I seem to recall in an old electronics magazine talking about color tv, they said "a new color CRT should last about 3 years". Man, were they WRONG!! I know some tubes did fail in a short time and some were never very good, (23EGP22, 710AB22, Zenith tri-potentials and their 90's tubes), but the GREAT majority of them were VERY long-lived, it seems. I would say it is NOT unusual to get over 50K hours out of a good CRT. I still wonder why they said they would not last long??

Compare this to the modern stuff. LCD panels are NOT really made to last that long. The panel itself, or the T-con fail often, as do the backlights, either CCFL or LED. I do NOT expect a lot of "vintage " flat-panel sets to be around in say, 10 more years, compared to the still available roundie color sets we cherish.

Even the 21AXP22 metal tube, if it is not aired, often gives good emissions, even though they are now over 50 years old. Not too mention the BW tubes , which my experience has been about 75% of them I run across are still fine.

Guess it has a lot to do with the "then VS. now" attitude of manufacturing.

They still work because they were only used a year or so, then sat dormant for the next 45. It's not because they were designed better, they simply weren't used as much. I have the opposite experience, actually. My CTC-4 was run into the ground; it went through a pair of 21AXP22's from new, then a third was installed in 1976 but went to air when the set was finally laid to rest. I picked it up from the original owner's home in Indy, then waited for a good tube to turn up.

Most B&W sets I run across are absolutely beat. I recently got a Zenith 12" set with metal tube and while it wasn't aired, there was a brightener on it and it had 0 emission even after whacking it 3 times on max rejuve.

I've had my good and bad luck with CRTS.. Lately decent.. I just had a CTC10 Ushiped to me taking a chance on the CRT which is a metal 21CYP22.. Tested it and it slowly woke up, taking about 30+ mins for all three guns to come up.. Funny how green came up so slow that it didn't look like it was going to at all, come to find out it's the best one and the response is quicker than the others when first turning on the tester.. Red is sorta in the middle and the others are up past .8 on the Beltron tester.. With 7 volts the red goes up past .8 too..

Got a Zenith combo and all the guns are around .2 on the Beltron, but when I raise the voltage between 7 - 8 volts they all go past the .8.. May be a process on both tubes to where they need to run with a picture to fully wake up.. I've got an RCA CTC16 that needed a brightener due to a weak blue gun.. I noticed after months of using the set, that slowly I noticed alot of blue, took the tester and noticed the blue got to be way up on emissions and I took off the brightener... First roundie I got a few years ago is a Zenith.. It had a dead tube in it, almost zero emissions after rejuv..

i've had plenty of 1940's sets with bad CRT's, so many in fact I'll probably never find enough good tubes to be able to fix them all.

The good ones were probably either low hour sets or had the CRT replaced shortly before being take out of service.

There wasn't as much stuff to watch back then so they probably weren't turned on at Breakfast and turned off at Bedtime the way some people do nowadays.

New sets have hour counters built in, they usually will tell you the number of times the set has been cycled on and off too.

Even this 2007 LCD monitor I'm using on my PC has an backlight hour meter on it, it has a bit over 9000 hours right now.

I didn't think TVs in those days were used as much as TVs in modern world.. Seems like people constantly have there TVs on.. Television in the 40s-70s didn't have constant airtime and weren't as many channels or variety of shows and programming like today... Correct me if I'm wrong, but my assumption is people back then tuned into the evening news, or watch their soap in the day time, or even maybe a show at night and then the TV went off after viewing there 30min or hour long show.. Today it's like people turn there set on, walk away and do something else, then becomes background noise, and it's on for hours and hours.. So you would think sets in those days got much less hours than the modern world..

I can remember even in the early 70's the stations would sign off at Midnight or 1:00am or whatever, there were actually times when there was nothing but snow or a test pattern to watch in the wee hours!

It is rather amazing that most of these jugs have managed to hold vacuum for 50 or 60 years, with a few known exceptions, mostly metal/glass hybrids.

I can remember even in the early 70's the stations would sign off at Midnight or 1:00am or whatever...

