd have to go w/a Grosser Mercedes 600, a car that was a good 4X the price of the Caddy. It offered superior brakes & handling to the Cad, but that was really about it. The Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud 3, was, by '65, painfully obsolete. You MIGHT be able to carry 5 people in it, but one would likely be happier if he stayed home. The Silver Shadow, launched in late '65, was more of a competitor for the Caddy than the Cloud was, but a man would be hard pressed to HONESTLY tell which vehicle was "Better".

People snort w/derision at the old Yankee "Battle Cruisers" of yore, but they WERE impressive machines any way you cut it.
The Sugarland Express. Need I say more?

Another place we had the Yuropeans beat was style. Take even the nicest Rolls (with their "I'm the 10th generation Earl of nopshamshire, and I'm given a tremendous amount of wealth to sit on my but eating grapes all day and be a powerless symbol of power") or Mercedes (with their borderline utilitarian styling that historically has said "Ya, ve ship um to oter countries to oosed as taxis, but add uns radio, air counditioner, ands switch ze interior to leather, ship um to America, put out some sphiel and sey actually pay quadrupple ze price. ha ha"). Compare that to say a 59-60 (hell anything they made from the mid 30's to the mid 70's for that matter) caddy that says "I'm a reasonably well to do American I'm going places, and I don't just want some stick up the but luxury car...I want a rocket ship! We're going to the moon, and I want a car that looks like it's trying to get there."

Mopar and FoMoCo (tempted to switch the F and M to see if anybody notices...) made some nice luxury cars too. The late 50's to early 60's Imperials (even more so their lower lines) had some real cool styling especially the last of the finned imperials, and some of the mid to mid to late 60's imperials had this look to them that I can only quantify as being like someone made a late 60's modern styled Zenith TV in to a car...The just have that same sort of appealing look to them. I like the 40's Lincolns, and some of their 60's offerings, the 70's Marks, and the late 70's continentals, but most of their other offerings feel like the designers were told take any impression of 'fun' out of the styling...Some of the recent Ford and Lincoln cars are interesting looking though, and if I was given money told that I had to buy my self a new car I'd probably look at those first.

Another place we had the Yuropeans beat was style. Take even the nicest Rolls (with their "I'm the 10th generation Earl of nopshamshire, and I'm given a tremendous amount of wealth to sit on my but eating grapes all day and be a powerless symbol of power")
That pretty much defines Great Britain's royal family.

Prime Minister Trudeau met the queen in cutoffs and sandals. How I would have loved to have seen the look on her face.

That pretty much defines Great Britain's royal family.

Prime Minister Trudeau met the queen in cutoffs and sandals. How I would have loved to have seen the look on her face.

It was the same look as when the 15yr. old kid leaned in on the red carpet to
squeeze off a self-pic of him with the Queen in the background......

I remember that story went around the world twice....

.

Neat car, Tom. Quite the cruiser.

But, you will need some weight over those rear tires for winter. About 300# should do it. Water softener salt, sand, whatever. You will need it. Keeping the tank full will help too. With old RWD cars, it's getting going that's the issue. Once you are going, it's not hard to keep going. And in my opinion, they are usually easier to control on ice than front drive.

I'm sure you a great driver but being a new driver, remember when it's snowy and icy, when you start to skid, try to steer your way our of trouble as much as possible. You have no ABS so lightly pumping the brakes may be the best way to stop sometimes.

I have been driving noting but RWD cars for 99% of my adult life, and served part-time as a pizza delivery driver on and off for probably 10+ years. So I have spent more hours than your average cat behind the wheel of RWD land yachts.

Anywho, the best thing I can recommend, is find a big open parking lot when the weather gets bad and go play. Drift it, spin it, lock up the brakes. Do all those things, not just because its fun, but you will get a feel for what it takes for the car to get out of control. You will see how your brakes react under slippery conditions (RWD cars sometimes need the rear brakes adjusted because the fronts lock up first- this is something you will never notice on dry ground). You will see how fast you can take a turn before you lose traction. All these things are necessary to learn. Plus, you won't freak out if it happens in real life if you have had some practice in a controlled environment.

Plus, it will give you some experience making up excuses to tell the cops when you get busted. Not to mention unnecessary wear and tear on your car. Not a good idea.

Another place we had the Yuropeans beat was style. Take even the nicest Rolls (with their "I'm the 10th generation Earl of nopshamshire, and I'm given a tremendous amount of wealth to sit on my but eating grapes all day and be a powerless symbol of power") or Mercedes (with their borderline utilitarian styling that historically has said "Ya, ve ship um to oter countries to oosed as taxis, but add uns radio, air counditioner, ands switch ze interior to leather, ship um to America, put out some sphiel and sey actually pay quadrupple ze price. ha ha"). Compare that to say a 59-60 (hell anything they made from the mid 30's to the mid 70's for that matter) caddy that says "I'm a reasonably well to do American I'm going places, and I don't just want some stick up the but luxury car...I want a rocket ship! We're going to the moon, and I want a car that looks like it's trying to get there."

Mopar and FoMoCo (tempted to switch the F and M to see if anybody notices...) made some nice luxury cars too. The late 50's to early 60's Imperials (even more so their lower lines) had some real cool styling especially the last of the finned imperials, and some of the mid to mid to late 60's imperials had this look to them that I can only quantify as being like someone made a late 60's modern styled Zenith TV in to a car...The just have that same sort of appealing look to them. I like the 40's Lincolns, and some of their 60's offerings, the 70's Marks, and the late 70's continentals, but most of their other offerings feel like the designers were told take any impression of 'fun' out of the styling...Some of the recent Ford and Lincoln cars are interesting looking though, and if I was given money told that I had to buy my self a new car I'd probably look at those first.

Tom! There was a firm in Milwaukee, years ago, that named their concern "MoFoCo". IIRC, it was an auto body or repair shop. Back then, we always thought it was a play on words for FoMoCo. :D

Tom! There was a firm in Milwaukee, years ago, that named their concern "MoFoCo". IIRC, it was an auto body or repair shop. Back then, we always thought it was a play on words for FoMoCo. :D
Still around. MOtors FOr COmpetition

http://www.mofoco.com/

.

Plus, it will give you some experience making up excuses to tell the cops when you get busted. Not to mention unnecessary wear and tear on your car. Not a good idea.

*Sigh*

Just to clarify, I don't mean beating the heck out of it. Spinning the tires (at a reasonable RPM), doing doughnuts and locking the brakes up, all while in the snow doesn't create any real wear and tear. And I don't suggest "playing" in a lot close to traffic, in the city, or a lot with a bunch of poles. C'mon, I thought these things were common sense. If you do a doughnut in an icy parking lot and something breaks, it wasn't road worthy in the first place.

I come from a "worst case scenario" type upbringing. That's how my dad taught me to deal with snow and ice. Get out there and get a feel for it.

He taught me to drive a stick shift in a similar manner. He let me get used to shifting and working the clutch in a nice flat gravel lot. After I got a feel for it, we went out in the country and he made me stop in the middle of the steepest hill we could find, and practice taking off without rolling back wards.

The logic being, most situations won't be that intense, and it will seem like "nothing" to drive day-to-day after you master the tough stuff.

Everybody is so scared, angry, or distracted while driving nowadays. People forget how fun driving can be. I love to drive.

*Sigh*

Just to clarify, I don't mean beating the heck out of it. Spinning the tires (at a reasonable RPM), doing doughnuts and locking the brakes up, all while in the snow doesn't create any real wear and tear. And I don't suggest "playing" in a lot close to traffic, in the city, or a lot with a bunch of poles. C'mon, I thought these things were common sense. If you do a doughnut in an icy parking lot and something breaks, it wasn't road worthy in the first place.

I come from a "worst case scenario" type upbringing. That's how my dad taught me to deal with snow and ice. Get out there and get a feel for it.

He taught me to drive a stick shift in a similar manner. He let me get used to shifting and working the clutch in a nice flat gravel lot. After I got a feel for it, we went out in the country and he made me stop in the middle of the steepest hill we could find, and practice taking off without rolling back wards.

The logic being, most situations won't be that intense, and it will seem like "nothing" to drive day-to-day after you master the tough stuff.

Everybody is so scared, angry, or distracted while driving nowadays. People forget how fun driving can be. I love to drive.
I was a little older than most of you people, when I got my D/L and first car. My parents didn't own a car, as we lived in the city and my father felt, he didn't need one. They didn't mind using public transportation. Myself, I hated it with a passion, especially in bad weather.
My first car had a manual transmission, because it was less expensive to buy. For me, the clutching was the hardest to get the feel of. Right now, I'm back to a manual, for my daily driver.

*Sigh*

Just to clarify, I don't mean beating the heck out of it. Spinning the tires (at a reasonable RPM), doing doughnuts and locking the brakes up, all while in the snow doesn't create any real wear and tear. And I don't suggest "playing" in a lot close to traffic, in the city, or a lot with a bunch of poles. C'mon, I thought these things were common sense. If you do a doughnut in an icy parking lot and something breaks, it wasn't road worthy in the first place.

I come from a "worst case scenario" type upbringing. That's how my dad taught me to deal with snow and ice. Get out there and get a feel for it.

He taught me to drive a stick shift in a similar manner. He let me get used to shifting and working the clutch in a nice flat gravel lot. After I got a feel for it, we went out in the country and he made me stop in the middle of the steepest hill we could find, and practice taking off without rolling back wards.

The logic being, most situations won't be that intense, and it will seem like "nothing" to drive day-to-day after you master the tough stuff.

Everybody is so scared, angry, or distracted while driving nowadays. People forget how fun driving can be. I love to drive.

"Sigh" Common sense is not driving like an idiot. If you think doing donuts and locking up the brakes is common sense, then more power to you. You drive and do what you think is right. You can help pay for his tickets for exhibition driving if he follows your advice. "Sigh"

I was already planing to do something like that. I'm an easy does it kind of a guy. I'll probably see what the minimum it takes to slide is, and practice dealing with a pinch more than that. Finding a good lot in reasonable driving distance will be the tricky part...The roads are hilly and twisty for the most part so the longer the journey the more the chances of unplanned/unwanted road practice. I doubt I'd get my self into trouble inadvertently on the road, since I've been accused of driving like an old man (a fair assessment of my technique IMO) before.

A friend has been trying to talk me into doing that stuff on a frozen lake in the coldest part of January when you see the ice fishers take their pickups, and multi-ton construction equipment :nutz: out on the ice, but I'm a bit apprehensive on that.
This same friend has done that in his Prelude before...

@GGregg: Thanks. I'm pretty sure it does not have ABS, but it was actually an option on my model...They called it 'Sure-trac', and it only 'modulated' the rear brakes. Lincoln offered ABS before any other major brand, and in the late 80's IIRC when the guberment wanted car makers to offer it they were the first to (re)introduce it.
Another option that Squirrel boy might get a kick outa (if he is still following this thread) is that among the available 'trailer towing package' options was adjustable air ride suspension according to the manual.

@ Dieseljeep + jim: Lol! That is not the first dumb thought I've had that someone beat me to thinking of.

Yesterday I bought the factory shop manuals off ebay, and today I went to the auto parts shop and got a 'weather/water proof car covering' (AKA a tarp), and floor mats. I had hoped to do that before it snowed on it again, but I was a bit too slow. I did make enough room to confirm it fits in the garage though (It should since the house is nearly the age as my car). And it will stay in the garage until the snow stops and and has melted off it.

Tom,
Don't do the lake ice thing (even though it is pretty fun). I remember doing 60 mph donuts on a lake when we were kids. We hit an ice ridge in the middle of the lake and broke the beads on three of the four tires. It was a long walk back to shore. And then we still had to drive back to the car and take three tires off and bring them back to the service station to air them back up. Ending ruining 2 of the tires, one of the rims, and screwing up the alignment big time.

Not me BTW, I was just along for the ride.

The parking lot thing is a great idea, no matter what some think. It will not hurt anything and gives you a feel for how your car skids, which will keep you out of trouble some day. ABS on the rear wheels is a good idea on RWD cars and the goal was to prevent a skid not necessarily decrease stopping ability. Since most people tend to slam on their brakes when they skid, which usually only makes matters worse, it makes sense. I'm not fond of a lot of the doo dads on newer cars but I do like ABS. Your lucky you don't have the optional air ride. It's quite expensive to rebuild, which it would need by now, and parts are not easy to find. Many were converted back to standard when the cars were only a few years old. Today's air ride systems are much more durable but a metal spring is still a lot longer lasting than a rubber bag.

And for those of you that think that driving on a lake is not a good idea, up here we have plowed roads on some lakes. The University in town uses it as a parking lot. The ice gets many feet thick and as long as you stay away from the river inlet and outlet (the Mississippi, which is really just a wide creek up here), you are fine.

Neat car, Tom. Quite the cruiser.

But, you will need some weight over those rear tires for winter. About 300# should do it. Water softener salt, sand, whatever. You will need it. Keeping the tank full will help too. With old RWD cars, it's getting going that's the issue. Once you are going, it's not hard to keep going. And in my opinion, they are usually easier to control on ice than front drive.

I'm sure you a great driver but being a new driver, remember when it's snowy and icy, when you start to skid, try to steer your way our of trouble as much as possible. You have no ABS so lightly pumping the brakes may be the best way to stop sometimes.
In this area, we got our first taste of winter driving. Most people living around here, still have to re-learn driving on slipperly roads. More crazy accidents on the freeway. Trucks and cell phoning "yuppie types". :yes:

I have not been behind the wheel on any slip trips yet but I've been passenger on a few so far...The first snows of the year have been bad enough that I've seen both of my folks, who are normally fairly good winter drivers, do some mild sliding and wheel spinning.

ggregg: What you mention is similar to a good part of my worry about lake driving. There are a lot of ice fishermen around here, and the possibility of hitting an abandoned fishin hole at any speed don't seem too appealing to me.

If this year goes like last year (I hope not) I might have my own personal ice patch to play with anyway. Our drive way slopes towards the house from the street to just over a car length away from the garage where it levels out. Last year I was too busy to run the snow blower, and the folks never picked up the slack. Eventually the snow packed down to become a big sheet of ice. I can remember being in the passenger seat as my dad had his Accord in reverse and revved pretty good while we were sliding forward at a good pace...That finally convinced them to salt ONCE. A college buddy visited in his plow truck and had to engage the 4 wheel drive to get out around then too.
Scarier than that is the hill our road runs up the face of. It is about 3-6 stories tall over 1-2 blocks, the grade varies along it, it is not always kept deiced, at the bottom it turns sharply, and there is only a persons yard between said curve and Pewaukee lake...

For rear ballast I might grab some of the unused bags of top soil the folks leave outside every winter (provided they have not frozen to the ground yet) after buying too much every spring. I don't want to try any softener salt as I have seen what it does to metal things in the softener room, and to a lesser extent my basement storage adjacent to it :( .

I have not been behind the wheel on any slip trips yet but I've been passenger on a few so far...The first snows of the year have been bad enough that I've seen both of my folks, who are normally fairly good winter drivers, do some mild sliding and wheel spinning.

ggregg: What you mention is similar to a good part of my worry about lake driving. There are a lot of ice fishermen around here, and the possibility of hitting an abandoned fishin hole at any speed don't seem too appealing to me.

If this year goes like last year (I hope not) I might have my own personal ice patch to play with anyway. Our drive way slopes towards the house from the street to just over a car length away from the garage where it levels out. Last year I was too busy to run the snow blower, and the folks never picked up the slack. Eventually the snow packed down to become a big sheet of ice. I can remember being in the passenger seat as my dad had his Accord in reverse and revved pretty good while we were sliding forward at a good pace...That finally convinced them to salt ONCE. A college buddy visited in his plow truck and had to engage the 4 wheel drive to get out around then too.
Scarier than that is the hill our road runs up the face of. It is about 3-6 stories tall over 1-2 blocks, the grade varies along it, it is not always kept deiced, at the bottom it turns sharply, and there is only a persons yard between said curve and Pewaukee lake...

For rear ballast I might grab some of the unused bags of top soil the folks leave outside every winter (provided they have not frozen to the ground yet) after buying too much every spring. I don't want to try any softener salt as I have seen what it does to metal things in the softener room, and to a lesser extent my basement storage adjacent to it :( .
I leave my softener salt in the garage, unopened, until use.
I hate rust-bucket radios and chassis. :D

We usually just buy a bag when low and dump it in as soon as we get home, so the bags rarely sit with their contents inside...But the salt dust cloud that is created when we dump them can't be completely contained...Leading to gradual rusting especially of things in/near the softener room. We would not even use the darn softener save for the fact that the ground water here is SATURATED with iron/rust, and even with the iron out pellets our plumbing fixtures tend to get rust stains often. I've often wondered why there is not an iron mine in the area AFAIK.

We usually just buy a bag when low and dump it in as soon as we get home, so the bags rarely sit with their contents inside...But the salt dust cloud that is created when we dump them can't be completely contained...Leading to gradual rusting especially of things in/near the softener room. We would not even use the darn softener save for the fact that the ground water here is SATURATED with iron/rust, and even with the iron out pellets our plumbing fixtures tend to get rust stains often. I've often wondered why there is not an iron mine in the area AFAIK.

Do you find that problem with the nuggets. They refer to it as "Solar Salt".
I usually buy, whatevers on sale. If you look at the water piping circuit in the basement, you'll find, that the toilets and the cold water on the kitchen sink are not softened.
For drinking, coffee and cooking water, I use a Brita filter pitcher. :thmbsp:

If you look at the water piping circuit in the basement, you'll find, that the toilets and the cold water on the kitchen sink are not softened.

Maybe, but not always.

In my house (built 1993) the only hard water is plumbed directly to only the outdoor hose bibs.

My father's house (built 1954) had a third faucet valve added at the kitchen sink to allow for unsoftened drinking & cooking water. The only other hard water connections in his home ran to his outdoor hose bibs.

Neither home had hard water running to the toilets, and I can't see why anyone would want that. Toilets would likely be the first to show rust staining, and the homeowner would constantly have to be fighting that.

.

We usually just buy a bag when low and dump it in as soon as we get home, so the bags rarely sit with their contents inside...But the salt dust cloud that is created when we dump them can't be completely contained...Leading to gradual rusting especially of things in/near the softener room. We would not even use the darn softener save for the fact that the ground water here is SATURATED with iron/rust, and even with the iron out pellets our plumbing fixtures tend to get rust stains often. I've often wondered why there is not an iron mine in the area AFAIK.

Guys, guys, I mean unopened,completely sealed bags. No corrosion to worry about, as long as you don't cut or rip the bag and they are pretty strong these days. Open them and dump it in the softener in the spring.

You don't need salt. Anything will work but the smaller and the heavier it is, the better. 200-300# makes a big difference. Put in in the front of the trunk, as close to directly over the rear axle as you can get. It makes a big difference on rear wheel drive. Up here you can buy bags of sand and that works well but then you have to figure out what to do with it in the spring, or find dry storage until next winter. If your not driving in the slop and waiting until the roads are dried off then you won't need it though.

Either way, enjoy your new wheels. That is a beautiful car and it's in wonderful shape. I'm kinda jealous but I sold my motorcycle and bought a 1992 Saab 900 convertible so I have a new toy to play with in the spring. Drove it home and right into storage. This is the fourth 900 Turbo I've had over the years but the first convertible. Some people think I'm nuts but I really like those first generation 900 Turbos. And this one was too cheap to pass up although it does need some work, but nothing serious. Every time I post a photo with my phone the darn thing shows up sideways.

Only the hoses are connected to the hard water. We also had the fridge connected, but have yet to turn the valve on! The main reason to keep the rust out is that whites come out of the laundry orange-ish otherwise.

I have put three 40lb bags of soil into the trunk, and if I can find anything else that is small, heavy, and not fragile/important to me I'll add that too. Maybe I should round up some Polka and Classical 78's (that I had to buy to get some swing records I wanted) I've got laying around and throw them in.

polka records, LOL.

On Saturday I got the correct Quad 8-track car radio from Adam. It was working good in all aspects, but I just had to replace the chopped off wiring harness at the internal solder joints (for neatness), which entailed pulling the tuner board....Well the AM band is now dead unless I touch some traces on the board and let my body be the antenna. :sigh: I'd just about kill for the sams for this radio. I know where the antenna connects to this board, but I don't know how it connects to the AM section (it goes in to the FM section can and has no obvious connection to the AM section). Perhaps the freakiest thing is that I see no obvious connections between the FM section and the tuning mechanism (yet that part works)! I'm beginning to think this radio runs on magic, and I let out the AM sections pixie dust when I opened it....

If anyone can find me a schematic for this Motorola sourced car radio I'll owe you a beer.

I keep my extra bags of snow-melting salt in my trunk.

I'm actually surprised that radio worked at all. I don't have the schematics.

And I like polka records!

Nice Mark there Tom, I was wondering what car a true VK'er would select, and I think I may know why...besides all the electric gadgets.
Does it have the standard deep trunk that most Fords did? I used to wonder if a normal-sized roundie console would fit in those trunks?:D

With gas prices going down, you made a fine selection of ride there. I just hope you dont have to drive 86 miles round trip to work like I do. :thumbsdn:

One obstacle to better mpg may simply be the three-speed automatic transmission, likely the smooth but tough FoMoCo C-6.
The stock whisper-quiet exhaust, emissions-optimized carburetor and torque-optimized camshaft have an effect as well, but where to upgrade any/all of these and have a meaningful effect on mileage is up for much debate. I have not seen a good cost-benefit ratio to changing these components.

My first car was a 1973 Fury II small-town police cruiser with a 400 (bored out 383) and stock 2 barrel Holley carburetor with single exhaust.
It carried all manner of rescued sets in the trunk and had a Pioneer Supertuner 8-track player with Magnavox 6x9 speakers.
The gas mileage was only 10-12 and everyone in those angst-filled days blamed this on emissions controls and crappy gas which had just doubled in price. Most post-1971 vehicles were hastily adapted (not re-designed) to hit bechmarks of the CLEAN AIR ACT and use unleaded, low-octane gas. Automotive Engineers probably had NO input in crafting the clean air act because it would not have provided the instant gratification required of feel-good legislation.

Us reverse-tinkerers now know that the timing gearsets were "re-aligned", compression ratio reduced about 20% and various vacuum-operated controls were "fitted" to limit the emissions. Soon after came air-injection pumps, catalytic coverters and more weight.
The cars of the late 70s still had carburetors, requiring periodic adjustment and these add-on controls just made things worse when they malfunctioned. Many of us looked at the 1970 and earlier engines as easier to keep running right.
I have tried changing most everything (cam, exhaust, ignition, carburetor and higher compression heads) on my 1969 Grand Prix with a 1972 455-4V and it still gets a best of 12 mpg:sigh: due to sheer weight, so I put very little mileage on it. Now, if there was an overdrive kit for a THM 400 transmission to get those highway rpm's down....:smoke:

My best advice on getting better mpg is cheap;:smoke: replace vacuum hoses, get the carb cleaned up and all linkage free from sticking and advance the ignition timing until it pings (knocks) when climbing hills in warm weather (do only when using 87 octane gas) then back it off until the pings disappear.

Thanks!
The old TV repair gurus(VS a college electrical engineering student with an appreciation for classic tech like me) are more the true VK'ers in my book....Although if I was born some decades earlier I'm convinced I would have taken that route in life.

I could likely fit a roundy in the trunk, but I don't think it would close...

Only commute I have presently is ~25 miles to college. So gas should not be a killer.
I'm fairly sure it is a C6 transmission in it. I've never been behind the wheel of a manual equipped car. And only since a friend of mine got one have even known someone that presently has one....I considered possibly getting a manual equipped car when looking, but there were none that seemed worth the hassle of re-learning how to drive.

The electrical is going to be interesting. The high beams, miles to empty computer, and the power door locks are all not working. One of the interior turn signal indicator lights is intermittent too (the signal it's self is fine though). All that will be fun to trouble shoot for me....Though it ticks me off that the factory electrical manual lacks schematic detail of the workings of the radio and the miles to empty computer. Thanks to the manuals I bought I now know that the high beams could only be stuck on as they are if a relay/diode, wiring, or the foot switch are bad so it should be easy to fix.

