I figured I start a new thread on this Philco (http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=249124) since it's no longer a mystery ;)

I brought it inside and took a closer look at it. The cabinet is nicer than I realized at first.

Of course, it has the dreaded metal caltrop feet. I pulled those and put on some felt pads :yes:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1129/5106922210_f2611ae657_z.jpg http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1058/5106324961_f68524b534_z.jpg

Here it is next to my 70 which has been badly refinished (not by me!).
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1126/5106325115_b948946c94_z.jpg

I really hate the way they hard-wire these speakers. The only way to pull the chassis is to cut them or pull the speaker too.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1178/5106922690_99cc6f589d_z.jpg

There's been some work done on it. Looks like they just tacked the new caps across the old :nono: There are some new resistors too.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1163/5106922986_a1eef06306_b.jpg

I should probably get a new dial scale since this one has warped.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1316/5106325841_57357cf8a9_z.jpg

You know, you might be okay with the open coil thing-the escutcheon is of the newer style ('35+) which seems to be after about the period where they altered their manufacturing practices. Just having a nice cabinet like that is great: if I had come across this one, I would be happy that I finally had a cabinet for my Midwest chassis.

Thanks for the info - I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Would the controls on a Midwest line up in this cabinet ?

I was doing a little research and stumbled across Phil's excellent restoration writeup: http://www.antiqueradio.org/philc08.htm

That will be a big help for sure :yes:

I've always redone the wiring on Philco speaker harnesses-they just don't seem to hold up that well. I have a roll of cloth-covered brown wire for just such a purpose. As far as the tacked-on repairs go, that is how they all seem to have been done. I know Philco had radio-counter displays so you could grab the replacement bakelite block you needed, but they apparently never sold many of them.

I restuff bakelite blocks, but I don't use the heat gun/oven methods, I just pull the block, and chisel out the guts with a small screwdriver. It takes about two minutes to get them all cleaned out. One of the blocks in my 60 had two mica caps in it, so I just let it be, since the other micas in the set tested fine.

I'm always harping on this, but I would put a plywood bottom shelf under that speaker all the way to the back of the cabinet to enclose the bottom of the speaker compartment. The way they made them there's an acoustic short circuit from the front to the back of the cone: result, less bass.

I've always redone the wiring on Philco speaker harnesses-they just don't seem to hold up that well. I have a roll of cloth-covered brown wire for just such a purpose. As far as the tacked-on repairs go, that is how they all seem to have been done. I know Philco had radio-counter displays so you could grab the replacement bakelite block you needed, but they apparently never sold many of them.

I restuff bakelite blocks, but I don't use the heat gun/oven methods, I just pull the block, and chisel out the guts with a small screwdriver. It takes about two minutes to get them all cleaned out. One of the blocks in my 60 had two mica caps in it, so I just let it be, since the other micas in the set tested fine.

I have some three-conductor cloth covered repro. wiring around here somewhere too. The guts are popping out of a couple of these already so I'll try your technique. Hot stinky tar isn't much fun :yuck:

There's also a 5-section cap in a metal box. I hope that won't be a pain to restuff.
I hope I won't need to do an alignment.
I'm amazed at how many trimmer caps there are. Something like 7 in total.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1389/5112081408_8199856fa0_z.jpg

I'm always harping on this, but I would put a plywood bottom shelf under that speaker all the way to the back of the cabinet to enclose the bottom of the speaker compartment. The way they made them there's an acoustic short circuit from the front to the back of the cone: result, less bass.

Thanks for the suggestion. Once I get it working, I'll do a comparison with and without a bottom shelf.

The way they made them there's an acoustic short circuit from the front to the back of the cone: result, less bass.

Philco may have done it (less bass) to avoid too much hum from the power supply.

Seems that (some) early moving-coil speakers, especially those with the spider screwed into the center of the pole piece, had a kind of stiff action and didn't have all that good bass response and so the power supply didn't have to have the best filtering, and since larger filter caps were expensive...could be that the speaker, the speaker mounting, and the supply filters were all serendipitously ideal for the situation.

I think I read somewhere another idea about cleaning out those capacitor blocks: put them in the freezer for a while and the tar is easier to chisel out. Does that ring a bell?

The metal box isn't tough to work on. Just undo the nuts, pull back the tabs on one of the sides, and the wax-covered guts just slide right out. You'll spend more time wiring the replacement caps and wiring harness up.

I used to use an old pencil soldering iron, and plunge that into the tar on those black bakelites. Usually working one side of the cap, you could gently pry the whole assembly out. Have to be careful not to apply too much pressure to the side of the bakelite case, or it can break. Don't forget to check for soldered leads on those. It was a little messy but not bad. I think freezing the caps might be another option though I never did that myself. Keep us posted!

