Hi All;
I just got a 630 chassis and 10BP4 CRT tube from MikeH.. I used the Money that was origionally going for the Caps for the 8T243, that I have.. But, I think I got a great deal.. THANK YOU Mike.. :banana: :banana: So, now I will need to make a new Cap list.. I have NOT plugged it in, Nor am I planning on doing so.. I have been so scared, about doing so, from the Discussions.. And I don't want to get into that, here.. It has got alot of surface dirt, but otherwise it looks good.. I plan on checking the tubes, and stuff like that, which doesn't cost me anything.. I want to do this set RIGHT !!! I hope Bandersen hurries up and makes his 630 Videos.. THANK YOU to everyone for all the Help and support.. I almost forgot, Anyone who wants to have someone nice and caring and helpful, would do well dealing with Mike.. THANK YOU Mike, you went beyond what anyone would expect..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I am still Drooling all over the chassis.. But, I guess that is one way to clean it up..
THANK YOU Marty

Yeah, I will be starting on mine soon. I got all the parts a couple weeks ago :) Good luck with yours.

Hi All;
I got tubes preliminary checked, no shorts.. My tube checker is acting a little funny, so for now.. I will leave it as is.. Cleaned the Chassis, took out all the pieces of leaves from under the tubes and cleaned all the tubes.. I have Found and decided what to do about my Bleeder resistor problem.. I still need to ohm out the Transformers.. And start doing a resistor check.. When I can afford it, I will get the Electrolytics,, and then do an initial power up, to see what else shows up.. With Variac..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
Power Transformer seems to ohm out OK.. :D That's a relief .. I wouldn't be a happy camper otherwise..
THANK YOU Marty

1) Take your time-Haste makes waste
2) Quit before you get frustrated-It'll be there tomorrow when you're fresh & not aggervated
3) If you don't know, ask questions
4)Take your time-Haste makes waste
5) Just THINK what you're gonna have when you get done...And you did it YRSELF..

Hi All;
Yes, Sandy, But the last time I asked for some advice.. I didn't get any answers.. Tomorrow, I plan to Put a light Bulb in series with the Power Transformer and checking all the voltages.. That is with all the Tubes Taken out, so all I'm checking is the Power Transformer, all by itself.. And then do some cleaning of the chassis.. And, Just so you know, I learned about TV's and voltage, especially high voltage, when I was a kid.. Been, shocked a few times.. And, yes it bears repeating, even for us old guys, as well as the youngsters of today..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I have powered up the transformer, thru a light bulb.. The Voltages, are all OK.. Thank Goodness.. :banana:
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I have started to Pull Caps.. I take a picture, pull a wire or part lead off, take some more pictures, pull another lead, take some more pictures, etc., until only the Cap is left.. Then go on to the next Cap.. When I go to put something back in, (I haven't decided, just what or what method I will use for Recapping) I will still Ohm out each wire, as a double check.. But, pictures are worth more than just guessing, even with an ohm meter..
THANK YOU Marty

Sounds like a good plan. Glad your transformer is OK :thmbsp:

Hi All;
I just got Tonight, the Electrolytic caps that I need for my 630TS.. I found that when I ordered only what I needed. And only the Electrolytics, I have been able to keep the cost down, by alot.. Aftetr selling some equipment, I had enough to get the caps.. My roomate figured out how to take the cans apart, So the next step is filling the cans.. Since I am sick or at least no energy, I can't say how soon or late it will be to complete the task.. After that I will bring it up with a Variac..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I just got Tonight, the Electrolytic caps that I need for my 630TS.. I found that when I ordered only what I needed. And only the Electrolytics, I have been able to keep the cost down, by alot.. Aftetr selling some equipment, I had enough to get the caps.. My roomate figured out how to take the cans apart, So the next step is filling the cans.. Since I am sick or at least no energy, I can't say how soon or late it will be to complete the task.. After that I will bring it up with a Variac..
THANK YOU Marty

Good luck with the restuffing. I find restuffing electrolytic capacitors to be quite a chore, but of course well worth the effort in the end. I look forward to seeing your progress as I am also working on a 630ts.

Hi All;
VTS, I know that, and watch with interest what you encounter and your progress.. Once, I get mine so, I can power it up, then we can compare notes.. Thank You for your help and support.. I am hoping that Bandersen will have time in the near future to work on His 630.. His videos are so good, and are of immense help.. I also, greatly appreciate all of the many guys who have been doing thing for so long and know that to do, at the drop of a hat or cap.. I look at your video, and don't see half of the stuff that they see.. I'll need to re-look at it again..
THANK YOU Marty

what method I will use for RecappingIn case you haven't already seen them . . .

This recapping article covers various methods of restuffing electrolytic cans:

http://www.antiqueradio.org/recap.htm

And this article describes 630TS restoration:

http://www.antiqueradio.org/RCA630TSTelevision.htm

Regards,

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

This is where I learned how to restuff electrolytic cans.
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/22501148
It is in a sticky on the tech forum here. I'm still working on getting the crimp to look original when I'm done. Although you can't see that part of the job after you mount the can, I still like it to look as untouched as I can. My best advice is to work the crimp section off of the can as slowly and deliberately as you can. The cleaner you can get that to straighten out, the cleaner it will be to "re-crimp" it back into place.

Hi All;
I had looked at the various articles and youtube postings on Restuffing of the Caps.. But, my problem was and is, that with my Bad eyesight, I couldn't always tell exactly what was being done.. So, when I first tried it, I was doing it wrong, but my roomate looked at the videos and the pictures and He immediately knew what I was doing wrong.. I just couldn't tell from the pictures.. So He will take them apart for me, and since I can't always tell with enough detail what I am doing and what I need to do.. But, we have this worked out He does the dis-assembly and assembly, I do the electrical or electronic part..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I have all six of the Electrolytics stuffed and all but one re-folded so it all stays together.. My roomate when He comes back will take care of this last one.. I next will be starting to wire them all in.. I in a sense can't wait till everything is wired in and I can make an attempt to bring the set up for the first time, via a Variac.. But, still being weak and having the chills, I will be taking my time on the wiring.. Don't want to make any wiring mistakes, either from being in too much of a hurry or not watching what I an doing and looking at both on the schematics and on the set itself.. Ohm and yellow highlight, recheck and ohm again.. And if need be check pictures..
THANK YOU Marty

I've not been anywheres this neat when I've restuffed cans. Or more precisely I've just hacksawed off the can just above the rubber insulator, while it's still on the chassis. And put one of the bigger replacements above chassis, and smaller ones tied to the terminals below chassis. That way, I don't have to unsolder the wiring under the chassis. Looks fairly ugly, though... I just think of the old cap's terminals as a terminal strip now.

Hi All;
I have all six all crimpted and ready to re-mount in the chassis.. If, possible we'll see after I remount them.. But, to me It just isn't right to cut them off from the outside.. But, I may find out that I have no other choice.. If, the remount doesn't work.. Now to start the wiring..
THANK YOU Marty

I would like to "remove and uncrimp" all of my bad electrolytic capacitors, but I had poor luck trying to unsolder the twisted tabs that were attached to the chassis on my 8TS30, even with a 140-watt soldering gun. I ended up using the "saw off and epoxy the cover on later" method mostly. The re-crimped capacitors definitely look the best, but there is also the tradeoff of removing their wiring and reinstalling it later, with the risks of breaking something.

