I am new here, just joined today. I have an older philco black & white t.v., I've been trying for about four month's now to get an tube-layout or schematic. I been been told too go too about one-hundred or so sites with no luck, and my two typing fingers in traction a few times. I was woundering if some one on this site might be able too help me?, the t.v. is an philco black & white- console style, chassis=#tv390---mode-#2134---- I managed to get two pictures on my profile page. it has been suggested that the set may be an 1956-56 mdel year. I'm not sure about this,
?, the sereal # might be--0252592,. if I measured the picture tube correctly?, it is "20".


if anybody here can help me?, I would appreceate it very much,


thankyou dawgs

Hi dawgs - welcome to VK. That's a nice looking set. I think it might be from 1955. Check out the pictures from 1955 here: http://www.tvhistory.tv/1950-59-PHILCO.htm

The 4128 and 6110 have the same dual speakers. The only one close to the model # you gave is the 51-T2134 from 1951, but I don't think that's what you have.

Welcome to VK!:D I have one from '54 and looks very similar, '55 looks right for yours. These are great sets, mine is still going strong on almost all original parts. Looking forward to some screen shots!

I dug out my Wallace Telaide for Philco 1952-1956 and found your chassis :banana:

I don't have a scanner big enough to handle these ledger size pages so I took some hi-res pictures. You can download them here: http://www.bobandersen.com/images/schematics/philco/

If you have trouble reading them, let me know and I'll try to do a better job.

This is most likely a 21-inch tube. Look for a label on the tube itself, it should
have a number starting with 21, and ending with P4, or P4A, or P4B. P4
is the type of phosphor (fluorescent screen coating) used in practically all
B&W TV picture tubes. Good luck, it's always good to see a nice old TV kept alive.

The picture in my avatar shows a Canadian built Electrohome TV from 1960,
with a 21-inch, 110-degree deflection picture tube. Regards.

The schematic I pulled out for a TV390 chassis calls for a 21AMP4A picture tube.

The Sams index say the schematic for that set is a 321-11

I don't have one but maybe someone here will.
You can also go to the Sams Web Site and order a PDF scan of it.

http://www.samswebsite.com/photofact/pf_search.asp?MOD=tv390&KIND=LIKE&Search=Search

It's $7.00 and usually takes a few days for them to scan and E-mail it.

You can also probably get an original from John Kendall for $7.99 shipped at http://www.vintage-electronics.com/tubes.htm

:yes: wow! I can't beleave all the help you guys gave me so soon after writting this post. :music: . I gained more information in two days than in months, bandersen has been helpful in having an tube layout posted with the pictures he posted on here, I've try to copy the picture and enlarge it and print it, that's when things get all blury. being very thankful for his help and woundering if anybody here might have an bigger and clearer picute too post so I can get an cleraer view too download and print or just to copy off here too put the tubes back where they belong and get back to the original problem of an over heating speaker output tranformer. a lesson learned on future projects, don't I say don't ever pull all the tubes out of any project unless there is is a tube layout mounted some where on on the project or you make an tube layout as you are pulling the tubes out one at a time.:no:




thanyou again guys- dawgs

Did you try the scan I made ? http://www.bobandersen.com/images/schematics/philco/tv390-chart.bmp

If you still need the Sams, let me know. I have a spare copy that I could mail you.

my pictures

:yes: hi guys, sorry I have'nt been here in a few days. I've been tied-up in multible hospitle :sigh: .,visits frome a gallblader operation gone terribly wrong at surgens hands:nono: . most of thier frigin gadgets out of me now,:banana: ,only one more to go. anyhow, enough of me, I want to thankyou bandersen, for your picture of the philco-390, I did'nt know that when you save it to yours pictures folder, that you can use the thumbwheel of the mouse to make it bigger or smaller. I was able too make it big enough to print off a big picture to find out where and too put all the tubes back in their places, thankyou again bandersen. (and thankyous all that sent information on my page about help for the philco-390 :banana: ) if I might ask an other qwestion, in this t.v.-set, the philco-390-, in the beginning, the audio/output transformer was over heating really good.,. I was woundering, there is an capacitor that runs frome chassia ground to pin 1 of the audio out/put tube 6W6)). let me go back a tiny bit, I took the oppertunity to print off all the tubes in this set,))) and just found out, theres no internal connection on pin 1 or pin 8. o-kay, now I'm confused, I'm thinking the ouver/heating might be the xformer it self or may-be a bad 6W6 out/put tube. please help me again, thankyou again.



dawgs

Hi dawgs,

I hope you're feeling better. Sometimes unused tube pins were used for tie points for components. That might explain your cap on pin 1. I'd replace all the caps in the audio section and check the resistors if you haven't already. Then I'd power the set up and test the voltages - in particular pin 3 & 4 on the 6W6. They should be 255v and 260v respectively. Check the 3.2 ohm speaker coil too and 6W6 if you have a tube tester. Worst case scenario you've got a bad audio xfrmr. Try to eliminate everything else first though. It might me a little tough to track down a replacement but we'll deal with that only if we need to.