I think your dial scale may be fine. Most of them are warped. I would try placing it in a warm location and weighing it down to straighten it out. That might help. I would try doing that before getting a repro scale.

Gilbert

Thanks for all the great tips! I'll definitely keep you guys posted. I plan on digging into it soon :)

make sure to do videos :-]

make sure to do videos :-]

For sure. Two up already - check my channel.
I decided to take a little time tonight and try to spruce up the cabinet.

Here's the top as found
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4151/5127253105_8215407c0a_z.jpg

I used some Howard's Restore-a-Finish Walnut on it and slowly worked out the paint and stains.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4012/5127859242_9ae5f238fc_z.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4132/5127254203_5b51cb1b43_z.jpg http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1438/5127860428_2304bf0c69_z.jpg

The fluting had some nicks and dings. The Howard's hides it a bit as would some stain.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/5127253425_5fc6e0c69f_z.jpg http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1310/5127859554_09ba66043c_z.jpg

I used a brush dipped into Howard's to clean out the recessed areas and steel wool to clear off the paint.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4046/5127253831_6d60ba7621_z.jpg

I can't do much about this kind of damage :tears:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1424/5127860982_123f52a5a6_z.jpg

I follow the Howard's Restore-a-Finish with some Feed-n-Wax (orange oil and beeswax) and some Old English Lemon oil. This old wood was really thirsty :yes:
Here's how it turned out. Still some more cleaning to do in the nooks and crannies, but otherwise a great improvement.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1434/5127255329_b3864238f9_z.jpg

I do like to preserve and old finish when possible :)
I certainly has more character than that badly refinished 70.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1353/5127254797_a8cec58a45_z.jpg

Can anyone spare a couple black hex knobs ?

I've started poking around with this chassis. It has some deeply rusted areas and the tuning capacitor doesn't turn very well.
The tubes clean up nicely though :)
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5126/5329278136_3d0e075d8e_b.jpg

A closer look revealed a few bent plates. I straightened them out and cleaned out some of the dirt. It's rotating freely now.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5161/5329278442_4e2fe83c7f_b.jpg

I'm going to remove all the old repairs and restuff the filter caps.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5044/5329278976_40ae7faa8d_b.jpg

Looks like a candidate for a soap up, scrubdown, and rinse. In this kind of weather, sitting it on an old towel in the bathtub!

I gave it a bit of a cleaning and it's a little better.
I'm not a fan of painting chassis in general, but I think I'll give it a go on this one. So much of the cad plating is gone.

Here's a little test I did last summer using "stainless steel" (top) and "chrome" (bottom) enamel spray paint. I think the chrome is a pretty good match for cadmium plating.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5084/5332257372_4d707761fe_z.jpg

I removed that grungy tuning cap and gave it a bath. Then used some naval jelly to remove the rust.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5244/5332257580_f40d97ee4d_z.jpg

That gave me a chance to repack the planetary drive bearings too.
I washed off all this old grease and gunk using WD-40 and repacked with general purpose white lithium grease.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5206/5332257826_c11e96e6c6_z.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5164/5331645333_687a9ddc87_z.jpg

I sprayed the copper fork thingy with contact cleaner to make sure the movable plates were making good contact with ground.
It's working very well now :)
Physically that is. I still need to get the radio working electrically ;)
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5046/5332258324_8c4e59c295_z.jpg

Wow, you and PaulOF have both got me really excited about trying to make my radio look better. I fixed it electronically, but its appearance can definitely use the tender loving care you guys have shown your sets. Looks like I'll be getting some 0000 steel wool, Gojo, and some Restor-a-Finish tomorrow.

I've heard about Gojo for a while but have never tried it. Last weekend while picking up an air filter I noticed some right next to the register and finally picked some up. Can't wait to try it on something :D

I also stumbled across these Bob Flexner furniture restoration videos recently. Great tips on sprucing up an old finish, stripping, staining, grain filing, etc. Fantastic stuff :yes:

Here's a link to part one of seven: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GChxtaKla7c&feature=player_detailpage

-

Oh wow. What a beautiful job on that tuning condensor. On the chassis, I'm curious about what those two big old fahnstock clips on either side of the filter cap clamps are for.

That tuning condenser looks delicious! Beautiful.

Of the hand cleaners for use on cabinets, I really like Goop Orange with no pumice. It smells great (you'd wish you could eat it!) and does a good job on cabinets and on hands. I get mine at Horror Fright.

Paul: Fahnestock clips: Philco liked to use those for antenna & ground connections.

