If your set has a degauss coil built-in then that is likely the humming sound you heard with that thermistor open.

If you see any BPC CRT sets at the curb you might be able to grab a free thermistor out of one. Da Shacq might carry thermistors or might not, you will have to check.

...Set powers up, than once a few seconds of warming up, major hum comes from one of the transformers, then sound and screen come on, major wavy pic and color bars, and screen doesn't fill all the way, and then I start to smell something burning... Kinda smells like oil burning...
That smell was likely from the degauss varistor, the larger disc next to the open thermistor.
The auto-degauss coil, if shut off abruptly, likely will have left the CRT in a "gaussed" state, depending on where on the AC wave the disconnect occured when you pulled the plug (or hit the off switch).

I ordered a few thermistors from Mouser, so I'll have a few on hand.. Radio Shack doesn't carry those anymore.. I called Moyers and they happened to have the varistor GE part number.. I ended up getting that in case I ever need it.. Also he has the 13K 7watt metal film resistor I needed, and ended up getting that also..

I ordered a few thermistors from Mouser, so I'll have a few on hand.. Radio Shack doesn't carry those anymore.. I called Moyers and they happened to have the varistor GE part number.. I ended up getting that in case I ever need it.. Also he has the 13K 7watt metal film resistor I needed, and ended up getting that also..

So I guess you don't need the resistors I sent you?

How much did Moyers charge for the varistor?

If your set has a degauss coil built-in then that is likely the humming sound you heard with that thermistor open.

If you see any BPC CRT sets at the curb you might be able to grab a free thermistor out of one. Da Shacq might carry thermistors or might not, you will have to check.

Most later model sets have a thermistor with a lower resistance at 25 degrees C - something like 12-20 ohms cold. Most tube sets (and indeed his set) have thermistors rated at 120 ohms cold. The Workman FR191 was the universal tube degaussing thermistor for large screen sets. Others, such as Ambassador, MidAmco bargains, and Oneida also made the universals, and even kits (FRTV and others) with the Varistor. RCA's 107191 was the same 120 ohm thermistor - we bought them from the distributor about 20 at a time for about a buck or two.

For BPC sets, you sometimes have a three-lead thermistor. Again, we either used an RCA 143596 (replaced the old 141238), or bought the cheapie Samsung "boxy" three lead. For all other two leaded thermistors for BPC sets, you couldn't beat the price on the LGE (actually Zenith) 063-10710/A thermistors.

I cringe at the folks buying the 24.95 kits off ebay - that guy is a rip-off.......

Cheers,

I don't need them I guess.. I wasn't sure if you sent them.. I could use them for later projects, so it doesn't hurt to have them.. Just let me know the total for the postage.. The thermistor is rated 1.2ohms cold.. I did order a 100ohm and 130ohm thermistor (in between) from mouser, which is arriving sometime today.... Moyers charged me $5 and change, but it's the same GE part number for the varistor..

Just received the order.. These thermistors they sent me are literally microscopic size.. Right Im going to install these into my set, you've got to be kidding me.. this is one reason I don't like ordering from mouser and digikey.. $20 wasted, again..

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=1DA101K-ECvirtualkey58240000virtualkey995-1DA101K-EC
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=1DA131Kvirtualkey58240000virt ualkey995-1DA131K
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF3084.jpg

No question they are the wrong thing. At $20 worth
returning for a credit or refund. The smallest DGS thermistors
I have seen are dime sized used from the 70's up.

On a thermistor you can solder the lead back on in a pinch
& it will last a long time. I assume its the thermistor in your pix ?
The VDR is what burns. Workman used to sell the pair, IIRC
FR922. Ive seen them on e-bay but at a criminal price in the
$20 range. Almost any old set can be a donor for what you need.

73 Zeno:smoke:

You can just jump the DGS coil out to work on the set
until you scare up the part.

73 agn Zeno:smoke:

I have it jumped already with the two red wires until I get the right parts.. I got something else coming from Moyers, and this whole order from mouser is going to get returned... With the magic marker in place and the circuit functioning, after the set running for a bit I notice the varistor right next to it gets very hot, to the point that you can't touch it.. Not sure if it was like that before and it's normal.. I never looked into it before it became a problem..

