What TV would be the most valuable if it were to be found in the wild?
Baird Model-C, Farnsworth Prewar set, 1920s Bell Labs experimental, other prewar prototype etc. Also has anyone ever done a database on sets known to exist but no surviving examples found?

Richard

http://www.sfcityguides.org/images/guidelines/tv.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/8-bWotBgvdX5dMY25rRWk4f6jeDJTJqESOVFAH8x4d7JFuxGR92H v8pZM49HoJ4la0uM-xAdXDnvFOJD4yHqwG1Pts5WULHt/television.jpg

Those would be the top two in my estimation. At least one published source mistakenly (??) listed the Zworykin prototype as surviving.

That bottom pic might have almost been considered Porn back in '29...Look how much LEG that gal is showing...(grin)

That bottom pic might have almost been considered Porn back in '29...Look how much LEG that gal is showing...(grin)
Huh? :D
http://www.dialcover.com/home.html

Hi All;
I have a book that shows a schematic for this set or one pretty close to it.. Not much to it.. In one they use two different Super hets and then the TV specific parts for scanning and such.. In the later there is only one super het.. And a wider IF.. And Both used AM sound.. At first they used mechanical scanning, and as quickly as they could they switched to Electronic scanning on the Camera end..
THANK YOU Marty

http://api.ning.com/files/8-bWotBgvdX5dMY25rRWk4f6jeDJTJqESOVFAH8x4d7JFuxGR92H v8pZM49HoJ4la0uM-xAdXDnvFOJD4yHqwG1Pts5WULHt/television.jpg

Looks like the hallway of an old R&D lab. Not the old RCA Sarnoff Lab, they built that place around WW2. But he still had an office at Sarnoff until the mid 80's, but I don't remember ever seeing him there.

RCA Labs had a small display/museum of early color TV. One of the items was a prototype of the shadow mask color CRT. They threw it together late one night, so they could show it to the FCC the next day to convince them to forget about that CBS sequential color wheel thing, and go with the NTSC color system. The CRT looked like an oscilloscope tube, and about 7 inches diameter round. And had a smaller rectangular region where the color phosphors and shadow mask was mounted inside. A proof of concept demo unit. I don't remember seeing complete sets there, not enough room.

maybe the question should be mechanical and electronic , protype and on the market.

mike

There's no answer to this question, because it's all up to the tycoon who may decide for him/herself to spend wild on whatever set takes their fancy. True in all collectibles categories.

With that said, I'd have to bet on early color prototypes. Zenith 43M20 plexiglass, RCA Model I thru V, etc. Exotic prewar sets are indeed in orbit, but I've sold a few of them on eBay (A Fada 5" factory-built 1F5, a Meissner 5" kit, built and in factory optional wood cabinet, and a TRK-12 in decent shape & working), and they didn't go near what I know of as being legitimate standing offers for some color sets.

Charles

There's no answer to this question, because it's all up to the tycoon who may decide for him/herself to spend wild on whatever set takes their fancy. True in all collectibles categories.

With that said, I'd have to bet on early color prototypes. Zenith 43M20 plexiglass, RCA Model I thru V, etc. Exotic prewar sets are indeed in orbit, but I've sold a few of them on eBay (A Fada 5" factory-built 1F5, a Meissner 5" kit, built and in factory optional wood cabinet, and a TRK-12 in decent shape & working), and they didn't go near what I know of as being legitimate standing offers for some color sets.

Charles

Charles,
Those are by far the most common pre-war sets so it's probably not a good comparison to prototype color sets of of which for the most part, none are known to exist. It would probably be better to compare production B&W to production color sets, and prototype B&W to prototype color sets with mechanical sets falling somewhere in between. Of course with any item like these, they're worth what the buyer and seller agree on with little to no precedence to fall back on.

Darryl

http://api.ning.com/files/8-bWotBgvdX5dMY25rRWk4f6jeDJTJqESOVFAH8x4d7JFuxGR92H v8pZM49HoJ4la0uM-xAdXDnvFOJD4yHqwG1Pts5WULHt/television.jpg

I have a reoccurring dream of finding that exact set.