Thanks! Citri-Strip reminds me of orange pudding - so tempting to take a taste :)

Yep, those are the ground and antenna connections.

I love how you explain and document your work. Great job!

Thanks. I figure the tuning knob sees the most use so it should have a smooth action.

This radio was missing two of the hex knobs. Since then I've picked up a couple more smaller knobs and one larger.
I think the original used four small, but I really like having the one larger knob on the tuner.

Thanks for the link on furniture restoration. I'll definitely give those videos a watch before I start.

Personally, I love the smell of Gojo because it always brings back memories of my dad. He was an auto mechanic and used it religiously for cleaning the grease off his hands. I figure if it was good enough for that, it can take off 70 years of accumulated grease and oil on my radio.

Thanks for the link on furniture restoration. I'll definitely give those videos a watch before I start.

Personally, I love the smell of Gojo because it always brings back memories of my dad. He was an auto mechanic and used it religiously for cleaning the grease off his hands. I figure if it was good enough for that, it can take off 70 years of accumulated grease and oil on my radio.

He goes fast in those videos but covers an amazing amount of topics. I definitely recommend repeated viewings.
I got some of the lithium grease on my hands and boy does it stick. I was glad to have the Gojo handy.

...

I think your dial scale may be fine. Most of them are warped. I would try placing it in a warm location and weighing it down to straighten it out. That might help. I would try doing that before getting a repro scale.

Gilbert


I've been putting weight on it for about a day and it is showing signs of improvement. We're heading into another cold spell though so I'll need to put it near a space heater to keep it warm.

They told me that back home the little theatre group actors, to take the makeup off their face, used ......they needed so much of it, that they used......cans of Crisco!

wheres the youtubes ?

It's starting to show some signs of life :)
I pulled the 80 and simulated it's filament with a power resistor. With about 110 VAC on the primary, all the secondary voltages are looking good.
The #47 dial bulb was blown, but I had a replacement handy.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5081/5340616778_915608b2af_z.jpg

YOUTUBES. hehe.

Maybe in a couple days. I don't have time to do the editing.

Glad to see it is coming along. In mine, at least one of the bakelite blocks only had a mica cap in it, so I left that one be, as it didn't test as leaky. I'll be curious if you can get the dial to track properly, as mine is about 50kc off on the low end of the dial, the trimmers just wouldn't compensate that far, but reception was excellent, better than a comparable Atwater Kent that I have.

There are several 110 pF micas in the bakelite blocks. I already picked up replacements so figure I'll go ahead and use them. I hope to fire it up in a few days.

I've finished unmounted and unstuffing all the bakelite block capacitors. Also the tone control and metal box cap.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5165/5348133954_7a74228563_z.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5089/5348134202_8067160c84_z.jpg

It actually wasn't all that bad. Next, I'll clean up the tubs and mount new caps inside.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5245/5347524197_3eb4b02760_b.jpg

Hi bandersen,

I just saw your latest video--great stuff, as usual!

If I remember correctly, the depth--and therefore the "mesh"--of the tuning capacitor plates can be easily tweaked using that nut/screw arrangement on the back. It is an adjustment used to change the point at which that single rear ball bears vertically on the end of the rotor shaft. Tightening the screw pushes the ball and rotor forward, and vice versa; the nut locks it in place when everything is nice and centered.

Hi bandersen,

I just saw your latest video--great stuff, as usual!

If I remember correctly, the depth--and therefore the "mesh"--of the tuning capacitor plates can be easily tweaked using that nut/screw arrangement on the back. It is an adjustment used to change the point at which that single rear ball bears vertically on the end of the rotor shaft. Tightening the screw pushes the ball and rotor forward, and vice versa; the nut locks it in place when everything is nice and centered.

Thanks! I'm sure you're right although the nut/screw are pretty well fused together on mine. Luckily the scraping I had was only on one set of plates rather that the whole rotor shaft being out of whack. A little tweak to the position of the fixed plates in that section cleared it right up.

I've restuffed the block caps with the aide of all the great info at philcoradio.com (http://www.philcorepairbench.com/bblokcap.htm)
I don't see any point in refilling the tubs with anything since the open side faces the chassis.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5162/5351990117_5f351bc72e_z.jpg


The 8035-D was confusing though. It doesn't match what philcoradio.com showed. It also doesn't follow the usual wiring where both caps are connected to the lug terminal.
Instead, the terminal opposite the lug is the common terminal.
http://www.bobandersen.com/images/Philco%2060/8035-d.jpg

I'm always harping on this, but I would put a plywood bottom shelf under that speaker all the way to the back of the cabinet to enclose the bottom of the speaker compartment. The way they made them there's an acoustic short circuit from the front to the back of the cone: result, less bass.