I remember waking on Saturday mornings in the mid-late 70's waiting for the stations to come back on... so I could watch Scooby Doo, Josie and the Pussycats, Hong-Kong Phooey, Superfriends, and Looney Tunes!

I've had fairly good luck with CRTs... I think more than half the set's I've brought home have had good toobs.

1 30 am was when the stations would sign off back in the 60s.they would resume programming at 7 00 am.sets would be watched usually when the kids came home until 11-12 00.then they were turned off!with the advent of cable,sets were on 24-7.we started to see more crts die after cable.the oldest set i have here is a ctc9.the crt is excellent.instorage,i have a couple of older sets and the crts are just as good.i personally dont think they were used much.my zeniths from the 70s all have strong crts.

I remember waking on Saturday mornings in the mid-late 70's waiting for the stations to come back on... so I could watch Scooby Doo, Josie and the Pussycats, Hong-Kong Phooey, Superfriends, and Looney Tunes!

I've had fairly good luck with CRTs... I think more than half the set's I've brought home have had good toobs.

Yep I remember watching sign off, and then getting up early on the weekends (try not to wake up mom and dad) and wait for sign on. You had to plan your day around when the good shows were on. The only Opera I know is the barber of Seville, thanks to bugs.

I GUARANTEE that ANY decent CRT will outlast a light engine, from an LCD or DLP set!!

Note--a "decent CRT" means a good one, like a roundie, Hitachi tube from before 2000, a Zenith tube made before 1990 or such-- NOT that "Chinese junk" the last CRT sets had!!

Of course, our sample is somewhat skewed, because millions of TVs simply were simply sent to the dump when the CRT failed. We are seeing the survivors, many of which were likely relegated to some sort of low usage status before failure of the CRT.

jr

i've had my good and bad luck with crts.. Lately decent.. I just had a ctc10 ushiped to me taking a chance on the crt which is a metal 21cyp22.. Tested it and it slowly woke up, taking about 30+ mins for all three guns to come up.. Funny how green came up so slow that it didn't look like it was going to at all, come to find out it's the best one and the response is quicker than the others when first turning on the tester.. Red is sorta in the middle and the others are up past .8 on the beltron tester.. With 7 volts the red goes up past .8 too..

Got a zenith combo and all the guns are around .2 on the beltron, but when i raise the voltage between 7 - 8 volts they all go past the .8.. May be a process on both tubes to where they need to run with a picture to fully wake up.. I've got an rca ctc16 that needed a brightener due to a weak blue gun.. I noticed after months of using the set, that slowly i noticed alot of blue, took the tester and noticed the blue got to be way up on emissions and i took off the brightener... First roundie i got a few years ago is a zenith.. It had a dead tube in it, almost zero emissions after rejuv..

there was never a metal 21cyp22 made........

there was never a metal 21cyp22 made........

Oh, excuse me, 21CYP22A

That would be another of the 21CYs that was never metal. You must be thinking of 21AXP22.

I have a movie that was released in 2008, but set in 1976. Two working rectangular-screen TV sets were shown, both Zenith. No surprise there.

Nope, tube clearly stats 21CYP22A, and has the metal back over the base of the tube..

I believe you will find that the metal in question is not part of that tube. I have never R&R'd a 21CYP, but it appears that is nothing more that what holds the CRT in place.

If I am not mistaken, you lay that set on it's face, remove the nuts and clips in the four corners, and that metal ring will come right out of there... and the glass CRT will remain until you lift it out.

The 21CYP22 in one of my CTC-9's was replaced during the mid-60's... it now has a 21FBP22 in there. That same metal "base" you mention is what holds my 21FBP in there.