I'll have to remember to change the vacuum hoses. When we have time a college buddy of mine who likes to work on cars and I are going to work on the tuning, though it seems fairly good presently. Last weekend we changed the oil, and did some work on the holes in the exhaust (it remains unfinished).

High beam is probably the switch. They took a lot of abuse. Locks, maybe relay or fuse. They are not vacuum like the old T-birds, are they? The signal will probably be very easy to fix once you can get to it. The computer, good luck with that one although it could be something as simple as an intermittent connection on the sensor.

Check every single vacuum hose on that car. It will take you some time, but you will be rewarded by a smoother running engine. Pay particular attention to the vacuum switch on the bottom of the steering column that operates the parking brake release. Those are notorious for leaking. If it's really bad, you'll notice a hissing noise when you put the transmission in drive.

Also, pay close attention to the thermal blower lockout switch. This is located in one of the heater hoses, and it keeps the heater blower from coming on until the car warms up enough to provide heat. Some of these switches are just electrical, but some versions also have a vacuum switch that is a common source of leaks.

If either of these switches are bad, you're about as well off to plug the lines than to replace it. These parts are available aftermarket at most parts stores, but they're cheap imports that won't hold up. Last year, I spent $40 to replace the parking brake vacuum switch because I'm so particular about everything working on my Lincoln. It's a pain to get to, a bigger pain to get the screws out, and after I replaced it the new switch was hissing intermittently in just a few months.

And congrats on the purchase of a fine looking car. I've been a Lincoln guy all my life, and have loved every single one I've owned. I have two now, my 2001 Town Car daily driver (191,000 trouble free miles) and my 1989 Town Car weekend cruiser (a 69,000 mile "little old lady car).

To be quite honest, I like driving the 1989 better, and whenever I go out of town I always take it instead. By 1989 Lincolns had the fuel injected 5.0 V8 and most of the other modern dependability updates but retained the big, boxy styling that defined the brand from 1962 until 1989. To me, 1989 was the last year of the classic "Lincoln look" as the 1990 re-style rounded things off a lot. The last Town Car re-style in 1998 took the rounded off style and made it look "bloated". Not necessarily ugly, but definitely not the "Lincoln look" they were known for.

Hey EM; if yer ever lookin for the best bolt on mpg upgrade for that car, made by ford,
get a 7200, or 7600 VV carb. The 7200 variable venturi was all vacuum operated, and
the 7600 variable venturi was stepper motor electronic feedback carb. Both almost
easy bolt on directly to a factory 2bbl manifold. I think you got a 2 bbl right....?

I said it here before, I put one on my '73 351C mustang and went from 9mpg town
13mpg hwy, to 16 around town, to just under 21 highway.... 55, no floorin it off lights.

The 7600 uses a 5 wire 15 degree stepper motor and you can easily figure out the
wiring and set yerself up a in the car controller with a few IC's and some driver transistors.
Or go nuts and add a O2 sensor and make it semi automatic.... I did add the O2 sensor,
I had a Radio Control Plane servo running the spark advance, and I could
also set that from inside the car.... So easy to set it for highway or local spark.

It started quicker, ran better, had less spark plug problems, "dial-a-ping" was what I
called my spark advance.....

The only problem is that those carbs did not have a direct spark advance
port like a regular 2bbl, it was derived from a buncha other things..... Funny
that the 7200 would always just about to ping with no knock sensor that I knew
of on our '79 LTD wagon, and run good and get 26mpg on the highway....
It was the first year redesigh, but still the big one, not the mini-LTD.... 302 v8..

As an electronics person, you can easily set up the same stuff I did, once you find where
everything works best, it's just a matter of hard wiring a matrex to follow at different
speeds......

I guess if you wanted....... you could always get fuel injection......
and a 4 speed auto.......
.

Thanks for the ideas!

David: She does hiss for a moment when the vacuum parking brake release is activated, and does the same thing when the headlights, and certain climate control lever settings are activated. The Vacuum lines will likely be a project for the early spring as it is not fun tinkering in the freezing cold. I wonder if that would make it idle smoother?

Squirrel boy: IIRC it is equipped with a 2 barrel autolite carb so it may be possible to do what you suggest. If you did that mod any time in the recent past then I'm surprised that you did not take a knock sensor off a newer car and use a micro-controller, analog amplifier or some such to auto-tune out the ping. It could be an interesting summer project to try that out. An Arduino MCU board, some switching transistors, that carb, servos, the right sensors, and a decent control code and it could probably tune it's self. If come summer I still feel like keeping it then I'll probably start looking into doing this or fitting the fuel injection parts off of one of the last 90's era trucks to use the same engine block as mine.

As she is now I drive her about once a week for odd errands, and I'm thinking of commuting to school in her on the one day a week that I have late starting classes. Other days I'd probably have to get up 30 minutes early to make it there on time driving my self, and I need all the sleep I can get most days.

I need to get on the high beams soon. I just started this quarter of school, and have been busy reorganizing my AV racks....Squirrel boy, you know the audiophile olympics...I'll have to post about it when I'm done (which I basically am).

A vacuum leak, if bad enough, will certainly make it run rough. It can also have unwanted effects on the climate control operation. For instance, when the thermal blower lockout switch started leaking on mine, I knew about it because whenever I stepped on the accelerator with the A/C on, the air warmed up because of insufficient vacuum to keep the blend door actuator pulled shut.

I have always heard that in addition to causing rough idle, that vacuum leaks will cause a slight reduction in fuel economy.

On your Lincoln, the slight vacuum hiss when the headlight switch is pulled or climate control lever operating is normal, and nothing to be concerned about. On your parking brake, there is a vacuum actuator that pulls in when the car is put in drive. If this is leaking, you will hear a constant hissing whenever the car is in drive. Vacuum to this actuator is through a switch on the bottom of the steering column. To check these, just get under the dash near the bottom of the steering column and have a helper to shift through all the gears. There should ne no constant hissing at any time near the switch assembly. If it's leaking, the "quick and dirty" fix is to remove the two vacuum hoses and plug them with golf tees.

Well I finally fixed the high beam dimmer! :banana:

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/headlamp_zpsdafb53bc.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/headlamp_zpsdafb53bc.jpg.html)

The symptoms told me the relay was not closing so it had to be the foot switch, the relay or the two interconnect wires. I started at the foot switch since that was the easiest thing to locate. The switch was good so it became a game of find the relay....They were nice enough to dip the wires to the relay down below a piece of sheet metal which threw me off for a bit, but at least the relay was close by and easy to get at. The wiring was fine, but the relay was not....

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/DSCN5253_zps670c0c63.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/DSCN5253_zps670c0c63.jpg.html)

The coil was open on the relay. Well I hit up the local Autozone and they did not have it or any part number for it, or even the motivation to try to find a 20A DPST relay that I could kludge in. Next I checked Radio Snack but they were out of automotive grade relays...After not finding anything on the net, or any 12V relays in my parts stash I came up with two options...Fix the open coil or kludge in a 6V DP-tripple throw relay (with the contacts in parallel to match the current rating) with a resistor in series with the coil to drop half the input voltage. The repair seems to have worked.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/DSCN5259_zps76b4f7ab.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/DSCN5259_zps76b4f7ab.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/DSCN5256_zps166d2454.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/DSCN5256_zps166d2454.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/DSCN5255_zpsb956d574.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/DSCN5255_zpsb956d574.jpg.html)

The open was in the lead in wire to the coil (corrosion), but was near the center of the winding which forced me to drill out the rivet for the center terminal which also happens to be the core for the coil...After I got the core out unwinding the coil took me about an hour. Rewinding it proved to be quick though. I chucked the core into a drill plugged into a variac to reduce the speed to a safe and manageable one. A bunch of soldering (including replacing the crimp end of the rivet with solder) later and I obtained a working product.
One of the connectors to the relay is a bit finicky, but once in the right place seems okay.
I love that it cost me no money, but it cost enough time that I sort of wish I'd have been able to buy a replacement...I had been planing to swap in a stereo 8-track (until I can get a good quad 8-track) today (well technically yesterday now that it's 2:00AM :eek: ) but will have to get to that later.

Hope I didn't bore ya too badly.:boring:

Clever for sure, but you're right, it would have been better to pay for a new part than invest all that time in fixing that one.

I can relate; I was given a new-in-box power supply for my PC build, but the trouble it caused me was not worth the savings. The system was shutting itself off randomly and often, and I checked everything *but* the power supply just because it was new. That off-brand has a very poor reputation and mine was no exception. I finally swapped in the Thermaltake unit that I was saving for a quad-core build.

Well I finally fixed the high beam dimmer! :banana:

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/headlamp_zpsdafb53bc.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/headlamp_zpsdafb53bc.jpg.html)

The symptoms told me the relay was not closing so it had to be the foot switch, the relay or the two interconnect wires. I started at the foot switch since that was the easiest thing to locate. The switch was good so it became a game of find the relay....They were nice enough to dip the wires to the relay down below a piece of sheet metal which threw me off for a bit, but at least the relay was close by and easy to get at. The wiring was fine, but the relay was not....

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/DSCN5253_zps670c0c63.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/DSCN5253_zps670c0c63.jpg.html)

The coil was open on the relay. Well I hit up the local Autozone and they did not have it or any part number for it, or even the motivation to try to find a 20A DPST relay that I could kludge in. Next I checked Radio Snack but they were out of automotive grade relays...After not finding anything on the net, or any 12V relays in my parts stash I came up with two options...Fix the open coil or kludge in a 6V DP-tripple throw relay (with the contacts in parallel to match the current rating) with a resistor in series with the coil to drop half the input voltage. The repair seems to have worked.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/DSCN5259_zps76b4f7ab.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/DSCN5259_zps76b4f7ab.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/DSCN5256_zps166d2454.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/DSCN5256_zps166d2454.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/DSCN5255_zpsb956d574.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/DSCN5255_zpsb956d574.jpg.html)

The open was in the lead in wire to the coil (corrosion), but was near the center of the winding which forced me to drill out the rivet for the center terminal which also happens to be the core for the coil...After I got the core out unwinding the coil took me about an hour. Rewinding it proved to be quick though. I chucked the core into a drill plugged into a variac to reduce the speed to a safe and manageable one. A bunch of soldering (including replacing the crimp end of the rivet with solder) later and I obtained a working product.
One of the connectors to the relay is a bit finicky, but once in the right place seems okay.
I love that it cost me no money, but it cost enough time that I sort of wish I'd have been able to buy a replacement...I had been planing to swap in a stereo 8-track (until I can get a good quad 8-track) today (well technically yesterday now that it's 2:00AM :eek: ) but will have to get to that later.

Hope I didn't bore ya too badly.:boring:
The relay is a Guide Lamp product, which is or was owned by GM.
They should have looked under Cadillac or Oldsmobile.
Anyway, it turned out fine, but very labor intensive. :sigh:

Impersonating the voice of Doc Brown from back to the future: 'No wonder this part failed, it says made by GM'...
I had to start watching TV about 20 minutes into the coil work to avoid death by boredom...
It would seem the previous owner or the guy before him had discovered the bad relay since when I found it it was VERY loosely bolted in.

Well the 8-track radio I was going to install until I can get a working quad unit together must have felt sorry for the quad since it did nearly the same thing...It's FM band worked for just a bit during testing (just long enough to tease me) in preparation for installation then after checking the AM went dead. UGH! The two units now compliment each other in malfunctions. I'm getting fed up to the point that I might just hack in a 90's radio/cassette player and be done with it. I'm not too keen on being limited to just AM-FM let alone the drifty one in my Lincoln currently...That thing is so bad that I practically have to drive with one hand on the tuning knob sometimes....Were all 70's car radios finicky heaps or have I just been finding all the bad ones?
I wonder if Muntz sold any tube AM-FM/4-track tape car stereos?...Those I could at least properly trouble shoot and repair without a schematic.

I say pick your battles - I messed with vintage car decks in my old 60s trucks, but in my current ride (1986 toyota diesel pickup) I put in a brand new alpine. It sounds fantastic and works perfectly... Yeah kind of an eyesore in the dash but I can't make every single aspect of life into a project. It was like $80 brand new and an hour to install.

That car is really nice and given the substantial cabin, smooth engine and lack of road noise if you outfitted it with a modern car stereo you could really make it rock... Car stereos from before the mid 80s just weren't "there yet" like the vintage home stereo gear was in my opinion.

Also if you have some power to spare you can get better speakers with a lower resonant frequency and synthetic cone material, for another upgrade over the cheap paper cone 6x9 s

I had a couple of dud Ford 8-track stereos way back when. They were poorly-installed retrofits. That was before the internet and eBay became popular so I didn't get my hands on another one for a very long time. Of the six I have now, only one is in poor working condition. I think it's stuck on FM no matter what band switch is pushed in.

Now I just need to stop sitting on my hands in regards to getting the kind of component deck I want.

I happen to prefer the sound tube and early SS gear with no B class or below amplification to be found, and the FM and 8-track sections on the unit I was testing today sounded better then most newer car stereos I've heard with 70's Sony home speakers connected to it. My issue is that without a schematic trouble shooting goes from being a ~1 hour task to Russian Roulette (ie I'm just as likely to totally ruin it as fix it when working blind).

I'm glad most out there are still working good. If I was to plop down more than 20$ on a stereo I'd just buy another period unit with quad-8 track...Only in working condition or at least the same unit with different issues to let me compare voltages and find the problem.

A late 70s car stereo will be either a discrete transistor amplifier biased as close as humanly possible to class B, or an early IC power op amp. It's not a miniaturized Harmon kardon citation, it has more in common with a transistor table radio. Of course it can sound good, and of course quad 8 track is really neat... I only said why I went modern because time is finite and driving two hours every day without a properly working radio is really boring! Given unlimited time, my car would have a nakamichi 350 or an early 80s pioneer setup :)

A schematic should be easy to get, I have a Sams for both major revisions in my Ford stereo collection. I don't have any quad units though, never got into them.

Just for fun decided to start using google on your behalf and came up with this

http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/821/M0108821.htm

This is from '70. Class B transformer coupled power amplifier - not exactly the stuff dreams are made of, but in yours it will likely have done away with the transformers and be a quasi complementary symmetry design, so at least won't be bandwidth limited by the transformers. Power output will be rather severely limited by the low B+ voltage though, this is after all before the days of BTL amplifiers, or switch mode supplies, and another limit will be the fact these old decks need 8 ohm speakers rather than 4 ohms.

What could cause dead radio here? I would start with cleaning the tape/radio switch really well, and in yours the AM/FM switch. Also, the 8 track player will definitely be wanting a new belt if it's going to work long term.. even if the existing belt still works, it will doubtless be stretched and not achieving the best possible wow and flutter performance, and nobody wants to be installing and removing head units unnecessarily if it fails in use.

If it's not switches, it will be failing coupling capacitors. I have had very little luck with low value electrolytic capacitors in audio equipment from before 1980 still meeting spec. You would probably want to go ahead and just change them all out. Not a bad job though, the new ones are so cheap all it takes is some bench time. Once you get the switches and controls cleaned, the capacitors replaced, and a new belt, then you have to go about adjusting the tape head so that it doesn't hear the wrong tracks. This seems to be the Achilles heel of the format, as soon as I get my home player adjusted for one tape, it seems all out of whack for another tape for adjacent track bleed through. Then touch up the azimuth for best high frequency response, and you're about home free.

Then hope that the splices in your tapes aren't dried out, because if they are, the tape will break at the splice and you will end up with a mess on your hands. I picked up a roll of 1/4" foil splicing tape at radio shack back when they still carried it, but probably now you'd need some kind of kludge to make it work, and every single tape will have to be done. They also will need new foam pressure pads (for the cartridges using foam pressure pads), else you will have all sorts of flutter related problems and drop outs unless the cartridge is inserted just so. And if the tapes use rubber pinch rollers as opposed to the later plastic style, then this may be another problem - if it's dried out then the tape can slip and again reduce performance.

Add to this that at this stage in the game, the lubrication which keeps the continuous loop moving along is likely getting old, and the tape can bind and, well, again reduce performance.

I think that the 8 track format can have half decent performance when everything is optimized and tuned and operating at 100%, but keeping it that way is a giant pain which crosses the line into "not worth it" for me, especially considering that 95% of the 8 tracks I come across are music I have no interest in.

Cassette on the other hand, while inherently limited by the slower speed, has the same track width as 8 track, and a much better situation in terms of maintainability and media availability. It's also nice that you can buy blank tapes any time you want, instead of trying to keep old ones together with spit and chewing gum, and suffering either constant failures, or a never ending maintenance nightmare as your collection expands.

I think the only situation in which I would want a functional 8 track player in my vehicle, would be a collector's car which originally came with one. For example, if I had the good fortune to own a '66 T-Bird, and it had the factory 8 track deck, I would move mountains to make sure it worked perfectly and I had the best 8 track collection going - as a retrofit though I don't really see it being worth the effort, especially since by the time your car was made, cassette was already starting to take over and 8 track was in terminal decline.

It depends on how much you like 8-tracks really. I got my first 8-track player in late '90 or early '91 and was instantly hooked.

My newest Ford 8-track stereo is a 1983 model. With the proper knobs that one would look right at home in the dash of a 1984 Mercury Lynx; the texture of the plastic of the stereo face matches that of the dash bezel. It would plug right into the factory harness too.

It depends on how much you like 8-tracks really.
.

Now that is a very good point!

Pure class B audio should theoretically never exist. It always has to be at least slightly into class AB in order to prevent highly noticeable/objectionable crossover distortion, and I can't imagine any properly working piece of audio gear that would be designed to be pure class B.

My radios are both newer designs having ICs in the output and tuner stages. The one in that link looks like an early 60's design that was modified to allow for a tape system to be added.

I tried the switch on the stereo unit, and I can't definitely locate it in the Quad unit.

I don't have a source of proven caps for transistor gear, and don't have an ESR meter to check what I have so a shotgun recap would likely just create new problems....Also the troubles are somewhat intermittent which makes signal tracing/injection trouble shooting a must.

I've maintained several home 8-track decks and a healthy collection of tapes for over a decade now so I know what that entails. I collect recording formats, and love messing with an unusual format or mechanism. Also I know many shortcuts such as ordinary clear scotch tape and or super glue to fix the foil splices (less than a 10 minute job for me.)

I listen to 30's-80's popular music almost exclusively so most of what I care about is represented, and I have a home deck so if I don't have or can't find what I want I can just dub a new tape. I also have cassette to 8-track adapters (some of which I view as poorly as you view 8-tracks) of varying quality. With one of those the machine becomes dual format, and if I add a one of those CD to cassette adapters (you know the 'cassettes' with the 1/8" stereo phone jack coming out of them) the number of formats I could attach becomes only limited by my desire to do so.

My big problem getting a correct schematic was that the model numbers were obliterated on my units, but I got a good idea since my last post....I looked up my machines on ebay (since they are both factory correct options for my car it was easy), and lifted pictures of the model #s, and from that found that they are in sam's AR-228, and AR-333...Now to find someone with those manuals that don't want 44$ for the pair like the sam's web site does.

BTW it was not until the model year after my car was made that Lincoln started offering cassettes in that model, and not until the early 80's that the quad 8-track units stopped being offered despite quad being essentially dead in the market place by the time my car was made.

Pure class B audio should theoretically never exist. It always has to be at least slightly into class AB in order to prevent highly noticeable/objectionable crossover distortion, and I can't imagine any properly working piece of audio gear that would be designed to be pure class B.

My radios are both newer designs having ICs in the output and tuner stages. The one in that link looks like an early 60's design that was modified to allow for a tape system to be added.

I tried the switch on the stereo unit, and I can't definitely locate it in the Quad unit.

I don't have a source of proven caps for transistor gear, and don't have an ESR meter to check what I have so a shotgun recap would likely just create new problems....Also the troubles are somewhat intermittent which makes signal tracing/injection trouble shooting a must.

I've maintained several home 8-track decks and a healthy collection of tapes for over a decade now so I know what that entails. I collect recording formats, and love messing with an unusual format or mechanism. Also I know many shortcuts such as ordinary clear scotch tape and or super glue to fix the foil splices (less than a 10 minute job for me.)

I listen to 30's-80's popular music almost exclusively so most of what I care about is represented, and I have a home deck so if I don't have or can't find what I want I can just dub a new tape. I also have cassette to 8-track adapters (some of which I view as poorly as you view 8-tracks) of varying quality. With one of those the machine becomes dual format, and if I add a one of those CD to cassette adapters (you know the 'cassettes' with the 1/8" stereo phone jack coming out of them) the number of formats I could attach becomes only limited by my desire to do so.

My big problem getting a correct schematic was that the model numbers were obliterated on my units, but I got a good idea since my last post....I looked up my machines on ebay (since they are both factory correct options for my car it was easy), and lifted pictures of the model #s, and from that found that they are in sam's AR-228, and AR-333...Now to find someone with those manuals that don't want 44$ for the pair like the sam's web site does.

BTW it was not until the model year after my car was made that Lincoln started offering cassettes in that model, and not until the early 80's that the quad 8-track units stopped being offered despite quad being essentially dead in the market place by the time my car was made.

I have a friend who has a 72 Lincoln Mark IV with the factory 8 track, in his the radio doesn't work but the 8 track does, and he is always listening to the same couple tapes. His is maroon, with a maroon and white leather interior. It has a Cartier clock in the dash! I have offered to repair it for him if he can remove it, I can't imagine being stuck without a working radio. Then again he only drives it on nice days. I've been preparing a script in my head for the eventual conversation "if you ever want to sell your Lincoln, please keep me in mind!" Hes a car collector so things are always coming and going but I know he especially likes the Lincoln. It's been way too long since my driveway was graced with the presence of some Detroit iron!

Yes of course the transistors won't be biased into full cutoff, or like you said crossover distortion would be abysmal, but they're also not exactly biased into the most linear region of the transistor either, because if they were it would harm efficiency too much.

It seems that every time I go into one of the boneyards around here, when you go into the office, they always seem to have some older high end GM and Ford radios already pulled and sitting around, if it's a yard that has been in business a long time. If not you could always walk around the yard and try to find one. Pretty sure higher end Ford and Mercury's had the same radio as an option.

I came of age during this period and of all the factory radios, the Philco-Ford ones sounded the best.

Also keep in mind that if you could find a period, aftermarket, stereo, many of them were underdash. Sometimes you could mount them using the exsisting dash mounting holes so you wouldn't be modifying anything. The absolute best one of the time was the original Pioneer supertuner with the round dial. Craig Powerplays, with their whopping 12 wpc, were also another option.

I now have a working car radio with 8-track! :banana:
I got the sam's for the quad radio some time ago, and finally stole a couple of hours to properly trouble shoot it....It turned out to be a VERY simple problem. The B+ for the 1st RF amp is fed to it through a tuned coil. That coil, and all other tuned inductors in the AM section connect to the board through a plug. One of the contacts in the plug broke and was open killing B+ to the 1st RF amp....Since the plug is an odd type that would be a pain to try and find a replacement for I bypassed the open pin with a single lead with a plug inline with it. Now the board can be completely unplugged and removed as before and it works properly. I'm almost surprised that I did not find it probing blind...I only removed and reconnected that plug 1-3 dozen times.

Now I just have to find another couple of hours to steal on a warmish day to swap in the new radio.

The auto dimming feature of the high beams seems to be dead, but the foot switch working is good enough for me. Still there is an inline fuse just for the light sensor/amp module that I have not checked yet.

Awesome!

You ought to keep a tape partially stuck in there whenever you park in a public lot. I'm certainly impressed by these rare sights. Last car I saw so equipped was a 1970 Plymouth Valiant Duster (the only year both names appeared on the same car) last summer. It was an aftermarket stereo, which I can forgive because an in-dash 8-track stereo was never offered in the Duster.

