I'm about to purchase an old Motorola Quasar Console TV and the picture tube is shot they say.. Is it possible to purchase used or rebuilt picture tube for this set? Its the same model as the set pictured

It is possible to rebuild it and many here can helpu get a replacement if needed as well as anythin else u may need. Does the set have remote control? Could u post a pic please?
Thanks,
John

I just did. I don't think its remote, they said they don't recall a remote

I have one in a different cabinet. I will post pic another time. It has original CRT and most all else and works beatifully. I love it.

I know, I've seen one like that on youtube in a different cabinet it has legs verse this one... How will it cost to get the picture tube rebuilt? would i have to ship it somewhere?

How much will it cost to rebuild tube? would i have to ship it anywhere? i'm not an expert at repairing things but i should be able to remove the picture tube and hook it back up..

First, u need to verify whether your CRT can be rejuvinated electrically with a good CRT tester/rejuvinator. CRT prices vary but are basically cheap. If u spend a bit reading related threads here u will learn all u need to make your work perfect for little money.

Yeah i've seen someone on youtube with a Sencore CR-7000 CRT Tester/Rejuvenator and repairing them with it. But i don't have the equipment and it cost over $700 bucks for one.. Also they said there is not a picture at all and they had a tv geek come over and look at the TV at one time and he said it's the picture tube..

I get the impression u want everything with as little effort as possible like lost people. If u had done a bit more research u would know good CRT rejuvinators often sell for a few dollars.
Stop being so lazy and u can have all u want much faster :)
Don't take offense I am also human and have to fight laziness too.

Also they said there is not a picture at all and they had a tv geek come over and look at the TV at one time and he said it's the picture tube..

So, you have not even verified to be sure u need a CRT? If u go about this project as u are so far u may be likely to do more damgage than good.

This should be in "rectangularies"

I'd be checking out the video output tube, first.

TOL Motorola Quasar sets were all solid state except for the H.V. rectifier tube. They used Sylvania or RCA 25X type crt's. The cheaper tube sets used the funky 23EG or the lousy Admiral tubes. Look inside to see if it has the original crt.

I would not be surprised if the problem was as simple as a bad 3AT2 for HV considering no picture and no verification as to why.

If this set has the TS915/919 solid state chassis in it...

No picture was often caused in these sets by a defective regulator transistor, located on the rear apron of the chassis near the top (on "works-in-the-drawer" units, elsewhere on the conventional chassis.) The Motorola part number is A1Y, and it looks like a miniature horizontal output transistor.

A very common problem.

This is why i mentioned about a TV geek coming over there place and saying its the picture tube, and yes i believe it's a solid state. I've never tested transistors resistors etc. I'm good at replacing them if i know which ones are bad. And i was thinking of the same thing about the picture tube. It may be good.. If anything i would just have a local TV repair man come over that knows how to fix old sets like that. I'm not going to cause more damage than good neither. I won't do something that i don't know what i'm doing, unless if I have guidance from someone...


JB5pro, I think input from other users and how Rejuvinators is better, people can say which make/model would be better for me. I would need something thats easy to use like the one mentioned. If you don't want to give any input on anything, you're more than welcomed to walk away from this subject. I've googled rejuvinators and nothing much really comes up on testing equip. plus like some members say, it may not be the picture tube, this is why i mentioned about the TV geek

[QUOTE=tvcollector;2983859]This is why i mentioned about a TV geek coming over there place and saying its the picture tube, and yes i believe it's a solid state. I've never tested transistors resistors etc. I'm good at replacing them if i know which ones are bad. And i was thinking of the same thing about the picture tube. It may be good.. If anything i would just have a local TV repair man come over that knows how to fix old sets like that. QUOTE]

I recommend contacting your local authorized Motorola dealer. Your friendly Motorola TV repairman will come out to you with his caddy of panels and parts to fix it right. Is the set still under warranty?