I have to agree with this. A 250Hz tone has a wavelength of about 4ft, so at least a partial acoustic short circuit would exist here, right in the critical lower midrange. 100Hz material, if deliverable from this set (I suspect it is), would pretty much be cancelled out.

It would appear that the 8035-D is wired correctly with the mounting lug being the ground end of the .00011 mfd. cap.

I have to agree with this. A 250Hz tone has a wavelength of about 4ft, so at least a partial acoustic short circuit would exist here, right in the critical lower midrange. 100Hz material, if deliverable from this set (I suspect it is), would pretty much be cancelled out.

I'll definitely do a comparison with and without once I get it running.

It would appear that the 8035-D is wired correctly with the mounting lug being the ground end of the .00011 mfd. cap.

Yeah, I followed the schematic so it should be OK.

Speaking of schematics, I couldn't find this gooey looking thing on mine. I did a little research and discovered that it's a wavetrap added to later revisions. The bubbling goo appears to be old wax.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5007/5355594017_384c81492f_z.jpg

Here's the rebuilt metal box cap.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5001/5356209236_a50c7a2dfb_z.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5122/5355595081_5848f0be00_z.jpg

Call me crazy, but I don't like rust. So, I unmounted the power transformer and removed the clamshell covers.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5287/5356208454_c9d22c41f8_z.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5284/5355594193_f45acea99d_z.jpg

Then, I removed the rust and sanded them a bit.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5241/5355594397_dc2a436d83_z.jpg

Here they are after some primer. Next up, some black enamel.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5048/5356209864_ec2c2debd2_z.jpg

Oh yeah, that web site on the progression of circuit changes in the Philco model 60 is essential. From that, I was able to determine mine was the last revision.

On the Nostalgiaair website, there is an article: The Philco Model 60 Repair That Almost Wasn't, where the poor guy basically goes to recap the thing, says, hey- this radio has some weird changes, and alters his Philco back to the original style, only later realizing that those changes were intentional!

Ouch! I've taken loads of photos and taken notes so I should be able to get it back together properly.

I finally got all the rust off the chassis then applied some Rustoleum "Rusty Metal Primer". I'll go a few rounds of sanding and primer to fill in the pits.
The cadmium plating was fine in the unpainted areas.

I also popped out the two rivets holding on the IF coil shields so I can replace the rotting grid cap lead. It makes it easier to paint around too.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5126/5374045600_ea281aa6b7_z.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5006/5373446147_94650ef734_z.jpg

The original electrolytics are rated 8uF @ 475 VDC. I'm using 10uF @ 500 VDC. I think that will be close enough.

I cut the ends open using a hacksaw and found this inside.
I wonder what compound those crystals are ? Nothing horribly toxic I hope :eek:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5213/5386867540_5c1f0fb49d_b.jpg

What is electrolyte usually made out of? I'd imagine it's not too dangerous as long as it's dry and you don't eat it :)

-J

It's borax. Not bad at all.

It's borax. Not bad at all.
Ah, good to know.

I pretty much rebuilt these the same way as Phil Nelson. I did drill a small hole for the negative lead though.
After feeding the lead through, I wrapped it around the old terminal and soldered it. Originally, it made contact with the can just by pressure.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5097/5389564184_4990d4143f_z.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5180/5388958519_96cbbdf2be_z.jpg

The decals were already worn off one can so I didn't mind polishing them up. While doing so, I noticed that one can is stamped 61115 and has a flat top while the other is 61116 and has a rounded top.
The 61116 can also had some liquid remaining inside so maybe it's a really old replacement ?
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5053/5389321035_0c3ab13fc7_z.jpg

Anyone ever try filling those wet lytics with borax solution again?

Not that I know of. Sounds like an interesting experiment.

I think people have done that and then reformed the plates and all but...nice experiment, but I don't think I'd leave one in a radio.

Anyone ever try filling those wet lytics with borax solution again?

When I restored my 1937 Philco 610 the original electrolytics still had liquid in them. I drained it out, sealed the ends and installed replacement caps under the chassis. It amazes me how some of this stuff worked when new.

I've finished rebuilding the tone control. There are two capacitors mounted inside a little box. They're connected together at one end that goes to the output tube. The other end of one is grounded. The other cap can be switch in parallel or left disconnected. I potted it with black hot glue and polished it all up with Simichrome.

Kinda complicated for a two position tone control if you ask me!