That is a metal shield, my CTC7 has that. the 21CYP is an all glass tube.

i have a ctc 9 with a 21cyp22.it is an all glass tube.the metal cover you speak of is a shield and not part of the crt.if this was the case,you would have the only metal 21cyp22 in history.glad you got the set all in one piece.post pics of progress

To this day i can't stand it when someone here or someone i know runs the tv for noise , i keep saying thats what a radio is for but it doesn't sink in.

as far as running a tv as long as i can remember the 61 or 62 era zenith 23" b&w console was run and run , either cartoons , movies , sports , that set was run until like 72 or so when it was replaced with a chromacolor II 19" hybrid , then that set was run and run , the 62 was then moved to a different room where in 85-87 era was tossed because the fly went but crt still strong , the chromeacolor was still going till 94 when it was tossed because it was given up on in 93 and a move to a new home , again crt still strong.
so it is possible that some sets were run even back in the day for as long as possible , this would explain the weak crt and multiple tubes in the set changed , a friend who was in the repair business said he saw more rca roundie crts go bad then zenith , perhaps the way they were made ?
the type of crt makes a difference ? both me and a friend found more 10bp4 crts to be good or useable compared to the 12lp4 crts , and 16gp4s are as bad as 12lp4s more bad then good so in the case of those tubes maybe it was just the design.

mike

That is a metal shield, my CTC7 has that. the 21CYP is an all glass tube.

So then, this does not hold the CRT in place? Just curious... as I have not removed a CYP yet.

I have a test jig that uses that method of CRT retaining (metal shield), on my CTC-7 there was a metal ring with rubber feet that mounted mid way up the bell and was secured with 4 legs to the bezel. In my case the problem with using a FJP in lieu of a CYP was the anode button of a CYP is much closer to the face. The ring mount on my setup happened to be about 1" away from the anode, so you need a really good tight fitting HV cap to keep it from arcing.

So then, this does not hold the CRT in place? Just curious... as I have not removed a CYP yet.

I think it does actually, can't remember for sure if it holds the CRT or is just there to shield it.

I wasn't aware of an actual tube made out of metal.. I thought metal back like this people were referring to this setup as a metal tube..

I wasn't aware of an actual tube made out of metal.. I thought metal back like this people were referring to this setup as a metal tube..

Yes, there are actual metal cone CRT's. The entire cone section is metal. Ya don't want to put your hands in there by it... it will HURT! :D

See here...

http://evilfurnaceman.tripod.com/id16.html

I've seen pictures of something like this before and thought maybe it was some kind of coat that's a metal color or something.. Never paid much mind to it...

That is a metal shield held in place by 4 of the 8 bolts holding the CRT to the faceplate. Plain and simple.
Phil

That is a metal shield held in place by 4 of the 8 bolts holding the CRT to the faceplate. Plain and simple.
Phil

This has been already said... Thanks for the reminder...

I see plenty of excellent-emission CRTs from the 40s to the 90s. I think there could be some truth to the idea that lots of them are bad, in that people would keep repairing TVs until the tube went bad; then shove it in the garage or basement. But if someone just decided to upgrade to a bigger set, or a newer one because they were tech nuts or just wanted to spend $, the old set would be put in a back room and seldom (but SOMETIMES) fired up; keeping the tube good. How do I come up with this? : I seldom see a bad CRT in a TV with other major problems. I usually find the tube bad in a set which probably had a good working chassis 40 years ago, then the caps dried out since. If the flyback is shot, the CRT is usually fine....

Charles

If only these old TVs could talk! I bet that many would have interesting stories about how they survived. I always *try* to get the background story behind each set that I collect, but actually find very few with a known history.

jr

I think on average jugs from the late 60's til late 80's
are lasting a long time. B&W's from abt 1960 on also.
New displays are super complex & delicate. CRTs are
simple & have a long history of improvements.
If you make a CRT to last an average of 10 yrs many
will have to last 20yrs and more to accomplish it.
When a set got replaced it was usually 8 yrs old
& still had a good jug, it got patched up & put
in another room. When it crapped out again it ofter
went into the cellar or garage.
So the TV sees 8 yrs hard use, 5 yrs low use then
sits for years idle. Some do hard time. I had a
top-o-line M-line Zenith 19" about 1981. I sold it a
few yrs later. He ran it til mid 90's & gave it away.
Abt 3 yrs ago it got junked still working fine. I know
it isnt a rare thing............

