I'm finally getting around to the bug eaten set I picked up in Cincinnati over a year ago (http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=246736).

It's a Motorola 12K2 with a TS-53 chassis and 12LP4 CRT.

Some trim is missing and wood bores have been at it, but otherwise the cabinet and chassis are intact.

The CRT is a little weak, but I think it will produce a watchable image.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2587/4197022810_db5851dc62.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4062/4683352378_ab07867f8f.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1297/4682721069_971c87ec68.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5304/5731824109_3f88f33ef7.jpg

I have some nice mahogany veneer I can use to reproduce some of that trim.
The veneer is a bit beat up, but I think I can salvage it.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1421/4728572121_d930061367.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5110/5731824635_772a9036ba.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2299/5731824375_f130091e4a.jpg

We had that model at the TV shop where I worked until the early 80s. It worked. I would fire it up every now and then and it would get the looks by the passers by. I almost screamed like a little girl when I saw it missing when I stoped by in mid 80s. The owner sold it to the Burt Reynolds theater as a prop! I had an RCA 1948 in a metal cabinet but this was just an awesome looking piece in its wood cabinet.

Something seems missing, like the HV section. And that power transformer looks awful small!

Nothing missing. That's only a filament transformer; there are seleniums underneath in a voltage doubler arrangement. The Flyback and 1B3 are also mounted underneath. Motorola made many variations of this chassis.

Something seems missing, like the HV section. And that power transformer looks awful small!

That's what I thought before I saw the service info. The flyback and HV rectifier are hiding under the chassis.

The power transformer is just for some of the tube filaments. There's another transformer below for a few more tubes including the CRT.
The B+ comes from rectifying and doubling the AC line. So, it's a hybrid hot chassis, transformer set!

(Doh! David beat me to it :))

Grrr - broken capacitor wafer mount.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5103/5731825755_2e76670472.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3636/5732372988_be2facbaba.jpg

The yoke is a replacement. I tested it and the flyback using an Eico 944. Both passed although the flyback gave a high pitched squeal.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2098/5732372036_08fac400c6_b.jpg

DO IT RIGHT! I've seen this on a couple other late 40s Motorola chassis, but not on earlier ones.
Maybe they were making too many mistakes on the line ?
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5303/5732373482_b2d45c0308_b.jpg

Here's the only odd thing I've found so far. It's three 1K resistors in series connected between the focus rheostat wiper and ground.

I don't see it on the schematic or other photos I've seen of this chassis :scratch2:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5201/5732760428_3f9a618afe_z.jpg

Well Bob, glad to see that you are off to another adventure! The progress should be fun to watch and I look forward to it.

DO IT RIGHT! I've seen this a couple other late 40s Motorola chassis....
Maybe they were making too many mistakes on the line ?
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5303/5732373482_b2d45c0308_b.jpg

:D Rather lame management if they thought that placing such stickers on the chassis would make the difference. :scratch2:

IBM had "Think" signs in their offices; a friend of mine has one from the 1930's that he used to keep in his office (at IBM). I wonder how well those worked?

well enough that their laptop lines were "think"pads

Hi Guys ,

Ill bet your absolutly right , , the "Do It Right" stickers were probablly the 1940s version of "The Team Concept" and other vapid management slogans that are supposed to get us worker bees in line . Didnt work then , dont work now , and a typical example of corporate waste . If these companies want good , happy workers who take pride in their work there is only one sure way to accheive that ...... Pay them a fair wage and make them feel like they ARE actually a valued asset to the organization . Everything else is just smoke .


Anyway , Im watching your Motorola restoration thread with intrest , , , , I may just have to go out and find some nice old TV to restore here myself ( Ive already done a 1950s Olympic , I just dont know how to post photos here yet) .

Oh yea , also , , , Ive reported "rootasoo" s post (the one that Is , or was , above mine) as spam :nono:

that looks a lot like the motorola I have, have fun with that cluster of caps at about 8:00 for do it right, must be 10 tied to one term strip lug.

Looks like it should be a nice "fix-up" and we will be watching.

O.T. We should be the brains behind these lame campaigns that they sell to corporations. The Bell System went through that stuff in the 80s and by 5 years later, all of the stuff that they crammed down our throats was out the door and laughed at (as we did behind their backs ;)). Large corporations seem to think that they can solve any problem with another pile of Bovine Scat slung at the workers. They always seem to think that they are superior and smarter than their worker bees. (rant off)

Looks like it should be a nice "fix-up" and we will be watching.

O.T. We should be the brains behind these lame campaigns that they sell to corporations. The Bell System went through that stuff in the 80s and by 5 years later, all of the stuff that they crammed down our throats was out the door and laughed at (as we did behind their backs ;)). Large corporations seem to think that they can solve any problem with another pile of Bovine Scat slung at the workers. They always seem to think that they are superior and smarter than their worker bees. (rant off)

Bell System huh? I worked for them too.
Remember the campaign PPP - Pride in Personal Performance?

We jokingly had other words for PPP :-)

Carl

that looks a lot like the motorola I have, have fun with that cluster of caps at about 8:00 for do it right, must be 10 tied to one term strip lug.

I started on that cluster last night. Fun is right :drool: I've found evidence of a few crude repairs including some 6AG5s in 6AU6 sockets.

I wonder if the "Do it right" stickers were placed on the chassis after it failed a test and was sent back for rework?

One might imagine that all those numbers scrawled in crayon might be wiring steps which were found to be incorrect upon inspection.