Do sets like this actually still have a warranty? I mean the set is over 40 years old

Some sets in the '60's came with a lifetime warranty on circuit boards in the TV but I was just tryin to be cute by recommend'n your local Motorola TV repairmen that likely does not exist. Every now and then I am kinda funny. When I am not funny keep in mind I am not charging anything for my version of comedy.
However, I am sure you can get you set in perfect condition with the help available here. There may be a member here that is close enough to u to make a good ole' fashioned service call to u. Maybe u can send the chassis to one of the Motorola experts on here if he is not close enough to drive.

It is likely that your CRT is good and can produce a good if not great picture. Maybe post some pics of the chassis inside and out to help diagnose. It is helpful if we see signs of low usage to have a clue if the CRT is still good. Mine produces an excellent picture. It is original from '68

Oh i see.. Kinda figured but wasn't sure. Ok, I will get back to you when i get the set in the next few days.. I'll take some nice sized pictures of the Chassis and post back.. Maybe you or someone can point out in the pictures of what part can be or is bad... I can plug the TV in and tell what it exactly does too..

Thanks..

I just got off the phone with the guy, and he said he looked at the set more, and there are two places on the partial board where some water damage has caused some swollen, and the other place to turn into mushy oatmeal type feel. He was going to deliver the set to me, due to me not having a vehicle that would fit this set. Now he's backing out, so now I'm making arrangements with a friend to pay him to travel about 50 miles to pick it up, the guy is selling the set for $50, he also mentioned seeing how he just noticed the small defects he mentioned he would go down to $25. He also noticed the set is also missing the cord which is not a big deal. I'm paying a friend $50 to use his help.. Does anyone think this is worth it?

I told the guy i'm going to call my friend to ask him to pick up the TV, and I'll call you back in a few minutes. Now he's not answering his phone

These sets are getting scarce, so yes, probably worth the effort. I wouldn't sink a tone of money into buying it, though.

If it needs a crt, not too big a deal. Not sure if it uses a 23V type (25AP22, 25XP22, something like that) or the later 25V type. I think Video Display Corp still has 25V tubes available, not sure about 23V.

Got the set home, and plugged it in and turned it on and these are the results. Picture does come on, but very dim, out of focus, and lots of red bleeding as you can see in the pics.. Also some lines going from left to right.. I've adjusted the red, green and blue drives and it doesn't brighten the screen much more, and makes the lines more noticeable.. Alos when it's on for a while, there is a noticeable hissing sound when putting my ear to the back of the set, and also notice weired smell, not a frying electronic type of smell, I think the flyback transformer has a problem .. Now what will i have to do to repair this thing?

Here are the pictures of the Screen

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I just noticed i left the set plugged in and has instant warm up. Leaving it plugged i turned it on and the picture seems a lot better and brighter than when i first plugged it in. Hum i wonder why that is?

Probably because the CRT needed "waking up". I've seen many CRT's, that have not seen regular use in years, that tested near dead upon initial testing. After letting the filaments "cook" at slightly higher filament voltage, the emission came back up.

There were two types of "instant on" in TV's from the '60's and '70's. The first type kept approx. half of the rated filament voltage on the CRT when the set was off. This method is usually found in tube sets. Many of the solid state sets kept the full 6.3 VAC on the filament at all times.

There are many opinions as to how damaging to the CRT instant on can be; but, I'm not a proponent of instant on and I usually disable the circuit whenever I can. The reason is because I've seen too many instant on sets with weak CRT's The main exception has been the early Zenith solid state sets of the early-mid '70's. I think those Zenith tubes would still function if a nuclear blast went off in the neck of the tube.

Concerning your tube, it would probably be a good idea to have it checked by someone with a good CRT tester/rejuvenator. If it's weak, there's a good chance it will respond well to rejuvenation, especially if the tester is a fairly modern one. It's been my experience that these delta gun CRT's usually last a reasonable length of time after rejuvenation with a good tester.

So does A CRT Tester/rejuventor Fix a Picture tube permanently, or is it a temporary fix?

Also i did a research on a B&K Precision 470 CRT Picture Tube Tester Rejuvenator pretty cheap..

Is this a good one, does anyone use this one and get great result?

I used a 470 back in the 70's and it worked pretty well, I believe it has a "Clean" function as well as Rejuvenation.

The Beltron in the one most people here recommend for doing a "Cleaning" on the CRT guns, never used one myself.