Bob

thanx bandersen for the reply, I'm not all that smart when it comes to tube radios or t.v.s, for me, it's sort of hit & miss., more miss then hit. bandersen, may I ask you an couple of more qwuestions?. is it possible to run the chassis part of the set out/side and with the c.r.t., yoke & the h.v. frome the picture tube un-hooked,. and can I use a audio out/put xformer frome a tube radio with the same color code on the input & output of the tube radio xformer leads?.



thanx again to you and every-body on this site.:yes:


dawgs

It's generally a bad idea to run the set without the yoke hooked up. Possibly, if you pulled the horizontal and vertical output tubes it would be OK. Maybe someone else can chime in on this ?

You'll need to make sure the impedance of the audio transformer is the same.

Bob

Moved here by request. You'll probably have better response in this forum.

good evening bandersen and everybody outthere,. just a qwick qwestion first?on this site is there way to type back & forth somthing like the i.c.q.chat?. befor I test the voltages on the 6w6 out/put, I also pulled the 1b3 flyback tube, I guess I figured may/be there would be no high voltage out/put. I did pull the horz. & vertical out/put, tubes already. I'm thinking at this point, I cut the wires too short coming out of the output xfrmr., I'll have to drill out the rivettes frome the chassis too cut the insulation around the wires too soilder new connections incase it was'nt the xfrmr's fault. I'll be back lator.





dawgs

:tears: somehow my new post got moved too the second page here.




dawgs

:tears: somehow my new post got moved too the second page here.




dawgs

Don't worry, new pages are added are more stuff is posted, but it
is always the same thread. Good luck with the TV!

I believe there is a chatroom feature here, but I've never tried it :scratch2:

good morning everybody, I have an qwestion?, I was woundering, if I could substitute a 6e5 with the socket for a 6x6, I'm thinking there would have to be wireing changes, and probly other things like resisters and capacitor changes, but, I'm still woundering if it possible?.




thankyous

dawgs

my pictures

good evening bandersen,:tears:., please tell me how to post pictures on here when I make a new addition and for asking qwestions on the site, I can;t seem too post a picture with my new post on here, it ask's me for something called a u.r.l., ?. you where very helpful, when somehow you went too my profile site and put the pictures here for the G.E. table top radio here that I was asking about the date for?., :no: :tears:., shamefuly, I have put an picture of two different seeing eye tubes on my profile albums again? :tears:,,, these pictures show two different seeing eye tubes, on the left, is the 6e5 x two with the one with the socket attacted to it,, on the right is the 6x6 seeing eye tube out of the rogers magestic radio., what I was woundering was?. can I incorperate the 6e5 tube into the radio,?:no:..
cer--appppp, running into problems hope this post makes it...

than-you again for your help bandersen


got too go dawgs

Hi dawgs,

You have a couple options for pictures.

1. You can attach them to you posts. Scroll down when you are in the advanced editor and you'll see a Manage Attachments button. Click on that and you should get a popup window. Click on one of the Browse... buttons and locate your picture. Then, click the upload button.


2. Use the Insert Image button - you'll need a valid URL. I got this one by right-clicking on your picture and choosing 'Copy Image Location' from the popup menu. Then I pasted it into the Inset Image popup window.