It would be fascinating to learn more about how the assembly line really worked. At one time, there must have been hundreds of thousands of people in the U.S. working in point-to-point wiring of radios and TVs. I've seen only a few things here and there documenting how these lines really ran and exactly what a typical worker's job was like.

that set did have a odd PS, there was a filament trans for everything but the damper, then an odd ball looking trans for the damper and of course the doubler for B+, not isolated. FYI, I watch that set a lot and it still has the Se stacks in there (I did NOT replace them with diodes, so far so good). I know I will prob get some comments about the forthcoming failure and stink of them when that happens. I seem to recall having some intermittant audio, think that was a defective 6AL5 in the FM ratio detector (may have been a tube socket on that, just cant recall right now).

on company signs, we had a lot of "safety first" of course if you saw the walls around the fork lift you would know why, I think there was a hole punchedin by the forklift right thru the poster, it was just asking for it....

HR loved signs, I think a lot were mandated by the feds...

I found another "Do It Right" sticker under the channel selector in my 9T1.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3268/5738081706_db46ed4ef7.jpg


that set did have a odd PS, there was a filament trans for everything but the damper, then an odd ball looking trans for the damper and of course the doubler for B+, not isolated. FYI, I watch that set a lot and it still has the Se stacks in there (I did NOT replace them with diodes, so far so good). I know I will prob get some comments about the forthcoming failure and stink of them when that happens. I seem to recall having some intermittant audio, think that was a defective 6AL5 in the FM ratio detector (may have been a tube socket on that, just cant recall right now).

There's also an autoformer tap for the 25L6 and a separate secondary for the CRT and one of the 6AU6s.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5023/5737686941_4fc06f8f03.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/5737686941/)

Speaking of the 6AL5 tube - I broke a leg off it's socket :tears: For now, I just soldered it back right to the tube pin. i guess I'll have to drill out the rivets and replace the socket.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3462/5738239944_f8716af20c.jpg

I've started working on the cabinet. First, I removed the screen bezel and speaker.
The green foam was stubborn in a few spots, but I got it off eventually with the help or a razor blade.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2731/5738840714_2e8eda40ff_z.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5027/5738841020_c31ec00f70_z.jpg

The feet had seen better days so I glued and clamped them.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2087/5738840482_02436400ca_z.jpg

Now how to deal with those bug holes ?
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3027/5738841454_ed139da94f_z.jpg

I did some experimenting with products available locally and settled on this Elmers wood filler. This cabinet is brown mahogany and the Elmers mahogany was a bit too red. I found that a blend of 2 parts mahogany, 1 part walnut looked OK once stained.

I did a little stripping test before filling in the holes and discovered the stipper sludge not only gets in the holes but discolors them too. So I'm filling them in first.

After filling in the holes, I've been scrapping off the excess with a single edge razor blade. A lot of the finish is coming off in the process so I think I won't need much stripper after all.

After staining and grain filling, I might also use some Mohawk brown Mahogany toner I have on hand. Toner lacquer works pretty well for hiding repairs.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2251/5738293049_fa3475dfa6_z.jpg

Mahogany gel stain test with several blends of wood filler.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5023/5742120938_6a54c79e4a_z.jpg

It's about as much fun as it looks :drool:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3406/5742120718_e5f250d37f_z.jpg

Looks like you've got most of that fancy cabinet trim work but even if not you could trace the pattern onto some veneer of the same type and cut it out with an exacto knife.

Reminds me of the balsa wood airplanes I use to make as a kid. I had to cut out each piece from a flat sheet of balsa wood, took weeks to make one.

The numbers written in crayon on the chassis bottom look like inspectors numbers. Each chassis inspected by an inspector as it passed through a section of the line. Looks like it went through at least six stages of inspections. The initials are possibly from the the guy or girl that signed off on the whole chassis. Just a guess.

As for the metal trim, it's gone into the electrolysis vat to remove the rust.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5029/5737686493_a5461188a1_z.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3523/5738239480_31f015fb62_z.jpg

Once that's done, I'm going to try these products.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3551/5741644663_36484d8bc5_z.jpg

Looks like you've got most of that fancy cabinet trim work but even if not you could trace the pattern onto some vener of the same type and cut it out with an exacto knife.

Reminds me of the balsa wood airplanes I use to make as a kid. I had to cut out each piece from a flat sheet of balsa wood, took weeks to make one.

LOL - I made models like that too.
I'm missing about 1/3 of the trim. I have some veneer left over from another project and I'll cut it out just like you described.

Interesting looking tub of goop you got there. What's that all about?

Re: the three 1K resistors in series. Don't know if it's true in this case, but sometimes TV mfrs. used several resistors in series that added up to the value required where there was a high potential. Several resistors gave a long leakage path compared to one resistor that could arc over.

Re: the three 1K resistors in series. Don't know if it's true in this case, but sometimes TV mfrs. used several resistors in series that added up to the value required where there was a high potential. Several resistors gave a long leakage path compared to one resistor that could arc over.

better heat disapation too.

Gota know what's in that tub of goop??

Re: the three 1K resistors in series. Don't know if it's true in this case, but sometimes TV mfrs. used several resistors in series that added up to the value required where there was a high potential. Several resistors gave a long leakage path compared to one resistor that could arc over.
Aha. I was wondering why my DuMont RA-113 uses a chain of three 470K resistors in the HV tripler circuit.

Phil Nelson

P.S. To learn about the goop, search for "electrolysis" in this forum.

http://antiqueradio.org/art/DuMontRA-113HVResistorChainParts.jpg

...

Gota know what's in that tub of goop??