Interesting idea. I have the perfect tape for that too...I just recently realized that a box of 8-tracks I bought a few months before I got my Lincoln has the stereo version of the period correct Ford "Stereo for Today" cartridge....There was a quad tape of the same name.

That Plymouth must have been a cool site to see. The last 8-track equipped car I've been in the presence of was a Ranchero, or El Camino that had a Hurst His & Hers shifter. About a year ago at Volo.

worked for ford many years.the 70s thunderbirds had the best radios ever.quad systems were very rare but they produced the finest sound in car audio.my old 79 ltd landau had a really beautiful factory sound system.also owned some gms with the deatched 8 track units.decent performers.when the pinch roller bound up,i kept a cigarette in the glove box to roll the tape back in.had a malfunction one day and the famed cigarette was gone.gf smoked it the night before without my knowledge.she didnt know why it was there since i have never smoked

worked for ford many years.the 70s thunderbirds had the best radios ever.quad systems were very rare but they produced the finest sound in car audio.my old 79 ltd landau had a really beautiful factory sound system.also owned some gms with the deatched 8 track units.decent performers.when the pinch roller bound up,i kept a cigarette in the glove box to roll the tape back in.had a malfunction one day and the famed cigarette was gone.gf smoked it the night before without my knowledge.she didnt know why it was there since i have never smoked
Haha. :D Better than lighting up mostly-spent smokes found on the ground. I've seen that a few times around here.

Sampson, There were two Ford quad radio models made that I know of. I don't know about the electronically tuned ones, but the mechanically tuned ones like mine were made by Motorola, and they do sound remarkably good with a decent set of speakers.

Jon, you just just reminded me of a song I have not heard in ages, Roger Miller's 'King of the Road'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whUjCqCEYBo I did not think anyone actually followed that line about smoking old found stogies...

Jon, you just just reminded me of a song I have not heard in ages, Roger Miller's 'King of the Road'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whUjCqCEYBo I did not think anyone actually followed that line about smoking old found stogies...
I'm pretty sure I have heard that song, but I can't play it right now, I have no speakers on this computer yet.

At first I thought you were speaking of "King of the Open Road", which I had forgotten is by Red Sovine. I think that one was on the "Super Slab Hits" 8-track I had ages ago.

I decided to post some pictures of my work...
The before and after of the repair.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN5268_zpse20d7864.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN5268_zpse20d7864.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6447_zps7580d376.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6447_zps7580d376.jpg.html)
On further thought after that picture I decided to move the orange lead so that it would not touch any moving parts.

Since I have the manual as a source of (foolish?)confidence I decided to polish the outside rust off with Brasso and lacquer over the rusted areas to prevent re-rusting.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN5266_zpsba9ad86a.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN5266_zpsba9ad86a.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN5267_zps60c0165a.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN5267_zps60c0165a.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN5270_zps12d5bfdf.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN5270_zps12d5bfdf.jpg.html)

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6450_zps7ab349df.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6450_zps7ab349df.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6453_zpscab91850.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6453_zpscab91850.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6451_zps682367e1.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6451_zps682367e1.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6449_zps87bc0f10.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6449_zps87bc0f10.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6452_zpsa8f953d3.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6452_zpsa8f953d3.jpg.html)
I figure it is just a good idea to have as little exposed rust in the vehicle as possible.

That white .03 mfd cap in the third pic is bugging me, I can't even tell if it's part of the stereo. My understanding is that they should be replaced no matter what they're in.

That white .03 mfd cap in the third pic is bugging me, I can't even tell if it's part of the stereo. My understanding is that they should be replaced no matter what they're in.

It was un-replaced....I removed that cap from a tube amp, and because it was handy I used it to bypass the dead section of the tuner when I was flying blind without a schematic. That cap is gone now, and has been for some time.

The whether was warm and nice, and I was already outside variacing two new TVs I just got so I figured I'd do something between the periodic voltage increases.



Guess what I did?....


http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6478_zps7e5748ae.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6478_zps7e5748ae.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6479_zpsc4b5d10e.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6479_zpsc4b5d10e.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6482_zps92fbdc78.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6482_zps92fbdc78.jpg.html)

The Quad 8-track is in and working well. The thing sounds AWESOME!:music:
It was relatively straight forward to do. All I had to do was remove two clips holding the black vent below, remove knobs and the nuts behind them, remove the rear angle bracket, unplug it, and then reverse the process.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6481_zpsff6903d9.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6481_zpsff6903d9.jpg.html)

Of course there were complications like not checking to make sure the nuts that were supposed to be flush with the face of the radio were actually flush, and loosing track of the cars power connector for the radio...Both of which made me uninstall it and reinstall it one time a piece...

I learned somethings along the way too. The original radio may not be original. It had it's power connector cut and re-spliced*, and some funky clips and three wires added to the radio's speaker harness.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6483_zpsa904fa14.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6483_zpsa904fa14.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6485_zps4956f2d9.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6485_zps4956f2d9.jpg.html)

Also I found a plug electrical taped to a vacuum hose that I have no idea where it came from(but you can bet your but I'll find out), and two light sockets hanging behind the radio (which I'll also have to look into).
That plug is near enough to the dead miles to empty gauge that it makes me wonder.

*With orange wire nuts....Hey Squirrel boy THOSE orange wire nuts you mentioned earlier were actually on the radio's power wires.

And here is the dealer 8-track tape I have.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/f9662b9c-eff2-4f37-91fb-bd6f0d720c66_zps60bda2b0.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/f9662b9c-eff2-4f37-91fb-bd6f0d720c66_zps60bda2b0.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6491_zps5a9ca567.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6491_zps5a9ca567.jpg.html)

The whether was warm and nice, and I was already outside variacing two new TVs I just got so I figured I'd do something between the periodic voltage increases.



Guess what I did?....


http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6478_zps7e5748ae.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6478_zps7e5748ae.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6479_zpsc4b5d10e.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6479_zpsc4b5d10e.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6482_zps92fbdc78.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6482_zps92fbdc78.jpg.html)

The Quad 8-track is in and working well. The thing sounds AWESOME!:music:
It was relatively straight forward to do. All I had to do was remove two clips holding the black vent below, remove knobs and the nuts behind them, remove the rear angle bracket, unplug it, and then reverse the process.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6481_zpsff6903d9.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6481_zpsff6903d9.jpg.html)

Of course there were complications like not checking to make sure the nuts that were supposed to be flush with the face of the radio were actually flush, and loosing track of the cars power connector for the radio...Both of which made me uninstall it and reinstall it one time a piece...

I learned somethings along the way too. The original radio may not be original. It had it's power connector cut and re-spliced*, and some funky clips and three wires added to the radio's speaker harness.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6483_zpsa904fa14.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6483_zpsa904fa14.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6485_zps4956f2d9.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6485_zps4956f2d9.jpg.html)

Also I found a plug electrical taped to a vacuum hose that I have no idea where it came from(but you can bet your but I'll find out), and two light sockets hanging behind the radio (which I'll also have to look into).
That plug is near enough to the dead miles to empty gauge that it makes me wonder.

*With orange wire nuts....Hey Squirrel boy THOSE orange wire nuts you mentioned earlier were actually on the radio's power wires.

And here is the dealer 8-track tape I have.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/f9662b9c-eff2-4f37-91fb-bd6f0d720c66_zps60bda2b0.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/f9662b9c-eff2-4f37-91fb-bd6f0d720c66_zps60bda2b0.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6491_zps5a9ca567.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6491_zps5a9ca567.jpg.html)

Was the original radio a Philco product?
The Motorola built radios were a lot better. I think Motorola quit building OEM radios, around the mid 70's.

I think so. The sticker was gone, but a radio sticker saying Philco/Ford Aerospace division (found in quality planes and rockets everywhere :D ) materialized during my work.
I want to open the original and see how it looks inside.

There's a lot more open space inside the AM-FM radios. Notice the easy-access dial lamp socket, not to mention a single, bigger bulb.

Quad Ford tapes pop up on the 'bay all the time.

There's a lot more open space inside the AM-FM radios. Notice the easy-access dial lamp socket, not to mention a single, bigger bulb.

Quad Ford tapes pop up on the 'bay all the time.

I think you are right...From what I could see through the holes it looks like early-mid 60's build materials inside....So I'm curious and want to see more.

I know about the ones on the bay. The only reason I don't already own one is that I have the stereo cart already...I probably will buy one eventually though.

I re-capped the AM/FM (non-stereo) radio in my '73 Ford a few years back, and there is a lot more space in it than the tape deck models. The only issue I have is that it seems like the AFC on the FM band doesn't work too well. It just doesn't do a great job "locking in" on a station.

I re-capped the AM/FM (non-stereo) radio in my '73 Ford a few years back, and there is a lot more space in it than the tape deck models. The only issue I have is that it seems like the AFC on the FM band doesn't work too well. It just doesn't do a great job "locking in" on a station.

Have you checked the schematic to see if it actually has AFC? The old AM-FM radio I removed from my car acts like it does not have AFC, and I suspect that is the case.

It's good to see that radio put to good use rather than just sitting in a box in the basement. When I lived in Los Angeles I used to go to this junkyard that only charged $5 a radio, no matter what it was, so I pulled whatever I found interesting. I've since sold most of them, but still have a few boxes of those car radios.

I kind of hate to admit it, but the best sounding car stereo I've ever had is the factory radio/cd/cassette player in my 2003 Grand Marquis. But I did drive a 72 Impala for a while in which I swapped the original AM radio for an AM/FM stereo 8-track I got from another Impala in that junkyard. I never bothered putting in extra speakers though: I just hooked the front speaker to the right channel, and the rear to the left.

I think so. The sticker was gone, but a radio sticker saying Philco/Ford Aerospace division (found in quality planes and rockets everywhere :D ) materialized during my work.
I want to open the original and see how it looks inside.

I repaired one of those several years ago. They had two Centralab packaged electronic circuits, buried under the tuner assembly.
I'm willing to bet, they're NLA. :scratch2:

Have you checked the schematic to see if it actually has AFC? The old AM-FM radio I removed from my car acts like it does not have AFC, and I suspect that is the case.

No, I don't have a schematic for it. I'll bet you're right, and it doesn't have an AFC circuit. I just thought by the early 1970's, Ford would have included that.

No, I don't have a schematic for it. I'll bet you're right, and it doesn't have an AFC circuit. I just thought by the early 1970's, Ford would have included that.
I haven't had my Ford stereos hooked up in a while, but as I recall they're prone to considerable station drift, on the weaker stations anyway.

I haven't had my Ford stereos hooked up in a while, but as I recall they're prone to considerable station drift, on the weaker stations anyway.

That jibes with my experiences with the radio I replaced. If the station was not rather strong it seemed like I was driving with one hand on the tuning knob...

Some two-channel stereo-tape units are Motorola-made and offered at the same time as the Philco units. It never occurred to me to wonder why. Now I figure they were a higher-end option for some cars, and/or a cost-cutting measure for Lincoln/Cougar/Thunderbird buyers who didn't care about quad sound.

My Quad unit is Motorola sourced, the plain AM-FM was Philco.

Moto sold aftermarket Quad 8-track car stereos around then, Ford likely saw the ads, and decided buying from Moto was a great way to offer quad without the R&D cost.

My Quad unit is Motorola sourced, the plain AM-FM was Philco.

Moto sold aftermarket Quad 8-track car stereos around then, Ford likely saw the ads, and decided buying from Moto was a great way to offer quad without the R&D cost.

Plus Ford was an old customer of Motorola!
They took over the Ford car radio line from Detrola, when they went broke.

About 2 weeks ago the exhaust patch job me and my friend half completed at the beginning of the winter failed on highway 16. The pipe between the muffler and the rear bumper was rusted out and and sheared off at the rear muffler bracket which it's self is rusted out. For the time being that section of pipe has been removed since nothing was holding it anymore (I don't think I have the funds to have it done presently).

With the nice weather recently I decided to do some work on it last weekend. There were a number of bulbs out on it (under hood, under trunk lid, under dash, passenger side 'don't hit my door light', and one of the vanity mirror lights). Two were fuse style mount types, and I surprisingly had them on hand! When I was going through a box of TV tuners (I got from the estate of someone who also worked on cars) to find a suitable sub for the one in my first gen Zenith color set I happened to notice one of those bulbs. After pulling one out I was shocked when I went back to look for a second one later, and actually did find another one (that must be a magic box :) ). I also got the normal types changed too.
I decided to check the brake and power steering fluids while I was at it since they are on the short list of important fluids in it that I've yet to check since getting it. I'm glad I did, both were low. The back chamber of the brake reservoir was down a good ~2" below the lip (1/4" is the max safe drop) and the front while not as bad was also over 1/4" down....According to the manual excessive fluid drop is indicative of brake lining wear so I'll have to look into that when I can.

The Power steering level test revealed another problem...It instructs in the manual to warm the car, work the steering back and forth a few times, turn it off, and check the level, and after a few stop to stop rotations of the wheel I noticed that at the stops a small bit of smoke appears from the driver side of the firewall. It would appear that the power steering unit is leaking when the wheel is at the stops, but fine otherwise. Now that I know I'll keep some steering fluid in the trunk, and keep an eye on the fluid level until I can get to a doing proper repair.

I drove it down to a parts place along highway 16, got the fluid and bulbs, installed them, got insulted by a random looser, and as I was starting to appreciate the improvement in steering and braking on the way home I started hearing a scraping sound....Upon checking it I found one of the two fuel tank mount straps broke and was hanging. Ugh!...I swear to god(!) there must be a tribe of gremlins living on highway 16!...I'm at 2 trips and as many undercarriage related failures driving down that road in that car...

I think I'm going to replace that strap before I take it for any drive more than a couple of miles.

About 2 weeks ago the exhaust patch job me and my friend half completed at the beginning of the winter failed on highway 16. The pipe between the muffler and the rear bumper was rusted out and and sheared off at the rear muffler bracket which it's self is rusted out. For the time being that section of pipe has been removed since nothing was holding it anymore (I don't think I have the funds to have it done presently).

With the nice weather recently I decided to do some work on it last weekend. There were a number of bulbs out on it (under hood, under trunk lid, under dash, passenger side 'don't hit my door light', and one of the vanity mirror lights). Two were fuse style mount types, and I surprisingly had them on hand! When I was going through a box of TV tuners (I got from the estate of someone who also worked on cars) to find a suitable sub for the one in my first gen Zenith color set I happened to notice one of those bulbs. After pulling one out I was shocked when I went back to look for a second one later, and actually did find another one (that must be a magic box :) ). I also got the normal types changed too.
I decided to check the brake and power steering fluids while I was at it since they are on the short list of important fluids in it that I've yet to check since getting it. I'm glad I did, both were low. The back chamber of the brake reservoir was down a good ~2" below the lip (1/4" is the max safe drop) and the front while not as bad was also over 1/4" down....According to the manual excessive fluid drop is indicative of brake lining wear so I'll have to look into that when I can.

The Power steering level test revealed another problem...It instructs in the manual to warm the car, work the steering back and forth a few times, turn it off, and check the level, and after a few stop to stop rotations of the wheel I noticed that at the stops a small bit of smoke appears from the driver side of the firewall. It would appear that the power steering unit is leaking when the wheel is at the stops, but fine otherwise. Now that I know I'll keep some steering fluid in the trunk, and keep an eye on the fluid level until I can get to a doing proper repair.

I drove it down to a parts place along highway 16, got the fluid and bulbs, installed them, got insulted by a random looser, and as I was starting to appreciate the improvement in steering and braking on the way home I started hearing a scraping sound....Upon checking it I found one of the two fuel tank mount straps broke and was hanging. Ugh!...I swear to god(!) there must be a tribe of gremlins living on highway 16!...I'm at 2 trips and as many undercarriage related failures driving down that road in that car...

I think I'm going to replace that strap before I take it for any drive more than a couple of miles.

Man when it rains, it pours! Cool you made it through winter though! Does your car take "type F" transmission fluid? if so may want to get some too, I could never find it in gas stations when the old Ford leaked.

Ain't that the truth. Part of the reason it survived was my policy of driving it almost exclusively on days where the pavement was cleared and dry (she only got driven 2-6 times a month on average after the snow fell), and the 80$ weather proof car cover she has been living under. I'd guess the rust failure of the exhaust and strap were related to what driving I gave it.

I don't know if it uses type F transmission fluid (but I'll check soon). In the fall after I got it she was down 2 Quarts so on the advice of my friend who told me 'automatic transmission fluid is all the same' I put in what the local BP had....She was down a Quart a month or two back, and that time my friend talked me into refilling it with transmission stop leak....The leak ain't gone, but it seems a tad better now.

Stop leak is a bit like putting a brightener on a picture tube, it contains an agent that swells the rubber seals, but cant do them much good in the long run. if i recall right, type F has different friction characteristics than the regular dexron type. Might be good to flush it out and get the right stuff in it soon. Some cars , like newer Chrysler products, need a different fluid and can run into expensive issues if the right fluid isnt used.

In the fall after I got it she was down 2 Quarts so on the advice of my friend who told me.

This is absolutely and completely wrong... there's enough types of transmission fluid it could make your head spin (it did mine), and the annoyance of my 68 Ford was that you could only get it in quarts, when I really would have preferred to be able to buy gallons!

The big difference is that the clutch packs in old fords are designed for the friction characteristics of the older fluids, and vice versa... i.e. type F, Mercon, Mercon V, etc. It's a bit of a science and not a good idea to mix and match.

Is this cruiser going to make it to the WARCI meet on the 29th?

.

Here's some info for you on type "F"

https://mobiloil.com/en/automatic-transmission-fluid/type-f-atf

Basically it says check your dipstick, but I would say probably you need type F.

Oh and another detail - most fords use whatever their transmission fluid is for the power steering fluid, NOT a separate type of power steering fluid. If you topped it up with "power steering fluid" a la general motors, it could have provoked a leak. With my old F250 the original owner had done just this and the pump leaked... I basically just topped it up regularly, losing power steering was the least of my worries with that old beast.

I just got my 86 Toyota pickup back on the road after she sat for a month with a seized caliper. Usually I enjoy mechanic's work, but when it's cold and/or sloppy outside not so much.

@ Jim: Not if it keeps falling apart at the rate it's been. :tongue: I'll probably make that meet (even if I've got to hitch a ride with Chris) unless something odd comes up.

@ maxhifi: Thanks for the info and the link. I checked the owners manual before leaving home or reading your posts. Type F was not directly specified, and there was a long number which I did not have time to search for online. I don't remember a number on the Xmission dip stick so I'm starting to think it does use type F (I'll check it when I get home).
Quote from your link: "For the makeup and refill in power steering systems of the following Ford vehicles:
1980 and older Lincoln, Continental, and Mark".....I refilled the low power steering tank with generic power steering fluid. :dammit: I'm not sure what to do about that.

The new fuel tank strap(s) will be here tomorrow. Man was it a bear to get the old one off. The bolt was turning with the nut and I could not find access to the nut head. My solution was to borrow a wheel nut off my bike (same size piece), and tighten it on to the end of the bolt with a second wrench until it stuck enough to loosen the rusted nut. I don't think I should (or can) reuse the old nut and bolt, but there is no clear indication if it is included with the new straps or not. If it is not I wonder where I can get another nut like it if the straps don't come with some...
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN6711_zps4qmiisd7.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6711_zps4qmiisd7.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN6710_zpsxogamdeg.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6710_zpsxogamdeg.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN6708_zpsvqazpqcv.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6708_zpsvqazpqcv.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN6709_zpsbdbwe18l.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6709_zpsbdbwe18l.jpg.html)

I would have no problem to reuse that nut and bolt. Here's my procedure for making old junk like that useful.

1. Spray it with seafoam "deep creep" and let it soak in

2. Vigorously brush the threads clean with a stiff wire brush, and wipe clean with shop rag

3. Take apart the nut and bolt

4. Slather them in penetrating oil and then mount in a vice and wire brush them until clean

5. Clean up threads with tap and die if required.

You'll get it together, that nut and bolt are completely salvageable

As for the power steering fluid, doing a "flush" isn't a bad idea anyway... basically just return hose to drain... keep topping it up until the fluid comes out clean. You can find instructions for that in many place.. it's just another fun "job"

I would be willing to bet the power steering pump wants "type F" too

Unfortunately I don't really have any of those tools... I also worry that even if I do get them apart and back together that next time I need to undo that bolt it will be a solid mass of rust.

The dipstick says it uses ESP-M2C138-CJ transmission fluid, so it does not seem to be type F.

The dipstick says it uses ESP-M2C138-CJ transmission fluid, so it does not seem to be type F.

Dexron 3 should work fine.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/ORO0/D1/N0471.oap?ck=Search_N0471_-1_-1&pt=N0471&ppt=C0207

I would have no problem to reuse that nut and bolt. Here's my procedure for making old junk like that useful.

1. Spray it with seafoam "deep creep" and let it soak in


You were right. I found another wrench that could hold the bolt head, oiled the nut, removed it, cleaned the oiled threads with a rag, twisted the nut on and off a few times, repeat, and voila it is about as smooth as a new nut and bolt now! :tresbon:
I'll might still get a new nut since I rounded the head a bit working on it.

Thanks for the motivation/advice.

Congrats Electronic :)

I just saw this thread, will have to read all of it....them 460s are happiest when the exhaust manifold are glowing a dull red. They like to work.

btw- you should have a C6 in it, that will note take type A or F fluid. Mercon should work. (and if you have to rebuild it you can do so on your kitchen table)

Id like to see you fit an E4OD in there.....

You were right. I found another wrench that could hold the bolt head, oiled the nut, removed it, cleaned the oiled threads with a rag, twisted the nut on and off a few times, repeat, and voila it is about as smooth as a new nut and bolt now! :tresbon:
I'll might still get a new nut since I rounded the head a bit working on it.

Thanks for the motivation/advice.

Cool. It really did look OK to me, now in the future buy an aerosol can of "penetrating oil", and spray down whatever rusty bolts you want to loosen, and let it soak for a while. Some (exhaust manifold bolts for example) have been so bad, I have sprayed them once a day for a week before getting them off with reasonable force. I find that if the rust has started to swell, or if there's a lot of dirt on the bolt, the wire brush comes in handy.

(and if you have to rebuild it you can do so on your kitchen table).

I'm not sure Jerry & Tina (his parents) would like that. Although I was always very impressed the way they supported Tom's hobbies.

Great set of parents you have there, Tom!

.

I just saw this thread, will have to read all of it....them 460s are happiest when the exhaust manifold are glowing a dull red. They like to work.

btw- you should have a C6 in it, that will note take type A or F fluid. Mercon should work. (and if you have to rebuild it you can do so on your kitchen table)

Id like to see you fit an E4OD in there.....

Ain't got a table in there. The dining room table might be an option (the folks were refacing the kitchen cabinets and drilled right in to it by accident). Also got loads of workspace in the basement (see the My Digs thread I made a year ago).
Is it really that simple to rebuild one? I'm a bit of a neophyte when it comes to most car repair, and somehow I suspect I'd be more likely to add to the problems doing a DIY transmission rebuild....It would probably be interesting to learn though.

Those E4ODs are electronic controlled, so depending on the specifics of the control system it could be anywhere from easy to a nightmare...

Having an old car is the least parent-supported major endeavor I've yet undertaken. My Mom has often STRONGLY implied (if not outright stated) that she would rather I have new car than what I have/want to have....Like I or they (not like they would) could even afford that. Back before I got the linkn, and was searching for a car, Mom's constant unnatural looking at new/newish cars (most of which were models I find ugly) and going "that is pretty" or "you would look good in that" got nauseating real fast. There also have been a number of digging comments from her about my car that have sparked arguments.....At least Dad is fairly uninterested (better than annoying in my book) as long as nothing dangerous or funny happens.

I'm probably going to see if the wrecking yards have another Mark. I'm missing a small piece of chrome that goes on the A pillar and carries the back hood trim with the door trim, and one of the front cornering lights had the plastic cone the socket mounts to destroyed recently (I'm not sure when).

