Thanks to drdave3 and a good friend who (I don't think) wants to be named that was coming this way, I now have what's left of the Setchell Carlson department of Burr's TV & Radio in Sulphur LA :)

Still going through the piles of literature and schematics. Among this stuff is a 1956 model with a 27RP4 picture tube! :eek:

The test jig is a Setchell Carlson Color TV Service Center model 135SC80X with a 21FJP22 tube. Never seen sets so designed to be serviced. The chassis are plug and play units. You could do a recap on these by just "lifting the hood" and removing the modules by undoing two Phillips head screws and pulling them out.

More pics! :D

Wow, congratulations, Tim, nice haul! Nice sets, and the color test rig is very interesting, closed up it resembles a color "porthole" tv :-) I like the way the test rig has storage for it's adapters, etc. I have never seen those Setchell Carlson sets with the flip top, and chassis underneath, nice for servicing!

Haha, I just remembered way back when H. Ross Perot was campaigning, and he said something like, "We're gonna raise the hood, and go to work on that engine!" Please understand, I'm not trying to change the direction of this excellent thread at all, it was just an observation (memory), thinking about how the top flips up, like a car hood!

Thanks to drdave3 and a good friend who (I don't think) wants to be named that was coming this way, I now have what's left of the Setchell Carlson department of Burr's TV & Radio in Sulphur LA :)

Still going through the piles of literature and schematics. Among this stuff is a 1956 model with a 27RP4 picture tube! :eek:

The test jig is a Setchell Carlson Color TV Service Center model 135SC80X with a 21FJP22 tube. Never seen sets so designed to be serviced. The chassis are plug and play units. You could do a recap on these by just "lifting the hood" and removing the modules by undoing two Phillips head screws and pulling them out.

Slightly OOT, anyone in the Milwaukee or Chicago area remember the DeForest-Sanabria TV, with the original "Works-in-drawer" chassis. They came out in the early 60's. It's in Sams, under model DKW.
Unlike Motorola, the drawer came out completely. It used a Jones plug arrangement, that connected the antenna, picture tube socket, yoke, dag grounds and power cord. The HV anode was a separate insulated connector.
The newspaper ads, boasted that no home service is necessary. Just, pull out the drawer and take it to your dealer. :D

Unlike Motorola, the drawer came out completely. It used a Jones plug arrangement, that connected the antenna, picture tube socket, yoke, dag grounds and power cord. The HV anode was a separate insulated connector.
The newspaper ads, boasted that no home service is necessary. Just, pull out the drawer and take it to your dealer. :D

The Quasar drawers come out too! They use molex connectors. They supposedly had the same idea that service men could put in a loaner drawer and take the other to the shop, but I never heard of any that did that.

Those Setchell-Carlsons sure are nice to work on. Mostly aluminum too, so they'll last for a long time.

But where are you going to put all that stuff? :D

Man, talk about falling backwards into a HUGE Tub of Butter...You LUCKY Dawg, you ! (grin)

But where are you going to put all that stuff? :D

:dunno:

At present count (including the test jig as a set) I'm at 23 sets. I have such a feng shue going right now too. I'll be looking at feng shue in the rearview mirror really soon me thinks.....

This is what it looks like now though :)

A 27" ? That is a nice find! I have the 21" version, from 1955. Mine doesnt have the radio or record player options though. Also have a 1968 S-C school tv, but its branded Wollensak instead of S-C.

ultimate man cave!!!

If the jug has any life left, I want the twenty seven inch.

Alright. Well, I have worked on de forest sanabria sets, and, once had a termite infested setchel carlson. It was easy to take the individual chassis's out, but, I wan't having any luck trying to fix issues, and, cabinet was filled with termites, so, I gave up.

They're not real common, but, not a big ticket set, either. The big selling point was set acted up, you called the company, they sent a tech out with a replacement chassis to supposedly fix your problem They really weren't a high grade set. Mine was a 21" with A M radio, and, a four speed VM record changer in a drawer that also containned the speaker. Not good in the fidelity department.

It is interesting to see those tube-type chassis modules. Setchell-Carlson (and its later name Audiotronics) made commercial video monitors that also had plug-in modules through the late 1980s or early 1990s, but they were much smaller and solid-state. Those monitors often just ran and ran and ran, 24 hours per day for sometimes 20 years (if there was any life in the CRT still).

Their 23-inch B&W monitor in that same period had a sort of "works in a drawer" too, but it was everything except the power supply and flyback/HV on one board that slides out the front. I still have some of them in service here.

They're not real common, but, not a big ticket set, either. The big selling point was set acted up, you called the company, they sent a tech out with a replacement chassis to supposedly fix your problem They really weren't a high grade set. Mine was a 21" with A M radio, and, a four speed VM record changer in a drawer that also containned the speaker. Not good in the fidelity department.

