http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/16960956_rca-621-ts-television-walnut-finish-7-inch-screen

This 621, at the Elli Buk auction is the ONLY example that I have ever seen that deviates from the others. If you notice it has the "free-form" style pre-war decal on the front (all others have the post-war smaller, more block-style one). Also, a member on ARF noted that the rear badge serial number area deviates from the typical ones.
I think this was a VERY early production set. It could also stir up the controversy that the set, or some of them, were produced before the war. You have to admit, with the pre-war decal it really does look even more like a pre-war Vassos set. It's one of the more unique 621's I've seen as of yet.

Well now you've seen two because mine does too :D
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8397/8680013955_b1f7013a32_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8680013955/) http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8249/8547712658_4a94268c2c_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8547712658/)

Well now you've seen two because mine does too :D
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8397/8680013955_b1f7013a32_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8680013955/) http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8249/8547712658_4a94268c2c_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8547712658/)

Mine has the older logo, as well. I'll report the serial number later. :thmbsp:

It just went for $425 at the auction.

Interesting guys! I guess I must have overlooked the decal in the past. From a distance and at a quick glance you can be fooled. The other interesting thing is that the serial number on the auction set is written different too (?)
I feel certain those were the earlist runs of the 621 - maybe prewar cabinets?:scratch2:
I can't believe how low the final bid was. Somebody stole that set!

I did a google image search and they all seemed to have the smaller block-style font so I believe you are correct that it is unusual.

The other 621 today went for $475. All the sets have gone for much less than I expected. Then again you have to pay nearly 30% in fees and taxes and deal with pickup/shipping.

No controversy, the 13-channel format this uses was not the standard before the war. Also, the miniature tubes inside - 6J6, 6AG5, 6AU6, 6AL5, etc. - were new in 1940, so the design phase would have had to be rapid and thorough to have any sets in production before the 1942 consumer-goods cutoff. What we have here is a batch of left-over decals used on early production, IMHO, but I do like the old script much better!

No controversy, the 13-channel format this uses was not the standard before the war. Also, the miniature tubes inside - 6J6, 6AG5, 6AU6, 6AL5, etc. - were new in 1940, so the design phase would have had to be rapid and thorough to have any sets in production before the 1942 consumer-goods cutoff. What we have here is a batch of left-over decals used on early production, IMHO, but I do like the old script much better!
I like the old script better too. It would have been awesome if RCA had put the "Television" decal on the next speaker bar down like the pre-war sets!
The debate with the 621 has always been that, although the chassis is definatley post-war, the cabinet might be a pre-war creation by, of course, John Vassos. It still does not make sense that the totally modern (for the time) flagship set, the 630, was created, yet one low-production small-screen set, the 621, was commisioned by Vassos to be designed in the out-dated pre-war deco styling (?) I definatley believe the 621 has pre-war roots of some kind.

Maybe they had the 621 7-incher in the works when production ceased. Vassos' design work may have already been commissioned, and maybe they already had it on-hand when all resources were diverted to wartime production. I've also seen an artist-modified photo of a TT-5 with a 10" screen added on ETF...

Maybe they had the 621 7-incher in the works when production ceased. Vassos' design work may have already been commissioned, and maybe they already had it on-hand when all resources were diverted to wartime production. I've also seen an artist-modified photo of a TT-5 with a 10" screen added on ETF...
I agree. I think that theory makes sense. I heard the 621 cabinet dimensions wouldn't have worked for a pre-war chassis, but then RCA might already have had plans for chassis revisions early on.
The 630TS was the progression of the TRK-12 and the 621, a progression of the TT5.

Good grief, they're giving them away! Maybe I'll bid on some tomorrow, I'd have to have C&F ship though so that would suck.

I really think they hurt themselves by combining sets, often a very desirable one with something common that would have to be shipped as well, or as mentioned the two Doghouses together.

Someone on A.R.F. said Vassos designed the 8TS30 also, not sure if it's true but that model does have a more pre-war look than the 630 does. I actually think the 630 is a bit homely.

I agree, Eric, the 630 has an odd look to it, but many clones look even worse!

