I'm curious to know what differences exist between the Sony KV 5000 and Sony KV 5100 color Trinitrons and the years of introduction. I believe the KV 5100 was introduced 1976/77. I also see slight cosmetic differences.

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Thanks Andy, about the power supply information. Wondering why Sony introduced a near identical set 3 or 4 years later with a new model number? Unusual for Sony. Must have been a major internal improvement? I have a 5100 also and just found out about the KV 5000.

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I have a KV-5100, and I have the service manual for the 5000, and I did do some comparison when I worked on the 5100 a few years ago. There are some minor internal differences (mainly the power supply).

Basically that's the only difference. The 5000 had some quirks and expensive SCRs prone to failure in the power supply, and the 5000 was a little more reliable and stable (not that the 5000 was bad... It also is an excellent set). Also, the 5100 has a constant filament voltage lower than running voltage, so the picture takes a second to come on. The 5000 has nearly a constant working filament voltage, so the picture is instant-on. The CRT and most of the rest of the TV is identical, including the cabinet parts (other than the paint color and the side trim being black leatherette on the 5000 vs. bronzed aluminum on the 5100).

Charles

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Thanks for the information, much appreciated. Anyone have solid data on the introduction dates of these two sets, such as a print date on the service manuals or owners manual?

My 5100 has the "Econoquick" label under the UHF selector if that helps.

Are you sure about that? I'm almost sure my 5100 doesn't have instant one. I thought the quick warm up was due to the unusual directly heated cathodes in the CRT.
I just did a "cold start" on my 5000 and 5200 (they had been unplugged for months) and both came up to full brightness in about 5-8 seconds. I suspect that these are both using directly heated cathodes (180mW or 1/4W)
jr

OTOH, my KV 9000 just took about 20 seconds from a similar cold start, for sure an indirectly heated cathode. If left plugged in the 9000 picture will come on in about 5-8 seconds, indicating that "standby" power is applied to the CRT heater.
The 5000 and 5200 still take 5-8 seconds if left plugged in, so no indication of "standby" CRT power (or perhaps that circuit is not functioning in my 5000 series sets).

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I sscraped one of these a couple of years back...now I'm starting to regret it.
I did save the CRT, and many other parts if anyone wants them.

As far as I know the 5" CRT was the only one with directly heated cathodes.

KV4000 series perhaps?
Also, I just did a "cold start" test on my cute 3.5" Sharp 3LS36 (W) and it came up in about 5 seconds, so it must have a directly heated as well.
jr

Econoquick means there is no instant on circuit. Sony claimed to have improved the warm up time for their CRTs which no longer needed an energy wasting instant on supply, but I've never compared the cold start time. As far as I know the 5" CRT was the only one with directly heated cathodes.


This is good to know. I always equated "Econoquick" as the instant on feature VK members talked about in other threads of this forum. ie: short life etc.

KV-5XXXs of ALL iterations are STILL highly sought after, & tend to go high, even after what, 30-35 years ? There IS something magic about "Sony Trinitron", after all...

The KV-5000 and 5100 are very neat little TVs. I've seen them occasionally up for auction.

On the topic of Econoquick...

I noticed that there are actually two different versions of the KV-9200 (9"). The original version had a switch for "Quick start" which was just pulling out the Picture knob. The second version was labeled Econoquick and seems to lack the switch to enable/disable it. The TVs seem otherwise identical.

Mine is the first version with the quick start switch. I tried turning it on, then turning on the set once, and it didn't seem to effect the start up time. My guess is that the set has to remain plugged in for some time, with the quick start enabled, in order to start up quicker, but I've never tried it for fear of shortening the life.

For reference, from a cold start my KV-9200 takes about 15 seconds after powering on until the CRT lights up, and then another 30 seconds or so until the CRT comes up to full brightness and stabilizes. As far as I can tell my TV is in good working condition and the CRT is strong as new so I always figured the start up time was normal.

I don't mean to hijack the thread or anything, but it seemed somewhat related and might be of interest.

Econoquick means there is no instant on circuit. Sony claimed to have improved the warm up time for their CRTs which no longer needed an energy wasting instant on supply, but I've never compared the cold start time.
I think all of the Sony sets I have owned, and installed/worked on in airports, have been at full brightness within 10 seconds or so, back to my 1979 KV-1922. Once the CRTs get weak, though, it takes much longer for what brightness you do get...

KV-5XXXs of ALL iterations are STILL highly sought after, & tend to go high, even after what, 30-35 years ? There IS something magic about "Sony Trinitron", after all...

I couldn't agree more. :-)

Are you sure about that? I'm almost sure my 5100 doesn't have instant one. I thought the quick warm up was due to the unusual directly heated cathodes in the CRT.

I stand corrected... The KV-5000 and 5100 both have non-instant filament supplies which come from the FBT, and being that the both use the same CRT (SD-59), I don't know why only the 5100 has the "econoquick" badge. I got confused with the KV-9000, which does have instant on and a separate filament supply transformer (I double-checked before stating this time, LOL).

Thanks for pointing that out, and sorry for making an assumption based on a bad memory of models :nono: ...

Charles

I don't know why only the 5100 has the "econoquick" badge.
I have seen 5000s both ways, I presently have a 5000 with the "econoquick" logo below the UHF ch selector knob. My earlier 5000 (which was stolen) did not have the logo. The manual that I still have from my first 5000 does not show the logo.
S0ny sometimes takes a while to "invent" these terms... The first "Walkman" was just called a "TPS-L2"
jr

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I have seen 5000s both ways, I presently have a 5000 with the "econoquick" logo below the UHF ch selector knob. My earlier 5000 (which was stolen) did not have the logo. The manual that I still have from my first 5000 does not show the logo.
S0ny sometimes takes a while to "invent" these terms... The first "Walkman" was just called a "TPS-L2"
jr

If you you still have your KV 5000 manual, is there a print date shown any where? I'm trying to establish a valid introduction date for both the 5000 and 5100.

If you you still have your KV 5000 manual, is there a print date shown any where? I'm trying to establish a valid introduction date for both the 5000 and 5100.

Sorry, None given, that is one of the first things that I checked for after I dug it out. There is a part number 4-495-409-21 (1) perhaps a S0ny expert can figure it out from that?
jr

Sams Photofact for the 5000 is 1457-3 (early 1975) and for the 5100 is 1652-2 (mid 1977), if that helps.

Sony sometimes takes a while to "invent" these terms... The first "Walkman" was just called a "TPS-L2"
jr
There are versions of the TPS-L2 with and without the name "Walkman" on them. I remember selling every one of those we could get our hands on, in a little store in Evanston, Illinois in 1980-81.

i have a kv-9000 that i fired up after it sat 7 years.first firing took about 45 seconds to fully brighten up.about 20 from cold and instant if it has been plugged in.i guess this one dodged the slow death of instant on!it still look great on the lone analog station we have here.
i have several kv-5xxx sets here too.the 5200 is ready in about 6 seconds.however these directly heated tubes have an odd failure mode that i have seen several times.k-k leakage.i replaced the crt in the 5200 for that reason.

I have seen 5000s both ways, I presently have a 5000 with the "econoquick" logo below the UHF ch selector knob. My earlier 5000 (which was stolen) did not have the logo. The manual that I still have from my first 5000 does not show the logo.


It probably had a new face bezel put on due to scratches. Many of them did, and in fact, the shop I worked for in the 80s, kept 2 or 3 in stock. There was no option to order the early one without the Econoquick badge, so they all had it when replaced.

Charles

If you you still have your KV 5000 manual, is there a print date shown any where? I'm trying to establish a valid introduction date for both the 5000 and 5100.

I have both of the original Sony manuals, and the original 1st ed's are dated:

KV-5000 = 1973

Supplements and corrections as late as 1994.

KV-5100 = 1976

Supplements and corrections as late as 2005.

By memory, the last KV-5100 I saw new in a store, was at a Sony authorized retailer in West Los Angeles in 1981. It could have been on the shelf for a couple years, much like a drug store in Northridge, CA which had a few Panasonic CT-101s in stock til 1994 (was a 1982 set). Small and expensive TVs seemed to sit awhile.

Charles

kx250rider... good thought about the replacement bezel... they do seem to scratch easily!