They can be found pretty cheap on eBay now and then, the 470 B&K seems to go for quite a lot still.

My opinion on cleaning or rejuvenating is it's not a permanent fix.
On an old B&W set that you will use a few hours a year to demonstrate it might be good enough to get by but one something you want to use for a daily watcher it may not last six months. When the cathode is gone it's gone and nothing will bring it back short of a rebuild. A Color tube just multiplys the problem x3.

I just opened the back of the set, and looks like there's about 30 years of dust, so I unplugged picture tube sprayed electrical contact cleaner on the pins and in the holes, also sprayed a lot of the controls, and it brought back the picture very well, The suckshon cup connected to the picture tube i noticed is loose, so i hear hissing when the screen becomes dark. Only problems now is certain parts of the screen has a slightly noticeable green tint and some other areas blue.. Red, blue or green bleeds very bad off objects on the screen depending on the color and back ground, bleeds less depending on color control setting, less color less bleeding. Also when the screen is blank (in between scenes or commercials) the lines are still noticeable...

Rejuvenation is not a permanent fix. Depending on the quality of the rejuvenator and the overall condition of the CRT, you could get anywhere from a day up to a year+ out of a rejuvenated CRT. And, some CRT's are so bad that rejuvenation will not bring them back. CRT rejuvenation was mainly done in order to either give the customer time to save up for a new CRT or a new TV set. In the case of TV collectors, it's usually done to give us time to locate a suitable CRT.

I use a B&K 470 for old and newer CRT's and it has done well for me. There is also the B&K 480, which is basically the same as the 470. And, there are the B&K 467 and 490, which are the better models with 3 meters so that the CRT guns can be evaluated all at once. Don't get any B&K tester with a model number below 467 because these older testers have a rather crude rejuvenate function that will often do more harm than good. The older B&K testers are fine if you don't plan to rejuvenate any CRT's and if you only plan to check older pre mid-'70's era CRT's. If you plan to check the newer inline gun CRT's from the '70's-present or plan on doing any rejuvenating, get a newer tester.

The Quasar "Works in a Drawer" never used a 23EGP22. They were all 25GP22's or equivalant. Only the earlier tube rectangulars used the 23". The Quasars were actually great sets. Somewhere I have a Motorola "tube" caddy specifically for the early Quasars with all the modules and books.

I see, I've pulled the drawer out.. Also there is a noticeable humming noise coming from there, sounds like a transformer hum, The only place i know of a transformer is on the opposite side, where I believe that is the power supply and it's not coming from there, that's the only place of electronics all the rest is in the pull out drawer. I noticed when turning the color all the way down to black/white, green still bleeds off white letters and red bleeds off dark objects.

sounds like your set's convergence needs adjusted, there's a panel with many knobs somewhere in the set to do this.

If i do that I'm just adjusting the convergence to make up for either bad caps or poor picture tube that needs rejuvination or replaced.. Couldn't this put more of a strain on the components and shorten the life of other components that have to work harder to make up for either leaky caps or picture tube, and cause future problems?

I don't touch most of the adjustment settings unless people recommend doing so..

If the convergence or purity is off it's not necessarily due to a serious fault in the set

Components like resistors and capacitors slighly drift from their initial value over the years, as long as they stay within their tolerance, this is acceptable and doesn't compromise their reliability, also the wirewound pots used in convergence circuits can drift off their factory settings over time

CRTs also get magnetized and this compromises the color purity (color blotches) so you should check your set's degaussing system and demagnetize the screen

I have an early 70s Philips delta gun set, when i got this set the convergence was way off but after some tweaking it came back to near perfect, and it's still there after almost 7 years of daily watching

so far on the color sets I have worked on (only a few) all the termistors in the degauss circuit have been open (broken actally). I have been using CL-90's in there place

I was sure that I worked on a works in the drawer set that had tubes. The more I thought about it, I'm probably getting "touched in the head." The only tubes in one of these sets were the horizontal output, and the damper, and HV rectifier.

No versions built with a 6CW5 vertical output? I worked on enough Motorolas that had boards and tubes to make me a bit skeptical. It's only been about 30 years since I last saw one.