Hi All;
Yea, Chris, That has and is a concern of mine.. I guess I was happy that I was able to unsolder everything and have only one broken tab.. And my other concern is that either I might not get it wired correctly or loose a wire or two.. I guess that is part of the trade off, You cut them off on the top and leave the wiring or take them out and hope that the re-wiring is OK..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
Earlier today, I finished wiring ALL the Electrolytic caps up, (the last 6 wires), I have been doing them a little at a time, and as I have had the time and the energy, since being sick and just finished checking the Electrolytics with an ohm meter for correct connections, not for value.. :banana:
I have two resistors to put in (R186A, 93 ohms and R240, 12 ohms), before I can hook it up to the lightbulb and Variac, and see what the voltages look like.. I am trying to be extra cautious with both the bulb and the variac..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I have put in the two Resistors, And with both a Bulb and Variac, I have tried the unit.. The Output from the Transformer is fine, but I get really Low voltage, DC out.. From the Resistor Divider, So, I have Checked the voltage on the Rectifier tubes, still low.. Filaments show 3.4 Volts, after taking the Bulb out it was up to 4.7 volts.. So, next, I will Dis-connect the wire from pin 8 and see what the Rectifiers put out by themselves, If it is still Low, then I know it is my Tubes.. And not Bad load, somewhere else.. But, If it is Higher, then, something in the Cap or Load or the diviver section then something is most likely wired wrong..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
At 60 volts input and with the Bulb in place, I get 160 volts Dc Output on pin 8 of the Rectifier.. I have only one Rectifier tube in Place.. I will test each Rectifier individually.. This Proves that something is Bad, Somewhere down the line, from the Rectifier..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I have put in the two Resistors, And with both a Bulb and Variac, I have tried the unit.. The Output from the Transformer is fine, but I get really Low voltage, DC out.. From the Resistor Divider, So, I have Checked the voltage on the Rectifier tubes, still low.. Filaments show 3.4 Volts, after taking the Bulb out it was up to 4.7 volts..
With the Bulb out and full line voltage on the primary, what voltage are you seeing on the 6.3V heater supply? Is it signifigantly plus or minus a nominal 6.3 VAC?
...So, next, I will Dis-connect the wire from pin 8 and see what the Rectifiers put out by themselves,
Leave the first filter cap in-circuit so your meter will see pure DC. Or else it will read the averaged-out value of the supply (ie., it will read low). This is assuming you're using an analog meter. A digital meter will go nuts on unfiltered ripple voltage.
If it is still Low, then I know it is my Tubes.. And not Bad load, somewhere else.. But, If it is Higher, then, something in the Cap or Load or the diviver section then something is most likely wired wrong..
THANK YOU Marty
With no load, it will probably read signifigantly higher than nominal. But be sure the first filter cap is rated for the higher voltage.
As an alternative to leaving the first filter cap in-circuit, you could jumper in a cap temporarily. Anywhere upward 10 mf or so would be plenty (with adequate voltage rating).

Hi All;
Old Coot, Thanks for the input.. I have tried all three rectifier tubes by themselves.. At 60 volts plus Bulb input to the transformer, I get about 160 volts from the Rectifier tubes, each checked by itself.. This is with a DMM and no Cap.. There are no other tubes in the Set.. Don't want to create other unwanted problems.. So, next, I will do as you have suggested, Tieing on one cap and so forth at a time, until I find what is pulling things low.. But, this way, at least I know that it is not the Rectifier tube that was causing the problem.. Thanks for your help and suggestions.. More updates, as I work my way thru things.. In answer to your Heater voltage The 5U4 is a 5 Volt tube, and so my readings of 3.4 volts and 4.7 volts were for the Rectifier Tubes, not for the other Heaters, ever though I had in the past check the other Heater voltages before I plugged in the Rectifiers, and they were OK..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
Just a note, I am sure Glad that I used BOTH the Bulb and the Variac for my initial power up, I think it might have saved my Transformers butt as well as mine.. Since the Bulb was glowing brightly, yet not in later tests with just the Rectifier.. Which also shows it had too much load or short..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
Just a note, I am sure Glad that I used BOTH the Bulb and the Variac for my initial power up, I think it might have saved my Transformers butt as well as mine.. Since the Bulb was glowing brightly, yet not in later tests with just the Rectifier.. Which also shows it had too much load or short..
THANK YOU Marty
What wattage was the Bulb you were using? If it was low wattage (25 or 40 watt) it probably lit fairly bright from the heater load of all the tubes.
Typically, a 'dim bulb' setup will use bulbs of different wattages (something like 25, 40, 75, 100 and maybe 150). A high wattage bulb will barely glow (if at all) at normal current draw whereas lower wattage bulbs will glow brighter at normal draw.

Hi All;
Old Coot, I have been using a 40 Watt Bulb, But remember I stated I had only two tubes Plugged in Both 5U4's, and at present only One 5U4 is plugged in, I am working my way down the Cap and Choke coil and Cap line.. I am waitng for my Iron to warm up to take out another wire, so I only have Cap Choke and Cap hooked in..
THANK YOU Marty

Is there any chance one of the replacement electrolytics could've got installed backwards?
I been looking at the schematic posted by Vts1134 in another thread in another forum. Is this the same schematic you're using? If so, it incorrectly shows C220C with its negative side to ground and its positive side to the negative 100V supply rail. I.e., it's shown backward.
If connected as shown in the schematic, it would definitely be a problem.

Hi All;
Old Coot, Yes, it is the same Schematic.. I cannot take that Cap apart, again it would destroy it.. But, I can unwire that one from ground and install an external Cap.. All three Caps in that Can are wired with common Negative connection..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
All I have at present is one Electrolytic Cap that is 350 Volt at 10 MFD.. It calls for a 150 Volt at 80 MFD.. I could try the 10 MFD just to see If it makes any difference.. While disconnecting the one in the Can.. I am going to look at the old Can and see IF it has that one cap internally wired Backward in reference to the others..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
Old Coot, I just looked at the Can and it has (as near as I can tell) the negative as the common point.. I also, Just looked at the Sams and It also shows that the + (positive) side of that cap going to Ground..
On another Cap the (C225) on the Riders, When C225A is connected to Cap C221B, then the voltage goes LOW, about 45 volts at 120 volt input to the transformer, But when C225 is not connected to C221B, the the Voltage is about 230 volts, still slightly low, by 70 Volts, but that could just be my Rectifier, since they are all old Tubes.. So when C225 is connected either what is connected on the other side of it or the other Cap, Is pulling things down.. I have yet to disconnect the rest of the wires from C225 to see IF it has any affect on the Voltage Dropping..
THANK YOU Marty

..Yes, it is the same Schematic.. I cannot take that Cap apart, again it would destroy it.. But, I can unwire that one from ground and install an external Cap.. All three Caps in that Can are wired with common Negative connection..
If all three are wired with common negative, that would be correct. AND the common negative should be 'floating' above ground since it is the negative supply rail (or buss). It is floating and not shorted to ground, isn't it? Looks like it should show around 500-600 ohms to ground, with a bit of variation when you turn the focus control.
I just looked at the Can and it has (as near as I can tell) the negative as the common point.. I also, Just looked at the Sams and It also shows that the + (positive) side of that cap going to Ground..
Good. Then Sams has it correct.
On another Cap the (C225) on the Riders, When C225A is connected to Cap C221B, then the voltage goes LOW, about 45 volts at 120 volt input to the transformer, But when C225 is not connected to C221B, the the Voltage is about 230 volts, still slightly low, by 70 Volts, but that could just be my Rectifier, since they are all old Tubes.. So when C225 is connected either what is connected on the other side of it or the other Cap, Is pulling things down.. I have yet to disconnect the rest of the wires from C225 to see IF it has any affect on the Voltage Dropping..
Have you checked the Horz centering and Vert centering controls? Both should be 20 ohms according to the schematic. An open element in either one could really screw things up since they're both in series in the B+ chain feeding out to the 275V buss.

