I drove out to Ohio last Sunday and picked up this nifty GE coaxial set with the danish modern cabinet :banana:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8096/8483788691_deca0752bb_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8483788691/)

The seller was the son of the original owners and he still had all the original paperwork. I'll scan and post a link later.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8392/8484985338_9046c4666c_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8484985338/)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8232/8486277534_d54ae82132_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8486277534/)

He said the set didn't work and I haven't tried it yet. I sure hope the 21DEP4 has some life left. I'll test it soon.

The insides look to be all original.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8096/8487028253_59e1afb87d_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8487028253/)

Does anyone have a copy of Sams 416-2 ?

Wow! That's a good-looking set.

I should have a copy of the Sams, I got one for my GE, not sure where it is at the moment but I will find it and scan it asap.

Yours is missing some knobs too, mine is also missing those as was my original GE back in the 60's, they are fragile, I was thinking about trying to cast some.

Speaker envy!

Phil Nelson

I was hoping someone would jump on that one. Good to see it went to a good home. That speaker is crazy, man , crazy.........:smoke:

Hi All;
Yes, another one to add to the growing list !!! It looks Great and Great Find.. Will this be another FNR ??? What amazes me is You have the room for this -- Just another one --.. Good thing its skinny..
THANK YOU Marty

Was this the one nicknamed "the swiss cheese chassis" from the metal part covering the PC board with all the wholes?

I drove out to Ohio last Sunday and picked up this nifty GE coaxial set with the danish modern cabinet :banana:


The seller was the son of the original owners and he still had all the original paperwork. I'll scan and post a link later.


He said the set didn't work and I haven't tried it yet. I sure hope the 21DEP4 has some life left. I'll test it soon.

The insides look to be all original.


Does anyone have a copy of Sams 416-2 ?

The CRT looks like a rebuilt. Most of the originals were short lived.
GE refered to that model as the "Designer" line. They were really reliable.

Looks like a portable set GE modified to go into that cabinet. Someone at GE must have said "People would like a console TV that isn't deep. We have this portable TV that isn't too deep, use that in a shallow cabinet. Oh, and put in a decent speaker too."

I should have a copy of the Sams, I got one for my GE, not sure where it is at the moment but I will find it and scan it asap.

Yours is missing some knobs too, mine is also missing those as was my original GE back in the 60's, they are fragile, I was thinking about trying to cast some.

Thanks, that'd be great. Nuts, I was hoping those missing knobs would be common. I'll dig through my stash and hopefully find some that are close.

I was hoping someone would jump on that one. Good to see it went to a good home. That speaker is crazy, man , crazy.........:smoke:

I was hoping someone else would, but it sat on craigslist for weeks with no takers. I had some free time and cash by then and decided to go for it.

Hi All;
Yes, another one to add to the growing list !!! It looks Great and Great Find.. Will this be another FNR ??? What amazes me is You have the room for this -- Just another one --.. Good thing its skinny..
THANK YOU Marty

No, unfortunately there's no room for it. I do plan on moving to a much bigger place but that's probably a year away. I'll move some more stuff into storage for now. Probably sell or give away some sets too.

The original owner ran a dental practice out of his home and it's still full of vintage equipment. Scary stuff.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8525/8489894614_660ca7f55e_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8489894614/)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8378/8488796647_7901f6a894_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8488796647/)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8527/8489894062_f7db477bd0_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8489894062/)

I liked this fan, but he wanted to hang onto it.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8237/8489894810_c28d424595_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8489894810/)

Looks like a portable set GE modified to go into that cabinet. Someone at GE must have said "People would like a console TV that isn't deep. We have this portable TV that isn't too deep, use that in a shallow cabinet. Oh, and put in a decent speaker too."
Yep, the original 'portable' version was a metal cabinet with a handhold indent on each end. I guess that made it a 21 inch "luggable". :smoke:

My childhood dentist had a setup exactly like that. No cutesy assistant to vacuum out your mouth while the dentist worked -- just a spew bowl with running water, where you'd spit out tooth chunks from time to time. Gives me chills to look at it.

Phil Nelson

Bob,

That looks like a chassis M4, so I have the GE fact'ry manual on it. Pm me if you need a scan sent.

I hope the CRT is good. I had one of those in the over-the-top early american, but the CRT was so weak you needed to watch it in a dark room. I really like those in general.

I know where a fan like that still is being used, I just may need to force an upgrade...

Dave

It's dead - open filament. :tears: I do have a 21ESP4 or a 21CEP4 I could perhaps use though :scratch2:
I picked them up for some Predicta Tandem sets with nearly dead CRTs, but I would like to see this set live again.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8228/8490160076_4f1583f664_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8490160076/)

Hi All;
Sorry to hear about the filament.. Maybe you should have gotten the old Dentist tools and been on your way to rebuilding your own filament, with it.. Since you are so good at everything else you do, tv's, speakers, radio's etc..
THANK YOU marty

If only it were that easy. There's also a bit of damage on the top where someone must have spilled a drink. I figure I'll try to just refinish the top.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8090/8489385925_4b8bb02d9c_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8489385925/)

The seller also had a nice box of new and used tubes. Almost all useful late 40s / 50s TV and radio tubes.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8371/8490485468_52aa64d08d_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8490485468/)

Very '60's looking set Bob! That'll be loads of fun to watch vintage classic shows on when it's up and working.