I just called around to the local TV repair shops today and so far i have yet to find anyone that will even be interested in looking at it, all i hear is can't find parts for it.. I'm going to get a tester/rejuvinater and fix the picture tube, now another symptom i've noticed is the picture now twitching a little (squinting) towards the middle of screen, like it wants to shrink.. I don't know what that would be causing that, maybe bad caps? or could that be the sucktion cup being lose, I noticed i don't hear the hissing sound anymore.

with the set off but plugged in look at the crt heaters.
should be a dim glow.
while watching them turn it on.heaters should brighten.if not the switch cam is busted.common issue.got a ton of these sets back in the day that were given up as bad crt and traded in to beermans.a new tube would look sick at that low of heater voltage too.

CRT heaters go dim when set is off and brighten when powering on...

You're not likely to find a TV shop that will work on this unless you can find an older TV shop that is hungry and does not have a huge workload. Most shops won't touch anything over 10 years old and many won't touch any CRT set. I recently fixed a solid state RCA console stereo for a guy who had been trying to have it fixed for 15 years. All he got from any of the shops was "it's too old, throw it out" or "we can't get parts". It needed a complete electrolytic recap and I had no problem getting the caps. It's just that when a shop is quick to say that they can't get parts, that means they don't want to work on it. On one side of the coin, I can see where they're coming from. Given the high volume of work they do, they don't want to be tied to something that could take a long time to fix properly and they don't want to become married to an old piece of equipment that the owner keeps bringing back every time it develops a new problem, expecting a free repair. From my point of view, I think that if the customer wants it fixed and is willing to pay for it; then, I should do what I can to help them.

Here are pics of the chassis

And a few more

so what was the pro's of the works in a drawer? seems to me a bit crowded.

maybe the idea was you could service a module with out pulling the tv back from the wall and having to remove the back?

for you guys that actually worked on these, how did that work out in the field?

Ok now I'm trying to locate a CRT Tester/Rejuvinator with the right adapters. I'm looking at a couple of Sencore CR70. with the CR70 does anyone know what adapter will work for this set? the Picture tube number is 25ZP22

I don't know about the Sencore; but, if you get a B&K 467, 470, 480, or 490, the correct adapter for that tube is CR3.

I found a Sencore CR70 with all adapters on Ebay, most auctions say AS IS deal, and has not been tested other than powering up. Now how reliable are these things?

Hmmm no tubes.

I remember when we started working on these sets with the modules. For a time, we had a load of new modules and could repair the sets in no time at all. After replacing a few, we figured out what was going bad on the OEM modules, and repaired them ourselves. I never had a case where I went to the customers home, popped out the chassis, and replaced the bad module, collected the $$$ and left. Of course, we weren't a Motorola dealer, and these sets were 6-8 years old when I came along.

I'll bet that a new CRT would make this set shine again. Check out the cam switch first.

Fellow tv collector. What is the EIA number on that CRT? IT should above the type number. If it's 836 or 101 forget it. It's automatically bad. Also clean up that crummy looking anode connector to minimize corona leakage.

EIA is 185

my buddy has one of these quasars.it has a nicely made cabinet but came with one of those funky crts.the orange red,etc.he changed it out with a rebuilt sylvania tube and it really looks good.very nice swap and other than the crts,those quasar sets were pretty well made.i think those crts were in some of the lower level cabinets.the mid 70s were good performers with nice sharp crts.good luck on this

The EIA number for Motorola was 185. I remember reading somewhere that Motorola was setting up there own production line for CRT's. Big mistake. They're the only ones that made the 21GFP22, which was also a lousy tube. Just wait for another CRT before proceeding with other repairs. I'll be well worth the wait. Dave.

So your saying a Rejuvinator will not fix this tube?

Also if i do need to locate another Tube, where would i be able to find one?

I'm sure Video Display Corp. will have a sub for this tube; or, I'm sure most any 23V delta gun CRT from the '70's would work (someone please confirm this). If you could find a '70's era Zenith 23" console that was beat up, you could probably use the CRT out of it. Those Zenith tubes seem to hold up the best. I think most '60's and '70's rectangular 25-P22's and the later 23V tubes will interchange as long as they are of the delta gun type and the mounting is correct.