Huh? :D
http://www.dialcover.com/home.html

Uhh, yeah, uhh, well, you got a Point there...(grin)

Hi All;
VTS1134, I have a feeling, that your Dream is just that.. As, I don't know for sure, and I would love to be corrected.. But, after Sarnoff Sr., died, that alot or even most of what was (To us) of value, would have been called junk by the powers that be at RCA by that time.. So, who knows what was thrown out to either make room for something else or thrown out so the building could be sold.. I don't know for sure but how much or how many of the Journals and "Experimental" Kinescope, Iconoscope, Image Orthicon, etc., got saved ?? What I have is from published material, which is but a small snoposis of what happened during that period.. 1929 to 1941
THANK YOU Marty

Packard, one of the oldest & most respected names in American motoring, had a similar problem...They had an EXTENSIVE collection of priceless archives, records, significant vehicles from the earliest days of the company, but in 1952, when they were more or less in their death-spiral, they got in a new President, James Nance, who ordered virtually all of it scrapped. Some was saved by a few company stalwarts, but MOST of it got shit-canned. The loss was nearly incalculable.

Hi All;
I have a friend who had tried to obtain some of the early documents and tapes, both paper tapes and magnetic from a company after the company had been sold.. He got some of it years later, but it was a fraction of what had origionally been made.. And was told the rest had been thrown away, in spite of His plea's to buy it from them.. I think they threw it away just to be spitefull toward Him..
THANK YOU Marty

What TV would be the most valuable if it were to be found in the wild?


This does not exactly answer your original question, but as far as "most money spent" on a TV, I do recall seeing a GE mirror in lid set (i think it was from 1939) that was listed on ebay several years ago... it was a beautiful set... the cabinet was awesome... and I recall the highest bid was around 11 grand.

At the time of the auction, condition of the insides was not known, but it did look complete. Seems I recall there were comments about the set later... that it turned out to be okay after the innards were gone thru.

I think I still have a photo of it from the auction (at home, not with me now).

I would think a few others around here might remember the set I am speaking of.

I'm sure that at some point, more money has been laid out for a vintage set, but, that's the most I can remember seeing being spent for the public to see.

I heard a rumor that an RCA 359 field test set went for over $40K about 10 years ago. RCA shipped some RCA 359 sets to Russia. There is one at the ETF museum which I believe was used for testing broadcast transmissions around NYC. http://www.earlytelevision.org/rca_rr-359.html
As in other antiques and collectibles the history of a specific set makes it more valuable. Probably a specific set which Elvis or JFK actually watched in their home would appeal to collectors of their merchandise. I bought a camera tripod from the Farnsworth museum which closed in Indiana which they said one of Farnsworth's original camera's sat on. I only paid $125 for it so not all old and rare items are worth alot. I got a photocopy of the Tripod on a Guitar magazine cover from the 1930s with it. I searched the internet and bought a copy of the actual magazine which also had a story of the Farnsworth corporation televising a guitar school.

As for the highest priced sets that have been sold, RCA RR-359s have sold for about $50k. I heard a rumor that a GE Octagon went for $100k years ago. A RCA 120 line prototype sold a few years ago. I don't know the price but I suspect that it was well over $50k.

If a Farnsworth prewar prototype ever surfaced I think it would sell in that range.

Well, we sold the 1946 GE projection color wheel Model 950 for $14,000 around 10 or 15 years ago, and the buyer re-sold it for 150,000 pounds sterling to an overseas Museum, not too much after that....so that might have been the most expensive TV sale going...although I'm not sure what the plexiglass TRK-12 sold for.

http://www.earlytelevision.org/ge_1946_prototype.html

...where are those TV museum's with unlimited cash???

I have a 7-volume set of the OFFICIAL development of Television from the RCA Laboratories, going back to 1933. The last book goes up to about 1950, & has some early color work in it. Dr. Zworykin figures quite prominently in it.

