Yesterday I watched some bits & pieces of a 60s movie called "salt & pepper" starring Sammy Davis Jr. and Peter Lawford (respectively as salt and pepper, har har). Not exactly Oscar material, but at least a chance to see shots of vintage England.

At one point, the bad guys are holding the world hostage with a nuclear missle, and address the nation on "the unused channel 14" (If any Brits care to comment on this?)

There are several identical TVs show, which are obviously green-screened, however the TVs appear to be authentic color sets as there are color badges on them... So who will be the first to ID them?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/Chromacolor2/TVs/SU1HMDAwNTkuanBn-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/Chromacolor2/TVs/SU1HMDAwNjAuanBn.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/Chromacolor2/TVs/SU1HMDAwNjEuanBn-1.jpg

That's a 1967/1968 dual-standard (405 and 625 line) 25-inch Baird model M701. Not sure what they mean by the "Unused channel 14" - The Baird only goes up to channel 13 certainly. :) (Perhaps it could reach the bottom end of "Channel 14" with the set switched to VHF channel 13.) From the angle of the VHF tuning knob, it does look as though the set in the film is switched to 405-lines VHF Channel 13, even though the set appears to be showing a 625-line colour picture (only broadcast on UHF).

It looks like the "Baird Colour" badge has been moved from the bottom of the set by someone. I've never seen one with the badge in that position before. Some models didn't have a cloth speaker grille either, and it looks like this is one of those sets.

[Edit]: Actually, the second picture looks like the set has two "Baird Colour" badges on it.

Well you know how movie magic is... If Sammy Davis Jr and Peter Lawford can kick the asses of elite military officers to save England from its own nuclear warhead, (as they did in the movie), I'm sure just about anything is possible... :banana:

The "unused channel 14" was just a quote that struck me as awkward dialoge in the movie. Obviously correct, as nobody could have seen it anyways!

Thanks for the real-life photos.

EDIT: I just noticed the photo you posted of the knob... The numbers aren't in order??? What's the deal with that? Was that common practice like adding extra "u"s to words like "color"?

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Hi Carmine.

The numbers were not in order so that the 2 channels that we used to have on bands 1 and 3 would tend to fall next door to each other on the dial. For example, from one transmitter in Devon in the South West, we used to have BBC on channel 2 (band 1) and ITV on channel 9 (band 3). Other places in the UK had a similar arrangement with BBC and ITV on their respective band 1 and band 3 channels. (Ignoring regional differences, there were only ever 2 channels on VHF, so we could have the luxury of having the numbers next door to each other.)

As for the added "U" in "Colour", I guess there must be a few English-English and US-English words around like that. I think "Favorite" and "Favourite" is another one.

Thanks Carmine.

Kind regards.

From Mike.

http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwesl/egw/jones/differences.htm

That's an interesting page, although I've never heard of "Bank" being spelt (spelled) "Banque". I think they just made that up... :)

Hi Carmine.

The numbers were not in order so that the 2 channels that we used to have on bands 1 and 3 would tend to fall next door to each other on the dial. For example, from one transmitter in Devon in the South West, we used to have BBC on channel 2 (band 1) and ITV on channel 9 (band 3). Other places in the UK had a similar arrangement with BBC and ITV on their respective band 1 and band 3 channels. (Ignoring regional differences, there were only ever 2 channels on VHF, so we could have the luxury of having the numbers next door to each other.)


<snip>

That's exactly what I was thinking when I saw that, especially Greater London, with BBC (later BBC1) on 1 and Rediffusion (later Thames) on 9.

Not merely convenient, but saves the mechanical tuner from considerable mechanical wear.

As for the unused channel 14. I had not known that B14 had never been used. Some literature of the day did show a channel 14 in the UK bandplan, but others did not.

I was just kidding about the "u" thing... I know there are differences in English/American spelling, but I'm glad people enjoyed the links. Incidentally, I've seen "banque" used on bank (cashiers) checks.

Thanks for the tuning number tutorial. Now I'm curious if the British ever used those UHF channels, and if so, were they little independent stations free of network (ITV or BBC) programing like in the US? The US business model of small-time UHF stations made for a lot of cool/fun programming back in the old days, and lately even in the modern era..

Witness our channel 38, which has taken over where our old channel 62 left off for low-budget movies, Rockford Files, Hawaii 5-0 reruns and technical difficulties. I love it! Its the way I remember UHF tv as a kid.

http://www.michiguide.com/dials/tv/wadl/wadllogo_060607.gif

British channel 14 (which, I now gather, may have never actually been used) was VHF-High, directly above their channel 13 (all of their channels were totally different from those in the USA, the audio was AM, 3.5 mc below the video, channels 1 and 2 were both below our channel 2, and their channels 3, 4 and 5 were all below 70 mc).

Britain never officially used UHF for 405 line transmissions.

Britain did what could be called an "analog transition" in the 1960's, with new 625-line FM audio transmitters entirely on UHF. The first transmitters were for the new BBC 2 service, then later ones for the existing BBC 1 and ITV services in PAL colour, 625 line, again all on UHF. For a decade and a half, BBC 1 and ITV ran two separate networks of TV transmitters - VHF 405 line monochrome for people with existing/old sets, and UHF 625 line colour for newer sets (for a brief time, there were dual-standard sets like the one shown in the aforementioned movie).