I'm sure a rejuvenator will help your tube; but, the fix will not be permanent. It could last anywhere between a day and a year or more; but, a good CRT is the only "real" fix.

Yes, I think that is correct about those 23V tubes being compatible. With a little patience one will turn up, either new/used/rebuilt.

I have a few works-in-a-drawer chassis tucked away. Probably some parts missing, but if somebody is ever looking for something...let me know. Eventually they'll get tossed. (it will be about a week before I find a Quasar myself!)

Here's a picture of the set on after cleaning most of the controls and the picture tube connections

I was wrong again! Second time this year. The picture looks very respectable. Fine picture for a tube that was never rejuvenated.

In the pictures the tube looks fine, the color is set to where anymore increased color will cause much more bleeding. If you look at the pictures you can see the colors on the screen bleeding a little. Also the full brightness, in the pictures look fine but in person the tube can be a little brighter.. I'm waiting on my Sencore CR70 Rejuvinator i purchased off ebay.. I hope it helps..

tvcollector, I'm wondering if you are anywhere near me. These sets were just being introduced when I got out of school and joined Motorola, and it would be a kick to see one operating in person again.

Well I'm all the way in South Florida, West Palm Beach to be exact... If your in IL we are far apart... It would be nice if there was one local from me, but i seriously doubt it..

Nothing has been done to this set other than cleaning, so everything is working off original parts even all the caps, transistors etc. may have been serviced in it's life time so a few components may have been replaced at one time.. I don't know how the caps hold up or if needing to be recapped..

Yep, in IL as my location says. Well, good to see that set running, anyway. It has some unique chroma circuits developed by Motorola's Chief Scientist at the time, Norm Parker.

I received my Sencore CR70. I've been testing and did a little bit of restoration. Now when i do the Emissions test it reads good or bad depending on the setting of the cutoff control.. All the way down is bad, in the middle (up/Down) reads into the lower part of good, and all the way up reads in the middle part of good.. I did the auto restore and then the manual 1 restore. I don't see much of a different in the picture.. The shorts test reads good, tracking also reads good.. any input would be appreciated.

I'd love to hear more about those chroma circuits, old_tv_nut... Stories like those, about yesteryear's innovations, always fascinate me.

BTW, that's a great set.... Don't think the c.r.t. looks half bad, to be honest.

The cut off is supposed to be set so the needle is in the cut off range, then you do the emissons test with out moving the cutoff.

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ok that was something i was not doing, i must have missed that part in the manual. I did this test on a 1976 Sanyo set that has a not so bright picture that look to be the green is a little too much, but the test on all three guns passed very good, and the cut off is set in the range with the knob three quarters of the way to get to the cutoff range, which i don't know if that means anything. I'm guessing more than likely there are problems in the circuit on this TV and the Motorola Quasar. I also tried the Motorola Quasar again setting the cut off and all three guns are well into the good range, with the cutoff setting with the knob being pass three quarters of the way..

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Well i hope the tester is working properly, i spent $125 on it and that was the as is price

as long as you can get the cut off in the range you are good to go, regardless of the setting. Sounds like your CRT is fine, I would not recommend any more rejuv attempts to make anything better.

As others have said, a CRT can test very poorly and still produce a watchable pic, no doubt less than perfect, but there are a lot of adjustments that can be set to make a otherwise weak tube look ok.

case in point, a zenith I picked up some time ago, it had a tube brightner on it which I removed, the red gun is weak. However after a few minutes the red picks up so its important to let things warm up before any adjustments.

Second adj drives and screens you can compensate to some degree for diff in guns, tracking may not be great but if you are not fiddling with the brighness then it really does not mater, set it up for a low light level and leave it there. Dont for get to set the focus, again it is optimized for the brightness setting.

bottom line is if one gun is weak It can look ok, not great but ok. But it sounds like your CRT is not bad.

I've tested two other sets.