Um.. You are taking your voltage reading at the 275V source, right?

And another thought.. is the center tap of the power xfmr's HV winding connected to the common-negative 100V buss? In re-reading your thread, you mentioned some strangely low B+ readings coming out of the 5U4s. An unconnected or mis-connected center tap could do this.

Hi all;
Old Coot, I guess I am a little mixed up from your previous postings.. I take it that my Cap is OK, and NOT wired Backwards.. From what you have last written..
At present when I am measuring my voltages I have been measuring from Pin 8 of the 5U4 and not from the 275 Volt tap at present.. My DMM is attached to Chassis Ground on one side and pin 8 on the other side.. Since it is connected to something that is causing it to show a low value..
You, may be right in that it could be either Centering pot..
Tomorrow I plan on unhooking all the connections to the negative side and the other cap positive side, to see if the problem still exists, these seem to be the connections to the Centering pots.. Then connecting the other wires on till I find the Culprit that is bringing the whole system down.. This is before it even gets to the 275 Volt tap and so it still could be something that the Tap is tied to and not the centering pots.. So, I have alot of places to check..
And, Yes, the Center tap on the Transformer is connected to C221 Common can side, which is above and Isolated from ground..

...I take it that my Cap is OK, and NOT wired Backwards..
Yes, as long as C220C, the negative supply filter, has its positive end to ground, it is correct.
... At present when I am measuring my voltages I have been measuring from Pin 8 of the 5U4 and not from the 275 Volt tap at present.. My DMM is attached to Chassis Ground on one side and pin 8 on the other side..
This is with nothing else (except the filament) connected to pin 8, right?
As mentioned earlier, the meter has to see pure, filtered DC in order to get an accurate reading of the B+ coming out of the 5U4. You mentioned having a 10mf/350V cap available. Did you try jumpering it between pin 8 and ground? This would allow the meter to give a pure, no-load DC reading.
..And, Yes, the Center tap on the Transformer is connected to C221 Common can side, which is above and Isolated from ground..
Good. And what is the resistance from that point to ground? It should be the additive resistances of the focus coil, ion trap coil, and bleeder string R185a, R186a, and R186b. It looks like around 500 - 600 ohms. And it should vary slightly with turning the focus control. Does it?

As far as the V and H centering pots, it should take only a few seconds to check 'em with with an ohmeter (on the RX1 scale).

But the very first thing is to establish how much juice is coming out of the 5U4 pin 8.

Hi All;
Old Coot, The Cap C220C is wired Correctly, Thank You for the clearification..
I have (for now) a wire connected to the 5U4 Pin 8 which goes to the meter.. Pin 8 is also connected to C221A, C220A, C220C, as well as the field coil, which connects to C221B at present and with one rectifier tube in gives a voltage of 230 Volts.. I had at first nothing connected to the 5U4, but right after checking that I connected back C221A and after working my way thru the field coil connections It also was then connected, along with the related caps.. So I didn't connect in the 10MFD 350 volt cap, since I had the others in.. I had only suggested it as a sub for C220C if it was backwards, which it is not..
At present the Centering pots and the focus coil are not connected to it.. I have not measured the Resistance in them, yet, But I can do that after I finish this posting..
I have been trying to work my way thru each wire and each section one at a time.. I have at present as stated above 230 Volts and that is without the focus coil and the Resistor dividers and the Centering pots..
I next want to put in C222A and make sure it is OK, I also will put in the Second Rectifier tube to see if the Initial voltage coming out of the Tubes will increase with the addition of the second tube.. And then I can see what I can do with C225A and C225B..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
Old Coot, With the second Rectifier plugged in the Voltage dropped to 200 Volts on pin 8.. And the Bulb lit up.. I took out the Bulb and left the rest the same, it now reads 270 Volts at pin 8.. Which is close to the 300 volts specified, for that pin..
So now my Question, Should I leave out the Bulb or for safety sake keep it in for the present while I am testing ???
THANK YOU Marty

...I have been trying to work my way thru each wire and each section one at a time.. I have at present as stated above 230 Volts and that is without the focus coil and the Resistor dividers and the Centering pots..
???Are you saying the focus coil and resistors R185a, R186a, R186b are not in-circuit? If so, then there is no path to ground for the center tap of the power xfmr. The CT has to have a path to ground before the 5U4 can supply the correct B+ voltage. Or is the focus coil simply unplugged, leaving R182, R183, and the focus control still in-circuit?

Again, what is the resistance between the power xfmr CT and ground?
...With the second Rectifier plugged in the Voltage dropped to 200 Volts on pin 8.. And the Bulb lit up.. I took out the Bulb and left the rest the same, it now reads 270 Volts at pin 8.. Which is close to the 300 volts specified, for that pin..
Probably the filament load of the second 5U4 lugged the primary down, lighting the Bulb and dropping the secondary voltages.
So now my Question, Should I leave out the Bulb or for safety sake keep it in for the present while I am testing ???
For now, leave the Bulb in, stay with a single 5U4 until you find out the resistance between the power xfmr CT and ground.

Once you verify the CT has the proper path to ground, stick both 5U4s in and get rid of the Bulb, and bring the primary up slowly toward full line voltage while monitoring the B+ at pin 8 (being sure not to exceed voltage rating of the new filters).

Hi All;
Old Coot, again you are right, I have NO resistance from the Center tap of the transformer to ground.. I didn't notice their relationship, while taking things out.. I am in the process of measuring these for a resistance value.. Both the Horizontal and Vertical Pots measure about 20 ohms and the wipers work in both of them.. Then I will connect the ion coil and the focus coil and let you know what changes..
THANK YOU marty

Hi All;
Good News, I measured the Ion Trap Coil with the 56 ohm resistor accross it and got 22.9 ohms, just like Bob did.. The Focus coil measures about 240 ohms.. And After connecting that part of the circuit up.. I GOT on pin 8 of the Rectifier 330 Volts with the Variac set at 60 Volts, I didn't dare take it up any further..
Now to connect the 275 Volt voltage divider circuit and see what happens..
THANK YOU Marty

Say hey!:banana::banana: Good goin' amigo. :music::tresbon:

Hi All;
More good news, I hooked up the 275 Volt lead, and at pin 8 of the rectifier, I get 302 Volts, with the Variac set at 115 volts and the Bulb lit anyway.. With one rectifier tube.. Special Thanks to Old Coot.. Now for another wire the one going to C223A..
THANK YOU Marty

Geister,
It might help to simplify what's going on in that circuit. It uses what's called a 'back bias' scheme to generate negative voiltages for various other circuits in the chassis. It's used extensively in '30s radios with power trannys and in a lot of early TVs.

First visualize the CT of the HV winding going directly to ground, and the rectifier tube putting out full B+. Now visualize a resistor from the CT to ground. As the rest of the tubes pull current, a voltage is developed across that resistor, and it's negative with respect to ground. The resistor can then be tapped (or a daisy chain of resistors used) to obtain specific negative voltges.

Hi All;
I got all the wires hooked up.. And it didn't drag anything down, which is the good news.. With one Rectifier tube and the 40 watt light bulb in series after the Variac.. Here is what my readings show, the bulb is dimly light..
105 volts on the Variac
Rectifier pin 8 307 volts, shows on schematic +300 volts
275+ divider tap 238 volts
135+ divider tap 185 volts
-100 on cap -13 volts
-18 on divider tap -5 volts
-2 0n divider tap -.5 volt

THANK YOU Marty

Lookin' good. At this point you could get rid of the Bulb, and start putting all the tubes back in except the horz output, watching the B+ reading as you add tubes.
As more and more tubes pull current and load the power supply, the B+ should come down and the negative supply rail should come up (though it probably won't show the full -100V yet).

