View Full Version : Restoring an RCA CTC-10 "Wynnwood".


Eric H
09-04-2013, 03:10 PM
Scanning Craigslist this morning during break and spotted this RCA listed at $70.
I decided to take off early and go look at it before a Fishtanker found it.

Sadly the CRT has been necked, it was a 21CYP too I think based on the Orange stripe on the neck, I have a rebuilt Channel Master FJP I can put in it though.

It's complete except of one small knob, the CRT cup (probably broken when the CRT got necked) and a couple small pieces of brass trim on the legs.

The cabinet is a little rough but the good thing is it's black lacquer so touching it up is much easier than trying to match a particular shade of stain, also wood putty won't show through black paint.

After finding the tube necked and the cabinet being a bit rough I was considering leaving it, until I realized it was a remote set, I figured that made it worth the extra effort to restore. I also have two CTC10 chassis here for parts so getting it running won't be a problem.
I made an offer of $40 and he accepted it so now it's sitting in my van!

Here's the promo sheet from Ed Reitan's site.
http://www.novia.net/~ereitan/Gallery/images/CTC10/Wynnewood%20800.jpg

StellarTV
09-04-2013, 03:17 PM
If I owned this I'd be thinking "Steve Wynnewood" every time I glanced at it. :)

"Wireless Wizard"... I love it! Well worth $70 even sans CRT.

Security sealed circuits?

classicradios
09-04-2013, 03:45 PM
Nice! and a remote set! I had a ctc-10 remote but sold it last year in a weak moment for fast $$ Would have given it to you, Sorry.
Cool looking TV.

miniman82
09-04-2013, 05:17 PM
Looks sun baked, but not as bad as my CT-100 was!


http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=171714&d=1316877917

Username1
09-04-2013, 05:31 PM
So if that 21cyp22 that had the neck broke off was to have enough of the neck left as if it were going through a rebuilding process, could that tube be used for a rebuild test if it were for now sealed, and vacuumed to prevent any further damage from the air...?

After all, there will need to be some "test tubes" getting the rebuild process down right.... right....?

I think Technicolor has a tube cut off about the same point as this one.... 2 test tubes...?

Yah, they may not work bla bla bla but you gunna try a new process on a something you can't replace......?

miniman82
09-04-2013, 08:03 PM
Trouble with necked tubes is you don't know if it was under vacuum when it happened, if it was the air rushing in can literally blow the phosphor off the face of the tube and ruin it. No way to really tell without rebuilding it either, it's a real crap shoot. In short: there are better candidates out there with bad guns still under vacuum, better to try those first.

Eric H
09-04-2013, 08:27 PM
This CRT got necked hard too, no doubt sucked in glass debris against the shadow mask.

BigDavesTV
09-04-2013, 09:07 PM
Still a very NICE score, even with a terribly "necked" tube, really like the black lacquer cabinet style too, a plus that it's a remote set! Did you get the remote transmitter with the set? Do keep us informed of your progress on this set!

kx250rider
09-05-2013, 11:48 AM
Need the knob? No promises, but I might have one.

Charles

zenithfan1
09-05-2013, 01:10 PM
Necked CRT or not, GREAT score! That's gonna be gorgeous all fixed up! Gotta love the remote roundies! Always worth saving IMO...

Eric H
09-05-2013, 03:13 PM
Need the knob? No promises, but I might have one.

Charles

Hi Charles, I would love to get the knob for it, I want to get all the little bits and pieces so when I start to work on it I'll have everything.

Here's a picture of it, one of the four small knobs on the bottom and it's solid metal and brass colored.

Thanks!

kx250rider
09-06-2013, 11:53 AM
Hi Charles, I would love to get the knob for it, I want to get all the little bits and pieces so when I start to work on it I'll have everything.

Here's a picture of it, one of the four small knobs on the bottom and it's solid metal and brass colored.

Thanks!

I bet I either have that one, or I have a set of 4 matched similar. I don't know why, but RCA had many variations of those aux knobs; maybe due to different cabinet styles? About a year ago, I found a box of (mainly) RCA color knobs which I had put aside years ago, so I'll go check what I have. If you don't get a PM from me in the next day or so, please remind me :thmbsp: . I also have that remote, but it's beat-up. Not anxious to get rid of the remote, but would part with it if you don't have one at all.