The set you were referring to, probably still wasn't cheap. Priced at around $600.00.
The circuitry used in the mid-50's, B/W models shown, was generally a step above, the Zeniths and RCA's of the day. IIRC, many had four IF stages, keyed AGC, two stages of video output and push-pull audio output.
It seems to me, that they were order-out, like a car and assembled per the order.

Could be. One of the sets has a V-M changer, the other a Garrard....

Well, here's a bit of an update :)

During the trip from LA to NY, the end of the picture tube got necked on this S-C.....it didn't go to air, but the socket snapped off taking a couple of the wires almost flush. The cabinet was painted from blonde to a brown at some point, and the top veneer was severely damaged en route. But, since she's all there I decided that I'm gonna restore it anyway, and refurbish the cabinet somehow.

Funny how things work out, I have two extra picture tubes here...a 17AP4 and a 21YP4. Sure enough, the 21YP4 is what the S-C takes, and I just pulled a like-new RCA Silverama tube out of a Dumont that got parted out. Awesome :D

First pic is the two "brothers". Managed to repair the control label pretty well....it blew apart on the way here, but luckily the pieces were saved.

Second pic is the leviathan 27" Setchell Carlson. I wheeled my son Nick's Admiral 30A1 (sitting on a dolly, fresh from a cabinet refinishing) next to it so you can see the size difference. It's something that is hard to appreciate in a picture, especially with how low the tube sits in the cabinet, for a tube that size.

The great news is that the picture tube tests great! The 27RP4 is an RCA Silverama replacement that was installed in 1965 :)

Wow, you sure found some good TVs. If you find any literature with Setchell-Carlson Chassis 401(Made around 1965) would you let me know? I would be interested in buying it.

Lots on the 301, but nothing on a 401, unfortunately....

Wow, you sure found some good TVs. If you find any literature with Setchell-Carlson Chassis 401(Made around 1965) would you let me know? I would be interested in buying it.

I have a spare 401 factory schematic I can part with.

Listen to THIS!!!

Get this. I just got a brochure in the mail for the Setchell Carlson color sets off of ebay, primarily so I could see which chassis on my test jig is missing (it's the power chassis...). Says this:

"The exclusive Plug-In Chroma unit (which houses all of the color circuitry in the set) may be removed from chassis by your serviceman and TV will continue to perform in black and white!"

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT!!! I believe I am now a devotee of this company!!

Tim Great score. These sets probably priced themselves out of many markets due to the superior construction.

I got an S-C chassis 301, a 19" metal set from Bryan.

So I am interested in the 301 literature. Need any tubes?

Drop me an email if you think about it, and I'll go through all my 301 stuff tomorrow. Tubes? YES. I'm about out of 6AV6s and 6AG5s, among others :)

Wow that color jig is cool!

I now very much want a Setchell Carlson color set!

I have a S/C portable and a 23" monochrome classroom set from them, and direct monochrome video input on the classroom set makes for a spectacular picture.

I wonder if S/C made any tube color sets for classroom use or owners of early videotape recorders?

Got around to cleaning up the one Setchell Carlson, came out great so far :)

The labels behind the tuning knobs were just paper, and were crumbling like papyrus scrolls. I pieced them together from 3 sets, scanned the image, and made very acceptable duplicates. Turns out the left dial is an AM radio. The Garrard turntable on this one cleaned up nicely, runs well and maintains proper speed.

Weirdly though, S-C didn't label the controls on the front of the set so I had no idea what each one did, as the restoration hasn't begun on them yet. Bought a S-C owners manual on ebay for a couple bucks. Check this out, bass and treble controls! Only other tube set I know that has them are the Zenith High Fidelity rectangular colors of the 66-67 era, although I'm sure there were others. None that I know of this early though.

Another couple scans out of the manual....

Got around to cleaning up the one Setchell Carlson, came out great so far :)

The labels behind the tuning knobs were just paper, and were crumbling like papyrus scrolls. I pieced them together from 3 sets, scanned the image, and made very acceptable duplicates. Turns out the left dial is an AM radio. The Garrard turntable on this one cleaned up nicely, runs well and maintains proper speed.

Weirdly though, S-C didn't label the controls on the front of the set so I had no idea what each one did, as the restoration hasn't begun on them yet. Bought a S-C owners manual on ebay for a couple bucks. Check this out, bass and treble controls! Only other tube set I know that has them are the Zenith High Fidelity rectangular colors of the 66-67 era, although I'm sure there were others. None that I know of this early though.
I don't think the Garrard changer is original!
It appears to be a lot newer than the set.

Not sure. It's a Garrard 210. I guess S-C came with both Garrard and V-M changers. The other changer equipped S-C I have here has a V-M.

That looks really nice now.