Thanks, I think so too. Oh, I almost forgot to mention that I powered it up and I have sound and HV :thmbsp:

I read somewhere about rubbing walnuts on a water stain...

GE, the power supply is un-stoppable just like a Westinghouse...both true to thier electrical distribution equipment roots.

I read somewhere about rubbing walnuts on a water stain...

GE, the power supply is un-stoppable just like a Westinghouse...both true to thier electrical distribution equipment roots.

Unfortunately, it's not a water stain - the finish is actually gone. I know that can happen with alcohol on a shellac finish, but I suspect this is lacquer so who knows what was spilled.

I was pleased to see a proper power transformer and 5U4 rectifier rather than a hot chassis selenium voltage doubler :yes:

I know where a fan like that still is being used, I just may need to force an upgrade...



The VFW hall we rent out for our model railroad club has one of these fans, with a 20 foot power cord. It's really powerful.

Those are sure interesting and different sets. I think they also had one model that you could actually remove the portable TV from the console if you wanted to take it to another room.

If you connect your meter to the filament pins and set it on the audible continuity range and tap the neck and you hear short beeps you may be able to weld the filament back together. I have done it with success using a 40vdc supply that is current limited to 1 amp. Tap the neck and when the filament welds, the current sense circuit kicks in and reduces the voltage and limits the current. I have done it twice and the fix has held. Not sure if it matters but I also wired in a 47mfd electrolytic in parallel to the supply to add a little extra kick. You've got nothing to loose.

Thats one neat looking set Bob, the styling is very much like some of our NZ native built TV's :)
Looking at the top dual concentric knob thats not missing, I recognized it straight away as it looks to be identical to the knobs used on some Philips b/w sets made in NZ. Heres the link to a Philips TV on my site showing the same controls - http://nzvintagetvradio.blogspot.co.nz/2011/07/philips-z23cz327a.html I can take a better up close shot of these controls if it helps.

Hope you can find a CRT for the GE, its worth saving I reckon :yes:

Cheers Glen

It's dead - open filament. :tears: I do have a 21ESP4 or a 21CEP4 I could perhaps use though :scratch2:
I picked them up for some Predicta Tandem sets with nearly dead CRTs, but I would like to see this set live again.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8228/8490160076_4f1583f664_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8490160076/)
I thought it had a rebuilt CRT, because of the aquadag spray job. :sigh:

If the heater's open I wonder if it's also gone to air?

If the heater's open I wonder if it's also gone to air?
Perhaps. I'll pull out the set once I get some service info and take a closer look. I figure I can use a little 8YP4 while pondering the CRT situation.


I just finished scanning the docs.

Here's the original receipt from January, 1959 for $386.25. The hardware store where it was purchases is just a few block from where I picked up the set.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8374/8493065788_ca045dc106_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8493065788/)

It's made from genuine walnut.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8373/8491965515_9d16b18594_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8491965515/)

Here's a page from the owners manual showing the knobs,.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8110/8491966007_41e0179512_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8491966007/)

UHF operation
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8107/8493067258_97f1e3ba82_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8493067258/)

I need a couple more of these to make the set complete. (Actually, three would be nice as this one has a chip, but I'm not greedy ;) )
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8096/8493321052_7d71049c0c_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8493321052/) http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8392/8492219405_f61c77f800_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8492219405/)

Does anyone have data for a 21ESP4 CRT ? All I know about it is the pinout from the radiomuseum. The dimensions look right for the GE and the filament specs match, but I'm not sure about the HV and grid voltages. Thanks.

http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_21esp4.html

Does anyone have data for a 21ESP4 CRT ? All I know about it is the pinout from the radiomuseum. The dimensions look right for the GE and the filament specs match, but I'm not sure about the HV and grid voltages. Thanks.

http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_21esp4.html

I looked at my GE service manuals. The M5 chassis used the 21ESP4 CRT.
The ES, looks like it's good for a little more high voltage.
I would try it. :scratch2:

The U4 chassis also used the 21ESP4 and has 2kV more HV. The U4 also has a 6AQ5 for video amp and other differences. Both M4 U4 have taps on G2 for focusing
The G3 voltage (boost) for M4/21DEP4 is 310 while the U4/21ESP4 is 590.
I have a sams substitution book, but the 21DEP4 has a few subs but not the 21ESP4, The 21DEP4 shows only one sub..

Hmm, that G3 could be an issue. I'm going to dig into the set right now and take a closer look at the original CRT.

I got the chassis out fairly easily. Here's a closer look at the old CRT. Looks like it's seen a lot of hours.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8515/8499778454_0e79f5958d_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8499778454/)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8386/8498673727_bee724863a_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8498673727/)

I got the chassis up on the workbench and hooked up an 8YP4 test CRT.

