I have had aluminum feever for over 35 years, compulsively looking for classic antennas every time I'm on the road.

Stacked Conical X2 appears to have been used to get Philadelphia VHF channels in Harrisburg, about 85 miles.175261

Stacked single channel and yagi (redundant) for a local VHF channel175263

Stacked VHF hi/lo aimed for Philadelphia VHF channels in Reading, 45 miles away. 175262

The Finco "bedspring" is another good one, but I have no picture...yet.

Often I wonder if some are in use, even just for some FM reception.:scratch2:

Great photos! Those antennas may not be up much longer, judging from condition. :(


Stacked single channel and yagi (redundant) for a local VHF channel175263


I think that the 4 stacked antennas are "Double Vee" type, which were broadband, covering both VHF and UHF. I have seen these in two lengths, a "short" version (shown) and a longer version, with the front Vee about the same distance ahead of the mast. The angle of the vees was adjustable, with the wide angle position marked "VHF" and the narrow angle position marked "UHF" on the ones that I have seen. Could the Yagi have been for FM, perhaps?

jr

Was always fascinated by the Finco 400 series antennas. My mother took my brother and I to see them demonstate the antennas with a truck setup that hooked me on DXing for life. That was a LONG time ago. I found the Finco patents and used them to make a 400. It easily outperforms my Wade VIP-307 and nearly equals my CM4251 Parascope. Here is a picture of a 400 in Colorado (I think). My Finco reproduction is used in Bay Saint Louis, Mississippi. It is also an incredible FM antenna but it takes a tuner that is hard to overload to use. (SAE MKVI)

Was always fascinated by the Finco 400 series antennas. My mother took my brother and I to see them demonstate the antennas with a truck setup that hooked me on DXing for life. That was a LONG time ago. I found the Finco patents and used them to make a 400. It easily outperforms my Wade VIP-307 and nearly equals my CM4251 Parascope. Here is a picture of a 400 in Colorado (I think). My Finco reproduction is used in Bay Saint Louis, Mississippi. It is also an incredible FM antenna but it takes a tuner that is hard to overload to use. (SAE MKVI)

my dad had a antenna like that one in the 60's on a 50' tower and we could pick up wgn 9 and 32 and 7 out of chicago and we lived between south bend and elkhart indiana , its been on my mind lattley that i would like to find another one like that if they are making reproduction id like to get one .

Great photos! Those antennas may not be up much longer, judging from condition. :(



I think that the 4 stacked antennas are "Double Vee" type, which were broadband, covering both VHF and UHF. I have seen these in two lengths, a "short" version (shown) and a longer version, with the front Vee about the same distance ahead of the mast. The angle of the vees was adjustable, with the wide angle position marked "VHF" and the narrow angle position marked "UHF" on the ones that I have seen. Could the Yagi have been for FM, perhaps?

jr

Based on the available channels, the yagi is ch 8 (only local VHF channel) and the vee must certainly be for UHF......great info thanks!:thmbsp:

26KC20- Thanks for the photo. I will post a picture of the Finco antenna truck, I have an old advert from 1963. Maybe we need to go into business since everybody forgot how to make a truly good VHF antenna. I was really bummed when CM discontinued crossfires!

Making a Finco 400 was not difficult but it is BIG! From what I have learned, there was a smaller version, the 200. It was half the antenna. It seems the 400 is a stacked set of 200's. It is very directional. What is good about it is although big(!) it does not present a large wind load. My VU-937 SR Wade was a major "dancer" on the roof during storms. It was not a real performer. A CM3671 outperforms it. The VIP-307 is great for VHF. It's the one under the CM4251. This photo was taken after a tree came down on the house.
Patent #s
2566287
2630531
2655599

Based on the available channels, the yagi is ch 8 (only local VHF channel) and the vee must certainly be for UHF.

If that Yagi is indeed cut for ch 8 (and compared to the size of the mast and rotator, that seems reasonable) then the antennas in 4 stack of double Vees are much smaller than the UHF/VHF models that I have seen, and most likely for broadband UHF coverage only. Fun thread! :)

jr

Add: One of my favorite UHF only antennas for suburban use is the "bow-tie" style corner reflector, which was used in the earliest days of UHF and still useful on my roof for the local DTV channels. Note: Western Scrub Jay for scale. (about 11" tall, including tail)

Since the advent of cable tv, the abudance of antenna's "ain't what it used to be". I always enjoyed road trips as a kid and seeing what was used in other areas. I remember what the Detroit area was like before subscribed service came along and DX'ing. Installed lots of antennas too, mostly Winegards. I had a small Zenith(Jerrold?) antenna on a rotor that would really outperform for it's size with it's staggerd elements.


I glad I'm not the only one....I guess it's not a sickness after all!

I saved the antenna off of my great grandparents house, a JFD as I recall. It looks like a smaller version of that conical? Really rough shape, though, with most of its elements missing or beyond repair. I'm guessing it isn't really worth saving, but I'll have to post some photos before tossing it. There is a similiar looking array that I pass all the time. I need to stop and take a photo.

I saved the antenna off of my great grandparents house, a JFD as I recall. It looks like a smaller version of that conical? Really rough shape, though, with most of its elements missing or beyond repair. I'm guessing it isn't really worth saving, but I'll have to post some photos before tossing it. There is a similiar looking array that I pass all the time. I need to stop and take a photo. I have one complete straight, still gold elements half of a stacked conical and you're welcome to it for restoration parts.
I have to admit, these worked good as a fringe antenna on VHF, even giving clear reception of Lancaster channel 8 off the backside:thmbsp:. Also were damn cheap too, so the rooftops were full of them in the primarily VHF areas N+W of Philadelphia. And speaking of Philly, here is a good plug for GC colormagic antennas. 175318 One might ask why Philco did not endorse their good neighbor, Jerrold antennas. Someone may know, but I put up a few "Zenith" antennas in the late 70s that were made by Jerrold. They performed better than Channel Master and built as good as Winegard. I have my eye on one, so I am going to ask ASAP.

This is a great topic. The antennas in the pictures Dave first posted need to be saved if possible; we collectors have hundreds of TV sets and lots of rabbit ears but how many early outdoor antennas have been preserved?

I remember when I first moved away from home into an apartment, one of the first things I did was to install a roof TV antenna for real reception (as well as a roof CB antenna). It was a huge used Jerrold that I also brought to my second apartment and kept until high winds knocked the whole assembly down. After that, I moved to California and wanted to watch MTV, so I subscribed to (puke!) cable TV for several years.

Another "oldie but goody", but for FM this time. Pictured is a Radio Shack 10 element Yagi for FM only made in the early 70s. It is about 10 feet long. Later in the 70s, RS changed the 10 element to a version that was a hybrid log-periodic/Yagi design, eliminating the folded dipoles. the 10 element design was discontinued in the mid 80s (I believe). RS also sold a 6 element hybrid log-Yagi until fairly recently. The Antennacraft FM-6 is still being sold at other outlets, and is a fine performer for the money.

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=FM6&d=Antennacraft-FM6-6-Element-FM-Antenna-%28FM6%29

This antenna is in use on my roof, pointed at a classical station about 110 miles distant. Tuner is a Yamaha 950 (with narrow IF filters installed)...Reception is fine!

Not affiliated,
jr

This antenna is in use on my roof, pointed at a classical station about 110 miles distant. Tuner is a Yamaha 950 (with narrow IF filters installed)...Reception is fine!

Not affiliated,
jr

Why would you need to get a classical station from over 100 miles away? Your area must be one that has either all rock stations, no classical stations at all, or one that has had the local classical station changed to another frequency your area can no longer receive. The latter happened here in my area about five years ago; for whatever reason, the classical station in Cleveland, which had been on 95.5 MHz since its inception in 1962, moved its transmitter to a far-western Cleveland suburb and changed frequencies to 104.9 MHz. All of this wouldn't be so bad, but there is a very strong station just 0.2 MHz down the dial from the classical station that all but drowns it out. (The interfering station is only about ten miles from here, so the signal is extremely strong.)

Why would you need to get a classical station from over 100 miles away? Your area must be one that has either all rock stations, no classical stations at all, or one that has had the local classical station changed to another frequency your area can no longer receive.

Nope, none of the above... I have a very nice local Classical music station, which is my main station, but it is *always* nice to have alternate programming. I sometimes listen in the summer to a *third* Classical station that is about 160 miles distant (if the tropo is decent) :)

jr

I STILL want a nice 30-40' tower, a rotatorator, mount my Winegard on top.. This area has spme UNREAL DXing opportunities...

Many times, you'll find old antennas, in like new condition, in attics of older homes. It was better than using set-top antennas, in poorer reception areas.

This antenna is in use on my roof, pointed at a classical station about 110 miles distant.

This area has some UNREAL DXing opportunities...
Living near hills and mountains as I do is very pretty, but it really limits the line-of-sight VHF/UHF (FM/TV) DXing possibilities.

The nearest I have got is, one time several years ago when NTSC stations were still on the air, I pointed my 3-element 14/21/28 MHz Yagi antenna (on a 55-foot tower) toward Sacramento and hooked it up to a TV to see what I would get. It pulled in their Channel 3 TV station with only a small amount of snow. I should hook it up again and see if I can get any out-of-area digital stations. Eventually I want to put up one of my bigger all-band TV antennas on that tower with a nice Channel Master 7777 preamp.

A friend just sent me this photo of a 1950 RCA service truck with what looks to be a stacked conical on roof. 175484

Some more of the RCA antennas, a corner reflector from 1967 that performs very well.
This design was carried over for years afterward and is being sold by Digitenna.
175485175486

This is the last of the real RCA-branded antennas, assumed to be made by Gavin in NJ. Some retain the signature green anodizing even after 35+ years! I would hate to see the haz-mat report on the site where these were made.:nono:
They sure do last as I still see many around.:scratch2: The main issue with these was the poor UHF response due to the " very notchy" trap that attempted to trap the out-of-phase UHF received by the VHF section behind it. :thumbsdn:175487 Many a job re-used these as a VHF antenna and adding a separate corner reflector with amp on the mast.

Recently, I just had to experiment on digital using these designs and removed two of them from houses bought by Amish folks who were overjoyed that somebody wanted to remove this worldly symbol from thier chimney. This mid-size model performed only after isolating the UHF from the VHF and feeding them to an amp with separate U-V inputs (winegard AP2870) The curlicue-loaded VHF elements also set these apart. 175488

I found this TV antenna up in my attic.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8148/7613420202_402bf46eb9_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/7613420202/)

That looks like a Finco. The UHF trap looks like it had some engineering behind its design. Small but I bet it works real well in Chicagoland!

Many times, you'll find old antennas, in like new condition, in attics of older homes. It was better than using set-top antennas, in poorer reception areas.

The house I grew up in, which was built in the mid-'50s, had three attic-mounted television antennas -- one for VHF, one for UHF (for the living-room TV), and a third all-channel antenna for the set in my bedroom. All worked well in that area, which was 30+ miles from the Cleveland TV stations. The VHF antenna for the living-room TV was a 1950s-vintage conical type; the UHF one, if I remember correctly, was a 3- or 4-bay antenna with the screen behind (or in front of) the X-shaped elements. This was a necessity in the area in which my boyhood home was located, as the city was in a near-fringe area for Cleveland TV, in addition to having other reception problems related to the geography of the area. Set-top antennas worked in that area, but reception on certain stations (the PBS affiliate, for example, which was the worst) was often iffy at best, especially in color.

One area of which I am slightly intrigued is western NY. With access to Canadian stations (we only get AM DX from Canada this far south).

Check out this advertisement for a antenna retailer, selling "kits" direct to consumers.
I estimate this is from the early 1960's. The only UHF mentioned is channel 17, a PBS channel.
Notice that Hamilton is incorrectly shown west of Toronto.

175653

I also have one from Reading, PA for a Finco "area special" had a 3-6-10 broadband for Philly with an "8-bar" little Yagi antenna so you did not need a rotor just to get the one other VHF channel 8 clear, from the other direction.
This was a rather pedestrian setup getting just the three networks (two are NBC), lacking equipment to get the elusive three Philly UHFs that went on the air in 1965.
For that, Barbey Electronics sold the Finco 4-bay bowtie or JFD 4-bay bowtie (stacked co-linear arrays & vertically-oriented screens). You could always tell the JFD because it had the bowtie halves closed, not cut and heart-shaped. The corner reflectors seemed more suited to open areas with fewer tree obstacles, providing less wavefront capture, but slightly higher gain.

I cleaned out a TV shop in Delaware and he had a pair of NOS antennas in the attic, I think Channel Master, that were made just for just low-band VHF as I recall. He said the state prison had ordered them for some reason but never had them installed. I went as far as emailing a small local cable company to see if they would take them but, hearing nothing, they were still in the attic when the place was razed. I did find a good home for a NOS CM UHF, one of those huge ones, probably irritated the UPS guy having to deal with that box.

Channel master made the best UHF antenna, the Parascope model 4251, discontinued for the reason you state, a royal pain to handle. ( Finco also had one) If there's any signal, these will grab it. Here is a link of a dedicated fan - no affiliation of course.
http://www.rocketroberts.com/cm4251/cm4251.htm


I spotted one on the rear roof of a local high-end audio-video dealer near work a few years ago. I kept bugging the guy to sell it to me since he quit using it for his showroom. One day, I noticed the place closed and for sale, lots of red ink so I was told. Kept my eye on it and when a local Sign company bought the building, I made my move. The guy was thrilled to get it off his roof! I showed up alone with ladder and truck and removed everything including a CM 0068 amp and rotator, patching holes of course.. Now its on my shop garage, just above the roof. It probably takes an olympian feat to put one on a tower.

Thank you for those notes and the link, Dave. I used to think those were the coolest antennas to see when I was a kid. My brothers and I thought they were for some sort of "secret", closed-circuit or other special TV signals. In recent years, I have picked up a couple of parabolic grill-type antennas used for MDS or MMDS TV signals, the ones near 2400 MHz. They are smaller though, 3 or 4 feet diameter.

Thank you for those notes and the link, Dave. I used to think those were the coolest antennas to see when I was a kid. My brothers and I thought they were for some sort of "secret", closed-circuit or other special TV signals. In recent years, I have picked up a couple of parabolic grill-type antennas used for MDS or MMDS TV signals, the ones near 2400 MHz. They are smaller though, 3 or 4 feet diameter.

I saw those MMDS jobs all over Cleveland when I was there 20 years ago. That format was used where cable had not been yet installed, I think.

The Baltimore & DC markets had what they called "Super TV" with movies starting every night at 8pm. I would tune in to the scrambled signal (on WNUV-54) quite often as a novelty. Sometimes you could almost sorta see something! My father had a hunting buddy that subscribed. One night we all went over there for a party, to see some mob movie. I don't know what it was but there were so many "F-bombs" that my sisters and I had to stay in the back of the house. It didn't matter much because the reception was so poor that they never did make it through the whole thing. I wish I had the TV they owned, a very late Philco-Ford console.

I found this TV antenna up in my attic.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8148/7613420202_402bf46eb9_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/7613420202/)
im guilty of that , i did that at my shop i owned, the building was about 30 feet tall and real close to the rail road im talking about 50 feet away ,everytime a train went by it seemed every 25 min if the ant was out side i would get ghosting or alot of interference, i guess depending what was on the rail car, one saturday i was working down there got sike of it i new its got to be all reflective wave issue i mean train one big steal moveing wall with gaps in it, so i went and stuck it up in the attic ,had someone watching tv until it was almost perfect ,you wouldnt beleave the postion i put it to be perfect.

The Baltimore & DC markets had what they called "Super TV" with movies starting every night at 8pm. I would tune in to the scrambled signal (on WNUV-54) quite often as a novelty. Sometimes you could almost sorta see something! My father had a hunting buddy that subscribed. One night we all went over there for a party, to see some mob movie. I don't know what it was but there were so many "F-bombs" that my sisters and I had to stay in the back of the house. It didn't matter much because the reception was so poor that they never did make it through the whole thing. I wish I had the TV they owned, a very late Philco-Ford console.

"F-bombs"? I thought the FCC had rules about using that sort of language on television, even in the 1980s when "subscription" TV was popular and a couple decades before the flap involving a national talk-show host that resulted in the FCC really putting the brakes on indecent language on radio and TV. How on earth were you able to hear those words if the signal in your area was scrambled?

There was a subscription-TV station in Cleveland in the '80s, WCLQ-TV channel 61 (now WQHS Univision 61) that carried standard programming during the day, until about eight p.m., and subscription TV at night, all night. For the subscription service, the station had connections with a company that made decoders for the station's STV signal which it leased to interested subscribers for a monthly fee, and even special antennas cut specifically for the channel 61 frequency range. I saw at least one of those in my old neighborhood at least into the 1990s, long after STV folded in the Cleveland area.

The subscription TV service went off the air some time in the late '80s, and the local affiliate in Cleveland became WQHS-TV, an affiliate of the Home Shopping Network. This lasted a few years (I don't remember exactly how long), then HSN (now QVC) went to cable and WQHS became (and is to this day) a Spanish-language Univision affiliate. Digital channel 61.1 nowadays, of course. I believe Detroit's WXON-TV channel 20 also had a subscription-TV service called "ON" TV, which may have lasted as long as the Cleveland affiliate did.

I'm not sure what happened to channel 20 after that, although I think it became a MyTV affiliate and changed its callsign to WMYD (My [TV] Detroit). During its WXON-TV days, and before I got cable, I used to be able to get the station in suburban Cleveland in the summers, along with most other Detroit stations -- including WGPR-TV 62 (now CBS affiliate WWJ-TV). I still get Detroit stations on an indoor DTV antenna, but since I now live (and have lived since 1999) within a mile of the south shore of Lake Erie I'm not surprised.

Jeff, Bryan mentioned that he was at a house where they were subscribing to the service; that is how/why they could hear the audio.

Apparently many cities had similar services around the same time period (roughly 1979 to 1985). In Chicago, it was on channel 44 and called OnTV (plus their later partner Sportsvision on channel 60). A competitor, Spectravision, was on channel 66 with a different scrambling scheme.

In that time period, I, umm, did some "bad behavior". In fact, for a while I had the circuit to decode the OnTV audio (swear words and all!) memorized down to every component. It used an LM565 PLL chip, a transistor, and a few other capacitors and resistors to decode the audio from a 31 kHz or 60 kHz subcarrier. You had to tap the TV's audio detector before any de-emphasis components eliminated the subcarrier from the baseband audio. A cheap-and-dirty but useable way of decoding the video was to put a J.W. Miller 6333 coil in series with the video detector and tune it to eliminate the 15.75 kHz sine wave that scrambled the video. A DPDT switch completed the modification to the TV (to select normal or scrambled).

With my tower installed over a month ago, I have been testing different UHF antennas to see what I should ultimately install for long-term use.
I stick with one target channel, DT31 which is my location's weakest signal from Philadelphia. The recent muggy unsettled weather makes for great worst-case OR d-x scenarios that seem to vary daily.:sigh:

I started with a Digitenna D-UV as a base. This is a decent product made in Wisconsin, but pricey. The design uses RCAs bow-tie design mentioned in a previous post to good advantage in a relatively small package.

I next used the classic S+A UPW (relatively flat response) from the late 60s. It was nearly the same as the D-UV, a real testament to an old classic.
176079

After a week or so, I ventured into my garage attic and found this, a Jerrold variant of the corner reflector with a very interesting design.
This was mainly seen on commercial-level MATV installations and looks like something Blonder-Tongue would make today and sell for big bucks.
It has a 4 foot high semi-parabolic (in vertical plane only) reflector, a design currently being sold as an attic antenna under the GE name at Mal-wart. The real key to its effectiveness, or efficiency if you will, is the driven element design, not found in the GE-marketed version. The simple bowtie has top and bottom horizontal "tails" and is "grounded" in the center of each half by stand-offs of critical length.
176080
It is no wonder Jerrold was chosen as OEM for Zenith's line of antennas in the 70s!
Also small wonder Jerrold's PIX series VHF design lives on in the VIP line by WADE antennas of Canada.
After installing this Jerrold and seeing excellent results, the subsequent three "fringe" UHF antennas I have left to try may well be out-shined.
This ad from 1969 shows a cross-section Jerrold's line 176346

A reality check here; Nothing has been known to beat a full Parabolic, but being currently UN-available and a freaking beast to ship/install, its mentioned only as a point of reference as we seek the "second best" and practical solution.

Regarding mast-mount pre-amps, I prefer to use something new.
The older ones seem prone to PS transformer failure AND of course "overload or poor image signal rejection" from strong FM stations.
I tried the Winegard AP-2870 (separate U and V antenna inputs) and then tried the Channel Master 7777, with similar features but more expensive rugged construction. Both performed in a similar manner, but when I did the same comparison on my CM 4251 Parabolic (installed in a secure but low elevation), the CM7777 produced a stronger (probably cleaner- per the CM-7000 DTV box) signal*

*I should have a Sencore or B&K ($1000 at least )spectrum analyzer to do this properly. DTV boxes do not report signal level but rather bit-error rates, which are affected more by multipath than strength.

If you go to the irvington flea market in indianapolis indiana booth 79 has 1950s rabbit ears 10-15 dollars each!:banana:

If you go to the irvington flea market in indianapolis indiana booth 79 has 1950s rabbit ears 10-15 dollars each!:banana:

PM me with some pictures, I am looking for a 1965 Rembrandt with a translucent dark-red housing

I seem to have given all mine away when I sold TVs to the less fortunate. :sigh:

This thread encouraged me to finally get off my duff and set up my outdoor antenna. I had been making due with an "oven rack" UHF hanging in the attic. I had everything I needed: a pretty high-end, fairly late model Winegard that I had picked up a few years back at the local freight salvage store (installed on the back of my shed, hardly off the ground and with mast supports so badly twisted by a windstorm that it was almost vertical), a NOS Channel Master chimney mount kit, bought new by somebody in the early 60s at Atom Electronics of Lancaster, PA (how ya like that, Dave?), a used 70s vintage Alliance rotor, and plenty of coax. I got it mounted last week and have been slowly getting things set up. Issue #1 right now is that the bedroom TV is seeing too much line-loss due to the goofy way I rigged things up. For some dopey reason, when we added on I ran the coax from the bedroom through to my TV room, not up through the attic or down through the crawlspace, but through the studs where I can't access it. At least, I think that is how I did it. The coax has to run down into the TV room, through an outlet, then another short piece of coax connecting to another outlet that runs to the bedroom. Oh, I do have one of those 20db amplifiers in the mix back there. With that setup, and the antenna aimed towards Baltimore, I can't really pick up anything. But the living room set, seeing almost a straight run, gets pretty much every channel from the city. (but with help from another 20db amp right before the TV, and yet another one up in the attic!) So, got some cleaning up to do. What do you guys think about an antenna mounted amp? Any reccomendations as to make/model? I played with one a long, long time ago, from Radio Schlock, but it didn't last long.

Every time you amplify a TV signal, you will add more noise. However, I'm surprised you need two amplifiers ahead of your large outdoor UHF antenna just to get Baltimore stations from where you are (TV Guide's website shows Baltimore-Washington area stations as being the default stations for your area). Also, I am wondering why you don't get anything on one TV (yet the living room one gets all the Baltimore stations) if you are using the same amplified antenna system for both TVs in your house. If it works well for the living room set it should work equally well for the other in the bedroom, or wherever your second TV is in the house.

BTW, I wonder if the Baltimore TV stations are all on UHF DTV allocations, or if some few are still on VHF channels. I ask because, here in northeastern Ohio where I live, two stations -- Fox channel 8 and CBS channel 19 -- are on VHF DTV channels, while every one of the others (3, 5, 25, 43, 61) are on UHF allocations. This means I can get the UHF ones but not the two on VHF channels (I was using a small UHF only DTV antenna at the time, about a year or so ago). If the two VHF DTV stations were independents or were affiliated with networks I don't watch, I wouldn't mind that I don't get their digital channels, but these two stations also carry my two favorite retro-TV networks (MeTV and Antenna TV) on subchannels 19.2 and 8.2, respectively.

Been on the lookout for old TVantennas in the neighborhood. Not much left anymore, but I do notice quite a few of the remaining Log Periodic and Yagi antennas pointing exactly 180° backwards, with the big end toward the stations. Oops.

Been on the lookout for old TVantennas in the neighborhood. Not much left anymore, but I do notice quite a few of the remaining Log Periodic and Yagi antennas pointing exactly 180° backwards, with the big end toward the stations. Oops.

Many people made that mistake with LPV antennas, thinking the large end of the antenna shaped like an arrow is the end to orient to the stations' towers. Of course, as you said, this is exactly 180 degrees opposite of where the antenna should be oriented. I remember reading in an old electronics magazine (I forget which one) the story of a TV repairman who made a house call for a TV that wasn't getting reception from any of the local stations. The technician found the problem in five minutes; the large roof-mounted log-periodic all-channel antenna had been installed with the large end pointed at the towers -- of course, exactly 180 degrees away from where it should have pointed. He mentioned this to the set owner, who answered (in paraphrase), "I always thought these new TV antennas were supposed to be installed with the large end pointing at whatever you were trying to catch."

BTW, I know what you mean about old rooftop TV antennas disappearing. I live in a very small town (population appoximately 3250) in which most of the homes and apartment buildings (including the apartment building in which I live) have done away with antennas, and are now either wired for cable or satellite TV. (My building has cable.)

There are very few outdoor television antennas to be found in this town, and those that are still standing are falling apart. There is one house down the street from me that has an all-channel TV antenna which is falling apart by degrees. It has already lost the first two elements, and the ones behind it are so loose that one of them flaps in the wind. I expect that element to blow off entirely in the first big wind or snow storm this winter (I live near Lake Erie, so we get very fierce winds right off the lake every year; that antenna likely will blow apart very soon, the way it's going now).

What do you guys think about an antenna mounted amp? Any reccomendations as to make/model? I played with one a long, long time ago, from Radio Schlock, but it didn't last long.

I have always liked the Channel Master CM7777, but recent production is from China, and reported to be inferior to the older units. Check out the product reviews on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Channel-Master-TITAN2-PREAMPLIFIER-CM7777/dp/B000GGKOG8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348090237&sr=8-1&keywords=channel+master+tv+booster
At least one reviewer complained that he ordered from Amazon and got "old stock"... I would pay extra for the older version! :yes:

Not affiliated with Amazon or Channel Master,
jr

I have always liked the Channel Master CM7777, but recent production is from China, and reported to be inferior to the older units. Check out the product reviews on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Channel-Master-TITAN2-PREAMPLIFIER-CM7777/dp/B000GGKOG8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348090237&sr=8-1&keywords=channel+master+tv+booster
At least one reviewer complained that he ordered from Amazon and got "old stock"... I would pay extra for the older version! :yes:

Not affiliated with Amazon or Channel Master,
jr

I have used Blonder Tongue (:D:D), Winegard and Channel Master Mast-mount amps without much preference. One caution is to make sure you do not have a too-powerful FM transmitter nearby and/or on a multiple of the frequency you're trying to get. I used to have a problem with PBS channel 12 from Philly at my parent;s house, which was within sight (10 miles) of an FM (102.5 mc) station at 1/2 of channel 12's sound carrier. I could use only amps with tunable FM traps like CM 0064.

Last week, I climbed up into the darkness of the garage attic and pulled out a rather interesting UHF helical I snagged off a 3-story roof several years ago. 176343I had attempted to get one of these several times only to be turned away by the queasy, litigation-shy and just plain ignorant to the $20 spot I offered. Breaking out WD40 for frozen wingnuts and emery cloth shined up harness connections for maximum conduction. I then climbed the tower and hoisted my Zig-a-log (LPV-ZU20) into place, connecting through the CM7777 mast amp, expecting some record-breaking performance. I was not disappointed. It was a tad less effective than the Jerrold, but had a significantly narrower beam. Again, nothing beats a parabolic CM4251 for UHF.

Update 10/1/12: During changeable rainy weather yesterday, the ZigaLog seemed to perform better on the "difficult channel WPPX" as the weather worsened. All the while the parabolic, located 40 feet away and at a lower elevation was having trouble holding the channel as is the norm during such weather.

Few antenna manufacturers of the glory days made their products as easy to identify as JFD. Originally JFD of Brooklyn NY seemed to make only signal splitters, couplers and other TV accessories. I have a few examples of those items and the boxes they came in. I have a few catalogs (out on loan) that covered much of JFD's late 1950s product line.
Here is an example of JFD's top-value UHF antennas that most manufacturers made, the 4-bay bow tie and corner reflector plus a mid-60s advertisement for JFD expressing frustration over a 1965 government mandate for all-channel TV stopping short of addressing antennas. Sound familiar? 176345

This ad proclaims a breakthrough VHF design noting 6 patents which would be a formidable competitor for the next 15 years! Many of these are still visible on rooftops due to rugged construction.176418

This ad includes the "trapezoid" or helical design UHF antenna in a set-top version. My next post will feature a home-made replica of this little UHF wonder based on a 1970 JFD antenna I am still using.:D as a VHF performer. Hopefully, you can read the paragraphs supporting the "fight" against CATV coming to your area 176419

J F D Antennas were usually so well-constructed, many can still be seen today. The tell-tale mid-element capacitors optimized high-band performance. They also had the most bizarre look:alien:with Channel Master coming in a distant second in that category.

The antenna pictured 176344is one of the last LPV models JFD made before becoming history. A search of JFD turns up little more than a patent infringement suit with Channel Master and a superfund site in NC.

Here is an example of the quest to boost high-band gain by adding antenna bling in the form of folded dipole loops tuned for high band176779.

This is a later version of a broadband VHF antenna 176780
using a helical high-band (zig-zag) very common in the early 1960's.

Both these VHF antennas have companion a UHF antenna. This is none other than JFD's unique version of the super-efficient bow-tie corner reflector.

Channel Master - much more to come but here is what I consider to be the ultimate and most beautiful sight on a rooftop circa 1970

The 4311G UHF adjustable yagi and 3611 crossfire VHF pictured below are on a 50-foot wood pole in a nearby neighborhood. No rotator, these beauties are aimed toward Philadelphia 60 miles away. Back in the days of analog, this returned at least 0 db crystal clear pictures on 4 VHF and 3 UHF (independents) channels, no doubt. Just a guess but the owner probably did not care if they watched the local affiliates, 1 NBC, 1 ABC, 1 PBS and 3(!) CBS stations.
A second guess, this pole with climbing arms, was also climbed more than once to replace a dead mast preamp!
177405

Channel Master - much more to come but here is what I consider to be the ultimate and most beautiful sight on a rooftop circa 1970

Yes.

Thanks DavGoodlin, for the photos and comments. Hope you do have some more to post.

Fond memories of studying those TV antennas while riding in a school bus. Practically memorized shape and configuration of every antenna along a 8-10 mile rural route. Alas, they are gone. Never had any photos.

In searching for TV antenna info, realized that there was very little published in the 1960 thru mid-1970's (the peak of the large TV antenna days). Much TV antenna development was done in the 50's and there were a couple of books that recoded some of that development. Seems to be some history and technical details lost, or nearly lost.

was also climbed more than once to replace a dead mast preamp!


Oh yes, in those days (the 70s), preamps were more failure prone (static discharge nearby lightning etc.), preamps still are failure-prone of course but some of them they are a bit better.

Don't think there was much available in preamp lineup in the 60s. Vacuum tube type set-top tunable boosters were used before transistorized antenna mounted preamps became available. Guess those fared better with lightning, hey, they could probably make some sparks of their own.

Very interesting thread. When I was in Florida a few years ago I was fascinated by the VHF/UHF TV antennas in the sticks away from the cities, I presume cable didn't get to them. Here in England most folks don't have cable (about 15/20% have cable) & most houses have a UHF TV antenna on the roof (mostly yagis) you never see VHF TV antennas anymore as VHF hasn't been used for TV (it was used for 405 lines) for over 40 years, most people changed to UHF (625 lines) in early the 70's as colour was never broadcast on VHF. When we did have VHF TV most antennas round here (Nottingham area) were H or X shaped for low band (band 1) & 5 to 9 element yagis for high band, (band 3) both were verticaly polarized, the 2 transmitters were just north of Birmingham about 45 miles away..

For amplifiers I recommend a GaAsFet one from
http://www.advancedreceiver.com/page12.html
and get one tuned to your worst case channel. The noise
figure of these is 0.5 dB!! They also make broadband ones but the
noise figure is 2.5dB. That can make a difference. These do need
a separate wire for the DC feed and a weatherproof box. Their overload
capacity is stupendous.

As for antennas ... I was trying to get a channel 44 which is 68 miles
away over a tiny hill. What worked best was a home-made cut to channel
24 element Yagi, scaled from a design found in a 1977 ARRL handbook,
make 100% out of copper tubing soldered together. This was at a height
or only 20 feet. Such antennas are 6 channels wide. I added an extra
reflector behind it cut to channel 19 and that made it work fine
for local channels 17-23 (of course at low gain, the reflector just removes
the back response).

Last week, I climbed up into the darkness of the garage attic and pulled out a rather interesting UHF helical I snagged off a 3-story roof several years ago. 176343I had attempted to get one of these several times only to be turned away by the queasy, litigation-shy and just plain ignorant to the $20 spot I offered. Breaking out WD40 for frozen wingnuts and emery cloth shined up harness connections for maximum conduction. I then climbed the tower and hoisted my Zig-a-log (LPV-ZU20) into place, connecting through the CM7777 mast amp, expecting some record-breaking performance. I was not disappointed. It was a tad less effective than the Jerrold, but had a significantly narrower beam. Again, nothing beats a parabolic CM4251 for UHF.

Update 10/1/12: During changeable rainy weather yesterday, the ZigaLog seemed to perform better on the "difficult channel WPPX" as the weather worsened. All the while the parabolic, located 40 feet away and at a lower elevation was having trouble holding the channel as is the norm during such weather.

Few antenna manufacturers of the glory days made their products as easy to identify as JFD. Originally JFD of Brooklyn NY seemed to make only signal splitters, couplers and other TV accessories. I have a few examples of those items and the boxes they came in. I have a few catalogs (out on loan) that covered much of JFD's late 1950s product line.
Here is an example of JFD's top-value UHF antennas that most manufacturers made, the 4-bay bow tie and corner reflector plus a mid-60s advertisement for JFD expressing frustration over a 1965 government mandate for all-channel TV stopping short of addressing antennas. Sound familiar? 176345

This ad proclaims a breakthrough VHF design noting 6 patents which would be a formidable competitor for the next 15 years! Many of these are still visible on rooftops due to rugged construction.176418

This ad includes the "trapezoid" or helical design UHF antenna in a set-top version. My next post will feature a home-made replica of this little UHF wonder based on a 1970 JFD antenna I am still using.:D as a VHF performer. Hopefully, you can read the paragraphs supporting the "fight" against CATV coming to your area 176419

J F D Antennas were usually so well-constructed, many can still be seen today. The tell-tale mid-element capacitors optimized high-band performance. They also had the most bizarre look:alien:with Channel Master coming in a distant second in that category.

The antenna pictured 176344is one of the last LPV models JFD made before becoming history. A search of JFD turns up little more than a patent infringement suit with Channel Master and a superfund site in NC.

vary interesting antenna ,and creative too.

Here is an odd looking old UHF antenna that I got at the Early Television Convention in 2013. I use it with my big screen 50 inch plasma, and it works better than rabbit ears. Just had to use a matching transformer for the 300 ohm to the 75 ohm coax connector. It just sits on top of my Technics turntable, and brings in good hi-def picture.

Here is an odd looking old UHF antenna that I got at the Early Television Convention in 2013. I use it with my big screen 50 inch plasma, and it works better than rabbit ears. Just had to use a matching transformer for the 300 ohm to the 75 ohm coax connector. It just sits on top of my Technics turntable, and brings in good hi-def picture.
That's the old Radion "Bulls-Eye" UHF antenna. Very popular in the early days of UHF.:yes:

DavGoodlin; That is quite a interesting group of antennas you found. I'm looking
forward to more on this, and thanks for posting it all....

To continue with more from Jerrold, attached is a "showroom sample" Zenith antenna, circa 1979. This was used to sell its unique features up close.
The bowtie has a Z cut into it. The X-director element(s) is a classic Jerrold design as well.
Notice the notches in the director element so it can be shortened and optimized for high UHF channels.
This antenna seemed to be in production for only a few years, after which only Channel Master and Winegard survived the late 70s.
188665

TV Antennas have held an interest for me, since I was a small child, I have always "looked up" whenever possible, to see antennas in different areas. I find I still look for them, when I'm out and about, especially walking from my truck to the home, at Estate Sales. When I see one I like, and I'm safely able to (I.E. not driving:), I will snap a picture with my cell phone! Here are a few I have taken, in the last several months. The antennas not on towers, are in the Suburban Detroit Metro area, where I live, and the fringe area tower units, are in outlying areas, some near mid-Michigan.

Dave

The first is a classic Radio shack (Antennacraft-made) design, now used by Channel Master since CM limited their line significantly.

The second is fairly new.

The third pic is an old VHF setup for channels in opposite directions so a rotor is not needed.

The fourth one is very interesting, a stacked folded dipole with multi-element reflector array. I have seen those but the camera was not handy.

The fifth picture seems to show a Zenith on the left, on the right is the good old CM crossfire VHF topped with CM's version of the 4-bay bowtie.

Looking through some JFD literature, I noted that the longer elements were not only 1/4 wavelength for low band VHF but were at 3/4 wavelength for high band also.
That is how the stacked conical antennas functioned on high band with no short elements.

Thanks!

My house has a wall plate in the living room for some kind of antenna..one of these days I need to climb up in the attic to see what's up there.

My house has a wall plate in the living room for some kind of antenna..one of these days I need to climb up in the attic to see what's up there.

Your place is old enough for that to be a radio antenna.

Picture #4 is an early 50s Channel Master 2 stack "Champion", which was available in single bay, double and quadruple stacked versions. Each bay consisted of 2 high band folded dipoles and a low band dipole, backed by 5 reflector elements. If you happen to have a Jan '54 Radio Electronics (15GP22 screen shot on cover) it is pictured on page 22 CM ad.

jr

Possible could be a radio antenna, Tom, I suspect its TV, though, It looks newer, if it was original to the house they would have lined up up with the power outlet 6 inches away from it., has a 50's or 60s style wall plate, 2 slots, almost the same size as a 2 prong power socket, but set vertically in the middle of the plate. Its a bit odd, doesn't match other antenna outlets I've seen.

Possible could be a radio antenna, Tom, I suspect its TV, though, It looks newer, if it was original to the house they would have lined up up with the power outlet 6 inches away from it., has a 50's or 60s style wall plate, 2 slots, almost the same size as a 2 prong power socket, but set vertically in the middle of the plate. Its a bit odd, doesn't match other antenna outlets I've seen.

Curious - can you post a picture?

I picked up this UHF antenna at an estate sale today. I don't know the age but guessing by all the other items in the house it probably is from around 1950-1970. Any ideas?

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll246/eviljoebob/IMG_2437.jpg (http://s290.photobucket.com/user/eviljoebob/media/IMG_2437.jpg.html)

No idea what it was sold as, but its a fairly "standard idea" design related
to the very common Radio Shack double bowtie. I've simulated and actually
tested many related designs similar to both the RS and that one ... and they
are truly stellar performers. The strange shape of the driven element actually
simulates AND TESTS .... as quite optimal, clearly better than flat (if you need to cover a wide frequency range).

I picked up this UHF antenna at an estate sale today. I don't know the age but guessing by all the other items in the house it probably is from around 1950-1970. Any ideas?

Radio Shack 15-1629

http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/html/1974/h083.html

.

Sony's VCA-4 automobile television antenna is a weird one. I guess it worked great when you were travelling but unless you had antsy kids in the back, wouldn't it be a little hard to watch? ;)

I put magnets in mine so I can stick it to my car's ragtop. Officially the last guy in town doing that.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/IMG_9249.jpg

Probably worked better than those boomerang jobs
especially on VHF.

...

Judging from the length, it looks like a low band VHF 2-6 Yagi with two folded dipole driven elements, probably to spread the useful frequency range.

Judging from the length, it looks like a low band VHF 2-6 Yagi with two folded dipole driven elements, probably to spread the useful frequency range.

Looks that way. Having each folded dipole very near a dipole element is one of the wackier things to me, but I'm not an antenna expert. Maybe just a way to transform 75 ohms to 300? I wonder how efficient this was?

It would be interesting to plug the design and dimensions into some modern day antenna modeling software.

Looks that way. Having each folded dipole very near a dipole element is one of the wackier things to me, but I'm not an antenna expert. Maybe just a way to transform 75 ohms to 300? I wonder how efficient this was?

I think that the extra element is connected correctly on the foreword driven element... screwed to the center of the bend. I would guess that the rear DE has holes for similar attachment of the extra element.

IIRC, some marketing people dubbed this a "NEW, IMPROVED TRIPOLE DESIGN" :D ... Supposedly improved the impedance matching of the two DEs to 300 ohm line. :scratch2:

jr

I had the same kind of RS antenna on a rotator. I got up to 175 miles reception. I lost it and would give almost anything for another.

...

300 ohm twinlead will give you the perfect chance to resurrect another 1950s practice: aluminum foil wrapped around the line and sliding back and forth to tune/detune any mismatch. :D Of course, you cannot get the fine feedback with digital that you could with analog. :no:

I was so happy when they got rid of that stuff. Prone to picking up local motor interference, and needed to be spaced away from metallic antenna support structure. The town house I moved to in 1974 had a pre-installed VHF folded dipole in the attic, with twinlead of course, to a living room antenna outlet. Couldn't understand why it was SO lousy until I traced the twin lead and found it was routed through the wall by wrapping it around a convenient electrical conduit.

Hi All, i'm a little late to this party, but i thought i would post a pic of my 60's UHF twin bow tie antenna that i still use today.

Hi All, i'm a little late to this party, but i thought i would post a pic of my 60's UHF twin bow tie antenna that i still use today.

Actually a pretty reliable antenna. When we compared indoor antennas for digital reception, this one was surprisingly OK, coming close to the "Silver Sensor" log periodic design. I don't have enough intuitive antenna knowledge to explain why that is so, with the reflector so close to the active elements.

Hi All, i'm a little late to this party, but i thought i would post a pic of my 60's UHF twin bow tie antenna that i still use today.

A friend of mine uses one for DTV even now.

Actually a pretty reliable antenna. When we compared indoor antennas for digital reception, this one was surprisingly OK, coming close to the "Silver Sensor" log periodic design. I don't have enough intuitive antenna knowledge to explain why that is so, with the reflector so close to the active elements.

Yes, I would like to hear why some reflector style antennas end up with only about 1/10 to 1/8 wavelength spacing between the driven element and the reflector. :scratch2:

I have built several of the biquad antennas, and indeed they seem to perform best with short reflector spacing.

http://martybugs.net/wireless/biquad/

https://buildyourownantenna.blogspot.com/2014/07/double-biquad-antenna-calculator.html

jr

Hi All, i'm a little late to this party, but i thought i would post a pic of my 60's UHF twin bow tie antenna that i still use today.

Radio shack sold that one for $3.99 see WiscoJim's post link to catalog #60. If you lived in a high-rise apartment, it was way better compared to any other indoor UHF antenna.

Many apartments had only VHF-only MATV systems, and that little wonder usually pulled in at least two of the three Philadelphia independent UHF stations, provided you were up a story or two and facing the right direction.

First aired, 26 November 1962. Antenna? Wineguard?..

First aired, 26 November 1962. Antenna? Wineguard?..

I never saw a Winegard like that!
BTW, where's the transmission line? :scratch2:

I have seen a Winegard like that, the Powertron P-55 or without the amp, Colortron C-42. My grandma got one out up after the 1971 Chromacolor was delivered. The model was made for decades as a workhorse where 3 or more VHF channels in the same direction made a broadband VHF necessary.

In most areas from 30 out to 55 miles, this antenna with a 5-foot boom tended to perform as well fringe-rated log-periodics twice that size and compared without the amp! JFD, Jerrold and Channel Master did not have a smaller budget model that would work like that in a standard fringe location. Of course, if directivity and ghost rejection was criteria, the biggest antenna is the best.

In the 80s and 90s, the VHF-UHF chromstar line was a huge seller but a variation of this little wonder was still available in "TV man" line and I have one of those. Gone are the "W"s punched out in the rear driven element bracket you see.

That was 1962 and what I like about your pictures is the three-phase high tension lines and cross-arms look awful close, probably to embellish the folly of Lucy on a roof, though its clearly on a movie set
197538

A couple antenna pictures here, I took just the other day. Each antenna, I have seen for many, many years, but finally took the time to take pictures, especially since the tower on top of the Sears store, which closed a few years ago, who knows when all will be torn down. I'm always looking for classic antennas! I wish I had one, like the folded dipole with reflector, which looks like it's mounted on the power pole, but actually next to it.

Radio Shack 15-1629

http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/html/1974/h083.html

.
Lol, I have that UHF antenna thats in that radio shack ad for 15.95
I was playing around with it in 2005-06 trying to recieve analog UHF, this was my millionth attempt at having UHF at home.
I could get a few stations one really clear a few miles away at a roadside lookout with a pocket tv, but I never did pick anything up at home.
To many mountains and trees where I live and they completely kill UHF signals.
God I sure miss analog....

Anyone remember these cheezy peices of crap?
Seems like everwhere I went someone had one stuffed in the closet amongst a bunch of junk. Circa 1995 every garage sale had one.
The two controls consisted of a dish rotator , and a tuning control which all it did was cut off one of connections to the rabbit ears .
The important looking plastic things on the dipoles were just that, important hollow plastic shells.
Rabbit ears in sheeps clothing, Sucker bait at it's finest....?
https://playingintheworldgame.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/hall-of-shame-advertisement1.jpg

This one sold at the WARCI donation auction for I think $2 or $3 in July.

http://www.videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198959&stc=1&d=1564949011

.

This one sold at the WARCI donation auction for I think $2 or $3 in July.

http://www.videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198959&stc=1&d=1564949011

.
I think the Archers actually had a rf amp in them if I recall...

I think the Archers actually had a rf amp in them if I recall...Yes, this one did. https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/radio_shac_archer_color_supreme_v_5.html

.

"Dish" was an outrageous design using a dipole for UHF, stoking a delusion among the band-illiterate. Only good in Metro areas and I bet it was not patented either.

"Archer" Antenna: The plastic things on the VHF dipoles were so that you could adjust them without making electrical contact and skewing results of aiming-spreading. The one knob rotated both loop and monopoles, other knob performed the "hocus-pocus" of impedance-matching combinations.

The plastic ring on the UHF loop added a director and reflector element that was just chromed plastic. I never did understand why a bowtie and reflector was not used on these set-tops instead. Loops had one advantage, not limited to horizontal polarization. The best set-top UHF antenna I ever used was that RS $4.99 set-top two-bay bowtie.

These may have been the last of the indoor antennas that used a switch to alter connections between the elements and have separate UHF and VHF leads.

...The best set-top UHF antenna I ever used was that set-top two-bay bowtie.


In the early days of digital, the Radio Shack dual bowtie was one of the best non-amplified indoor UHF antennas we tried at Zenith. The other was the "Silver Sensor" log-periodic.

I've one of those "dish" jobs on my Motorola in the bedroom, using 90s-00s era rabbit ears for the CTC21 and BT modulator, and a standard Philips branded VHF/UHF combo yagi I bought for $25 back in '06. I took it with me when I moved out of my parents in '08. It beats anything you can buy at a big box store for DTV reception. A local hardware store still has the same one (though RCA branded) and they want over $100 for it! I'm only 35 mile outside ABQ, bit we have always needed good outdoor antennas for decent reception.

My great grandparents in Douglas, AZ had a big tower for my great grandpa's HF rig, but also mounted a really big Winegard aimed at Tucson up there. Next time I go down, I'll see if its still there and take pictures.