Charles

Eric H
09-06-2013, 07:19 PM
Thanks Charles, I don't want to take your remote though.
There's on on eBay now for an outrageous price and there were a couple sold recently for much less so one will turn up eventually.

Jon A.
09-07-2013, 07:29 AM
I love the remotes for these things (duh).

holmesuser01
09-07-2013, 09:37 AM
My CTC-10C set was necked when I got it in late 1974. It used the CYP22. Found a FBP22 tube in a junk carcass. I didn't have any way to test the tube, or any of the tubes in the chassis, for that matter.... I was around 18...

I was rewarded with a good color picture from this unknown CRT. The tube lived until 1984, when I bought a brand new FBP tube from an Atlanta dealer that found it in their warehouse... they thought it was a returned dud, until I opened the box.

I'm so glad I fixed that set. It has been a reliable performer with most of its original capacitors all these years.

Eric H
09-08-2013, 09:45 PM
I started taking the set apart tonight to assess it's condition, also I wouldn't be able to get it out of the Van by myself if it was together.

Chassis is pretty clean, Flyback looks good, all the plastic gears in the remote system look good.
I will probably attempt a slow start before doing anything to it, I have a weak 21" tube I can use for testing.
Seller said he was told it worked by the people he bought it from so it probably got necked after that but it looks like it's been sitting a while, there was rust on the CRT gun.

CRT was toast, neck was really short, mask looked dirty so I just tossed it, possibility of it being rebuilt was nil, even if they get the rebuilding going at the ETF there are much better candidates out there.

Charlie
09-09-2013, 08:21 AM
Eric, that was a really good find... even though you still need to find a CRT. That cabinet would be breath taking with a fresh coat of black lacquer on it! :yes:

Eric H
09-09-2013, 10:59 AM
Hi Charlie, I have a new rebuilt CRT from the 80's sitting in a closet, it's not a CYP but it'll work.
I have to figure a way to remove the safety glass that got cracked when I bumped it against a metal shelf, I'm hoping it's the type that will soak off in water, otherwise it's going to be hard since it's not delaminated at all.

holmesuser01
09-09-2013, 12:44 PM
Amazing what TV guys have stuck in the closets!!

I've got an FJP22 buried in the closet, too. It was put in a set in the 1980's, run for a year, and then the power transformer got hit by lightning, along with the tuner and IF section. Unfortunately, it has begun to delaminate.

I need to keep it, though.

Eric H
09-09-2013, 09:38 PM
I dug out the new CRT tonight, I had to unbolt a cabinet and swing it out of the way to get the tube out, it's been trapped in there for quite a few years.
It's a Channel Master with a date stamp of 1984 I think, can't make out the last digit too well but I think that's what it was.

Good news, it still checks like new, as it should, also the area of the safety glass that is cracked has delaminated, I could probably pull that piece off if I wanted to.
It wasn't like that last time I saw it, probably at least 5-8 years ago, also it smells like deteriorating plastic so the PVA is probably going bad.

I put it in the second bathroom, I don't use that one so it won't be in the way, it has a shallow shower only tub, about 4 inches deep, or just right to soak the tube in for a while.
I added a little Clorox to keep it from getting rank and maybe it'll help break down the PVA, I also scraped off the clear tape they used to contain the PVA to allow the water to get to it. I noticed some fine bubbles around the edge so I hope it's water seeping into the PVA.

This will work out great since it's going in a set that didn't use a bonded tube, the screen color may be a bit different though.

Charlie
09-09-2013, 09:42 PM
:drool: Heart is racing! :drool:

Eric H
09-10-2013, 12:04 AM
The chassis is alive! I did a soft start with the Variac, disconnected the cap from the HV rectifier also because I don't have the Anode wire plugged in.
It has High Voltage and, after fiddling with the dirty tuner a bit, strong sound, I'm betting it would display a picture, or at least a raster if it had a CRT hooked up. Filter caps didn't get warm.

I found the fuse had been replaced with a single strand of Solder :screwy:, wonder how many amps that would handle, 10 at least and more likely 20, it's supposed to be 0.75 Amp.

zenithfan1
09-10-2013, 02:00 AM
EESH! on the "fuse" but Happy for the chassis being "alive"!! Gotta love this era of RCA! The 10 is in my favorites list :) Like the CTC9, they almost ALWAYS work! Hopefully my new 9 follows suit!
I can't wait to see a picture on this beautiful set Eric!