The paper label thing was very common for them, and is IMO a little disappointing for such a prestigious company. They even used paper labels to identify the rear chassis controls on some of their later color sets. Of course the adhesive has long since dried and many of the labels become lost.

If you or anyone else needs a .jpg image that prints them properly sized on a standard sheet of paper, send me a message. The one I made isn't perfect, but it's pretty darn good.

What I need is a way to replicate these embossed foil inserts for my SC model 25 chassis knobs. Any ideas? :)

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq245/Kuehn/Setchell%20Carlson%20Model%20%202500/SetchellCarlsonKnobs_zps5befd5bc.jpg?t=1415210960

What I need is a way to replicate these embossed foil inserts for my SC model 25 chassis knobs. Any ideas? :)

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq245/Kuehn/Setchell%20Carlson%20Model%20%202500/SetchellCarlsonKnobs_zps5befd5bc.jpg?t=1415210960

"Aluminum Leaf" and some decent adhesive will do it. Polish the ever-loving s*** out of the surface first for a nice finish. (Get an acorn-shaped polishing wad on a dremel or similar device.)

Aluminum leaf is way easier to handle and apply than normal gold leaf. I'd recommend over-coating it with some good nail-lacquer afterwards to keep it from scratching off.

World's easiest television restoration! Total recap job in under three hours! This S-C has, of course, individual chassis for each section of the set....just open the hood, pull each chassis (which is smaller than a radio chassis), recap, and reinstall. The bonus is that there are NO multi-section filter cans in this set, they're all individual air core filter caps. Easy peezy! :)

This is showing the set at about 90V on power up. Amazingly I started getting a raster at about 85V! I had it up almost all the way, and the sound and snow started to come in, when the flyback was arcing around its circumference....something like you'd see on a Star Trek episode. Cut the voltage to 105V and it stopped, and never lost raster. Just needs to be re-sealed me thinks. Radio on this thing works well too, and the sound is amazing!

I take it that the purple plasma looking arc right around the donut means that it just needs to be resealed? It never lost raster, so the fly's still good. And if so, what do I seal it with, and how? I've heard RTV, but have never done it before.

That flyback issue makes me wonder if the HV is climbing well above speck? If it is then there are problems bigger than the fly it's self.

I don't think so. The picture only fills out horizontally and vertically at full voltage. Even at 105V the picture is somewhat shrunk. And it's shrunk in an exactly linear fashion.

Yeah, I would check the high voltage but if it is within spec, then a re-coat is probably in order.

I can't seem to find the YouTube video where Bob Andersen receives his order with the RTV133 (the nice, high voltage stuff) where I think he mentions how much he paid for the big caulking-gun sized tube (I've seen them for $65-70 but smaller tubes are available), but the one where he first opens it to do his first flyback re-coat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhK19ZU7LSE

Another one where he talks about re-coating a Predicta flyback in more detail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni97Sz2oupw

He mentions it at about 16:00 and then actually re-coats the flyback at about 31:00

It is a good idea to bake it out for a while first to remove any moisture before re-coating to avioid sealing it in.

Note that in the video he incorrectly states the electrical insulating property as 20kV/mil but it is actually 20kV/mm or 500V/mil per the datsheet:

http://www.momentive.com/Products/ShowTechnicalDataSheet.aspx?id=10299&Rev=3/25/2013%2012:32:31%20PM

Um....yeah...there has to be a less expensive alternative.

Not hard to tell where the flyback was arcing from, though.

Any of the electronic-type RTV silicones are somewhat pricey but RTV133 is only a couple dollars more than the "regular" electronic types like RTV103 and RTV162. The small tubes are only about $15 at my local electronics place.

Don't use the regular automotive-type RTVs, though. Many of them are corrosive and even the ones that are "sensor-safe" are still not designed with electrical insulating characteristics in mind and even though they are designed for sealing, they are slightly porous and hygroscopic (you can see this in action if you've ever seen how it absorbs engine fluids like coolant if you've ever torn into an engine) and you certainly don't want the goop to become even slightly conductive on your flyback!

Did you run across any schematics for the late 60s school TVs? I'm looking for that. My set is branded as a Wollensak model V22, but its nearly identical to the SC branded versions Ive seen. My set is almost working, but has a sync issue. Probably just a bad cap or two, but would be nice to have the service info for this or a similar set.

I can check, but I'd need a chassis number to go by. None of the schematics I have has pictures of what they are.

Any of the electronic-type RTV silicones are somewhat pricey but RTV133 is only a couple dollars more than the "regular" electronic types like RTV103 and RTV162. The small tubes are only about $15 at my local electronics place.

I've searched the heck out of the net and can't find anything at all on it, other than the $75 and up tubes.

Yeah, I don't think the specific RTV133 type comes in any container smaller than the caulking gun tube.