It's alive :banana: Volume is stuck at 100% though.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8520/8498673327_cfa442d892_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8498673327/)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8385/8499778974_3e5cb11c61_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8499778974/) http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8100/8498673889_c4a1f1b5e5_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8498673889/)

Incredible! :thmbsp:

No signs of filament continuity from tapping the old CRT neck :( So, I got the 21ESP4 up on the bench for a test. It certainly works, but I don't think it's as bright as it should be considering it tests like new.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8111/8499866914_9efbb15e66_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8499866914/)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8376/8498761299_a7ee33f1dc_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8498761299/)

maybe just a weak video out? drifted resistors in the brightness control?

I am sure you will be checking bias voltages on the CRT to see if its being cut off.

I assume it lacks a bunch of papers?

Probably all of the above ;) It's running on what appear to be all original components and I'm sure needs an overhaul.

Do you guys think I should replace the maroon caps or leave them alone ?
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8505/8501857803_a53f6a7b64_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8501857803/)

That picture looks mighty promising, but I don't have great faith in old maroon (or blue or green) drops for the long haul. That's a cool set with lots of potential -- why take shortcuts?

Phil "fix it right or fix it twice" Nelson

Bob, they very well be OK. But for the cost of new ones (Orange Drops if you please) whilst I was in there, they would go. You could always save them but let's face it. If they are gone, more done, more security. They don't cost much to replace and PC boards are easier than point-to-point replacements, don't ya think?

OK, out they go. I have a healthy stock of new caps so that's no problem. I just thought I read somewhere that these caps were reliable.

BTW these board use the same post and wirewrap construction as the Predictas. :drool:

My knob hunt was partially successful. The original on top has a brass insert while the two I dug up and chrome, but I'm glad to have them :yes:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8511/8501922313_410562c319_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8501922313/)

And I see a 4th of those caps hiding next to an IF can on the upper left. And the black caps and an old electrolytic as well.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8505/8501857803_a53f6a7b64_c.jpg

So, I got the 21ESP4 up on the bench for a test. It certainly works, but I don't think it's as bright as it should be considering it tests like new.

DavGoodlin above mentioned that your new CRT 21ESP4 wants something like 590VDC on I think it was G2, and the old CRT wanted about half that. Found it: http://www.bunkerofdoom.com/tubes/syl59/DATA/CRTS/21DEP4.JPG And the TV set chassis would be providing what the old CRT wanted, and that might be making the new CRT be dim. If so, you might be able to hack together some form of voltage doubler off the flyback winding that's making the current G2 voltage source, to make something to feed the new CRT G2 pin. Or maybe there's a source of voltage intended for focus you could use.

Try your 21CEP4, it looks like a better match http://www.bunkerofdoom.com/tubes/syl59/DATA/CRTS/21CEP4.JPG

Thanks for the suggestions. That flyback winding is providing the boost+ voltage of around 600v and I should be able to modify the divider to get a higher G2 fairly easily.

I was planning on using that 21CEP4 in a Predicta set but we'll see how it goes.

Well it turns out I had very few of the necessary caps on hand. I mostly work on older sets and only stock 630 volt caps while this set has a few 1,000 and 1,600. Oh well, I'll just have to wait a few days for my order to arrive.

Meanwhile, I discovered why the sound was stuck at 100% - the volume control is bad! There's no continuity to the wiper. I cleaned it with DeOxit, but that didn't help. Then, I pried back the tabs and opened it up for a look inside. It seems there wasn't enough pressure on the wiper so I bent it a bit. After reassembling it worked better, but there were some dead spot. Also, I managed to break the push-pull switch somehow :(

So I started hunting around for a 1M with 500K tap plus push-pull switch with a suitable shaft. Playthings of the Past has some promising candidates, but before placing an order I figured I better dig through my spare parts box. Much to my amazement I found an identical, NOS control right on top :banana:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8371/8508607826_fa2774049f_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8508607826/)

Great find on that NOS control...Guess Murphy was 'out to lunch' in this occasion ;) How often does that happen :D

I just received my order of a few caps and resistors from Digi-Key. What the heck did they send me :eek:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8112/8513477669_ac6c90129f_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8513477669/)

I turned out to just be some 4' lengths of heatshrink tubing. Why not just roll it up or bend it ? I wonder if that would damage the tubing in some way :scratch2:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8509/8515008226_e8d3bf7173_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8515008226/)

I doubt if rolling would hurt it, in fact I've seen heatshrink sold in rolls. Probably just the shipping person had to make the call and decided better safe than sorry. Last thing they need is a call from an angry TV guy. :D

I doubt if rolling would hurt it, in fact I've seen heatshrink sold in rolls. Probably just the shipping person had to make the call and decided better safe than sorry. Last thing they need is a call from an angry TV guy. :D

LOL - could be. I picked up a couple rolls of heat shrink from Mouser, but it's a much smaller diameter.

