Tube/hybrid/SS?

http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1535056996.html

early solid state set.combos are pretty rare.some even had black matrix crt.decent sets,but the e 45-48 sets were far superior to these.that may be a e 11.grab it if you can.good find

e mail sent waiting for reply...

An unusual combo. I have seen some very nice pics put out by Sylvania, though their crts did not seem to be the longest lived. Tuned up, this could be a very nice "daily driver".

If I had more room I'd be all over a nice console like that . And it is nice especially because sampson says it's a good set and I trust his opinion.

Yep, those Sylvania's put out a heck of a picture when working right. It's just that the CRT's don't last nearly as long as a Zenith. I own one of the last GTE Philco/Sylvania 19" sets with the E32 chassis and it's inline CRT is dying again after being rejuvenated about a year ago. I'd like to find a 19" or 21" Sylvania delta gun CRT table model set.

the 25vamp22 sylvania crt was the best and longest lasting.it came in the hybrid sets(d12 and d16).it has a gray face and will produce a fine picture in any set.the 25vdmp22(very dark face) is the crt most sought after.when introduced in the mid 70s,sylvania always was touted as the best picture i.e.consumer reports,etc.those tubes didn t hold up very long,back in the shop days,3-5 year old sets were coming in with weak crts.many were swapped with zenith tubes and we never had a come back.i have swapped everything in everything and noted results through the years.i personally like the early sylvania 25v for longevity and the 25vdmp22 for the look.philco also had a nice look to them too.rca crts were excellent and they could be jolted over and over through the years to keep them going.the heavy zenith crts were similiar.that combo is a rare piece and i would love to have it.i have a crt,and aset of modules for it.good sets with only solder joints on the yoke and convergence plus power caps swelling up.somethimes the thermistor will let go.not too hard to repair.sylvanias were very big here in the south end of columbus and we saw way too many of them.simple,easy to fix and good crts,they don t make em like that anymore.sylvania gt matics,zenith chromacolors,xl100s were the cream of the crop.downhill ever since.just my opinion folks.

I think that's the COVETED black matrix, black faced 25VDMP22!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd grab it just to harvest that tube, if it were in my area.

Charles

well still waiting to hear back, maybe one of those infamous CL back hole listings...

Sent e mail again.

The seller seems to know little or nothing about electronics. I saw the item description for this console; when I saw the line "works but needs electrical wire replaced," at first I thought the chassis wiring was bad. Why would this set work if the underchassis wiring is crumbling? (If it was, after all, there should have and likely would have been a warning in the description to the effect that the set needs rewiring before using.) Then it dawned on me: the seller probably meant the AC cord is in bad shape and should be replaced. Why don't these people say what they mean rather than writing easily misunderstood descriptions? Even if the seller knows nothing about electricity other than how to change a light bulb, I would think he or she would at least know the difference between a length of wire and a power cord that plugs into the wall socket. Hmmm. :scratch2:

yea I just figured they mean the AC cord. oh well , like I said it may be one of those CL black holes, nothing back yet. They did just post Sunday so maybe just did not check the mail yet.

speaking of CL and black holes, funny I was talking to the folks about the emerson, told them I would be coming over to get it. When I got there and chatted for a bit, they said how they had gotten a few calls but then they dont show up. Guess it works both ways, I don't get it, If I say I will be there I will be there, and I will be there when I say (on time), unless I am in a hospital.

Must be something about the way you are brought up. Maybe this is common.

i took a good look at at this time and it is a black matrix crt.chances are it is not very good,but lets hope you can get this and it has been replaced.i had a vdc rebuild in a set and it was the best ever.video display corporation had a 25vdmp22 on their shelf about 2 years ago.89.00 plus shipping.i should have grabbed it.good luck with this one.keep us posted!

speaking of CL and black holes, funny I was talking to the folks about the emerson, told them I would be coming over to get it. When I got there and chatted for a bit, they said how they had gotten a few calls but then they dont show up. Guess it works both ways, I don't get it, If I say I will be there I will be there, and I will be there when I say (on time), unless I am in a hospital.

Must be something about the way you are brought up. Maybe this is common.

I've been dealing with crap like this for the past 20+ years. I'll have something for sale, someone will call and claim they will be right over to get it, and I'm still waiting. If they're not interested, don't call in the first place or have the courtesy to tell the seller that you're not interested.

I've also had my share of CL sellers who fall off the face of the Earth as well as the local sellers who claim to have an "attic full of radios" who in reality don't have anything. I think some folks just like yanking people around.

Well I KNOW my wife will be happy if they never call back :yes:

That model is covered by Sams 1503 (1975) - E111, E113, E114 (per Sams online index.)

I figured I would give in one more email (2 so far nothing) prob a throw away email acct. oh well no big deal I have plenty to keep me busy, and I really prefer something a little older anyway. Guess for free you can not expect much in the way of courtesy.

25vdmp22 sylvania tube

All SS

The lady had gotten a bunch of no shows early on so had stopped responding (i can understand that).

Anyway got it home in one piece.

I will put it on the CRT checke later.

Or should I just go for it? do you variac SS sets, I have no idea about a powr up procedure. Dont want to smoke anything if possible.

Never really dealt with the SS sets, however, I'd lean towards pluggin it in and lettin 'er rip! Those sets won't have any paper caps, and in the big scheme of things, it isn't very old (only 1975). Probably doesn't use any black beauties, either. I'd just give it a good visual inspection looking for anything obvious. You could run your amp meter with it to make sure it isn't drawing too much current when you first fire it up.

I'd give it the visual once over. If I didn't see anything wrong, I'd fire it up.

Are all the transistors socketed in this one? I had a table top of that age that was very well built.

I will get a pic of the chassis later, looks solid built.

Pics, CRT has a kinda washed out looking center area

power up, tuner working (getting audio) HV is at the anode (30kv) but its like the CRT is completly cut off. very very dim no discernable pic. when you turn it off and on you get a flash of light.

No raster ohter than the same very very dim effect.

Gong to check the pic tube next.

CRT test very good.

So its just being cut off, I guess the next step would be to confirm by checking the voltages at the CRT?

All the filaments light (stay lit, so must have some dumb instant on feature some were).

Gonna need a Sams on this on guys.