DaveWM
09-10-2013, 06:34 AM
Eric if you have the time leave that crt in the soak for a couple MONTHS, no kidding. I rushed one and had an implosion, not fun. it was the same deal the lens cracked a bit during the removal and my attempts to remove it just kept chipping more away. Then one morning going into the 9th inning is just imploded when I touched it.

If I had to do it all over again I would have left it sit for a year in the darn water if need be.

It was a rectangle, which I have done before. Maybe roundies are less implosion prone, just be sure to protect you eyes and wear protective clothing.

Seeing that crack lens brought back bad memories

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRJ0otqgmYs

The problem I had was once the lens was cracked I had a hard time getting a good edge to apply the wood wedges used to pry off the lens, it just kept cracking off into small pieces, right up to the good solid PVA, which makes it hard to dig out and have a space to work with under the lens.

Charlie
09-10-2013, 08:44 AM
I found the fuse had been replaced with a single strand of Solder :screwy:, wonder how many amps that would handle, 10 at least and more likely 20, it's supposed to be 0.75 Amp.

What?? No penny in there??

I found a blown fuse wrapped with a piece of foil once years ago. I suspect that was done by the set owner (sounds like something my grandfather would have done).

Kinda makes you wonder why they just didn't put a fuse in there. Seems like a service man would have had some fuses. But then, it's likely the average set owner wouldn't have solder in the kitchen junk drawer. What was going on to blow that fuse? It's only going to blow if something is wrong. Was someone getting tired of changing fuses? Did they simply not have one?

I guess the possibilities are endless. :sigh:

holmesuser01
09-10-2013, 01:14 PM
When I got my CTC-10, with the broken CRT, someone in the past had wrapped this fuse with foil.

When I got my replacement CRT installed, I replaced the fuse with the right part. That was 1975. It's never blown again.

marty59
09-10-2013, 07:39 PM
+1 on letting that tube soak for a good while. It seems to me that PVA used on newer/rebuilt tubes is stronger at bonding and may not allow seperation as quickly as the RCA's from the sixties does. I soaked a dud through two summer months so I could easily salvage the safety glass from it..

Eric H
09-10-2013, 08:38 PM
I plan on letting it soak as long as needed, no heat or mechanical force will be used because that's just too scary. I might poke some Toothpicks in the side to help separate it but nothing more heavy duty than that.

I'll pull it out of the tub this weekend and see if it's doing anything.

I read that Denatured Alcohol might dissolve PVA but I don't want to fill my bathtub with that, not to mention the cost. It might be possible to build a snug fitting pan or bag so it wouldn't take much liquid to bring it to the level of the glue layer, outdoors of course.

tvcollector
09-11-2013, 01:05 AM
That's a shame what happened to the original CRT on that, the chassis in working condition, some careless idiot necked it, Oh well.. I wonder if it was necked during transport, someone made a fast turn and the set fell on it's back.. I noticed alot of those 1980s roundie rebuilds seem to test like new.. I have three working roundies, one with the original CRT, on a brighter, and one with a Colorama Rebuilt from the mid 1970s, and one unknown rebuilt from the early 1980s.. The one rebuilt from the early 1980s test like brand new with the Beltron and even the voltage being well below five volts all needles stay past .8.. Speaking of Beltrons they have weaker results when testing compared to a B&K 467 and a Sencore CR70.. I've tested different tubes with three different Beltron units compared to the other testers and the beltrons give approx same weaker results..

Eric H
09-11-2013, 08:25 PM
Checked the tubes in the TV chassis tonight, there were nine bad ones, most had shorts, the 6AQ5 and the 6BK4 were weak, the one 6GH8 in the set checked good! The Sweep tubes (output and damper) checked OK but not as good as they could be so I'll replace them if I have spares.
There are a few tubes in the remote chassis I haven't checked yet because it's still in the cabinet in the garage.

marty59
09-11-2013, 08:54 PM
Whenever you test a 6BK4 tinted like that you know it's gonna' check bad. Looks like some original's there too, that's quite a service life!

Charlie
09-11-2013, 09:29 PM
That's quite a pile there. I don't think I've ever found more than four or five bad tubes in one set. Yes, that regulator is a little bit dark! :D

Eric H
09-11-2013, 09:46 PM
The 6BK4 is mostly just dirty, it is the original tube though with a 23/60 date code.