I discovered the horn also has crapped out the last drive I gave it a drive.
My new tank straps are at the auto parts store waiting for me I need to go there, get home and get going on it.

Having an old car is the least parent-supported major endeavor I've yet undertaken. My Mom has often STRONGLY implied (if not outright stated) that she would rather I have new car than what I have/want to have....Like I or they (not like they would) could even afford that. Back before I got the linkn, and was searching for a car, Mom's constant unnatural looking at new/newish cars (most of which were models I find ugly) and going "that is pretty" or "you would look good in that" got nauseating real fast. There also have been a number of digging comments from her about my car that have sparked arguments.....At least Dad is fairly uninterested (better than annoying in my book) as long as nothing dangerous or funny happens.

I feel the same way about newer cars. Buying and maintaining one I consider ugly would be a complete waste of money for me. Besides, newer cars are so full of airbags, sensors and cameras that they take almost all responsibility away from the driver.

Ok now that I have read the thread...

You did get a scroe here....the 460 is a low heat chocked off version, but that can be fixed. Evilly.

First off, on the 460 you just cannot bolt on stuff to the motor. they went thru SO MANY engineering iterations that a lot of head/intake/piston/carb combos do not play well with others when broken up.

Fortunately this is the future and there are entire websites dedicated to the car itself, ford itself, the engine itself etc...you will be able to find the info.

Now for body parts, look up 'the lincoln farm' in calvin PA. I know they guy (sold him some lincolns, got my tow dolly from him) he is a resource for body and interior parts.

Mileage - its gonna be good at ridding the earth of fossil fuels. I would suspect it does worse than my EFI big block suburban...and they both have 3 speeds.

If you find a proper E4OD (93 and newer) you can retrofit it - it bolts right in - and get a PCM for it (the Baumannator comes to mind) You are gonna pay some money to do this, its not faint of wallet, but it will get you the best mileage you are EVER gonna get. If you buy magnetic fuel lines or air cleaner inserts I will beat you myself.

As for the motor, you cannot just fit EFI to it, the stock carb heads and pistons and cam it will run like crap. You need to do a lot of work to go that route, then any EECIV ECM programmed for your axle ratio and tweec the fuel curve.

So, based on any budget, any engine mods are gonna be in the carb arena. Finding the form police package parts for the year - unobtanium.

since the exhaust is on the driveway surface ANYWAY, bend a couple downpipes and rig in some duals with 2 cats (gotta have them, dont care about your state law, federal law, if it had a cat then, it must now, but it can be a modern one)

If you can find a huge plenum huge snorkled 4v air cleaner assembly (might know of one locally) then install that. then you will get all the hp you are from that motor without mechanicals and maximize its efficiency. a 4bbl? not without other engine work - all it will do it dump more fuel down the pipe.

other things...the dura spark is pretty good ignition, you can get DS2 compatible coils, 7mm good wires and by all means re-hose the motor and PAY ATTENTION to the choppers and ported vacuum switches - all are available, and they actually do work pretty well.

I noticed talk about the radio - heck with esr meters, just recap with 25v units and be done with it - they were not rocket science. if you ever get east to carlisle (like ford nats, spring, fall etc) there are guys there besides myself who fix them on the spot, or at least a few days later. some even have remand units.

Well I worked on the strap. I started off by trying to remove some surface rust on the tank, that had formed under the old straps, using Naval Jelly, but soon realized that it would require more time and effort than it is worth. So I cleaned the stuff off, let it dry and hit it with some spray lacquer (things tend to re-rust after Naval Jelly if not coated). I then proceeded to install the new strap.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN6719_zps5f3r2lhg.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6719_zps5f3r2lhg.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN6720_zpsoqqpv2vp.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6720_zpsoqqpv2vp.jpg.html)
One thing that bothers me is that the new one seems too tight/short. Stopped tightening it for a while because some of the pops and noises the tank was making were a little disconcerting.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN6712_zpsodv4k7df.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6712_zpsodv4k7df.jpg.html)
I then came back a few minutes later and went at it again, and this time there were no odd noises, and I got it just about as far tightened down as I think it should be.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN6717_zpsxwpjedgc.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6717_zpsxwpjedgc.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN6716_zpslcfsj3vx.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6716_zpslcfsj3vx.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN6715_zps34hwpcfl.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6715_zps34hwpcfl.jpg.html)
Part of me wonders if this is how it should be or if they made the straps for a shorter tank and added those projections midway through to allow the main portion to be cut, and the strap to stretch some (the originals lack the projection).
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN6713_zpsyrtn4iqs.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6713_zpsyrtn4iqs.jpg.html)
Tomorrow morning-afternoon I'll probably try and change the other strap.
If anyone thinks I'm doing this wrong or am too paranoid feel free to chime in.

I feel the same way about newer cars. Buying and maintaining one I consider ugly would be a complete waste of money for me. Besides, newer cars are so full of airbags, sensors and cameras that they take almost all responsibility away from the driver.

That and the all the software and plastic they are made of are a big turn off for me. I was with my friend Chris about two years ago when a SUV cut off his late 90's Prelude to turn into a store from the oncoming lane...He was able to get it down to 5-15MPH I'd reckon before the corner of his front "bumper" and the rear corner of theirs met. The plastic bumper on his car was destroyed along with significant damage to the hood, fender, and some of the stuff behind the bumper....The airbags did not deploy, and EPCOT's 'Test Track' ride was a good deal rougher than the impact felt (I was seated on the corner that made contact). Insurance totaled it he bought it back and paid the difference to have it fixed... Our families '02 CRV met a similar fate (no real rear bumper in it to speak of).

My Lincoln on the other hand has thick steel bumpers bolted directly to the frame. So if some crazy schnook (I see enough of them out here to have reason to worry) cuts me off or rear ends me in anything short of a truck or a Chevy Suburban sized SUV, I'll cut through them like the plastic and tin foil sneakers on wheels they are. Heck even trucks and semis, while likely able to total it, ain't going to have an easy time reaching me unless they manage to hit the driver side....I find all that protective steel bulk around me quite comforting.

My Lincoln on the other hand has thick steel bumpers bolted directly to the frame. So if some crazy schnook (I see enough of them out here to have reason to worry) cuts me off or rear ends me in anything short of a truck or a Chevy Suburban sized SUV, I'll cut through them like the plastic and tin foil sneakers on wheels they are.
That's pretty much what I was thinking.
Heck even trucks and semis, while likely able to total it, ain't going to have an easy time reaching me unless they manage to hit the driver side....I find all that protective steel bulk around me quite comforting.

I wouldn't be too concerned about truck drivers. The worst drivers, around here anyway, tend to be bus drivers.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ5PcWziXT0

Devil's advocate, sure, but it does show the advantage in not having a metal bumper rigidly attached to the frame

Wow, your post has quite a bit of info to digest/try and follow.... It took a long time to compose this reply too.

First off, on the 460 you just cannot bolt on stuff to the motor. they went thru SO MANY engineering iterations that a lot of head/intake/piston/carb combos do not play well with others when broken up.

As for the motor, you cannot just fit EFI to it, the stock carb heads and pistons and cam it will run like crap. You need to do a lot of work to go that route, then any EECIV ECM programmed for your axle ratio and tweec the fuel curve.
I kind of suspected that it would be much more involved than it sounded, which is partially why I was not 'gung ho' to start the ball rolling on that.
So basically your saying conversion to fuel injection is darn near stripping the block and building it back up from scratch?...Assuming that it sounds like an easier way to go would be just to get a good 90's fuel injected 460, and swap engines if fuel injection gets pursued.


So, based on any budget, any engine mods are gonna be in the carb arena. Finding the form police package parts for the year - unobtanium.

So what you are saying is it would be better try and optimize the existent carb based system, than to pursue conversion to fuel injection?

I'm sure the factory original police engine options are unobtanium, but equivalents should not be hard to find. Depending on the package and year the parts were more or less an oil cooler, transmission cooler, high flow fuel pump, better heads, and a different cam....All but the last two should be easy to find modern equivalents for. I like the idea of adding the cooling accessories from a longevity standpoint since it seems every production year the Mark V got a bigger radiator (even the 79's that dropped the 460 from engine the options).


Fortunately this is the future and there are entire websites dedicated to the car itself, ford itself, the engine itself etc...you will be able to find the info.

Yeah, I should start visiting those sites and forums when I can find time.

Now for body parts, look up 'the lincoln farm' in calvin PA. I know they guy (sold him some lincolns, got my tow dolly from him) he is a resource for body and interior parts.
Thanks for telling me about them. If I can't find what I'm looking for cheap locally I'll contact them.


Mileage - its gonna be good at ridding the earth of fossil fuels. I would suspect it does worse than my EFI big block suburban...and they both have 3 speeds.

If you find a proper E4OD (93 and newer) you can retrofit it - it bolts right in - and get a PCM for it (the Baumannator comes to mind) You are gonna pay some money to do this, its not faint of wallet, but it will get you the best mileage you are EVER gonna get. If you buy magnetic fuel lines or air cleaner inserts I will beat you myself.
I'm getting roughly 6MPG. It probably needs to have the carb and ignition tuned, since it idles rough especially in the cold.

Once I have more money to work with I may try the E4OD and Baumanator combo in lieu of rebuilding the original transmission.

Magnetic fuel lines (unless you have a lot of rust loose particles inside your tank) and the like strike me as the automotive equivalent of the Oxygen-free-copper audiophool cables.

You did get a scroe here....the 460 is a low heat chocked off version, but that can be fixed. Evilly.
Could you please expand on how to go about fixing that?

If you can find a huge plenum huge snorkled 4v air cleaner assembly (might know of one locally) then install that. then you will get all the hp you are from that motor without mechanicals and maximize its efficiency. a 4bbl? not without other engine work - all it will do it dump more fuel down the pipe.
The first sentence is close to greek to me. Are you saying just to get a big air intake/filter housing?...If so I can hardly imagine one bigger than what it has (the round part is bigger around than the folks' jumbo Thanksgiving turkey cook pan).

other things...the dura spark is pretty good ignition, you can get DS2 compatible coils, 7mm good wires and by all means re-hose the motor and PAY ATTENTION to the choppers and ported vacuum switches - all are available, and they actually do work pretty well. IIRC mine uses points....Your recommending switching to Dura Spark II? What are you referring to by choppers?

since the exhaust is on the driveway surface ANYWAY, bend a couple downpipes and rig in some duals with 2 cats (gotta have them, dont care about your state law, federal law, if it had a cat then, it must now, but it can be a modern one)
I'm not sure what you mean by "on the driveway". The current state of the exhaust system can be seen below.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6723_zpsahbbd5t7.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6723_zpsahbbd5t7.jpg.html)
So what you are saying is to remove the T pipe off the back of the cats, and replace it with two short ones aimed out the sides and no muffler? Is there a good way to bend pipes without tools meant to do that?
Personally I rather keep the muffler and loose the cats...I like quiet more than I like the exhaust to smell good and please the Washington hippies that have spent too much time intentionally inhaling it directly. :screwy: :smoke:

My friends from college routinely remove cats from cars older than inspection age, and were telling me it is one of the cheapest best ways to boost fuel economy. Out here if it ain't got a modern computer port, or based too close to Milwaukee there is no emissions inspection.
I don't care about unenforced federal laws (the EPA and their commie policies can go take a dump in the woods for all I care).
I think the founding fathers and those of the Boston Tea Party would have agreed that bad laws, and regulations passed with sucky or even NO public representation were made to be flagrantly disobeyed...

I noticed talk about the radio - heck with esr meters, just recap with 25v units and be done with it - they were not rocket science. if you ever get east to carlisle (like ford nats, spring, fall etc) there are guys there besides myself who fix them on the spot, or at least a few days later. some even have remand units.
That radio was fixed long ago and is rock solid now. I don't have an ESR meter capable of solid state value lytics* so recapping from used parts I have on hand is a gamble, and I have never really taken to online parts orders.
*My 50's Heathkit C-3 has a ESR-ish test (power factor), but with 50V min for all test voltages(IIRC) it would blow most low voltage lytics in SS gear...

I wouldn't be too concerned about truck drivers. The worst drivers, around here anyway, tend to be bus drivers.

I've been in cars which were cut off by trucks (trailer less semis, and otherwise) before....Not fun. Not common, but not fun.

@maxhifi: I'd say that is partially invalid since a plethora of design changes for crash safety and even the rigidity of bumpers were implemented between 1959 and 1978.

Magnetic fuel lines (unless you have a lot of rust loose particles inside your tank) and the like strike me as the automotive equivalent of the Oxygen-free-copper audiophool cables.
I didn't know such an insane marketing gimmick existed, even among *that* crowd. Quaddriver, you ought to be beating on anyone who falls for that.

I've been in cars which were cut off by trucks (trailer less semis, and otherwise) before....Not fun. Not common, but not fun.

@maxhifi: I'd say that is partially invalid since a plethora of design changes for crash safety and even the rigidity of bumpers were implemented between 1959 and 1978.

And how about all the changes implemented between 1978 and 2015? And the fact that any 37 year old machine isn't going to be operating as new.. and some of the structure will be eroded by time and corrosion. The lack of crumple zones means that at high speed impacts there's nothing to absorb the force of the impact except for the inertia of the vehicle.. which may be substantial, but this kind of brute force management of collision impact isn't what drives any sort of modern design. And old cars don't perform well in roll over collisions either, new ones are much better at landing on their roof and allowing the driver to walk away.

I like old cars as much as you do, but safety is certainly not a reason to own one. In fact when I am driving an old car I like to take a bunch of emergency supplies with me to prepare for the inevitable extended and unplanned road side troubleshooting session.

Oh - I just read the other post.. if you're getting 6 mpg, what you need is a tune up.

I suggest at a minimum: Get yourself some new points, a condenser, new rotor, new spark plugs, and possibly a carb rebuild kit. Get the following test gear: timing light and dwell meter.

First change and gap all the plugs, then change the points, condenser, and rotor, and set the base timing and dwell with vacuum advance disconnected. Then verify that vacuum advance works. I have struggled with rebuilding carbs and found that buying a rebuilt one is easier... you may not find the same thing, just my experience.

You will find that doing a tune up on the old beast is much easier than a convergence procedure for a colour TV, and much more rewarding financially.

something nagged at me all day and I have been out of pocket all day, so when I got home I double checked. And this is gonna seem weird. And stranger as I go....

You said the car was built in october 77, which can make it a 78, but not necessarily. Ford used/uses a 'just in time' method of manufacturing, such that the VIN is created before the car and with the order sheet, causes the pieces to show up. If the car was ordered before oct 7-8 1977, it could be a 77.

How to tell?

Unlike everyone else who used 13 digit vins then, ford used 11. For your car, is the first digit a 7, 8 or 9? That gives the year as in 1977, 1978, 1979...

You expect it to be an 8

2nd digit is the plant.

digits 3 and 4 are the body style, Id expect 81, 82 or 89.

the 5th (and this is where it gets weird) is the engine

Is is 'A' or 'S'. 'A' being 460, 'S' being the 400.

Yes you read that right.

Why did I look this up? it dawned on me that once the 460 came out, it only had 2bbl versions in some real early 70's large (but not lincoln) ford and mercury cars, and cutaway vans used for campers.

Inside your door should be a plate that has things like body code, paint code, tranny code (either way its a C6) and axle code ('O' or '5' for 1977, O, J, 1 or 2 for 78)

at 6mpg, you are getting worse than the 8mpg in my camper using an EFI 460 which is the equivalent of a 1 car, 6 ton garage moving at 65mph...

So something is wrong. So before we can definitively tell you how to fix it, we have to know what you have, and there is no way that either engine had points. Both are long established as dura spark, so if you DO have points, and DO have a 460 with a 2bbl, someone did a transplant...

It could be you have a 400, with the 2.50 axle. (worst case scenario for mods)

So please research and get back...

Edited to add: another way to tell a 335 series 400 from a 385 series 460 is the valve cover bolts, 7= 385, 8 = 335. It would be an easy mistake for some to make, the ridiculous tall deck of the 351M/400 makes it nearly as wide as the 460, BUT, the 400 uses the same 4.38 bore spacing as the windsor so the heads are not as 'long' when looking side by side with the 460, and the block has a funny timing cover extention cast in to handle cooling, the 351M/400 intake manifold is dry - no water in it, whereas the 460 is wet and has a thermo housing pointing up at the front.

at 6mpg, you are getting worse than the 8mpg in my camper using an EFI 460 which is the equivalent of a 1 car, 6 ton garage moving at 65mph...
Haha, I like that analogy. :D Also, it reminds me of the mobile home I saw being hauled along the highway recently. Widest mirror spacing I ever saw on a truck I thought.

Tank straps are done.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN6724_zpsuia24sqx.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6724_zpsuia24sqx.jpg.html)

It is a 460 with a 2.50 axle. Valve cover nuts are neither 7 or 8, but +...However the engine sticker says it's a 7.5L (460CID) engine in there. You are right about there being no points. The wiring from the coil goes back to the firewall.
Here are some pictures to back that up.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_LID_zpsquoa2a0o.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/LID_zpsquoa2a0o.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_build_zpsjv253yws.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/build_zpsjv253yws.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_build2_zpstympt1kv.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/build2_zpstympt1kv.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_build3_zpsajg9l0zk.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/build3_zpsajg9l0zk.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_build4_zpsrbzyvbf2.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/build4_zpsrbzyvbf2.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN6732_zpseoonq7zu.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6732_zpseoonq7zu.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN6728_zpsfgt6fudp.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6728_zpsfgt6fudp.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN6736_zpsj5julmcx.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6736_zpsj5julmcx.jpg.html)

And finally a couple of pictures of the engine because I don't think I've posted engine pictures yet.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6734_zps3ae2zcy7.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6734_zps3ae2zcy7.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN6733_zpsjmnzywde.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN6733_zpsjmnzywde.jpg.html)

My friend Chris says he has the equipment to tune it, and knows how so as soon we can get to it a tune up will be performed.

Ok based on the A code motor:

A 460 CID 4V V-8 (52,466 Built; 72.3%)
Bore & stroke: 4.36 x 3.85 in.
Comp. ratio: 8.0:1
Horsepower: 210 at 4200 RPM
Torque: 357 lb.-ft. at 2200 RPM
Carburetor: Motorcraft 4350 <---which means....

underneath that air cleaner lid is a 4bbl carb. now we are getting somewhere, remove, rebuild, pay attention to the choke system. THAT is why it sputters when cold.

furthermore, you mentioned PS fluid leak, from the pics, you have the saginaw (GM) pump, very cheap to obtain.

As you work on the motor over the years, the factory valve cover and cleaner paint is 'old ford blue'.

See to the left of the motor (as you face car) the air cleaner 'arm' with the bellows hose and plastic? that is the cold air snorkle. Its not as restrictive as most, but it does impede air flow. why? noise. moving air = noise, lincoln owners dont wanna hear noise. If you can find a dual snorkle cleaner, more air inside. See the silver hose under the snorkle? heat riser. Make sure when cold the valve on top does in fact open - aids in cold start, it forces air past the manifolds and warms up sooner.

Ok based on the A code motor:

A 460 CID 4V V-8 (52,466 Built; 72.3%)
Bore & stroke: 4.36 x 3.85 in.
Comp. ratio: 8.0:1
Horsepower: 210 at 4200 RPM
Torque: 357 lb.-ft. at 2200 RPM
Carburetor: Motorcraft 4350 <---which means....

underneath that air cleaner lid is a 4bbl carb. now we are getting somewhere, remove, rebuild, pay attention to the choke system. THAT is why it sputters when cold.

furthermore, you mentioned PS fluid leak, from the pics, you have the saginaw (GM) pump, very cheap to obtain.

As you work on the motor over the years, the factory valve cover and cleaner paint is 'old ford blue'.

See to the left of the motor (as you face car) the air cleaner 'arm' with the bellows hose and plastic? that is the cold air snorkle. Its not as restrictive as most, but it does impede air flow. why? noise. moving air = noise, lincoln owners dont wanna hear noise. If you can find a dual snorkle cleaner, more air inside. See the silver hose under the snorkle? heat riser. Make sure when cold the valve on top does in fact open - aids in cold start, it forces air past the manifolds and warms up sooner.

Thanks for the info. Me and a friend leaned up the fuel mixture last Friday, checked the idle speed (fast idle is good, slow idle where it tends to run rough is at the upper end of the tolerance range), and checked the timing (it looks right, but it is hard to tell for certain since only the TDC mark is still readily readable).

I don't think I have time to do a full rebuild with college in session, and even if I can find the time I want to make sure I can afford and source a rebuilt carb before I try, so that if I screw it up I have a fallback option ready.

I'll try to get to checking that intake/exhaust valve when I can.


I fixed the horns Saturday evening...Some times the horns not working is as simple as the horns not working...I tried jumpering their positive leads to battery + and nothing happened, so I unplugged them and connected a 12V lamp to their supply leads, and watched as the horn button lit the lamp when pressed (pfew, that would have been an annoying open to try and trace). I unbolted the horns, drilled out the rivets holding them together, and found that the switch contacts were dirty. The horn is basically an audio frequency relay oscillator with the solenoid arm connected to a metal acoustic diaphragm driving am acoustic horn. After cleaning the contacts I had to tweak their adjustment as I reassembled them to make it so that they would continue to oscillate after the diaphragm was properly clamped between the two halfs of the assembly. I'll have to recheck my work this evening to see if it is still good. In repairing them I realized that the horns have different tones from each other.

The coolant is a bit low so I'm going to try and get some this evening to top it off.

Thanks for the info. Me and a friend leaned up the fuel mixture last Friday, checked the idle speed (fast idle is good, slow idle where it tends to run rough is at the upper end of the tolerance range), and checked the timing (it looks right, but it is hard to tell for certain since only the TDC mark is still readily readable).

I don't think I have time to do a full rebuild with college in session, and even if I can find the time I want to make sure I can afford and source a rebuilt carb before I try, so that if I screw it up I have a fallback option ready.

I'll try to get to checking that intake/exhaust valve when I can.


The coolant is a bit low so I'm going to try and get some this evening to top it off.

One thing you may want to consider, is a self serve wrecking yard. You could get a used carb for pennies on the dollar, and take it apart/use it as a backup/rebuild it. Make sure to change the fuel filter when you do any work on the carb, just to be sure.

It shouldn't really be too hard to take it apart and do a rebuild, once you have a complete rebuild kit, and have read the carb's manual inside out and backwards. I wouldn't attempt it just based on the sheet which comes in the rebuilt kit's box, better to find complete rebuild instructions as a PDF from Ford somewhere and follow them exactly. Then when you install the new carb pay a lot of attention to all the hoses, and gaskets, etc. An air leak can cause all sorts of issues which are hard to troubleshoot, so any doubtful vacuum lines should be promptly replaced.

I am really starting to want an old domestic car thanks to this thread! Detroit iron is special!

Thanks for the info. Me and a friend leaned up the fuel mixture last Friday, checked the idle speed (fast idle is good, slow idle where it tends to run rough is at the upper end of the tolerance range), and checked the timing (it looks right, but it is hard to tell for certain since only the TDC mark is still readily readable).

I don't think I have time to do a full rebuild with college in session, and even if I can find the time I want to make sure I can afford and source a rebuilt carb before I try, so that if I screw it up I have a fallback option ready.

I'll try to get to checking that intake/exhaust valve when I can.

.

Its a lost art....

carb work that is. Just think, at no point in your life was a carb offered on a car for sale...

Ok what you guys did, at BEST, was set the idle mixture. Lean, is actually not good, they can pollute more when too lean (lean miss)

To start off work like this you need a tool most people forget exist: vacuum gauge. At idle, what does she pull? higher number is better. before you can set any idles or mixes we gotta know if its sucking hard enuf...

the reason i said to rebuild the carb is that without knowing its pedigree, its done. its full of goo, it leaks, it smells, its corroded. The choke linkage on a 4bbl is a rather complex affair - not only does it apply the primary choke when cold and pull it off slowly, and idle step, it also has to lock out the secondaries in all but WOT operations.

too many times, the idle steps come off too fast, while the temps are too low. the emission strategies were always to get it off fast idle, rich mix as soon as possible, but this was never taken that seriously or done effectively until the early 80s. In the rebuild kit, will be the steps you need to initially set up the carb to have a good baseline.