I posted some details of the process in this thread.

http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=250143&page=4

Pretty amazing results. I'm sure I'll try that in the near future. Thanks

Re: the three 1K resistors in series. Don't know if it's true in this case, but sometimes TV mfrs. used several resistors in series that added up to the value required where there was a high potential. Several resistors gave a long leakage path compared to one resistor that could arc over.

I've seen that in the Motorola electrostatic sets for the HV divider. It seems to be a crude repair in this case. There should be a 3.3K resistor in the focus circuit elsewhere. That had been replaced with a 3K resistor and these 3 1Kadded as well for a total of four resistors. I just removed them all and put in a single 3.3 K.

I found scraping to be an effective way to remove most of the finish. Certainly less messy than the areas where I resorted to citrus stripper.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3486/5753607177_05c14722e9.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2244/5744794386_dfd4eee1bc.jpg

The top had a few chips in the veneer. I cleaned up the edges and carefully cut patches from some salvaged veneer. After gluing them in, a little trimming and sanding made them almost disappear.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3053/5753572083_2af2af6870.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5308/5754117356_9fd58e1f3b.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3373/5754152628_6962bf75fb.jpg

BTW I took the first two pics with natural daylight and the last at night with CFL lighting and a flash. It makes quite a difference !

I like the Chinese frieze pattern running aroung the top of the TV cabinet. Looks very similar to an Edison C-250 phonograph. The Edison is mahogany too.

Neat. The GE 802 has it as well, but just in the front.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4015/4483672192_0887aa76ef_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/4483672192/)

I like the Chinese frieze pattern ...

I thought that that was Greek or Egyptian style, but I'm not up on my interior decorating... :D

Here's the original ad in a brochure I picked up recently. Click to see the full sized scan.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5051/5454226515_993bb2b9f7.jpg (http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5051/5454226515_2fce27da58_o.jpg)

Looking Good I think you will get a nice finish on that set. Use a couple of spray cans of semi gloss poly for the finish and take your time.
You did an amazing job on the veneer replacement. It took me a minute or two of looking at the pics to even begin to see even the slightest sign
of the repair. How did you get the cut line to match the new piece and how did you get the cut line to disappear after you put in the new piece?

Thanks. I'll be using Deft gloss lacquer and rubbing itout with pumice and rottenstone. It has nitro-cellulose in it and produces a really nice finish. It's also what they used originally.

I was lucky in that I had some vintage mahogany veneer scraps salvaged during another project. The color and grain was a very good match. I matched the angles by holding a strip of the patch veneer next to the missing part and lined up a utility knife to score a line. When I cut out the patch, I also under cut it so the top surface overhung. That allowed me to get a very tight seam against the old veneer. I also rubbed a little sawdust into the glue to fill in any voids.

I'm in the home stretch (I hope). All that's left before a power up attempt are the two multi-section electrolytics.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2158/5766972854_88f7baa899_z.jpg

I colored the wires with markers to aid in reconnecting them. I also found one that had broken loose long ago. Maybe that led to the sets retirement :scratch2:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2411/5766973604_30ff1fa7a1_z.jpg

One down, one to go. I used Nichicons rated for 105C.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3235/5766973270_7474f34497_z.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2760/5767177858_6f064141bb_z.jpg

I also finished the lower trim.
Here it is before and after rust removal. It's quite deeply pitted in areas.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5027/5738841020_c31ec00f70_z.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2153/5762415319_47a0f22134_z.jpg

Several rounds with first rusty metal primer then filler primer and sanding filled in the voids and should prevent the rust returning.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2304/5762415863_bd7e582857_z.jpg

Finally time for the gold lacquer.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2025/5762425979_79e1f0d215_z.jpg

Here's a preview against the old grille cloth. Looks pretty good I think.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5190/5762426219_0bd57118bc_z.jpg

Reminds me of that TV show "Rust to Riches"

I still say the Smithsonian is missing out on one heck of a restorer/curator.....another awesome job as usual.

Cheers,

Thanks. I'll be using Deft gloss lacquer and rubbing itout with pumice and rottenstone. It has nitro-cellulose in it and is produces a really nice finish. It's also what they used originally.



Will you use spray or brush? On the top trim, can it be removed so you can do the finish work on the cabinet and then reattach it? I know some of it is already off how hard would it be to remove the rest?

One thing I really like about Poly is it is very forgiving. It dries flat even when you don't think it will.

Will you use spray or brush? On the top trim, can it be removed so you can do the finish work on the cabinet and then reattach it? I know some of it is already off how hard would it be to remove the rest?

One thing I really like about Poly is it is very forgiving. It dries flat even when you don't think it will.

I'll be using the spray. Deft brushing lacquer doesn't have the nitro plus I really like the fan spray nozzle they use.

I did remove all the trim and it came off quite easily. I'll reattach it once I'm done striping the cabinet.

The last cap has been rebuilt and remounted so here we go...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2506/5774770490_a356a35c76_z.jpg

First power up using a DBT. I should really be using a higher wattage bulb, but at least nothing went up in smoke and I can tell the AC doubler is working and the filaments are all lighting up :)
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5265/5774770786_ff78498d43_z.jpg

I then hooked up the speaker and a 5AXP4 CRT. There's no HV doorknob cap in this set and the CRT has no aquadag so I wrapped a bit of grounded foil around it.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2403/5774771020_cebc2c2118_z.jpg

I got a hum from the speaker and a little high pitched squeal from the flyback. I turned up the brightness and got a glow :D
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/5774233087_7b14c18407_z.jpg

I hooked up an antenna and did a little more fiddling. Eventually, I was able to pick up channel 6 and get a stable image. The sound quality and volume is excellent.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3401/5774233611_9a013e76c3_z.jpg

Time to fire up the 12LP4.

The 12LP4 is producing a brighter picture than I had expected. I do hear some HV discharge and smell a little ozone though. Seems to be coming somewhere near the HV cap. I hope is just some dust and dirt conducting as I haven't cleaned the CRT yet.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/5774772830_c0366bb52e_z.jpg

How about some real programming ? Vertical is way off.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2504/5774234665_d68681a404_z.jpg

After a little tweaking.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2746/5774773814_894c5171a7_z.jpg

Looking better but I still have a number of issues to work out: HV leak, vertical foldover and very touchy horizontal sync. Even so, not bad for the first power up.

I found purple streamers running between a yoke wire and the flyback under the chassis. I moved the wire away and no more ozone :)

I swapped out the 6SN7 horizontal and 25L6 vertical tubes. The picture became much more stable and all the vertical issues disappeared :thmbsp:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2252/5775358682_38efd4bf76_z.jpg

I scored an original owners manual in very good condition on ebay. Here's the front cover. I'll scan the whole thing to a pdf soon.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3478/5806297050_6eee256a4e_z.jpg

Lookin good, Bob!

All those B&W sets... why not put your expertise to work on a color one soon? Plenty out there that need attention, though you'll soon need a larger apartment (years ago actually).

What a wonderful cover photo on that manual. And notice the dimly lit room with backlighting -- the right way to enjoy vintage TVs.

Phil Nelson

P.S. Nice picture, too.

Lookin good, Bob!

All those B&W sets... why not put your expertise to work on a color one soon? Plenty out there that need attention, though you'll soon need a larger apartment (years ago actually).

I suppose I will someday but I still have about 20 B&W TVs and 10 radios to get to. Most are far more interesting than this set but I figure it's good practice.

What a wonderful cover photo on that manual. And notice the dimly lit room with backlighting -- the right way to enjoy vintage TVs.

Phil Nelson

P.S. Nice picture, too.

I think the cover is fantastic too. I used to think my picture tubes were weak until I realized that you really do need to view them in a dim room.

I'm not putting on a suit though :no:

I started on that cluster last night. Fun is right :drool: I've found evidence of a few crude repairs including some 6AG5s in 6AU6 sockets.

Are you sure those 6AG5's don't belong there? Motorola always had a lot of production changes on their products. Check the original tube layout diagram, if present.

Are you sure those 6AG5's don't belong there? Motorola always had a lot of production changes on their products. Check the original tube layout diagram, if present.

I know what you mean. There are some flavors of the TS-4X chassis that use 3 6AG5s and some use 3 6AU6s in the IF stages.

There's a photo of the original tube layout on the first page of this thread. There should only be one 6AG5 - it's the 3rd IF stage.

One of my Flickr friends scanned this Motorola ad showing the very similar 12K1 model.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5013/5568035202_c95ccfd0da_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/51040908@N07/5568035202/)
Motorola Ad (http://www.flickr.com/photos/51040908@N07/5568035202/) by oldradios (http://www.flickr.com/people/51040908@N07/), on Flickr

I'm finally done stripping and patching up the cabinet. The trim turned out to be harder to reproduce than I had figured.

Initially, I tried to cut pieces out in a continuous zig-zag using a utility knife, veneer saw and dremel tool. I had trouble keeping it uniform and had some breakage.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2435/5833767599_9cb8a39b21.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5118/5836858441_fd3c645343.jpg

So, I changed tactics and cut out small segments instead. All it takes is scoring the veneer with a sharp utility knife and pieces can be snapped off.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3475/5836858159_84f83cf29f.jpg

Then, I carefully glued it down on the cabinet.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3036/5838677224_28b5649af6.jpg

I can finally start putting on the new finish :)
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5022/5838088319_da1407c81a.jpg

You make cabinet work look so easy. I wish it came that easy to me.:ntwrthy:
Wanna make a trip out to Maryland and reveneer a jukebox?:lmao::huge:

I got a Wurlitzer 1400 that the veneer is really bad on and a Seeburg C that the preferred method of restoration is to cover the entire cabinet in white oak veneer as the original finish was printed and very few survive at all because of the rough treatment jukeboxes get.

The task just seem daunting to me compared to the rest of the restoration which comes easily to me since I've worked on electronics every day for over 21 years. Working with wood not so much except making a few projects back in shop at school out of real woodl.Never veneer.:sigh:

You make cabinet work look so easy. I wish it came that easy to me.:ntwrthy:
Wanna make a trip out to Maryland and reveneer a jukebox?:lmao::huge:

I got a Wurlitzer 1400 that the veneer is really bad on and a Seeburg C that the preferred method of restoration is to cover the entire cabinet in white oak veneer as the original finish was printed and very few survive at all because of the rough treatment jukeboxes get.

The task just seem daunting to me compared to the rest of the restoration which comes easily to me since I've worked on electronics every day for over 21 years. Working with wood not so much except making a few projects back in shop at school out of real woodl.Never veneer.:sigh:
Veneering isn't quite as daunting as it seems.
Did my 4068 with oak veneer last summer. My first veneer project, but I had an experienced hand to help.
Managed it myself for the most part, but the second person was helpful for the large sheets.

A good tip is to use yellow carpenter's glue. Spread it with an old credit card or so on both sides, then apply, cover with brown or wax paper, a sheet of something flat (plywood, acrylic, etc.) and lots of weight to keep it down. (I used 3 or 4 40 kg cat litter boxes) Don't be sparing with the glue, you want to wet everything, but it shouldn't be so thick that all you see is the colour of the glue.

