This is the set I picked up today in Skokie. It's in pretty good shape, but the chassis needs a lot of attention. More than half the tubes are Westinghouse brand, so it' sseen it's fair shape of use. CRT tests good, it's the original 21AXP22A dated 22nd week of 1956.


http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173304&stc=1&d=1329084998

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173305&stc=1&d=1329084998

Very nice. Any chance the previous owner still had the missing cabinet hardware? At any rate it shouldn't be to difficult to find some matching door pulls for that vintage.

is it a "super" or "deluxe"?

Nice set!! Aaah, I'm envious, I want to live in the US :(

To answer the above post. This set has the Deluxe chassis and was the most expensive CTC-5 model RCA offered.

Nick,

Very nice score. Figured you would have to rent a truck or van to transport. Having a good 21AX is a real plus. I see the door pulls in the original Wingate photo posted on the VK classified post. I guess you removed them? Just a tip. Be sure the pencil box door is closed before you close the cabinet doors. I'll look forward to your restoration progress.

-Steve D.

Ah HATE Yew !! -Yosemite Sam, Esq. (grin) Oh, man, sittin' here DROOLIN'....Very Purdy !!

Double thumbs up.

Yes, I had to remove the door pulls when I moved it. They are sitting right here, in a plastic bag along with the HV cage cover.

Yes, I had to remove the door pulls when I moved it. They are sitting right here, in a plastic bag along with the HV cage cover.

Certainly beats getting the pulls broken and damaging "things along the way" such as car interiors, walls, and legs (human that is ;)) Not much more disappointing than having an item that is almost complete and missing those items that are often gone or broken; knobs, pulls, HV cages and backs...

does ne1 have the contrast mod as pdf for ctc5?

Obligatory chassis shot: CTC-5AA

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173314&d=1329187226

This one is odd; there are some caps with leads clipped for no reason, jumpers placed around peaking coils, and other strange 'mods' I can't explain. First order of business is of course a recap, so off I go to the interwebs to search for the multitudes of caps I will need. After that all the tubes need testing, and there is much cleaning to do inside the cabinet.

looks like I have a bunch of era-correct tv tubes that would fit this. RCA, Olympic, Sylvania, etc. let me know if you are having trouble finding any.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x293/bgadow/ContrastMod.jpg

I might have it somewhere saved on the computer; I don't think I ever saved it as a pdf.

Good for hours of fun :)

I'm usually not wild about that "early American" style of furniture -- grew up in a house with way too much of it -- but I would make an exception for that TV.

Phil Nelson

Thank you for posting that, Bryan.

Yes thanks for that video Modification, was having trouble with this on mine , original circuit strange.

looks like I have a bunch of era-correct tv tubes that would fit this.

I'd like to get all RCA stuff of course, if I need anything I'll get in touch with you. :thmbsp:

Thats one nice looking cabinet. I bet it will be a performer.

I like that chassis layout. I've never looked at a 5, that I remember. I think the oldest one I worked on was a CTC-7.

Thats one nice looking cabinet. I bet it will be a performer.

The woodwork is top notch, it's no wonder this was RCA's most expensive offering that year. :yes:

Just got back from the hardware store, $2.50 bought me little self adhesive felts to put under the top glass. Not sure if it came with glass from the factory or the owner had it made, my guess is he had it made to protect the set. I got this from the original owner BTW, still sitting in the same room it was installed in back in 1956. Cable was even still attached to it, suppose I should load up the cell phone pics of the place...


Here's the house.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173320&d=1329257938

Set was down in the basement, doors had to be removed to get it out.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173321&d=1329257938

Still connected to the cable coming out of the wall...

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173322&d=1329257938
http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173323&d=1329257938

Inside the HV cage. I put the variac on it, to make sure it produces HV. Everything seems in order, just very dusty.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173324&d=1329257938

'Couple more shots.

With the back removed. I just realized it's missing the bottom high frequency driver, shouldn't be too hard to locate. I think they are the same as the ones used in later cabinets.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173325&d=1329258346

CRT neck, it's the original.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173326&d=1329258346

All loaded up in the U-Haul truck, heading back to Waukegan.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173327&d=1329258346

No tweeter? JUNK IT. Send it to me!!

