http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1989-SONY-Indextron-KVX-370-Watch-CUBE-Portable-CRT-Television-TV-WORKS-/310348070739?_trksid=p4340.m1374&_trkparms=algo%3DPI.WATCH%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3D UCC%26otn%3D15%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D461883157929608 3553

I wonder for how long? This is the first one I've seen that actually WORKS, before being redone. But look at that price! :yikes:

Why, that's a Bar-Gain at Twicet th' Price !! Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis ?!? (grin)

It's cool.... but let's face it... That Sony was a POS. And I'll probably offend some, but not unlike the CT-100 being a POS.
The Sony was cool, but didn't hold up and hardly any of them work, unless being done over, hence what makes it rare to collectors.
It's the same with the CT-100. I've seen a CT-100 in operation, and yes.. stunning picture.. and the utmost in cool to own one, but in its day... a flub.
RCA cranked it out, and realized the picture tube was a huge flaw, which is why they developed something else ASAP and never used that design again. So.. cool to us collectors, but a ticking time-bomb.. just like an Indextron.
I guess I'm just on a rant, because the coolest sets that we all want to own, basically are because of the rarity, due to the design flaws within the sets themselves...

If there's a bunch of something it can't be rare... and lots of something don't hang around if tons were sold and tons are still working. Look at the Hammond Novachord... same scenario.

-J

well.. to a point.
Most people collect an item from their youth. So mainly items that were mass produced, but were thrown out in droves when something better came along, or the item was replaced. So as the years go by, it's rare to see that item, and if you get enough people looking for it..well.. you know the rest.
I do laugh when looking under the "collectable" section on CL. So many many "Franklin Mint" items. You gotta love how companies like that market the items as RARE, and limited production, then you have these poor fools listing them, not realizing they are worth pennies on the dollar what they paid.
I'd have to say the CT-100 IS pretty rare tho. (because of its inherant flaws) but hey.. it was the 1st color set mass produced for the consumer market, and RCA had to start somewhere. It's because of the issues they had with it that they made something better.
The indextron was just an ODD techie toy.....

Yeah, you just gotta ask yrself "WTF ?" when it comes to the Indextron...Did it offer as good , or better picture than the existant Trinitron ? Was it cheaper to produce/sell ? Was it as/more reliable than the Trinitron ? It must have been some Big Shot at Sony's personal Wet Dream-They HAD to have lost a BUNDLE on the Indextron program, not to mention what they lost in PRESTIGE & REPUTATION when they tried to get 'em all back & stuff...

It seems to me that the Indextron had the potential for improvements over conventional shadow mask design.

1. No shadow mask... Increased brightness.
2. One gun design... No convergence problems.
3. Simplified beam landing requirements... Shorter, higher deflection angles possible.

So why did S0ny fail? Were the sets really turkeys?

jr

...

I have a Vidimagic that uses an Indextron tube. Even in complete darkness it's a piece. Extremely dim picture that strains my eyes... I feel sorry for it, which is the only reason I keep it around.

Beam landing is actually very tricky on these because it's easy for the beam to miss the correct color stripe if the timing is off. It also requires razor sharp focus which limits brightness, and causes the color to degrade as the CRT ages. I've never seen on of these with very good purity. Even at 3.7", they require dynamic focus, and two horizontal deflection circuits to maintain precise horizontal linearity.

Good points ... THANKS!
I guess that I had assumed that the sweep rate was somehow re-adjusted on a micro basis as a result of the information provided by the index stripes, but that must have been impractical at that time with analog circuits. :scratch2:

jr

I can't be sure, but in early September, 2011 a black Indextron sold for $304.00 on Ebay by a Canadian seller who said that the set had a replacement antenna and it was working.

You can see in one of the photos that this is a Canadian set and the antenna is a replacement. If it were original, it would have a black outer sleeve. This set was listed for a month at $975.00 with no takers.

What makes this set so interesting to collectors is that it is*the one and only stand alone working Index beam television to make it to market anywhere in the world. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. (* Only beam index set sold to the public) Hitachi 1 1/2 inch index color viewfinder and Sony Vidimagic excluded.

Before y'all think that I DON'T like Indextrons, though, just Hide in the dam Bushes 'n' WATCH how fast I'd make that on on Evilbay mine if I had the Do-Re-Me...By the Bye, theres also a Zenith Stratosphere from 1936 that I'd about sell my soul for...But my soul wouldn't bring the $15K he wants for it...(grin)

I have a working one, but I'm not impressed with the picture as compared to the 3.7" Trinitron tube. Poor contrast. To find a working one is nearly impossible unless it's been recapped, and once they blow, the IC which blows, is no longer available.

I have mine for the same reason I have a 1982 Cadillac Diesel that RUNS. I don't watch the Indextron because it will probably fail the next time I try to turn it on, and I don't drive the Cadillac because it already is pushing 2000 miles on the head gaskets, which is borrowed time ;-).

Charles

2K miles on a set of head gaskets ? SOMEBODY up there LIKES-or hates you Charles, dependin' on how you wanna look at it...(grin)

HAHA Charles!
Ya.. I wouldn't turn down a working Indextron or a CT-100. I tend to like things that in hind site, weren't the manufactures best choice to put on the market.
The CT-100 can be forgiven because hey... it WAS RCA's 1st attempt
The Indextron.... well, if Sony would have had a decent cap supplier for that set.
Ahhhhhh those 80's GM diesels.... Now THAT was a blunder!
When I was 15, our Drivers ED car was an 81 Caprice with that wonderful diesel.
Now totally off the subject... but what is your opinion on the Cadillac 4-6-8 option.?
I remember thinking that body style of Caddy was so cool, and thinking that option would have been PRIMO!

HAHA Charles!
Ya.. I wouldn't turn down a working Indextron or a CT-100. I tend to like things that in hind site, weren't the manufactures best choice to put on the market.
The CT-100 can be forgiven because hey... it WAS RCA's 1st attempt
The Indextron.... well, if Sony would have had a decent cap supplier for that set.
Ahhhhhh those 80's GM diesels.... Now THAT was a blunder!
When I was 15, our Drivers ED car was an 81 Caprice with that wonderful diesel.
Now totally off the subject... but what is your opinion on the Cadillac 4-6-8 option.?
I remember thinking that body style of Caddy was so cool, and thinking that option would have been PRIMO!

Funny you should mention that, as I do want one... Just haven't found one in the right cosmetic shape a the right price. But I do have an '84 Buick 4.3 FWD Diesel. That was the "second-worst engine" per Car & Driver's survey a few years ago.

Charles

A big problem with Indextrons was that the brightness had to be set so the darkest parts of the picture still had to emit some light so the index detecting circuits would still know what color the beam was hitting when it went into a not-black part of the picture after exiting a dark area. So it would look washed out. It might not be noticeable in a brightly lit room, or at the game on a sunny day, where ambient light would mask the poor dark areas.

Why is set special??

Why is set special??

What makes this set so interesting to collectors is that it is * the one and only stand alone working Index beam television to make it to market anywhere in the world. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. (* Only beam index set sold to the public) Hitachi 1 1/2 inch index color viewfinder and Sony Vidimagic excluded.

The Apple tube, being the original beam index tube was developed by Philco and others in the early 50's. It was resurrected in the 70's and all attempts to bring to market for more then 30 years failed until the Sony Vidimagic and the Sony KVX 370 came to market in 1988-89. (The Vidimagic was a one tube projector using a 5.25 inch Indextron CRT.)

A big problem with Indextrons was that the brightness had to be set so the darkest parts of the picture still had to emit some light so the index detecting circuits would still know what color the beam was hitting when it went into a not-black part of the picture after exiting a dark area. So it would look washed out. It might not be noticeable in a brightly lit room, or at the game on a sunny day, where ambient light would mask the poor dark areas.

Actually the black levels on the Sony KVX 370 Indextron aren't to bad. Here is a screen shot from last weeks telecast of the Christmas tree lighting at 30 Rock taken on the fly from my Sony KVX 370. Photo is untouched, just re-sized.

https://secure.flickr.com/photos/20042768@N05/6455157529/in/photostream/lightbox/

Beins' I'm cranky & have a Surly, Mulish disposition, I'll opine that an Indextron was an EXPENSIVE answer to a question nobody ever really asked...

Beins' I'm cranky & have a Surly, Mulish disposition, I'll opine that an Indextron was an EXPENSIVE answer to a question nobody ever really asked...