I noticed Digi-Key carries the Rubycon BXW series (http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?vendor=1189&lang=en&Keywords=bxw%20series%20capacitors&stock=1&cur=USD) (105C, 10,000 hrs, and small) and decided to give them a try. Also got some 1600 and 1250 VDC Panasonic poly caps.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8372/8514286293_c1343ba800_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8514286293/)

I decided to start recapping the sweep board and cleanup the HV cage.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8387/8535151255_5db40487ed_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8535151255/)

It's fairly easy to work on the PCB in place. I just hard to untwist a few tabs holding the pots down and unwrap a couple wires.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8516/8536257078_d50531f837_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8536257078/)

It's even easier if you go a little farther and dismantle the HV cage.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8507/8536256504_4bdb98428b_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8536256504/)

That also gave me a chance to remove the corrosion. Here it is ready for reassembly.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8516/8536257822_43ed1cec23_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8536257822/)


I noticed this set specifies a 1J3 HV rectifier although I found a 1B3 installed.
The only difference between the two tubes I could find in the specs is the plate drop. It's a couple 100 volts more in the 1J3. It makes me wonder why the 1J3/1K3 even exists. Why not just always use the 1B3/1G3 :scratch2:

Bob,

I have a 21DSP4 NOS Chanel Master rebuilt for sale if you are interested. I am not far away from you in Milwaukee.

Thanks, but the 21DSP4 is 90° while this set uses 110° 21CEP4.

Funny about that full-length shipping box. I keep all my different shrink tubes rolled up in a glass jar and it doesn't hurt them at all.

Thanks, but the 21DSP4 is 90° while this set uses 110° 21DEP4.

Sorry Bob, I must be getting senile. I misread the original post and though it said DS. I think I need to take a break. To much going on and I am having obvious issues handling it all. Sheesh! My Bad!

I finished recapping the sweep board and HV cage. I powered it up before moving on to the IF board. It's working fairly well and I can adjust the volume now :)

I decided the best way to tackle the second board was to undo the wires and unmount it just like in a Predicta set.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8530/8564303962_8a6ca46d21_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8564303962/)

Interesting how the tubes are mounted on the foil side.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8091/8564304224_ff39d53c6c_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8564304224/)

My RCA TV set (the one I Beltroned the CRT in) has boards like that. I cheated when recapping: instead of unmounting the boards I just clipped the old cap's leads, and J hook soldered the new cap leads to the old leads. Ugly, but if you keep the new cap leads reasonably short, but not so close to the old leads where they connect to the foil of the circuit board, works. IOW, I wanted to avoid melting the old lead's solder connection to the circuit board foil, by having around 1/3 or more inch length of old lead from the board to the soldered junction of the old lead to the new cap's lead.

As you can see in the picture, you don't see the ugliness...
http://www.wa2ise.com/radios/rcatvback.jpg

I spent sometime this afternoon removing the dead CRT.

Working with it face down on a blanket seemed safer than keeping it upright.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7053/8689919929_c152820969_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8689919929/)

I quickly realized the speaker would have to come out so I could get at some bolts. That gave me a chance to finally get a good look at it and the second speaker hiding inside.
That's one huge speaker :yes:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7045/8691039532_075b3cce67_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8691039532/)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7044/8689919299_cbbaed031a_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8689919299/)

The aquadag coating had worn off the new 21ESP4 (on the right) in a few areas so I'm giving it a coat of Slip Plate before installing it.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7043/8689919067_b7388db3de_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8689919067/)

I made an attempt at touching up the damaged top but ended up striping it. Just the top that is. The rest of the original finish is in good condition.

The damage is still faintly visible on the right side. I figure some sanding and stain will take care of that.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8113/8689920221_7f26235c13_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8689920221/)

Cool. I didn't realize there was a tweeter mounted in front of the big oval speaker.

Phil Nelson

Banderson: I think the 1B3 was developed as an improvement on the 1J3. Seems like I read somewhere that the filament on the 1B3 tubes were designed a little huskier than the 1J3. Because the tube usually takes it's filament voltage from a loop on the flyback, the voltage varies quite a bit. Adjustment of the horizontal drive control, brightness, or even variations in line voltage can have quite an effect on filament voltage for the HV rectifier. In other words, plenty of voltage variation for a filament rated for 10% variation.

I have read that in cases with high failure rates, you can change sockets (and filament resistor) and use a 1AX2 tube. The 1AX2 is a much more rugged tube with a tougher filament and a shielded cathode.

tweeter mounted in front of the big oval speaker.

Phil Nelson

They must have gotten a great deal on twinlead, if they used it to feed the tweeter. Being flat helps, but any thin zip cord would also do.

They must have gotten a great deal on twinlead, if they used it to feed the tweeter. Being flat helps, but any thin zip cord would also do.
LOL - you might be right. I was wonder why the used twinlead.

Banderson: I think the 1B3 was developed as an improvement on the 1J3. Seems like I read somewhere that the filament on the 1B3 tubes were designed a little huskier than the 1J3...

Hmm. I dug up some datasheets on the tubes and they both show 1.25 +- 0.2 for the filament :scratch2:

The Slip Plate came out pretty good I think. This set relies entirely on the CRT to filter the HV so I figured it was important to have a good coating.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7043/8690506727_0009cbb9bd_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8690506727/)

There's a GE similar to this one down the street from me at the "Mini-Storage Flea Market" in Kountze. The cabinet is different.... it doesn't have the cool rounded edges like Bob's... but everything else looks to be the same... especially that weird speaker.