I have it jumped already with the two red wires until I get the right parts.. I got something else coming from Moyers, and this whole order from mouser is going to get returned... With the magic marker in place and the circuit functioning, after the set running for a bit I notice the varistor right next to it gets very hot, to the point that you can't touch it.. Not sure if it was like that before and it's normal.. I never looked into it before it became a problem..
The VDR is in series with the DGS coil. The thermistor in series
with the AC feeding the bridge. If the thermistor opens ALL the
current for B+ goes through the coil & VDR thus burning the VDR.
The thermistor normally goes to zero ohms when hot ( very fast).
When jumped the VDR shouldnt heat up at all.
BTW most newer sets just use a thermistor that OPENS when hot.
No VDR used, its all in series.
Also some use a DGS relay that closes for a short time so it
will DGS runs on every turn on. Some old sets also used a relay ( Admiral ).

73 Zeno:smoke:

I don't need them I guess.. I wasn't sure if you sent them.. I could use them for later projects, so it doesn't hurt to have them.. Just let me know the total for the postage.. The thermistor is rated 1.2ohms cold.. I did order a 100ohm and 130ohm thermistor (in between) from mouser, which is arriving sometime today.... Moyers charged me $5 and change, but it's the same GE part number for the varistor..

1.2 ohms cold is wrong - Sams say that?

Moyers doesn't sell GE parts - your part will be a Workman replacement. They give that fact away in their part numbers on their website - look at the end of teach part number they list - it ends in either FRXXX or FSXXX which are Workman numbers.

I have a stock of Thermistors for my CTC16, but if I had to buy, I'd buy an FRTV kit - thermistor and varistor all in one. Onieda (GBTV) and MidAmco also made similar kits, and they are available online for 6 bucks or so - no guessing, no having to order both separately. One kit and done. Don't buy from the rip-off on eBay - that guy gets 25 bucks for thermistor kits, and you can't convince me it costs 19 bucks to ship.....

1.2 ohms cold is wrong - Sams say that?

Yes, Sams says that...

I did order some of these to have on hand.. One of those China auctions..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151545436512?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I spoke with Moyers on the phone.. They don't have the exact part number for the thermistor, but they have the value.. While speaking to him on the phone the other day, he had that Varistor GE part number in stock, he gave the specs and everything..

Yes, Sams says that...

I did order some of these to have on hand.. One of those China auctions..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151545436512?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I spoke with Moyers on the phone.. They don't have the exact part number for the thermistor, but they have the value.. While speaking to him on the phone the other day, he had that Varistor GE part number in stock, he gave the specs and everything..

What's the GE part number? Again, I have LOTS of GE parts - remember how I had the NOS coil you needed? It sat on a shelf with many other parts....

It's ET14X195 and the Varistor is the same number but with a 6 on the end instead of 5.. I remember, and was very fortunate you had that coil..

195/196, use a Workman FRTV kit or GBTV kit- it has one FR191, and one FR066. $5.30 - 29.95, depending on where you buy the kit.

Moyers lists both of your part numbers on their website (http://www.moyerelectronics.com/Departments/Products/Thermistors/General-Electric.aspx) - but gives away that they will be Workman replacements, FR066 and FR191.

I don't have the GE parts, but found my GE to RCA cross (GE produced it when they bought RCA in 1985, to avoid stockage of RCA/GE dual-part numbered parts.) ET/EU14X195 is an RCA 107191 (notice the 191 in that part number and the Workman FR191 - they are the same), and RCA 114014 for the ET/EU14X196.

The Varisitor I got from Moyers that arrived today is a Workman.. He's able to look up replacement parts by the original part number..

I replaced the 13k 7watt resistor.. The HV is just slightly below the 25kv line now.. Still with HV control maxed out..

The vertical has slightly better range since I adjusted the vert linearity, Vert height control is adjusted around 95% for maximum height..

Is this all normal? Should I call this project mostly complete or are there other issues?

Got the tuner out, and the 6HQ5 tube that's right next to the UHF output which is RF Amp, is shorted, weak, and fails grid emissions.. I'm assuming that's why I'm having UHF problems.. Also the other tube with the shield all the way around it, I can't get to, to pull out.. I took some channel locks to try and remove the what looks like a top half of the metal shield and it didn't want to pull off.. I didn't try too hard because I'm not sure if that's how it comes off..