Finally if all's well at full line voltage, add the H output tube, being ready to shut the set off quickly if needed. Hold an insulated screwdriver next to the 1B3's plate connector and see if you can draw an arc. It should draw a healthy 'air arc' of a quarter inch or more, proving the H output and fly are running. If no arc, shut 'er down.

Hi All;
Will DO, I will let you know what the result is.. THANK YOU to OLD COOT again.. :banana: :banana:

THANK YOU Marty

Marty,
Kind of cool to see you getting the 630 up and running
I look forward to seeing a picture on the set. I will try and drop
the cabinet off sometime in the near future.
Mike

Hi All;
Thank You Mike.. :banana:
As I write this I am going to Bring the set up with its tubes, except for the Horizontal Output Tube and the Picture Tube..
At 110 volts on the variac, I get the following
+275 on the divider I get 275 Volts
+135 on the divider I get +133 Volts
-18 on the divider I get -19
-2 on the divider I get -2.1
IT WORKS !!!!!
Next the horizontal tube..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
The same as last time, I am going to bring it up with the Variac..
With all tubes except for the Picture Tube.. I have my Ponoma Meter attached to the Anode wire..
Here goes -- at 100 volts on the Variac I get 8K volts..
at 115 volts on the variac I get 9K volts..
Next is the 5" Picture tube..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I have a 4" purple round spot.. And on one channel I get NPR News, so sound works.. I haven't connected my B&K, as I have to put the 5" tube back in it to make my 1077B workable.. And then use a regular 10BP4 Picture Tube..
And this is before I replace any regular caps..
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
THANK YOU Marty

Speakin' of replacing caps, the very first ones that should be replaced are the coupling caps going to the control grid (G1) of the H output tube, Vert.output tube, and audio output tube (in that order). Any leakage in a coupling cap will push the grid more positive, making the tube overconduct.. which is bad news in a power tube.

Once the power tubes are happy, then go ahead with the rest of the caps, powering the set up after each replacement to watch improvements. I would resume with the coupling cap going to G1 of the video output tube.

Hi All;
I put in the 10BP4 and at 90 volts on the variac, I smelled something and the Horizontal tube started to turn purple, and my Roomate saw some sparks looking from on top, down underneath the High Voltage Section.. So I pulled the Plug on it.. I will take out the 10BP4 later, and look underneath it next time I get a chance, take a look see..
THANK YOU Marty

Not sure which "underneath" you mean, but my 630TS had arcing under the little platform that holds the 1B3GT rectifier tube:

http://antiqueradio.org/art/RCA630TS30.jpg

It's worth cleaning that entire area with isopropyl alcohol, whether or not that's the immediate source of arcing.

This article has other restoration notes that may be helpful in a general way:

http://antiqueradio.org/RCA630TSTelevision.htm

Regards,

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

Hi All;
Yes, Phil, that will be on my list of things to check next.. I was kind of hoping thst it might somewhat work before checking that area.. And it did work on the 5" Picture Tube.. So I am Very Happy, with it.. I may have some work tomorrow, so it might be a day or two before I get back to it.. By underneath I mean the bottom side of the chassis, where all of the Resistors and capacitors are hiding (lurking), so approximately underneath the 5V4 area..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I have the day to work on the set, work has been postponed to next week depending on the weather.. I took a look at the underside of the 1B3 and other than plenty of dust, it seems OK, I measured both resistors the 3.3 measures 3.6 and the 1 Meg measures .936 Meg.. Cleaned with brush first and then with a q-tip and 99% Alcohol.. Alot better now..
I made another Critical Mistake, while cleaning the Fly-back of dust and dirt, I broke the small wire that eventually goes to the Top of the 1B3.. :tears:
I can't find the Asprin Trick posting for taking off the insulation.. Does anyone know where the link to it is ?? I hope to slightly lengthen it using wire-wrap wire (30 ga).. THANK YOU !!
My roomate thought the sparks that he saw were coming off the back (inside of the chassis) of the 110 volt power plug.. Could it be the two caps tied there, or maybe just too much dirt and old dust ??
Also, don't know if its related but the 6BG6 had a purple glow to it, maybe it is gassy, or just bad, any ideas ??
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I am going to the store and get some Hight Voltage Corona Dope, as my old bottle of it is all dried up.. The top of the fly-back has some (along with the wire) burnt places, from arching, even inside of the Spegetti tubing around the wire.. So I will be gone for a bit.. What kind of wire is coming out of the fly-back ??
THANK YOU Marty

Marty,
The aspirin trick is here, beginning with post #26 ..
http://videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=257295&page=2
If you're dealing with a tiny stub of wire sticking out of the flyback tire, it'd take a bit of improvisation to get the stub immersed in the hot acid. Or maybe you could swab it on with a toothpick while still hot.

The arcing and simultaneous blue flashing in the 6BG6 are probably related. The overload imposed by the arcing could have caused the blue flashing, and the tube may still be OK. No guarantees though.

Hi All;
I'm back, got the dope.. I am going to first try with just the Iron on the end of the stub, for now there is about an inch of wire coming out of the fly-back, the lower half of that inch is burnt black and the end might be semi clean just dirty..
Old Coot, I am wondering If you could tell me what would be the causes of the 6BG6 going purple, and the arching, Once I know what type of things to look for I hopefully can better asses what or where the problem might be.. Such as too much current draw, but WHY is it drawing too much current ?? and etc.. Also, I may as well test the fly-back resistance readings.. Will, let you know on the next posting what I find.. I hope that It isn't a semi-bad fly-back..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I got the wire to take some solder, after using the asprin trick, (sure does smell, and lots of smoke) I lengthened it with some 30 ga wire-wrap wire.. I am also glad I got some dope, it will need a good coating of it.. I measured the Fly-back, and it measres fine.. Doesn't guarantee its good, but hopefully its ok..
I'LL try it on with the chassis upside down, using the 5" tube, to see IF I can see what is possibly arching underneath.. I just noticed that this set has a Horizontal Drive Control pot, maybe its set too high.. I'll give it a try as soon as I locate it on the back of the set..
THANK YOU Marty

If you bring it up slowly on the variac, you should be able to spot the arc when it first starts. Be sure and watch the 6BG6 all the while for any misbehavior.

It might be less cumbersome to omit the picture tube while arc hunting.

Any chance you could post pictures?

Hi All;
Old Coot, I would be glad to post pictures, but the limitations of the file size has made it so I can't fit the picture file size in.. I have not in the past been able to reduce the size and still have any picture..
I thought I had to have the picture tube in for the problem to occur, but based on your answer, I will try it with out, as it would be much easier to do..
THANK YOU Marty

As long as the yoke remains in-circuit, the sweep circuits don't need the CRT connected. (This would not be the case with a series-string set where the CRT heater is part of the string.)

