Today my girlfriend gave me this television for Christmas. :banana: I had seen it at an antique mall a couple months ago but restrained myself from buying it. I love it, however, it has the major problem of not showing a picture. All that happens when I turn it on is that I hear the high pitched "squeal" that you hear from a tube tv and some static coming from the speaker. I know that there aren't any analog channels to transmit a signal, but I was expecting at least some light to come from the display. The other problem is that I can't seem to find a model number anywhere. All that I know is that it was made by Westinghouse..I'm guessing mid-late 50s? This has been an issue in finding specifications such as age and troubleshooting tips. Anyone have any info?
Thanks! Sid
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac275/bigredmachine878/Television001.jpg

Awesome present - I never get stuff like that!
Please don't turn it on again before doing some troubleshooting. You're likely to burn something out.

That high pitched squeal is probably from the horizontal / high voltage circuit around 15 kHz. Most likely some capacitors have gone bad and are causing problems.

I'm not sure of the model, but I'm sure someone else does.

P.S. Sweet PF profile pic ;)

A nice looking set indeed my friend!


GOOD FOR YOU :)

That high pitched squeal is probably from the horizontal / high voltage circuit around 15 kHz. Most likely some capacitors have gone bad and are causing problems.

It's also possible that it's just the regular flyback whine. I can hear almost any CRT television when it's running. My parents had a very large CRT TV when I was in high school that drove me nuts.

Things could be coming up but the CRT may be a little too dim to tell what's going on. Did you try this set in a dark room or turn off the lights?

Reguardless, you have some initial troubleshooting to do so try to resist the temptation of any more power ups before checking it out.

As for information, find the model and/or the chassis numbers and with an index book we can find what the Howard Sams Photofact schematic is for it.

Your girlfriend must not understand the addictive effects that come with TV collecting....:D

Welcome to the wonderful world of recapping!

Excellent Fifties "Googie" styling ! Ya done good !

You will need to replace the old electrolytic and paper (or plastic-coated paper) capacitors if you expect it to play reliably:

http://antiqueradio.org/recap.htm

The capacitors go bad with age, so this is necessary even if the TV was never used.

The TV might have additional problems that were the reason it was retired. If you finish recapping and it still doesn't work, people in this forum can help you diagnose what other repairs it might need.

If you browse the TV articles in this section, you'll get an idea what's usually required to make a vintage TV work normally.

http://antiqueradio.org/restoration.htm

If you never restored a tube device (radio, TV) before, a television is not a good beginner's project. It has high voltage, which can be dangerous, and if you make a mistake while replacing dozens of parts, the TV will not work, anyway. This article has advice on finding a repairman:

http://antiqueradio.org/howfix.htm

I would not turn turn it on any more until you have at least replaced the electrolytics in the power supply. You wan't learn anything more (it doesn't work, duh) and you might damage it.

Phil Nelson
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

P.S. Cool looking set.

Over the summer I worked on re-capping a Zenith console radio so I have a some experience with this. Phil, your recapping article helped me out a lot with this project. What kind of safety precautions should I take when recapping this tv? Is it unsafe even when unplugged? I hope this isn't too out of my league.

Lucky dog! A nice set and a thoughtful girl friend.

I'm guessing that it's later than 1957. There's a portable Westinghouse TV of similar vintage shown at Eric's TV's. (http://www.vintagetvsets.com/) Maybe the owner of that site can give you more info.

John

If your radio project was successful, then recapping a TV will be more of the same. A capacitor is a capacitor. I like to be methodical and check off each part on the schematic and parts list when I replace it. If you can't find a schematic, all is not lost. You can usually read the values off the old caps.

Taking a lot of close-up photos of the chassis underside may be helpful, especially if there are crowded areas where you'll need to temporarily disconnect other things to reach a cap.

For an electrolytic can that contains multiple caps, I usually label each lead with a tag before disconnecting, to make sure I reconnect everything correctly.

When the TV is unplugged, it won't jump off the workbench and shock you. Keep your hands out of the high-voltage cage when it's powered up. When you remove the anode lead to the CRT, you can first discharge it by slipping a screwdriver blade under the rubber cap to touch the metal connector, with a clip lead connecting the screwdriver shaft to the chassis. (That's a very cautious approach; I usually just unplug it.)

Otherwise, just use common sense when the chassis is powered up. If you are measuring voltages, follow the old-timer's practice and keep one hand in a pocket. That way, even if your measuring hand accidentally bumps a high-voltage source, you won't create a conductive path that leads from one hand to the other (straight through your heart).