There were a couple suspect looking caps on the CRT pin board, a brown dip

.22 uf 100v... not very big either.

Gonna need a lot of help here as I no nothing about trouble shooting TV's with IC in them (at least they are all socketed). If I need replacement IC are they still available?

.22 check ok

can some one tell me what voltages I should be seeing from the K to the G1 and G2 on the guns? with no signal (just raster).

K to G1 -200vdc
K to G2 +500vdc

Seem like -200vdc would certainly cut off the emissons.

going to mess with the brightness control to see if there is any effect on the G1 voltage.

Hmmm brightness control has no effect at all on the K to G1 voltage. I thought it should.

That chassis pic is quite dusty. You cleaned all the dust out of there, right?

One of my roundies had a really dim picture when I first got it... kinda snowy too. Had lots of dust and cleaning it brought everything back to life! :D

i ve had bad triplers cause all kind of strange problems with these sets.once at the shop,we had a sylvania that was similiar.all voltages were correct yet a very dim picture.had to turn out the lights to see anything,dim even then.crt checked good 28-29k at the anode.heater volts were 6+ volts.we were thinking crt.though it checked good,it could be bad?dave jones came by and told us the tripler wasnt defective-it was the wrong one for the set.it sure was!new unit,just the wrong eeg replacement.also service switchs are suspect.pull modules and look ffor breaks especially around the brighness and agc controls.lytics are another problem.your set has a washout in the crt.check plugs for the yoke and convergence.cold joints and check all grounds on the modules.make sure you screw the modules back down.we would get some comebacks because of unusual lines in the picture because of loose modules.these are fairly easy sets to repair.love them!!!that washout on the crt is an issue.good luck with this and keep us in tune as to your progress.i have a module or two for that set.also a rebuilt crt.not a dmp though.

One of the problems with the ss Sylvania I have is that the setup switch barely fits through the hole in the back. When installing that cover it is very easy to miss the hole and pull the switch out of the circuit board. That happened on mine and lead to an intermittent in the video. When it acted up the screen was very dark and had a "negative" look.

Yep all socketed transistors. Brings back memorys, all the red TO220 style. I checked, dont have the sams for thats set, bummer.
You could try wiggling some of the transistors around in the sockets. If I remember one common issue with mine was poor contact in the transistor sockets.

there are 3 main boards

IF
Chroma
deflection


did the wiggle thing on a bunch of transistors
checked the video amp, blanking and some other transistor on the chorma board, all tested good.

cycled the service switch several times.


I may need to pop for a Sams if no one has one here on the boards. I have no idea what to do next short of checking all the little electro caps. I dont have an esr meter so I would need to take them out of circuit for my old heath tester (I assume the ESR meter does not find a shorted or leaky cap anyway). Are those worth the 150-200$ I see them listed for, or am I just better off pulling the cap and testing in my old heath kit tester?

I am assuming I can concentrate on the chroma board since I am pretty sure the vert sweep is working and I have HV so the horz is working, I am getting good sound so I assume the IF board is ok.

My next course of action was to trace the brightness control pot wires the the PCB and the G1 grid wires to try to understand high bias is set on the CRT (that is with out a schematic) for now.

I had an all SS Sylvania a couple of years newer than yours that your chassis picture reminds me of. After some years the tripler tended to arc over but I scraped off the carbon and siliconed up the sharp arcing-prone points on it and it ran for a number of years. I eventually replaced the tripler but an ongoing problem was the two heat sinked transistors seen just to the left of the HV section. They plug into sockets and the connection was sometimes iffy as they draw some current. One of them, the one on the right in the picture, would blow after a few months. Too much heat. I ended up sort of "corrugating" the transistor leads like a bobby pin so they'd make better contact, and putting plenty of heat sink compound on the transistor cases. I also made up and screwed on some aluminum cooling fins to the heat sinks. After that I had little trouble with those parts.

Wish I wasn't STILL stuck out here at anchor on the ship... if that set is from 75, I likely have the Sams for it. If I make it home before you find another, I'll dig it out... but that could be a few days.... :(

hope you get back soon Charlie, I will hold of on buying a sams till I hear back from you.

This beast is HEAVY...

the radio works fine, but the 8 track is missing its belt (I dont have any 8 track any more, lost my old fake alligator skinned 8 track box back in the 70's, had some good ones led zep, jetho tull ,the who, you get the picture).

Popped off the radio bezel to realign the dial scale, greeted with several nice bug cases.... yuk....

The 8-track doesn't work???? Aw man... what a shame!!! ;)

yea I miss that un even speed and constant head alignment :D

Charlie I hope you get in port soon, going no where fast on this beast.

YOu and me both! I was supposed to get off a week ago! We're still anchored in the same spot... 5 miles off Galveston... watching all the foreign flag ships go in and out! As soon as I get home, I will go dig out that Sams and send to you.

On those Sylvanias, I can offer up this: check the brightness limiter control settings. (R294 on my factory schematic, should be near the service switch)

After that, I'd be looking at voltages - Sylvania marked the boards with the voltage - +/- 10 percent should be good.

There is a video driver transistor that the service switch affects - it's Q214 on my schematic. It feeds all of the RGB output amp transistors. The emitter voltage should vary a bit (~ 15V, varies a volt or so) when the service switch is cycled.

It seems your +200V supply is working, and you have boost, so check the 330K 1W resistor off of the screen controls. Often this will open and cause problems. Power down when checking, because one side will have boost (+1100V) on it if it's open.

I'm working without benefit of my service notes, which I can look at tomorrow. This should get you started though.

Cheers,

FYI - the CRT bias control is fed with +200V which feeds through a 220K resistor, then the pot, and finally through a 39K resistor to ground. I'd check the wiper of the bias pot for a varying +30 to +100V. If no voltage, then the bias pot and two resistors should be checked. If this is good, check the 3.9K resistor that feeds from the crt bias pot to the CRT G1.

Hope this helps,

I will get on it Brian, thanks for the pointers.

Charlie I bet you are about ready to swim in...

don't you have some hot TV prospects waiting on your return?

I am waiting for some pics of an alleged (tube type console) I know she prob means CRT but I am hoping.... she did say uses tubes as in plural.