Hi All;
Old Coot, Thanks for hanging in there with me.. I have powered up the set, and slowly brought it up to 110 Volts on the Variac.. No Arching and no turning purple on the 6BG6.. I did measure the voltage on the Anode wire and my tongue went out 6" when the horizontal drive control was in one position and at the opposite end it went out 9".. Or would you believe on the meter it was 6KV and 9KV..
I am not completely sure why, but my best guess, is while fixing both the wire and the top of the fly-back, I may have eliminated a source of either arching or excessive current draw.. I used two coats of dope syrup.. The chassis is on its side at present, and I will put it back to normal Position after this posting message and put in the 5" Picture Tube and see if things are still the same..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I Got Picture with the 5" Picture Tube, I need to get something with a picture, before I can for sure tell what I have on the screen.. I can tell there is at leat something going on.. I think I am seeing at some raster and some trace back (I can't think of the correct name).. But there is no Arching and no purple horizontal tube.. I will try the 10BP4 and find out IF that is or may be the problem or the cause of the problem.. I am listening to the news while I am typing this from the TV..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
It looks like the 10BP4 that came with this set is no good.. I will need to check further, but after about 5 minutes of being on, the Picture Tube is still cold, and everything else nice and toasty.. But the good news is that there is no Arching and no purple horizontal tube.. :banana:
I will need to dig out the 8T243 and borrow its 10BP4 Picture Tube..
THANK YOU marty

Marty,
Check the pins on the crt I tested it before I dropped the chassis off to you and the crt showed good emission. I hope it didn't lose vacuum, maybe the pins on the crt have intermittent connection. I enjoy following your progress on the tv.
Mike

When you say the pic tube is still cold, does that mean the heater is not lit?:saywhat:The CRT neck does not run hot at all compared to the power tubes, damper and 5U4 which opererate under heavy current and run very hot.

If you're not getting a raster, have you adjusted the ion trap to find the elusive 'sweet spot' that makes the raster appear? If not, Rotate the trap around a full 360 degrees, slide it forward and back, and if nothing appears, swap it end for end and repeat.
Even if the CRT has weak emission you should stiil get a visible raster since the little tube made a raster.

Hi All;
I got the 10BP4 from the other set and I now have Raster and some retrace lines.. So I just thought I will try my VHS Tape player and see IF I can get anything from it..
THANK YOU Marty

***OOPs! Double post. Dumb, dumb.

Hi All;
On the old CRT it is cold, meaning that as fas as I can tell there is no filament.. And on the One good 10BP4 CRT that I have I have raster and I already knew about the Ion Trap adjustment, which also means that my Ion Trap coil is good.. I have tried the VHS Tape player and I have sound, and no picture as of yet, But tomorrow or way later tonight I will try adjusting things to see what I can get..
THANK YOU Marty

Try flowing solder into the heater pins (pins 1 and 12, either side of the key slot). But clean the solder off the outside of the pins real good so it doesn't bind going into the socket.

Hi All;
Old Coot, Thanks for the advice, I have a Video by "Admiral" Bob about resurrecting old CRT's, that I will use as a guide..
I also, tomorrow will need to get out my B&K 415 and also my B&K 1077b.. And put the 5" Picture Tube back in the 1077b and get it working again, So I can use it to see what sections work and what does not..
Thank You for your Help.. I don't know how many of the others appreciate your Advice and Help, but I do !!!!
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I got my B&K 1077b back together and I hooked it up to my small Color TV, just to make sure that it is working, before I try it on the 630.. Now to find a good B&K 415 and test it.. I have been busy most of the Day doing other things.. Now back to TV things..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I got the B&K 1077b hooked up to the 630, found where on the tuner it is by the sound, listening for the tone from the B&K.. No Picture, I will look at the manual, for the 1077b and start from the picture tube (grid) going back until I find the next problem.. tomorrow..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I have a room full of smoke.. Two resistors burned up.. Need to find out IF I have something wired wrong, either to the Electrolytic or the internals of the cap.. Or the External wires to the Cap or drawing too much current or wrong size (wattage) of the resistors.. The Cap is C223, the two resistors are R140 (3300) and R141 (6800).. Which is right in the area of where I have my Suspect bad socket and trouble.. 1ST Video Amp.. (6AU6)
THANK YOU Marty

...I have a room full of smoke.. Two resistors burned up.. Need to find out IF I have something wired wrong, either to the Electrolytic or the internals of the cap.. Or the External wires to the Cap or drawing too much current or wrong size (wattage) of the resistors.. The Cap is C223, the two resistors are R140 (3300) and R141 (6800).. Which is right in the area of where I have my Suspect bad socket and trouble.. 1ST Video Amp.. (6AU6)
Well tarnation. A sudden-onset direct short from pin 5 (plate) to ground would definitely fry those two resistors. The short could be either in the tube or the socket (possibly a char track inside the socket). You mentioned using alcohol for cleaning. Drug store alcohol (either isopropyl or "rubbing" type) contains signifigant water which if not completely dry, could cause an arc and burn a char path very quickly.

It's very unlikely C223(b) is involved. If it had shorted, only R141 would have fried, leaving R140 unaffected. That tells you the short has to be 'downstream' of R140.

With the tube pulled, and with R140 disconnected, put your ohmeter (on highest ohms scale) on pin 5. It should show infinite resistance (open circuit) to ground. Any measurable leakage would be a fault condition.

WOOPs! Error (sound of klaxon)..
The 6AU6 plate connection "Pin 3" in the foregoing post should be pin 5
Sorry for the goof.
:o

Hi All;
I used 99% alcohol, but I think it might have been the other stuff I tried to used that might have done the trick (possible short).. Old Coot, No problem for the mistakes, I make plenty of my own.. Yes, I will ohm it, as well as check all the other surrounding components.. Thank You, Old Coot for the circuit analysis, I sure wish I had your ability.. Anything else that sticks out that I should look at ??
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I measured Pin 5 to ground its OK.. But, the look of pins 7, 4, 2, and 1 don't look so good, I can't at this point tell IF it is from what I did, or just old gunk on the bottom of the sockets after spraying the tube and socket..
THANK YOU Marty

..I measured Pin 5 to ground its OK.. But, the look of pins 7, 4, 2, and 1 don't look so good, I can't at this point tell IF it is from what I did, or just old gunk on the bottom of the sockets after spraying the tube and socket..
It's doubtful that visible gunk outside the socket would cause any problem. But a char path inside the socket wouldn't be visible. Pin 5 is immediately adjacent to pin 4 (heater) and this small separation could provide an arc path, since the heaters are tied to ground.

Even though pin 5 showed no leakage to ground on the ohmeter, i would try "zapping" it briefly with full B+ to see if an arc develops. Use a current limiting resistor (value not critical, 4.7K or thereabouts) and jumper it briefly from pin 5 to the filament (pin 8) of the 5U4. If an arc should develop in the 6AU6 socket, it'll be instantly visible.

Gads, talk about me overlooking the obvious. Have you checked the 6AU6 for shorts? The schematic shows the suppressor grid (G3) connected directly to ground. A G3-to-plate short would certainly fry those two resistors.
G3 and the plate are physically adjacent inside the tube, making them quite vulnerable to shorting.

Hi All;
Old Coot, I'LL check both the tube and the various connections of the Tube.. The Tube was a NOS (1971).. But, I guess it could be shorted, either internal or external.. I am done for the Day, But, I will hopefully check it monday.. If there is no work.. I have a whole list of things to check.. Thank You..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
While I am at it, should I spark, with 300+ volts, pins 6, 5 and 1.. I have disconnected the parts from these pins..
Pins 2, 3 and 7 are ground, and pin 4 is the other filament connection.. So these last four connections would not get sparked.. Pin 4 shows a resistance reading of .1 on the Sams, and I have .6 on it to ground (pin7)..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I Just got a Junk chassis only 8TS30 for parts and to compare connections in all the Electrolytics and also in the Video section, which is attached to an electrolytic..
The only difference that I see between the two is that the 8TS30 used a Choke and its bigger.. And the 630TS uses a Field Coil.. Tube placement looks the same as well as what and where the Electrolytic caps are located..
THANK YOU Marty

I've been following along with your progress and I don't recall any mention of replacing the paper caps. Are you running it on the originals ?

Hi All;
Bandersen, Yes, as that is the next big expense, I knew it might have some that were bad, but, I have always brought it up with the Variac.. And so far they seem to be ok.. I know that the problem with Video section might be the caps.. I just Re-looked at the schematic and If either is shorted there could be a path to ground.. And of course cap leakage..
THANK YOU Marty

I was goin' on the assumption you had replaced the caps. For the present issue with the video, at bare minimum you should change the grid coupling caps C138, C140, C141 and C142. They're all .05 (or .047).