I'd be happy with just the cabinet and knobs; I have a camera monitor with a rumored-good 7DP4 inside, plus a couple of extra KCS-24 chassis that could be massaged to work (with a horizontal/HV section added)...

Someone on A.R.F. said Vassos designed the 8TS30 also, not sure if it's true but that model does have a more pre-war look than the 630 does. I actually think the 630 is a bit homely.
I highly doubt the 8TS30 was a Vassos design although I do agree that it does have a more deco look than the 630. Vassos style was the pre-war streamlined look that fell out of fashion after the war. Not much was heard of Vassos in radio/TV design at that point. That's why I absolutely believe the 621 was pre-war design.
The 630 looks better in person, by the way, especially a nice original example. The big plate glass front along with the ripply framed notty grille cloth panels make it look very primitive. It's a great set to watch too. They work amazingly well!

The miniature tubes were introduced in 1940, I did not know that. What company (or companies) first produced or designed them? If I was an RCA engineer, using upcoming smaller (and lower-priced?) tubes would be an excellent plan for a more-affordable TV set. This all may have been hashed out in the past, but speculation is still fun. Are there ANY 630s with the script-type decal known?

Miniature tubes were developed by RCA and the very first few, a complement of 1-volt filament tubes for battery portables, were introduced in 1939. Advertising for the first RCA radio to use them referred to the tubes as "tynitrons".

The 621TS could not have been designed before the war. As David mentioned the first miniature tubes were the 1 volt variety for use in the "pocket" radios like the BP10. Many of the tubes used in the 621TS were not even available until after the war.

6J6 - 9/42
6AG5 - 9/42
6AL5 - 8/44
6BA6 - 10/45
6BE6 - 10/45
6AT6 - 10/46

The 621TS could not have been designed before the war. As David mentioned the first miniature tubes were the 1 volt variety for use in the "pocket" radios like the BP10. Many of the tubes used in the 621TS were not even available until after the war.

6J6 - 9/42
6AG5 - 9/42
6AL5 - 8/44
6BA6 - 10/45
6BE6 - 10/45
6AT6 - 10/46

I see your point and agree, but what is your theory on the fact that RCA, with their well designed and modern (for the time) flagship 630 set, would make a small number of small screen sets with a fairly complex old pre-war design? Next to 630 it's a total departure in the design "theme" of the pre-war line. There's isn't another year before or after that RCA diverted so obviously in their styling theme on their a line of radios or TV's.

Mine has the older logo, as well. I'll report the serial number later. :thmbsp:

The serial nunber on my set is C015379. The earliest original tube code date is 7-13. The CRT was replaced in 1953, according to the code date.
It's an RCA replacement. :thmbsp:

I see your point and agree, but what is your theory on the fact that RCA, with their well designed and modern (for the time) flagship 630 set, would make a small number of small screen sets with a fairly complex old pre-war design? Next to 630 it's a total departure in the design "theme" of the pre-war line. There's isn't another year before or after that RCA diverted so obviously in their styling theme on their a line of radios or TV's.

The only post-war set the resembled the pre-war design was the GE sets.
The only miniture tube in the set was a 6AU6 in the tuner. It had all those 6AC7's in it
It must have been part of that rivalry between RCA and the other manufacturers. :scratch2:
The model 801 had a very dated cabinet styling to it too. :sigh:

I see your point and agree, but what is your theory on the fact that RCA, with their well designed and modern (for the time) flagship 630 set, would make a small number of small screen sets with a fairly complex old pre-war design? Next to 630 it's a total departure in the design "theme" of the pre-war line. There's isn't another year before or after that RCA diverted so obviously in their styling theme on their a line of radios or TV's.


The electronics design is very post war and is basically a stripped down 630. Anything is speculation at this time as far as the cabinet design goes. It could very well be that something along the lines of this cabinet was designed pre/during the war by Vassos. It may originally have been larger in order to house pre-war electronics and was shrunk along with the chassis post-war. In this respect it might be considered pre-war inspired, but of course this is just speculation.