Sounds like Quad-Man knows a bit about these cars..... And carbs....
Also, if this car has the EGR under the carb like my '73 did, you should be sure
this little trinket is in good shape, not corroded, and that the EGR is actually
working..... If'n yer really into doing exhaust work, cut out the "Y" and go to
a muffler shop, get a "H" made, include the Cats - you have to, they make hi-flo
competition cats you may choose to invest in.... Then get a dual exhaust made, with
separate mufflers.....

Quad is also right as you most likely only adjusted idle mixture... Run mixture is
set by removable gas jets at the bottom of the fuel bowel, and the vacuum bypass
valve for when you floor-it!..... He is also right about the vacuum gauge - think of
it as a VOM for carburetor equipped cars..... Be sure the vacuum advance is working too....


Anyway your biggest roadblock to better gas mileage that it weighs 6600 lbs with you
and some crap in the trunk in it..... And the spare..... And oh-yah the de-tuned 460
and 3 speed auto..... and the 2.5 rear end..... Didn't think they made anything with
numbers like that in a 6600 lb 4 seater back then....

You win the car crash battle at low speed entanglements with in-a-hurry parking lot
idiots and the texter behind you while creeping along at 20 mph in traffic, and by the way
your bumper should be on mini shocks, not really attached to the frame....
Kind of a friction slide....

But at 50 mph and above most likely newer cars will be safer..... but then again....
all that stuff has to be working, most recalls now-a-days are for the way too
complicated SRS systems, ABS, any of which can go off in flight and cause a good wreck.

You may just come out ahead if you just run it as is and save yer money for your
next slightly smaller, safer, newer, more efficient car.....

Went back a little in this thread, saw your tailpipe and tank strap thing,
It's funny because with my old cars I always go through them now before
winter comes as I HATE doing car stuff in the cold.... Now I got spares,
and if a car needs something It sits till spring.... Done lots of middle
of the winter radiator changes, muffler re-wraps, yuk.... All part of
being young and having your first car.... Enjoy it...

When I first looked for a car, my Dad took me to dealerships, and we looked
at a '74 Dasher wagon I thought was cool.... Several '76-78 Mustangs, Yah
I liked those... One '73 Mach 1 that burned oil, NO.... Sorry on that one....
I almost got a '71 Datsun 510 - later on I found out what a cool car it was...
I don't think Mom cared..... Most of what I looked at was '65 - 73 mustangs
that needed several years of rust restoration before they could be driven....
Then One day riding my bike back from Closter NJ I came on this Red '73
Grande' Mustang that had been stolen off a used car lot in NJ driven around
and crashed into the Hackensack river.... $800. for a car that blue-booked
for around $2200. back then I was told.... Never really looked....
Half a summer, A junk yard you could walk around in, and lots of my kid-earned
money and I got it running.... Lots of fun... Lots of work.... Have fun !
Parents were really supportive, I did lots of rust work that didn't save it,
lots of mechanical stuff, and painted it too, all in the yard....
Once I spent all afternoon removing a lower ball joint/arm from the
junk yard - later found out it was a cheap easily obtainable part.....

Remember you'll never get your money back on all the things you're thinking
about doing to this thing..... Been there, done that....

.

My problem right now is time and money...I've got only about 150$ (because my folks are making me keep enough to pay insurance, whenever that bill comes) for gas repairs radio stuff, etc. until my tax refund comes...Then, I might be able to afford to buy ANOTHER one of theses tanks. Until I've got the funds I've got to pick my battles.
I decided to skip the WARCI radio meet because I had too much on my plate, and I don't want to spend money needlessly. I've got 4 lab reports to do, and I just finished a 24hour study marathon for the two midterms I took today (one of them was a last minute surprise :gigglemad ).

BTW it comfortably seats 6 (with the front center arm rests up) though the back three will not be comfortable to those trying haul their buts out at the end (getting out of the back seat is not as easy as it ought to be).

I do have a vacuum/pressure gauge (penske brand IIRC) and when we tweaked the idle we tried to find a vacuum line to do it right, but gave up. My friend only tweaked the idle screws a TINY bit. He said something to the effect of 'I've tuned enough lawnmowers by ear, that I'm sure I improved things'....One thing that has annoyed the crap out of both of us is the damn 1978 Ford manuals I got for my car, the PDFs are not searchable (or well indexed) somehow despite all the text being copyable, the manuals cover EVERY passenger vehicle Ford Motor co made that year and they randomly jumbled all the different stuff together so there is a TON of crap to wade through if you want something specific, and MUCH of the info is scant, and poorly written.....After a bunch of looking for carb adjustments (the section on the carb was virtually no help), timing settings etc, we gave up looking and got better results from google(!)....It is almost like you took a dozen sam's manuals cut down and fragmented the info, sliced them to ribbons, then randomly reassembled it into a combined manual.
I'm considering looking for a Chilton's manual for this thing.

I need to get on it, but I need time (and money for the major stuff)....I'm technically starting my "spring break" a day early this week since I don't have class on Thursdays, but then again they 'break' this year only consists of them giving us THIS Friday off.....I'd like to find out who the genius was that planned that, and find out what (s)he looks like with a tire track running down their back....The class schedule is torturous enough, they should ADD breaks (so we can catch up) not shrink them down to nothing....And to think some people wonder why there are virtually no social events or fraternizing between the guys and gals on campus.

The factory manuals are actually very good, Chiltons (sp) SUCKS ROCKS
you can find factory stuff on ebay, they were made by Helm, but they do not
aid in redesigning anything, just factory spec....

Don't expect much more than 6mpg at factory spec. My 351C with FMX 3 speed auto,
A/C PS PB got 9mpg, and it uncomfortably sat 6 little asses, (4 full size lards)
and it was hard to get out of too..... You need a '79 and up LTD if you want
BIG with a little mpg.... The 302's with VV's got 26mpg, and the EFI's later did
about the same.....

.

wellll.....there are lots of places to hook the gauges to, and you do, but at different times...

high port, low port

you want, to start off, a port BELOW the throttle plates, which will read nice and high at idle. It will give you the most insight to vacuum diagnosable (I made that word up) items.

typically, for emissions and lower Nox, the vacuum advance ran on high port, or something above the throttle plates...lower advance at idle, increasing with rpm and hence when the vacuum moves UP the bores. There will be somewhere a thermal vacuum switch for when the coolant at the manifold (right after the heads) gets too hot, it switches over to a lower port which has a higher vacuum closed throttle which advances the timing and cools the cylinder heads and lowers nox - crude, but as effective as it needed to be.

Can you read the VECI label (vehicle emission control info label) either on the air cleaner, hood, or radiator valence. The most bang for the buck (lowest cost, least work, best results) you are going to get will be from replacing what HAS to be cracked leaking hoses, and verifying all the components work. Make sure any vacuum reservoirs are not holed, the choppers (they delay a vacuum signal change) all work.

and another thing you can do it warm the car up good and warm and make sure the choke has pulled off fully - butterfly utterly open, any lockout lever moved away.

socializing in college? they do that?

btw - the factory manuals will be at spring carlisle and all ford nats at carlisle - 2 vendors that I know of.

there is at least one guy online who sells them as cd rom scans

edited to add:

http://www.faxonautoliterature.com/1978-Ford-Lincoln-and-Mercury-CD-ROM-Repair-Shop-Manual-for-all-cars-78-P23638.aspx

btw - the factory manuals will be at spring carlisle and all ford nats at carlisle - 2 vendors that I know of.

there is at least one guy online who sells them as cd rom scans

edited to add:

http://www.faxonautoliterature.com/1978-Ford-Lincoln-and-Mercury-CD-ROM-Repair-Shop-Manual-for-all-cars-78-P23638.aspx

That CD is basically what I have/was griping about...

It's cool that you have a carburetor car, and that you will have the exposure
to that kind of technology, also that you are making a lot of the repairs
yourself, there are a lot of people growing up today that have no idea
what goes on when you turn the key and step on the gas.....

This is the kind of shop manual you need.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1978-Ford-Lincoln-Mercury-Shop-Service-Repair-Manual-Engine-Drivetrain-Wiring-OE-/360469974482?hash=item53edaf4dd2&vxp=mtr

From the ad:

Features

* Factory Authorized Reproduction
* All Models
* approx 2000 pages
* Body, Chassis, Engine, Drivetrain & Electrical


This includes

* Most Complete Shop Manual Available
* Physical Paper Manual!
* Numerous Illustrations and Diagrams
* Technical Diagnostic Procedures
* Disassembly and Installation Procedures
* Written by the Manufacturer
* Used by the Mechanics at the Dealership

-----------

.

It's cool that you have a carburetor car, and that you will have the exposure
to that kind of technology, also that you are making a lot of the repairs
yourself, there are a lot of people growing up today that have no idea
what goes on when you turn the key and step on the gas.....

This is the kind of shop manual you need.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1978-Ford-Lincoln-Mercury-Shop-Service-Repair-Manual-Engine-Drivetrain-Wiring-OE-/360469974482?hash=item53edaf4dd2&vxp=mtr

This includes
* Physical Paper Manual!

As much as the paper version of my CD would be nice to have, at that price I'd be better off every day at school printing my CD at under the 20 sheets a day for free print allowanc.....Wait that is a good idea!

Well the weather has been nice so I fixed the passenger power lock issue this weekend. On Friday me and a friend re-diagnosed the issue both switches only gave a response in one direction, and that response was a motor squeaking sound only from the passenger door. We got the passenger door card off and got a look at the motor in that door. It worked, but the rubber grommets that held it in it's mounts were turning to jelly, and predictably it had come loose from it's mountings. We figured out that the switch that was supposed to reverse voltage to it was not letting that happen, and thinking it was the passenger switch wasted a lot of time trying fix it. Then we ran out of time and buttoned it all back up.

The next day I messed around with the passenger switch more until I realized that it could not be the problem, and went after the driver side switch, I borrowed a similar switch from the window system and installing it yielded motor response from both switches in both directions (as it should). Being broke rather than spend 20$ for the correct replacement switch my solution was to drill a hole in the sealed plastic case and shoot contact cleaner in...It will now control the locks correctly, but if it is not re-centered quite right (the spring return is not as good after drilling the hole) the good passenger switch only will work one way. I wish the manual had an actual schematic of the circuit so that I could have figured it out back on Friday.

Today I fixed the passenger motor. Since it was out of it's mounts it would just try to turn futilely. The bad mount grommets were an odd shape that the hardware store did not stock so I got creative. My solution was to get some rubber stoppers (little rubber corks) the right size that they would be firmly wedged in the mount by the motor, and drill holes in them so the pegs of the motor would fit in the center....With how much effort went into squeezing it all together I think it is safe to say that it should hold together until those rubber stoppers start to rot. After that I lubed the motor (boy did that improve things) and cycled it about a dozen times, and put it all back together.

The driver side lock motor is still silent and unresponsive, but that is a job for another day. The way I see it the driver side power lock is the least important. I can let folks I travel with in and out easier now, and any future girl friend won't have to watch me bumble around with a key (that might need to be in the ignition at the time) as much.

I figure one of three things is wrong with the driver side lock motor: open motor, open supply/control wiring, or the motor is stuck REALLY firmly. Time will tell.

Door lock motors, are actually real motors and they get really crappy inside and
need to be carefully dis-assembled and cleaned, greased, and as long as the inside
is not too rusted, and the magnets go back together it can be used again.....

The window motor circuit is much less complicated than a tv. You can most likely
work it out on paper.... It's just a series of switches..... Switch contacts get pitted
by users pushing the window up and when it hits the top, they continue to hold
the button and it over heats and pits the contacts as well.... Ford's switches aren't
bad, you should be able to clean them up and get them working....

Anyway, good to hear you are making progress..... I remember working on my
mustang, first project get all the stuff to work the way is should.... I liked the
clock project the best.... Little set of breaker points to a coil that would wind
the main spring 1/2 turn every 5 minutes of so... Neat little thing...

.

If the other motor is bad rebuilding it is plan A. I'm the type of person that likes to dive to the deepest level of failure that can potentially be fixed and start there.

Yeah, I was close to trying tracing it out before I found the fault...It would have been annoying though since most of the lock wires are pink with a faint gray stripe (either solid or in various dash/dot patterns), wrapped in harnesses that obscure what goes where, and that generally leave a lot of room for me to mix them up.

The power window circuit is usually the same way, everything controlled through the drivers door. So since the drivers door is the one that gets used the most, it's common for the wires in the door jamb to break. Just my 2 cents from my mechanic years.

I spent another hour on it today.

I decided to turn it around in the drive way (so if i dropped any screws they would not vanish in the grass), but was faced with it not wanting to start. I guess I ran the battery down last time I worked on it....:thumbsdn:
A good 5-10 minutes on my (likely period correct) TripLite charger/inverter restored enough charge to turn it over, and it was back to business.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN7191_zpstokk27jz.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN7191_zpstokk27jz.jpg.html)

In case anyone is curious what the procedure for getting the door card off is like here is a link to a video someone else made that is a pretty good representation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohVD8FgjhzE
The biggest learning curve was that the arm rest cushions on mine are not held in with velcro, but rather slide lock in place, and have to be slid back to remove them.

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN7199_zpsrpogz83e.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN7199_zpsrpogz83e.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN7196_zpswudrvlrp.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN7196_zpswudrvlrp.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN7195_zps5qzodz5p.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN7195_zps5qzodz5p.jpg.html)


I was getting decent voltage at the motor plug so I coaxed the motor out (it wanted to stay in REALLY badly).
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN7197_zpsy7aonoqz.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN7197_zpsy7aonoqz.jpg.html)

I dragged the door arm rest and motor in to work on them. The arm rest had some bad cracks on a thin section of it that I've super glued up....Setting that piece of plastic on my bed made me realize just how long the doors are on my car and at the same time how small my bed is.:eek:

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN7200_zpshcw0ghcg.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN7200_zpshcw0ghcg.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN7201_zpsydkxrfb2.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN7201_zpsydkxrfb2.jpg.html)

I think the problem with the motor is evident in this photo....
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN7202_zps5p5tmgul.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN7202_zps5p5tmgul.jpg.html)

I think I'll try soldering to the terminal rivet in the bottom of the motor and see what that gets me. I don't see an easy way into it presently.

Well who knows you might get off easy and not have to take apart the entire unit....
Lots of current runs through that little thingie, so be sure you use a large wire
when soldering it onto that lug/rivet.... Try and use multi-strand wire so you
have a bit of flexibility and you might as well do both sides, and remote
tie it to the plug wires, keeping the plug in the circuit in case you need it
later on.... If it works just seal off the plus holes so they don't corrode....

On old car doors like that, it is best to do all the work you can on one removal...
The crappy card board they made them with will get soft with each removal
and re installation... So fix it right, replace the speaker, clean everything,
spray some rust repair paint in the bottom, vacuum out the bottom of the
door where the drain holes are..... And be sure you carefully repair that
plastic water barrier that protects the cardboard.....

And if the window isn't running up and down right, or is a little too loose,
this is a good time to snug up the glass guides, and lube the runners....
Be careful what you lube everything with, or even if you should...
Our Honda Accord I have to use Armorall for lube it works best, as
the parts are rubber.... Some Ford guides are some cloth based stuff
and for the most part don't need lube.... If it seems to vibrate, or
semi-bind as it moves, my favorite dry lube is Chapstick.... Great for
key locks too by the way... House of car....

Anyway, check out everything possible while yer in there.....

Good luck and have fun !

Hey my finders had all those "Ford Dings" on them every time I had to
work on my car as well..... I think they planned it, 7" away from each
nut was a sharp piece of metal, or some other screw from the other side
positioned just so that when yer wrench slipped, there was some
sharp thing to say "Thanks for buying a ford, oh by the way, you need
a band-aid."

.

I've realized the motor is ceased, and there is no continuity to be found on those terminals....So it looks like I'm going to have to open it up. I sawed off the lower metal crimp (too thick a gauge to pry open), but it is still not coming open...Guess I'll saw a pinch farther up, and see what happens.
I probably should get some proper penetrating oil to try and unstick it (WD-40 don't cut it).

Yeah, I always end up with cuts on my hands when I get too focused on what I'm doing be it working on a car or a TV.
Yeah that car is it's own living room complete with couches....If I go to any far multi day swap meets in it I'll likely skip the motel.

Better off putting half in a vise, and twisting the other half.....
If you cut away a portion of the case, and the spacing is wrong
when you put it back, then you need another one.....
As long as it's not keyed as to position, vise it and twist it..

.

If you mean the motor shaft and body I've tried that, and the shaft is REALLY stuck.

If you mean to open the case I don't think that will work.....The motor case is one solid piece of metal from the shaft exit down to the plastic outlet at the bottom. It crimps on to the plastic electric connector like an old can type electrolytic only the metal is too thick to bend (So I cut the crimp to try and open it).

I'm starting to think this thing was not made to be rebuilt, and given how ceased it is and the amount of corrosion on top and in the terminals at the bottom logically speaking it is probably full of corrosion and may be beyond repair even IF I can get in without ruining it.

Well, it would probably be smartest to just replace it..... Ours was $117. each to
replace, so I decided to repair.... Junk Yard items I'm sure are less.... I know I did
get mine apart, it was for a '79 Mercury Colony Park Wagon, I opened it at the
bottom where the connections are, like yours.... It slid out the electrical end
of the motor, brushes, left in the magnets, along with the center came the
worm gear that moves the lever.... I think the motor turned maybe 20 revolutions
max to move the lever up and down.... Good force, it would make a great
nut cracker..... For the luxury minded squirrel, A Must have ! !

I had the time to do it, and it worked well after, but it may not be practical, you may
just be able to get a newer one that works....

There are door lock actuators on ebay from $30. on up, all depends on your
appetite for how you wanna fix it.... For our car, Dad was not interested in fixing
our locks for $100. So I took it off, rebuilt it and eventually put it back.... You can
open, close, and lock unlock the door without these things, so take it out and work
on it till you fix it....

You know what it is..... It's just neat to take it apart learn how it works and fix it
yerself.... It's just fun....

Oops- yah you gotta hold it good, put the body in a vise, de-crimp the end,
and you gotta work it out at the plug end..... I may have pushed the
screw arm into the unit I don't remember that well..... It did look like
yours, I remember the little metal ears that were held with rubber thing
so it was not quite that loud when it went off....

Look at this thing....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Door-Lock-Actuator-For-Ford-Aerostar-Tempo-Ranger-Pickup-Truck-New-746-147-/251594519921?fits=Year%3A1979|Make%3AFord&hash=item3a9433b571&vxp=mtr


.

There are door lock actuators on ebay from $30. on up, all depends on your
appetite for how you wanna fix it.... You can open, close, and lock unlock the door without these things, so take it out and work
on it till you fix it....

You know what it is..... It's just neat to take it apart learn how it works and fix it yerself.... It's just fun....

Oops- yah you gotta hold it good, put the body in a vise, de-crimp the end,
and you gotta work it out at the plug end..... I may have pushed the
screw arm into the unit I don't remember that well..... It did look like
yours, I remember the little metal ears that were held with rubber thing
so it was not quite that loud when it went off....

Look at this thing....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Door-Lock-Actuator-For-Ford-Aerostar-Tempo-Ranger-Pickup-Truck-New-746-147-/251594519921?fits=Year%3A1979|Make%3AFord&hash=item3a9433b571&vxp=mtr


.
Squirrel boy, I owe you a beer or a bag of cashews!...I'm not sure which... :scratch2:

That is less than half the price of an original (on the 'bay), and appears to be the same exact thing as the only new replacement listed as compatible (see link below) yet only about 1/10 the price. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1977-79-Lincoln-Mark-V-Electric-Power-Door-Lock-Actuators-New-/111345441812?hash=item19ecb49c14&vxp=mtr

I can afford and justify 14$ on a new motor.

I did get the old one open....And it looks like the titanic on the inside. :yuck: The rotor has rusted and expanded/melded with the stator magnet to the point that freeing the rotor would involve destroying the motor around it (which my attempts to free it ended up doing :no: ).

I know it will work without the motor (otherwise how have I been getting in and out all this time) so for the time being the door is back together minus the motor.

Cashews are poison to us squirrels as they are actually beans.....
I'll take an Almond ! :) :)

Good to hear you got it open..... Sorry it's trash.....
They are pretty neat inside.....

What I meant, was in some cases the lock actuator makes up a link in the rods
and levers to work the lock manually.... But in the older cars it can be
removed with no troubles..... I see you know that :)

I worked on our car's door locks more than 20 years ago, less time along the
rust time line..... I guess yours had lots of time to rust up really good.....:(

.

I got the new lock motor in. Surprisingly the middle length shaft in the package best matched the original. One annoyance is that the retainer pin for whatever shaft is selected did not want to go into the hole....I tried pushing/compressing it in with pliers and have a blood blister to show for that. I also tried hammering it with no luck asside from further damaging the retainer pin. My solution was to remove the pin slide a short thinner nail through the collar and shaft (where the pin was supposed to go), cut the sharp end off and bend the nail so that it can not fall out (a poor man's cotter pin if you will).
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/DSCN7242_zpswoyz07iw.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/DSCN7242_zpswoyz07iw.jpg.html)

The cracked section on the arm rest I glued last time came apart so I'm re-gluing it, and adding reinforcement. If it fails again I may try to get another....There is a yard out in Rockford (not close, but not too far) that supposedly has a 78 Mark. I plan on going there once I've graduated (and have time to do so), and grabbing some odds and ends I need and anything else that may be of use within reason. If it has the driver side door rest in better shape I may grab it, and if it is the wrong color just paint it black.

Was at the Carlisle Spring car car show yesterday. It was this week/weekend. did you go like I instructed? noooooooo

why not?

I didnt cover the entire grounds and in my 8 hours there saw *2* of your cars. A 1979 with the four hunnert, and a 77 with the 460. Both in show quality shape. Tons and tons of parts to boot.

You shoulda been there

Was at the Carlisle Spring car car show yesterday. It was this week/weekend. did you go like I instructed? noooooooo

why not?

I didnt cover the entire grounds and in my 8 hours there saw *2* of your cars. A 1979 with the four hunnert, and a 77 with the 460. Both in show quality shape. Tons and tons of parts to boot.

You shoulda been there
I could not have made it if I wanted to (and I would have liked to go there). I'm in what is going to be (one way or another) the last academic quarter of my college education, and I need all the study time I can get to graduate. I'm out of funds and credit so it is pretty much graduate now or drop out....My course work load is pretty much the usual fare of my school: work us nearly to the point where students actually start act on the desire to beat up the faculty for all the crap they pile on/pull on us.

I can't even make the ETF meet next week in Ohio (which is a lot closer to me), and it about KILLS me to miss that one (and this is the second year in a row of missing that)...

I'm about 4 weeks out from my diploma. Once I have it (and am free from the slave labor studying) I plan to widen the geographic region of radio meets I attend as much as I can (beyond anything it has ever been), and start attending car shows.

There is a good size local one that was held weekly at the Wisegerbers Gaust house (spelling may be wrong) last summer that I'm going to show up at if continued this year. There is one at the Kiltie a historic drive in near by that I want to go to too.....Though my Mark has enough rust weep from the vinyl half roof and minor imperfections that it is not quite show quality....I'm gradually working towards it though.

Hey EM- sounds like you need a pick me up !
Thought you would like (or not) reading the well tuned "car guy" Paul Niedermeyer's
review of the mighty Mark's which spawned the '78 that leaks all over yer parents
driveway.... I was going through some of my bookmarks - found a few links that
lead me back to TTAC - I use to read it all the time, then after re-reading a few
choice reviews of '80's GM cars, I thought, hey look up the '78 Mark 5....
Not that he did one for your car exclusively, but you can see it in the type....
Enjoy.....