Packaging and Dispensing

RTV133 adhesive sealant is supplied ready to use in plastic caulking cartridges and in bulk containers.

http://www.momentive.com/Products/ShowTechnicalDataSheet.aspx?id=10299

Is there a T ,TF, or WF- some number on the side of that Fly?

I've searched the heck out of the net and can't find anything at all on it, other than the $75 and up tubes.
Yeah, I don't think the specific RTV133 type comes in any container smaller than the caulking gun tube.

Hmm, interesting. I thought for sure I had seen smaller tubes of RTV133 on the wall rack at the store but I guess not. I don't actually have one of the RTV133, so I can't say for sure.

I know that RTV103 also has the 20kV/mm voltage spec but it's a different formula, cures slower and doesn't have the flame retardent UL certification. More problematic, though, is it's not intended to be one of the really non-corrosive ones. Perhaps there is another one that has the good insulating properties and is a non-corrosive formula. I don't think the flamability test is much of a concern, I can't imagine a coating of RTV being any worse on an arc/short than the flybacks that are filled with wax. :) RTV isn't really very highly flamable but most aren't specifically flame retardent in a burning spread test.

Does MG Chemicals still sell "Corona Dope"? I've used that stuff before for insulating spots arcing of high voltages (built a huge Telsa coil once) though I dont think I still have any around. That's well known for flyback coating touchups.

I've heard of Corona Dope, and I see that it's still available. Think I'll give that a try first, thanks! :)

Is there a T ,TF, or WF- some number on the side of that Fly?

A little hard to make out, but looks like WF-14....

A little hard to make out, but looks like WF-14....

Fly 253 is suppose to sub. I have one you're welcome to, or I see there's one on ebay as well. This one has cracks in the HV insulation as most NOS do. So probably needs RTV added too. :sigh:

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq245/Kuehn/Setchell%20Carlson%20Flyback/SecthellCarlsonFly002_zps73364068.jpg?t=1422466153

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq245/Kuehn/Setchell%20Carlson%20Flyback/SecthellCarlsonFly003_zps0005e191.jpg?t=1422466151

Appreciate the offer! Let me try Corona Dope first. Might as well save a good part if I can :)

Agree. And who knows how a replacement will perform, possibly worse. :D

Got a jar of Super Corona Dope off ebay. It's a liquid epoxy, it's the consistency of clear nail polish and applies the same. Yeah, I've painted the wife's nails so I know this :smoke:

Anyway, it worked! The directions say for maximum insulation, use one coat and cure it at 120 degrees for 3 hours or something like that. I just let it cure at room temp for about 12 hours and it did the job :)

Full raster, full power, but no signal. Radio is nice and loud. But at this point it's all downhill from here!

Anyway, it worked! The directions say for maximum insulation, use one coat and cure it at 120 degrees for 3 hours or something like that. I just let it cure at room temp for about 12 hours and it did the job :)

Sweet! I'm glad it worked for you! :thmbsp:

You don't need the maximum electrical insulating properties for this application so drying at ambient conditions is sufficient but if you ever need maximum insulation for a higher voltage, baking it increases it's electrical insulating properties and you can use multiple layers, baking each time.

And she's almost done!!!

Turns out that someone had subbed some other tube in the tuner instead of a 6BQ7. Can't remember what it was. Luckily there was a stamp number on the tuner with the correct number, that clued me in. Controls were dirty as heck too. But she's got a really nice pic now, save a tiny bit of intermittent horizontal pull.

There are a couple .003 caps that I still need to replace (didn't have them in stock, as well as I think a 4 uF cap and two so-so 6AQ5s. Nowhere to go but up! Even bull riding is entertaining when it's on a set that you restored :D

Looking nice. Am I seeing things or is there a hole in the front center chassis, possibly missing a knob?

Right you are....I have the volume knob off in this pic. The horizontal and vertical are adjusted through small pots behind the volume knob, and I was tweaking them a bit.

Looks good, I have an almost identical set (21" 1955 model) makes me really wanna dig into it. Seller said it worked, but I want to replace the crumbling power cord and at least the main filter caps before I power mine up. Should be a a breeze to re-cap. Might try to fund my restoration by selling the old bumblebee caps on ebay... The guitar amp crowd seems to go for those....

I bet there's less than $30 worth of caps in this set, especially if you order them from Capacitor World like I do.

I have two more similar, one has the 27RP4 picture tube in it. I might start recapping the others while I assemble my next parts order.....

Next question, for those of you who may know the answer.....what is the difference between chassis of the same letter designation but a different series? For example, the TV unit D, series 10 from my one 21" set seems to be nearly identical to the D unit series 11 from my other 21" set. From a cursory look, a very minor circuit difference. How interchangeable are these units?

Cool stuff Tim.