When the glue has set, you can use an iron (just heat, no steam) or heat gun to re-activate it and work/press out any bubbles/ridges. Trim, sand, and finish!

If you're stuck for veneer amount and positioning is tight, you can coat the veneer and surface with a smooth coat of glue and let it dry to clear. You can re-coat a few times to get a decent layer. When dry, position as perfectly as you want, and you can then iron it on easily.

Remember to put brown paper between the iron and veneer to keep things from getting stuck to the iron or smudging... some glue _will_ invariably work up through splits or small holes.

You make cabinet work look so easy. I wish it came that easy to me.:ntwrthy:
Wanna make a trip out to Maryland and reveneer a jukebox?:lmao::huge:

I got a Wurlitzer 1400 that the veneer is really bad on and a Seeburg C that the preferred method of restoration is to cover the entire cabinet in white oak veneer as the original finish was printed and very few survive at all because of the rough treatment jukeboxes get.

The task just seem daunting to me compared to the rest of the restoration which comes easily to me since I've worked on electronics every day for over 21 years. Working with wood not so much except making a few projects back in shop at school out of real woodl.Never veneer.:sigh:

Thanks! The electronics are easier for me too, but I've restored the cabinet first on a few projects before. That way at least I have something nice to look at until I find the time for the insides.
Lately though, I'm taking the approach I think Phil Nelson mentioned - get it working first then you're inspired to do the messy cabinet work.

Weather is a big factor for me too. 4-5 months of the year it's too cold for this kind of work.

I must admit the trim was very frustrating until I hit upon the second technique. I wonder how they cut it out originally :scratch2:

Like VintagePC said, it isn't that hard and I use the same technqiues he described. Try practicing with some scraps.

...Remember to put brown paper between the iron and veneer to keep things from getting stuck to the iron or smudging... some glue _will_ invariably work up through splits or small holes.

Now you tell me! I ruined a perfectly good iron the first time I tried it :o


I just put a coat of stain on the top. I used Minwax Mahogany gel stain. The original was brown mahogany and this is a pretty good match.

After it dries overnight, I'll decide if it needs a second coat.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3284/5841125556_108a7acdc4.jpg

I must admit the trim was very frustrating until I hit upon the second technique. I wonder how they cut it out originally :scratch2:


I'd wager it was stamped with a large die cutter... or possibly a thick block cut to shape and then sliced in to thin pieces. This was how a lot of early complicated wood inlays were made too - shape and glue some long pieces together, then use a VERY sharp, thin saw to slice off a few mm.


Now you tell me! I ruined a perfectly good iron the first time I tried it :o

That's nothing. I ruined a perfectly good paper bag :D

We have an old "shop" iron for exactly this sort of thing. The thing still had aluminum stranded wiring. damn stuff turns in to resistance cord when it oxidizes, I spent the better part of a morning wondering why the iron wasn't getting very hot... and the rest of the day trying to open the bloody thing to replace the line cord.

Cabinet looks good. I used Varathane semi-gloss oil on mine. The veneer I had was nigh on 30 years old- so as soon as that stuff hits it, it turns a nice dark natural shade. (then again, I wasn't exactly going for the original finish... which was some god-awful fake plastic-y painted-on woodgrain)

Wow! Wanna repair some of my cabinets? That's pretty nice work! :thmbsp:

Wow! Wanna repair some of my cabinets? That's pretty nice work! :thmbsp:

Thanks! Not anytime soon - I have a bunch of my own to do first ;)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3281/5855458762_73da2190e0_z.jpg

The stain didn't penetrate the solid wood areas as much as the veneer so they're a little lighter. I'm going to use a little brown mahogany toner lacquer to blend it all together.

All I can say is wow! What a transformation! :yes:

Nice work, Bob!

Bob,

Did you replace that broken wafer tube socket? I may have a used one or even a new one if you need it. Let me know.

Thanks - still a long way to go on the cabinet though. Toner lacquer, grain filling, finish coats and rubbing it out.

Bob,

Did you replace that broken wafer tube socket? I may have a used one or even a new one if you need it. Let me know.

Not yet. Thanks for the offer, but I do have some 7-pin sockets on hand.
The challenge is going to be drilling the rivets without damaging the surrounding components.

I stayed up late tonight and finally got the toner lacquer applied to the trim. I masked of the veneer areas and applied three light coats. Then a few extra spurts on areas that were still too light.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3071/5862768890_0e081663c1.jpg

Next up - grain filling.
I haven't used this Constantine filler before but I've heard good stuff about it. I'll practice on some scrap veneer first.
According to the ingredients on the can, it's ground quartz, linseed oil and a few solvents. It takes 24 hours to fully dry.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3167/5863650975_99ecd4ff0d.jpg

Are you still missing one of the small knobs (not that I have one)?
-Winky

Are you still missing one of the small knobs (not that I have one)?
-Winky

Nope, not anymore :) I got a set of tan NOS replacement knobs from peverett. I also found another used red knob. I'll go with whichever set looks better.

I just might be getting some other missing bits from a donor set in a couple weeks. More on that later...

WOW! Another show room beauty in the remaking.

Very nice work!

I really like the veneer patching you did!!

Steve P

Thanks everyone! Just don't look too close or you just might spot a filled in bug hole. The filler I used really soaked up the stain and turned a bit darker than the surrounding wood.
I don't mind though - better that than being too light.

If you ever need to reproduce more of that zig zag veneer (or any complex cutout veneer), here is a good trick:

Cut a veneer strip a little longer than the size you need, without all the zig zags and cutouts. Clamp this strip between two nice stiff hunks of similar wood, then run the whole thing slowly through a table saw with a sharp dado blade, cutting out the pattern with as many passes as you need. Unclamp, and find a perfectly shaped piece of veneer within. You can even do multiple strips at once. You can also do this trick with a router table.

--
Will

If you ever need to reproduce more of that zig zag veneer (or any complex cutout veneer), here is a good trick:

Cut a veneer strip a little longer than the size you need, without all the zig zags and cutouts. Clamp this strip between two nice stiff hunks of similar wood, then run the whole thing slowly through a table saw with a sharp dado blade, cutting out the pattern with as many passes as you need. Unclamp, and find a perfectly shaped piece of veneer within. You can even do multiple strips at once. You can also do this trick with a router table.

--
Will

Thanks for the tip!

I did a little test with the grain filler before moving on to the real cabinet.

A glued a scrap of mahogany veneer to a board and stained it.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5153/5885314708_92efce4770.jpg

I wonder how long this can had been sitting around ? It took about 20 minutes to get a smooth consistency.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5230/5885315028_1e0c893012.jpg

I mixed a little with some mineral spirits as indicated on the can and applied a thick coat. Probably a little too thick.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5223/5884748421_de62d10993.jpg

Once it dried to a haze, I wiped off the excess with burlap going against the grain.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5278/5885315690_35efa05a6a.jpg

Finally, 3 coats of Deft sanding sealer, a little sanding with 400 grit and 3 coats of Deft gloss.

After the lacquer cures, I'll rub out the finish with pumice and rottenstone.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5142/5884749281_f8bf4bf4e2.jpg

Now onto the real thing.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6023/5884809721_e79161d6a7_z.jpg

Wow....And again, "WOW !!" And yeah-I wish I had a TENTH of the pile o' Money my company squandered on the "Kewl Management Theory Du Jour" back in the Eighties & Nineties-Deming Philosophy-Which actually was pretty good, Fishboning, Jo-Hari Windows, TQM, ISO 9000-We done 'em ALL. Our company finally went broke & got sold to Mundet in 206.

Where do you get burlap? The last time I needed some, I went to a fabric store and the price made me choke.

Oh, for the days when my Grandma lived on a farm and always had stacks of clean old sacks ready for re-use -- burlap potato sacks, cotton sacks from buying flour, etc.

Phil Nelson

Now onto the real thing.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6023/5884809721_e79161d6a7_z.jpg

I really enjoy reading your detailed restorations - great work as usual.

I did a double-take when I saw this last image. Looks _exactly_ like the finish job that was on my Fleetwood originally before I stripped and veneered it :D

Of course, this will look _much_ better when you're done!

As for that can of filler... if you have a lot of cans like that, might wanna invest in a mixer attachment for an electric drill... or become good friends with the guy that runs the paint shaker at your local building supply store... :) Save you a helluva lot of sore wrists and arms. (We have unstabilized peanut butter that separates easily... when new, its like clay at the bottom of the jar. I've always wanted to put one in a paint shaker to see if that would work... but I don't think they'd be too happy with me if the plastic gave out... hehe)

Where do you get burlap? The last time I needed some, I went to a fabric store and the price made me choke.


More often than not, a grocery store might have a few old bags they wouldn't mind parting with for free or a small amount... potato bags, as you said. Same thing works well if you need cheap low-grade tarps; lumber stores often have tons of the stuff that their pallets come wrapped in... but it might have some holes here and there

Where do you get burlap? The last time I needed some, I went to a fabric store and the price made me choke.

Oh, for the days when my Grandma lived on a farm and always had stacks of clean old sacks ready for re-use -- burlap potato sacks, cotton sacks from buying flour, etc.

Phil Nelson

I got mine from Constantine's when I ordered the filler and it was a little pricey.
Later, I mentioned this process to a friend and he wished I had mentioned it sooner. Turns out he's friends with a local cafe owner that roasts it's own coffee beans and they come in big burlap sacks. I'll check into that in the future and see if the material really is useable.

I've also seen rice come in what looks like burlap sacks.

I really enjoy reading your detailed restorations - great work as usual.

I did a double-take when I saw this last image. Looks _exactly_ like the finish job that was on my Fleetwood originally before I stripped and veneered it :D

...


Thanks for he compliment and the tips.

That last photo was before I rubbed the excess off. Here it is after I did.
Now I have to wait 24 hours before proceeding. That's the downside to solvent vs. water based filler. The water based dries much faster.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5308/5885325335_3bbbf22cb3_z.jpg

Dah-Yum !!!

After letting the filler set for 24 hours, I sprayed on 3 coats of Deft sanding sealer. Once that dried, I lightly sanded with 400 grit.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5076/5892410216_e00154006e_z.jpg

Then a little more toner lacquer to blend it all together. Finally, 6 coats of Deft gloss lacquer.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6011/5891844159_8870c6a421_z.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5268/5891844379_811d8be81a_z.jpg

I also finished off the chassis aside from remounting the CRT.
I decided to paint the corroded copper plated parts rather than have them re-plated. It's a lot cheaper and easier. Looks pretty good too I think.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5279/5891851669_21e93e7164_z.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5306/5892410868_bcd324bd1b_z.jpg

I'll let it sit for a few weeks to allow the lacquer to fully cure before I rub the finish out. That will take care of the over-spray on the sides.
Here's a preview in the meantime.
Now where did I put that logo :dammit: I clearly remember putting it somewhere safe. If I could just remember where :scratch2:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5270/5891845013_9ee51ca706_z.jpg

I will be headed your way in the morning with your next project or parts. The one you are doing now looks great.