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/02/curbside-classic-1975-continental-mark-iv/

PS- And yes I got a sense of humor, and I can take it too.....
Yes he also pissed on my first car too.....

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/11/curbside-classic-1973-ford-mustang-mach-1/

Oh hell - this is the one that started it, ya might as well read this one too....
Maybe read it first.... It's really good....

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/12/curbside-classic-1980-chevrolet-citation-gms-deadliest-sin-ever/


.

I could not have made it if I wanted to (and I would have liked to go there). I'm in what is going to be (one way or another) the last academic quarter of my college education, and I need all the study time I can get to graduate. I'm out of funds and credit so it is pretty much graduate now or drop out....My course work load is pretty much the usual fare of my school: work us nearly to the point where students actually start act on the desire to beat up the faculty for all the crap they pile on/pull on us.

I can't even make the ETF meet next week in Ohio (which is a lot closer to me), and it about KILLS me to miss that one (and this is the second year in a row of missing that)...

I'm about 4 weeks out from my diploma. Once I have it (and am free from the slave labor studying) I plan to widen the geographic region of radio meets I attend as much as I can (beyond anything it has ever been), and start attending car shows.

There is a good size local one that was held weekly at the Wisegerbers Gaust house (spelling may be wrong) last summer that I'm going to show up at if continued this year. There is one at the Kiltie a historic drive in near by that I want to go to too.....Though my Mark has enough rust weep from the vinyl half roof and minor imperfections that it is not quite show quality....I'm gradually working towards it though.

Near as I can remember it, the last term is supposed to be a grease job, except for the final project and any thesis...(my last project was a Prolog-based translator to turn the engineering dept fortran programs into pascal as well as the emacs user manual)

anyways, once you have the diploma, a NEW work starts - or should. One where you are on station by 8am in some sort of monkey suit and tie and have to keep quiet a lot. Sometimes you get an 'office space' type job, others are like 'head office' and in this day and age like 'secret of my success'.

But its important to take time to smell the roses. The multitude of car shows near me are my roses (it used to be also weekly ATV trips but Im 50 - its often a painful task to keep up with my teenager.)

Of note, ever see 'white litghning' with burt reynolds? this show auctioned off his bandit TA and at the show I swear was his lightning ford - giant 4 door sedan with a killer 429, 4spd and cop tires....

Near as I can remember it, the last term is supposed to be a grease job, except for the final project and any thesis...(my last project was a Prolog-based translator to turn the engineering dept fortran programs into pascal as well as the emacs user manual)

anyways, once you have the diploma, a NEW work starts - or should. One where you are on station by 8am in some sort of monkey suit and tie and have to keep quiet a lot. Sometimes you get an 'office space' type job, others are like 'head office' and in this day and age like 'secret of my success'.

But its important to take time to smell the roses. The multitude of car shows near me are my roses (it used to be also weekly ATV trips but Im 50 - its often a painful task to keep up with my teenager.)

Of note, ever see 'white litghning' with burt reynolds? this show auctioned off his bandit TA and at the show I swear was his lightning ford - giant 4 door sedan with a killer 429, 4spd and cop tires....
It would be a easy quarter if I did not have 3 lab courses (which last quarter I (re?)discovered was unsustainable), one of my teachers was not a complete idiot who is sometimes more being taught by the class than teaching it, and I did not have 2 days of 8AM class (I've never been a morning person). Last year I took the senior design course, and that thing drove me to the edge of insanity (I caught myself nearly peeing in bathroom trash cans, jumping down flights of stairs, and muttering "I want to go home" while at home, all for no reason) since we bit off more than we could chew, and I had a number of courses that were hideously complex and challenging. This my fifth year and thanks to a summer internship my burnout from last year never completely dissipated. My mind ain't being bent as bad as last year, but the excess busy work is about the last thing I need.
My roses have been the local radio meets, but that has been on the decline. It used to be I hit all the Local and Chicago meets, but then college started and it all gradually got to the point that this year I have not made a meet since fall and the local ones are maybe 5-15 minutes away from school...It would help if they did not hold them from about 6:45-8:30AM (it goes on longer, but way too many folks leave early) on Sundays when I stay up late for my only weekly TV viewing on Saturday (A few times I almost drove myself, then choose sleep instead).

I've never seen "White Lightning" (I may try to now), but I considered a Ford sedan or two from that era when I was looking for a car. I liked the looks, and half decent ones could had for about 1K$...Which would have left me plenty of money to play with, and I would not feel as bad about being in an accident in something so cheap....There are enough bad/suicidal drivers out here that defensive driving is a must, especially on the highway.

At the demo derby on the 3rd 2 lincolns were entered. an older 75ish and a 79 with a 400. Both didnt last and ended up in the consy round where they didnt last. The 75 should have won everything, but the guy lost before he showed up - he didnt weld the spiders and used the worst cheapest used snow tires he could find on the rear. Once they flattened, the car would not move. It outweighed everything there by 1000lbs and should have cleaned up....

I have not had much time for my car or the forums lately due to unpleasant circumstances lately which I'll try to go into at the end.

I'll start with the good stuff. When I bought it there was a significant amount of rust below the vinyl roof on the passenger side, and it had been there long enough to stain the paint orange beyond any normal wash's ability to clean.
The paint had become dull and spotty, and an aborted automatic wash, at a gas station who's car wash has a bad reputation, left the paint streaky. I was about to declare the paint dead, but decided to try waxing it as a last ditch effort. I bought a can of Turtle wax and also a can of their pre-wax polishing compound....That polishing compound is AMAZING! It actually removed the rust stains from the paint.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN0094_zpsefudawgn.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0094_zpsefudawgn.jpg.html)
Left is a before showing the stains, right is the polished cleaned surface. I cannot begin to express how happy I was when those horribly obvious rust stains on the paint scrubbed off. And after the wax it looked about as shiny as I'd imagine it did when new. I plan to re-polish some bad areas (tenacious bird crap and bug remains) I did before I give it another wax.

Now for the bad....Technically yesterday (as I write this) The starter motor shorted. I went to a local weekly car show, ran some errands, and took it to a local drive in that I've mentioned before with no problem, but once I finished eating and tried to start it, as soon as the key went to crank position the whole electrical system went dead and did not come back when the key was released. I popped the hood and jiggled the battery cables and it came back so I cranked it again with the hood open and saw sparks. After all trying once or twice more I left the ignition on and used a jumper cable to bridge from the battery to the motor side of the starter relay and was able to get it to crank once, but it needed the gas pressed to start, and I was not in reach of the throttle so that last chance was wasted. Subsequent attempts with help failed and the starter barely wanted to turn and heated the heck out of the stout jumper cable...I had it towed home and before the tow we tried a booster battery and the tow driver reached the same conclusion I did. Tomorrow I'm going to have to do some research into where I can get a motor and see if feasible it will be to do it my self...

I also have been too busy to get to the driver side door power lock failing again (if that new motor failed I'll have to wonder), and the 8-track scraping and running slow...Those have been bugging me for about a month now.

As for me being occupied, well....The company my dad works for which manages nursing homes has been nearly ran out of business by Obamacare. And a Saudi company has purchased it to rip it's real estate resources off and spin the company's objective off into another likely-to-fail orphan business to whom the Saudis will then rent the real estate resources they ripped off back to. This new enterprise is downsizing from what it was, and before the year is out my Dad will no longer be employed by them. His job search locally in the past few months has not been encouraging, and if this continues he will have to look for positions that will require relocation....I've been planing to keep living with my folks until I've saved the money to buy my own home with no or little credit. My basement workshop became a nightmare over the last school year, and I've been trying to dump excess junk, complete MANY half done projects, get it clean enough that I can find screws I drop on the floor, etc. I'm doing great things with my electronics hobby, but am under too much pressure to enjoy it. This has been eating my time along with the folks making me help them remodel the house in preparation for selling it....A situation I've been in before and hate...I'd sooner burn it down for insurance than break my back to see it nice for a short time and have to leave it....My life is becoming a continuous case of get used to where I'm living, waste my life at metaphorical gun point to make my home nice so I can move away against my will (I need a shoots self in head emotacon). To make matters worse I kinda need to look for a job so I can afford to do some things I want to do to my car, save money, build my collection, pay student loans, etc, but I can't since I'd likely have to quit and move in a few months. This whole mess has left me in a chronically angry depressed emotional/psychological state.
....I should probably shut up now I'm half asleep and pissed off which is a bad combo.

That same polishing compound also works well on dull Bakelite radio cabinets.

Polishing compound is more abrasive than wax, and there are several different
types, you can find at automotive paint supply stores.... Wax is very lite abrasive.

Sorry about your life, but get use to working. Your dad's job is like one of my wife's and
mine's friend, close to retirement she may end up retiring sooner.... who knows...
She is a medical biller or some kind, works for a Catholic based hospital I think.

It's not Obamacare's fault, health insurance and the health care industry is too
dam expensive for most people, you will find that out soon enough.....
Healthcare needs to be made affordable or it needs to close..... $10. Aspirin anyone...?

This is a time for you to prioritize what you need to do to secure your future. I have
not worked on a tv in 20 years as I worked my landscaping job after EET degree.
I graduated during the Regan Recession, Oil Slumped really bad, Economy SUCKED,
I stayed with my summer job because it was doing well.... My contributions to the
company made it doubly profitable, and I was well rewarded, In short use your
skills in any way you may need to....

You - graduating in the next few years.... You will be graduating during the Next
Republican Recession, and it will be bigger than the last. If you have not kept up
with current events, this "recovery" has not lead to better pay, or lots of jobs...
Be Very Careful how much Debt you accumulate NOW. My Mechanical engineering
cousin now about 60 has done most of his work designing pressure vessels, and
industrial production equipment related to pharmaceutical, and chemical processes,
in the last 20 years in India, China, and the Eastern BRIC countries. Today the
industry sucks, not much is designed here, his company now repairs existing equipment.

Many of the people I went to school with for engineering are now readjusted into the
service industry.

The world is a growing place, and growth takes place where it is most profitable.
Where costs are the lowest, where workers are exploited the most. Those who
choose to compete will be meeting those costs. AKA Being laid off and rehired with
a new title paid less, work more..... Sorry it's the new new reality for some...

Hope things turn out better....

PS Funny, before Avon, my wife worked for a growing advertising list company,
It was bought by a guy unlike the owner of Arbusto Oil, someone who
lost money on every business investment. Imagine not being able to find
Oil in Texass.... This guy bought the company,
sold off profitable parts, gutted it and eventually it was bought by a much
smaller competitor years later.... Kinda like your Dad's situation....
It worked out ok.... for now....

PS2 - That car..... Junk it for something cheap to run, and practical, till you
have the time and money for something to play with.....

.

That same polishing compound also works well on dull Bakelite radio cabinets.
Thanks, I've got a couple of sets which could use a polish, and plenty of the stuff left.

I got the new starter in yesterday after spending Thursday night prying it loose. I'd have gotten it unmounted a LOT faster if I'd have realized that the top bolt goes in from the back (instead I assumed it was missing since I could not see it). That bolt is easy-ish to get at from the open hood if you look for it and have arms as long as mine. After I got it off I let it sit in the cars front end until yesterday when I figured out that the easiest way to get it out is to steer left so there is enough of a gap between the suspension and the steering rods to slide it out of the nook it resides in. The gear teeth all looked good so I got and installed a replacement. It is back to working as good as always now.:thmbsp:

The bad starter appears to be the original Motorcraft part ~38 years ain't a bad run for a part like that.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0115_zpsf095ssvr.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0115_zpsf095ssvr.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0116_zpssy1mtxs5.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0116_zpssy1mtxs5.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0117_zps6ueur80l.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0117_zps6ueur80l.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0119_zpsagvr3kdw.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0119_zpsagvr3kdw.jpg.html)

I built up some muscle prying the old one free. It is quite empowering doing work that most people I know would not know how to do much less want to try.



Warning to those wanting to read about cars the rest of my post is mostly way off that topic.

Squirrel boy I was starting to think you were a cool guy, but your last post makes you sound like a damn Commycrat.


Sorry about your life, but get use to working. Your dad's job is like one of my wife's and mine's friend, close to retirement she may end up retiring sooner.... who knows...
She is a medical biller or some kind, works for a Catholic based hospital I think. My Dad is a step below the Director of the employee benefits department knows more than her and has the credentials to back it up, and would have had her job after she retires were it not for this.

It's not Obamacare's fault, health insurance and the health care industry is too dam expensive for most people, you will find that out soon enough.....
Healthcare needs to be made affordable or it needs to close..... $10. Aspirin anyone...?
Not Obamacares fault!?!?...BULLSHIT!!! Dad has been with that large nursing home operating company since the latter part of the Bush administration. When he started the company was prosperous most people there were getting good raises and bonuses the company rented out a HUGE Ballroom in the Marcus Center for the performing arts annually for the Christmas party, etc. Sure the great recession had some effect, but things were stable and relatively unaffected until Obamacare was passed....Then it all went in to the toilet Christmas party gone, bonuses almost non existent, raises essentially gone...I can count on one hand the number of people that got even a meager raise since that damned act passed (and the only one dad has got was due to him studying and getting additional credentials) the cost of living was near the margins of his salary before raises stopped and health insurance (thank you obamacare, thank you commy Democrat bastards this is exactly the opposite of what you claimed it would be) and other cost of living increases have squeezed us.
Healthcare needs to be affordable or close, you say? So by that that logic if you decide your to offer your RCA 630 set for $10000 the government should stop you form ever dealing in TVs again because it is not affordable? That is nuts! Ignoring the blatant stupidity of arbitrarily artificially putting an industry into layoffs during a massive economic slump....Do you have no concept of a FREE MARKET (which the USA is supposed to be)? In a free market a service (or product) is worth what someone will pay for it. If there is no customers due to expense the service ceases to exist or changes to meet demand. If a service survives on the rich and pockets obscenely large profits and there is a market for that service that is priced out then someone WILL come along and cater to that market with a cheaper leaner equivalent service. Whenever I hear a liberal prattle BS like that and tell those they have disenfranchised that they are fine and to shut up about their plight and not let the world know, a little voice in the back of my head starts of dreaming of subjecting them to horror movie like torture.
As for 10$ aspirin, etc, the Pharmaceuticals are corrupt pirates who spend several times more advertising sex pills than actually researching new medication, price fix, and hide behind patents to extort the American people for their meds, which often are dangerous poorly tested crap....Obamacare did not do a DAMN THING about that, and guess what none of the Democrats, Washington establishment republicans, and even some of the staunch conservatives will NEVER do a thing about it since the Pharmaceuticals BRIBE (oh, wait they call it lobbying) the crap out of washing ton to preserve their cartel. All politicians but the staunchest of conservatives are too damn greedy not to fall for it so it sadly may never get addressed.


You - graduating in the next few years.... You will be graduating during the Next Republican Recession, and it will be bigger than the last. If you have not kept up with current events, this "recovery" has not lead to better pay, or lots of jobs...

Many of the people I went to school with for engineering are now readjusted into the service industry.
I graduated at the end of May and got my diploma. I have not seen a recession that can be blamed on republicans. The Current recession that started during Bush's lame duck period was caused by Democrats in the house/senate and democrat/commy groups like Acorn (who Obama was part of) who pushed Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac to issue all those sub-prime loans, against sane banking practice, that set the economy up for the great recession. I remember Bush himself coming out against it and warning of what was to come, but he was powerless and his words went unheeded.
Recovery?...What Recovery things ain't in free fall no more, but improvements ain't happening either, and I don't believe the positive federal jobs reports any more...Every new one seems to come with a message saying the previous one was wrong and things are grossly worse than reported....Never mind that we've been doing this for many years and were more accurate before this administration that you can't do anything to make look bad, oops aren't we ditzes?....Please ruling party don't crush us and make us put out completely bogus data that totally ruins our remaining credibility.

PS2 - That car..... Junk it for something cheap to run, and practical, till you have the time and money for something to play with.....

Sure, but let's see you junk that 80's Dodge Dakota, or your tube TVs first. I'd rather have a cheap gas guzzler that I can do most of the repairs on my self, than an over priced modern efficient planed obsolescence mobile that I have to take to a shop every time it needs an oil change. I own my car for the same reason I use only tube signal chain TVs: I understand/can easily grasp what goes on under the hood, can do most important work my self, refuse to give a damn about efficiency, and like the style and service I get more than anything modern I could get for the price.

Sure, but let's see you junk that 80's Dodge Dakota, or your tube TVs first. I'd rather have a cheap gas guzzler that I can do most of the repairs on my self, than an over priced modern efficient planed obsolescence mobile that I have to take to a shop every time it needs an oil change. I own my car for the same reason I use only tube signal chain TVs: I understand/can easily grasp what goes on under the hood, can do most important work my self, refuse to give a damn about efficiency, and like the style and service I get more than anything modern I could get for the price.
Neither of us could take a 20-year hiatus from the TV hobby, we would go nuts! It all depends on how hardcore the hobbyist is. For some it can be a respite in trying times. Sure it's costly, but I do what I can, when I can. Since I got into this I have compensated for lack of equipment/good TVs/parts by reading up on the subject. I have a decent amount of that stuff now, but still a long way to go.

If I don't like looking at something and/or it's made on the cheap, it's worth nothing to me. That rules out most new cars, electronics, appliances, furniture. If I really like something but can't fix or use it right away, it will sit for as long as it takes to remedy the situation, but junking is out of the question.

About this particular car, I too am impressed by how well the wax worked. I'd do something about that rust very soon though and eventually get the quarters re-painted.

EM- sorry you feel that way..... It is fun being able to fix old cars yourself, That is why
we also have stuff around 1990 in our stable. Rust is the only thing that really will beat
you, as it did me for my old '72 & 3 mustangs. My roof on the '72 looked better than
yours right now, but eventually got soft, see they don't paint under vinyl, and they don't
paint where you can't see.... So Sorry for the bad news you will eventually loose.....

My '88 serves it's purpose, less than 2,000 miles/year, getting coal, trips to HD, etc.
And since I owned it '92 I think, no break-downs, still original starter too.

My break with tv repair was more or less I break from a job, actually a change in job.
From what I thought was going to be a tv repair career to landscaping which turned
my health around. At 53 I have not seen a doctors office in 20 years. But I always
liked the "tv set" and now with a house, stability, I picked up a few sets to play with.

When the frame rotted out on my Rustang I got a '89 Prelude because a friend at
college had one and it was really really fun to drive, ran great, very comfortable.
I didn't care for the Styrofoam bumpers, but cars now are all about protecting YOU
in a wreck, at 53 and seeing the decline in driving skills, it's something you may
think one day might be worth it.... When I was a kid, I got all the parts for my cars
at the junkyard, in there I always looked and studied cars that were in wrecks,
2 door cars that got t-boned for the most part had blood inside, you could see
especially in firebirds, the car squished the drivers seat as if there was no protection
at all..... It all made me think a lot.

Still good luck with whatever you do with the car, just hate to see you go through
lots of work on that car and loose out on it with rust, and time, and money....

Healthcare is not so much a let the market find a price, and screw those who can't
afford it. Eventually everyone will need it. The $10. aspirin story, is not a
pharmacudical industry price, nor patent thing, it is actually a story over 40 years
old, originally I think from 60 minutes. And it's the price people in the hospital
were charged for a single aspirin. (I would imagine today, it's closer to $70.
and hidden so 60 minutes can't do another update with the new prices.... )So with all the
layers of stuff that people pay for in a hospital stay, it drives costs to something so
outrageous that it shows up in itemized things like that little 20 cent item being
delivered to the patient at the cost of $9.80.

At your age, you should really broaden your views on the world, cable tv news has a
lot of crackpot views, and money behind all that you hear. In the USA there are groups
that go around with free medical care days in tents like they do on other third world
countries, and the lines are miles long. A few of these were on shows like Frontline,
ha, ha, not a Fox show.... This happens because there are soooo many people here
who can't afford even the simplest of medical care items, You should find this episode
and watch it. You can choose not to buy a $100,0000 tv set, you may not be able to
choose not buying a $100,000 medical procedure, it'll just happen, and you'll file
bankruptcy a few years later..... Our healthcare system is rated last among developed
countries, and I think they rate Cuba's better, or near same, and they are a communist
country.

You do understand Communism is only an economic system. In communism, the
Government owns the means of production. We have things here that are done
under that system, think roads, prisons, public safety, sky safety, I bet there are
many more. And they are done that way because it's the best way to do it. Imagine
if the company in Floridah decided they were gunna charge $1/mile for their roads
if all roads were privatized, and for profit. Others were within market, say .08/mile.
How many jobs do you think would be in Fl..., if more states adopted it how quickly
do you think trains would make a come back. Frontline, Dam them, did a few shows
on for profit prisons, you should watch that one too.... Profit driven convictions ended up
putting those who set up and run that thing in prison themselves.

Communism is hated be those who pull the strings, as you get older, and hopefully
learn more than soundbytes about how and why things are the way they are, your
views will be softer, and more enlightened. More "Commycrat" like..... When I was
in my 20's I thought more protectionism like, USA Right all the time, Business should
run it like they want, etc. In time I saw them ruin a lot, politicians all suck, the two
of them got us here today. A world where you are less likely to have a life as good as
your parents....... It started in high gear when Regan began breaking labor in mass....

Sorry for prolonging this off topic discussion.....
But then we are in the off topic lane, right.....
I guess this thread will be closed soon....

Good day.

.

It'll be closed soon enough if it doesn't get back on topic and out of the Politics immediately.

Time, money, and skill, can fix all automotive problems. I have a friend who has brought cars way more rusty than that Lincoln back from the brink of being scrapped. Look into a product called POR-15, It stabilizes rust pretty well. You just need to be vigilant and tackle it before it gets worse.

The roof is all still solid. you are not telling me anything I don't know about cars with vinyl roofs. There are some leaks in the vinyl, it accumulates on the bottom passenger side and has done what is there. The under carriage is in very good shape (I've had it on a hoist, and been under it enough to know). I've been keeping it covered during most precipitation to halt the advance of the rust. Part of me has been considering deleting the vinyl, removing the rust, painting/filling pits in the bare metal and maybe putting the trim back and doing the paint on the former vinyl area in a way that gives the visual impression of vinyl. If my circumstances were better I'd probably have started on that already... I'm now starting to think about shifting my attention back to Improving it. The driver door needs the power locks revisited, and the window angle adjusted, the 8-track mech has slowed and started a periodic grinding noise, I've got the money to address the exhaust (the muffler is going and makes a moan I've joked is the ship's fog horn), and I've always been curious about body work...This could be a good excuse to learn. :)

I can't stand letting squirrel boy have the last public shot at political debate here and I believe his opinion and characterization of my views is thoroughly misguided, but I'm going to be the bigger man and instead of posting the paragraphs of retort I've just written to his last comment, I'll instead say publicly say that 'I respectfully disagree with you squirrel boy' and take the political debate portion of this conversation private.

Now hopefully back to pure car talk.

Time, money, and skill, can fix all automotive problems. I have a friend who has brought cars way more rusty than that Lincoln back from the brink of being scrapped. Look into a product called POR-15, It stabilizes rust pretty well. You just need to be vigilant and tackle it before it gets worse.

Thanks for the suggestion I'll look into that.:thmbsp:
I've seen worse before shots of some very nice cars as well.
Boy did I write my last post slowly for you to post this while I was writing it.

Time, money, and skill, can fix all automotive problems. I have a friend who has brought cars way more rusty than that Lincoln back from the brink of being scrapped. Look into a product called POR-15, It stabilizes rust pretty well. You just need to be vigilant and tackle it before it gets worse.

I may try that stuff on my pickup bed, it has a good coat of surface rust on the
flat areas where cargo goes..... Something that is "hammer" resistant and they
say will NOT rust again is worth a try, and it's a reasonable price.... Thanks
for posting this, I have not seen it before....