I hope that makes sense.

http://www.videokarma.org/picture.php?albumid=518&pictureid=2957

bandersen,, qwuite sorry, I just can't down load pictures frome my computor,:tears:.,,,, Itried too follow what you had typed on here, and just nothing would work for me.:no:,, just may-be I don't understand the just of computors.,. I tried all of the two sugestions that you told me too do,,, and failed. some/how, I know you will take the pictures frome my profile page and put them on here, :thmbsp:.,, the project I'm working on is,, ( a rojers majestice tube radio ) o-kay, thus far.,, the original capacitators have been by-passed, sorry.,, the capacitators in the power supply,, the unit had a loud hum upon fireing-up- sure bad mistake with/out a leak-down test,, any/how., went to the main power supply capacitators, naturaly, both were shorted,, so! replaced both,, had a really low out/put,,, but! surprisingly, had some weak tunning capaciting, some stations came in very weakly, so, it was a start. replaced some of the tubes,, that I had in-supply,, things got better yet,. :yes:,, on the front of the set, was a circular incased, any/how,, it had a tunning coil, with a resistor and a capacitor, off the main tunner, it had shorts, so, by-passed it, the tunning became louder with a lot more stations, the 6f6-steel tube, I replaced with an 6f6 glass tube,, and things really got better,, a lot more stations started to come in more clearly, so! at this point, I decided too let it rest, meaning.bandersen,,,,,,,,:tears: can you help me one more time and take the pictuers off my profile page and put them on here?????. originalt,, I was woundering about changing the 6x6 in this set too the 6e5,, really got off track,,.


thanx again guys

dawgs

Ok... Try this

1. Go to your profile page, select the picture that you want, expand it to full size, and right click your mouse on the picture.

2. Select copy image location, on the box that appears, and left click on it.

3. From the thread, click on "reply to thread" to open the box to type in your comments.

4. When you want to insert the image, click on the little ikon above the box that looks like a little mountain scene (5th from the right) a window will open asking for a URL.

5. Hit "control" and "v" on your computer to paste the URL that you have copied before, into the window.

http://www.videokarma.org/picture.php?albumid=519&pictureid=2966

6. The image link should now appear in the text of your message, and should show up as a picture when viewed.

Hope this helps,

jr

http://www.videokarma.org/picture.php?albumid=519&pictureid=2963

(couldn't resist doing another one)

sorry, reall got off the philco t.v. subect. I've been experimating with tube replacements, on this t.v.. things do get better with tube replacements, only one tube in the tunner I can't replace. the (6x8) there is no station pick-up,. even though the local t.v. station is only about 3 or 4 blocks frome my house. vert & hoiz. locks are off the wall., can't get under control what so ever,. I have no volume control, because the original out/put xfrmr. burnt out frome voltage over load., if the the sprkr, has no out/put, and the screen is over loaded, I would guess., there is asmall place too start frome,. what I was woundering was?. can you take a out/put xfrmr with only two in/puts red & blue and make it work in the same set with red/blue/yellow inputs?

Are you sure you local TV station is broadcasting NTSC ? There are only a handful of low power NTSC broadcasts left in the country - the rest have converted to digital.

Referring to the scematic I uploaded: http://www.bobandersen.com/images/schematics/philco/tv390-06.JPG
The old yellow wire is actually on the output side and it ties into the volume control. Perhaps for feedback ? I'm not sure about using an xfrmr without that tap.
Maybe a divider with two resistors could be used :dunno:

Perhaps for feedback ? I'm not sure about using an xfrmr without that tap.
Maybe a divider with two resistors could be used

A small trimpot (1K to 5K would do) connected from the speaker secondary of the audio output transformer to ground, the tap feeding the yellow wire connection back to the existing volume control should work. When you have the set on, twiddle the pot to get pleasing amount of feedback. If it oscillates, exchange the output transformer secondary wires hot and ground, to reverse the phasing (or if it's easier, the primary wires' connections plate and B+, but do not do both primary and secondary!).

:scratch2: I'm just rying here to upload some recent pictures of the philco t.v. screen shots.

dawgs


:sigh: :thumbsdn: :tears: :no:





maybe some day I'll understand how.

?:scratch2: still trying


dawgs

don't ask me how I did it, with the pictures<?. anyhow, you were right about the scrambled signals, used too pick-up loacl station withe piece of wire,. some where in the upside down and sideways pictures, I was able to see an picture on the philco set,. with cable hook-up. sound would even be better. one thing at a time.

dawgs.





oh yeh! I'm on page three.

Seeing the screen light up is a good sign. Your picture tube and flyback transformer are not completely dead.

Most TV restorers would now go ahead and replace the electrolytic and paper capacitors, starting with the electrolytics in the power supply. This article explains recapping:

http://antiqueradio.org/recap.htm

If you read the TV articles in this section you'll get a better idea what's involved with making an old TV work again:

http://antiqueradio.org/restoration.htm

It takes more than popping in a couple of fresh tubes or replacing one burned-up part (although those things may be needed, too).