Before you spend a lot of time recapping, it would be good to know whether your CRT is a dud. Perhaps there is a collector club nearby and you could borrow someone's CRT tester. Here's a club list:

http://www.antiqueradio.com/clublist.html

Absent a CRT tester, you can check resistance between the CRT's filament pins. Infinite resistance means the filament burned out and it's a dud. Resistance of a few ohms means the filament is intact and the CRT is worth trying (although it still might be so worn-out that its picture is very dim). You can look up the CRT's data sheet to identify the filament pins:

http://tubedata.tigahost.com/tubedata/

If your CRT's dead, you might want to hold off on restoration work until you locate a replacement.

Happy holidays,

Phil Nelson

Nice tv.... Is that a sansui in the background????? :D

Looks to be a Pioneer SX series to me. Just sold an SX-626 this week.

Nice present and good luck with it.

One WON'T be enuff...Next time you're tramping thru the local Anty-Kue mall, there'll be an old Zenith or Motorola look at you plaintively... Or one of those too-cute 8" RCAs from '56...Or maybe you'll fall victim to a Lilliputian 1.5" set from the '80s...Or a 3" Pilot from '47....Face it, Buster, you're hooked...(grin)

One WON'T be enuff...Next time you're tramping thru the local Anty-Kue mall, there'll be an old Zenith or Motorola look at you plaintively... Or one of those too-cute 8" RCAs from '56...Or maybe you'll fall victim to a Lilliputian 1.5" set from the '80s...Or a 3" Pilot from '47....Face it, Buster, you're hooked...(grin)

:yes: Youre right,you can't stop at just one!!
I sure wouldn't mind some Motorola's looking plantively at me right now!

or an Admiral........:yes:

:yes:...or all three colors of Sylvania Dualettes!

I took off the back panel and the model number on the chassis is V2373-1. Under this there is another number: 1E13. The tube layout diagram on the top underside of the cover notes that the picture tube is a 17CDP4. I still can't find any info on the model using the model number on the chassis, but searching the tube number I got the pdf of the info sheet put out by RCA. The inside is pretty caked with dust. Here are some pictures of the inside with the back panel removed:

http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac275/bigredmachine878/Television002.jpg

http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac275/bigredmachine878/Television004.jpg

http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac275/bigredmachine878/Television003.jpg

http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac275/bigredmachine878/Television005.jpg

EDIT: I should really use Google more instead of Yahoo..A search of the model number found a link to a google books archive of popular science. The Nov 1957 article has a chart of new model televisions with this model listed as a 17" portable with an msrp of $170. More info here: http://books.google.com/books?id=Oy0DAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA146&ots=VMflRLiBlF&dq=westinghouse%20v2373-1&pg=PA147#v=twopage&q&f=false

I see one tube that looks like the vacuum leaked out. Most tubes have a silvery patch in the inside of the glass envelope, called the getter. Its function is to "get" any remaining gas molecules in the vacuum left over when they made the tube. Turns white if the atmosphere gets inside.

All the wax coated caps will need to be replaced. As others mentioned, these are capacitors with paper inside, and they absorb moisture out of the air and the acids in the paper corrode the foil and make electronic leakage paths. Modern capacitors are made with more durable materials. And will work better.

Yep, that tube by the HV cage is bad......

SR

Yep, that tube by the HV cage is bad......

SR
Yup, looks like 19AU4 (damper). The sandcoated fusible resistor (just below the tuner in the first pic) is probably open. We used to call 'em Gravel Gerties.:D They were made in values of 4.7, 5.6 and 7.5 ohm IIRC.
Bill(oc)

its a hot chassis, dont operate with the back off unless you have an isolation transformer.

its a hot chassis, dont operate with the back off unless you have an isolation transformer.
Is this a problem even if it is unplugged? I have heard televisions are dangerous to work on even if they aren't plugged in.

its a hot chassis, dont operate with the back off unless you have an isolation transformer.

I've heard this mentioned several times, but have always wondered how an isolation transformer helps make things safer. Does it ensure the neutral line is actually at ground?

-J

The HV lead to the picture tube can give you a pretty good jolt if the capacitors are good enough to store a charge and always assume that they can. Get in the habit of discharging it as the first order of duty whenever the back is off.

The only jolt I ever got was from the picture tube itself-it can hold a charge for some time.

You can get the Sam's Photofacts for the set here (https://www.samswebsite.com/en/photofact/search?s=Search&t=model&o=0&k=V2373).

Looks like it had water spilled in it?