Einar72
09-11-2013, 11:43 PM
That 6EW6 has a Sylvania date code and type font on the type number!

holmesuser01
09-12-2013, 06:26 AM
Checked the tubes in the TV chassis tonight, there were nine bad ones, most had shorts, the 6AQ5 and the 6BK4 were weak, the one 6GH8 in the set checked good! The Sweep tubes (output and damper) checked OK but not as good as they could be so I'll replace them if I have spares.
There are a few tubes in the remote chassis I haven't checked yet because it's still in the cabinet in the garage.

That old 6BK4 will run forever. I've seen them almost black and they are still regulating.

6AQ5's running at 10-20% will still make sound.

I look forward to seeing a picture on this one. Mine is run about once a month, and looks decent on original caps, except for a couple of electrolytics. It will get a recap eventually.

Charlie
09-12-2013, 09:59 AM
6AQ5's running at 10-20% will still make sound.


Amen! That particular tube always seems to be bullet proof.... even in the vertical circuits.

Perhaps all that dirt on the regulator will provide some extra shielding! :D

Jon A.
09-14-2013, 11:11 PM
Trouble with necked tubes is you don't know if it was under vacuum when it happened, if it was the air rushing in can literally blow the phosphor off the face of the tube and ruin it.
As of seeing this post I finally know why an old TV I trash-picked in my youth had that nice little black spot in the middle of the screen.

Eric H
09-18-2013, 09:53 PM
I've been working on the cabinet, a little here, a little there.
The top was really a mess, the paint was cracked all over and there are dings and gouges.
I reflowed the Lacquer to smooth out some of the cracks then I sanded it.
The biggest issue is they didn't veneer the top since it was going to be painted anyway, this means it has a fairly coarse Plywood grain, that's what cracked the paint, the grain was poking through on the high spots. Stripping it completely would make it worse since the old paint is acting as grain filler right now.

This cabinet must have a hundred dings and gouges from careless handling, I will have to fill and smooth all of them before I paint it. A couple of the feet have some parts chipped off, I'm going to have to fill those areas and reshape them with a Dremel, at least that's the plan.
That's the best part about it being painted, none of the filler will show through.

I took off the doors and refinished one of them as a test, here's the result, I used Ace Hardware Black Lacquer paint and it is a really good match.

consoleguy67
09-19-2013, 09:27 AM
Nice!

Charlie
09-19-2013, 09:37 AM
Man, this is going to turn out to be awesome when you finish!

Eric H
09-20-2013, 12:41 AM
Here's what the cabinet looks like after the first round of filling in the dings, I have to let it dry thoroughly before I can sand it smooth.
I hate using wood filler, I think Bondo might work better but I don't have any to try and don't want to buy any to experiment with.

Anyway you can see it has a lot of boo boos, the ones on the edges are the most difficult to deal with, the amount of filler is so small it's hard to make it stay put, gotta put on extra and sand it down flush.


This poor set was not treated kindly over he years but at least it was kept dry so it's solid and there's no water damage to deal with.

radiomec
09-20-2013, 04:16 AM
:yes: A so beautiful tv set console deserves all this care for the restoring work! My best wishes!

Eric H
10-03-2013, 09:49 PM
After soaking since whenever I first posted about it the last piece of the safety screen finally came off.

I let it soak for a week before attempting to remove the glass, as it delaminated the already cracked safety glass would crack more as the tension on it changed, I dug out as much of the PVA from the edges as possible to allow water to seep in.
It seeped in all around the edge at first, then the cracked area would fall off, allowing water to seep in further.
I helped it along where i could by shoving a plastic putty knife in behind the PVA and watching it separate from the screen. Bigger and bigger parts would come loose until tonight the last bit came off with just a bit of wedging and tugging on the PVA.
It has a very light color phosphor and the safety glass was tinted, since the set uses a separate safety glass and it's tinted it should come out just about right.


Since the whole project of restoring this set hinged on having this new tube to use it would have been a catastrophe if it had broken, not to mention the possibility of getting injured. :no:

I've also been working on the cabinet and it's just about ready, another coat of paint on one side and the door and I'll call it done. It's not perfect but I have to draw the line on perfection somewhere or I'll never finish it.