Speaking of 5" 'trons, has anybody seen one of these before?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-Trinitron-KV-6AD3-Portable-5-Color-TV-NTSC-/190545052644?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c5d5ec3e4
not affiliated,
jr

IIRC, the 5" Trinitrons had the same kind of "Cachet" that their older B/W brothers had back in the early '60s...Both were kinda "jewel-like", performed VERY well, & were fairly expensive when new.

I have both of the original Sony manuals, and the original 1st ed's are dated:

KV-5000 = 1973

Supplements and corrections as late as 1994.

KV-5100 = 1976

Supplements and corrections as late as 2005.

By memory, the last KV-5100 I saw new in a store, was at a Sony authorized retailer in West Los Angeles in 1981. It could have been on the shelf for a couple years, much like a drug store in Northridge, CA which had a few Panasonic CT-101s in stock til 1994 (was a 1982 set). Small and expensive TVs seemed to sit awhile.

Charles

Good stuff. I saw your previous thread where you dated the 5 inch Sony's. Wanted to be sure on the dates.

kx250rider... good thought about the replacement bezel... they do seem to scratch easily!

Speaking of 5" 'trons, has anybody seen one of these before?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-Trinitron-KV-6AD3-Portable-5-Color-TV-NTSC-/190545052644?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c5d5ec3e4
not affiliated,
jr

No! Interesting. Looks to be a Japanese market model with 100 volt power supply. I believe Japan is NTSC, but previous experience with Japanese market sets: won't accept a digital converter box signal. I could be wrong on this. It still has video/audio inputs, but not sure about that power supply working properly.

The tinted screen cover can be removed easily. You can use a jeweler polish paste to remove most scratches. Several applications will remove all but deep scratches. I use a product called "HAPPICH" product of Germany.

I believe Japan is NTSC, but previous experience with Japanese market sets: won't accept a digital converter box signal.
Yes, Japan uses (used?) NTSC, but they do not have the low-VHF channels as we do. They have/had channels 1-3 in the frequency range of our FM radio band (88-108 MHz), while their FM band is 76-88 MHz.

If you do need to get an RF signal into a Japanese set, you could try modifying the output circuit of the ATSC tuner/converter so it works in that higher range. Another option is to use an RF modulator in the high-VHF range. If I remember right, the Japanese channel numbers in that range are one number off from ours (their channel 12 is our channel 13, or the other way).

It appears that the KV-8000 may have the directly heated cathode as well (screen shot from recent eBay listing attached):
not affiliated,
jr

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No, the 5" was the only one that I know of (not sure about the KV-4000). Econoquick just means that it doesn't have instant on, otherwise it's a meaningless marketing word. All Sony's from the mid-late 70's were "Econoquick".
Interesting ! I guess that I should have bid on the KV-8000, to see how S0ny powered the CRT heater. I assumed that since the 8000 could be battery powered like the 5000 and 4000 series sets, that it was likely to have the lower power directly heated cathode, but I have never seen an 8000 nor the schematic for one.
jr

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iirc they are common 6.3v heaters.had to put a crt in one a while back.was in a fancy inspection camera system in a machine shop.the owner ststed that it had been there over 30 years and was old when he bought the place.
it rejuvenated well and lasted 2 more years.i tore down a beaten but low hours set to get a tube.

I just received a KV 4000 today (eBay purchase) and did the "cold start" test... the picture came up in about 4 seconds, so I am convinced that the CRT in the '4000 uses a directly heated cathode.
Wonder if Sony used different heater/cathode structures in some of these smaller tubes depending on intended use (battery powered portable vs AC powered monitor)?
jr