Hi All;
No, I had always said electrolytics, couldn't aford to do both at the same time.. That is the next thing to do, I need to make a list of what I need and find them.. Not sure if Mouser or Digikey or Allied.. Will need to compare prices.. Does anyone have any suggestions as to who has the bast quality and prices ??
THANK YOU Marty

I measured all of my 630TS paper caps for value and leakage current. Out of 35 paper caps I only found 4 with no leakage current and also within 50% of their marked value. Only one had no leakage and close to its marked value. So yeah, you REALLY want to replace all the paper caps!

Dave

Hi All;
Yea, I wish I could do everything at once, I try to plan ahead and get what I think I need in the next couple of week or month or two.. I have plans for some test equipment that I need from one of the members, I also am hoping to do some trading for some Tubes that I need, and I need the Paper Caps.. Just can't do all of that at once.. I can only do so much each month.. I did get that 8TS30 for shipping, but that was money I had planned on for other things.. So, everything takes time for me..
THANK YOU Marty

I know it's hard to be patient, but I would set this TV aside until you can replace the paper caps. It is a losing game to chase individual problems when the TV still contains dozens of defective capacitors. You don't want to burn up any more stuff.

Just my $0.02.

Phil Nelson

Hi All;
No, I had always said electrolytics, couldn't aford to do both at the same time.. That is the next thing to do, I need to make a list of what I need and find them.. Not sure if Mouser or Digikey or Allied.. Will need to compare prices.. Does anyone have any suggestions as to who has the bast quality and prices ??
THANK YOU Marty

Those three vendors are fine in general, but have a limited selection of axial film capacitors and they are on the expensive side. Just Radios (http://www.justradios.com/orderform.html) is a popular choice for inexpensive axial caps.

Here's a quick check I did for Axial 0.047 @ 630v (one of the most used values)

Just Radio - $0.46
Allied - $0.48
Mouser - $0.79
Digi-Key - $2.02

That's assuming you want to use axial and not something like radial Sprague orange drops.

Hi All;
Thank You Bob, that is the kind of information that I need..
I need to go thru the parts list and find the different values and how many I need.. I figure it would be easier and cheaper with shipping, to get them all at once.. Yea, I could get a dozen .05's or .047's, and get them here quite soon.. But, I would need all the rest.. On the other hand, getting small batches, would mean getting some each week or so.. I will look at what is needed then decide..
THANK YOU Marty

Marty,
Just a little tip on paper caps and the criticality of leakage. The most critical is a grid coupling cap feeding G1 of a power stage from the plate of a preceding stage. Because the plate is positive, any leakage of DC thru the cap will drive the power tube's grid more positive, causing the tube to overconduct. Since power tubes already run hot, thay have little 'headroom' for overcurrent.

In your set, the most critical coupling caps (in descending order) would be C178, feeding the grid of the 6BG6.

C157, feeding the grid of the vert output

C208, feeding the grid of the audio output

then the four caps in the video chain mentioned earlier

then any bypass caps along a B+ line or on a tube's screen grid (G2). And any bypass caps along the AGC (or 'picture control') line.

lastly, any bypass caps having a low resistance in parallel, such as a cathode bypass.

So if you elect to replace caps in batches, that's a general guideline that'd apply to other sets as well.

Hi All;
Thank You, Old Coot !! I am about to make a first list and this is Just what I needed to know.. That way I can continue on.. I think for now, I will skip the RF and IF sections, and concentrate on the rest.. Thank you for the guidelines, this alone makes the posting all worth it..
THANK YOU Marty

...I am about to make a first list and this is Just what I needed to know.. That way I can continue on.. I think for now, I will skip the RF and IF sections, and concentrate on the rest..
Even if you elect to do those last, it probably wouldn't hurt to clip an end of each one loose temporarily and check it for leakage. That'd give you a gauge of their overall condition, and also catch any on the B+ line or AGC* line with serious leakage.

*Actually, "AGC" (for automatic gain control) is a bit of a misnomer in this instance, because gain control is not automatic at all but purely manual via the 'picture' control. It requires you to adjust gain with varying signal strength. It's just part of the charm of these old sets, like riding the gain on an old TRF radio.

Hi All;
Old Coot, I have an old Capacitor checker made by Solar, but it hasn't had its caps checked or changed, nor has it had its tubes checked.. So, IF this Cap checker, is not functional at present, Is there another way to check for Leakage ??
I have decided to make a list of everything and see what the prices are, and then IF I need to I can par down..
Bob Andersen, When you got Caps for your 630, What did you use for your Mica caps ?? Was it Mica or something newer ??
I also assume that just a number is a Mica cap in Picofarads, am I correct ?? Like 1200..
THANK YOU Marty

I didn't get mica caps, just replacements for the paper. Mica caps are far more reliable than paper. I think Ive only replaced three or four so far in TVs. I'll check them only if I have problems after replacing all the other caps.

...I have an old Capacitor checker made by Solar, but it hasn't had its caps checked or changed, nor has it had its tubes checked.. So, IF this Cap checker, is not functional at present, Is there another way to check for Leakage ??
You can use a multimeter, VTVM, or VOM on the high ohms scale. It won't test for capacitance value or breakdown voltage, but is a quickie method of checking for leakage.

In grid coupling caps and in bypass applications you want to see infinite resistance, but in cathode bypass applications where there's a low resistance in parallel with the cap, a little leakage wouldn't hurt anything.

Hi All;
Thank You both, that Helps alot, By not getting Mica's, it cuts down on what I need to get..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I just placed an order with Mouser for the most popular sizes that they had.. The rest I will get from Justradios, (Mostly Orange drops) they are closed for now, so it will be about a week or two before I place an order with them to get the rest of what I need..
What they aren't here yet !! I guess, I'LL have to wait for them to arrive..
THANK YOU Marty

Before you place that order keep in mind that Just Radios doesn't have Sprague "orange drops", they have "orange dips". Not the same thing at all :no: Also, those "dips" are radial and not so easy to use as the long lead length "Tubular Axials".

Here's a picture from left to right - Sprague orange drop, orange dip, generic yellow poly axial and the more expensive name brand (Mallory) caps Mouser sells.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8251/8553153360_53018cd6d3_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/8553153360/)

Still curious as to whut shorted and took out those two resistors.

:saywhat::saywhat:

Hi All;
Bob, I'm a little confused then.. What and where did you get the caps needed for the 630 ?? Most of the caps I ordered from Mouser were only the more popular variants.. How and who do I get what is really called for in the 630 ??
From what I see, I need .1, .01, .015, .025, .035, .05, .002, .0025 .004, .005, and 6500, 1500, 1200, 1000, 680, 470, 390, 270, 82, 75, 56, 51, 47, 43, 33, 10..
I got .047, .01, .024, .02, .0039, 1500pf, 1200pf, 1000pf and I am not even sure they were the correct ones..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
OLD COOT, So am I !!!!
I hopefully got some .047 caps coming and so I can put the ones affecting that section in and see if it helps..
My roomate doesn't care for a Trailer full of smoke.. And neither do I..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
OLD COOT, So am I !!!!
I hopefully got some .047 caps coming and so I can put the ones affecting that section in and see if it helps..
My roomate doesn't care for a Trailer full of smoke.. And neither do I..
THANK YOU Marty

Back in the 70's, my trailer was always full of smoke! :D :smoke:

Hi All;
Dangler, How did you get the air cleared and the smell gone ?? It took about 2 or 3 days to get things back to normal.. Of course we have had a few days of cold winter weather.. And couldn't leave the front door open for very long..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
Bob, I'm a little confused then.. What and where did you get the caps needed for the 630 ?? Most of the caps I ordered from Mouser were only the more popular variants.. How and who do I get what is really called for in the 630 ??
From what I see, I need .1, .01, .015, .025, .035, .05, .002, .0025 .004, .005, and 6500, 1500, 1200, 1000, 680, 470, 390, 270, 82, 75, 56, 51, 47, 43, 33, 10..
I got .047, .01, .024, .02, .0039, 1500pf, 1200pf, 1000pf and I am not even sure they were the correct ones..
THANK YOU Marty


Oh, you just round to the nearest modern value. e.g .022, .033, .047, .022, .0022, .0047 etc. Those old caps had a wide tolerance and these modern values are plenty close enough.