Unfortunately, it's missing the small knobs and also the General Electric letters that go in the center of the speaker area. On the right, it says "Ultra Vision"... that's pretty funny I think.

They have 55 bucks on the tag. I might be more inclined to get it if it didn't have all the little missing pieces. Still a neat looking TV.

The new CRT is finally installed. It took about four passes to get it seated properly.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8395/8692074466_bff0d8d05d_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8692074466/)

[QUOTE=bandersen;3067987]

I dug up some datasheets on the tubes and they both show 1.25 +- 0.2 for the filament :scratch2:

QUOTE]

If I remember correctly, it had more to do with the design of the filament itself (support, protective coating, etc). For instance, a HV rectifier subjected to filament over-voltage (and resultant high temperature), may have the nickel support rods burned away leaving the filament intact but with insufficient support. Tube engineers often changed the internal makeup of tubes to help simply improve their useful lifetime, which is what I believe to be the case in the 1B3/1J3.

Of course, I'm trying to remember the contents of an article I read years ago.
I can't find the article discussing the 1B3/1J3 differences, but I did locate the one about why HV rectifier tubes (of the 1B3 era) failed. It was also the one that tells of the advantages of replacing any of the 1B3 family of tubes with a 1AX2. It came from a book of tech tips published by CBS-Hytron.

Thanks for the info.

I finished restuffing and remounting the IF board. I sure hope I have all the wires attached correctly :yes: We'll find out later today.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8131/8701730597_9fe06178d9_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8701730597/)

The top of the cabinet is coming along nicely too. I'll let this sanding sealer cure for another day or two, then lightly sand and apply a little medium brown walnut toner.
It's sure going to be a pain to mask off the whole set before spraying :sigh:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8395/8702851696_6ce60a441a_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8702851696/)

It's up and running, but something is not quite right. The gain is lousy and some components are overheating on the IF board. Time for some troubleshooting.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8270/8702127993_66d852cc0c_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8702127993/)

A few random voltage checks seemed OK then it occurred to me I hadn't tested the tubes yet.

I've never seen such a sorry mix of shorted and weak tubes! I tracked down good replacements for all but the 6CX8 limiter and video amp. I'll continue the search for that one later.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8418/8704196556_9d9c56e19c_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8704196556/) http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8125/8704196718_56f8a1d443_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8704196718/)

That made quite a difference and just in time for Kojak and Night Gallery :D
I can't wait to fire it up with the full-sized CRT and giant speaker.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8116/8703077117_eb424243c3_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8703077117/) http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8417/8703077253_f23c19b02b_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8703077253/)

Then I remembered this set has the optional UHF tuner, hooked up a crude loop antenna and gave it a try. Yes, we do still have a few low power analog TV broadcasts in Chicago.

All I found was used car salesmen and religious stuff. Some things never change :rolleyes:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8269/8704197860_e309dba15b_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8704197860/) http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8416/8703077403_57b37e31e8_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8703077403/)

A few random voltage checks seemed OK then it occurred to me I hadn't tested the tubes yet.

I've never seen such a sorry mix of shorted and weak tubes! I tracked down good replacements for all but the 6CX8 limiter and video amp. I'll continue the search for that one later.


Wow Bob, is that top picture with the Hickock card tester showing all shorts!! seems like 4 of them as well!!

Wow, those where some sorry tubes! Glad to see it finally starting to come together so well!

Wow Bob, is that top picture with the Hickock card tester showing all shorts!! seems like 4 of them as well!!

Yes, it's showing shorts on four out of five elements!


Here's the latest issue I'm fighting with. The left side of the screen seems brighter with a line down the middle. It moves with the horizontal hold control. Replacing the 6AX4 damper tube had no effect.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8546/8704326775_77b0914be1_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8704326775/)

That chassis looks vaguely familiar. My parents had a GE Coaxial console that even had bass & treble controls. Too young at the time to know what "coaxial" meant, all I knew is that it sounded pretty good. Blond cabinet.

Nice set.

The left side of the screen seems brighter with a line down the middle. It moves with the horizontal hold control.

Maybe the horizontal blanking isn't working? Hooked up backwards? Does it move in the opposite direction of the motion of the main picture when you play with the horiz hold?

Here's the latest issue I'm fighting with. The left side of the screen seems brighter with a line down the middle.]

Many of my B&W sets do that... but not quite as extreme as what yours is. Like your set, mine is most noticeable with nothing on the screen... or during night time scenes.

My GE was doing something similar, only I think it does it with the Fine Tuning instead of the Horiz Hold.

Maybe the horizontal blanking isn't working? Hooked up backwards? Does it move in the opposite direction of the motion of the main picture when you play with the horiz hold?

Yes, it does move in the opposite direction :scratch2:

A few more thoughts: Looks like the flyback pulse leaking into the video. Could be from the CRT cathode wire being too close to the flyback transformer (This still an on bench test setup, or did you put the chassis in the cabinet?). Maybe the CRT aquadag not grounded? Brightness wire line to the CRT needing a bypass cap? (maybe the wrong size cap or bad connection?). Cover not mounted on the flyback cage (TV set designers relying on the cage to contain the flyback pulse from leaking into other parts of the set?)