I've got a few phone numbers written down here. ;)

Dave:

I am home now... :banana::grnbounce:banana::grnbounce:banana:


and have Sams 1503-2 in my hands... ready to mail. Send me an address and I'll get this out to you in the morning.

Also, just had a great visit from Reece... he just left a few minutes ago... all the way from Pennsylvania. I always enjoy visits from other VK/AK members!

It was great visiting Charlie and his TV shop in the works, a whole separate building that's going to be a shop of all shops! He has a beautiful location in the middle of a big clearing in the piney woods of East Texas. Thanks, Charlie.

I was just letting Charlie know that deflection circuit current HURTZ....

Big time, major ouch, umpa humpa, yowza....YIKES....GOLLY GEE!!!!!!

dab nab it, I was putzing around near the defection board and literally got zapped I mean fire baby, noise, the whole nine yards....

I have a nice scorched earth mark on my palm. Must respect TV power...

I got zapped once years ago... by a 23" b&w tube... with the set off... and wow that was impressive!!! DID NOT feel good at all!

Got the Sams today (thanks Charlie!) boy is this thing complicated, but at least I have a starting point. I will start by going back to the CRT and checking the voltages now that I know what to look for, then I will check the Blanking/Inverting (that was called out when low or excessive brightness) I have voltage readings for the chroma board so I hope it can be narrowed down. If an IC is bad I guess I will be SOL unless these are common and easy to find, but they look propriatary (video processor) oh boy...

<laughing> Yeah I thought that looked very complex compared to what I'm used to looking at!!! Probably not as bad as you'd think once you've spent a little time with it (i hope).

Your set does not seem to have the interesting control panel as shown in the Sams... perhaps that's a blessing!

I was lucky it has an old fashioned turret tuner, I stay away from push button tuners.

def something wrong, the crt cathodes should be about 175v all are at 220, so I am sure that is why its cut off. The driver transistors have the correct voltages at the base and emitter, but the collectors are also high (the collector connect to the cathodes).

I checked all the voltages from the ps all check fine. I will next get the scope on it and start checking waveforms, starting with the blanking signal.

IF i has an ESR meter I would just shot gun check all the little electros, but my cap tester only checks out of circuit so I would rather narrow it down.

I am going to have to pop for on of those in circuit ESR meters...

Really starting to hate this thing

I spent a couple hours checking voltages on the pins of the transistors and the IC's got a couple odd readings (should be 18v is 1.5v) not that that helps any, I mean ok I have odd voltages, now what. the one voltage is on a pin of an ic that I have no way of knowing what to do next. I guess if I had a replacement IC I would pop it in, but alas not like tubes or transistors.

I did check the resistance checks they were ok. argh, how do you guys deal with this stuff.

My last resort will be to check/replace everyone of the little electro caps on the chroma board, but again who knows could be the dumb IC.

oh and while testing it did make a pop sound, and what little bit of raster that would show up on the very edges of the crt is gone now. I dont know where the pop sound came from, nor do I see any evidence of blown parts. It was louder than just a HV spark. I still get a flash of light when turning the set off, and can hear the HV come up and there is still a faint raster that can only be seen in complete darkness.

Transistor and ics pop and have a very pleasant aroma they release. Are you sure you didnt slip with the probe and touch two of the pins together? Dont give up, im sure you can find that ic somewhere. Inspect closely with a magnifying glass for crack or little holes

dont think it was me, I was not probing at the time of the pop.

I have a pretty good IC source near by (skycraft) will check them next week.

the voltage on the blanker transistor are wrong the base should be .06 its .6 all kinds of odd stuff going on here, again perhaps a wholesale check of the caps is in order. I did find one of the ic's online ECG791 AND ECG809. I think the nte791 and nte809 are the same thing, found them.

I am wondering how common are these, maybe I can find them in some old VCR's ect...

NTE and ECG are the same as far as the numbers go. Chances are excellent that you will be able to get them. Many of them are still made.

looks like mouser has them if my surplus place is out.

I did not realize how easy it was to pop the whole board out, so back in the day did shops just relace the whole board or do componet level repairs?

Now that I have it out I will start checking all the caps.

...so back in the day did shops just relace the whole board or do componet level repairs?


I think it depended on the shop. I asked my friend that same question a few years ago that had a shop in Port Arthur. In his shop, they usually repaired the board instead of replacing. Once they were familiar with the common failures on certain boards, it was cheaper for the customer to replace a cap or transistor instead of buying a whole new board.

He said that was not always the case for the bigger businesses. If they were performing warranty work or had a heavy work load... they'd just change the whole board, and send the old board back to the manufacturer for repairs. The repaired board was sent back out as refurbished.

I checked ALL the caps (unsolder and put on the cap tester for value and leakage, I had one dodgy cap, about the 3rd one I checked, but anyway replaced that one, one I could not test for leakage at 16v (only had 25 as the lowest) so I tested at 25v, the eye would not open all the way so I replaced it any way.

Now I got a picture and raster!

BUT I also have vert size issue, only getting about 1/4 fo the screen to fill in.

So I think I will pull the deflection board next and go thru it.

All of a sudden I am starting to like this set :)

Yep, they are more likeable once they start showing progress. The vertical problem is probably caused by bad caps or a faulty driver or output transistor.

copy that radiotvnut. Have to admit I like the way you can pull the whole board, take it to the bench and check it over.


Charile I bet your right about how the techs in the day would know what to check just because they have a high failure rate. Thing is all the voltage readings and scope readings did not help at all. and I think it all came down to one cap. Needless to say I am going to see where that one was on the schematic just to see what it did.

Well actually if I knew more perhaps the scope would have found it :) I was just having no luck matching up most of the traces to the ones in the sams.

Charile I bet your right about how the techs in the day would know what to check just because they have a high failure rate.

Ay-yep. As my TV-repairman Dad says, "It's repair science, not rocket science" - 90% of repairs are Been-There-Replaced-That-And-Fixed-It-Last-Time-So-I'll-Look-There-Again repairs. It's also nice to have a cheat sheet Sams, all doctored up with repair notes from previous repairs. I've got a Sams 1000 (CTC-38) schematic with at least 30 repairs noted - and not all from the same tech, as Dad used to loan out Sams to other shops. Some Tough Dog repair stuff!