It's going to be a five footer, looks good at five feet but if you get down on your knees and pick it apart there will be plenty of flaws to find.
A couple of the legs had large chunks missing where it had been dragged over something and chipped out, I just filled them in with wood putty and painted over it, looks ok at five feet. :yes:

I discovered it was missing a couple of flat brass strips from the front doors, I found a place online (Liney Machine) that sells brass in the right dimensions so I just have to see if they will sell the small quantity I need. It's also missing part of the brass trim that presses into the front of the leg assembly, I think I can just glue a flat strip of brass the same width in place and it'll look fine.

Charlie
10-03-2013, 10:09 PM
AWESOME!! Looking forward to seeing more as it happens! :thmbsp: :grnbounce:banana::grnbounce:banana::grnbounce :thmbsp:

radiomec
10-04-2013, 02:49 AM
Great work Eric! Did your 21FJP22 have a green or gray catharact under the safety glass?

Eric H
10-04-2013, 08:30 AM
Great work Eric! Did your 21FJP22 have a green or gray catharact under the safety glass?

Neither, I removed it because it was cracked.

DaveWM
10-04-2013, 10:45 AM
good news on getting that lens off. :thmbsp:

Eric H
10-05-2013, 09:11 PM
I finished painting the cabinet, I still need to put the doors back on and maybe knock a bit of the gloss off but basically I'm calling the cabinet done.

I installed the tube mounts and stuck in a rejuvenated 21FJ just in case something bad happened. Put the chassis in, filled up the tube sockets with replacements from a CTC11 chassis and fired it up.

The tuner is very touchy which made it hard to get an image and I have the yoke on upside down or wired backwards (doh!) but basically everything is working, full raster, good horizontal lock, vertical lock a little touchy, color and tint works, not sure about sound because I didn't install the audio output tube or a speaker but I suspect it will work also.

The purity and convergence is horrible of course, I don't even have the purity rings installed at this point but the picture is all there.
Once I get everything ready and put back together I'll install the new tube but for now I'll use this tired old junker just in case I knock the neck off or something.

sampson159
10-06-2013, 05:27 PM
looking good.full vertical!cant wait to see screen shots when done.cabinet looks great

Eric H
10-07-2013, 10:27 PM
Got the yoke wired correctly, did a real rough purity and convergence and got this.

The vertical won't sit still, the raster pops on and off and it's still really hard to tune but it looks promising.
This is with the weak CRT too.

Eric H
11-29-2013, 03:54 PM
I'm slowly getting all the pieces to make this set complete, scored a remote control unit from eBay, it's in great shape and came with the holder that hooks into the back.
As luck would have it, it's a CRK-3F which is the right one for the receiving unit which is a CTP-7B.

Any suggestions on where to find a sub for the oddball RCA VS-163 battery used in this?

tvcollector
11-29-2013, 04:39 PM
These things have been selling on Ebay for a pretty penny.. Even the remote unit design after this one has been selling for alot.

Charlie
11-29-2013, 06:02 PM
Eric, if the battery you need is 4.2 volts, you might look at the older style camera or flash batteries. I got a 4.5 volt flash battery off the shelf at Walmart years ago to put in a Hoffman transistor radio. It wasn't quite fat enough to stay in place, so I wrapped electric tape around the middle of it so it wouldn't bounce around inside the battery compartment. Worked like a charm.

Don't recall the battery number, and I am on the ship right now, so I cant go digging around to find out what I did. However, here is a photo of what I did...

http://www.videokarma.org/showpost.php?p=150207&postcount=6

Eric H
11-29-2013, 06:10 PM
Don't recall the battery number, and I am on the ship right now, so I cant go digging around to find out what I did. However, here is a photo of what I did...

http://www.videokarma.org/showpost.php?p=150207&postcount=6

Thanks Charlie, I will get one of those and try it.

Steve D.
11-30-2013, 12:08 PM
Eric,

Check out this Radio Shack offering: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3249777

May require some slight mod to the battery compartment.

-Steve D.

Charlie
11-30-2013, 12:15 PM
I think I had to do a slight mod in that radio... at the bottom... where I soldered a piece across the existing contact. You can just barely see it in the photo.

dieseljeep
11-30-2013, 01:47 PM
I think I had to do a slight mod in that radio... at the bottom... where I soldered a piece across the existing contact. You can just barely see it in the photo.

I don't remember the dimensions of the original battery. The battery holder in the inexpensive LED flashlites is 7/8" in diameter by 2&1/4 long. Maybe it will fit. A lot cheaper than the alternatives. :yes:

Eric H
11-30-2013, 03:44 PM
I ordered one of those batteries from Amazon, I don't want to go near Radio Shack this weekend, though I don't imagine they are swamped with customers. :D
Also doubt they would stock it.