How solid is the horizontal locking action itself, rock solid or soft and 'drifty' around center? Does the set use tube diodes for hor.AFC or the typical 3-legged SS phasing diode? If the latter, it's a very common failure mode causing weak or absent hor. sync.

Urk, that almost looks like an acute case of the "fuzzy bar" issue that drove one Predicta owner nearly crazy. There was a long thread about that either here or on ARF sometime in the last couple of years.

Speaking of GEs, isn't this the same model for sale in Providence?

http://providence.craigslist.org/atq/3708999095.html

Phil Nelson

A few more thoughts: Looks like the flyback pulse leaking into the video. Could be from the CRT cathode wire being too close to the flyback transformer (This still an on bench test setup, or did you put the chassis in the cabinet?). Maybe the CRT aquadag not grounded? Brightness wire line to the CRT needing a bypass cap? (maybe the wrong size cap or bad connection?). Cover not mounted on the flyback cage (TV set designers relying on the cage to contain the flyback pulse from leaking into other parts of the set?)

You might be on to something. It just occurred to me that this set doesn't have a HV doorknob cap and the test CRT doesn't have any aquadag coating. So when it's on the workbench there's no HV filtering at all.

How solid is the horizontal locking action itself, rock solid or soft and 'drifty' around center? Does the set use tube diodes for hor.AFC or the typical 3-legged SS phasing diode? If the latter, it's a very common failure mode causing weak or absent hor. sync.


It does have a 3-legged SS diode and I haven't replaced it. The horizontal lock is OK, but not great so maybe I should replace it.

Urk, that almost looks like an acute case of the "fuzzy bar" issue that drove one Predicta owner nearly crazy. There was a long thread about that either here or on ARF sometime in the last couple of years.

Speaking of GEs, isn't this the same model for sale in Providence?

http://providence.craigslist.org/atq/3708999095.html

Phil Nelson

That's close, but not quite the same. The legs go all the way up to the top on my set.
http://images.craigslist.org/3E73L53Je5Ff5H25M8d3s4923c722abbf1022.jpg http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8096/8483788691_deca0752bb.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8483788691/)

I've always passed on sets that have cabinet issues that are beyond simple touch-ups and buffing. Watching that great job you do on serious cabinet issues is giving me confidence to step-up my skills.
That top looks excellent already!
Joe

I've always passed on sets that have cabinet issues that are beyond simple touch-ups and buffing. Watching that great job you do on serious cabinet issues is giving me confidence to step-up my skills.
That top looks excellent already!
Joe

Thanks. I think once you get the hang of strippers, grain filler and lacquer, it's really not that hard.

I replaced the dual selenium with a modern dual schottky diode and it made no difference. Neither did moving the CRT leads around so I installed the chassis into the cabinet and hooked up the new CRT.

The issue remains but it's not nearly as bad as it was.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8266/8709808836_6428c590ac_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8709808836/)

It's hardly noticeable when viewing actual programming.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8272/8708686569_3d8dd2eca8_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8708686569/)

I need to do a little work on centering the picture and it's still not quite as bright as I think it should be.
There's also a bit of buzzing in the audio that varies with the contrast control. Perhaps an alignment will get rid of it. Otherwise, the sound is great :music:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8264/8709808688_35e7ee8e64_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8709808688/)

Damn good lookin TV as compared to its beginning.. :thmbsp:

Steve

Bob, those are some awesome screen shots! I used to try hunting for that cause of the lighter bar on the left side... and eventually would give up since it wouldn't be noticeable while viewing the video.

That set in Providence looks like the one for sale here near me in Kountze. I wanted to go pick the set up this weekend, but having to stay off my feet for a few days following a little surgery. I'm sure it will be there next weekend... I know it's been there several months already. One more weekend wont hurt.

I, too, will be looking for those small knobs.... dammit. Even worse, I will have to look for that name badge in the center of the speaker.

I think I can help you out a little with some small knobs. I have a few dinged up ones left over.

Another little issue I have is some nasty arcing sounds when the screen first lights up and when the set is turned off. So far I haven't been able to pinpoint the source. It doesn't happen with the little test CRT so I'm thinking it has something to do with the coating on the big CRT. Maybe I got it too close to the yoke or HV anode ?

...Another little issue I have is some nasty arcing sounds when the screen first lights up and when the set is turned off. So far I haven't been able to pinpoint the source.
Possibly the static charge on the CRT face(?) With some sets you can hear it when the HV first comes up, and again when the HV goes off (it's a negative-going static charge as the HV drops). But it's more of a benign crackling and would hardy qualify as "nasty". :naughty:

No, this is definitely a loud cracking sound as the picture first comes on or fades away. The image on the screen also goes nuts during the sound leading me to think it might be the yoke arcing to the new dag coating.

No, this is definitely a loud cracking sound as the picture first comes on or fades away. The image on the screen also goes nuts during the sound leading me to think it might be the yoke arcing to the new dag coating.
Or possibly an "island" of dag that lacks electrical continuity with the grounded "mainland" (?)
since the effect is most pronounced during the charge-up and bleed-down intervals..