PS - I have has vinyl roofs replaced before, you can find small shops that can
do a great job for around $3-400. I had mine done back in '86 for $180, and
they did it at the house.... The hardest part is doing the underside of the roof...
The part inside the car....

EM, Also, I can agree - we simply disagree on the things we are not suppose to
know about or talk about here. I still wish you well with house, home, car,
jobs, family, and your parents & their jobs.... :)

.

It'll be closed soon enough if it doesn't get back on topic and out of the Politics immediately.

Actually its economics....

but anyways, if you see that much rust by the landau, trust me, having done this for decades, its far far worse underneath.

Time, money, and skill, can fix all automotive problems.

bwahahahaha!

Try PA rust....

Last night we had terrible thunder storms...After being awoken from a dead sleep at 3 AM by what sounded/felt like a small nuke. I observed the trees blowing more than I can remember in a LONG time. A few subsequent boomers that interrupted my sleep hours later revealed that a limb was in our yard from a neighbors tree. Once I awoke, and the storm was no longer making the windows difficult to see thru I found it was a bit worse than I thought it was...
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/th_DSCN0130_zpsynwgg2ad.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/DSCN0130_zpsynwgg2ad.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/th_DSCN0138_zpshobux6ml.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/DSCN0138_zpshobux6ml.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/th_DSCN0147_zpsx5n7sycb.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/DSCN0147_zpsx5n7sycb.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/th_DSCN0145_zpsvu1lv7gi.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/DSCN0145_zpsvu1lv7gi.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/th_DSCN0146_zpszvi6vi7j.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/DSCN0146_zpszvi6vi7j.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/th_DSCN0154_zpsst5x0cbx.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/DSCN0154_zpsst5x0cbx.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/th_DSCN0144_zpsvg7s8l0y.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/DSCN0144_zpsvg7s8l0y.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/th_DSCN0140_zpsitl4ojea.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/DSCN0140_zpsitl4ojea.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/th_DSCN0137_zpszqnvbman.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/DSCN0137_zpszqnvbman.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/th_DSCN0133_zpsqtivsbcs.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/DSCN0133_zpsqtivsbcs.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/th_DSCN0135_zpscycwd8u0.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/DSCN0135_zpscycwd8u0.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/th_DSCN0132_zps86hanl4s.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/DSCN0132_zps86hanl4s.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/th_DSCN0127_zpsujffqpxs.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE/DSCN0127_zpsujffqpxs.jpg.html) More pics here:http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/library/My%20Car/Watch%20out%20for%20that%20TREE?sort=3&page=1

The net sum of the damage to my car that I can see: a $90 weatherproof car cover, and a big scratch on the back of the trunk lid that the pictures don't fully capture...It ain't deep so I may be able to polish it out. Another 6" and that big branch would have connected with the rear end, or 25-45 degrees rotation and it would have landed on the roof. Thank god the bulk of it missed! Dads car was around 6-12' behind mine and took some damage too (that is what ya get fer parkin me in all the time), but he left for work well before I had a chance to see how bad it was hit (it don't sound too bad though).

The vinyl is definitely going bad some of the places where it has come loose from the trim it is clear that is has shrunk/gotten brittle, and there are cracks forming on top that were not there last year. I think I'm going to start researching ways to deal with it.


PS - I have has vinyl roofs replaced before, you can find small shops that can
do a great job for around $3-400. I had mine done back in '86 for $180, and
they did it at the house.... The hardest part is doing the underside of the roof...The part inside the car....
Thanks, I have not tried to price it so that helps put it in perspective. I like the look of the vinyl half roof, but a part of me worries that even if all the rust is removed and it gets painted that putting new vinyl on is just going to help the rust eventually return...Though maybe I'm just worried over nothing. When you mention rust on the inside of the roof did you get that from rust through? I'm fairly sure there are not any holes in mine, and I'm sure there ain't no leaks (save for the rear corner of the door windows which only leak when hit with high pressure nozzles).


EM, Also, I can agree - we simply disagree on the things we are not suppose to know about or talk about here. I still wish you well with house, home, car,
jobs, family, and your parents & their jobs.... :)
.
Fair enough. I'm fairly sure the forum does not and legally can't tell us what we are allowed to know:scratch2:...What we can say here is a different matter though.
Thanks.

Looks like all in all you guys were lucky on that one..... Sorry anyhow....
Under the vinyl on one car was not painted at all.... Both cars seemed to have
an imperfect roof to body union. (weld) I was told before the internet, that
all imperfect cars got vinyl. On my cars, the inside of all the sheet metal had
no coating, to some type of gray crap, it all rusted. The vinyl roof, all of it got
soft, the cracks are because the rust raises areas where it starts to bubble, the
areas that have really good glue hold the vinyl down well, results it tears.
The tearing is too small to see at first, but water and salt gets in and rust
begins to really grow. The roof eventually is so soft with rust all over it, it's too
weak to be repaired with something, and needs to be replaced in some way.
Yes it's possible to repair any automotive damage, it's cost and practicality that
effect your choice as to what you are going to do with it. When I worked on my
cars, there was a thing called "rust converter" I used it, but it eventually flaked off
with new rust. It's hard to get it repaired everywhere when you still have to drive
it..... I put lots and lots of money into 2 rusty cars that eventually bent in half one
day when I put a jack under it, the other one that stabilizer, lower control arm strut
piece under the radiator broke off..... They had rebuilt engines, transmission, paint,
tons of rust preventative stuff, etc, all given to a guy that bought them for parts.
Had tons of fun with them, but just couldn't stop the end coming. Enjoy the car, but
pick yer battles, and in the end know when to say enough....
First cars are hard to make those kind of decisions on....

PS the rust you see on the outside, might be there along those bolt holes on
the inside of the rear quarters, mine were metal with some white puddy
on the underside with the little nut. Also a little rusty, along with the inside
of the rear Q. which was unpainted....

.

Thanks for the explanation. On the Mark V from what I understand the Vinyl was technically an option, but basically every Mark V had one unless a Vinyl delete was specifically customer ordered. It is a padded vinyl roof so the cracking is not because of rust...I can't imagine 1/4" of spongy padding not absorbing the expansion of rust enough to cause the cracks I see...Granted that padding could have a rust magnifying effect.

I am unfamiliar with what might be in the padding. But it is possible the padding can
hold moisture..... The early 70's cars, like mine, did not have padded roofs.

Vinyl was an option back in the 70's too. There were "packages" like today's DX, LX,
and EX model designation, where the vinyl top was bundled if they had a lot of cars
with bad tops. You know how it goes, cover it up, get it sold, even to give away the top.
And vinyl tops were very popular, people liked them, I really liked the black top on
my bright red car, it looked great together... Seeing so many, made the ones without
it not look as good.... My car the mustang Grand'e had A/C PB PS 351 Auto, they made
all Grand'e with vinyl tops. It was like an upgrade, they probably had the public hooked
on them....

And who would want a Lincoln without a plush vinyl top anyway....?

PS- You know, it's also possible that by the time they built your car, they decided to
deliver a better product than they did in '72, and that the roof is painted on the
outside, and that you only have rust bad along that trim strip..... It's also possible
that that fender was replaced at one time and there is a weld along that line and it
is the source of the rust. The wife's '91 accord had developed a strange rust spot
middle lower part of drivers door, and when I repainted the car, discovered bondo
in that area. Seems like the first owner drove into something, made a small dent,
had it fixed, and in the 20 years we had the car it rusted probably from poor metal-prep.
Also, that repair was done so well that I could not tell anything was done to it all this
time until I sanded it and got it ready for repainting.

.

I may try that stuff on my pickup bed, it has a good coat of surface rust on the
flat areas where cargo goes..... Something that is "hammer" resistant and they
say will NOT rust again is worth a try, and it's a reasonable price.... Thanks
for posting this, I have not seen it before....


PS - I have has vinyl roofs replaced before, you can find small shops that can
do a great job for around $3-400. I had mine done back in '86 for $180, and
they did it at the house.... The hardest part is doing the underside of the roof...
The part inside the car....

EM, Also, I can agree - we simply disagree on the things we are not suppose to
know about or talk about here. I still wish you well with house, home, car,
jobs, family, and your parents & their jobs.... :)

.

I had my 2000 Dakota bed coated with a spray on bed liner, instead of a plastic bed liner. I also had it rust-deferred, as there's no such thing as rust proofing. :D
You can buy a bed liner type product at the auto supply stores. I've seen it done, but if not done properly, it doesn't look to good. That's why I had done professionally, plus it never would've got done. :scratch2:

I agree rust almost always comes back..... I like "rust-deferred" -Very good...
I have done a few spots - weld in new metal, metal-prep it etching primer,
then regular primer on top, then paint, and rust has not returned - yet.....

.

The reason the welds look ugly under vinyl tops is because there was no reason to finish them if they were going to be covered. Standard practice back then.

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN0201_zpsvxzy4yjv.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0201_zpsvxzy4yjv.jpg.html)
I decided to try to fix some problems yesterday. I took the driver side door card off and found the NEW power lock motor I installed a few months back has went open (time to check if the vendor has a warranty)...
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0204_zpsnyhb0ftp.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0204_zpsnyhb0ftp.jpg.html)

Next up was the window click issue. If rolled all the way up on roll down there would be a loud click that would resonate in the pane. I thought adjustments must have been off for it to do that, but after playing with adjustments and greasing it, no change. Then I focused on the plastic pane bracket and noticed the track on it was cracked...Some playing with it revealed that the top track crack was allowing the runner in the track to move too far up as the window closed and the runner was partially coming out of the bottom of the track when the window was closed. When opened from that state the runner would eventually pop back in LOUDLY. After a bit of musing I came up with a solution. There is a bolt above the crack in the track which (along with keeping the track from breaking worse than it was) allowed me to bolt in a piece of metal to keep the cracked piece of track from moving in the wrong direction that was causing the problems...I just had to make and install said piece of metal. It may not be the prettiest repair or the 'right' way (I'd probably need to find a parts car to fix it the 'right' way), but it works exactly as intended...The track is solid again, and no more clicking.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN0203_zpshjmwe6qq.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0203_zpshjmwe6qq.jpg.html)

I also went after the radio and got the 8-track back up to speed/to stop scraping. That player seems to be the only one to like a Quadraphonic Swing tape after it was eaten by another deck, so I now have at least one quad tape with GOOD music to play in my car

As a sort of pleasant thank you while I was driving it last night after working on it, to charge the battery back up, for the first time since I've owned it the 'Miles to Empty' computer came on. :thmbsp::banana:
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN0205_zpsz3gcxhoa.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0205_zpsz3gcxhoa.jpg.html)

This afternoon I also noticed after it being parked overnight that the headlamp covers were half open, which surprised me since normally the engine vacuum drops with in 2-3 hours of the engine stopping, to the point those covers pop wide open.

....I've got it. :banana:

Three drives with the Miles to Empty computer working revealed that for every 1 mile of odometer increase it was drinking roughly 4+ miles worth of fuel.

My friend Chris decided to price out the parts for an ignition refresh, and at just over the cost of a tank of gas, and after examining a plug and the distributor I decided it was worth a try. I bought a new set of copper plugs (I considered Iridium, but those plugs alone would have cost about what everything cost using copper). We changed out the Plugs, wires, cap, and rotor (there are no points in my ignition system thanks to the Duraspark system). The last two on the list were substantially worn.

After the work the Miles to Empty computer was ticking off the miles in step with the odometer so unless that computer suddenly changed calibration it is safe to assume my mileage quadrupled. I have not yet calculated it (need to run it down 1/4 while clocking the miles), but assuming my last calculation (which IIRC was during a different state of carb tune than prior to the ignition work) was close to it's last poor-ignition value I've probably jumped from ~6MPG to ~24MPG....I tested it on stretch that was (prior to the work) consuming about 1/4 tank, after working on it that same stretch is barely moving the needle.:banana::banana::banana:

Best money I've spent on repairs/upgrades yet!:thmbsp:

If you have a 4bbl carb on that 460, as long as you keep your foot out of it, it won't do too badly on gas. I had a '77 with the 400/2bbl. It would do 25mpg on the highway if you didn't stomp on it.

Your mpg est seems high.... Spot estimates are not near as accurate as writing down
the mileage and # gallons put in on a regular running basis, and doing the math....
It all comes down to physics, 4,000 lb car, 400+ CI motor 6~16 mpg is what I would
reasonably expect on average, running, not spot, and the gauges are for the most
part not linear..... The upper 1/4 on my mustangs always looked on spot checks
like I was getting 25~30 mpg on my modified but non VV carb....

For gas mileage on a standard 4V carb, doesn't that one have those screw in gas
jets at the bottom of the fuel bowel....? You probably got 54's or bigger....
47 is the smallest, and then they are brass, you could solder a wire and stick it
down the center to make the hole smaller..... I did it on my stangs, did a little....

Good work on the window guide.

On those miles to empty computers, you gotta check to see what the design idea
was, to try and guess if they are actually worth anything or not.....

.

been a mechanic for well over 45 years.worked exclusively for fomoco.i saw many 429/460 engines.if tuned properly,these engines can produce excellent gas mileage with enormous power.25mpg on the highway is routine.18-20 intown is average.i once had a 69 ltd with a 429 4v.my highway mileage was always near 30 mpgs and intown around 21-22.cold ac,smooth ride and very comfortable.

At the beginning of the week I was going to visit a college acquaintance to acquire some RTR tapes. I got to the top of the exit and the right turn lane had it's own red light while sitting there I was putting away a charger, and someone came up behind and LAID ON THEIR HORN while the light was red (City drivers here are mostly crazy assholes, hence why I rarely go to the city). Startled, I assumed the honk was because the light had changed and I started to go (why else would someone be so damn rude?), but that was not the case and I realized and slammed on the brakes as I was entering the cross street....at the same time an suv was coming.....

The result: No one was physically harmed. The other driver's rear quarter has some small scratches and dents, and the rim of their wheel was damaged. I got the worst of it......If their wheel well had not hooked my bumper and pulled it forward I'd just be griping about dents and a turn signal lens, but in pulling it forward it ripped the piston out of one of the shocks that the bumper mounts to and tore the frame to shock bracket for the other bumper shock....I feel stupid for letting my self be startled/goaded into acting without due caution. The one behind me who startled me got nothing, but bad Karma, and my personal request to God that their rudeness gets them into as bad a situation as they caused me in the future.

After all the hullabaloo of reporting it, exchanging info etc. I strapped the bumper end that was unsupported due to the destroyed shock, proceeded a few blocks to my acquaintances house. There he loaned me a air wrench (using it made me wonder why I have not got one those yet) to get the bumper off so I would not have to worry about strap failure on the ride home, (and of course I got my RTR tapes).

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0639_zpstlsuzhxa.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0639_zpstlsuzhxa.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0641_zps91rq6snm.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0641_zps91rq6snm.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0643_zpsz62ptkha.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0643_zpsz62ptkha.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0640_zpsyr2fa3t8.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0640_zpsyr2fa3t8.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0648_zpshhhtka48.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0648_zpshhhtka48.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0647_zps1zwyzdqi.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0647_zps1zwyzdqi.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0646_zps3au8hhcc.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0646_zps3au8hhcc.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0650_zpsvs15jm1z.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0650_zpsvs15jm1z.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0653_zps8hshz4zr.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0653_zps8hshz4zr.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0652_zpseqchmrvi.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0652_zpseqchmrvi.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0651_zpsuzcamdju.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0651_zpsuzcamdju.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0657_zpsdk0d57ev.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0657_zpsdk0d57ev.jpg.html)

Both bumper-shock to frame mounts are damaged. The failed shock limited the damage on the one to being bent, but the other where the the bumper hinged is torn/cracked and about as useless as the shock that ripped in two. Between the scratches, the dents/bends and the thick gauge of the bent part of the bumper I think it will never be the same.

I've got a pending deal with someone on CL for the bumper, it's shocks, and their mounts, as well as all the lights (except the head lights), much of the chrome, a set of the optional aluminum rims/caps (why not have a spare set?), and some other bits for ~ $300.

I was able to bend the signal fin back enough to pop most of the dent out today, and after the ETF meet I'll make that deal and than pop the light and try to get the dents completely out my self (if that fails I'll see a body shop).

This is probably going to eat up the rest of the savings I've been using for a long post college summer vacation....Guess it's time to start applying to some of those jobs the folks have been suggesting I apply to...

What I've learned from this experience: When prodded by impatient/rude drivers I'm not going change what I'm doing until I've decided I'm damn well ready. And avoid city driving....It is usually rough on my nerves.

You're a new driver! The same thing happened to me! Three fender-benders in the first year, none my fault.
50+ years of driving and my defensive driving skills are rather good.
Going back that far, I didn't know about right-turn-on-red, that was legal in Illinois, but not here.
If you can drive in Chicago, you can drive anywhere.

I wanna say a couple of things about the '59 vs '09 Chevys. One, I really winced when I saw a CREAMPUFF 1959 Chevy being destroyed like that-As I'm sure most of you guys did, as well. Secondly, they KINDA "Cooked the Books" a bit, the '59 Chevy-well, ALL the 1959 GM cars had a "Wasp-Wasted" frame that gave Zero, Zilch, Zed protection in a crash, but allowed designers to lower the body so it Looked Better. They started going to the "X-Frame" in the 1957 model year, & used it til the 1965 model year. The point was well & truly made, however, that the older cars were pretty much "Death Traps" by comparison to modern cars.

Sorry about your ride man.... My Mom's '79 Mercury LTD Wagon got hit once by
someone backing out of their driveway, Hit in rear, it spun around and the bumper
fell off right there at the back of where the car stopped, or so it seemed.... Everyone
was ok, and that's when we also discovered it had some shock absorber system
holding on the bumper.... We got very lucky, nothing was bent, it all slid back together
and after fitting it all to line up, a small push against a power pole and it all went back
together and was never a problem after that..... If the bumper did not stick out past
the body by 2 to 3" they probably would have missed the car entirely....

.

Back in mid October I managed to get and install a replacement bumper. A bunch of other parts came with it for the $300 I paid. I got a better set of all lamps except for the head lamps all the side glass (granted the 1977 it came off of had the power vent windows so the door glass won't fit mine), much of the chrome trim (including a small piece on the passenger a Pillar that mine was missing), nicer spare door handles, the plastic bumper fillers, the original compact spare mine was missing (+ duplicate tire changing kit), and the optional aluminum rims (which are made of light :D see picture).

Front plates are not mandatory here so I decided to delete the front plate and holder. Sure I could have kept it on and mounted my chewed up front plate, but I think the front plate throws off the visual symmetry of the front, and the car looks better without it. :scratch2::thmbsp: Here are some pictures.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/DSCN0742_zpsrxb2e81w.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0742_zpsrxb2e81w.jpg.html)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0741_zpsnk566cty.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0741_zpsnk566cty.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0746_zpsdkmy11tl.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0746_zpsdkmy11tl.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0743_zpslafdfmei.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0743_zpslafdfmei.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0745_zpsfop2efwm.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0745_zpsfop2efwm.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0744_zpso4t37l7k.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0744_zpso4t37l7k.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0751_zpssa9uyxhn.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0751_zpssa9uyxhn.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0750_zpsqnbya7c1.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0750_zpsqnbya7c1.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0749_zps9wrmuctr.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0749_zps9wrmuctr.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN0753_zpszg8t58xy.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN0753_zpszg8t58xy.jpg.html)

Since it was unseasonably warm today I decided to troubleshoot the passenger door speaker....Which has been intermittent for the last month and a half, but mostly dead for the last month. Once I got into it I checked it's resistance...Wide open. Hooked an external tube amp to it, no sound. Turned on the car radio and connected a known speaker to it's terminals...It stayed silent, but the test speaker worked....He's dead Jim.
So I go to the auto parts store and get a $30 pair of 6.5" replacement speakers (might as well do the front pair for balance)....Jokes on me! That is too big, and the next size down is too small....Turns out good 'ol FoMoCo stamped the metal in the door for an odd ball 6.25" diameter round speaker to sink in to a shallow stamped well, and NO one seems to carry it....Also the modern ones tend to have tweeters inside that jut out well past the original and would prevent the door card and it's speaker grate from going on.....

I'm debating if I should order a 6.25" pair off the internet (and hope size is right and the center tweeters don't protrude), or fabricate mounts for a smaller pair (possibly made from the protective, center-perforated grates that were part of the original speakers to protect the cones from puncture)....I sure as hell ain't cutting up the door frame and or interior to mount those 6.5" speakers I bought!:yuck::no:...

What are your oppinions?

Front plates are not mandatory here so I decided to delete the front plate and holder.

Are you sure? I was pulled over for that not too long ago.

http://www.dmv.org/wi-wisconsin/license-plates.php

"Wisconsin law requires:

2 license plates on most passenger vehicles, displayed on the front and back"

Also see: https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome-psyapi2&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8&q=states%20that%20require%20front%20license%20plat es%20on%20cars&oq=states%20that%20require%20front%20license%20pla tes%20on%20cars&aqs=chrome..69i57.16277j0j7

.

Nice car Tom. Kind of shocked of the mileage ya get out of such a large engine(and heavy car). I'm too used to 10-20 out of my vehicle's.:grumpy: ('01 Cherokee, '94 Burb, '87 Dakota, '90 Wagoneer) and they've got nowhere near the ci your engine has. I wonder what that 2v 351M in my 'future' Torino Wagon can get?:scratch2: That thing is still new....for being 39 years old!:D

Can you possibly get your speaker's rebuilt?

Are you sure? I was pulled over for that not too long ago.

http://www.dmv.org/wi-wisconsin/license-plates.php

"Wisconsin law requires:

2 license plates on most passenger vehicles, displayed on the front and back"

Also see: https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome-psyapi2&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8&q=states%20that%20require%20front%20license%20plat es%20on%20cars&oq=states%20that%20require%20front%20license%20pla tes%20on%20cars&aqs=chrome..69i57.16277j0j7

.
Guess I'm wrong on legal grounds.....My dad's Accord that was bought in Fl, has never had a front plate holder (or front plate installed), and in the 8 years and at least 2 times he's been pulled over up here the officers never bothered him about that....I've passed by a number of radar traps (slow enough not to get bothered), and squad cars at the local fast food joints since the bumper change/plate delete and I've not been bothered either.....I suppose I could keep the holder and plate in the trunk and come up with some innocent story if I meet a hard-ass.

Perhaps the speaker could be rebuilt, but that is probably going to cost upwards of $30, and I think if I make an adapter plate and use cheaper 4" speakers.....
The factory originals are pretty cheap looking anyway. Just a single shallow cone with paper suspension with little travel....I'm surprised that they can out shout my engine with (effectively) no muffler on the highway. If I use smaller drivers (the perforated opening in the cone protector, and door card opening are both smaller than 4") I'll keep the originals so they could be rebuilt in the future.

Sure those speakers aren't 5.25? That's a common size between 6.5 and 4.

Sure those speakers aren't 5.25? That's a common size between 6.5 and 4.

Yes I am. The speaker hole in the door stamping is a whisker smaller than 5.25....You could not bolt a 5.25" in unless the mount tabs jut out beyond that measure. I can post pictures if you want.

Yes I am. The speaker hole in the door stamping is a whisker smaller than 5.25....You could not bolt a 5.25" in unless the mount tabs jut out beyond that measure. I can post pictures if you want.

Like this?

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-TS-G1345R-4-Inch-2-Way-Speakers-Set/dp/B00SAY8370/ref=sr_1_8?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1449877876&sr=1-8&keywords=5.25+car+speakers

not affiliated,
jr

You can search ebay, I have in the past found a few odd ball speakers normally
not available through stores.... Sometimes they have been pulled and sat around
for years and are OEM originals.... In some cases the parts may be used for years
then skipped 5 to 10 years, and the exact part is all of a sudden used on a new car
again...... My '73 mustang door handles the lift to open kind I have found in almost
exact size and design on a few Lincolns like yours.....