No tweeter? JUNK IT. Send it to me!!

What's your address? :D

Sorry, lost my head for a moment...

If I brought a set of that size in my house, I'd have to put it in the kitchen!

Great score Nick! All the best with that DeLuxe 5!! :thmbsp:
Kevin

'
With the back removed. I just realized it's missing the bottom high frequency driver, shouldn't be too hard to locate. I think they are the same as the ones used in later cabinets.



Also the same as used in many mid to late 50s RCA Stereos. I have some somewhere !

Let me know if you find one Colin, we'll meet up at some point I'm sure.

Found ! will drop it off at Bob's .

Excellent, thanks Colin!

Cool set with a cool background. That story reminds me of the place I got my 67 Airline from. Pretty much same story only second floor of the house/Podiatrists office it was installed in and the set still working good enough for reception (if the cursed DTV switch had not ocured before then).

I got this from the original owner BTW, still sitting in the same room it was installed in back in 1956...

Here's the house.
I love seeing this kind of perspective. We are discussing an "antique", very early example of color-TV technology, and its original location. I look at the picture of that house, and to me it is a NEW house. I mean, it is a ranch-style house, and those are post-war... Well, maybe any post-World-War-2 home only always seems "new" to me because in my 51+ years of life I have lived in homes built since the 1920s only about five years total, and in a post-1950 home for less than two years out of those 51.

I'm young compared to the forum sages, they hold the wisdom I don't have but I make up for that with motivation. :yes:


Recapping has begun! Ended up making a Mouser order to the tune of around $70, and that's just the poly caps. I ran out of common ones I already had on hand, so things are at a stand still till UPS stops by. Still need 'lytics as well, but I want to exhaust my existing stock before making another order. Meantime, there's still plenty of chassis cleaning left to do...

For now all I've done is pull the HV cage, so I could get the HV cup out and scrub the bejeezus out of it. They are always disgusting, and this one was no exception. Finished checking the rest of the tubes, turns out the vertical failure was due to a 6AQ5 with only enough emission to budge the needle off it's stop. :D The rest of the tubes test good, but I'll still try to get as many RCA ones as possible into it.

I'm droolin'.....An' GREEN w/envy....

Sandy, you sure that ain't from the leftover porkroast you had for lunch? :)

Great set...the CTC-5 club is getting pretty big!

Sandy, you sure that ain't from the leftover porkroast you had for lunch?

Great set...the CTC-5 club is getting pretty big!

It's interesting how many of these seem to have come out of nowhere. I got mine from a response to a CL ad I placed wanting to buy old round screen color TVs. I've now scored 4 roundies off of that ad, including my CTC5 Chandler.

I think it's because people that are old enough to have bought these sets when new are dying off now.

I did furnace service work for years. I saw alot of basements. There were lots of roundies in the basements.

I think it's because people that are old enough to have bought these sets when new are dying off now. ...

Sad but true. Same thing applies to vintage cars like the Model A Ford. Most of the younger generation isn't interested. The muscle cars are our era and they are way over priced.

Anyway, this set should look nice when working.

That's why I bought a Corvair instead of a Camaro, stealthy cheap performance. lol

Sad but true. Same thing applies to vintage cars like the Model A Ford. Most of the younger generation isn't interested. The muscle cars are our era and they are way over priced.

Anyway, this set should look nice when working.

Maybe now I'll finally be able to afford that 1940 Ford Fordor Deluxe I've always wanted..

Sandy, you sure that ain't from the leftover porkroast you had for lunch? :)

Great set...the CTC-5 club is getting pretty big!

Coulda been, Bryan. Pork does FUNNY things to me-3 times I can eat it & no problems...But about 1 out of ever 4 or 5 times, I'll get Sicker than a Big Bear. Naturally, I LOVE it, but I WILL pay a pretty hefty price....I think its just too rich or something...

That's why I bought a Corvair instead of a Camaro, stealthy cheap performance. lol

I hear you! This is what is in my garage:

http://www.streitsonline.com/don/RedCorvairYard.jpg

Anyway, I follow this tread with great interest...

I hear you! This is what is in my garage:

http://www.streitsonline.com/don/RedCorvairYard.jpg

Anyway, I follow this tread with great interest...

Nader was WRONG....

Same car I have, but I put modern alloy 'turbine' wheels on it. Appropriate, since it has the 180hp turbo option. Being restored in WI right now by TLC:

http://www.tlc-restorations.com/Cars/66corvair/66corvaircorsa.html

BOY, is this off-topic...

We had a 1960 Corvair that ate fan belts. Dad got to be a pro changing them.

I liked the car. Ours was an automatic, and had the gas powered heater.

Mom didnt like it, because of the fumes in the engine compartment.


That red one... is it around a 1966-67?

I hear you! This is what is in my garage:

http://www.streitsonline.com/don/RedCorvairYard.jpg

Anyway, I follow this tread with great interest...

Well..as long as we've strayed off topic this far (sorry miniman82)....you're not the only one with one of those in your garage....have a look at this one in my garage.


http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu143/ampico-kid/CopyofDSCN2213.jpg


Good luck with your CTC-5 restoration.........Bob

Well..as long as we've strayed off topic this far (sorry miniman82)....you're not the only one with one of those in your garage....have a look at this one in my garage.



Good luck with your CTC-5 restoration.........Bob

So what ? We're talkin' about roundie color sets, cars...2 of most of us' Favorite Things... An' besides, Corvairs came out when they had Roundies, so it ain't COMPLETELY outta context...(grin)

Ahh, tube-type color televisions, and old cars. Two of my favorite things...

Mom didn't like it, because of the fumes in the engine compartment.

I didn't have that problem, but one time I drove through a puddle deep enough to hit the exhaust and it instantly made a bunch of steam come out of the vents which caused the windshield to get completely obscured by fog. :nono:



On the TV resto front, I stopped by Bob's place today to get a good pair of 6AQ5's. While there I also picked up a new dial cord for the fine tuning, so now that works again. The old one was completely torn up, it somehow got chewed into 3 different sections. The majority of the replacement caps from Mouser should be here Monday, so I'll be having a pow wow with the chassis. I suppose I might drop it back in the cabinet to see where I'm at after the work is done, so stand by for first screen pics if things go according to plan...

Ahh, tube-type color televisions, and old cars. Two of my favorite things...

Perzacly ! Only thing to make it better MIGHT be a Gun Discussion...Maybe ! (grin)

Wow; terrific find. Said it before--Chicago really is prime early-color territory, isn't it? I came across another Wingate a few years ago at an estate sale in Glenview; it ended up with another VK'er, luckily. I remember lifting up one corner to get a sense of its heft; really heavy--you could feel all that hardwood in the cabinet. Best of luck with it--

Here's my Corvair contribution, a '65 Corsa 140/4spd, posi, power top, etc. Owned it 28 years!

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r314/corvair65/MVC-001S.jpg

Wow; terrific find. Said it before--Chicago really is prime early-color territory, isn't it? I came across another Wingate a few years ago at an estate sale in Glenview; it ended up with another VK'er, luckily. I remember lifting up one corner to get a sense of its heft; really heavy--you could feel all that hardwood in the cabinet. Best of luck with it--

:beerchug::thmbsp:

ey, that's a nice Corsa right there:yes:
still got my 64 chevy impala 230ci 6 hardtop
currently missin my humble lime-green 74 maverick straight-4 250

UPS stopped by about 6 hours ago, been recapping ever since. When I was done, I slid the chassis into the cabinet and held my breath....

3....2....1....

Liftoff! :thmbsp:

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173438&d=1329803226


At first I got nothing but the same horizontal line I had at the house in Skokie (no vertical deflection), but I found the wire feeding B+ to the vertical output had fallen off under the chassis. Tacked it back on, and away we go. Still a lot more to do at this point, but colors on the screen are very encouraging. It means 99% of the circuits are working, but the annoying stuff has yet to be done. All the pots are scratchy, and that means more endless hours with a can of Deoxit. :sigh: I'm learning to hate that.

Also, HV is pretty weak. I only get like 18kv, should be a solid 20. Gonna try tube rolling to see if there are any improvements to be had, and run the horizontal setup procedure. Following that, it needs an alignment. Color bars only come in at the far end of the fine tuning knob, which is the same point audio goes wonky. Think I'll tackle that last...I hate alignments. More tomorrow, I'm pretty beat.

Nice!!!!

I never thought I'd have to get my own to see one working... HINT HINT!!!!

Glorious Lollipop Color ! Well, ALMOST...

Looking great! And, I do understand being "pretty beat". Now, you can relax a little bit since the major (read, "Expensive") parts are known good. Good on 'ya Mate!

I never thought I'd have to get my own to see one working... HINT HINT!!!!

Yeah yeah, I get it. ;3 I'm getting ready at my temporary residence to work on it. I've had it since '08, it's about time to see it light up now that a 21ax is within feet of me:)

There's just SOMETHIN' about a restored & properly set up Color Roundie....You guys know what I mean-And like Ernie said Over Yonder-"For those who Understand, no words are necessary..For those who DON'T, no words will suffice..."

Damn right Sandy!

Hey Mark, you should stop by and help me out with this thing sometime, a helping hand from a fellow Wingate owner is always appreciated!

There's just SOMETHIN' about a restored & properly set up Color Roundie....You guys know what I mean-And like Ernie said Over Yonder-"For those who Understand, no words are necessary..For those who DON'T, no words will suffice..."

Couldn't agree more.....By the end of the week (final exam week for me) I'll FINALLY be working on my CTC-4 again (it is damn hard to pause work on such a rare set when you are as close as I was to having it working 100%).

You pretty close to having a decent color picture on it, Tom? Were you able to use that purity ring I gave you, or am I thinking of someone else? The CTC-4 edge purity magnets won't work on a glass tube, they just aren't strong enough. You need the hairpins on the plastic ring that goes around the CRT bell, that's the correct one to use. I think they were used on CTC-7/9, possibly others.

Hey Mark, you should stop by and help me out with this thing sometime, a helping hand from a fellow Wingate owner is always appreciated!

Sounds good, how about this Friday after I get off work?

Sure, give me a call or something! I work during the daytime now, so whenever you get off I should already be here. Hopefully the 'lytics from AES show up before then, I found 35+ volts of AC ripple in the power supply. That can't be good, hope the new caps calm it down.

You pretty close to having a decent color picture on it, Tom? Were you able to use that purity ring I gave you, or am I thinking of someone else? The CTC-4 edge purity magnets won't work on a glass tube, they just aren't strong enough. You need the hairpins on the plastic ring that goes around the CRT bell, that's the correct one to use. I think they were used on CTC-7/9, possibly others.

That ring was a bit warped, and when I tried to mount the yoke over it the poor thing cracked. It did not seem practical to mount it over the yoke so I'm just going to squirrel it away until I (or someone else) have need for it.

I had good monochrome, and some BADLY miss-adjusted color, was preparing to work on the color and the intermitant RF/IF/AGC issues had the courtesy to become full time bugs. I got the horizontal adjustments decent (I stole a replacement for the lin. slug from my 9-t-246), but never got time to post about it before I lost signal, and another daily driver set to add injury to insult.

Sorry to revisit the derail, but this is my garage.

http://i.imgur.com/yCp71l.jpg (http://imgur.com/yCp71)

Two 1962 Corvair Monza sedans.

Sorry to revisit the derail, but this is my garage.

...
Two 1962 Corvair Monza sedans.

I like the Nixon/Agnew bumper sticker ;)

The 1960 my dad had looked like that grey one, almost... similar color, anyway.

Somebody is going to tell us to get a room if we dont stop this.

Back on topic, sort-of... Whats the deal with the purity ring? Is the one used early on different from what was used on the CTC-7? Thats the oldest one I've laid hands on.

I like the Nixon/Agnew bumper sticker ;)
http://i.imgur.com/Y77hEl.jpg (http://imgur.com/Y77hE)
It has a few more now. This car is my relatively rust eaten daily-driver. I'm not worried about getting some adhesive on it. The silver car is an ongoing project. It's a rust free car from Arizona with 48,000 miles on the original 102hp engine. We repainted it it's original GM color last year, It had been earl scheib'd baby blue some time in the 70's. They didn't even take the bumpers off.
http://i.imgur.com/xti6K.jpg (http://imgur.com/xti6K)

Sorry to derail again. I'm really done this time.

IIRC, the reason GM axed the Corvair in '65 was that it was a "Car unto itself"...Very little interchanged w/any other GM product...And THAT was a big No-No...Gm sent out an edict in'65 that the Corvair was to have NO updates, except Federally mandated ones...In '64, the 1968-69 cars would have been "planning"...The Corvair was quietly let go at the end of the '69 model year.

IIRC, the reason GM axed the Corvair in '65 was that it was a "Car unto itself"...Very little interchanged w/any other GM product...And THAT was a big No-No...Gm sent out an edict in'65 that the Corvair was to have NO updates, except Federally mandated ones...In '64, the 1968-69 cars would have been "planning"...The Corvair was quietly let go at the end of the '69 model year.

It was basically an entire line of vehicles within the Chevy lineup. A coupe, sedan, convertable, panel van, passenger van, station wagon (from 1961-62,) and light duty truck.

It was also one of the most expensive vehicles, in terms of production costs, that GM made at the time, and one of the cheapest they sold. See the problem here?

My dad's family had a Corvair until 1970 when the floors began to rust out, and my grandparents sold it because it was not all that safe for my dad who was 5 at the time or his younger brothers what with the rotten floor and all.

I remember a guy who had a '65 or '66 4-door sedan that I thought was VERY pretty..And my family doctor had a late series convertible...We had a house in North Carolina & both families went over there one weekend. It snowed, & my mom's '67 Mercury Colony Park wagon was HOPELESS in the snow, but that little Corvair went absolutely EVERYWHERE. I was truly impressed. I don't think a Jeep coulda done much better. This was in '68-'69, WAY before 4WD became fashionable.

My dad's family had a Corvair until 1970 when the floors began to rust out, and my grandparents sold it because it was not all that safe for my dad who was 5 at the time or his younger brothers what with the rotten floor and all.

Floor holes are 'unsafe at any speed'! :D


Now for CTC-5 related news- the new FP electrolytics came in the mail today, so I will spend the night replacing them and making the necessary wiring changes to make them work with the chassis. Since it was not possible to get exact replacements, I had to make a compromise.

The stock chassis has:

80uf/40uf@450 volts (x3)
50uf/50uf/5uf@450 volts (x1)

I order the following from AES:

40uf/40uf/40uf@525 volts (x3)
30uf/30uf/30uf/30uf@475 volts (x1)

To make the new ones work, the 40uf/40uf/40uf caps will have a pair of 40uf sections tied together to make them 80/40 cans. The 30/30/30/30 can will get paired as well, so I end up with a 60/60 to replace the original 50/50 one. The remaining 5uf section is only a horizontal output cathode bypass cap, so it's low enough voltage to be replaced by a common axial unit. After all of that, I'll power it up again and see where I stand. Probably will go right into tweaking the tuner and convergence. :thmbsp:

My grandparents was a convertible, and was one of the ONLY vehicles that was still operable during the infamous 67' Chicago blizzard. I hear tell that whenever they went to pickup a stranded relative they would end up with five passengers.

Hard to fit 5 in any 'Vair, but it's possible. VW's are also great in the snow, I've gone through some pretty impassable stuff in mine. The traction is a result of having a lot of weight centered over the rear axle, same as with the Corvair. Plus if you get stuck, eventually the heat blowing out from the engine will melt whatever you got stuck in. lol

Hey Nick! Sorry about yesterday, I had to work from 3am to 3:30pm on one hour of sleep. I passed out before I could call or message you. I'm free all day Sunday, I'm at work again right now playin' with my MacBook pro..... :3

Yeah, stop by. I'm free after 12 in the afternoon.

:tears: :tears: :tears:

Cans all replaced, but now there's smoke signals coming from the HV cage....

:tears: :tears: :tears:

Hopefully it's something I did, please God let it NOT be the flyback.

1964 Ydstk mentions Corvair

K, as it happens there was nothing wrong with the flyback. As usual I induced my own fault during cap replacement, a glob of solder had dripped down and lodged itself on one of the background pots. That caused all the B+ boost voltage to be shorted to ground via a 10k 1/2 watt resistor, which eventually cried uncle to let me know where the problem was. That was the source of the smoke that looked like it was coming from the cage. :D Removed the solder glob, replaced the 10k resistor, and put a new damper in as a precaution (it went cherry on me from the short). Here's what the replacement can caps look like in the chassis.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173548&d=1330666104

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173549&d=1330666104

After the cans were in and I was sure the chassis wasn't going to go Cheech and Chong on me again (up in smoke), I put it back in to see where I was at. Big disappointment. In order to get any picture at all, fine tuning had to be at the extreme left. Things were jumbled up, sync sucked, and the colors were all wrong. Too many problems at once, so it had to be a common fault throwing the whole thing off. Out came the chassis again to have a look at the alignment with the 415, which I'm beginning to really like using.

First thing I noticed is that no matter what I did to try and tune in the signal, it was always skewed off to one side and frequency response was terrible. I tried what the manual suggested and attempted to tweak the osc in the tuner and also tried the slug for the channel I was on (4), but no joy at all. This issue was still global in nature because it happened on any channel, so the problem was in the tuner or IF. It ended up being the core for the fine tuning coil had been tampered with; a few little turns put all my channels back where they should be, so I moved on to IF response.

IF response actually wasn't too bad, but the tuner link was jacked. After sweep aligning those and making the peaks in the curve look right, I had a look at chroma response which only needed a slight tweak to the right side to get perfect. About 1.5 hours, and I was satisfied with the tuner/IF stuff. Chassis went back into the cabinet for a check. Another big disappointment: now I had nothing but a blank white screen...hmmm, had I completely gone wrong with the alignment?

Nope, this problem ended up being the audio tube which was removed for alignment because it was causing strange interference with the signals. It was the buzz going through the speaker wires that radiated into the IF strip when the cover was off that was the problem, so I'd taken it out. Because it's part of the power supply circuit, I suspected putting it back in would have an effect. Boy, was I right! The bottom half of the audio output tube feeds the plate circuit of the 1st video amp (it's a sort of voltage divider I think), so no wonder it wasn't getting a picture. With the audio output back in and the IF shield installed, this is what I got!
:banana:

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173550&d=1330667288

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173551&d=1330667288


Huge improvement now, it's starting to look like a real color TV. All the picture noise from before was now gone, and the fine tuning works like a champ. Colors lock solid right away, and sync is rock stable in vert and horizontal. Things that still need to be done to get the picture perfect:

1. CRT hasn't been degaussed at all, which is the reason for the random impurities with the color bars.

2. convergence is slightly off, but not enough to make me want to mess with it at this point.

3. The color bars on the left are not correct, which likely means the CW driver transformer needs a touch or two. I will probably perform a full chroma alignment on it, to make double sure things are in order.

4. I still only have about 18kv on the CRT anode, which causes the picture to bloom pretty bad at high brightness. Everything in the horizontal section looks good for right now, so I'm suspecting the HV regulator is not at the correct set point. Since this set has fixed HV regulation, I will have to mod the grid circuit of the 6BK4 to add a pot so I can adjust HV into range. It's pretty simple, just copy and paste the fixed 1.5m resistor and 500k pot in from the CTC-7 schematic. It goes from the grid to ground, shunting the B+ boost away and changing the bias of the tube. Hopefully I can get it to conduct less, and HV will come up a bit. I will monitor shunt reg cathode current before attempting this mod, to confirm my suspicions.

5. Probably need to go through the CRT drives, to make sure grey scale tracking is spot on.

Hopefully after all that, I'll be able to post a proper set of Wingate color bars. :thmbsp:

Lookin' good Nick :yes: I'm glad it wasn't anything major.

"go Cheech and Chong on me" - I gotta remember that :smoke:

Thanks Bob, so am I.

So I tried installing the HV pot, but it didn't make any difference. Even with the regulator not drawing any current at all with the set at minimum brightness, it still didn't go over 18kv. Also bumped up the horizontal drive by changing the value of a resistor on the horizontal board, but no dice- still only 18kv. I know the CTC-5 chassis is known to be a little on the weak side, but are they so weak they aren't able to put out the 20kv called for in the manual? Nothing I try seems to work, but at least horizontal output tube cathode current is staying under 200ma. If it turns out the HV really is weak and that's just the way it is, I guess I'll just have to live with it. But I'd prefer if I could get the full 20kv, I think it would bring a little more brightness to the table.

I suppose I could try one of those more efficient stick HV rectifiers, but I doubt I'd get 20kv even with that. Need ideas.

I suppose I could try one of those more efficient stick HV rectifiers, but I doubt I'd get 20kv even with that. Need ideas.

If all else fails you could always try and beat your HV issues with a stick (er um rectifier that is). lol. If you don't have one I have some sort of HV rectifier that may or may not be made for ultor application. I seem to recall that raising screen voltage can help HV issues.

Glad your fly didn't blow.

If anything, the screen voltages are a little high. With the brightness control at minimum, there's still a slight image on screen. The HV just needs to be stronger, there's no way it should be sagging like it is. I'm trying to get more info on the drive waveform, I think it might not have enough amplitude to drive the output tube hard enough. Right now I'm looking at about 150v p-p, and thinking there should be more. 200v p-p sounds more like it, but I know little about this chassis.

Today after I got the CT-100 cabinet settled in the living room, I worked installing horizontal drive and HV adjust pots. I put them on a piece of phenolic, mounted to the chassis with standoffs. I am now able to get a full 19.5kv, but am unsure what the horizontal cathode current is doing because I ran out of meters to attach to the chassis. :D After I get back from church, I'll check cathode current to see what it's doing. Hopefully it's OK, and I can put this issue to rest.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173587&d=1330904252

Good news! The Wingate has been running pretty well for the past week or so, so I'm calling this one done. Between adjusting the horizontal drive and HV pots I installed, I was able to get a reliable 19.5kv anode under most viewing conditions. Sams shows a 110v p-p drive waveform as being correct, I ended up with 140v p-p because it made a greater amount of HV. The increased drive did not cause a drive line to appear. The horizontal cathode current settled right around 205ma, which is higher than I would like to see, but since the flyback is running pretty cool I'm just gonna leave it. The HV pot is almost at maximum (minimum current draw from the regulator), so 6BK4's should last forever in this set. :D You could just about run without one and be fine, but I left it in for safety.

I've come to the same conclusion as everyone else with this chassis: HV production is simply pathetic. At anything more than moderate brightness the picture blooms, HV sags, and the raster shrinks horizontally. It's impossible to get more than 20kv from the HV supply even with the 6BK4 removed, though HV does improve the longer the set operates. My suggestion to CTC-5 owners: it'll never make a bright picture, so thank your lucky stars RCA saw fit to put these chassis in the most aesthetically pleasing cabinets of all time. A fair trade, all things considered. :yes:

Sounds like a wrap to me Nick. :thmbsp: And I very much like your H drive and HV adjust mods. Next time you are over here you will have to draw the mods on my Sams for me.

And also remember as the young wipper snapper that you are, you have been used to watching modern day tv sets that were more capable of producing a decent picture in a moderately lit room. Back in the day (yes I go that far back) us old farts were used to watching color tv in the evening, during prime time when colorcasts from the network were likely to be seen, and it was common to watch in a dimly lit (if not completely dark) room. So an expremely bright picture was not all that necessary. (IE: we didn't have to turn the brightness up so far that the picture was apt to bloom) In fact lots of people who had nearly dead picture tubes would postpone replacing the crt for years by letting the set warm up for a long period of time and then watching in a totally dark room so they could see the dim image on the weak crt.

As a matter of fact, the picture actually looked better in a dimly lit room with the brightness at a low level. I made it a practice to keep the brightness down to a low level to help extend the life of the picture tube. (don't know if it made any difference on the extended life but it seemed to make sense to me as a young kid of 17 when we got our first color set)

Best room lighting is nothing shining on the face, and a "TV lamp" dimly illuminating the wall behind the set. The CRT is too reflective and the picture too dim to compete with general room lighting.

just googled this, (no recommendation intended):
http://www.tvlamps.net/

I made it a practice to keep the brightness down to a low level to help extend the life of the picture tube. (don't know if it made any difference on the extended life but it seemed to make sense to me as a young kid of 17 when we got our first color set)
I have also done this since I got my first color TV in 1979. My method was always to start with the contrast at minimum (and brightness set for proper black level), then increase the contrast to the least amount I thought I could live with. Usually this was less than halfway up.

Sounds like a wrap to me Nick. :thmbsp: And I very much like your H drive and HV adjust mods. Next time you are over here you will have to draw the mods on my Sams for me.

Sure thing Bob, though I had to mod my chassis to work as well as your unmodded one. I think mine had a lot more play time on it, so more parts drifted in value. Based on the voltage readings I took last time I was up your way, I think your set is just fine as is. I don't like the idea of fixed values for h-drive and HV, fiddling has always been my preference. Like tuning an engine for best performance, I can't leave well enough alone. :D

And also remember as the young wipper snapper that you are, you have been used to watching modern day tv sets that were more capable of producing a decent picture in a moderately lit room. Back in the day (yes I go that far back) us old farts were used to watching color tv in the evening, during prime time when colorcasts from the network were likely to be seen, and it was common to watch in a dimly lit (if not completely dark) room. So an expremely bright picture was not all that necessary. (IE: we didn't have to turn the brightness up so far that the picture was apt to bloom) In fact lots of people who had nearly dead picture tubes would postpone replacing the crt for years by letting the set warm up for a long period of time and then watching in a totally dark room so they could see the dim image on the weak crt.

I understand the low lighting thing, but I'm approaching it more from the standpoint of trying to understand why RCA would go from building a chassis with very good HV production (CTC-4) to something that by comparison was quite anemic. My Director 21 and 21-CT-55 both make a full and very dangerous 25kv, and are both able to drive the CRT to acceptable brightness levels even by modern standards. It seems to me that RCA took a step backwards with the CTC-5, by designing a chassis that was simply not capable of driving the CRT hard enough to produce even moderate brightness.

Some have said that RCA realized their mistake in the HV department, since all the later chassis had stiffer HV sections by comparison and were all more capable of producing high brightness than the CTC-5 chassis was. The CTC-5 has a stated HV of 19.5kv, CTC-7 comes in at 22.5kv (23.5 for the ones with silicon in the LV power supply), CTC-9 is 22.5kv, and later chassis went back to the full 25kv of the early models (CTC-16 thru CTC-20). So it seems on the surface that they made an error in judgement, but there may be a reason for their decision. We know that the CTC-5 had 2 distinct lines, both low cost entry level sets and the TOTL stuff. Since chassis tend to share parts on a generational basis, it's entirely possible that the 5 and 5N chassis only had the same HV sections because it was the most cost effective thing to do (parts bin swapping, as it's known). Then again, one could argue that when you make a TOTL set, you put top quality circuits in it. To counter that argument, perhaps they spent all their money with the 5N on it's more complicated chroma circuits and fancy cabinets. Seems an interesting discussion to have.

I have always wondered why RCA went from the 25KV of the 21CT55 to the 19.5KV of the CTC-5. When did the big TV radiation controversy come about? Could it have been a reaction to the radiation concerns? Or was this before the radiation concerns arose?

It is a shave the CTC-5s don't perform better, that Wingate is one beautiful set! Wish I had one. :-)

I remember X-ray warnings in the mid to late 1960's. I've got several 6BK4's and 3A3's with the leaded glass.

I believe I've seen X-RAY warnings on original 1B3 tubes from the 50s, especially Philco branded by Sylvania. Don't know when the controversy began with CRT's. My CTC-4 generates about .4 millirems/Hr measured with the Geiger tube directly up to the safety glass, with a pure white screen.