I wonder if that lighter vertical bar or lighter left side could be related to a Barkhausen oscillation? It's not the same as the classic view of it, but could it be an oscillation cropping up in the horizontal output? Some cages have a magnet near that tube, or sometimes an ion trap is strapped to the tube, moved around to see if it makes a difference? Or trying different tubes.

I recall Phil posted a photo of Barkhausen oscillation recently and it appears as a narrow squiggly vertical line. I did try different tubes and it had no effect.

I've also noticed fine tuning does have quite an effect on it as Eric mentioned earlier. I'm going to hold off on fooling with that issue and the buzzy audio until I do an alignment. Between replacing so many caps, resistors and tubes I figure it's got to be off.

Here's about when the arcing sound is worse as power up
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7433/8715165120_00e841e445_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8715165120/)

and at power down
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7432/8715165638_f5457ddd3a_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8715165638/)

I get a sense there's built up energy looking for somewhere to go. I'm also starting to wonder if the sound is actually coming from the speakers and not arcing at all. :scratch2:

The built-in UHF antenna and tuner are working better than I expected and I can pickup LP channel 48.

Very cool to watch TV the old fashioned way without firing up a transmitter.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7337/8714079663_895dca0c2b_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8714079663/)

Great job man! That cabinet turned out beautiful. I can't even tell the top was redone, the color matches perfect. Nice picture too, I wish there were some LP stations closer to me. I can pick them up, but not clearly.

...Here's about when the arcing sound is worse as power up

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7433/8715165120_00e841e445_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8715165120/)

Looks like a borderline weak H oscillator tube. The pic should come on fully locked in.
Not sure how out-of-sync horz sweep would cause the arcing sound, though.

Does this tv have a piece of metal from the chassis that lays on the dag of the CRT to bleed off a charge? Is it workin okay???

SR

There is a metal tab at the top and bottom of the CRT tension band than press against the dag. I'll double check. I'm also going to check the tubes on the sweep board again. It does take a while for the set to lock when turned on.

I'm a little distracted by a free set that was just dropped off :) Details to follow.

...I'm also going to check the tubes on the sweep board again. It does take a while for the set to lock when turned on.
Even if the osc. tube tests 'good', try dropping the heater voltage a notch or two. Or use the 'life' test if the tester has it. If emission drops abruptly the tube is borderline in oscillator service.

In instances like this, the set itself can be the best tube tester. :D

I'm wondering if the Horizontal osc coil needs touching up? The one on the board I mean, not the Consumer used control.
You may just be hearing the screech of a tortured oscillator trying to start up.

Perhaps. I'll pull the chassis out once the cabinet refinishing is done and go trough all the factory adjustments.

I spent a lot of time and used a lot of tape to get the set masked off so I could spray the top. Lacquer dries after a couple feet in the air so I'm not concerned about any getting on the feet on my floor. They will just be some brown dust I'll clean up with a swiffer.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7436/8722360594_d5d603b8c7_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8722360594/)

Here it is after three passes with the toner and a couple coats of semi-gloss lacquer.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/8722358782_d5a378dd77_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8722358782/)

Great job man! That cabinet turned out beautiful. I can't even tell the top was redone, the color matches perfect. Nice picture too, I wish there were some LP stations closer to me. I can pick them up, but not clearly.

LOL - The top isn't done - it just looks good in the dim lighting.

The weather is finally warm again and I should have the top done soon. Meanwhile, I snapped the neck off the original, dead CRT so I could dispose of it.

I wish I could just reach in there and fix the filament :sigh:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7281/8739872313_1069b80414_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8739872313/) http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7284/8740987928_c976625e30_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8740987928/)

I finally decided I was happy with the top and removed the masking tape. It's not exact but a pretty decent color match I think. I'd have to do a custom blend to get any closer. After it cures a while longer, I'll knock it down with some steel wool and pumice.

Now I can get back at the electronics inside :)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7291/8742233712_e8e65d2c47_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8742233712/)

I wish I could just reach in there and fix the filament :sigh:


You could fix it now:D...Though it probably would not do you any good without CRT rebuilding equipment.

I tend to keep electron guns whenever I have to snap one off. I like the way they look...Especially the delta-guns off of rectangular color tubes; those sort of look like Lightsabers:lazer:

Man, I think it came out really cool! It certainly looks like it was well worth your time and effort! :yes:

Hi All;
Bob, I am Glad to see that it was you who snapped off the neck, instead of something Your picture tube checker did to it..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
Bob, I am Glad to see that it was you who snapped off the neck, instead of something Your picture tube checker did to it..
THANK YOU Marty

Why would you think a CRT tester could snap off the neck of a CRT. :headscrat

CRT testers are electrical devices that attach to the CRT base via a wire and socket and apply fairly low voltages. The only way someone could snap a neck off a CRT during testing is by having an unsafe procedure or an accident. The only way a tester could neck a tube when used properly is if the tester got hit by lightning during the test(CRTs have been known to have neck failures and implosions if subjected to voltages more than 50% over their specked HV anode voltage).

A more likely scenario would be brushing against the set when the back is off. That stubby little necks sticks out just enough to easily get broken.