That's what they said about the Wright brothers flying machine. :-)

Why did Dr. Lawrence invent the Apple tube?
Why did General Electric introduce the the inline Portacolor?
Why did Sony introduce the Trinitron?
Why did Panasonic make the tiny 1 1/2 inch CRT television?
Why flat screens?
Why OLED? ... and on and on.

Why?, to show it could be done, to improve the technology.

I believe Sony wanted to show that beam indexing television could be done, especially after their failure with the Chromatron in Japan. It is known that in the late 80's and early 90's, Sony had flat large screen indextrons under development. As was said earlier in this forum, the technology had distinct benefits and was abandoned by the advent of large plasma and LCD televisions in the 90's.

I appreciate the hard work that engineers do to push the envelope and advance Science and technology. I can only think what might have been, if Sony were left to their devices to advance the development of the Indextron. The KVX 370 was a first product, it could have been improved and tweaked if not abandoned and as Andy said, once the bad caps are replaced, it works well. Am I Sony fan? You bet and not ashamed of it. That's my two cents. :-)

I'd like to see the innards or a schematic of the indextron, I'm always interested in odd stuff. Didn't Sharp have a 4-color set back around the 1980's ?

As a former GM dealer tech, those Olds diesels bring back memorys! Actually the diesels were not that bad *IF* people would have MAINTAINED them! I also had a 1985 FWD Ciera 4.3 diesel, a trade in that I got in 1988 (really cheap!) with a loud knock. Turns out it had a leaky injector that caused the knock! I remember it would go a loooong way on a tank of fuel.

I'd like to see the innards or a schematic of the indextron, I'm always interested in odd stuff. Didn't Sharp have a 4-color set back around the 1980's ?

As a former GM dealer tech, those Olds diesels bring back memorys! Actually the diesels were not that bad *IF* people would have MAINTAINED them! I also had a 1985 FWD Ciera 4.3 diesel, a trade in that I got in 1988 (really cheap!) with a loud knock. Turns out it had a leaky injector that caused the knock! I remember it would go a loooong way on a tank of fuel.

Hi Terry,

There are some photos of the insides in this forum and I can send you a copy of the complete service manual of the KVX 370.

...

As a former GM dealer tech, those Olds diesels bring back memorys! Actually the diesels were not that bad *IF* people would have MAINTAINED them! I also had a 1985 FWD Ciera 4.3 diesel, a trade in that I got in 1988 (really cheap!) with a loud knock. Turns out it had a leaky injector that caused the knock! I remember it would go a loooong way on a tank of fuel.

Apologies for thread hijack continuum, but I filled my Buick 4.3 Diesel in about January, and it's still pegged at full, despite driving it to two car shows (about 150 miles). The Cadillac probably has algae by now, since I last filled that one in '08.

Charles

About the Cadillac V4-V6-V12. I owned and operated an automotive repair garage from 1987-2002. During my first several years in business, I had one customer with that electronically controlled engine option.
While the car had a lot of the malaise era GM problems, the V4-V6-V8 feature always worked seamlessly on the one my customer had. It had a small dash display to show in which of the three possible modes it was operating. The car's owner died before the car did.

Wasn't the indextron used in a number of car televisions sold in Japan?

On the diesel issue, even with the VW diesels, if the repair "technicians" weren't fully capable of troubleshooting them, the results were disasterous. Something I experienced first hand when the service manager tells me matter of factly "some cars we can't fix". I'm more than sure that it was the last time he said that when the sales manager had to lemon law the car back from me.

History is littered with products that gained a bad name based on the fact that the service people weren't familiar with their differing technology enough to properly maintain them.

Wasn't the indextron used in a number of car televisions sold in Japan?

On the diesel issue, even with the VW diesels, if the repair "technicians" weren't fully capable of troubleshooting them, the results were disasterous. Something I experienced first hand when the service manager tells me matter of factly "some cars we can't fix". I'm more than sure that it was the last time he said that when the sales manager had to lemon law the car back from me.

History is littered with products that gained a bad name based on the fact that the service people weren't familiar with their differing technology enough to properly maintain them.

Not sure about Japan car Indextron's, but Sony sold auto Indextron monitors, XAV-U50 and XAV-U51 with 5.25 inch screens.

Discounted to $780.

Sharp has a 4 color set right now:

http://www.sharpusa.com/ForHome/HomeEntertainment/LCDTVs/Technology.aspx

Panasonic had something called Quintrix, the logo showed four colors but it was a conventional tri color tube.