Charlie
11-30-2013, 04:15 PM
Also doubt they would stock it.

Amen... seems like they don't carry anything we need anymore. I don't know why they still use the same name.

holmesuser01
11-30-2013, 06:45 PM
I think we are about to see the end of Radio Shack.

dtvmcdonald
11-30-2013, 07:10 PM
I agree that we are about to see the end of the radio shack!

Oh what memories!!! The greatest one occurred when they (Tandy)
were building their new headquarters building across from the courthouse
in Ft. Worth. I was watching, when suddenly a gas cylinder flew out of
the construction site, across two streets, and impaled itself
in the facade of the county jail. At one time mom was a receptionist
in the owner's inner sanctum area.

But I do use them all the time ... they are two blocks from my abode.
Today I bought a packet of assorted LEDs as I'm tired of replacing
pilot lamps in old radios. I've bought lots of connectors, cables,
odd batteries, etc. from them.

Eric H
12-23-2013, 09:54 PM
Replaced some caps in my CTC10 over the last few days, no filters but I replaced all the caps in the Vert Osc/Output section and now I have a stable vertical and fair linearity.

The problem I'm having is the picture is not very bright and the Green and Blue Drive controls seem to have no noticeable effect at all, shouldn't they change the gray scale significantly?

The Kine Bias and all three screens are turned up full blast, the CRT is a rejuvenated jug but is currently checking 90% on all three guns with good tracking, this same jug was in a Silvertone with a CTC11 chassis before this and it wasn't very bright there either so I'm wondering if it's actually bad despite how it tests?

it's also a 21FJP22 where it should be a 21CYP22 but I don't think that should make much difference.
I have a new CRT but I don't really want to install it until I'm done with the chassis just in case I knock the neck off of something.

Here's a picture but as usual with a digital camera it looks much brighter and bluer than it is in person.
I had a color pattern on it and the color works pretty well, seem like maybe the luminance is too low though.

DaveWM
12-24-2013, 06:55 AM
check the voltages at the CRT, all the pins and the HV as well. Generally brightness will be controlled by bias of the CRT and anode voltage.

a lot of times low brightness is caused by a weak video out tube. This happens on sets with directly coupled cathode (common on RCA color sets of that vintage). As the 12BH7 (or what ever the video out tube is) gets weak it conducts less and the plate voltage goes up. This in turn results in a higher voltage on the cathode of the CRT, which effectively cuts off the current flow in the CRT resulting in less brightness.

The grid and screen voltages all come into play as well so a voltage check at the CRT is the best place to start. HV will of course effect brightness as well, so that should be setup early on.

rcaman
12-24-2013, 08:29 AM
looks like a worn out crt. why would you do all that work and worry using a worn out and rejuvenated crt. i dont understand that.

miniman82
12-24-2013, 12:29 PM
Seems like the crt is to blame, but you won't know for sure till you check voltages at the socket. If the screen and background controls do what they are supposed to, I'd say you found the culprit.

Eric H
12-24-2013, 01:55 PM
That's the thing, the screens do what they should but the green and blue drive controls seem to do nothing, or perhaps it's just too dim to see.

The rejuved tube checks like new on my B&K 466 but it could be wrong, I'll check it again with the Beltron or the Sencore tonight and see what they say.

It might just be easiest to put the new CRT in and see what happens, I need to make sure the shadow mask is ok anyhow since it was shipped to me years ago, I don't see any debris inside so I'm pretty sure it's ok.

DaveWM
12-24-2013, 02:09 PM
if the voltages are off and the video out tube is good I would look around the service switch and the various power resistors there. Also the coils involved.

try adj the brightness while measuring the red cathode of the CRT, should be 360 and 280 from fully CCW to fully CW

Eric H
12-24-2013, 03:45 PM
Retested the CRT with the Beltron, with these results (below) I can't see the tube being the problem.

I found the voltages I measured a while back, Left is what it is, Right is what it should be, controls can affect the results of course.