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Hi Guys, There is one other very significant difference between the two. The 5000
has an adjustable pin cushion circuit which due to the bean counters at Sony, was left out in the 5100 with simply a factory preset value in it's place. The reason I know this was that my 5100 which I purchased new in 1980 had a terrible pin cushioning problem and I battled with Sony to get it rectified. There was no simple "return the set and get another". These sets were newly discontinued at the time and finding the one that I have was a daunting task. Remember there was no internet and Ebay where you could simply do a search. I searched the old fashined way by visiting as many tv and appliance stores as I could and also letting my fingers do the walking through the Yellow pages. I finally found one but it had a shattered picture tube, so the seach continued until I found one place in New York City that had their last one. I ran down and grabbed it. So anyway, at first Sony said there was nothing they could do because there was no adjustment for pin cushioning. I made it clear that I found that answer unnaceptable and so after much deliberation and arguing, Sony in Long Island City, New York performed surgery on my set, installed a pin cushion circuit and adjusted it to get my picture straightened out. The other problem I had was that the battery back BP-51 that was supposed to last for about 3 hours only lasted about half that time at best. After a bit of pursuasion they also took care of that for me as well.

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Thanks for the info on the pin cushion circuit.

Hey guys! Thanks for the replies. Firstly, I'd like to say that one of the reasons I got that kind of custom response from a company that size was that I was persistent and kept calling and calling and relentlessly calling Sony in order to rectify this problem and this was commenced within a few weeks of purchase so they could not blow me off saying it was past warranty.They finally directed me to the Sony Corporation in Long Island City NY to finally get to stop calling them on an almost daily basis. When I arrived at that location, I caught a few knowing eye rolls, but they accepted the set for repair/modification. They told me it would take two to three weeks. At three weeks I started calling them and got; "It is almost ready, blah, blah, blah". I was again relentless. I think they were hoping I might go away but I did not. Finally, a month and a half after I left it, they told me I could come pick it up. Note that they did not call me as they said they would; I guess they figured they should not bother being that I was calling so often myself. Anyway, when I arrived, they brought my KV5100 up to the service desk with repair tag on it and looking to uneventfully return it. They plugged it in and showed me with a test pattern that the pin cushioning problem was rectified which I acknowledged. They also reassured me that the battery charger was also repaired and new cells installed into the BP51 battery pack. I nodded and paused, and took a deep breath and then unloaded on them.... As much as I would have liked to thank them for fixing the pin cushioning problem and the battery life problem,and also for allowing me to check out the battery life and get back to them (which I know if unsatisfactory would be another protracted goose chase ) I was steaming inside at the condition of the cabinet as returned to me.
I gave them a brand new set to repair. I was returned a repaired set with a cabinet that looked like it went through the war!!! Scrapes, scuffs, bare areas, chips. I was like WTetc?!!! and more foul language followed while other customers were around watching the spectacle. I was like "What?!!! Were you guys throwing this set around like a football?!!" Yes I was a young a-hole in their eyes then, and I would probably now as an older guy behave much more respectably, but that fact is that after my tirade, another clerk ( the only guy that was kind to me in the first place ) came out with a brand new KV5100 cabinet in a cellophane bag and handed it to me. I calmed down and then thanked him very much.
He then asked me if I would like it installed. I declined and figured, I would myself later on at some point. Heck at this point I might as well accumulate more wear and tear an then at some time in the future, have the option of refurbishment. And that was that. So the reason I got so far was because I was correct in my grievances, but also angry and unpleasant. The cavalier treatment of a devout Sony fan who travelled many miles and spent many hours in order to chase down and finally acquire one of these great little DISCONTINUED and hard to find marvels of a color television, REALLY pissed me off!! Okay, my anguish paid off as it all worked out. Also from then on I got about 3.5 hours a charge through many cycles for a few years out of the cells which was great. BTW, while I have you guys there is another unmentioned difference between the KV5000 and KV5100. Their respective battery packs BP50 and BP51 are incompatible in that the mounts are different on the sets. I know because I have both. You cannot take a battery pack from a 5100 and install it on a 5000 and vice versa. They simply won't go on. As for whether one might power the other? I figured that if one won't mount on the other, it might make sense not to push my luck to find out that it might be so as an electrical safeguard due to an unexpected incompatibility. More great news! I just won an Ebay auction for a mint condition Sony KV5100 with battery pack containing brand new cells. It arrived today, looks almost like the day it left the factory, and performs great even on the included BP51!! Did I really need yet another? No, but I could not resist and I won the package for $76.00!! Now my trusty set that I have agonized over to make correct becomes my back up set! Cool! Now I have two battery packs and can uses one for back up for those infrequent Mets and Yankees double headers!