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5015/5396185609_0ae3640bae_z.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5011/5396185899_6bbcc11c74_z.jpg

Wow! That is just beauteousful.
Paul

Thanks! I also spent a looooong time masking off the chassis and gave it a couple coats of Rustoleum Specialty metallic Chrome.
I followed that up with a couple coats of clear semi-gloss enamel. It's a pretty good match to cadmium plating I think.

I'll let it cure for a couple days then i can finally start putting this all back together!
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5211/5396742373_ed890a321c_b.jpg

Well, at least your tone control will work-mine is shorted out to the chassis, so it only works on the one setting. I'm guessing there should a be a fiber spacer or something on the control shaft that failed on mine. The set certainly lacks that 1930s "booming bass" that I'm used to.

Well, at least your tone control will work-mine is shorted out to the chassis, so it only works on the one setting. I'm guessing there should a be a fiber spacer or something on the control shaft that failed on mine. The set certainly lacks that 1930s "booming bass" that I'm used to.

The shaft should be ground it's the little contact pad that needs to be insulated. I think if that's shorted to the chassis (ground), you'll have a larger capacitance on the output which will filter out the lower frequencies.

I suppose you could just snip the wire to that switch contact.

The painted chassis has cured up real nice so it's finally time to put it all back together.
Good thing I took loads of reference photos ;)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4144/5412958532_406c57826b_b.jpg

I removed the speaker from the cabinet for closer inspection.
It looks fine from the back - not so much from the front.
I measure 432 on the output transformer which is close to the 400 on the schematic. The voice coil is dead on at 1.14 K.
Unfortunately, the VC seems to be open :tears: I'm not sure if it would be more practical to hunt for a new speaker or get this one repaired :scratch2:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5018/5420590120_3e5ac47013_z.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5292/5420590352_aed3b8d622_z.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5140/5419984027_b58030e7cb_z.jpg

It took me longer than it should have to realize that this speaker has been reconed - or at least someone attempted to recone it.

The new cone is off center, the surround is just scraps of cone material, and the spider and VC are missing :rolleyes:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5220/5420345441_f7394de122_z.jpg

I figure it should look just like this speaker from a Philco 38-10.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5296/5420952748_94487f0c3f_z.jpg

I'm all for trying to recone it myself, but have never done it before.

I found Weber Speakers (https://taweber.powweb.com/parts.htm) sells all sorts of reconing parts but am not sure what to order. Does anyone even sell spiders that screw on like these old Philcos ?

Or maybe I'm in over my head and should just send it out for repairs. Any suggestions ?

You're lucky in that this speaker was used in many Philco cathedral models. A few months ago, I fixed three Philco cathedrals for someone else, and they all used that speaker. And for all the changes the model 60 went through, the speaker seems to have stayed the same.

This article about the restoration of an Atwater Kent 206 describes (among other things!) a method for making a new voice coil/cone (look about half way down):

http://ludens.cl/Radiohis/ak206/ak206.html

(It seems implied to me that he fashioned a new spider out of card stock)

While his restoration wouldn't bear up to scrutiny of a concourse-type inspection, you certainly can't fault this guy's ingenuity. The lengths that he goes to to revive this old set are nothing short of inspirational! :yes:

Since you have all the other bits and pieces of the speaker, perhaps a similar method could be improvised...? He had access to a lathe, but maybe a somewhat less precise "former" could be attempted with a vertical fixed dowel rod and a concentric circle marked on the work table as a guide for the outer edge of the cone?

The quickest "fix" (term used generously) is to find a smaller PM speaker that will fit in the steel "basket" and secure it there. You can retain the field coil and output transformer and won't have to make any modifications to the radio's circuitry, plus the radio will appear more or less original from the back.

Of course, the sound won't be quite as nice--but acceptable. A working radio runs circles around a silent one!

This would be a tough one to recone ["don't try this at home"] since the voice coil is gone. You could buy a new cone and adapt it to an existing v.c. and spider but too much is gone here and it has the old style spider. This looks like one for Hank Brazeal. You don't need all that money you have, anyway. :yes:

I have a pacific radio tombstone that i parted out. the cabinet was too far gone. Would that speaker work? id have to go see it again. but if it would work you can have it + shipping.

This article about the restoration of an Atwater Kent 206 describes (among other things!) a method for making a new voice coil/cone (look about half way down):

http://ludens.cl/Radiohis/ak206/ak206.html

(It seems implied to me that he fashioned a new spider out of card stock)

While his restoration wouldn't bear up to scrutiny of a concourse-type inspection, you certainly can't fault this guy's ingenuity. The lengths that he goes to to revive this old set are nothing short of inspirational! :yes:

Since you have all the other bits and pieces of the speaker, perhaps a similar method could be improvised...? He had access to a lathe, but maybe a somewhat less precise "former" could be attempted with a vertical fixed dowel rod and a concentric circle marked on the work table as a guide for the outer edge of the cone?