1--
2-246 205
3-518 510
4-340 275
5-338 280
6-216 210
7-458 450
8-
9-
10-
11-512 510
12-222 195
13-338 280
14-

DaveWM
12-24-2013, 05:16 PM
G2
11-630v
7-680v
3-720v

G1=2,6,12 200v

K= 4,5,13 310v

is what I show as correct on the RCA filed service guide

Eric H
12-24-2013, 05:32 PM
I was using the Sams for mine, it does show the screen controls connected to the 640 volt Boost, I guess I need to check that and see what i have.

Eric H
12-24-2013, 05:36 PM
Okay, I have 680 volts on one end of the screen pots and I can get between 385 to 680 at the CRT pins 3, 7, 11 depending where the pots are set.

Eric H
12-24-2013, 07:08 PM
I moved the set to a safer location and swapped in the new CRT, while it did make a big improvement it still isn't right.

I have to put the tuner between channels to get a decent picture, if I put it on ch 3 and try to fine tune it I get a lot of distortion and interference, I also note that the brightness jumps up and down so I'm wondering if the AGC is causing a problem, I set it at a point where it gives the best picture, more and it gets to contrasty, less and the picture disappears.

With the color turned up the bars look pretty good, turn off the color and everything on the left disappears, I think it's just not bright enough or too contrasty to see.
It looks pretty good on a solid color like the DVD splash screen or the bright scene with Shirley Jones, but notice how dark objects have no detail at all.

At least I know my new 21FJ is good! I got the purity and convergence pretty decent for having spent all of a minute on it.

I guess I will continue to recap the chassis and see if it improves, it's full of Maroon drops and those do cause issues in B&W sets not too much older than this one, I bought all the Electrolytics for it also, dreading restuffing those but no choice since there's no room below to put them.

DaveWM
12-24-2013, 08:21 PM
super critical AGC was a bad agc filter cap on a set of mine. Scoping the agc will show this. a .1 cap is a filter. I had a LOT of bad maroon caps on my CTC-9

Eric H
12-28-2013, 01:37 AM
Finally some progress!

I finished replacing the film caps and restuffed one of the cans shown in the pictures below.

This had a major effect on the picture, it's no longer too dark and contrasty and the AGC control responds much more smoothly.

The Drive controls still have no effect though and to get acceptable brightness I have to have the Screen pots turned up to maximum.
In the service position however I have to turn the screens down or the three color lines are way too bright so perhaps there's something wrong in the circuit around the service switch?

Also there is a lot of herringbone in the picture and I can't get good picture and good color together at the same time, it no doubt needs an alignment since I swapped out the entire i.f. board and replaced the three video i.f. coils.

old_tv_nut
12-28-2013, 10:47 AM
My guess: Usual advice is to do alignment after everything else has been tried, but I think in this case since you replaced all the IF coils you definitely need the alignment. That might change the video level completely and fix some of your problems with picture levels not matching setup levels. Would also have a lot to do with sound and color problems.

DaveWM
12-28-2013, 11:01 AM
try subbing a new video out tube. also check the brightness pot and the resistors and coil around the service switch.

Eric H
01-17-2014, 06:45 PM
I finished recapping the set and made this quick video to show the set running, the color is actually a lot better on the set than it is in the video but the image is just too dark to be watchable in a normally lit room.
It looks okay in the video but the camera amplifies the light and it was taken in a dark room.

All the screen controls are full on as is the Kine Bias.
Is the 21FJP22 biased differently than the 21CYP22? I would think the CYP would be driven harder since it had less efficient Phosphors.

Other issues are getting the sound and image to work together and but I expect some alignment problems considering the coil swaps that were done, my main concern is why it's so dark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnFWQ8wnLHc

bandersen
01-17-2014, 10:46 PM
The Tick never looked so good :D Nice job :thmbsp:

kramden66
01-19-2014, 01:01 AM
I noticed with the admiral ctc-12 clone that if you tune the picture out to where you almost loose it completely it gets darker and the color level increases , if you yune back to normal its bright and if you turn back too far to where it just shows black and white it still is bright , so I go with the align the ifs then it might be ok , it might even be good to the point where you could use the rejuved crt if you care to.

mike

LADR
10-09-2017, 06:11 PM
Any more updates?

Eric H
10-09-2017, 10:47 PM
Any more updates?

No, it's just been sitting in the back bedroom, it works but not correctly, it just doesn't seem to have enough luminance.

Also I replaced the Chroma board and several of the crumbled coils on it so that needs an alignment also, something I'm not equipped to do.

Too many projects, not enough time or space. :sigh: