I found this, and I wanted to know if it is a Chromacolor or a Chromacolor II? Speaking of that what would be the difference between the two?

Thanks!

Link : http://drummondville.kijiji.ca/c-acheter-et-vendre-art-objets-a-collectionner-Television-sur-pied-Zenith-circa-1950-W0QQAdIdZ364245484

Well it's definitely not circa 1950 I know that.. :P

Not sure what kind of Chromacolor it is though.

Haha, that was the easy part! I really hope it's a CCII but I really don't know the difference between the two, but if I had to guess I suppose the CC is less desirable than the CCII. Now i'd like to know why! :)

Upon some further inspection, it looks like it's a Chromacolor II.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/Evilweredragon/cciiq_zpsefa7fada.jpg~original

I think.

EDIT: Then again, here's a standard Chromacolor, and it's chassis' knobs line up with the above posting.

http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=160351

That's a 19" 4-tube hybrid chromacolor from around '72-'73. Chromacolor II's consisted of the last-run horizontal chassis solid state sets from '74 and all of the vertical chassis solid state sets. Tube sets and the early solid state sets were simply known as "Chromacolor".

That's a 19" 4-tube hybrid chromacolor from around '72-'73. Chromacolor II's consisted of the last-run horizontal chassis solid state sets from '74 and all of the vertical chassis solid state sets. Tube sets and the early solid state sets were simply known as "Chromacolor".

What's your take on it? Worth saving? what are the major issue with it?

I guess what i'm asking is : is it as good as a CCII?

Those had very good pictures and it's certainly worth owning. The only tubes in this set are for the horizontal output, horizontal osc, damper, and vertical output. The rest of the set, including the HV rectifier, is solid state. The most common failures are the HV tripler and focus divider. Also, the damper tube socket would sometimes arc and burn. Otherwise, they only gave the usual troubles that other sets gave.

Those had very good pictures and it's certainly worth owning. The only tubes in this set are for the horizontal output, horizontal osc, damper, and vertical output. The rest of the set, including the HV rectifier, is solid state. The most common failures are the HV tripler and focus divider. Also, the damper tube socket would sometimes arc and burn. Otherwise, they only gave the usual troubles that other sets gave.

Great,thanks! I have to admit, I have next to none experience in dealing with tube set and this bother me, I would have much prefer a SS CCII. But I'm am curious, so i'll get it anyway.

I'd grab that in a heartbeat. IMO those 4 tube hybrids put out a better picture than a CC2. Out of all the sets I have, my 4 tube hybrid puts out the best picture.
That set should be "plug n play". You shouldn't have to recap anything.

hybrid sets are some of the best.this zenith,the sylvania d16 chassis and even the magnavox hybrids were great sets.the ushered in the modern era of television.grab this one!

IIRC model D4034P 4 tube hybrid. All features except remote.
Like system 3 CC2 was a feature list I think it had to be SS to
be called a CC2 but that was 40 yrs ago ! The E- line sets
dumped the pedistal & went with consolettes, a maple
& a pecan one CC2.
Worth saving not super rare, they sold fairly well.
Very easy to deal with & must have made a million of
the hybrid between B-line & F-line so parts are there.

73 Zeno:smoke:

Great,thanks! I have to admit, I have next to none experience in dealing with tube set and this bother me, I would have much prefer a SS CCII. But I'm am curious, so i'll get it anyway.
Dont worry about the tubes, most of the set is like the flat
SS chassis. Besides the flat SS only went in 25" sets, if you
want a 19" your stuck with the hybrid.

73 Zeno:smoke:

That's a 4-tube hybrid just like my chassis 19CC19. Mine has the 6LF6 horizontal output..superb CRTs in these sets. Mine had a great picture as found, needed purity adjustment and tuner cleaning only. from 1972.

Thanks guys, I'm going to pick it up tomorrow, i'll let you know when I get it and I'll post some pictures :)

By the way, any of you guys have any vacuum tube in case those in the set are bad? I'm asking because there is e few listing for the 6LF6 on ebay right now and they are kind of expensive.

thanks again!

That's a 19" 4-tube hybrid chromacolor from around '72-'73. Chromacolor II's consisted of the last-run horizontal chassis solid state sets from '74 and all of the vertical chassis solid state sets. Tube sets and the early solid state sets were simply known as "Chromacolor".

Agreed...

Charles

Thanks guys, I'm going to pick it up tomorrow, i'll let you know when I get it and I'll post some pictures :)

By the way, any of you guys have any vacuum tube in case those in the set are bad? I'm asking because there is e few listing for the 6LF6 on ebay right now and they are kind of expensive.

thanks again!
IIRC a 6LX6 subs but also expensive. Most sweep tubes are
being bought up by hams using them for finals in home brew
transmitters. A parts set would be nice but most hybrids
are series string & use 20LF6 / 26LX6. If the set is good &
you want to keep it & want backup parts look for following OEM
parts.

78-1888-01 damper tube socket
800-616 (IIRC) focus divider kit
63-9115 vert size control

73 Zeno:smoke:

Am I correct in that the original tripler and focus divider in these sets can be replaced with an NTE526 tripler that contains a built-in focus divider?

Am I correct in that the original tripler and focus divider in these sets can be replaced with an NTE526 tripler that contains a built-in focus divider?
Probably but but I never did it. IIRC some B-line hybrids didnt
have a divider. A lot of variations in the HV on them.
Remember the red ladder shaped tripler & the huge disc cap
that arced ? Wish I could remember the mod when the cap
went, I think you had to update the tripler ? I kept a few of
the caps for testing, Zenith said NEVER replace one.

73 Zeno:smoke:

replace tripler and hi divide with nte526 tripler unit.a nte556 will actually work in this application too

So I'm back from getting the Chromacolor, and you where right it is a hybrid! The television does "work" and the tube is good, I guess... But it's not the beautifull butterfly I though it would be!

Cosmeticly , the television is great! And it does have a really good sound :yes: But on startup I do not get snow, only a blank raster. and once the dvd is hooked up to it, The picture is full of color bars. The image also has some imperfection on both sides.

What do you guys think?

The black on the right hand side is likely due to a horizontal output defect (weak HOT, damper tube) or a bad filter capacitor in the power supply. When you turn the color control down, do you have a normal B&W picture?

If I remember correctly, the black and white picture had a little color in it.

IIRC, there is a slide switch on the chassis marked "normal" and "align". If the switch is dirty or in the "align" position, it think it will cause a symptom similar to yours.

Looks like it will come out nice !

1) the minor width problem may be the HV control has a
bad spot, common, used to stock it. Just turn it a little & it will pop in.
2) we did change a lot of filter cans on these. It can be changed
without a chassis pull but you have to be very careful.
3) degauss thermistor 63-10710 IIRC prob fell apart.
4) turn off chromatic switch & turn color all the way down.
if you still have color bars / blotches you need to
do purity & crt set-up.
5) lack of snow most likely IF transistor but could be something else.

Let us know how it goes.

73 Zeno:smoke:

Looks like it will come out nice !

1) the minor width problem may be the HV control has a
bad spot, common, used to stock it. Just turn it a little & it will pop in.
2) we did change a lot of filter cans on these. It can be changed
without a chassis pull but you have to be very careful.
3) degauss thermistor 63-10710 IIRC prob fell apart.
4) turn off chromatic switch & turn color all the way down.
if you still have color bars / blotches you need to
do purity & crt set-up.
5) lack of snow most likely IF transistor but could be something else.

Let us know how it goes.

73 Zeno:smoke:

Ok here goes :
1) the HV , is that High voltage control?
2) The filter cap is the big metal can on the right back of the chassi right?
3) I guess I need a service manual! haha anyone as one for the 19DC12 chassi?
4) By the way, would you consider the tube still good? it is on the low side...

thanks!

crt will be fine.its actually not on the low side.its in the green.even a tired zenith crt will produce a fine picture.this set will be great when you iron out a few bugs.horizontal issue is probably just a touch of the control.the color should pop in when you get it centered.damper or horizontal output could be suspect also.no big deal.excellent set and we sold plenty of these hybrids in the shop days.the picture was so good that customers would pass over the newer solid state sets for these.never saw one that didnt make a bright,sharp,clear picture.very good find!

Thanks guys, I really appreciate your tips!I guess I wanted so badly this set to be in pristine condition that I was was dissapointed when it wasn't haha. I now have 8 TV , and the only one that doesn't really have an issue is my 1984 system 3, and event that one has a little crt burn in it.

Time to get my insulated tools and start the work on those! :)

I was reading thru your symptoms upon start-up.
I would do the simple stuff first, before tearing in and doing all of the cap stuff (I doubt they're bad)
I would:
1) Clean the tuner
2) with your DVD player ( or whatever input source you use) tune it in with the AFC off.
Hopefully it's just a few dirty controls. The only thing that had me concerned was the blank raster/no snow issue upon start-up, which is probably just an adjustment to the AGC control.
As for the slight "pull"... probably a weak horizontal output or damper. You'll know for sure if it fills out after it runs for awhile. And ya... if one of those tubes were weak enough, it could effect color sync, which... just like that slight "pull" would clear up after it's on awhile.
The focus looks great on it, so obviously no tripler/focus divider issue......

Ok here goes :
1) the HV , is that High voltage control?
2) The filter cap is the big metal can on the right back of the chassi right?
3) I guess I need a service manual! haha anyone as one for the 19DC12 chassi?
4) By the way, would you consider the tube still good? it is on the low side...

thanks!
1) yes the one above the HV label. IIRC it uses a strange tool
you can use something else carefully if so.
2) yes but dont change it unless you have to or its leaking puss.
3) maybe, I do sell SAMS & prob have it. If you need I will PM you.
Can help you along without it if minor probs.
4) yes it looks pretty good. Just remember it wont be as brite
as a newer set & may not take high contrast. Watch in
subdued lighting, thats normal to do in those days.
BTW if you need to pull the chassis or tuners you will need an
extra long 1/4' driver. Excelite used to make them.
The wood comes off first DONT forget to pull the 3 side knobs.
Then if need be to pull everything out of the cabinet......
IIRC 4 screws on bottom, 4 tuner screws & knobs,
3 screws along top edge, front controls 1 on bottom & 1
from rear. Remember where ground straps went. Comes out tube & all.

73 Zeno:smoke::smoke:

So, I finally decided to have a go a this little gem.

- First I tried to rock the HV switch a little CC and CCW, it didn't do a thing.
- I played with the AGC delay pot to see if the colors or the snow would come back. No effect.
- When I engage the chromatic switch , I loose the image completely.
-When I wiggle the tuner a bit, I loose the picture, then it kicks back in...seems shaky.
-I have no color, and with the color switch all the way ccw I have a black and white picture with color in it. (see picture 1)

Now, I haven't cleaned the tuner yet, but I wanted to ask you guys an updated opinion first.

Thanks!

If with the color control up you still get the same bars as in post 20, then what you need to do to fix it is look for the 3.58Mhz Chroma reference transformer, and adjust it's slug until it synchs...At that point the color bars should go away and you should have a color picture, though it might still look a bit funny if the front tint/hue control is mis-adjusted.

Interesting, color in the pic with the color control turned all the way down when your CRT checks reasonably good. I have been wondering if that was a surefire indicator of a bad CRT because I just got a 1983 Toshiba Blackstripe set that shows a lot of color with that simple test. I don't want to dump it because the person who gave it to me said it was hard for her to give it away because it was her dad's TV. Also, it seems to be a less common model. I might end up stealing a CRT from one that's more common. It has a few other minor ills and could use a Retrobrite treatment as well.

You have a badly misconverged image -the blue lateral is off a bit, but red and green seem converged, giving the yellow lines. The black stuff at the base of the tube is the rtv rubber zenith used to hold the tubes in place for shipping. Dust away the salts and she'll be fine.

Zeno can chime in on this one -I've not worked a Zenith hybrid in a while, as dura module sets are plentiful in my world.

Cheers,

Good to see it on the bench.
Minor width problem most likely H. output tube.
damper & H. osc tubes also possable and filter can
( in front of tripler ).
The CRT looks very strong. Blue lateral is the white
part on the neck. Has 2 rings with tabs for purity &
the twist magnet is the blue lat. Give that a turn to put
the blue on the yellow. Clean tuner & hopefully the
snow comes back.
Chromatic switch. Note the color, tint, bright & contrast
knobs have holes. There is a second set of controls for the
chromatic. With it on ( orange ) the regular controls dont
work you use the screwdriver to adj it. When off the outside
controls work.
Color problem.
1) clean normal/align switch on top of chassis between the
color module. If that dont work......
2)remove the 2 color modules ( 9-27 & 9-?? ) if the IC's
are still plug in remove them & clean sockets. Be sure to note
the markings to put them back in right. Spray the module
contacts also. If that dont work......
3) put on a color picture. Put norm/align switch in align.
Adjust the APC control on the 9-27 board for the FEWEST bars
rolling through picture. Return to normal.
That will keep you busy for a while !!

73 Zeno:smoke:

Good news!

After rocking the normal/align switch a little (I didn't even cleaned it) color came back!

I fiddled a bit with the blue lateral to adjust convergence, and voilà! Convergence still need a bit of tinkering, but i'll get to that later.

Now I need to find the focus pot. Looked around for it and I could not locate it. Haha

All in all, I am amazed that the TV came back so easily, you guys where right, those are very reliables TV...and the tube is still very strong!

here are a few pictures, the first is for comparaison to earlier B&W picture, the others are before/after blue lateral magnet adjustment.

And as always : Thanks!

Edit : I just found the focus pot. For some reason it's labeled as "vert. centering" on the chassis, that why I couldn't locate it.

If with the color control up you still get the same bars as in post 20, then what you need to do to fix it is look for the 3.58Mhz Chroma reference transformer, and adjust it's slug until it synchs...At that point the color bars should go away and you should have a color picture, though it might still look a bit funny if the front tint/hue control is mis-adjusted.

Now that the color is back and I don't have the lines anymore, I probably don't have to go through this precedure, but I am curious : what does a chroma transformer do? does it sync chroma and luma to get a color picture?

It has no effect on monochrome synch. The monochrome horizontal synch pulses contain a sample of the carrier used to detect and decode the color signal. That sample is called the burst, it is gated and used to synch the 3.58MHz reference osc. Tube era sets and some SS sets have an adjustable transformer used to bring the frequency of that osc. close enough for the osc. to synch to the burst. The phase difference between that osc. and the chroma signal determines hue of the color, and the amplitude of the chroma determines how saturated that color is. If the osc. is off in phase people will have purple faces, and if it is off in frequency you will get horizontal bars of RGB, or a constant tinted monochrome image.

Rapid progress ! Nice work. You cant beat these sets to
learn & experiment with.
If the color is lined up properly you should be able
to change channels WITHOUT the color coming on with
color bars before locking in. If it dont deal with it later.
Next is the minor width problem. Be SHURE you are actually
turning the HV reg control, see if it goes from stop to stop.
Most had an odd adjustment that you had to jam a tool in to
get it to move, not just the usual screwdriver adjustment.
HV controls with a bad spot give exactly the minor width
problem.
The filter can is a quick test but the sides are strait so I think
thats OK. After that scare up some KNOWN good ( not tube tested )
tubes. When the width is fixed its time for a complete
CRT set up.

73 Zeno:smoke:

Rapid progress ! Nice work. You cant beat these sets to
learn & experiment with.
If the color is lined up properly you should be able
to change channels WITHOUT the color coming on with
color bars before locking in. If it dont deal with it later.
Next is the minor width problem. Be SHURE you are actually
turning the HV reg control, see if it goes from stop to stop.
Most had an odd adjustment that you had to jam a tool in to
get it to move, not just the usual screwdriver adjustment.
HV controls with a bad spot give exactly the minor width
problem.
The filter can is a quick test but the sides are strait so I think
thats OK. After that scare up some KNOWN good ( not tube tested )
tubes. When the width is fixed its time for a complete
CRT set up.

73 Zeno:smoke:

Well, there is a slot in the HV reg control and I can see it turning and I hear HV changing in the TV while I do it. Now I don't want to overdrive the TV as I don't have an HV probe, but I rocked it 1/8 to 1/4 turn (cc and ccw) just to see if it does something and it didn't.

As for the tubes, I should get an 6LF6 and the 3 others as well?

Wow that's a beautiful picture! I'm glad you got it working, I like the console tabletop look the cabinet has. I don't think I have ever seen one in person.

Bravo, nice work. Good to see progress on this one.

Well, there is a slot in the HV reg control and I can see it turning and I hear HV changing in the TV while I do it. Now I don't want to overdrive the TV as I don't have an HV probe, but I rocked it 1/8 to 1/4 turn (cc and ccw) just to see if it does something and it didn't.

As for the tubes, I should get an 6LF6 and the 3 others as well?
The 6LF6 will be expensive but most likely. The other tubes have
no other uses so should be much less. It depends on if you
want to possably wait & pay another shipping charge etc.

73 Zeno:smoke:

I found this, and I wanted to know if it is a Chromacolor or a Chromacolor II? Speaking of that what would be the difference between the two?

Thanks!

Link : http://drummondville.kijiji.ca/c-acheter-et-vendre-art-objets-a-collectionner-Television-sur-pied-Zenith-circa-1950-W0QQAdIdZ364245484

Drummonville is near me but I live on the other side od the St-Laurence river..:thmbsp: However, the link is dead. I mean ..non disponible

Drummonville is near me but I live on the other side od the St-Laurence river..:thmbsp: However, the link is dead. I mean ..non disponible

Of course the link is dead, this thread is 1.5 years old Haha.

Sorry , you where closer to it, but I was faster ;)

Of course the link is dead, this thread is 1.5 years old Haha.

Sorry , you where closer to it, but I was faster ;)

No problem :D :thmbsp:

Wow that's a beautiful picture! I'm glad you got it working, I like the console tabletop look the cabinet has. I don't think I have ever seen one in person.


Had ONE_-back in about this time of 1988. It even had a built-in stand. Found it "shopping' on a SNOWY night.


Got it running (can't remember what was wrong...maybe NOTHING..) and sold it--back then, $ 50 or so was decent gas/food money for me.

Wow that's a beautiful picture! I'm glad you got it working, I like the console tabletop look the cabinet has. I don't think I have ever seen one in person.

It's not quite a "tabletop console". Like RCA2000 said , it's a pedestal set. Here's a complete picture of it. I prefer the look of the tv without the stand myself, but i'm not going to throw it away because of it historic "value" :)

magnavox made a pedestal set also.this is a very nice,rare set.hybrid zeniths produced the very best picture.we had several hybrid 19 inch sets and they sold quickly because of the fine picture.newer,solid state sets were passed by because of the picture quality.zeniths blew them away.i would love to have this set!

So, a bit of an update. I went ahead and ordered the 4 tubes that where in the set : 6LF6 (that I substitued for an 6LX6, because the 6LF6 price was stratospheric) , 6U10, 6DT3 and 6JA5. As soon as I replaced them I noticed 2 immediate effects :
- My light pull on the right disappeared!
- Convergence went A-wall...

So after a bit of trying this trying that I arrived at a pretty good result with the convergence.

Now 2 problems I have :

Firstly, those lines at the top of the screen are still there ,and they don't go away after the sets warms up. (see picture 2). They seem to fade in, and then fade out...

Secondly, and that is a very minor problem, color seems to have trouble syncing when I power up the set. I have to rotate the VHF knob ever so slightly and they come back.

One minor observation, is it possible that Delta gun crt, even very good one like the chromacolor, are not capable of producing a picture as sharp as an inline tube? I think the sharpness on my chromacolor is OK, but it can't hold a candle to my cheap 1986 hitachi.

Thanks!

fade in fade out lines, macro vision copy protection.

good convergence/good CRT/should make a nice sharp pic. May not be able to get convergence perfect on edges, but still should be sharp where it is converged. Does the focus adj take you in and out of focus, or does it run out of range (best focus is achieved with the pot turned to fully CW or CCW)?

I had a recent CC that needed a new focus divider to get the range under control to where I could focus precisely.

I happen to KNOW....a good chromacolor set can outdo about ANY in-line tube...PERIOD !!

Chromacolor II zenith sets had about the BEST overall color picture. About the only thing better in overall color picture (but NOT brightness of course) is a Zenith ROUNDIE

fade in fade out lines, macro vision copy protection.


It looks more like vertical under scan allowing the Closed Captioning data to be visible to me. Can you play a program that is not letter boxed and look for under scan?

First off the set is probably a "Super Chromacolor" an
improved chromacolor.
chromacolor II sets were the next year sets with upright
solid state chassii. ( 19EC45 etc).

Lines are from the CC or other "new" add ons to the signal.
They were not around when the set was new, 99.99% was
off air or cable then.

By nature small screens look sharper. With a perfect set-up &
CRT your set will give a very detailed picture for its time. BUT they
can not run at the brightness & contrast of in-lines without
loss of some pix quality. The set also has a sharpness control on
the rear. Often the little white knob goes missing but its the
common size.

The color I assume is "barber poling" before locking in.
First clean the NORMAL -ALIGN switch on top of chassis.
Then put into ALIGN. On the 9-27 module there are 2 controls
ACC & APC. Adjust the control so you get the least amount of bars
or the tint slowly changes. Go back to NORMAL & try it.
If it still gives trouble you can pull the 9-27 module & clean
the IC & socket carefully. Not the way it came out & use an insulated
screwdriver to adjust !! Also spray the module contacts.

73 Zeno:smoke:

OOPS
Adjust the APC control only.

Can you tell me which one is the APC?

Also, I took a picture of the geometry of the screen, I can't seem to be able to ajust the picture to get it to fill the whole screen without stretching/deforming it.

As for the sharpness, maybe I went too far in saying that it can't hold a candle to my cheap Hitachi, I don't want to upset you guys :D But I feel it is a bit lacking. As for the focus pot, it is almost maxed out. Just before the last 1/16 turn adjustment the focus seem to get worst...so I guess the range is still there...somewhat, but for all intent and purpose it is almost 100% full ccw.

thanks!

You definitely have vertical under-scan at the top and bottom. You need to readjust the vertical height and linearity (and possibly centering).

as long as you can get to a point where the focus gets best and then continuing to turn gets bad again then you have a usable range. but as you noted you are almost out of range. I opted to replace the focus divider on mine to get it back more near the center. Sometimes the pot itself becomes an issue with dirty or worn spots making careful adjustment a problem. You can swap the ends around on the pot to get to a better unworn out part if you want to try that.

Dont remember witch is APC but.
The 9-27 almost always has a shield over it with 2
holes & a sticker showing the controls. Also look
on the layout.
If you dont find them I can dig up tomorrow.