The electronics design is very post war and is basically a stripped down 630. Anything is speculation at this time as far as the cabinet design goes. It could very well be that something along the lines of this cabinet was designed pre/during the war by Vassos. It may originally have been larger in order to house pre-war electronics and was shrunk along with the chassis post-war. In this respect it might be considered pre-war inspired, but of course this is just speculation.
I think you nailed it. All that's needed now is someone to find some kind of documentation from RCA. I'm surprised that by this time that has not happened.

Good grief, they're giving them away! Maybe I'll bid on some tomorrow, I'd have to have C&F ship though so that would suck.

I really think they hurt themselves by combining sets, often a very desirable one with something common that would have to be shipped as well, or as mentioned the two Doghouses together.

Well, um, I bought the nice walnut 621TS, Serial Number C007180. It has the 'block script lettering.

It also came with a nice GE 805 with an excellent bakelite cabinet, and a decent 721TS, in walnut.

Price for all three? $450.00 out the door.:smoke:

Well, um, I bought the nice walnut 621TS, Serial Number C007180. It has the 'block script lettering.

It also came with a nice GE 805 with an excellent bakelite cabinet, and a decent 721TS, in walnut.

Price for all three? $450.00 out the door.:smoke:

You did very well! A nice walnut 621 alone is normally at least 1K.
Enjoy them!

I think you nailed it. All that's needed now is someone to find some kind of documentation from RCA. I'm surprised that by this time that has not happened.
It seemed a little strange that RCA came out with the 621 and then the 630. Then for the next model year, they came out with the 721, which is simular the 621. Even the flyback is the same. :yes:

It seemed a little strange that RCA came out with the 621 and then the 630. Then for the next model year, they came out with the 721, which is simular the 621. Even the flyback is the same. :yes:
In my opinion it would have made sense to have the 721TS come out along with the 630, but with the 7" CRT. The squarer post-war design matched the styling theme of the other sets. RCA somehow felt committed to having to sell the small stock of the 621TS after the war. Assuming the cabinets, or parts of the cabinets, were made before the war seems like the only sensible possibility.
Who knows what was going on at the RCA labs and factories during the war. Take the 630. It was quickly put on the market right after the war in '46 with hardly a single flaw - with a totally new chassis design! Does anyone believe that was all done within a year? Most other companies, like Philco, needed another couple of years! RCA was a monster company with the resources to do as they pleased.

Both sets were introduced at the same time, and I suspect manufactured at the same time. The 621 was cheaper than the 630.

My speculation: RCA didn't know what the demand would be for either set when they were introduced. It quickly became obvious (by low sales numbers for the 621) that the public preferred the 630, and the 621 was discontinued. The basic lines of the 621 could have been designed by Vassos before or during the war, but, as Tubesrule pointed out, there is no way the cabinets could have actually been built before the war, due to the size of prewar electronic components.

Both sets were introduced at the same time, and I suspect manufactured at the same time. The 621 was cheaper than the 630.

My speculation: RCA didn't know what the demand would be for either set when they were introduced. It quickly became obvious (by low sales numbers for the 621) that the public preferred the 630, and the 621 was discontinued. The basic lines of the 621 could have been designed by Vassos before or during the war, but, as Tubesrule pointed out, there is no way the cabinets could have actually been built before the war, due to the size of prewar electronic components.

My speculation, having been a Consumer Electronics Rep for 27 years, is that early adapters of new technology are not as sensitive to price. They have in the past, and will in the future, pay more for the 'new bigger one' especially if the pricing is close enough.

Factor in installation costs, and the price difference betwixt a 621TS and a 630 shrinks further. :smoke:

Both sets were introduced at the same time, and I suspect manufactured at the same time. The 621 was cheaper than the 630.

My speculation: RCA didn't know what the demand would be for either set when they were introduced. It quickly became obvious (by low sales numbers for the 621) that the public preferred the 630, and the 621 was discontinued. The basic lines of the 621 could have been designed by Vassos before or during the war, but, as Tubesrule pointed out, there is no way the cabinets could have actually been built before the war, due to the size of prewar electronic components.

The 721 was almost identical and came out for the next model year.
Did you notice that RCA never built an electrostatic set. A few others never did either. :scratch2:

Did you notice that RCA never built an electrostatic set. A few others never did either. :scratch2:

Not post-war but pre-war they did.