Update: Figured out the shield.. It slides down.. That tube is shorted, weak and fails grid emissions as well.. Both tubes are bad but VHF is fine..

I noticed that both channels 2 and 3 come in perfect as for picking up the signal from the cable box, which is set to channel 3..

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF3088.jpg

I'll try asking this again...

I replaced the 13k 7watt resistor.. The HV is just slightly below the 25kv line now.. Still with HV control maxed out..

The vertical has slightly better range since I adjusted the vert linearity, Vert height control is adjusted around 95% for maximum height..

Is this all normal? Should I call this project mostly complete or are there other issues?

If you can roll it either side of locked, and if the height/lin are correct on screen despite the controls being maxed I'd call it done (if it was not being repaired for someone else).
Component wear from use may improve control range or worsen it in the future, but if it broke don't fix it.

If it still bugs you, ohm out all resistors in the vertical stage and change all caps in that stage.

I was looking at the 7watt resistor I removed, and I noticed it's a 17k resistor and not a 13k, that explains the 17k reading on that one, but in the sams, it's suppose to be a 13k in that place.. Not sure if that was a production change, or if someone changed it out to a higher ko resistor..

I received tubes for the tuner.. Made no difference as for UHF or anything else (No Change).. When changing the VHF tuner and when I go past channel 2 the program comes in as clear on that channel as channel 3.. So using a signal source that's set to channel 3 comes in perfect on this TV on both 2 and 3 channels.. Is that an issue, or should I not worry about that? I don't see a switch anywhere to turn UHF on or off, and the black coax cord with the RCA jacks on each side is connected to each, and there is also a red wire that looks to be the B+ connecting in between VHF and UHF tuners.. I did check all the resistors that are pictured near the tubes, and all check in range, there are two caps in that area that are also pictured.. I haven't checked them, and really have no reason to seeing how all the orange drops that I replaced were good.. There is also that aluminum looking cap with a red line around it (Also pictured).. What also should I do?
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF3088.jpg

Is it the piece with the red wires wrapped around it between the tubes? If so, that is the tuner balun. It converts 300 ohm balanced back to 72 ohm unbalanced so the tuner can use the signal. Usually the only time they fail is lightning and it is very obvious as they get burned up.

I received tubes for the tuner.. Made no difference as for UHF or anything else (No Change).. When changing the VHF tuner and when I go past channel 2 the program comes in as clear on that channel as channel 3.. So using a signal source that's set to channel 3 comes in perfect on this TV on both 2 and 3 channels.. Is that an issue, or should I not worry about that? I don't see a switch anywhere to turn UHF on or off, and the black coax cord with the RCA jacks on each side is connected to each, and there is also a red wire that looks to be the B+ connecting in between VHF and UHF tuners.. I did check all the resistors that are pictured near the tubes, and all check in range, there are two caps in that area that are also pictured.. I haven't checked them, and really have no reason to seeing how all the orange drops that I replaced were good.. There is also that aluminum looking cap with a red line around it (Also pictured).. What also should I do?
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF3088.jpg

The UHF tuner is switched on and off by a jumper on the strip, in the UHF position. As long as you changed the rest of the caps, change the aluminum colored cap, as well.

Trying to follow the sams for the tuner, Sams lists two different VHF tuners. Model ET86X221 and ET86X248.. Mine is the ET86X248, but sams is showing a tuner that's alot different. I have no idea what that aluminum cap is, and the .033 cap that's in the picture, which looks to be cap 207, in the sams under the VHF tuner parts list, the cap that sams points to is a .001 that is soldered into that slug.. Sams is showing caps in areas where there isn't any on the tuner, same as resistors, and shows no cap rated .033 in the parts list at all.. I don't seem to see anykind of jumper anywhere also..

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF3115.jpg

First pic here shows the red wire which looks to be the B+ wire I was talking about
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF3098.jpg
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF3112.jpg
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF3101.jpg

Was able to bend the aluminum cap slightly and get under it with the camera.. Looks to be 047 20%.. Can't tell the voltage..