Wow, that is really cool!

This would be a tough one to recone ["don't try this at home"] since the voice coil is gone. You could buy a new cone and adapt it to an existing v.c. and spider but too much is gone here and it has the old style spider. This looks like one for Hank Brazeal. You don't need all that money you have, anyway. :yes:

I think you're right about it being too tough for me right now. I've read lots of high praise for Hank, perhaps I'll give him a try if nothing else works out.

I have a pacific radio tombstone that i parted out. the cabinet was too far gone. Would that speaker work? id have to go see it again. but if it would work you can have it + shipping.

Thanks for the offer. The original is 6" in diameter with a field coil about 1,140 ohms. The output transformer has a DC resistance of 420 on the primary and less than 1 ohm on the secondary.

Ill check things out on mine. and ill let you know. if it dont match up, then it dont match up. but hey it was worth a shot. i know its a field coil speaker. just cant remember the type or anything as of now.

ya, this speaker field is 1850 ohms. so that probably wont work for you then. I tried. hehe

ya, this speaker field is 1850 ohms. so that probably wont work for you then. I tried. hehe

That's OK, thanks for checking.

I wonder if the speaker from this beat up 37-60 would work ? I do plan on restoring it too someday, but it's way down on my list.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3458/3903211540_328ca45a70.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2534/3903211910_7d9b1ce636.jpg

At least superficially, that is the same speaker. Looking at the 37-60 schematic is also pretty encouraging According to Nostalgia Air, the field coil is 1140 ohms, and the primary on the audio output transformer is 400 ohms, so it looks like you'd have a good one to use to set up your 60.

Cool - you saved me some time :D

The somewhat similar speaker for my Philco 70 is in the same condition - no VC or spider, but the FC and output tranny is good. So I'll either send them both out for repairs or try to roll my own voice coils. Money and time are both a little tight though so I hope the 37-60 speaker will do for now.

Whenver you can, it would be good for you to consider sending the speaker assembly out for restoration. You are doing such a fine job on this set, it would deserve a refurbished speaker as well. You can do that much later though since you have the speaker from the 37-60 to work with for now. Hope your dial scale does straighten out. I bet it will. I have also found that they don't have to be perfect. If they are slightly warped, they will work fine. Great job on that tone control! Looks like it just came out of the Philco factory!

Gilbert

The 37-60 speaker is in great shape and tests fine.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5214/5434865421_148f86911f_z.jpg

Some reproduction rubber parts just arrived today from renovatedradios.com. I got chassis and tuner cap mounts for this radio. I also got mounts for a couple other Philcos I'm working on.
Good stuff :thmbsp:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5171/5435475892_6eebd68e2c_z.jpg

I'd say go ahead and try to do a DIY resto on that speaker. Your solutions are always so elegant that I'm sure you'll have a working speaker...it just may take a while. You can always just rip out your work and send it to Harry anyway.

Thanks for the kind words. I really would like to give it a try someday. I'm a bit behind in my projects so it may take a while.

I've been reading a lot about open coils in old Philcos so I've been dreading getting out the ohmmeter. Well tonight's the night.

I was pleasantly surprised that all but two of them are very close.
One that's way off is the secondary on the last 2nd IF can. The schematic calls for 85 and I get 47.
I'm going to leave it alone for now and see how it sounds. I figure it could be a mistake in the schematic.
http://www.bobandersen.com/images/Philco%2060/2nd%20if.jpg

The other problem is an open section in the antenna coil :(
The 10 ohm section is fine, but the lower 0.7 is open.
There's some coating (wax?) around the lower section of the coil so it's a bit hard to inspect.
I believe this is where the ground connection is made. So somewhere between here and an inch or so above is the break.
I'll try to clean off the crud with alcohol and find it.
http://www.bobandersen.com/images/Philco%2060/ant%20coil.jpg

http://www.bobandersen.com/images/Philco%2060/open%20coil.jpg

I asked around and several other also measure about 45 ohms instead of 85 on the 2nd IF coil. So I'll assume that's OK. It's also pretty common for that 0.7 ohm SW coil to be open.

Those coils look pretty far gone. Given the work you have already put into the set, maybe you should replace the celluloid/coil with a new one. You'd be impressed with how easy it is to do, certainly well within your ability.

You certainly don't want to put this console all back together, only to have a coil open up on you once voltage has been applied for a few hours. I've been told that can happen.

After a little hiatus, I'm back on this project. First up, repairing the open SW antenna coil.