Cheers,

congrats on getting raster!vertical might be solder connections at base of yoke and convergence plugs.very common on sylvanias.also those vertical controls get crunchy.post pics of progress.i really love these sylvanias!

We got picture, we got color, we got full screen :banana:

gonna need some filter caps, looks like I have some 120 hrz hum bars.

Pics soon...

again a couple caps in the vert driver/output.

Funny they were not "that" bad. guess the circuit is kinda sensitive.

1st pic, not a good subject matter, but a start. I was able to get the best color by adj all the screens fully counter clockwise. Will have to read the manual for the correct setup.

I had a little bit of an issue on the deflection board, the little plastic rails that hold the contact pins had failed on one side. I had to manually insert some pins and then glue the remaing good plastic to the chassis. Hopefully I wont have to get into the deflection board again anytime soon.

Hot-digity-dawg! :banana::banana::banana:

it looks like pulling the chassis (to get at the filter caps) is not going to be much of a problem. The tuner seems to plug into the chassis with what looks like an octal socket. So I just have to disconnect the speaker, tuner, degausser. I did not check out the convergence assy but I have to assume its also a plug in deal. I have to admit these sets seem to have been built to be serviced.

On the filter caps I will prob just bone saw them off and install radial caps on top. Much easier with the bone saw over my old approach of un twisting the locks on the cans to stuff them.

One dumb design is the use of a little 5*7 speaker for the audio, not tying into the amp and speaker used by the stereo. Seems like a waste not to use that better sound system. Of course for all practical purposes I should be able to just hook into the aux audio of the dvd or converter and just turn the volume control down on the TV and use the stereo amp for sound.

after this one it will be on to the CTC17 and the Zentith consoles.

Big Thanks to Charlie for coming thru on the sylvania SAMS!!

No problem dude... glad to have been able to contribute to this project! ;) Looks like you're well on your way to success! :yes:

So, the amp doesn't have a selector for TV, huh? That blows. On my CM and Maggie B&W entertainment centers, the TV audio only goes thru the big amp and speakers. On my color CM Roundie Ent Ctr, you have a choice... either use the little rinky-dink speaker thru the TV's audio circuit, or, turn on the big amp and go thru the big speakers.

Just out of curiosity I decided to take a short cut and just bridge a cap across the 35v supply (that is the most filtered one, has a 1500uf on it) and I got this...


Mind you I did not even touch the screen color setups.

amazing on a single cap can do.

Oh and the IF board did not have ANY chassis screws so I stole one from another board and used a single screw to ground that board. Dont know if that had anything to do with the pic improvement.

Rapidly turning into a favorite :)

Damn!!

Dude this thing is working great! shocking (no pun considering the early get my attention shock from the HV) picture with minamal effort.

The other thing I noticed was aside from the few electros that were just bad enough, all the rest of the parts (carbon comp resistors and reg caps) all tested fine. Make me wonder if stuff made today will hold up as well.

Oh I dont recall if I mentioned it early in the thead but when I was loading this brute in the explorer I lost control of it and it fell face 1st on a concreate driveway. All that wood protected the CRT and all the controls, just a mild scuffing of the wood that should sand out nicely.

Try that with a modern set.

that black matrix crt is amazing isnt it?i had an e45 with electronic tuner once.it had some vertical lines on one side that was very distracting.3 slight lines that drove me insane.checked and changed out too many caps.no difference.finally decided to nail it back up and just get used to it.the 3rd module (horizontal board)wasnt screwed down.so i found some screws and tightened her up.bang!no more lines!3 days off and on of work.wrote this condition down in my little notes book.i remember that set very well.my favorite sylvania.i still remember that little repair note.i just for got where i put my repair notes book.

Well after I go thru the filter caps and find screws for all the boards I will need to go thru the screeen setup notes to set the various pots.

I did not check all the caps in the horz part of the deflection board (since it seemed to be working), prob should have.

This always happens, I get a set that I think is a basket case so I dont want to invest a lot of energy in it, then they keep surprizing me by starting to work better and better. My 1st TV was that old B&W maggie console, I swear I kept hoping it would not work so I could just give up and take the horn speakers (the only reason I got it at the time, it was another freebee), then next thing you know its working great.

Not complaining mind you, just an observation of how its been going lately. No tough dogs since that darn hula (bad filament ground on vert sweep board). The way this one turned out is just fine, and a good motivater to get back on those other big consoles.

I sometimes think I really would have enjoyed owning a tv shop back in the 50's-70's just born about 20yrs too late. Geez how great it must have been to actually be able to just order up some parts from a jobber and have them delivered the next day, or get a rebuilt tube or new CRT.

Better late than never, glad I got into this hobby and found the forum

:yes:

Hey, that's awesome Dave ... She looks like a keeper!!:thmbsp:

Oh and the IF board did not have ANY chassis screws so I stole one from another board and used a single screw to ground that board. Dont know if that had anything to do with the pic improvement.



Years back I was fixing up an Akai receiver, and found that missing/loose board mounting screws allowed microprocessor crud into the audio. Was a low level high frequency buzz. I ended up using screws with split ring washer/spring things to apply pressure on the board ground trace-chassis connection, even if the screw is slightly loose. Seems to work well years later.

If the extra filter cap cleaned up the hum, and it wasn't the chassis screw, I'd replace the original cap that is supposed to do that filtering. Before it shorts out.

roger that on the filter cap, that was just a quick fix to see the hum bars go away, I will do a proper fix on all the filter caps (take out of circuit the old ones). The set is growing on me. Next I have to find an 8 track drive belt and some old 8 track tapes :)

Next I have to find an 8 track drive belt and some old 8 track tapes :)

That wont be hard to do.... those are a dime a dozen!! I think I may have one of Barry White laying around here.


WA2ISE: I had one of those 80's Akai's... it developed that same noise you're speaking of. I got rid of it (wasn't playing with electronics at that point) and wish I wouldn't have. I liked that receiver. I see them on ebay now and then.

if you happen across any led zepplin let me know, already married so no need for barry white....