The highest sale price I've seen recently was $44,055 after buyers fees for an original Baird T-5. It sold in May of 2012 at a Bonhams auction in London.
http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19798/lot/1/

Well, we sold the 1946 GE projection color wheel Model 950 for $14,000 around 10 or 15 years ago, and the buyer re-sold it for 150,000 pounds sterling to an overseas Museum, not too much after that....so that might have been the most expensive TV sale going...although I'm not sure what the plexiglass TRK-12 sold for.

http://www.earlytelevision.org/ge_1946_prototype.html

...where are those TV museum's with unlimited cash???

I chased one of those Farnsworth prototypes for YEARS, and never got it. It was still in the Farnsworth family (Philo C. Farnsworth of Pacific Palisades, CA). His family attended the same Mormon ward as a mutual friend, who showed me a picture of the TV in a garage. It was a 9 inch (or so) console; direct view, in a wood factory-looking cabinet. I tried politely and patiently from about 1980 to the mid 90s; no luck. Possibly still there, if anyone wants to try, but I think that branch of the Farnsworths have moved away (or passed away) by now. No idea where to look at this point, unless someone else got it unknown to me.

Charles

I'm basically repeating what has been said before, but any pre-war all electronic TV is very rare, historically significant, and highly sought after, especially if it is in good condition and complete. It's just a matter of which are the rarest to pin-point which is the most valuable. The mechanical "scanning disk" sets are very valuable too, but, because they are basically just a static display, they appeal to a very select group.
My own personal opinion for the most valuable TV would be the RCA experimental "RR" series of "mirror-in-the-lid" televisions. Any collector, including myself, would very much like to have one in their collection!!
http://www.antiqueradio.com/images/May03-Bintliff-Fig1.jpg

The mechanical "scanning disk" sets are very valuable too, but, because they are basically just a static display, they appeal to a very select group.


Joe,
That's really changed in recent years. From Steve's effort on recreating a mechanical camera to my converters, there is no television, mechanical or electronic, that can not be made to work these days.

Below are some pictures of an RCA 60 line and a Western Visionette operating with their original neon plate lamps.

And for even more fun, add an RGB LED lamp and watch in full 60 line color :)

Darryl

Wow...Dr Smith on scanning-disc cOLOR...(grin)

Joe,
That's really changed in recent years. From Steve's effort on recreating a mechanical camera to my converters, there is no television, mechanical or electronic, that can not be made to work these days.

Below are some pictures of an RCA 60 line and a Western Visionette operating with their original neon plate lamps.

And for even more fun, add an RGB LED lamp and watch in full 60 line color :)

Darryl

Thanks for the info. I've known about this, but I've never realized that you can actually watch recorded or broadcast TV on them! That's pretty cool! I would still say that the all-electronic pre-wars are the most desirable - if just for the deco cabinetry alone.
Joe

I would still say that the all-electronic pre-wars are the most desirable - if just for the deco cabinetry alone.
Joe

I would agree. Collectors of mechanical sets are a small subset of television collectors.

Darryl

Hi All;
I was just re-reading the life of Zworykin, and He did not become employed at RCA till the mid part of 1930.. Which would suggest that the Picture of Him and the Lady and the Television Receiver, was at Westinghouse and not at RCA..
THANK YOU Marty

I need to set as a goal for myself someday building a mechanical set. That color image is just too much...wow!

Hi All;
There is a number of ways to build a mechanical system.. And If you look arround at Troys site, He has multi plans for different Mechanical systems, among other things..
http://troysvintagevideo.0catch.com/index.html
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I was just re-reading the life of Zworykin, and He did not become employed at RCA till the mid part of 1930.. Which would suggest that the Picture of Him and the Lady and the Television Receiver, was at Westinghouse and not at RCA..
THANK YOU Marty

Which would put that set in Pittsburgh, which is why it haunts my dreams.

Zworykin wrote an article for the December 1929 Radio Engineering magazine describing this set. His byline listed him at Westinghouse in Pittsburgh. In this picture you can see the lab prototype in a plain wood box and the display version in the Radiola 47 cabinet. Note that you can just make out the Westinghouse logo on the crt in the Radiola picture.

Darryl

You're making it worse Darryl :scratch2:.

You're making it worse Darryl :scratch2:.

Keep looking John, you never know if it might still be lurking somewhere. This would be an awesome find!