A helpful ARF member sent me a nice diagram showing how the coils are wound.
The main coil is the tapped secondary. The coil floating inside is the BC primary and the open coil on the outside bottom is the SW primary.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5269/5598343645_87111ed843_z.jpg

I carefully unwound it and found two breaks.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5264/5598343903_7d7b22fee4_z.jpg

I cleaned off the debris with rubbing alcohol and gave it a coat of shellac.
I've had this big spool of wire for years. The gauge is unmarked but it looks identical to the old wire. That's good enough for me.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5310/5598924922_d905305dc2_z.jpg

Glad to see you're back onto this one. Tolerances are pretty loose on the coil you have to wind, so just having continuity should give you some semblance of SW reception.

Glad to see you're back onto this one. Tolerances are pretty loose on the coil you have to wind, so just having continuity should give you some semblance of SW reception.

That's just what I was thinking. I wrapped a strip of thin plastic around the coil and used a little shellac to hold it in place. Then wound about 7 turns and sealed that in more shellac. I think it turned out well.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5145/5599967246_6c98b41ef9_z.jpg

Good news! A fellow restorer just emailed me that he's found a Philco 3/4 inch voice coil with original spider with wires attached! He's also offered to recone my speaker :)

Wow, Bob, You's a lucky ol' dog!

Parts plus a re-cone. I wonder how they make those cones? Some kind of form and press?

Buzz:thmbsp:

Wow, Bob, You's a lucky ol' dog!

Parts plus a re-cone. I wonder how they make those cones? Some kind of form and press?

Buzz:thmbsp:

Some clearly have a lap joint where the paper was rolled and glued. Others do seem to be pressed into shape somehow.

I cleaned off all the old cone remains and lots of dust & dirt. Also used some naval jelly to remove rust and shipped it off for reconing.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5268/5639237554_ae415682ef.jpg

That looks great! and should make it easier for them to re-cone.

Glass of glue anyone?:nono:

It would be fun to visit one of those re-coning shops.

Buzz

My re-coner found a tear between the voice coil and spider that set him back a little. I hope to have it back in a couple weeks.

I'm about half done reassembling the radio.
A few of the components values don't quite match any of the revisions shown at philcoradio.com.
For example the resistor with the white body in the upper-right is 90K, but it's 100K on the schematic.
Also the mica cap tho the left if it sure looks like 2000pF or is it 1200pF ? The schematic has 1400 pF.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5301/5656377076_65d48279df_b.jpg

I did some hunting around online and found another that looks identical to mine. It's so nice to have an all original reference.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a77/1philco/underchassis2.jpg

I'm in the homestretch (I hope). I reinstalled the tone control, cleaned the band switch and found a new volume/power switch.
The one that came with the set was 1M but should be 350K.
This 450K is the closest I could find and it has a really smooth action. If it works out well, I'll have to cut down the shaft.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5141/5670869827_0339b6f29c_z.jpg

All 3 grid cap leads need to be replaced including this one on an IF can.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5027/5670869833_3797e66cd2_z.jpg

Here's the icky, gooey coil I found inside :yuck:
It seems the old wax has bubbled over the years. Or maybe the coil form has outgassed ?
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5305/5671486530_acbb277275_z.jpg

I wired in a new lead and hit it briefly with a heat gun on low to reflow the wax.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5027/5670869847_6544da33df_z.jpg

Almost done :)
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5068/5670869859_5aa4d825d4_z.jpg

I found a few bad dogbone resistors and thought it would be fun to try replicating them using this technique. (http://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/replicating_old_dogbone_resistors.html)

My local JoAnn Fabrics had a sale on acrylic paint and I was able to get all 10 colors cheap :)
I got the epoxy putty at Home Depot and used corn starch for the releasing agent.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5226/5691630893_ed225f30c0.jpg


I messed up the first mold, but the next two turned out OK.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5149/5691631063_b024ea3aa8.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2148/5701782245_b8bcbee752.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5106/5691631261_c951b9e24f.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5306/5692201696_11ac2bbaf4.jpg



Here's the final result. Certainly not something I'd do on every project, but once you have the molds, it goes quickly.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5224/5691631935_b5ac232db6.jpg

Here it is all wired up and ready for power. There are a couple modern resistors in series in the back right.
It had already been replaced with a modern resistor when I got the radio and I wasn't sure of the wattage.
Once the radio is working, I'll see how hot it gets and create an appropriate dogbone.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5309/5691660051_67d1628573_b.jpg

I added a 2A line fuse and a 60W bulb (Dim Bulb Tester) and turned it on.
The B+ came up to about 500 then settled down to 250 - no smoke no flames :)
Also no sound until I added an antenna. Once I did, I was treated to some familiar local AM stations :music:

I removed the DBT now that I knew I didn't have any shorts. That got the B+ up to about 350v like it's supposed to be.
AM is very strong and clear now, but still no SW.