I used to have a boat load of those 8 tracks, I became very proficent at snapping the tape back into the case after it got chewed on and pulled out of case. Also love the way it would cut rignt in the middle of the song,
fade out...kerchunk....fade back, nothing like respecting the artist material.

oh well just another way to mark the period (70's) .

Just be sure to replace the pressure pads and sensing foil. It seems like almost every 8-track I found would break right where the foil is attached.

gotta locate a drive belt 1st. think I will try my local surplus store (skycraft).

Probably easier to find an 8-track belt than most people would think.

My mom has a faux-leather suitcase filled with 70s 8tracks in the garage. it's pretty much the only analog format I never messed with however....

your not missing much :D

did some more viewing, had dragnet on (badge with red background) purity has issues, I need to get a proper degauser ring, but will also check the built in deqausing coil to make sure it is getting activated.

Convergence and pin cusion look good on OTA broadcasting but I will put the dot bar generator on it anyway later.

Still need to tweak the color setup the white is a little blue, but other than that it looks great. Nice bright picture with plenty of sharpness.

Stereo has issues, one channel does not repond to the volume but does to the balance, and tone is wrong as well on that one. I will need to pull the stereo chassis out and go over it.

Its going to be easy to hook up the stereo to the aux and just keep the vc on the tv turned down (thats what I was doing when I noticed the stereo amp issues).

Of course I need to fix the filter caps and button down those boards, but this looks like its going to be a push over (well until that stereo VC issued popped up anyway). My guess is an open VC ground on one channel, hope its a pcb issue and not the VC itself.

there is a very brief surge thru the degausser. I wonder if I could use the built in ring and a varic to directly run the ring for a short peiod of time.

energize it, the ramp down the voltage slowiy, with the variac hooked directly to the unpluged degauser that is.

Haha, yeah I know 8track was mediocre

darn stereo is turning into a tough dog...

one channel is fine, the other is some how bypassing the loudness/tone controls, you have to keep it turned almost all the way down on the balance pot to make it work.

I am 99% sure its not an open pot, but rather a decoupling issue. I had a problem like this a while ago, but I have done my normal checks of the audio decoupling caps and they test find and jumping them did not improve. I may have to did out the scope and see if I can see where the signal is getting in.

Argh... the TV was a push over and the dumb radio turns into a tough dog.

I give for now, def need the scope to see where this darn audio signal is coming from....

found a 33k resistor in the bass tone circuit that had drifted off to over 100k and since the bad side has no attenuation in the tone circuits i will start there.

I am feeding a audio sine wave into the tape input and then tracing with the scope comparing L and R (they are both getting audio feed thru two coupling caps to the same source). I could see a change in amplitude at one point which then I checked with the meter to find the bad resistor. Its kind of a pain since its a pcb with resistor up on end, so you have to measusre from the foil side and look at the top side to see the color bands.

hope this is it...

Ok, here is the deal, the resistor was ok (I was reading the wrong pad, again due to the upward mount of the resistor), but I got it fixed!

Very odd, It seemed like the signal was working upto a resistor, no signal on the side that comes from the pot, but signal on the side that goes to the amp, odd. I disconnect the jumper wire that connect the amp to the output of the loudness pot. no signal now (I have the pot turn all the way down, and signal was still getting amplified). hmmm I check the amp side no signal there either, hmmmm. I resolder the jumper and bingo its working fine now.

I have no idea what was going on, why the amp was getting signal with the loudness turned all the way down, but its ok now (I think, I am going to hook up and try again. very odd).

working perfect, man that was strange...

Now all I have to do is reinstall the stereo. There is no aux button like I thought. I may see if I can install a DPDT and put in a couple RCA inputs so I can choose between the Tape and the inputs of the TV.

Or maybe even get creative and do a DPDT relay that when off goes to the RCA for the TV tuner input and when on goes to the 8 track, then power it off the same power as the TV (maybe a pilot lite take off). That way when you turn on the TV the relay switches off tape and on to TV.

Reinstalled the radio in the cabitnet, hooked up the converter box to the tape in RCA jacks, I was wondering about the levels and if the volume would be right, worked perfect. While messing about with it I tried the turntable, seems pretty cheezy to me in quality. Its gonna need a little help the drive is not that solid, but at least the cart works.

:scratch2: So, after all that, how does the stereo sound???

Reinstalled the radio in the cabitnet, hooked up the converter box to the tape in RCA jacks, I was wondering about the levels and if the volume would be right, worked perfect. While messing about with it I tried the turntable, seems pretty cheezy to me in quality. Its gonna need a little help the drive is not that solid, but at least the cart works.

It probably uses a BSR record changer and by the '70's, they were low quality. BSR went from cheap junk in the '60's to ultra cheap junk in the '70's. I will say that they usually work as intended once all the old grease is cleaned out and new grease applied where needed. Of course, you could always replace it with a better VM or Garrard changer.

actually I think it says Garrard on it, will get a pic later, I dont know jack about turntables.

Sounds pretty decent, and really very sensitive as I was able to get some pretty weak stations very well. I did not remember to clean the darn loundess control its just a touch scratchy, not bad just a bit.

Still very frustrated as to exactly what happened on the stereo.

My best guess is there was a tiny solder blob that I knocked loose near the input of the stereo when I desoldered the jumper that connected the amp to the volume control pad on the pcb. It looks like someone had put in a helper cap at some point, as it was zip tied to the chassis, but it also looked very factory in that it was zipped to a support that seemed to have no other function. I noticed the tiny blob and knocked it off when desolder the jumper.

Who knows maybe its been that way for a long time. You could use it the way it was if you just kept the balance turned almost off on one channel, and did not mind the mis match of tone (the overlly loud channel did not respond to any of the tone controls). I was too tired to mess with trying to figure it out, by then I just wanted it working as I was up till 1am last nite messing with it, even missed the rockford files...

pics of the stereo and TT.


When I was hooking up the TT I noticed the CRT filament glowing dim, must have one of those instant on features. I will have to look into how to disable it. The Stereo has a "main power" which up to now I did not know its function since there was also a stereo power switch as well. Since the TV chassis plugs into an outlet that comes from the stereo, perhaps that will do it, turn off the main power and see if the CRT goes dark when the TV is off.

See one of my earlier posts - Sylvania liked to use one section of the on-off switch for insta-on functions. Later models used a diode matrix to merely drop some of the voltage to the tube when the set was off.