Update: Found out it's rated at 400v.. I have a 600v on hand of that value and changed it out.. No difference in performance.. I can almost guarantee you the orange drop is fine..
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/IMG_5582.jpg

A few notes on tuners.
Most tuners will normally tune adjacent channels if you
turn the fine tune enuf times.
Most common problem on UHF in GE's is the coax link,
they didnt solder the center pin !
You can plug a tuner subber into the UHF IF cable to test
the VHF tuner for UHF ops. When you put the set on UHF
it switches on B+ ( 12-24 VDC ) for the UHF tuner.
It also turns off the VHF osc stage & turns the RF amp &
mixer stages into two more IF stages.
Also it looks like it has a tuner cleaning pad. This should
be removed. They dry out & break up & make a mess.
Pop the cover off by light pressing of the claws on each side
of the tuner.

73 Zeno:smoke:

A few notes on tuners.
Most tuners will normally tune adjacent channels if you
turn the fine tune enuf times.
Most common problem on UHF in GE's is the coax link,
they didnt solder the center pin !
You can plug a tuner subber into the UHF IF cable to test
the VHF tuner for UHF ops. When you put the set on UHF
it switches on B+ ( 12-24 VDC ) for the UHF tuner.
It also turns off the VHF osc stage & turns the RF amp &
mixer stages into two more IF stages.
Also it looks like it has a tuner cleaning pad. This should
be removed. They dry out & break up & make a mess.
Pop the cover off by light pressing of the claws on each side
of the tuner.

73 Zeno:smoke:
I used to install the cleaning pads occasionally, especially on Magnavox tuners. They were actually sold by Standard-Kolesman. :sigh:

Looks like what ever padding was there was removed from previous owners, there's slight sign of it being there, as there is slight residue.. I unplugged coax cable and checked for continuity putting the probe of meter under the coil where middle pin goes into, and other side unhooked from UHF tuner and to middle pin and there is continuity.. I didn't open the UHF tuner and test the other way around yet.. So would I be able to test b+ by switching to UHF position, and the probe of meter to the red wire and black to tuner chassis and get the voltage readings you mentioned?
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/DSCF3145.jpg

Hooked my volt meter up to the hot wire running to the UHF tuner and other to tuner ground.. As soon as I go to channel U for UHF, the meter goes right into OL and beeps fast in DC mode..

Hooked my volt meter up to the hot wire running to the UHF tuner and other to tuner ground.. As soon as I go to channel U for UHF, the meter goes right into OL and beeps fast in DC mode..
should be 12-24 VDC. Any ground OK we usually grabbed the
main chassis. Resolder the IF link anyways, they just crimped
most of them. Two other UHF problems are: on some cheap GE
U tuners the drive would go. Also on any UHF tuner there are U shaped
grounds along the shaft. We used to pull them, bend them a little
& clean things real good. Then we discovered that a few drops of
WD40 would clean most of them without all the time & risk involved.

73 Zeno:smoke:

I measured by hooking the ground to main chassis and I'm getting 9.5 VDC..

Just located the tuner B+ info on the main schematic.. The voltage should be 19.5 VDC.. I'm getting slightly less than half.. Don't know where to go from there..

follow where that 19.5 vdc comes from, maybe a shared source on a network of resistors and one resistor is bad, the 19.5 vdc. sounds like what i had happen.

the 17k was the correct resistor to go along with the fly change.

I was wondering about the fly change and that resistor.. I'll end up putting it back in..

As for UHF, all the little pins are making contact, and I did bend them slightly with a jewelry screw driver.. There are a bunch of caps and resistors under the mechanism.. I'm not going to remove the channel mechanism to check those resistors.. I'm not sure where the B+ is coming from, it's very hard to follow the schematic as it shows different tuners..

About to wrap this project up.. I'm going to forget about the tuner, at least for now.. Convergence is pretty good, not perfect but the closest I've even gotten it.. Purity is pretty good.. Trying to figure out how to get rid or minimize the shadowing

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/vintageceilingfans/GE%20Color%20Roundie%20TV/IMG_6466.jpg

Convergence looks pretty good. I personally prefer to use a white grid/bars instead of dots since it shows the convergence variation over the horizontal and vertical planes more completely than the dots, but to each his own...

I actually used both of them, and I know what your saying, it's easier to use the grid bars.. After that pic I touched it up a bit more using the grid pattern..