73 Zeno:smoke:

Like was said, use em for noise! I have many customers that say they can't sleep unless there is a TV on in their bedroom. Years ago I had a couple that had a big box projo that stayed on 24 hours a day. They couldn't believe they needed CRT's replaced every year because the phosphor was dead.

My story on roundie CRT's is the Zenith 25MC33 chassis combo I grew up with. TV was "on" from about 9 AM to Midnight 5 days most weeks, and every other Saturday. Sunday, not so much during the day , but we never missed Wild Kingdom, Disney and whatever western was on. 1st CRT lasted from 1965 to 1970. Second lasted 1970 to 71 then 73 to 74 with a new Hi Lite tube (2 years total). Was replaced again in 1976 with a worn rejuv'd 21FJP22 from and old RCA set by me in High School. The constant on condition was not noise. One of us 4 was watching at all times, between evening shows, sports, soaps, game and talk shows.

The chassis still ran after that but with lots of snapping and popping. Very lightly used after that till about 1981. So 5 years and 2 years each on 2 tubes with average 12 hours daily use, combined with other minor chassis repairs.

Compare with a Sampo 19" CRT set from a discount store purchased in 1982 or 83, that lasted until 2003 with only a jungle IC replacement 1 year after purchase. Also, my parents had another cheap set, a Portland brand 19" "off the truck" in a parking lot that ran about 15 years, with no repairs. The cost of both was about the same as the first CRT replacement in the Zenith (other chassis repairs had to be done at the same time). Both of those sets developed focus problems late in their lives and were discarded. Both sets ran 10-20 hours a day, 7 days a week. I'd say that's fair service, and a big improvement over the roundie, much as I like the old Zeniths.

...

Up till 3 months ago, I worked on flat-panels tv sets EVERY day. I Mainly did the "board repairs" and was the "high level tech" to come to when the "kids" were unable to "fix" a set, by routine board replacement.

I saw a LOT of bad panels. More bad LCD panels than plasma sets, but plasma sets were NOT reliable at all, and often needed multiple boards, such as the Y-buffers AND sustains, to fix. Many of the panels we saw bad, had bad backlights, with CCFL or LED strings out. Some just would not "work right", and a common problem was "panel separation" in where the front electrode connecting the panel to the T-con or main board, would separate from the front of the panel, ruining it. This was NOT "soldered on" in the normal sense, but ultrasonically soldered, and we had no way to repair this. This usually happened after 6 months to a year of use or so.

SO...NO the flat-panels are NOT NEARLY as reliable as the classic Solid-state sets, such as the Zenith CC1 flat chassis SS or CCII or the RCA modular XL-100 series from 1971-77. And the picture tubes , in general, lasted as long then, as about 3-4 flat panels will today.

...

Well...Companies even back then were all about cutting costs to the bone. You gotta know that for every engineer who was talented & proud of his work, there was a beady-eyed bastard Cost Accountant who was all over him all the time to cut this corner, leave that IF stage out, make the coating/rare earths on the picture tube a few microns less thick... Sure the resulting mess WORKED, but for how long, & at what price to reliability ? The round CRTs prolly didn't see too much of this, but I'll bet you a chicken dinner that the rectangular tubes had been "Doctored", "Cheapened", "Played with".....Sometimes this monkeying around w/things DID result in improvements, but most of the time it was strictly a cost saving measure... And, when color TV really did take off in the late Sixties/early Seventies, mfgers were under IMMENSE pressure to crank out as many as possible-The Dealers can fix 'em in the field...And we can't forget our old friends in the Gummint...Maybe a certain phosphor or process was THE way to REALLY make a good CRT, but the phosphor in question made Yellow-Bellied Sap Suckers' Tail Feathers fall off...Gasp ! Horrors ! Can't have THAT, so that chemical was forever banished..

Kind of like "lead free solder" it works SO well....NOT!! LF or "RoHS compliant "solder is one of the big problems with modern electronics. It does NOT hold up NEARLY as well as the "good stuff" and even tends to grow "dendrites" and short out other connections on boards, connectors, panels, etc. We did NOT use this where I worked.