Should be easy to rewire - some had a "vacation" switch on the back of the set that turned off the insta-on feature when it wasn't needed/wanted.

Cheers,

Watched it some more last night (Rockford) geez it has a nice pic, but the cabinet is so B ugly....

I would like to build a custom cabinet and just keep the TV in a much smaller package.

I know its frankenstien but man its tough to look at.

...but the cabinet is so B ugly....

I would like to build a custom cabinet and just keep the TV in a much smaller package.

I know its frankenstien but man its tough to look at.

It's not really ugly... it's just... well let's say it a bit exotic!! :D:D

:yes::D

pulled the chassis, wow that was easy, checked two of the cans, both 100-150uf at 200-250v. Both of them checked fine for value and leakage so I will leave them be. I will pull the 1000-1500 50v can and restuff it. I know one section for sure is bad (that is the one that was causing the hum bars).

There is what looks like a motor start can cap (oval shape with odd connectors). Not sure what it is.

I was toying with the idea of removing and re heat sinking the HOT, what do you guys think?

Lastly I did some work on that deflection board mount rail. It uses pins that insert thru a plastic rail. The CRT board pins were loose, the rail had broken. Its ok as long as you dont pull the board for service but I did not like that idea and since I had the chassis out it seemed like a good idea to deal with it.

I was able to bone saw out some "doner" plastic mounts, I just cut them flush up on the rail 3 in a row. I then cut out and cleand up the rail where the busted mounts were. Next I made up a small wood support that lock in the doner plastic to the existing rails, providing both alignment and glue surface. I seems to be solid now, I am letting the glue set up over night. I will try removing the board to see how well it all works tomorrow (assuming I did not manage to glue the board in place).


I am still leaning toward building a custom box for the tv, I just can stand the plastic faux wood inserts on the speaker. Fake wood, well that pretty much sizes up the whole of the 70's...

I will say one thing even though the cabinet bites, I cant say anything bad about this chassis (well other than the plastic rails failing).

Oh and I watched it some more, seems the purity is getting better, my guess is the auto degausser must be improving it.

You're doing the right thing by replacing every section in that can cap. I can remember twice that I tried to skimp by only replacing the one bad section in a dual section cap. In both cases, the other section opened within a week of replacing the first section. Now, I replace all sections, regardless of condition.

I don't know quite how it works; but, that oval cap is connected to the power transformer in some sort of way, which regulates the voltage. Zenith, RCA, Wells-Gardner, and others used that set-up during the '70's. And, I have seen those caps dead short and trip the CB in several Zenith CCII TV's.

I don't know quite how it works; but, that oval cap is connected to the power transformer in some sort of way, which regulates the voltage. Zenith, RCA, Wells-Gardner, and others used that set-up during the '70's. And, I have seen those caps dead short and trip the CB in several Zenith CCII TV's.

It's called Ferroresonance - the cap is there to help regulate the output voltage over wide voltage swings. Rather than regulate each supply in the CCII, Zenith chose to regulate upstream at the transformer.

Ferroresonant transformers are more common in industrial power supplies.

Cheers,

3.5 uf NP 440v connected across the secondary of the power Xformer.

I assume its ok so will leave it be (or should I check it with my cap tester).
any idea on the relialbity of these?

looks like if it shorted it could take out the xformer if the breaker did not cut out quick enough.

It's called Ferroresonance - the cap is there to help regulate the output voltage over wide voltage swings. Rather than regulate each supply in the CCII, Zenith chose to regulate upstream at the transformer.

Ferroresonant transformers are more common in industrial power supplies.

Cheers,

Cool, I learned something new today. Thanks!:thmbsp:

Tested the value ok, but for leakage not ok. If it switch the cap tester to the electrolytic Selection then the leak test is ok.

I am gong to leave it alone, esp since all the replacements I have found (Dayton) have an origin of China.

Replaced the two LV power supply caps (the two in the one can, 1500uf 50v). I also went thru the IF board and replaced a few out of spec resistors and a few 1uf caps that were just high on the power factor setting of my cap checker (think that is the same as a higher than norma ESR).

the picture is easy the best color of any of my home sets, don't know how but it seems the old CRTs have better color than the later gen CRTs.

I love the fact that you can pop out a whole board by undoing 4 screws. I re enforced the IF board mounting rail it to was cracking up but I was able to save with with out the major surgery requried by the deflection board.

I am leaning toward the custom cabinet, and for sound I will use either a stereo (I have a Fisher 400, Kenwood 44, or an Allied 333) and some nice vintage speakers (wharfedales 60's or KLH 21's). Or a may just do the custom cab (just a nice veneered box) and set it on top of my Magnavox Astro sonic then when watching color I will just turn on the top color set, B&W use the Maggie, but use the astro for stereo sound either way.

I though those oil filled caps were for power factor correction? I know thats what they are used for in electric motors. They never short, only open and the motors run current goes up. They also use them in HID lighting ballasts.
I guess it makes sense though, I remember something I had used a SOLA constant voltage transformer like that.

I think you should leave this one all stock and get going on that beautiful Zenith combo you got. That should be your start show piece.

Indeed that Zenith has a siren song going...

I also hae a Zentih (same chassis) that is just at TV in a very attractive cabinet. that one was playing (only needed a focus rectifier) and a shot of rejuv on the red gun. I will need to go thru it and check some of the paper caps (the HV kind in the hard white tubes) and it needed a slight touch up on convergence, but I could get that one going very quickly, and get it in the house somewhere.

I also have a CTC-17 combo, not as nice a cab or stereo as the zenith.

My biggest problme is space, I have taken over 1/2 the garage, I need to figure out a way to get some of these in the house so I can get my Exp back inside.

I sorta want to go it this order:

1. B&W Maggie, 23" all tube combo, just needs the vert integrater (I think, it has interlace problems).

2. Zentih TV only Color late 60's couple caps and a touch up of the convergence

3. Zenith combo color late 60's tube TV nice SS receiver (CRT tested that is the extent of my work on this one, no power up, have not touched)

4. RCA combo, OK cab (dirty grungy front panel) CTC17 (same status of 3 CRT test only)

5. RCA roundie (this one will need a new cabinet, the old one was infested with termites, LOTSA damage to the wood. The pictrue is near perfect, this one had a shorted vert output and a few minor things but that was the only real problem.