I loosely coupled an RF generator to the antenna input and scanned through the 1.5-4 MHZ band. Still nothing.
I suspect the LO isn't running in SW mode. Time for some troubleshooting.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5181/5691660263_7819127070_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5064/5691660803_76170591f9_z.jpg

Great dogbones! You could go into the business.

No LO on SW? Sometimes a tube doesn't like to oscillate up there, but another one will.

Great dogbones! You could go into the business.

No LO on SW? Sometimes a tube doesn't like to oscillate up there, but another one will.

Thanks. Right no LO on SW. I also discovered it cuts out at about 1400 on the AM band too.

I swapped in another 6A7, but have the same problem. The voltages on that tube are pretty close to what's expected.

I'll do some more checking.

I got a great suggestion from the guy who's reconing my speaker to try reversing the tickler coil connections.

Worked like a charm :banana: I have full coverage on the AM and SW bands now. Most likely someone rewound it the wrong way around.

I removed the oscillator coil and indeed the tickler was wound incorrectly. So I removed it and rewound it just like I did with the antenna coil.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2380/5698405993_a1e36fbf7c_z.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5225/5698978128_e244512f5a_z.jpg

I then did an alignment by peaking each of the four IF trimmer caps at 460 kHZ. They really weren't off by much, but it helped a little.

That chassis looks so good that it's a shame to put it back into the case!.. Just leave it on the table and plug 'er in!..:banana: Love the mold idea. !

Did you make a vid of that process?:scratch2:

Buzz

That chassis looks so good that it's a shame to put it back into the case!.. Just leave it on the table and plug 'er in!..:banana: Love the mold idea. !

Did you make a vid of that process?:scratch2:

Buzz

Thanks. Last night I received this email Maybe I could have saved myself a lot of time and effort :scratch2:

I've been working on the CAD drawings for manufacturing replacments for the original Philco Model 60 chassis. If any one would like one. Let me know. They will be reasonbly priced sheet metal chassis of the same thickness, punched out using a CNC turret press I own.

Yes, I made a video about casting those dogbones. It's starts at about 8:44. http://youtu.be/iBrJlkMY4XE#t=8m44s

That's cool.. re make the chassis!

but I like what you did to it.

I watched the vid.. great job as usual!

Buzz:D

There's just one item left to deal with - the dial lamp is very corroded and falling apart.
I drilled out the rivet holding it together, removed the rust and patched with J.B. Weld.
Then, sanded it down, painted silver and reassembled.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2594/5717018535_461ba6d6f3.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3031/5717583856_7dda865eb7.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2331/5717018857_e4e8abf723.jpg

And with that it's finally done :banana:
I'm still using the donor speaker though. One of these days the backordered cone will show up and I'll post an update.

Also, I never was able to completely flatten out the dial, but it works well enough.

Here's some before and after pics.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1163/5106922986_a1eef06306_z.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2597/5717027319_edbb7f1437_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5126/5329278136_3d0e075d8e_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3498/5717019065_34d9b7ba3a_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2767/5717584510_a0837f1f7f_b.jpg

Here it is back in the cabinet with the donor speaker. I think it sounds pretty good. I'll try enclosing the bottom as suggested earlier when I get the reconed speaker back.

The cabinet could use a little work and the knobs are a mix of black and brown, but it'll do for now.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2439/5717739240_7669dc2ae1_z.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3104/5717174471_2afa4413e9_z.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2087/5717174635_7ae5a04233.jpg

The reconed speaker just arrived in the mail. The paper cone was salvaged from another speaker as new ones seemed to be backordered indefinitely at the supplier my reconer uses.
Time to pop it in and give it a try.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5105/5734904138_e01b6f2511.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3505/5734355445_1e32a90533.jpg

I finally installed the rebuilt speaker and gave it a try. It sounds quite good. I certainly can't tell the different between it and the 37-60 speaker I had been testing with.

I blocked up the radio cabinet bottom temporarily and it does make a noticeable difference for the better. I think I'll cut a piece of masonite to size and mount it with some glue blocks.

I guess that's it for now. Perhaps I'll refinish the cabinet someday :scratch2:


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3454/5739455120_7f8e2b0517_z.jpg

Recommend a piece of plywood 3/8" or better rather than Masonite as the latter is too thin and can vibrate and rattle.

Recommend a piece of plywood 3/8" or better rather than Masonite as the latter is too thin and can vibrate and rattle.

Ah yes - good point!