Or those "wonderful" CCFL bulbs that "last SO long"....sometimes...not often though.

Or the new "substitute" grease in MCdonalds fries...thy do NOT have that "magical taste" anymore....

But remember..."it's for the CHILRDEN" after all...should make you feel good....

Well...Companies even back then were all about cutting costs to the bone. You gotta know that for every engineer who was talented & proud of his work, there was a beady-eyed bastard Cost Accountant who was all over him all the time to cut this corner, leave that IF stage out, make the coating/rare earths on the picture tube a few microns less thick... Sure the resulting mess WORKED, but for how long, & at what price to reliability ? The round CRTs prolly didn't see too much of this, but I'll bet you a chicken dinner that the rectangular tubes had been "Doctored", "Cheapened", "Played with".....Sometimes this monkeying around w/things DID result in improvements, but most of the time it was strictly a cost saving measure... And, when color TV really did take off in the late Sixties/early Seventies, mfgers were under IMMENSE pressure to crank out as many as possible-The Dealers can fix 'em in the field...And we can't forget our old friends in the Gummint...Maybe a certain phosphor or process was THE way to REALLY make a good CRT, but the phosphor in question made Yellow-Bellied Sap Suckers' Tail Feathers fall off...Gasp ! Horrors ! Can't have THAT, so that chemical was forever banished..

JUst looking at the rect. tubes tells one that they had been "played with"-- the whole gun is about HALF the size as on a roundie....so MUCH less cathode area to produce the picture...and it DID show. A good roundie looks "different" in a GOOD way, not really explainable, than ANY rect. tube!!

And let's not forget the "mini necks", those tubes , from the late '80's till the end of the tube era.NO doubt a cost-cutting measure. The necks were even smaller than the normal color tubes of the time--and they did not last nearly as long. They did NOT take rejuv. very well, either....Philco attempted this in the early '50's, with the "neoscope" a very early mini-neck BW tube--evidently it did not work well...but the concept was revived for color with the Zenith trri--potentials in the mid-70's and taken farther by the 1980's...NONE of them last too long!!

However...some of the rect. tubes, like the Zenith CC tubes were made to LAST, as we know. SO were the HItachi tubes made in the late '80s to the early 2000's. RCA used them....and they last almost as long as a CC tube.

OTOH, THe Zenith LG tubes, from about 90 or so till 98 or so...is an example of "cutting" gone WAAAYYYY too far. 3-4 good years was the BEST one could likely expect from one!!

Wonder what a "Mil-Spec" roundy color set be like ?!?

...

Wonder what a "Mil-Spec" roundy color set be like ?!?


SUch tubes do exist. They have been spoken abut here. something like "19gvp22" or so. I think they are ALL R.E. and maybe even matrix. I expect the cathodes would be VERY heavily evaporated and thick. Not sure if they would have that "Magic color" of a 21FB or 21AX but they would likely last as long as a CCII tube!! Probably cost the taxpayers over a grand each new, too.

Wonder what a "Mil-Spec" roundy color set be like ?!?

I would expect them to be quite beefy compared to typical consumer set tubes. Out here on the ship, we still have a few CRT's in service. There's one up on the bridge... it runs 24/7 for the past ten years... never gets turned off. At night, the brightness is turned down enough to just barely see the screen in the dark. It's got some burn-in on the screen. The CRT's and flat panels used here are rated for marine applications... and must be albe to deal with the vibrations of the vessel and the pounding the vessel experiences in rough weather.

Last year, they replaced the radars. The new monitors installed are 25" flat panels. The captain was telling me about the price tag on those displays... 8 grand a piece! Damn... for a 25" screen! I suspect it has to do with being built sturdier and able to withstand the environment of a ship.

The TV sets in our rooms are typical 30-40 inch Samsungs. They start looking questionable after just a couple of years. The PC's we use have cheapie monitors... they don't last long, either.