I am prioitizing by the ones that will take the least time to get knocked out, rahter than the ones that interst me the most.

Of course this is busy time of year for me at work so its kinda having to take a bit of a back burner for a while.

Dave wrote: I was toying with the idea of removing and re heat sinking the HOT, what do you guys think?

I would do it. I had a 1979 Sylvania console that liked to eat HOT's so I regooped the heatsink and added some more aluminum fins to it and that worked well.

while working out in the garage (putting tubes in my newly made tube rack which folds open, nice being able ot find a tube now) and watching vampire planet, the circuit breaker kicked out after being on a couple hours. I reset it and it popped again in a few minutes.

OK there is something wrong, so I pulled the backoff and started by feeling the can caps, all fine there not warm at all. Then I felt that non polar motor start cap, VERY hot. The power tranny was just warm so I know it was not radiating heat to it (sits right next to that cap). So I will be replacing that cap soon.

The pictrue on that TV still impresses the heck out of me, I need to get that one indoors and use it more regularly.

if you pull the red wire off that cap,the set will power up with low voltage(shrunken vertical and horizontal)we kept at least 25-30 of those on hands back in the day.very common issue with sylvania.the 25vdmp22 should look very slightly blue with the color off.the factory settings were always that way.that crt is truly amazing.we installed one once in a zenith.the best swap ever.you are very luck to have this set especially a combo.i am happy for you and a little envious!

I was able to order one from Grainger for local pu tomorrow. But the closest value I could get was a 4uf not the 3.5uf called out for. Do you think this will matter?

While I'm no fan of plastic wood either, I've yet to see a homemade cabinet that didn't look like $#!+, and far worse than any plastic wood.

while checking over the chassis I noticed a small 1uf cap bypassing a 1k resistor tied into a transformer that goes to the HV tripler.

I figured might as well check it while its out, the 1uf 50v electro tested a bit leaky (eye would only open about 1/4 of what it should have done). So I replaced. Later when checking it against the schmatic I noticed it was in backwards I TRIPLE checked while doing the replacment, so I know I replaced it the way the orig was done It was mounted on a little term strip on top of the chasis by the HOT. It had the pos going to the chassis which is negative on the power supply. Thats one reason why I triple checked when replacing the orig. I just did not bother to check the schematic at the time.

Anyhoo I took out the new one and went with a big ole NP 1uf 630v (the only voltage I had on hand). Now the polarity will not matter. this is not the 1st cap I found installed backwards. The other one tested fine so I just left it alone.

I got the motor run cap in so will reinstall the chassis tonight for another viewing of 'planet of vampires"... hope this fixes the circuit breaker.

I did check the new cap for leakage, tested fine, no leakage at 450v (eye opened all the way after about 12 seconds, the old one stayed closed well past 30 seconds).

Reinstalled the chassis, got some bad ringing/osc/who knows showing up, I tap the IF board and it goes away. Then the AFC starts acting up, will just go to Black and White and back to color again. I must have upset something that was delicate when moving the chassis around. At least the new AC cap is working fine (not heating up at all).

So....

looks like I will need to pull the chassis out again and maybe even pull the IF board off, clean up the contact pins and reinsert the board. the If RCA connector is a PITA to hook up to the tuner, other than that its a 1 minute pull to get the chassis out.

There is at least on electro cap on the IF AFC circuit, I am pretty sure I checked them all, but I will double check that one any way. Will also make sure the transistors leads are clean and seated.

well AFC caps checked out. I just sprayed on a little contact cleaner on the fingers and will re-install. I am assuming the ringing look on the screen was some kind of IF oscillation. I don't know that, just a guess from what I have read. However tapping the board made it go. I think I will pull and re-insert all the IF transistors (they are all socketed).

all good now, ringing look is gone. At 1st I had no audio at all, poked around and then it came back, not sure what that was about. I check for voltage at the collector of the output transistor, nothing, started poking around tracing it back, then heard some audio and it was ok. My guess is I had a weak connection on the 35v source from the power tranny, that when checking it made the connection.

I set up the gray scale per the directions. I had the screen drives all at about 9:00 (when I 1st got the set it was completely cut off at the crt, so I tried adj the screen drives). Per the directions I had a program on, color/contrast/brightness all fully CCW. Set the service switch to service, then slowly advanced each screen drive one at a time until I could barely see a line, I noted the positon of that drive then bck to CCW and did the next one. After all 3 were done I put them back to the setting that produced the line. the result was a barely visable grey line. The screen setting were much higher than my 9:00 more like 1:00 2:00 and 3:00. I did not touch the other drives, only the screen. the instruction said to adjust them for best B&W. It looked pretty good so I left them alone. I am pretty sure I did not mess with the orig setting on them when I was working on the cutoff problem.

the only diff now is it is harder to over saturate the colors and the brightness control does not turn the brightness down as much as before.

Please comment on grey scale setup this it the 1st time I have attempted it and not sure if I did it right (I did follow the directions but it seem odd that I can't cut off the tube completely).

Dave,

I'm no expert, but this is how I've done it in the past:

1. Turn all 3 screen controls CCW and flip the service switch.
2. Adjust each control upwards until it produces a line, then back it off until the line JUST disappears.
3. Put the service switch back to normal and tweak the screens if needed for good B/W.

The way this was explained to me is that it's easier to bring one line up at a time instead of dealing with all three of them on the screen at the same time. I would think that this method might drive the CRT a little easier, but it couldn't be by much.

Anybody care to comment?

-Jim

yea thats basicly what I did. the hard part was noting where the screen pot was set so I could get back to it (I did the same thing one screen at a time, returning the fully CCW after finding the right setting and gong to the next screen control).
another VKer suggested going ot 50% on the bright and contrast rather than all the way down. I am going to try that tomorrow.

Dave -

You shouldn't have to turn the screen pots back down; if you adjust until the line just disappears then you should be okay.

Re: brightness and contrast - I've always heard to set them at their nominal viewing position and have had good luck with that method.

-Jim

duh, I get it now about just going away...Sometimes I am a little thick headed.