Vert size pots ( 63-9115 ) always got bad spots.
We bought strips of them but you can also usually
clean them.

73 Zeno:smoke:

as long as you can get to a point where the focus gets best and then continuing to turn gets bad again then you have a usable range. but as you noted you are almost out of range. I opted to replace the focus divider on mine to get it back more near the center. Sometimes the pot itself becomes an issue with dirty or worn spots making careful adjustment a problem. You can swap the ends around on the pot to get to a better unworn out part if you want to try that.

I've got a 1971 Zenith 'more than 4' tube hybrid. The focus divider was drifty on mine and the pot was hitting the stop before getting proper results. I figured I could not find a divider and the circuit was simple, so for the first year or two I just added 4.7 Meg (IIRC) resistors (each time optimal focus went outside control range) until there were about three in series with the focus divider. It has been stable with sharp focus in range for a few years now, and it gets a lot of use.

...

That works if you're out of range at the high end of the focus pot. I added a series resistor to the high side of the focus pots in both of my GE 10JA sets to get the focus centered. Interestingly, they were both off by the same amount, and haven't shown any drift yet.

If you're at the low end, you have no choice but to replace the focus divider since you can't add a negative resistor.

that was the prob on mine, could not go low enough, even shorting the 4.7 meg would not get me there.

I have a plastic cabinet tabletop 19DC12 and my focus pot is in the "vert centering" apron hole as well. I thought it was an upgrade mod.

I also had a 19DC11 set that was otherwise identical and had the divider resistor like Tom's earlier set. The focus control was mounted on a fiberglass board at the fly and the control had a long shaft that stuck out the back.

As I recall, the focus was better on the 19DC11 but I gave it to Bryan Gadow in one our frequent set-swaps.

I have a plastic cabinet tabletop 19DC12 and my focus pot is in the "vert centering" apron hole as well. I thought it was an upgrade mod.

I also had a 19DC11 set that was otherwise identical and had the divider resistor like Tom's earlier set. The focus control was mounted on a fiberglass board at the fly and the control had a long shaft that stuck out the back.

As I recall, the focus was better on the 19DC11 but I gave it to Bryan Gadow in one our frequent set-swaps.

IIRC the ones with the glass board all had a big disc cap that would arc.
The caps were pulled & a tripler kit subbed. The original tripler was
a weird looking thing like a ladder & was red. Not too many
came that way. There were a lot of varieties in the hybrids HV.
I only did one FBT on one & it was a big kit & included a tripler
IIRC.

73 Zeno:smoke:

Ok, now I located the 9-27 board. Before I went to adjust the APC control, I went and change the DVD in my player to put back my terminator DVD that has the THX pattern...and that was the last time my TV was able to lock in on the signal that was feed via the RF modulator. Now not only the color won't lock in , but the whole picture won't (see picture).

That occured while the TV was on, and I didn't even touch the TV between the dvd swap...it was ok...then it went bongo.

I tried a different RF modulator, tried to lock the signal by turning the VHF tuner...nada.

At least I have great colors now :P

Looks like a complete loss of horizontal sync. Perhaps that tube you subbed in was not suitable.

Looks like a complete loss of horizontal sync. Perhaps that tube you subbed in was not suitable.

Possible, but I replaced every tube with same number ones and it worked fine for a couple hours... I will try to sub some of the old ones to see.

Its the hoz hold on rear, white knob. If its at the end
you can pull back the the sleeve to move it more.
Change channels back & forth when setting so it
syncs right in. Its a coil so it can turn many times.
The lines will get father apart as you go in the right
direction.
Only tube that can do it is the 6U10.
If the horz is near falling out of sync it can cause
color sync probs also.

73 Zeno:smoke:

IIRC the ones with the glass board all had a big disc cap that would arc.
The caps were pulled & a tripler kit subbed. The original tripler was
a weird looking thing like a ladder & was red. Not too many
came that way. There were a lot of varieties in the hybrids HV.
I only did one FBT on one & it was a big kit & included a tripler
IIRC.

73 Zeno:smoke:

I've seen that trippler and I understand that it was a Selenium stack and German made. I omly saw one Zenith that used it. :scratch2:

Possible, but I replaced every tube with same number ones and it worked fine for a couple hours... I will try to sub some of the old ones to see.
Oh, I thought you subbed a different tube due to high cost.

So, finally it only was the horizontal Hold that made the fuzzy picture, everything works now. I redid convergence, and now it got a good picture! I am still not 100% blown away by it as much as I thought I would be, but its definitly is a drastic improvement from where I began.