I will be headed your way in the morning with your next project or parts. The one you are doing now looks great.

Thanks! When do you think you'll be in my area ? I need to make sure I'm around.

I will get with you Sunday if that's ok. We won't be there before tomorrow evening.

I will get with you Sunday if that's ok. We won't be there before tomorrow evening.

Sunday afternoon between noon and 5pm would be ideal for me, but I'm flexible. See you then and have a safe trip.



For those of you wondering what the heck we're talking about. Bill is kindly bringing this Motorola 12K1 up from Tennessee and bringing back down the Motorola 19K1 chassis I restored (http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=248133) for 'TheNixer' a while back.
Hmm, no 'Do It Right!' sticker :scratch2:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6044/5902446879_14318e4155.jpg http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6028/5903007062_e169b89158.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5195/5902446899_01fe2db320.jpg

Bill R made it to my place safe and sound with the 12K1. It has a 12LP4A RCA CRT with good emissions and life test :) Certainly better than the 12LP4 currently in my 12K2.

I'll have to recoat it with Aerodag or SlipPlate before I can use it though.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5317/5902393945_8e6723f388.jpg http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6058/5902394383_98cbf219ea.jpg

Apparently, early versions of the 12K1 and 12K2 had a TS-23 chassis not a TS-53. This 12K1 must be one of the early version because it has a TS-23B. I was planing to scrap it for parts, but unfortunately the focus coil and yoke won't work in WinkyDink's set.

That leaves me with a decision to make - do I scrap the 12K1 or restore it ? It is a really cheap set, but the minimalist design is kinda growing on me :scratch2:

do I scrap the 12K1 or restore it ?

If you scrap it out, it's gone forever! I'd poke it with a stick first to make sure nothing is alive in there.:para:

If you scrap it out, it's gone forever! I'd poke it with a stick first to make sure nothing is alive in there.:para:

Luckily no critters were found - or droppings :yuck: Just a lot of nesting material.
Yeah, I figured you guys would encourage me to save it. I'm willing, but it's got to go soon after I do. I'm way past out of space. The main challenge will be the cabinet. All the veneer has to be replaced :(

I'll start a dedicated thread once I begin work on it. I imagine this thread is getting confusing. For now, here's a quick look at the chassis.
Definitely cheaper that the TS-53. No bottom cover on the chassis and very little copper plating.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6036/5902395051_8a58c933ca_z.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6036/5902395051_8a58c933ca_z.jpg

There's all your Dag coating, all you have to do is glue it back on! :D

I have a 12" Motorola chassis sitting in a shopping cart at work, not sure what model it was out of but it has one of the clear knobs and one of the red ones with the brass insert and M squiggle logo. Guess I should identify it and offer it up for parts if applicable.

Eric,
If Bob doesn't need the red knob with the brass squiggle logo could I get it from you?
Just P.M. me the specifics.
Thank You,
Bret

I'll take a look at it on Monday when I go back to work, unless I go there tomorrow to get my phone that I forgot, then it'll be sooner. :yes:

I just realized I have the 10" table model of this set here with chassis TS14. Chassis looks almost identical to the 12" from what I remember when I had it out of the cabinet. My reverse silkscreen CRT mask has some flaking that I'm not sure how to tackle. Another excuses not to start working on it. :scratch2:

I sort of wish I had the 10VK22 floor model cabinet shown on the front of the Sams folder. There's something very attractive about it's modern lines.

Well I understand the space part, but if the CRT was good it might be worth a shot. After all it did survive an F4 tornado, 8 people did not. I think it wants to live. At least there is no intricate trim to reproduce on the cabinet. I will certianly be watching for pictures if you do restore it.


Luckily no critters were found - or droppings :yuck: Just a lot of nesting material.
Yeah, I figured you guys would encourage me to save it. I'm willing, but it's got to go soon after I do. I'm way past out of space. The main challenge will be the cabinet. All the veneer has to be replaced :(

I'll start a dedicated thread once I begin work on it. I imagine this thread is getting confusing. For now, here's a quick look at the chassis.
Definitely cheaper that the TS-53. No bottom cover on the chassis and very little copper plating.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6036/5902395051_8a58c933ca_z.jpg

I dragged my chassis home today, it does have the clear channel selector (somewhat yellowed or dirty) but I was wrong about it having the red knob with a squiggle, it's just a clear knob with a brass insert and it's busted to boot.

I still haven't looked to see what model it is.

I have 2 or 3 spare red knobs, but they're missing the brass insert :( If anyone would like them, let me know.

I fabricated some new CRT mounts from a neoprene rubber sheet and glued them in place.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6132/5942153498_02d240be78_z.jpg http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6006/5941590631_428de5f462_z.jpg

I recoated that 12LP4A with Aerodag and installed it. It's nice and bright :)
At first, I couldn't get the picture centered or focused well, then remembered that the entire focus assembly can slide back and forth. That got it :yes:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6021/5941593053_fbff27e93e_z.jpg http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6129/5941594499_2564a34b3f_z.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6025/5942159620_e3cedb2a0b_z.jpg http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6132/5942158150_e73988b794_z.jpg

There are some light and dark bars. I'll try swapping the damper tube. Then get a test pattern going and tweak the linearity.

I was going to do an alignment, but I don't think there's any need.

That's looking really good!