:)

I had a very slight purity issue along the left side of the CRT. I borrowed a buddies degaussing ring (big old school deal) that seems to have got rid it of that.

The only remaining issue is the pic seems a little snowy, sorta like the agc was turne up too much. I adj the agc per the misc adjustments but can't get it all clear. I did clean the tuner still there.

I was wondering if I could have a noisy transistor in the RF/IF.

I was going to try a direct composite signal injection at the video detector TP next to see.

The colors are perfect, best flesh tones I have ever seen.

saw your post.glad you got the adjustments suitable.yes,those fleshtones are amazing,arent they?continued success with the tuner issue.it is a simple one.you will find it.

one thing I did not try is a diff coax cable, I was playing with my predicta getting a lousy pic, then switched to a diff coax and it work perfect.

I recall a cable guy came out to the house one day and made me all new cables for the whole house on all my sets, I should have got him to make me a few extra.

Well I got it cleaned up with some retro o finish, will be moving it into the final resting place soon.

Charile I just realized I still have the Sams on it, I will be making a copy and get it back to you soon, sorry buddy I lost track and did not realize I still had it.

I will get some pics of it once I get it inside.

I did the final dust up of the insides, vacuumed out all the nasties, gave it a shot of bug be gone, so its airing out in the garage. I hope to be watching rockford on it tonight.

whew....

that was fun. Muscling it around the garage and into a back room. Dumb little wheels dont help at all. I think the mounts have fatigued enough that they just don't hold the wheels on the ground. Instead I use "moving men" coasters, great little things.

lost the audio in the move, turns out there is a wire on the IF board/Audio board that is suffering from green wire diease. I touch it and its ok. Too tired to worry with it now, so will just enjoy it for a while and deal with it if I ever have reason to get into the back again.

The large-screen CRT TVs, even so-called portables, aren't easy to move either. I have an RCA CTC185 XL-100 table model, 19", that weighs perhaps 60 pounds if it weighs an ounce; most of the weight is probably the CRT, as almost the entire set is on one PC board. A friend of mine has the 25" version of this set, which probably weighs close to 80-90 pounds.

You were fortunate that your console didn't tip over, if the casters' mountings are coming loose, cracking, or close to doing so. I have my TV, VCR and DVD on a Sauder utility cart with hidden casters; the TV fell off it about a year ago while moving the thing, to get to the cable wiring behind the set. Fortunately, there was no permanent damage, only a bent shadow mask that I was able to reform with a couple of sweeps across the screen with a magnet from a small loudspeaker. I was surprised, however, that the auto degausser didn't correct the color distortion I saw immediately after putting my set back on the stand. Since the TV is ten years old, I thought the degausser may have quit. :no: I'm still not sure what was going on (why the degausser didn't correct the impurity), but I am glad the TV wasn't damaged or destroyed when it hit the floor, face down. I had visions of the CRT cracking and/or imploding. :eek:

Dave, don't get in a hurry for that... in fact... just keep it if you like. I doubt I'll need it, and if I do, I'll just call ya... but I'm sure I won't. :)

I noticed a little defect in the pic today. It looks like ringing in the video signal, a ghost followed by a smaller weaker ghost, etc X 3. It's just enough to make me want to resolve it. Most noticable on text and other hard sharp objects, but it is there on all signals.

I think I read somewhere this is IF oscillations. I did try turning the AFC off and tuning it out no luck.

One other thing is a ever so slight flicker in the brightness, again just barely noticable but its there. If I had to guess I would say about 60hrz. No hum bars or anything else. The color is vivid and rich, better than my more current CRT sets.

I did not replace the filter caps for the B+ (they checked fine for leakage at rated voltage and capacity, power factor was fine). I only replaced the low voltage caps (1500 at 50v IIRC). I also replaced all the little caps on the IF and Chroma and deflection board that tested bad, but I did leave in quite a few that tested fine.

Does this ringing looking ghost sound like an IF osc problem? If so how would be a good way of finding? I was thinking of trying injecting a IF signal from my B&k 1076 at each IF stage, starting from the video dector and working back. I don't know how damping on a IF stage would be accomplished if that is the problem.

Tapping the IF board did it (I forgot that is how I fixed it last time).

the ghosting echo what ever was also accompained by some sync buzz sound. Tapping the board made that go away as well. there is still a single ghost, very faint. I need to try it on a different video source before I got much further.

I guess I need to scrub those fingers on the IF board again, but I also noted a bit of green wire disease. I guess to do it right I should re wire where ever I see that.

some more screen shots after 'tapping" the IF board.

Too bad I could not find any NASCAR on, that makes for some colorful TV

I would expect spurious oscillations to produce a ragged trailing effect, not a regular ghost or ghosts, but maybe it could be. Another possibility for multiple ghosts is a bad ground in the video luma section, especially around the delay line. A tapping fix means a bad connection (solder joint, ground, wiring, plug/socket) anyway.

nice,sharp picture!that sylvania black matrix tube is king.resolder the first module.get your iron good and hot,then redress all grounds on that board.extremely common issue on these sets.takes me back to the day!

A little closer on the IF board issue. Tapping would bring it back but it would not last, as the next time I would turn on the tv it would be back.

this time I lifted the metal shield 1/2 way off the the board top, this has lasted several days and eliminated the remaining ghost (there was still one echo even after tapping).

I was thinking maybe I should scrub that metal where if fit on the IF box.

Maybe even solder a copper braid to connect it to the box.

Grounding issue in the IF circuit. Similar to what I had going on with one of my RCA's. Yes, resloder all grounding lugs.

Tht picture looks excellent! Sweet job Dave!

thats the thing, it has a IF board that fits on fingers, and the grounding is thru pressure points with screws. I cant remember if I cleaned those spots or not.

getting a high rate flicker, no hum bars, just the brightness seems to flicker at what I am guessing would be 60hrz. I thought I would start by scoping the CRT grids to see if anything is going on there.

guess I should also look to see it when I disconnect the IF feed from the tuner.

Found a cross ref for the sylvania part number on the tripler, say a 32-39704-1 crosses to a NTE522.


I may get one just as a spare, incase that loud snap I am hearing has something to do with the doubler.

moyers has them for 24$ I may get on just as a backup.