Phil Nelson

phil.,,, there is one big capacitor in this set, it contains the following m/f's 10,40,80,100,. this capacitator is not over heating, or there is no expelling of internal wax or paper stuff. although, I noticed the 6s4 vertical out/put tube glows very brighty, as if the filliment voltage is being over whelmed, is there a posibility that the heater voltage too this tube is too much?,. I'll look at the shcematic diagram for this tube and see if there is any breakdown in the componets connected to the pins of this tube, and do an filliment voltage check,.. is there any more check's that I can do?.

it could open, therefore no heating up. If you have a proper cap tester (value AND leakage at operating voltage) you can check to see if its ok.

Sometimes they check out fine and may last, but if one section is weak you can bet the others are not far behind. Also you can figure even if they check fine now, they could go anytime.

With out a cap tester you should just replace them on principle alone. With a cap tester you can decide if you want to chance it.

Capacitors -- electrolytic or otherwise -- can look perfect on the outside and be junk on the inside. The electrolytics can also fail at any time without warning.

It's kind of a waste of time to try to troubleshoot other things in the TV until those electrolytics have been replaced.

It's like finding a 50-year old car in a barn, filling the gas tank, and trying to speed off on the highway without making sure it has oil in the crankcase and fluid in the transmission. If you seize the pistons or grind the transmission into steel wool, you'll wish you had done the routine maintenance in the first place.

Phil

hi guys, sorry I have'nt been here in an while, miner health issues frome fouled up gallbladder surgery. only one moore part for them to get the heck out-of-my-body :banana: , have'nt done much of anything around :tears: ,lately, don't much feel like doing much, but after the april/01.10, this'll be gone and happy are here again:music: , anyhow guys be sure too have a good one.

dawgs

Ouch! Get better soon.

Cool cat!

John

:tears:, hi everybody, sorry I've not been here latley. but health issues and what-ever have prevented being here. any-how, I have a new project that I just started too work on,. its an R.C.A. victor radio--model-A-22. I've tried to get a shcematic download for it, with little or next to no luck. I went to a site called radiomuseum and got a good picture of it, the site showed part of the shcematic, but when I hit print, it only printed part of the shcematic, suffus too say,there would be a lot of whasted paper and printer ink by the time I got the whole deal printed, so-:sigh:, I was woundering if anybody might know where to download and print the whole shcematic in one shot?, if anybody can help?, I would appreciate it very much thankyou.

by the way I don't know what all the red underlinging is under some of the words?.

thanks, dawgs

:tears:, hi everybody, sorry I've not been here latley. but health issues and what-ever have prevented being here. any-how, I have a new project that I just started too work on,. its an R.C.A. victor radio--model-A-22. I've tried to get a shcematic download for it, with little or next to no luck. I went to a site called radiomuseum and got a good picture of it, the site showed part of the shcematic, but when I hit print, it only printed part of the shcematic, suffus too say,there would be a lot of whasted paper and printer ink by the time I got the whole deal printed, so-:sigh:, I was woundering if anybody might know where to download and print the whole shcematic in one shot?, if anybody can help?, I would appreciate it very much thankyou.

by the way I don't know what all the red underlinging is under some of the words?.

thanks, dawgs

That site only lets you d/l schematics if you are a paid and accepted member. You even have to pass a little test. Otherwise, you only can see a little piece of the schematic.

The red underline means the word is misspelled.

Sent you a PM

Is the Philco TV like this one? This is the best performer I have come across in over 25 years of old TVs. I don't have any specifics on repair since mine has virtually never needed repair. The chassis is light weight and simple. I have had this since 1982 or 3, so I have removed the chassis a time or five for cleaning or minor repair.

Is the Philco TV like this one? This is the best performer I have come across in over 25 years of old TVs. I don't have any specifics on repair since mine has virtually never needed repair. The chassis is light weight and simple. I have had this since 1982 or 3, so I have removed the chassis a time or five for cleaning or minor repair.







this is the philco t.v. I have.

dawgs

That site only lets you d/l schematics if you are a paid and accepted member. You even have to pass a little test. Otherwise, you only can see a little piece of the schematic.

The red underline means the word is misspelled.

Sent you a PM





is there a site too download free shcematics?.

dawgs

Check your PM

:tears: Predictanoob, I can't seem too open the file downloads you gave me. there seems to be something called adobe problems, besides that, I've had three complete computor system crashes, yesterday, I finally got a dell optiplex up & running. :tears:, I lost the file downloads that you sent me, maybe could you send them again, hopefully this computor will let me see the shcematic downloads.

thankyou again, dawgs

good evening everybody, how goe's things?. I have a new project?. your probly thinking?, he always has a new project that he's working on?. thing is, I don't have all the fancey eqwipment to test all of my new toy's that I rescue frome file 13,. anyhow, I'd like too get this one up & running. not sure about all the tubes' and there funtions in this set?.

dawgs

Nice old Transceiver, it probably needs some new filter caps just like an old TV.

I think you would get a better response for help if it was posted in the Antique Radio Forum though, would you like me to move it there?

We also have a Forum for "Hams" you might want to check out before trying to operate that thing, I don't know much at all about Ham Radio but you might need to check on licenses (if any) required to operate it.

good evening everybody, I've done a lot of tube replacements on the ham radio, the resultsare the same., on the usb & the lsbd, things are the same,. when a station comes in, there's a sqweal,. I can tune it in until the sqweal stops, but there is nothing there. am I doing something wrong, as per instrutions, I've put the set into the mode for the up & stating mode,. is there something I'm doing wrong?.

please addvise me thank-you.

dawgs

good evening everybody, I've done a lot of tube replacements on the ham radio, the resultsare the same., on the usb & the lsbd, things are the same,. when a station comes in, there's a sqweal,. I can tune it in until the sqweal stops, but there is nothing there. am I doing something wrong, as per instrutions, I've put the set into the mode for the up & stating mode,. is there something I'm doing wrong?.

please addvise me thank-you.

dawgs

lost the pitures as usual

been away for a while, but, I have something new for yous too figure-out, got it out-of a scrap plie at file-13 again as usually,..

tans

I don't have all the fancey eqwipment to test all of my new toy's that I rescue frome file 13,. anyhow, I'd like too get this one up & running.

Dawgs, you know, you don't really need much of any "fancey eqwipment" when it comes to troubleshooting vintage electronics equipment. The main thing that you need is a working knowledge of how to properly measure voltage, resistance, and current (amperes). After you achieve that, all you really need is a modern digital VOM, and what a lot of techs refer to as an "amp clamp." These things, like most technology, have become so cheap to produce that you can get fairly decent stuff these days for not a lot of money. Your average VOM will have the capability of measuring current (amperes), but current must be measured in SERIES with the part of the circuit to be tested, which boils down to breaking a connection somewhere and connecting the meter probes at the break. Why do this when you can get a clamp type meter and effortlessly check your current. The main thing I want to stress is that ALL meters can be VERY dangerous, if not fatal of improperly used. If you are in doubt ASK someone!

Other than a meter, a tube tester is completely necessary and can amazingly be found used for reasonable prices considering the fact that without one, a person into vintage electronics is about a crippled as he could possibly be. I mean it's the same as any job; certain tools are just necessary, and all of the knowledge in the world is useless without the right tools. That is unless you are of the eccentric variety that can just pay some lucky tech to revamp your toys with a blank check.

So we still are not looking at anything fancy or expensive. However, if you REALLY get deep into the trade or hobby you might decide to tackle alignment jobs and the need for more expensive equipment becomes necessary, ie. signal generators and oscilloscopes. The beauty is that you can have a lot of fun with vintage electronics and hardly ever find the need to touch these items. I do encourage anyone in this hobby to learn the ins and outs of scopes and the alignment of signals. I say this because the garden variety TV and Radio professional is getting older and thinning out. Soon there could be very few people in the country who have the knowledge to do more than swapping tubes, resistors, and capacitors, etc. I myself am going to try to enhance my knowledge of waveforms (more than sine and square waves) AND get the necessary tools for alignments.

Good luck with your projects! :thmbsp:

In regards to your Philco, I had a bad audio output transformer in my '53 Zenith, and I went the same route. I took a very similar transformer out of a derelict RCA tube radio and it worked for me. I took resistance readings on it and made sure it was at least similar in that respect, although I was told that the turns ratio is actually what makes the difference.

As for what ruined my old transformer, I'm pretty sure that it fried due to bad capacitors. If you have any of those old wax capacitors lingering around in your chassis, you might want to evict them to make sure the trouble doesn't return. From your picture, it looks like your set is in decent running condition. Were you having horizontal troubles?