John

hot chassis means if you "can' come into contact with line current, the set was prob builit with a safty interlock and some means to keep the metal chassis from contact with the user,when plugged in.


CRT and shock you even when unplugged, not enough current to kill, but enough to cause sudden muscle contraction that can cause secondary injury by jerking into something.

The hot chassis on the other hand can kill if pluged into the outlet and you manage to touch it and a good ground, as you can get main level current that way. This is assuming you come into the chassis (the set is apart, plugged in while you are working on it).

There is a lot of opinions about transformerless chassis, from only using them with isolation transformers (even with all the saftys in place) to changing the way they are switched on, to just leaving them as is as long as the saftey interlocks are present, and the chassis isolation mounts are in good shape.

Personally I think they are ok as long as all the safteys are working as designed, but still I would not operate one and be in contact with a good ground. I have a all metal GE tv like that, the entire chassis is isolated from the metal cabinet by a few plastic mounts. Not something I would trust my life on, so I would not grab the plugged in TV while standing barefoot on a concreate floor as an example...


If you dont have one, a good thing to have is a HV probe, easy safe way to discharge the CRT and conveinent tool for checking HV at the CRT anode.

For a set that looks that good from the outside, it's dissapointing to see the rust on the inside. You don't have to worry getting a hi-voltage shock, as the damper tube is cracked. It should a good performing set when restored.

The only jolt I ever got was from the picture tube itself-it can hold a charge for some time.

True but that jolt came from a capacitor through the HV lead to the picture tube.

True but that jolt came from a capacitor through the HV lead to the picture tube.

You can get jolted by the CRT itself. The CRT forms a capacitor. You can even discharge it and get a shock later because of storage effects in the glass.

See Repair_FAQ (http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/crtfaq.htm#crtchr).

John

You can get jolted by the CRT itself. The CRT forms a capacitor. You can even discharge it and get a shock later because of storage effects in the glass.
100% correct.

Good to know. Had that happen before. Coulda sworn I discharged it. I probably did.

CRTs can self-recharge to some degree. I have discharged them many times, then a few seconds or minutes later, I discharge and get another spark again.

To the original poster: This shock hazard in CRTs only applies to sets that have been recently turned on. Nothing is going to hold a charge weeks (or decades) after it was shut off.

Decades no, weeks yes. My Pioneer RPTV tried to kill me. I figured the first shock discharged it but noooo. Not the first, nor the second, nor the third. I'm slow learner.

Thanks for the warnings guys. Can someone point out, from the pictures, where inside the set I should avoid poking at for safety? After the holidays I'm going to replace the failed tube and see where that takes me.

You'll be much better off learning how to properly discharge the tube so that you don't have to worry about any unpleasant surprises.

The first thing to do when working on any set of this nature, is to equip your work bench with a ground-fault recepticle. They respond in a fraction of a second. I had one on my bench ever since they came out.

I've researched how to discharge the tube to safely work on the set but no instructions seem to match my set. All of them say to look for a rubber cap on the tube and push a screwdriver under it with the screwdriver connected to ground. The chassis seems to surround much of the rear of the picture tube so it is hard to find this. Anyone have any experience with these types of sets that can give me some pointers? I was also wondering if there was a safe way to measure voltage from the tube before poking around. I ordered a NOS 19AU4 GTA to replace the dead one.
Sorry for all the questions..I figure I'd rather be safe than sorry
Thanks guys

Even if you discharge the second anode by the book the crt can hold some of the charge and bite you while you are holding it! OOPS! BANG!

The chassis is considered ground.
I'd discharge it several times, holding screwdriver there several seconds each time.
Bill Cahill

I've discharged the crt several times, only to have it still bite me a few minutes later. It's not a bad bite, just like a bad static snap if you rubbed your feet on the carpet too long. The worst part about getting shocked is having your hands fly back in response, hurting yourself on whatever you catch them on, or if you're carrying the crt and it snaps at you, causing your to drop the thing.

Typically for restorations, we leave the crt in the cabinet, and pull the chassis out for recapping.

Man, there is cheap, and then there is the uninsulated plate cap on that horizontal output tube! I would be quick to change that if it was my TV, and I intended to be spending much time poking around in there. Is that common on 50s sets? If the 807s on my RCA audio amplifiers were similarly equipped, I am sure I would have electrocuted myself several times by now.

That kind of cap (more of a clip, I guess) is not uncommon in my 1940s TVs, but in those the horizontal output tube is located inside the HV cage, where you have to work a little harder to shock yourself.

Phil Nelson