Hey guys,

I thought I'd start a new thread with a relevant title, as the old one really changed topics.

I've finally gotten the Trinitron running and displaying a picture.

However, the picture is kind of red. Backing down the color control, doesn't fully get get rid of the colors, as most colors still peek through (mostly red, but blue, green, etc. too). The picture's fine otherwise, clean and clear. It just comes off as very warm.

What is causing this? Worn guns?

Sounds like the drive or screen controls are turned up too high. Back off the red a little and see how it looks. If it looks better, then try the green and blue. Sounds like a grayscale adjustment is in order.

How do I do that?

The controls are probably on the crt circuit board. if its new enough, it will be in the service menu. The controls will be labeled. Sometimes the controls are color coded, red green blue knobs. I'm not familiar with that exact set but they are all similar. If it's in the service menu, you can read about it online. You will need a sony remote to get into it. Be careful, you can mess things up if you don't know what you are doing.

It has a primitive OSD, but just for volume and picture.

If I have to mess with it while it's on, I'd really rather leave it. I have no idea what I'm doing in there.

Yes it will have to be on. Maybe best to leave it until someone can help you out.

Makes sense. Thank you though, at least I know it's curable now.

Makes sense. Thank you though, at least I know it's curable now.

Just a note to say that a picture is always helpful. When you don't know what the problem is, it's easy to accidentally describe it in a misleading way, and it may be better to show it to the experts than try to tell it in words.

Sure thing. Here are a few pictures.

Oh come on, he's just Zoidberg in disguise!

Seriously, what does a greyscale pattern look like?

Where do you live? In Florida? I'll adjust it for you. If there's one thing I have a good eye for, it's 65k. ;)

turn the color down slightly and turn the tint toward green. That might help some

A shelf under my heavy old Trinitron did the same thing, until I screwed a couple of full width 3/4 inch angle iron lengths to the underside... Painted flat black, they were pretty unobtrusive.

jr

Seriously, what does a greyscale pattern look like?


Agree - you have to start with a good black and white picture. Turn the color completely off and see if the picture is still pink (especially in the shadows). If so, the tracking (G2's or "cutoff" or "background") controls probably need adjusting. Once the tracking is OK (shadows are same color as highlights), drives can be adjusted for a warmer or cooler color temp (still with the color turned all the way down). [NOTE There may be some interaction between the G2 and drive settings.]

Once you have good black and white, you can turn the color back up and see if there is any problem there.

The CRT might be weak or weaker. There is a fine line where the emission gors south to the point where it starts to effect picture and color quality. If you have any smearing of whites like letters and the such on the screen and turning the contrast (picture on sonys) down takes it away, you could have a weak CRT. Usually Sonys come from the factory with near perfect greyscales, so if the controls were untouched, which are located on the CRT neckboard, and not user servacable unless the back is removed on this model, then I would say the CRT may be getting tired. Now yes like others said you can adjust it out, but thats temporary. There are some instances I have run into in the past where a poteometer has a flat spot on it where the slightest turn will change drastically. But a usual telltale sign of a weak trinitron is color smearing (or bleeding) (usually red) around the whites.

I'm not really seeing smearing here.. I'm just seeing the reds being pushed far too much..

He hasn't even shown us a greyscale pattern yet..

A weak CRT would do this kind of smearing: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/Evilweredragon/highcontrast.jpg

I'm just not seeing that here in his pics.

Heck, it may not even be the CRT itself, it could be something in how it decodes NTSC (or PAL, depending on region).. I've seen that happen too.

Worn tube, eh? That sounds like the truth. The set's 23 years old, and has apparently seen daily use.

What do you guys think?

Well, it looks like the color doesn't go to zero. (ALso notice the difference in color of their jackets). So then, it's hard to judge the black and white tracking without a test pattern, but it does give the impression of too much red and maybe not enough green.

Hm, well here's a picture of a B & W image (a DVD preview):

Seems to look ok, the phone camera cast some kind of tint over the image though.

Yeah, the phone camera pic has a cyan cast. If it appears neutral gray to the eye, it's OK. Are you sure the preview is not tinted?

Definitely. At least in that preview, it's perfect B & W. I have another picture taken right after that one that has a green tint. Oddly, messing with the hue does nothing to the B & W picture, go figure.

I do see red smearing around the white letters in my second to last post. So is the tube worn?

If so, that's too bad.

The hue should have no effect on a black and white pic, so that's OK
The letters show some red misconvergence, not smearing. (red on one side, cyan on the other). So, I'd say the tube is not looking worn.

Despite all the negative diagnoses, the color picture does look reddish. (You said that's how it looks to the eye). I think you really need to look at some test patterns, or have someone else with some expertise fiddle with the controls and diagnose what's happening.

Worn tube, eh? (Picture at 100%)
Ouch! PLEASE turn the "Picture" control (or menu setting) down, perhaps to 50% or so. This alone might fix the tint issue, and will certainly help the CRT last a lot longer. The "default" settings on a TV were intended for lazy store personnel to help sell "bright" TV sets; never use one this way in real life! :eek:

Sadly with my Samsung I can't put at 50%, it'd go very dim. ;) I have to have it at 80% to get a normal picture (to me normal is darker than those newer TV's. I even turn down the computer brightness at work, hate those bright screens!)

Ouch! PLEASE turn the "Picture" control (or menu setting) down, perhaps to 50% or so. This alone might fix the tint issue, and will certainly help the CRT last a lot longer. The "default" settings on a TV were intended for lazy store personnel to help sell "bright" TV sets; never use one this way in real life! :eek:

I'm sorry! I had no idea.

Turning down the 'picture' to about 50% gives a very dim picture, perhaps I should turn the brightness up to compensate? The mechanical knobs have notches when they're at 50%, I assume for default values. The picture control is on-screen though, so I had no idea about it's default value.

You know, I just had a thought.

I had a DVD with one of those THX optimizers. I followed the prompts, and I have to say, it looks a lot better; although it's still pretty 'warm'. The reds don't bleed anymore, which is great.

Can I make the picture even better?

EDIT: The picture's still pretty warm, though. What could cause the red gun to overwork like this, or was it like this since the beginning?

Well, I had a lot of time to calibrate it today.

I'm pretty certain that the tube is indeed pretty worn. It has that aged tube look, you know the type, where the colors are dim and you can't drive the brightness/contrast much without blowing out highlights.

Unless someone knows something, it appears the tube is indeed at the end of it's life. Kind of a shame.

The previous owner used it daily with the picture set at 100%, so now we know part of the reason.

I'm sorry, but non of your pictures have shown any sign of tube wear so far.

Where do you live? I'm sure one of us can take a look for you.

I've learned too that if the G2 is too low, you can also smear colors at high contrast, for example...

Hey there.
Well after seeing those second set of pictures I would say you have a CRT issue of some sort. The color looks soft and the convergence looks off. Has the tv been dropped?

Shawn

Funny you should ask.

Well, it never fell, but between stuffing it into the car, taking it to the tech, and moving it inside the house, it may have received a bit of shock.

Soft color? In my opinion, the problem is that the color is too radiant, with red being over-powering and green non-existant (turning the hue all the way to the right makes the picture yellow, not green). Would you mind elaborating?

Hey there.
Well after seeing those second set of pictures I would say you have a CRT issue of some sort. The color looks soft and the convergence looks off. Has the tv been dropped?

Shawn

I'm really not seeing this.

I just think the finger is being incorrectly thrown here.. Sure, I'm a newb when it comes to CRT diagnoses, but I've seen a LOT of Trinitrons just have soft focus and off convergence that are easily fixed.

Some of these sets had a knob called hstat. For static convergence. Not sure if this one had it or not. It was easy for these to move. If so it could need a touch up. While in there touch up greyscale. The CRT prob has many hours on it but many hours left. It's a trinitron.

Hm, supposing it had the hstat knob, that solves the convergence, but what can be done about the overworking red gun?

The red gun itself isn't what the problem is, otherwise you'd see it in the greyscale patterns. I think it's somewhere in the NTSC decoder.

The tube may be worn but I think a grayscale touch up would help it.
It definitely looks to Red to me, I agree that a little more Green might help, assuming the tube has more green to give.

I don't know if the Drive controls are Potentiometers on this set or in the Service menu.

The service menu on the XBR's of this era were accessed by pushing a hidden button on the back of the set while powering on.

It definitely looks to Red to me, I agree that a little more Green might help, assuming the tube has more green to give

I think that is the key. If it doesn't, then I'm afraid the set can't give a nice enough picture for me to consider 'usable'.

It does have a primitive OSD (for volume, input, and picture only) and everything else is on potentiometers.

Here's a picture of it with the back off. Do you see anything that could be used to service it?

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s451/apples555/IMG_0134.jpg

Another interesting point is that very red reds come out pink. Turning the hue to compensate makes the image too yellow otherwise. Very odd.

This is turning into quite a little project.

The Service Menu is different than the Menu for Color and Tint etc.. it was only menat to be accessed by Service People.

IF this set uses a Service Menu it will be accessed by some Method not obvious to the user.

If it was an XBR there would be a small snap switch on that board near center bottom, not sure what others used it but this seems to be a higher end set so it might.

Look for a small button switch on that board or nearby, there will be a corresponding hole in the back cover if it's for the Menu.

Hold it down while powering on the set and it should come up in Service Mode.

If it doesn't have a SM then the controls for the Screens should be on the board on the back of the CRT.

Hey guys, sorry I didn't reply sooner, I had some other things to attend to.

No, I know, my point was that it's difficult to tell if the set has a service menu or service potentiometers.

I see no buttons on the back, unfortunately.

I've found that ramming the brightness up to 75-80% evens up the colors quite nicely, but red is still pushing too much. Even without a signal, the 'haze' that comes from having the brightness too high is tinted red as well. The resultant picture is still uninspiring.

What kind of control would the service menu/potentiometers give me if I was able to access them?

Poteometers are on top of the CRT neck board. Yes they are there I can see them. Look for rdrv and turn it down a hair. Might need to tweak the r screen too.

Hey there freakaftr8,

I see. Didn't you say that changing color drives is only a temporary solution to a failing tube?

I wonder why B & W images don't look red-tinted to me, are my eyes playing tricks on me?

Sorry I misread something. Yes I'll agree with others. It may not or still could be the CRT. But could be a demod issue as well. If color off is truly b&w no red hue then sounds like demod circuit. You still have a slight convergence issue but I've seen worse.

Yeah, the convergence issue is pretty bad too, especially around the edges. Here's a picture of the lower part of the screen:

It's supposed to be white text.

So the problems with the TV are as follows:

1) Red gun firing too much/other guns firing too little.

2) Greens are pretty dim, while extremely red reds are pink.

3) Convergence off, especially on the edges.

4) Overall brightness is a little dim.

Is it worth going after all these issues? Is anything at this point a temporary fix anyhow?

Thanks all.

So you guys have run out of advice!

I'm really at a loss about the pink reds and off convergence, can anything even be done about that?

1) with regard to convergence - this is a separate issue. You need to go through the adjustment procedure. For this you need a test pattern and the service info that gives the procedure - but you should be able to improve it.

2) With regard to the color, I think we have reached the limit of what can be diagnosed remotely with the sources you have. You don't have the experience to describe what's going on, and if you did, you wouldn't need us. As others have said, the evidence so far is inconclusive.
If you can get a color bar test pattern and a gray scale pattern to view, that might help diagnose if it's CRT, tracking adjustment, color demod chip or ???

Where are you located (roughly)? Anywhere near someone who could come out and look at it with you?

I see.

I can clearly display a test pattern, but I don't have the service manual. Would someone more experienced than myself know how to fox the convergence?

I'm certainly not knowledgeable about such things, but I can do my best to show the problem.

I could connect my laptop through composite and display any pattern you wish. Would that help?

I see.
I could connect my laptop through composite and display any pattern you wish. Would that help?

Wouldn't hurt to try! Take a look at color bars, try turning color up and down, see if it's really gray with the color off (as it should be), are some colors weak, does it go to pink with the color up similar to your complaint with regular pictures, does the hue/tint control work - just try to get some more info on what the symptoms are.