Also when it comes to speakers, they make some that are "Shallow" it
helps for keeping the original speaker grill and depth when it comes to
doors and window glass clearance.... Just add "Shallow" to your search
terms.... Also "Wizer cone" they are single wide range speakers that don't
include tweeters and also are in that shallow speaker dimension.....

.

Like this?

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-TS-G1345R-4-Inch-2-Way-Speakers-Set/dp/B00SAY8370/ref=sr_1_8?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1449877876&sr=1-8&keywords=5.25+car+speakers

not affiliated,
jr

Thanks. You made me realize that speaker size does not necessarily take mount hole dimensions into account. 5.25" turned out to be the right size.

Squirrel boy, Thanks for reminding me to check window clearance (I'm surprised I did not think of it). I had plenty of it, but it is better to know than be surprised. I ended up going with dual cone like you said instead of 2 way speakers since they let the tweeters protrude from the front on those....There might have been enough room for that, but better safe than sorry.

The dead speaker in the passenger door has been changed, but I think I'll wait for the (Second!) new driver side power door lock motor to come to install the new driver side speaker (so the door is not disassembled more times than needed).

Since the old speaker had a foam seal on it's back to block air flow between it and the door frame I made a cardboard seal to approximate that.

Pictures of it.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN1039_zpslxxrqwfo.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN1039_zpslxxrqwfo.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN1040_zps6au6janp.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN1040_zps6au6janp.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN1041_zpsz8o7qmbm.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN1041_zpsz8o7qmbm.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN1044_zpslcxtevup.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN1044_zpslcxtevup.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN1042_zpswg6wtsgd.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN1042_zpswg6wtsgd.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN1043_zps4qzwld0s.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN1043_zps4qzwld0s.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN1045_zpshyxrwyub.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN1045_zpshyxrwyub.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN1046_zpsilldhsl8.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN1046_zpsilldhsl8.jpg.html) http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i469/ElectronicMemory/My%20Car/th_DSCN1049_zps2c3zlsgm.jpg (http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/ElectronicMemory/media/My%20Car/DSCN1049_zps2c3zlsgm.jpg.html)

Looks like good work ! Those doors should have a set of 6X9's in them !
That would ROCK ! But then you would only get the window to open 4"...
Tradoffs.....

PS Maybe too late for this..... Don't forget about the plastic that keeps rain water
from getting on the speakers..... My mustang doors had that big polyethylene
sheet behind the speakers that I tore up getting it off the door frame..... At the
time I was not aware of the important role it played..... My cardboard door skin
assembly started to de-assembelate once it started getting moist.... Sucked.....

.

The original speakers had no speaker frame openings on the top back side and no need for a rain shield. The new ones do have openings but the cone is not paper....:scratch2:
There is no plastic sheeting inside the doors on mine, but there is a sheet of tar paper between the door frame and door card...

Back in early winter on a warm weekend me and a friend redid the rear brakes (the pad was so worn it's rivets were wearing groves into the rotor discs on the passenger side). We ended up having to replace the rear, pads, disc rotors, and calipers (the cylinders were stuck would barely compress enough to get the old pads and rotor back in). That went well, aside from two wrinkles: Emergency brakes don't work (and probably were bad before), and the pedal occasionally gets slightly soft. The Emergency brakes are some lever that ratchets the rear hydraulic cylinders to grab the rotor, but we could not figure out how to set it (I plan to read up and eventually revisit it), and the wire cable to one wheel was broken. The softness is not a big deal, but weird, we did a good job of bleeding the system, and it is not nearly as soft as that was when it acts up, but it does get softer than normal occasionally (and brake effectiveness drops a bit)....A partial release, and repress fixes it (or just push farther and have it suddenly stop hard) and it usually does not occur again on the same drive.

A weird thing is at a certain spot a couple miles into a drive at random times (done it twice so far) it will, taking off from a stop, suddenly start sputtering really bad like there is no fuel or spark, making almost no power, and be almost unresponsive to the gas pedal...It will go about half a block like that, stall, then not want to start. I had to floor it and crank it for a while to get it to go both times...Next time (if there is one) I plan to pop the hood, check for spark, then pull the fuel line to the carb, crank it and see if it's pumping fuel properly.

I got the other speaker in and RE-replaced the driver door power lock motor. I noticed the speakers are closed frame on top like the originals so no worries about water dripping on them. The driver lock mech is a lot more sticky with or without the motor than the passenger side (which is probably what killed the last motor) so I may have to take the lock mech apart and lube it soon.

I just had THE most fun drive I've had in it in ages, I discovered the auto-dimming high-beams work properly (boy are those fun), and picked up a 23"V-25"V Zenith TV (hard to tell the two sizes apart without a ruler) on the way. http://videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=266505

I love having a car with a cavernous trunk! I swear I had a piano in there once, and almost got the trunk lid latched with it in there. :thmbsp:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1699/25003861784_6806a88e27_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/E6vjZf)DSCN1393 (https://flic.kr/p/E6vjZf) by Tom Carlson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/137849736@N08/), on Flickr

I've been planning to take da Batmobile to the ETF meet so some sprucing up has been under way.

2 weeks ago: oil change.

Last week: new master brake cylinder. The old master cyl was leaking badly on the seal facing the booster (and probably internally too). With the old master the brake fluid dropped almost 1/2" in under 20miles on it's last drive, and was spooky unreliable/spongy. The new master is not having any noticeable drop in reservoir level over a longer test span, and brake performance is perhaps the best since I've owned it. I think I've finally got the brakes right!:thmbsp:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1678/26605424365_b64cb8d98d_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Gx2KKc) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1686/26332048350_24d192eb90_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/G7SCzC) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1604/26605408505_5ab08a90fe_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Gx2F2K)

Yesterday: New Muffler. Unfortunately could not duplicate the tail pipe section aft of it. The stores don't stock bend sections sharper than 45 degrees and near 90 was needed....Tried to heat and bend a 45 to 90 but barely had any effect. Tried a local exhaust shop but they could not duplicate the pipe on time or within budget. Boo! :thumbsdn:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1491/26539527601_46f8866fb7_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Grd1W6) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1588/26512259792_b05139c586_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GoNgas) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1653/26002013573_c193de1684_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FBH7JR) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1513/26605330295_9fb8066bbd_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Gx2gMi) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1458/25999742644_8ef6c23ee5_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FBvtEU) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1456/26001986723_ea0c5b19ba_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FBGYKV)

Got a chance to run it with the muffler off...It had epic muscle car sound, but it likes to backfire sans muffler...

With the new muffler it is whisper quiet. Me and my friend were joking while cruising "is the engine running? I can't hear it". Even floored there is little more than a mild "wooosh" from the exhaust with the new muffler. Now I can hear my radio without cranking it with the throttle. Part of me liked hearing the engine roar and burble too, with old bad exhaust, but a ~6 hour drive to the ETF with that volume level probably translates to hearing loss (and I've been MADE to NOT take it to interviews because the folks thought the exhaust noise made a bad impression:no:)...

Just test packed it for the ETF and it did not seem to like being driven under that much load. I was having a hard time getting it over 50MPH. It was sputtering like (hard to tell with the exhaust squelching it) the 2 previous times it randomly sputtered and stalled (which I complained about in my last post)...Then it smoothed out after some time floored and started gaining speed. I think I'll try finding the fuel filter and if it don't have one I'll try adding one. She seems do the random sputter and sometimes stall bit when below a quarter tank I've noticed. I'll probably drive her with less than a full load of TVs (I'll stick to claimed sets) to go easy on the suspension and the less than 100% carb and transmission.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1698/26512192402_3f35219290_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GoMV8y) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1445/26605281875_3780476b91_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Gx22ot) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1569/26512171472_1f848cffb9_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GoMNUG)

I'd seriously doubt that an extra ~300 lb worth of televisions is going to make any difference in the way that a 5,000 lb car performs. Definitely change the fuel filter.

You may also want to check the Duraspark module. These will also exhibit the same symptoms.

I'd seriously doubt that an extra ~300 lb worth of televisions is going to make any difference in the way that a 5,000 lb car performs. Definitely change the fuel filter.

Does the car use an in-tank fuel pump? That would be worth looking into as well. :scratch2:

The fuel pump is mechanical, mounted on the lower front of the engine.

Is there a recommended procedure for testing the duraspark module short of replacing it?

I changed the fuel filter today. All they had was a Fram made part, which I'm not keen on. The replacement is like a cheap joke compared to the original. It is literally just a pipe with a dome of fine window screen pushed into it (and when I got it the screen was loose). Only reason I installed it is because checking it's connection point showed that if the screen comes loose it is not possible for it to get sucked into the carb...It does flow better than the old one so hopefully that did some good.

It was balking and running ruff for a spell today early on (at low speed), but after a few minutes I was able to get it over 65 on an uphill. And faster on level ground (I had to speed to test it so I did not try to keep that speed long).

i remember these!worked for ford almost 35 years.overhauled many carbs and installed miles of timing chains.love lincolns and i drive a cadillac!

Stalling under load sure sounds like a fuel delivery problem. First make sure you're getting adequate fuel pressure to carb (I've done this by pulling HV wire off centre of ignition coil, disconnecting carb from fuel pump, putting thumb over end of fuel line and getting someone to crank engine.. It should build up a lot of pressure like a garden hose... Be careful if you do it this way though!!!) then check carb for proper operation and adjustment. Also, if you haven't recently, verify ignition timing. Actually maybe do that first since it's easy.

He got it going and made it to the ETF in Ohio okay.

.

There has been a LOT I've done with it since my last post that I should mention sometime, but I'm going to go straight to a funny story.

So I've been emptying the garage over the last 2-3 weeks getting all the electronic crap I've bought and tried to sell this summer out so the cars won't get snowed on. Tonight it is snowing and we raced this afternoon to get it done in time. I had 96% of my stuff out a week or two back, and got the last of it out last night (save for a console that technically is a friend's and still in there...somehow). I was helping the folks clear their crap. We were close to done, and I wanted to re-park my Lincoln (which I'm trying to keep parked out of the salt this winter)....

Some further back story to set this up is needed...Back when I fixed the power locks the driver side door motor had to be changed. The modern replacements have been lousy...Indeed there have been two modern replacements in that door in one year. The current one in the warm-ish part of the year gets sticky and won't move when powered without help. In the winter that motor has gotten plum stuck at times...To the point that the external lock cylinder and internal lock button simply would not work...I've had to enter on the passenger side and use the inner door handle (which overrides/pops open the lock) on the driverside to get in and out that side.

When I opened it up to move it tonight I realized I could not open the driver door from the outside (at least without risking breaking the key) and opened, closed and locked the passenger side door then opened the drivers door from the inside, and figured the driver door was unlocked since it opened. It was not! I had locked in my main set of keys both for this car and for my GMC* I proceeded to get my only spare set of keys for the Lincoln and keep the door open...I then asked Dad to confirm it would not block the garage door, and unconsciously shut the driver door to improve his view...A moment later I tried to get in only to realize I had somehow locked both sets in with the engine and lights on...:yikes::jawdrop::withstpd::dammit::cry: :tears:

A bit of freaking out later, a failed attempt to use a screwdriver as a key, and I was fishing a coat hanger into the window seal. The driver side was not working and it was hard to listen it's location out with the engine on...I was worried as the evening was progressing that if I could not open it soon that it would be too late for a locksmith. I asked Mom, who had realized my insurance could have it done for free, to make the call....As she did that I tried one last time...This time I had a REAL good idea: Since the frozen power lock motor was holding the driver side door shut even if I hooked the lock mech the coat hanger would not be able to apply enough force to open it, and that I'd have better odds on the passenger side. The passenger window seal was less accommodating but with a screwdriver I could get the hanger wire in. I kept trying, and at some point (that I did not immediately recognize) while I had me ear to the door I got it unlocked!:banana::banana::banana: I promptly opened it, then ran in the house and told the folks. Apparently I told them just in time to keep from wasting an insurance freebee. This time I immediately took the spare key and gave it to Dad to return to it's designated safe keeping place...I then shut it down and locked it properly (with both sets of keys OUTSIDE it)...Thank GOD I was able to open it.

If I look at it objectively my car was not ran all this week (I just stopped using it as my commuter car), and the battery was weak making it harder to start so the ~30-45 minutes it was running was good for it, and I learned a trick for getting into it in a pinch. All in exchange for a big helping of stress. It sort of makes me stand back and appraise how secure it really is....

I'm real glad I did not waste a nearly full tank of gas, charged battery, or a free insurance call for help.

I had to get it open since my only key-less entry remote for my GMC was on my main key-chain in the Lincoln. The GMC will go into alarm panic mode is opened without the remote so using that car's only spare key (which I was wise to have made) would have really SUCKED.

I took the entire lock mech apart back in spring to try and fix the very issue that started this blunder and determined the mech is free as a bird till the modern power lock motor is connected....I wanted to keep that motor in it, but this is the last straw(!) next time it is not snowing and I have time I'm going to mechanically disconnect that damn power lock motor! I need to find an original power lock motor to replace it with....I've lost all faith in and patience for the modern replacement power lock motors available for this car.:no:

I think I may have finally ended the power steering/brakes leak...I started commuting in the Lincoln again in the last few weeks and the Tuesday after the ETF when I went back to work I noticed the engine was smoking profusely when the wheel was turned, and that the PS pump reservoir was totally empty, I topped it off and later had a look with the hood open this time the leak was obvious and large on a pressure hose coming off the pump...It used to leak a bit but only if I cranked the wheel to the stop and held it there. Since I knew what part that was leaking (never could find the leak before) I now could fix it.

I was able to get the line/hose hybrid off easily everywhere but on the end that connected to the brake booster...After starting to round it I bought a line wrench, which finished the job of rounding it...After some futzing I finally decided to commit to changing the line even if it meant a new hydroboost unit....I cut the metal line off at the stuck fitting on the hydroboost then ground the head of the fitting down until I could hammer a socket, the next size down, onto the fitting. The socket and breaker bar finally got that fitting loose (it did what a day of penetrating oil hosings, heat, and the proper tools could not). :banana:

T'was fun fishing the new line in. It goes under the car near the radiator snakes it's way along the frame/suspention, pops up between the steering gear and the exhaust weaves between break spark, and PS lines to the brake booster, in a way that took a lot of thought/skill to remove the old, and more still to install the new...

The good news is that it does not seem to be leaking anymore...bad news is I'm thinking about changing the pressure line/hose between the brake boost and steering gear, and and the return hoses as preventive maintenance...Before I got that stuck fitting out of the boost I tried to loosen the pressure line out of the boost and it did not want to go so if I get around to changing those hoses it probably will be 'fun'.

I think I'll wait till I change the wheel bearing on the GMC...I wanted to do that earlier, but I was too busy this weekend helping build a screen enclosed garden for ma.

I'm thinking about removing the padded faux leather vinyl roof soon. The roof has gotten BAD over the nearly 6 years I've owned it and I think it's past the point where I can keep hitting the ignore button. My plan is to strip the roof and it's trim off take what's under that down to bare shiny metal, patch the pea sized passenger rust hole (I recently got a BOTB Harbor Freight electric welder, but have done more lead based body work ) then paint it Black.... I'm considering recreating the look of it by reinstalling the chrome roof trim, masking and painting the formerly vinyl area with undercoating....I suppose taking it to a shop and having a new padded vinyl roof installed is an option, but I really want to hold onto my money so I can pay off my last student loan and possibly have a down payment on a house in the next year or so (or have enough money to survive if this Corona virus crap collapses the country).

Pictures of the rot below.
So what say you? Sound plan, am I not doing it right or am I nuts?

I'm thinking about removing the padded faux leather vinyl roof soon. The roof has gotten BAD over the nearly 6 years I've owned it and I think it's past the point where I can keep hitting the ignore button. My plan is to strip the roof and it's trim off take what's under that down to bare shiny metal, patch the pea sized passenger rust hole (I recently got a BOTB Harbor Freight electric welder, but have done more lead based body work ) then paint it Black.... I'm considering recreating the look of it by reinstalling the chrome roof trim, masking and painting the formerly vinyl area with undercoating....I suppose taking it to a shop and having a new padded vinyl roof installed is an option, but I really want to hold onto my mono so I can pay off my last student loan and possibly have a down payment on a house in the next year or so (or have enough money to survive if this Corona virus crap collapses the country).

Pictures of the rot below.
So what say you? Sound plan, am I not doing it right or am I nuts?
After patching the rust holes, look into possibly using a spray on bed liner as used on pick-up trucks or similar.
I remember, in the late 60's, they made a coating that resembled a vinyl roof.
It looked pretty good. :yes:

I was in the auto body business; those tops can hide a lot of nastiness. If you're not picky (and by the mention of bed liner, I don't think you are!) you should be fine. I'd try not to do something that couldn't be easily reversed in case you decide to go vinyl again at a later date, or just go to a straight painted top.

patch the pea sized passenger rust hole
LOL you clearly know nothing about patching rust holes. If you did, you'd know that if it looks pea-sized, it's actually at least the size of an orange! Honestly, leaving it to rot would be the easiest solution here.

LOL you clearly know nothing about patching rust holes. If you did, you'd know that if it looks pea-sized, it's actually at least the size of an orange! Honestly, leaving it to rot would be the easiest solution here.

Don't underestimate MR Carlson! I've seen his work and he has the patience that I never had!
He did body work on his Suburban that was impressing! :thmbsp:

I've been getting crap from ma over not making it pretty...

I spent most of my free time last summer on the suburban replacing the missing back door rockers, leading edge of passenger rear fender to door jam (good Lord was that a huge cluster of bad old Bondo over bad rusted old shit welded patch),fender liner too, baseball sized holes in the rear fenders, and more... anywhere there wasn't old Bondo rust through was mostly limited to the hole that could be seen.

On the Lincoln I am expecting the unexpected, the Spanish Inquisition (Monty Python is going to be dissapointed if they show up :D ), and or terrible BS. It might not be as bad as I think though.

Don't underestimate MR Carlson! I've seen his work and he has the patience that I never had!
He did body work on his Suburban that was impressing! :thmbsp:

Thanks for the kind words.

I'm proud of what I did on the rear fenders, the rockers could have been a lot better especially if I hadn't waited till Christmas to buy my welder and just harvested and welded in a junk yard panel instead of hand bending and soldering in sheet metal.

Point of no return passed.

There's a good sized rust hole on the passenger opera window... about 5 screwdriver sized holes there too. And grinding out the deeper rust pits is slow and tricky (I'm thinking about dissolving the rest with naval jelly applying filler and painting it. Patching the holes is going to be interesting.
There appears to be some rust under parts of the seam sealer. I'm wondering if I should buy some seam sealer to refill what I ground out or if Bondo is good enough.
The top part of the roof despite having only the thinnest overspray of paint and primer and having the worst degragation of the vinyl was actually the least rusty only having a couple small shallow surface splotches that I can sand off easily. That seems to be dud to Lincoln using fairly waterproof foam rubber for the top but essentially a stiffer version of cotton stuffing to pad the sides...the top padding insulates against water but the sides hold it to the metal like a damp sponge....if they had padded the entire vinyl roof with rubber it would not have rusted like this.

Well I suppose seam sealer would be better for the seam, it's mean to be a bit flexible. I mean, you could probably just use ordinary painters caulk. Hell, bondo would work as long as you get all the old seam sealer out, but I suppose it really depends on how that seam is constructed.

We used to use panel bonding epoxy to replace that seam sealer. Incredible stuff, but can be pricey and generally requires a proprietary applicator. At least one company used to sell it in a unique tube that would fit a caulking gun. If I were going the body filler route I'd get something like Fibre Strand or Tiger Hair.

Since the seam wasn't really a tight seam like on a van but a 1.5" wide ~1/4" deep wavy bottomed dish in the body panel a few days ago I filled it with Bondo. I didn't remove much of the seam sealer maybe three 2" strips where there was obviously rust under it and ground down to metal a good way past the edge of the rust.... that showed me that aside from the bad spots I went after the metal was rust free under the old seam sealer....I considered patching the rust with new metal but I'd need a sheet metal brake or a new body panel to replace the largest spotty parts. There is a big hole on the edge of the passenger opera window that due to the curves is well beyond my tools and skills to recreate in metal.

My solution was to grind the metal till the orange of the rust was 98% gone and just black spots then hit it with locktite extend rust neutralizer to turn the spots completely black then Bondo over it...so far it has gone alright. I just need to get the surface a little smoother on both sides and resand the top of the roof and I can prime and paint it.

After some deliberation about deleting the roof chrome trim I've decided my years old impression of pictures cars ordered with factory vinyl roof delete is correct...It looks BAD without the roof trim. I now need to find new trim mount clips for it since a number of the originals had disintegrated and some of the remaining ones I destroyed grinding the rivets out so I could fix the rust beneath them...
I also decided not to under coat over the roof area....a test spray a did on the plastic back of a used up sheet of sand paper showed that the texture doesn't remain even after drying. I'm probably just gonna paint it Black matching the body color and leave it that way.
To reach these conclusions I painted one side black (I'm going to sand that off to finish smoothing the Bondo under it) and set all the trim back on.

One job in it's self was the rear window trim.... until I removed the vinyl I wasn't sure I even had a useable one... the vinyl covered it completely and asside from some glimpse of what I thought might have been it I had no way of knowing if was even present till I stripped the vinyl. The trim had tar adheasive tape sealing it's edges to the body and the roof was glued to it so it looked like hell when I dug it out....it took easily 2-3 hours of scrubbing it with paper towels soaked in goof off and scraping with fingernails to get that crap off of it. It wasn't bad underneath. The top sections had the same rainbow iradescent brass like plateing that speakers and chassis of some 70's Asian made audio amps have (it was mostly gone from the bottom) which I polished off down to normal looking stainless underneath. Most of the bottom clips for the rear window trim are orange dust so I'm going to either have to get more or redistribute the good ones to hold things good enough...

I've got it filled and primed...the primer reveals I need to improve the fill below the rear window and that I need to sand the sides and top with finer grit to hide the sanding marks.

Entering the final stretch. The final coat of paint is on... except for 2 spots where tree debris landed on the wet pant that I'll set sand at 600 and touch up.
Once those spots have curred I'm going to hand rub the whole thing with turtle wax polishing compound (possibly clay too if needed) to even the sheen at transitions between original and new paint. Then a coat of wax.
I also need to install the opera window and back window trim (instead of just setting it on to see how it looks). I plan to reinstall the roof trim too but I need to source new clips for it first.

I honestly thought it would look odd without the fabric top, but it looks just fine. Nice job, Tom.

.

Looking good:thmbsp:

It'll look even better with that chrome trim back on. I had a 72 Impala that was just one solid color (green), and I added that trim that goes around the back of the roof (I pulled it from a car at the junkyard that had the vinyl roof) and I really liked the way it looked with the addition of the trim even though my car didn't have the vinyl top.

Looking good:thmbsp:

It'll look even better with that chrome trim back on. I had a 72 Impala that was just one solid color (green), and I added that trim that goes around the back of the roof (I pulled it from a car at the junkyard that had the vinyl roof) and I really liked the way it looked with the addition of the trim even though my car didn't have the vinyl top.

Thanks guys!

I've got the all the window trim on (though due to the bottom rear window clips rusting away each piece of bottom rear trim is only held on by 2 (should be ~5) clips on each end.

I plan to figure out the roof trim in mid July. There was only one push on clip left on the small section below the opera window on one side (the rest of those have been orange dust for a long time). The band that wraps over the roof and the sections below the back window were secured mostly by these rivveted on parts that look like a histeriesis graph with a wire sticking out...some were badly rusted and most would interfere with needed body filler work so I ground them off...I need to source some new ones and figure out how best to fit them to the 1/4" holes the old rivets occupied. Also about 2/3 of the width of the roof trim was painted, but some of it chipped off... I'm going to have to respray that.

Last night I finished the rubbing and polishing treatment and took it to a car wash. There are a couple spots of overspray mist adheared dust I think I need t rub out a bit more, and I'm hoping to wax the polished areas in the next week but I may not have time.

Once I have it looking good I plan to shift focus to making it run good.