Also, all these are ceramic or mica and probably don't need replacing. 6500, 1500, 1200, 1000, 680, 470, 390, 270, 82, 75, 56, 51, 47, 43, 33, 10..

Hi All;
Dangler, How did you get the air cleared and the smell gone ?? It took about 2 or 3 days to get things back to normal.. Of course we have had a few days of cold winter weather.. And couldn't leave the front door open for very long..
THANK YOU Marty

Didn't really want to....unless the cops showed up! :D :smoke:

Hi All;
I used the Variac and took it up to 140 Volts and used the 300 Volt tie point right before the choke and used that connection to temporarily shorted pins 1 and 5 and 6 of the Socket for the 1st Video Tube a 6AU6, with everything disconnected from those pins except for the socket.. It seemed fine, no sparks, nor anything, so I think there are no shorts to those pins, especially to ground.. Now to put it all back together..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I used the Variac and took it up to 140 Volts and used the 300 Volt tie point right before the choke and used that connection to temporarily shorted pins 1 and 5 and 6 of the Socket for the 1st Video Tube a 6AU6, with everything disconnected from those pins except for the socket.. It seemed fine, no sparks, nor anything, so I think there are no shorts to those pins, especially to ground.. Now to put it all back together..
THANK YOU Marty

Hah. By that account the socket is OK. The only thing left is the tube itself. I take it you don't have a tube tester?:saywhat: If not, try this..
Connect everything back to the socket except pin 5. Put the tube in the socket. Take a 10K resistor (or some value in that ballpark) and clip one end to pin 5 and the other end to the 275V source.
Consider that resistor sacrificial, because if the tube shorts, it will quickly fry the resistor in lieu of frying the resistors R140 and R141 which got smoked originally.

Hi All;
I have it all back together, I didn't see Your posting (Old Coot) in time, I first took it up to 110 without the tube in it.. I have put the tube back in and have it up to 110 volts, checking the temperature of the two resistors, at each intervil.. Both resistors are (for now) nice and cool..
I do have a tube tester, But, I am suspisious of it at present..
I can tomorrow, put the other resistor in and leave it that way for awhile, as a way to check it out for a longer period of time..
I have the chassis upside down for now and no picture tube nor high voltage, I pulled the 6BG6, for now..
THANK YOU Marty

Dang mystery short. Wunner if it coulda been a tin whisker that was cleared by all the futzing with the socket. Back in the day, tin whisker problems were unheard of. Stuff wasn't old enuff to grow whiskers.
:D

Hi All;
Old Coot, It could have also been wire wisker, as all of the wires on all of the caps had been taken off and put back in, or even a stray piece of loose solder.. I still plan for a awhile do as you suggested and put in the 10K resistor.. Just in case and also to see if anything shows up..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I have put in the 10K resistor, as per Old Coot's suggestion.. I have powered the set up, with the Picture Tube in.. I get something, and I can make the Vertical lock in, with adjusting of the Vertical Hold Control.. The Horizontal, will maybe not lock in, with adjusting the Horizontal Hold Control, but the Picture is Smeared.. So, I think it might be close.. I will need to look up in my books on smearing pictures.. If my books suggest that it is a Cap issue, then I know I will need to wait till, I get them all replaced.. And then figure out IF it might be another control, that needs to be tweeked..
I KNOW that I am still waiting for the Caps to come and , also order the rest of what I don't have.. So, I can replace the necessary paper caps.. But, it seems to be working better than before.. Had work today and tomorrow, so next week on ordering the rest of the Cap parts..
THANK YOU Marty

By now it's probably safe to assume the short whatever it was, is gone. I would go ahead and hook pin 5 back up as original. With the temporary 10K in there, a couple of peaking coils and electrolytic C223B are out of circuit. This could be making the video a bit wonky.

Hi All;
Right now, what I have is the 10K, by-passing R140 and C223B and R141.. The Peaking coils are in there as well as C140.. I did it this way since it seemed to work, before I read your earlier posting.. I thought that, as you had said replacing one resistor instead of two resistors would be easier and simplifier.. I figure that leaving it this way for awhile, just to make sure would be ok, as I have not run it for a real long time as of yet.. The last time , when it burned up, it had been on for awhile, and I have as of yet to work up to that kind of time, being on.. And YES, I do bring it up using the Variac.. And Thank You (Old Coot) for sharing with us who don't know your experience in TV Repair, from your other posting..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I have looked up my Smearing problem in my Book.. And from the Tuner up to the Sync it is mostly Tuning and or adjusting.. It seems that the Video section is the most likely suspect and then the Sync section.. In Both sections it suggest checking Caps for Leakage, over or under value, Load Resistors changing value, and Peaking coils changed to larger or smaller or open.. So, I need to wait for the Caps to come in as this is the most likely cause..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
Right now, what I have is the 10K, by-passing R140 and C223B and R141.. The Peaking coils are in there as well as C140.. I did it this way since it seemed to work.... I thought that, as you had said replacing one resistor instead of two resistors would be easier and simplifier.. I figure that leaving it this way for awhile, just to make sure would be ok....
At this point, you'd be better off to restore the circuit as original, since the designers did it that way for a reason.
Our one-resistor shortcut was only to simplify hunting the "mystery short" in the tube socket. But now you want the circuit to behave as designed, ie., with C223B "clamping" the junction of R140/R141.

Hi All;
I got some of the Caps on saturaday.. If I don't have to go to work, I will take out the 10K resistor and put it back as per origional, along with changing out the .05 caps..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I have started to change out the caps..
I have also noticed, that my 630 is an early Version.. On the three terminals on the back, mine has two caps and a resistor, for the Sync modification, where as the 8TS30 has the one Cap in the 1st Video section.. Also on the Sams there is a Tie on point for a couple of Caps that I don't have.. I am not saying that they don't exist, but they are wired somewhere else.. I am also going to check that the compensating cap for the 1st Video and see if it is in the circuit..
THANK YOU Marty

well ive been there and there is alot of those caps so be real careful replacing them, one at a time. i have a 1947 fada that uses the same chassis and i changed every cap except the domino micas, but did replace a verticle mica cap for the timing as well as another i think it was around the 6sn7 tube for the horizontal. and of course the electrolytics. i did place 2 caps in the wrong place at the 6sn7 and ultimately because of probing to find out what i have done as far as a mistake i burned the power transformer out. but i found a nos for 60.00 put it in look for my mistake fixed it and this set today works like new. so dont do what i have done, take your time its worth it in the end.