I'm happy to say that I have yet to break a CRT except on purpose. Uh-oh! I probably just jinxed myself :para:

Man, I think it came out really cool! It certainly looks like it was well worth your time and effort! :yes:

Thanks! I hope just a little more tinkering and it'll be done :thmbsp:

Hi All;
ElectronicM, it was a joke that it hadn't blown up while testing it.. I know that unless the Tube is struck, a tester won't cause it to explode and Break.. But, Thanks for the warning..
THANK YOU Marty

A more likely scenario would be brushing against the set when the back is off. That stubby little necks sticks out just enough to easily get broken.

I'm happy to say that I have yet to break a CRT except on purpose. Uh-oh! I probably just jinxed myself :para:



Thanks! I hope just a little more tinkering and it'll be done :thmbsp:

I wish I could say the same thing. I've broken several back when I was in the repair biz, and all were for customer's sets:tears:

I was a Crosley dealer in the 90's. Of course, Crosley is just a brand name now (appliances sourced from Whirlpool and electronics were sourced from Magnavox). I paid $300 for a 1954 model Crosley console that had been restored. It was a beautiful set that sure got a lot of compliments. I had a customer one day who was standing in front of it, and pushed the cabinet back against the wall....my heart sank as I heard the rush of air when the neck snapped off the pic tube.

I ended up selling it to a local optometrist who gutted it and converted it to a display case in his waiting room.

I finally had some time late last night to pull the back off this set and do some investigating.

First, I took a look at the metal tabs pressing against the aquadag coating and they are both making good contact. They are attached to the metal band running around the CRT which is bolted into a metal frame running around the front of the set. All that looked fine.

Then I noticed that the metal CRT frame is separate from the metal TV chassis. They have to be connected somewhere. Eventually, I noticed a missing bolt that connects the two together. Replacing that solved the problem :)
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3828/9137905290_c0ff4e01ba_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/9137905290/)

Another issue is bad horizontal hold. It takes a few second after power up for it to lock and the control on the back of the set is very touchy.

I did the obvious thing first and retested the tubes. Right away I found one half of a 6CG7 completely dead. Weird. The filament is glowing but it has 0 emissions. I replaced it and the sync is solid now :thmbsp:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3788/9135685915_6c3809e170_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/9135685915/)

Hi Bob,

I commented on your You Tube post about this set, finally had the chance to show you what I mean. I was quite surprised when I first saw a GE set like this.

Yours is much nicer than mine, but most Australian TVs are not that fantastic. Pity I can only seem to upload one pic from the iPad, there's 2 more.

Cheers,

Adam

Wow, that sure does look the same - even the knobs!

Right away I found one half of a 6CG7 completely dead. Weird. The filament is glowing but it has 0 emissions. I replaced it and the sync is solid now

I have a $2 pocket knife with a serrated edge that works perfectly for scraping oxidation from tube pins. They need to be shiny. The typical dull gray look is a problem in the works. Many times with a tester you can hold down the "test" button and wiggle the tube around and that dead section will come to life proving that the tube needs cleaning. Otherwise there would have to be an internally open connection which is possible, but unlikely.

The dental pictures looks like the same type of equipment that my dentist used when I was a kid getting work done. Gosh that was 50+ years ago. I probably still have some of the fillings that he put in. Bet that x-ray machine put out a lot more power than the x-rays from any TV set.

Here's the remaining 2 pics I took, sorry about the poor quality.

You can see how uninspiring the cabinet is compared to yours Bob, and the chassis is completely different. There should be a cage over the high voltage section at the top right corner, but that's in the UK now! I can't wait to get stuck into this, as I had one of these when I was a kid. Back then, if it involved more than tweaking a few internal controls or replacing a tube, it was too hard to fix!

Ah, if only the internet had been around then!

You can see why I think that someone was sleeping with someone else in terms of the design: they're too identical to be a coincidence. I wonder if there is a story to be uncovered here!

Cheers,

Adam :)

I was hoping someone would jump on that one. Good to see it went to a good home. That speaker is crazy, man , crazy.........:smoke:


But it is probably driven by a single 6CU5 with maybe 2 watts of power....WAAAYYY too much speaker for the amp!!

Hi Bob,

I commented on your You Tube post about this set, finally had the chance to show you what I mean. I was quite surprised when I first saw a GE set like this.

Yours is much nicer than mine, but most Australian TVs are not that fantastic. Pity I can only seem to upload one pic from the iPad, there's 2 more.

Cheers,

Adam


I have a 19" portable like this. ALMOST got stolen last winter....but I saved it before the thieves came back for it...Has an "M4" chassis too I think.

Glad to hear you still have it! Stealing stuff from people is all kinds of wrong.

This chassis in the pic is an M1. Not sure if there's any relationship there or not. What still amazes me is that my HMV was from around the mid 60's, yet US TVs were well and truly using PCBs by then. Point to point wired chassises (new word to be learnt!) are more fiddly to work on, but still fun. Although the PCBs in Predictas aren't exactly the easiest to work on...

And here are the same small controls as on the GE and the HMV...this time on one of my New Zealand made Philips 1960's tube console black and white sets.....Who was pinching who's design ideas??:D