Now, there are the small issues of : Jail bar, and of course getting rid of that pesky macrovision buzz and color lines! Anyone knows a good macrovision filter? I bet this could get handy with pretty much all the sets made before 1980 or something...?

Oh, I thought you subbed a different tube due to high cost.

I did, but the subs where also marked as alternative right in the back cover of the TV. By the way, what would be the effect of replacing an 6LX6 by a 6LF6 other than it would have cost me twice as much haha?

I did, but the subs where also marked as alternative right in the back cover of the TV. By the way, what would be the effect of replacing an 6LX6 by a 6LF6 other than it would have cost me twice as much haha?
The sub makes no difference. IIRC all Zenith came with a
6LX6 or 26LX6 on series sets. Only other sets I recall were
Motorola hybrids came 6LF6 or 20LF6. Others probably used it.
I dont remember on Motorola but Zenith can sub 20LF6 for
26LX6.

Price difference probably due to most hoz outputs are used by
hams for amplifiers One tube probably has specs that are better
so more demand.

73 Zeno:smoke:

Good morning everyone,

So in the light of the thread about my newly aquired flatchassis, I decided to go back to my hybrid and redo convergence with colors off to see if I could improove things a bit. What bothers me with my hybrid is the same thing that bothers me with my flatchassis : Both got great colors, but I think that the picture is washed out, and color is blooming even if convergence is accetable. So this time I did a side by side comparaison shot with my daily watcher (1986 Hitachi console).

Here's are the results. Picture 1/2 crosshatch pattern colors off/on on my hybrid, picture 3 and 4 are comparaison shot hybrid/Hitachi. You will notice how much sharper the text is on the Hitachi. I did ajust the focus on the hybrid more than once to make sure it was spot on.

At this point, I wonder if it has anything to do with bad convergence at all...could it be chroma bandpass as Electronic M said in the flatchassis thread?

That blush of color in the lower multi-burst pattern shows the color circuits reacting to what should be a monochrome signal. It would be interesting to know the frequency at which this is occurring. It could be alignment issues or it could be a design limitation of the set lacking a comb/notch filter.

That blush of color in the lower multi-burst pattern shows the color circuits reacting to what should be a monochrome signal. It would be interesting to know the frequency at which this is occurring. It could be alignment issues or it could be a design limitation of the set lacking a comb/notch filter.

A notch filter is only applied to luma, never to chroma (it would eliminate the color signal from the color circuits!). So, you are seeing the expected effect with a notch filter set, with luma in the color bandpass showing as flickering color.The short shutter time used for the picture captures one phase of the cross color instead of averaging it out, making it look worse.

In both shots (color on and color off), the black level (don't know if it's labeled "brightness" on this set) is set too low. This makes the darker gray scale chips all look black, and may have prompted the chroma to be turned up too high to bring up the red and blue bars, also increasing the visibility of the cross color.

A notch filter is only applied to luma, never to chroma (it would eliminate the color signal from the color circuits!). So, you are seeing the expected effect with a notch filter set, with luma in the color bandpass showing as flickering color.The short shutter time used for the picture captures one phase of the cross color instead of averaging it out, making it look worse.

In both shots (color on and color off), the black level (don't know if it's labeled "brightness" on this set) is set too low. This makes the darker gray scale chips all look black, and may have prompted the chroma to be turned up too high to bring up the red and blue bars, also increasing the visibility of the cross color.

I tried, various setup of brightness/contrast , and it is true that higher contrast (lower brightness) seems to help a bit, but the worst offender here is the "color" ajusting. I can get the color where it's not blooming that much anymore...but the picture gets very dull (not much colors).

Could it be that, a mix of cheap RF modulation and macrovision fed to a television that wasn't desing to receive and process that kind of signal could "degrade" the picture like that? How do you guys with roundy go about to get the very best image on your sets?

Oh and BTW, I am still not getting any snow when the TV receive no signal, only a white uniform picture. Could it give a clue to what's wrong?

Thanks! :scratch2:

That blush of color in the lower multi-burst pattern shows the color circuits reacting to what should be a monochrome signal. It would be interesting to know the frequency at which this is occurring. It could be alignment issues or it could be a design limitation of the set lacking a comb/notch filter.

I'd like to help you with that, but it could be a while until I get my hand on the required equipment to do so.

I tried, various setup of brightness/contrast , and it is true that higher contrast (lower brightness) seems to help a bit, but the worst offender here is the "color" ajusting. I can get the color where it's not blooming that much anymore...but the picture gets very dull (not much colors).

Could it be that, a mix of cheap RF modulation and macrovision fed to a television that wasn't desing to receive and process that kind of signal could "degrade" the picture like that? How do you guys with roundy go about to get the very best image on your sets?