Hi All;
Timmy, I plan on doing a few caps at a time, then testing it.. Before going to the next group of caps.. Hopefully, It will make finding mistakes alot easier..
THANK YOU Marty

oh just keep in mind that when you clip one and turn for a moment and dont remember what end goes where then its trouble but if you have the sams like i have then it makes it easy if things go wrong and you supect you maybe put something somewhere else by accident. in my case what happened was my daughter was asking me something and this triggered what happened to me with 2 caps being put in the wrong place which had to do with horizontal frequency and a blue glowing hot. this drove me nuts but i looked back on the sams and wow there it was. good luck with the 630

Hi All;
Timmy, Thanks for the warning.. My biggest problem with the Sams is since mine is a copy, and my eyesight isn't that great, I have trouble seeing those little details.. Like where wires go or are attached..
I have an 8TS30, that I use for comparison and the Ryders..
This set didn't have any compensation Cap on the 1st Video Amp, so I took it from the 830.. I am just about to try it for the second time today.. I have 6 (each) .047 Caps done as of now..
Its a little better each time I try it.. Still has smearing issues.. But I can make it lock and unlock , (I think) in both Vertical and Horizontal.. Its possible in the sync sections or still in the video sections.. I have some other Caps on order and they will not be here for a week or so..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
This is the longest that the set has been on !!
I put a Video signal on the connector on the back, part of the Horiz. Sync Discrimiter.. I origionally thought it was part of the Sync Amp.. And I got some picture .. :banana: Its a mess, but it is Video !!!
I need most likely to replace the Sync Integrator Caps and Resistors, when they come in from Mouser.. I will look at the 1st and 2nd Sync Amps and the Sync Seperator and see If there is any other Caps that I have at the present that I can replace now..
THANK YOU Marty

By golly sounds like she's gettin' there. :yes: It might be s good idea, especially when replacing resistors, to power the set up after each replacement. If a resistor happened to be off value by a single decimal place, it can really throw you for a loop if you don't catch it right away.

the sync loc i think has 1 or 2 caps right off that unit. and its not a good idea to touch the adj on the inside of the chassis of the sync loc because there are 2 adj , outside and one inside.

Hi All;
Timmy, I am not even thinking of much in adjustments yet.. Too many other issues, that have to be resolved before I get even close to that point.. Thank You Old Coot, I would have not thought of that being an issue..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I am now a firm believer in doing a few caps at a time.. I just did a few put it all back together and No Picture.. Took things like picture tube out and turned the chassis over, and after comparing my two sets I found my wiring mistake.. I fixed it and tried the Set again, and I have a Picture Back.. :banana:
And If you have the capability having two similiar sets, Helps alot also.. Doing an A to B comparison, pointed out the mistake real fast.. :thmbsp:
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I have all the Caps in that I currently can replace.. The next batch should come in early next week.. When I can do the rest of them.. At present the picture is kind of folded over.. But, untill I can get the rest done, I can't do any real in depth analysis.. I am glad that I have anything on the screen for now.. I figure some picture is better than No picture..
THANK YOU Marty

I'm looking forward to final pictures of this restoration. Keep up the good work Marty :thmbsp:

Hi All;
I got the Caps in, I didn't expect them till the middle of next week.. :banana: The TV is put away for awhile, and the kitchen Table has the Stepper on it at present.. I can't put both on the Kitchen table.. :D I just Reprinted up an 1" and a quarter of Documents and old emails, that I need to re-read to get back up to speed with it.. I couldn't find the papers from before.. :sigh:
This will give me a small Break from the TV, so when I go back to it.. It will be like all fresh and new and a renewed perspective on it.. Which can make me notice things I didn't see before.. :thmbsp:
I wish those of you that are interested in either the TV or the Stepper, lived closer, so I could explain my thinking in person, while working on something, and we could both be actually looking at it..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I have brought back the 630 from the Back room, and put the Stepper away for now.. The Kitchen Table has room for only one or the other, but not both..
I have more caps to replace.. And can start testing parts of the 630 once I have replace more of the caps..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I don't have picture, but I have almost all of the caps replaced.. The only exception is the Audio section, which works fine for now.. I am going to need to do an A B comparison between the 630 and the 830, and see If I have a wrong connection..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I have the picture sort of back, I can get a Raster that almost looks like there is something there.. Or I can get a raster that is about 1 inch high over and over again on the screen.. It is not rolling in either direction, I can get the signal to lock in.. Not sure what the trouble is yet..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I have had my 630 on its side and then it has no voltage.. But when it is sitting correctly, it has some voltage, since I get a picture.. When on its side I don't have the picture tube in the set.. I have it upside down now, without the picture tube, and will try to measure the voltages.. Is this because of the tubes being OLD or don't some of them work when laying on their side ?? Or is it my being too old ??
THANK YOU Marty

I find your post a little confusing. Are you saying that the set doesn't turn on when you have it on it's side ?

Hi All;
Bob, sorry about the confusing statement.. When the set is on its side, I get NO high voltage.. But, put it upside down or rightside up and I get High voltage.. With the Set upside down, and my Variac set to 110 volts input, I get on the 5U4 pin 8, and C220A, Field Coil, I get 259 volts, If I up the input voltage to 120 volts, the the reading is 290 volts at pin 8 and the Schematic shows 300 volts at this point.. But, If I put the chassis on its side then the Voltage is 0.. I think it mostly is that my 5U4's along with all of the rest of the Tubes are all old..
THANK YOU Marty

Are the 5U4 filaments lit when you lose voltage?

Clean the pins on your 5U4G rectifier tubes and make sure they are seating firmly in their sockets no matter how you turn the chassis.

Cleaning tube pins and sockets is so important that I always do it BEFORE any recapping.

http://antiqueradio.org/FirstStepsInRestoration.htm

Every tube, new or old, needs to make clean connections inside its socket, or all bets are off.

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

Hi All;
Old Coot, I just tried the Chassis on its side since the other day and I got filaments and I also have voltage.. The 5U4's and the 6BG6 are all held in by holding rings.. The 6BG6 is out right now, since I don't have a picture tube in the set.. I am not sure what has changed since then, maybe I didn't have as good of a ground connection as I had thought.. It was thru an aligator clip wire..
Phil, I will need to wait awhile before I have the funds for some Deoxit.. and find a place that locally carries it..
I had wanted to test the Video amps, with a video signal from my B&K 1077b and output with my scope.. Since the weak picture suggests that they may not be correct, or that the tubes are not doing their job..
THANK YOU Marty

You won't get HV without the 6BG6 installed.

Hi All;
Bob, That the whole idea.. With no picture tube installed in the set, I don't need the High Voltage lead with 10K banging accidently into my arm, while I am trying to take some readings, either with the scope or with the volt meter.. Since, I am working on other sections besides the High Voltage and the Horizontal sections, I don't need to worry about them at present..
THANK YOU Marty

You stated earlier "When the set is on its side, I get NO high voltage.. But, put it upside down or rightside up and I get High voltage.."

I thought that was the problem you were trying to track down.

The lines below 2kV and above heater voltage are called B+ (and B- in some cases).

Hi All;
Sorry, I used the wrong terminology What I mean't was the B+ and not the Really High voltage.. Now I understand what the confusion was all about.. I was thinking of Voltage higher than Filament voltage, but lower than Picture tube 10K voltage.. I know about using B+, but it completely slipped my mind and thoughts.. Which is also, why I had trouble the other day, most likely I didn't have something connected or turned on and didn't realize it.. And so I thought I had 0 Volts on both my scope and on my meter.. Then later, when I had the set right side up, I did something different.. I have know Idea what it was or is..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I Think I found out what the problem was.. The plug from the TV (cheater cord) or the Socket on the Variac is intermittent, and so most of the time it will work, but sometime with only slight movement of the Plug from the cheater cord, and I have no connection..
THANK YOU Marty

I will need to wait awhile before I have the funds for some Deoxit.. and find a place that locally carries it..


Deoxit is sold at guitar and music stores. You can also get it online usually for a buck or two less than the in-store price. Google Deoxit.