My 1980 Quasar which when i brought home had a bright red picture. I had adjusted the levels to get a equal grayscale. Now i just did a test on it, the meter in the emissions test went into the good, but than slowly went into about three quarters of the way into the bad. Now i tested each gun and all were equally in the same bad range. I've noticed that when testing 4 others, the meter barley moves (or not at all) when testing each gun. I did a manual restore and all three guns are now in the middle good. I did color tracking and both shorts and all are good. I plugged in the set and was thinking ok the tube was restored a little now, so now when i see the picture the colors will be off and I'll probably have to adjust the red, green and blue on the picture tube circuit board to equal to a rejuvenated tube. Tv came on and the pictured looked the same..


Set two is a portable 1978 Panasonic. Which also has the same problem with the color. This one i tried to adjust the equal the grayscale and can't. But the bright picture looks good on this set, but when i turn down the bright the picture becomes a blue tent. I just now tested the tube and everything is well into the good range.

Now question is? is my CR70 working right? or more than likely on the 70's and 80s model sets the circuits begin faltering most of the time and not the picture tube?

I'd love to hear more about those chroma circuits, old_tv_nut...

Ok -

One of Norm Parker's inventions was the idea of directly demodulating the composite video (containing luma with chroma subcarrier riding on it) into red, green, or blue. Now, you can't do this correctly without some manipulation, because, unlike the RCA dot-seqential system, the NTSC subcarrier has the wrong amplitudes of R-Y, G-Y and B-Y components.

In the NTSC transmitter, B-Y is divided by 2.03 and R-Y is divided by 1.14 before modulating the subcarrier (actually, the equivalent factors are in the formulas for the I and Q signals). Also, the luma signal consists of .3 R + .59G + .11B instead of .33 R + .33 G + .33 B as they are for dot sequential. So, direct demodulation gets the colors wrong. It's necessary to adjust the amount of chroma signal going into each color channel. R-Y needs a boost, B-Y needs an even stronger boost, and there is too much G-Y, (because there's already a lot of G in the luma) so G-Y needs attenuation.

What Moto did in these discrete diode demods is to make the luma be a common-mode signal for three demods, and the chroma a differential mode, with the required amplitude for each. So, all three demods have their required chroma floating up and down on the luma signal. At the output of the demods you now have the sum of luma and a demodulated color difference, that is, each one puts out R, G, or B directly.

When they later went to an IC demod, they used the same principle to put a luma current in common mode into the bottom of each differential mode chroma demod, getting R, G, and B as outputs.

Norm also patented a method to restore the upper I sideband before demodulating on the R-Y, G-Y, and B-Y axes, but this was deemed too complex to put in a set design, especially before ICs.
So, the set ended up with equiband direct R,G,B demods.

By the way, when I say "Norm invented" I mean that he developed the theory and some ideas of implementation, but there were others who worked on various ways to realize the implied functions.

Edit: fixed the B-Y and R-Y factors (had them reversed)

Gees, no one has any input on my last post?

difficult to compare the results of tests on 2 different crt's

for what it is worth, i have never been a fan of crt testers and cleaning/rejuv for any color crt - just too many variables - delta gun/inline/age of tube/ et cetera
it is usually pretty obvious when a color crt is reaching the end of its usefulness - many b/w crt will test poorly and display a very nice pic - same with color crt's

and for what it is worth - i am a believer that if you tested a single crt with five different crt testers you would come up with 5 different sets of readings

the last set of pics. you posted looked good - can you post some screen shots?

My opinion:

1) If the tracking is good, it's good, although the tube may be on the weak side
2) If the tube tests good, it's good, although the tracking (cutoff or G2's) in your set may be misadjusted (causing blue shadows)

Now, if you got a set where one gun could not be adjusted and it tested different from the others, your tester would be telling you that the problem was the tube and not the adjustment. You don't have that in either case you mentioned.

For case (1) you just have a warning that the tube that is giving acceptable tracking now may be on the way out, but there is no need to panic until you see some degradation in the picture.

For case (2) you are seeing that the tube is probably just fine and therefore you should look for your problem in the circuitry.

ok, thanks for the input.. I just wanted to make sure the tester working the way it should.. I'll post more screen pics of the Motorola later, or you wanting other sets pics?