Oh and BTW, I am still not getting any snow when the TV receive no signal, only a white uniform picture. Could it give a clue to what's wrong?

Thanks! :scratch2:

Lack of snow with no signal is completely separate from your color issues - I'm only going to talk about color setup:

You say that lower brightness "seems to help" but from your pictures the "brightness" (or "black level," not "contrast" or "picture") is too low already. You should see uniform steps in the gray scale with only the darkest one being black. Secondly, your complaints about color being washed out tell me that you are looking subjectively for uncalibrated overly saturated color. To get (approximately) calibrated color, you first need to get the gray scale correct, then view the color bars through a blue filter and adjust hue (tint) and saturation (color) to get all the blue-containing colors to have the same amount of blue (looking the same through the blue filter) as shown on this page:
http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/portfolio/using-the-spears-munsil-calibration-filter/#prettyPhoto

My guess from your comments is that you will not like this accurate setup, but at least it gives you a known starting point for adjusting towards your preference.

A few things.
Looking at you pix if its accurate its a little purple.
Try adding just a little green.
The pattern looks pretty good. The bottom bar is for
resolution & looks normal. If the set had a comb filter
the blue wouldnt be as bad & you would see more
lines to the right of it ( the high freqs for detail ).
The CRT looks just a tad weak. You cant always go
by the checker for that. I never harmed anything
with the clean & balance so maybe try that.
The Hitachi probably has a comb filter, most mid to high
end sets had them by the mid 80's. Thats much of the
reason for better small white lettering.

BTW Did we cover the HV control on this yet ??

73 Zeno

I'd like to help you with that, but it could be a while until I get my hand on the required equipment to do so.
You don't need equipment (although some equipment can do that)...Just a DVD with a multiburst pattern that bothers to label the frequency of the burst bars on the pattern. If that pattern just had some labels it would tell me a lot about what is happening.

You don't need equipment (although some equipment can do that)...Just a DVD with a multiburst pattern that bothers to label the frequency of the burst bars on the pattern. If that pattern just had some labels it would tell me a lot about what is happening.

No need for labels or further tests - it is at the color subcarrier frequency, just as it should be. You can also see the notch in the luma response in the monochrome picture.

Lack of snow with no signal is completely separate from your color issues - I'm only going to talk about color setup:

You say that lower brightness "seems to help" but from your pictures the "brightness" (or "black level," not "contrast" or "picture") is too low already. You should see uniform steps in the gray scale with only the darkest one being black. Secondly, your complaints about color being washed out tell me that you are looking subjectively for uncalibrated overly saturated color. To get (approximately) calibrated color, you first need to get the gray scale correct, then view the color bars through a blue filter and adjust hue (tint) and saturation (color) to get all the blue-containing colors to have the same amount of blue (looking the same through the blue filter) as shown on this page:
http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/portfolio/using-the-spears-munsil-calibration-filter/#prettyPhoto

My guess from your comments is that you will not like this accurate setup, but at least it gives you a known starting point for adjusting towards your preference.

You are right, I do adjust everything by eye, but do not worry I know oversaturation when I see it. I adjust everything to get the most natural looking picture (NOT what you can see in department store where every TV are on torch mode with cartoonish colors). That being said, the reference picture you saw where at the low brightness and contrast setting for convergence adjustement, and are not the setting I use to "test" the TV normaly.

A few things.
Looking at you pix if its accurate its a little purple.
Try adding just a little green.
The pattern looks pretty good. The bottom bar is for
resolution & looks normal. If the set had a comb filter
the blue wouldnt be as bad & you would see more
lines to the right of it ( the high freqs for detail ).
The CRT looks just a tad weak. You cant always go
by the checker for that. I never harmed anything
with the clean & balance so maybe try that.
The Hitachi probably has a comb filter, most mid to high
end sets had them by the mid 80's. Thats much of the
reason for better small white lettering.

BTW Did we cover the HV control on this yet ??

73 Zeno

We did, but I don't have a high voltage probe as of now. What could be the symptomes of a badly adjusted HV?

You are right, I do adjust everything by eye, but do not worry I know oversaturation when I see it. I adjust everything to get the most natural looking picture (NOT what you can see in department store where every TV are on torch mode with cartoonish colors). That being said, the reference picture you saw where at the low brightness and contrast setting for convergence adjustement, and are not the setting I use to "test" the TV normaly.

Aha - thanks for clarifying.

If the set has a HV adjust control they got bad spots.
IIRC it was on the right side of chassis & covered with
a metal cover.
If bad the width on right side would come in about 1/2 inch & there
is usually a bar in the pix at the side. Moving the control
a tiny bit makes it pop in.

73 Zeno:smoke: