A friend (VK'er raddios) just picked up this GE 21C3461 and stopped by on his way home with it. Here are a few photos I snapped a few photos out in the cold dark night.

Not only is it in great cosmetic condition, but it actually works fairly well.
Check out that huge speaker :D

Can anyone clue us in on this set ? Is power tuning an early remote control system ? I presume that's what the lower chassis is for :scratch2:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7172/6834419633_ec55d90bc0_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6834419633/) http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7034/6834419349_86124d21fc_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6834419349/) http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7155/6834419939_5c31d5cc9b_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6834419939/)

http://www.videokarma.org/picture.php?albumid=558&pictureid=3239

Here's a closeup of the lower chassis.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7173/6834524999_b3358aa2bb_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6834524999/)

Boy, that brings back memories. My dad bought a similar one when I was 5 or so. I broke the channel-knob shaft (it was made of white plastic or nylon). It came with a remote that was reverse-painted on the top, very nice looking, with a keyboard along one side. It was so much fun pushing the channel buttons around the tuning knob and watching it rotate to catch up. The tuner drive made a thunk-thunk-thunk with a healthy 60 Hz motor sound resonating through the cabinet frame. When it got to the selected channel, the key popped out with a clack. It had a round speaker, IIRC.

I do remember it being troublesome, and my dad only kept it for about 3 years. I remember watching the show "Camouflage" every weekday in Portland during the summer of '62 on it before I'd go out to play with the othr kids. After we moved back to Seattle that fall, he sold it to a brother-in-law who used to use the phrase "it has a blue tube" a lot. Our next two sets were 23" Silvertones from the Sears store just blocks away.

That is one fine example of General Electric's "Coaxial" atomic age sets. The 9"x21" speaker and the RF remote are notable and unique features.

The remote control unit looks and operates similar to a garage door opener. Maybe some one has a memory of these receiving stray signals and coming on, changing channels, etc.

The CRT looks fairly good. I had a 21C3585 and now have the 21C3580 pictured below. The CRTs were soft on both.

I have the complete factory manual for this, PM me if interested.173259

173260se

Thanks for the info. It would be neat to track down a remote control and get it working.

And you have the remote option! Well, part of it. Do I hear $15,000?

http://www.atomicwarehouse.com/more.cfm?productid=1930&categoryid=3

And you have the remote option! Well, part of it. Do I hear $15,000?

http://www.atomicwarehouse.com/more.cfm?productid=1930&categoryid=3

Perhaps he will get his prices if he shares what he is smoking with potential buyers.....:scratch2:

When I was a kid we had a 1958 B&W GE with power tuning. That was a wired system. The channel selector had thirteen buttons. Push your button and the thing clacked around clockwise stopping on your channel. Each button could be turned back and forth for individual channel fine tuning. My folks didn't buy the wired remote but I made one that changed channels, adjusted volume, and muted. It was not the greatest set and the pic tube went dim and got replaced after not long.

I love that oval speaker!

"Perhaps he will get his prices if he shares what he is smoking with potential buyers....."

That dude sure is wacky and his store is right down the street from where I work!

I went in there once and asked he wanted to buy some of my stuff, seeing his pricing and all. He only wants "flawless stuff" and would probably chew you down for a faded rear label, etc

When I was a kid we had a 1958 B&W GE with power tuning. That was a wired system. The channel selector had thirteen buttons. Push your button and the thing clacked around clockwise stopping on your channel. Each button could be turned back and forth for individual channel fine tuning. My folks didn't buy the wired remote but I made one that changed channels, adjusted volume, and muted. It was not the greatest set and the pic tube went dim and got replaced after not long.

What was your parents reaction to the home made remote? Were they impressed, skeptical, or ticked that some haphazard contrivance was plugged into their TV?

DavGoodlin "Perhaps he will get his prices if he shares what he is smoking with potential buyers....."

That dude sure is wacky and his store is right down the street from where I work!

I went in there once and asked he wanted to buy some of my stuff, seeing his pricing and all. He only wants "flawless stuff" and would probably chew you down for a faded rear label, etc

Sounds like a somkin' loon.:smoke::screwy:

I've run into that guy at various sales now, and got to see what he pays for those items before he marks them up for his shop. He told me he has an entire warehouse with several hundred televisions that make up his own collection. He seems nice enough, but the way he does business seems insane to most people. But he DOES seem to sell stuff...

He may be selling to interior decorators. If a client is burning through $300K (or whatever) to redecorate, $1K or $2K for a TV is nothing. Just another accent piece.

Phil Nelson

Funai,

He does seem to be selling some good looking radios on Harrisburg Craigslist from his collection. Still pricey but not outrageous.

http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/atq/2797017763.html

I'm near you and may take a ride out to HBG to see what his shop is all about.

And Phil, Harrisburg and interior decorators cannot be used in the same sentence. I have some very wealthy friends and not a radio in sight in the den. One friend did just sell his James Bond Aston-Martin for charity though. It was in his basement in it's own display room. $4 mil.

There was a recent article in the local paper about the shop entering foreclosure proceedings. After that, he appears to have branched out to Craigslist. It is well worth reading the reviews about this store-I guess the owner can be a bit moody at times.

Tom C wrote:What was your parents reaction to the home made remote?

They were fine with it. :yes: I was in High School and had been working on and building and fixing radios since I was in the third grade. I had already built Heathkits, etc. The control was in a plastic box with two buttons for channel and mute, and a rheostat of sorts to control volume. It all plugged into a socket on the back of the TV.

Here are pictures of the RF remote for my 21C3580.
The paint is worn from the embossed faceplate.
Neat symbol :grnbounce

9 volt battery, two ferrite bars and one socketed transistor.

173281

173282

Thanks. Now we have an idea what to look for :)

Thanks. Now we have an idea what to look for :)

I would look on eBay under "Transistor Radio" :D

Seriously, that's probably going to be a really hard one to find!

Good idea, transistor radio, especially because of the 9V battery.

Hell of it is, I remember a few of them in a box I had. The one above is one of those. I will get looking through my forgotten boxes.

The TV was a curb rescue and it did not have the remote with it, of course.

I would look on eBay under "Transistor Radio"

I'd also look under "garage door remote".

A remote finally popped up on ebay and my friend took a shot at it. Unfortunately, $255 was a bit over his budget :yikes:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-1959-GENERAL-ELECTRIC-GE-TV-WIRELESS-REMOTE-CONTROL-FOR-COAXIAL-TV-/221136881461

about as rare as hens teeth!

The comment about the Finn Juhl possible design of the cabinets of some models was interesting. I still haven't gotten over the '60 GE Danish set I found with a huge oval speaker on each side, and that fantastic cabinet. Next time I saw it, it was gutted for shelves.

I love that oval speaker!

Same here! I thought it was a 4 x 7 until I got a sense of scale from the tuner in front, I've never seen an oval speaker that size before! Great looking set.

thats a good looking tv ,and nice shape too.

A remote finally popped up on ebay and my friend took a shot at it. Unfortunately, $255 was a bit over his budget :yikes:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-1959-GENERAL-ELECTRIC-GE-TV-WIRELESS-REMOTE-CONTROL-FOR-COAXIAL-TV-/221136881461

Wow, looks like I need to list mine.....

Flash forward a couple years and I am now the proud owner of this GE coaxial TV :D

Unfortunately it's condemned to the garage until I can make some room for it. Meanwhile here are some photos...
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3948/15561666066_d539f1d9cf_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pH8Bam) https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5606/15582694211_7a2acc69d5_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pJZo6z)

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3937/15561666566_d5097dcf7e_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pH8BiY) https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3939/15586189732_03fd11d191_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pKiicb)

Even better, after many months of searching and losing out on to auctions, I finally scored a remote control :banana:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7542/15662100449_6245862f1b_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pS1mND) https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7542/15225838504_601a2acd89_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pcspjY)

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7529/15848475215_b99b702272_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/q9tzwF) https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7505/15228802833_cc26e06f9f_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pcHAw6)

I popped in a 9 v battery and was able to pick up a signal by laying a scope probe near the unit. Probing directly inside resulted in these two waveforms.

Carrier around 325 kHz
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7545/16014416305_953da85489_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qp952X)

AM modulation around 400 Hz
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7581/15827158400_099b761fa9_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/q7AjMo)

I wasn't sure it was working correctly until I found very in depth info in Riders vol 27. Here's the schematic. Clever how they got a single transistor to oscillate both at RF and audio frequencies.

Once I get the TV set inside, I'll find out if it really works :yes:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7519/15828500579_6e6247e9a4_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/q7HcLp)

That remote transmitter is neat, GE was always good with "Doing More With Less" AKA maximizing profit margin :)

...GE was always good with "Doing More With Less"..
I thought that wuz Muntz.

:D

No Mad Man Muntz did less with less....

I have a very interested part in this set so I pulled it in to check it out. First though, I wanted to get the caster wheels off it.

They sure appear to be original or at least very old. Strange thing is though that the front wheels do not swivel and are lock at 90 degrees to the front.
So you can really only move it front to back - not sideways! Not surprisingly, there are flat spots worn on those wheels.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1470/25333724826_7bbe22ba87_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EADXM5) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1685/25241646222_dd5fc34e73_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Esw31W)

I knew the former owner had been using it shortly before I got it so wasn't really concerned about powering it up.

So, does the remote work ? Sort of. First I had to enabled it via a switch near the antenna terminals and let the tubes warm up.
I was able to get it to turn on and off a few times by holding the remote vey near the receiver. I could hear the receiver buzzing when I tried channel and volume but no action.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1496/24992263559_90fa6989a1_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/E5tTeR)

After a little horizontal hold twiddling, I was able to get a stable picture with good sound :)

The power tuning feature is very cool but a little flaky. The idea is you depress a tab for the desired station and a motor will rotate to the channel.
It rotates alright, but often overshoots the station or continues to go round and round all the channels.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1700/25450335696_35b2ac2d9f_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ELXC8j)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1535/24992262019_dbdaf0ea99_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/E5tSMi) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1688/25333719316_3c5760d12f_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EADW95)

It appears to have a tag dated 12-57 which seems a little too early to me. The Sams I have for this GE "M5" chassis is dated 11-59.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1584/25340220122_7e63652a41_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EBefAW)

Here's a look inside
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1639/24828092064_f8bddfbd03_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DPYsLQ)

I quickly noticed the CRT is a replacement. A 21FAP4 to be specific. The original was a 21ESP4. The 21FAP4 is pretty much electrically compatible, but has a 1" shorter neck - just like a Predicta. Now that got me thinking...

It just so happens I have another GE coaxial set which had a dead CRT into which I installed a NOS 21ESP4. The set should have a 21CEP4.

I also recently took on a Predicta Pedestal restoration job. It has a nearly dead original Phico 21EAP4 CRT.

Now here's where things get interesting because I also have a NOS 21CEP4.

So what I propose is this. Remove the 21ESP4 from my other set and install the correct 21CEP4. Install that 21ESP4 into this set and put the 21FAP4 into the Predicta.

That way, both GE coaxial sets have the correct and very strong CRT types and the Predicta gets a new lease on life. Sure is going to be a lot of work though :drool:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1478/25181068660_d3fb5bf5eb_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Enayqd)

The date on the tag, was the last time it was revised. They probably used it for years. :scratch2:

Sure is going to be a lot of work though :drool:


You'll have that all done in about a half an hour. :)

Closer to a couple days ;)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1669/25213630130_4eb2ca49a3_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Eq3rNS)

21FAP4 about to come out.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1670/25213626320_7690c69c8e_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Eq3qFb)

I think the short necked 21FAP4 (back) will be more at home in a Predicta :yes:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1449/24878695174_e44e25bb0b_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DUrPjf)

Transplanted 21ESP4 working very well :)
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1474/25509240295_397edc4077_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ESawpR)

Now to get to work on the dusty chassis.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1519/24878696984_f58f99df34_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DUrPRs)

I've finally got the chassis up on the workbench. I cleaned and lubed up the complicated tuner mechanism and it's working better now.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1643/26118774386_b10afd5514_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FN2xEj) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1527/26118773506_2c62078cb7_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FN2xp9)

I also pulled out the sweep board and recapped it. I find these boards much more difficult to remove and install than those in Predictas. The wires are heavier gauge and many are soldered on.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1476/26052241742_d2450a84ab_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FG9xPL) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1664/26118771266_22611f5e45_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FN2wJw)

There are parts lurking under here too!
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1546/25871885830_67492de555_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Fqdbi5) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1566/25871884870_c47ab63076_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Fqdb1w) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1692/26078405991_3b77b27ee6_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FJsDxv)

Working even better now so it's onto the IF board.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1625/25540115004_8f099313cc_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EUTLoq)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1478/26078539771_b9655ea3c6_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FJtkj4)

What a colossal pain in the butt to get out!
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1668/26078538871_f07022064d_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FJtk3x) https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1695/25540112484_7b1ebf1324_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EUTKCY)

Once that's done, I'll dig into the remote control receiver box.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1605/25872016910_bd1fee9aba_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FqdRg5)

Here's what I found inside that remote receiver.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1666/26127671266_af482cd5e5_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FNP9oN)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1502/26087278551_e73f062dd9_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FKf83F)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1625/25550967313_4c12a1f6b2_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EVRopc)

Here's the schematic for the curious. The heart of it is a reed relay assembly that trips one of four relays depending on the receiver frequency.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1636/25880921750_2b781eed1e_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Fr1umN)

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5606/15582694211_7a2acc69d5_z.jpg
Looks like they inserted a portable/ tabletop set into a console. It would make sense if they wanted to make a console that wasn't a deep box.

They used this same M4/M5 chassis in a lot of models including some portable 17" sets. The remote option seems like an after thought as the receiver cable is wedged under the back where they left some screws off

I was able to get the remote control partially working by tweaking the slugs in the remote control. A recap of the receiver got all the functions working :) I'm so glad the volume motor is still good!
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1661/26206738152_24e487a280_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FVNodY)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1548/25642731963_8728f4398e_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/F4XGQk)

One bad thing though is the latching power relay is flaky. I tried tweaking the contacts a little and made it even worse so now I'm looking for a replacement.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1500/25694305334_9f7c782282_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/F9w2No)


Unfortunately, it seems to be an oddball relay. They call it a latching relay with overload protection. More specifically, I think it's a ratchet or impulse relay. Each time the coil is pulsed, the relay toggles it's contacts and stays that way until another pulse is applied. The coil runs on 120 VAC.

I believe this Omron G4Q-212S AC100/(110) could work but it's a little pricey.
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/307/g4q_ds_csm44-598708.pdf

$105 from Allied Electrons or about $75 on Amazon.

Any suggestions ?

Maybe something like this?

http://a1parts.com/relays/images/660-C120A.jpg

It's way down at the bottom of this page.

http://a1parts.com/relays/index.html

Alternately you could build a flip flop circuit to run a normal relay.

Those GE Coaxial sets were excellent when they were new. I had relatives in Georgia who owned one (theirs had power tuning as does this one), and theirs pulled in signals (three stations at that time) from Chattanooga, 50-some miles away (my relatives lived in Dalton), using, if I remember correctly after all these years (I was just a kid, no more than perhaps eight or nine years old, when they had this TV), a large Rembrandt all-channel rabbit-ears antenna. The pictures were great and the sound was unlike anything I had ever heard before in a TV set, probably, even likely, owing to that huge oval speaker in the base of the cabinet and perhaps a powerful audio stage, with a couple of push-pull 6V6 tubes.

As I always say about Zeniths and will say now about the GE Coaxial TVs, they don't make them like that anymore. The Coaxial is one of the first TVs I've ever seen with a speaker that big; another was my grandmother's 16" GE console, with an equally large speaker in the base of the cabinet, directly below the CRT, and yet another was my Zenith K-2739 console which had a large 6x9 oval speaker in the same location.

GE should have put a switch in the audio stages so the amplifier and that huge speaker could be used with an external phonograph turntable, or with a changer like the RCA 45-EY-3 45 RPM one; no sense using all that fidelity just for TV sound, IMHO. My folks had an RCA Victor changer like that which they used with their 21-inch RCA Victor TV. That phono jack was a standard feature, or so it seemed at the time, of RCA's 1950s-era televisions; several other manufacturers may have taken them up on the idea before the end of the decade, as many other makes of TVs and radios had the phonograph input on the rear apron of the chassis, with a switch to select radio or phonograph either near that jack or on the front panel, as part of the volume or tone control or as a separate slide switch. Today's flat screens have RCA jacks to permit connecting them to an external stereo system, but even then the sound cannot possibly hold a candle to the excellent sound quality of the old '50s console TVs. Once again, they don't make them like that anymore.

Actually, there is a phono jack and switch on the back of this set :)

Hmm, who would have thought that Walmart would carry impulse relays ? http://www.walmart.com/ip/DAYTON-1EGU4-Relay-Sequencing-DPDT-120VAC-Coil-Volts/41243688

No...they DON"T make 'em like that anymore...one MORE reason we like to SAVE them--as many as we can...from the jaws of the PACKER TRUCKS !!

Do NOT have any of the "big GE coaxial" models'..but I DO have a pair of portables...with pretty much the same cold chassis, M4 or M5 !!

Hmm, who would have thought that Walmart would carry impulse relays ? http://www.walmart.com/ip/DAYTON-1EGU4-Relay-Sequencing-DPDT-120VAC-Coil-Volts/41243688

That relay comes from a company called Zoro. But hey, they have everything else, even caskets. So why not. Wonder if I would get my discount on marketplace items? I'll have to ask.

I've settled on this sequenced relay from McMaster Carr for about $22. Gonna order up some other goodies while I'm at it including some rubber strip material for cushioning CRTs, rubber feet and some metal end caps for Predicta arms :yes:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#6784t112/=11wetu8

The impulse relay showed up today. I'm going to have to get a little creative to mount it somewhere :scratch2:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1500/25796520574_0b0cc76134_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FixUQ7)

Looks to be a industrial DIN rail mount part...

I'm still plugging away at this set. I finally went to install the relay a few days ago and discovered I had ordered the wrong one :thumbsdn:

The correct one arrived today and I wired it up by running some wires through the mounting hole of the old relay. I hope to fire it up tomorrow.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7560/27016590831_cfdbf142b0_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Han6dc)

The relay works like a charm so I mounted it in the cabinet using a bit of DIN rail and put the set all back together.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7661/26848255400_05b2dd3185_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GUujXb) https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7348/26516831914_8c6acbdffc_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GpcGi9)

It's new owner is coming to pick it up tomorrow morning. I hope he gets many years or enjoyment out of it :yes:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7301/26848255880_101075a4eb_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GUuk6s)