Is the raster shorter on the left than the right? Or that just the camera angle? When I had that problem it turned out to be the damping resistors in the yoke, and possibly the caps.

John

That's looking really good!

Is the raster shorter on the left than the right? Or that just the camera angle? When I had that problem it turned out to be the damping resistors in the yoke, and possibly the caps.

John

Interesting - I hadn't noticed that. The camera may be at a bit of an angle, but not enough to account for the distortion I think.
The yoke in this set is a replacement and has 1200 ohm damping resistors rather than the more typical 560 called for on the schematic.

I'll know more once I get a test pattern hooked up.

Something else I just discovered. I was having a heck of a time polishing the bezel. It seemed like it was just clear coated brass so I try some stripper on it and it came away gold in some areas !

It seems that the inner surface is painted gold while the outer is clear coated. I wonder if that was to cut down on reflection and glare ?
I suppose I could attempt to reproduce the effect. I think it will be easier just to paint the whole thing gold though. Then it will match the trim I've already painted.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6029/5942216010_267b26f516_z.jpg http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6026/5941656219_fd25111698_z.jpg

If you scrap it out, it's gone forever! I'd poke it with a stick first to make sure nothing is alive in there.

Well after seeing your last video, I'd say maybe this one is too far gone! My previous comment was without knowing the condition of the cabinet.

Nice job on the 12K2! My wife even likes it!

I have noticed the "Zebra striping" as well in vintage TV's, possible interaction with the DTV converter box? Is it possible to shoot the composite audio and video directly in and bypass the RF and IF circuits?

Possible, but sometimes amp circuits must be built.

I have this "zebra striping" problem Terry is referring to in addition to the keystoning jeyurkon noticed.
The yoke is a replacement and I wonder if it could be causing both problems :scratch2:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6145/5967724859_3b1755ac3b.jpg

I have this "zebra striping" problem Terry is referring to in addition to the keystoning jeyurkon noticed.
The yoke is a replacement and I wonder if it could be causing both problems :scratch2:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6145/5967724859_3b1755ac3b.jpg

Bob,

Keystone is almost always a yoke problem. But it may be a wrong value capacitor or resistor mounted in the yoke. Still, if you can find an original yoke, your problems may be solved...

Even my Panasonic CT-28 makes the zebra striping, I have to try replacing the damper tube or the EHT rectifier. Your set is very nice, I like it!

My two cents...

I wonder if the zebra striping is the burst being displayed during horizontal retrace? A good test is to adjust the horizontal hold: if the zebra moves in the opposite direction to the picture when you adjust the control, that is it.

Remember that in the pre-color era, this would not have been a problem!

Otherwise, the stripes may be due to ringing on the forward sweep. Since it is on the left, the trouble would then be in the damper circuit.

Terry

I saw the pictures again and see the zebra across the screen. I bet it is the color burst on the screen.

Interesting. I've had trouble with chroma dots on some sets, but not stripes.

Even my Panasonic CT-28 makes the zebra striping, I have to try replacing the damper tube or the EHT rectifier. Your set is very nice, I like it!

Thanks! I looked through some vintage TV service manuals and they indicate the tripes could be caused by a defective damper, linearity control or yoke capacitor.

The yoke that came with this set was a replacement. It had 1,200 ohm damping resistors across the vertical windows and a 47pF cap across one of the horizontal windings.

However, this is what the schematic shows. Two 560 ohms resistors on the vertical windings. A 100K and a 2,700 in series with a 60pF on the horizontal.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6130/5972757798_a374e48b0a_z.jpg

So I rewired mine to match the schematic and swapped out the VOT. That just about got rid of the zebra stripes and keystoning. They are still faintly present, but not as bad as before.
I'll try tweaking the component values in the yoke a little.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6018/5971668627_b28a68767d_z.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6139/5972230032_e4e6f1d8bc_z.jpg

Hmmm. I find the problems discussed in this forum very interesting. I am suffering from a bad cold this weekend and the problems help keep my mind off my ailment. I trust you do not mind me discussing my thoughts and asking a couple more questions?

My synopsis: please jump in if you think this is not true. I suspect the resistors across the vertical coils, besides dampening the vertical retrace, would also dampen any ringing due to the horizontal retrace pulse ingress. The close proximity of the horizontal and vertical coils means that they will couple voltages. If the resistors across the vertical coils are too high, the horizontal retrace pulse could couple to the vertical coils, ring at a high frequency and the oscillating voltage couple back to the horizontal coils. This would then modulate the forward scan causing the ripples. This would imply that when adjusting the horizontal hold the ripples would remain stationary.

Putting the 560 ohm resistors in provided the necessary damping and should cure the ringing due to the above. And the keystoning would result from an imbalance on the yoke, so I suspect your rewiring and placing the matching resistors across half winding each solved that.

Could you confirm that when you adjust the horizontal hold, what happens to the ripple?

(Isn't the set's own CRT a terrific diagnosis tool?)

Terry

That's what I had to do with my Sylvania replacement yoke, change the caps and resistors. The Merit catalog suggested making a box with a pot and cap to find the optimal values to substitute, but I found that the extra lead length made it useless.

John

Terry, your theory makes sense to me. The ripples move in the same direction as the picture when I adjust the horizontal hold.

I can see why Merit made that suggestion. It sure is a pain swapping values with yoke mounted on the CRT neck.

Thanks! I looked through some vintage TV service manuals and they indicate the tripes could be caused by a defective damper, linearity control or yoke capacitor.
Or Flyback. Last year to solve a similar problem on a sixties set I had to replace it. I think some windings of the secondary coil were shorted.