If your set was a 405 line and you did not purchase a new TV set by the beginning of 1985, you lost your access to TV. (There was no converter box subsidy scheme. The electronics were more expensive back then, retailers made no effort to keep UHF sets out of the marketplace, and the transition period was much longer, so nearly everyone had a UHF 625 line set by 1984).

As a side note, the Brits may deserve credit for inventing another icon of our digital transition, the virtual channel.

From some point in the 1970's onward, most UK sets, now UHF only, were equipped with four push buttons instead of a dial. The actual tuning of the four presets was only done as a setup, after which one just pressed a button for the desired channel, 1 (BBC 1), 2 (BBC 2), 3 (Local ITV franchisee) or 4 (4, which only arrived in 1982) (Those of us in The States who used a VCR before the mid 1980's may get the idea). So, the viewer of Tyne Tees TV in Newcastle and the bloke watching Thames in London both thought they were simply watching Channel 3, and had no idea one was actually tuned to channel 61, and the other to 23.

Channel B14 is a bit of an enigma. It was certainly never used and the first I heard of it was on the Aurora standards converter. None of my books mention it and I've never seen a set with 14 on the dial. ISTR the topic was discussed some time ago on the UK forum http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/index.php? but no definite conclusion was reached.

Ahh, The Brits...Drive on the wrong side of the road. Conquered well over half the world, & built railways to access virtually every part of it, before there were modern construction devices, yet simple concepts like central heating/AC, proper dental hygene, & automotive electronics completely & utterly flummox them. Expensively keep up a family of pointless wastrels-The Windsors- whose main purpose nowadays is to see how many tabloid newspapers they can sell, & how many tourists they can bring in to tour their old, large, drafty palaces (see above). Taught the world how to properly run everything from a retail establishment to a country, yet of late have seemed to have ceded control of everything previously of value to themselves to soccer hooligans & yobs. Had broadcast television operational-of a sort-as early as 1936, yet were rather embarrassingly late to the color party, mainly because Aunty Beeb Wasn't Amused by "Colour". Curious lot, these Englanders...(grin)

Uhh, you English guys DO realise that I was just being Silly w/that post, doncha ?

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The Comet is another example...If they JUST hadn't put square windows on it...Oh, well...You DO have Airbus, which is "Sorta" British...We developed the transistor, which the Japanese took & ran with, so it ain't just entirely a Brit problem.

The British also invented the angled deck and modern steam catapult used on aircraft carriers that the US Navy has today. I am not sure who invented the aircraft carrier deck that curves upward, but have seen it used on British and Russian ships.

As to the DeHaviland Comet-if it had round windows/openings, slightly thicker skin, and tear stoppers(as the Boeing 707 had), DeHaviland, not Boeing, might be one of the two big aircraft makers today. The Comets were very successful until they began falling apart in mid air.

As to the transistor, I would propose that many more of these are now made in Taiwan than in Japan if the transistors in ICs(another US invention) are included. Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Corporation is the largest IC foundary in the world. Also, there are still plenty made here in the US with IBM, Intel, Freescale, AMD, Samsung, TI, TSMC, and Spansion all having US fabs.

Well, they had to "learn" at some point...And they-the worldwide aircraft engineering community- learned a lot w/the Comet, & B-47...Sure, when a jet crashes nowadays, its a terrible loss of life, but just consider how many thousands/millions of people fly every day...Its STILL safer than crossing a busy street on foot...And until they really do come up w/transporters a la Star Trek, there is no more quicker, efficient was of getting from point "A" to point "B", if "B" is several thousand miles away.

Uhh, you English guys DO realise that I was just being Silly w/that post, doncha ?

I don't know if something was said, and although I did realize you were invoking sarcasm, (as I did when mentioning the extra "u"s) but you do tend to make broad, condemning opinions about fields in which you might not have a huge depth of technical knowledge.

I did cringe in fact when I read your remarks about the English. If there is one parallel I can draw between English and American culture, it is a tendency for both cultures to be rather self-depreciating until the point that all pride has been lost, it becomes a national malaise and then becomes true. I suppose this is the opposite of German arrogance that often goeth before the fall. (Brits, feel free to tell me if I'm off-base)

History lesson on the aforementioned British jet aircraft...

There were two schools of thought with regard to increasing the thrust of jet aircraft in the waning days of WWII. The British (Whittle) design used a better-understood centrifugal-flow compressor. The main drawback was the need for ever-increasing frontal area for increased thrust.

The Germans (von Ohain) used an axial-flow compressor. While it didn't require the increased frontal area, it did require metallurgy skills beyond what was available in the WWII era, and was thus quite fragile. It could also not offer the same resistance to "flame-outs" as the British unit, and many crashed under severe maneuvers (or were shot down by slower, yet more maneuverable piston-engined aircraft).

The upshot of this is that in 2010, English WWII-era jets continue to fly using their original jet engines, while all of the early German jets that are still air-worthy have been retrofitted with modern, American jet engines.

Yet in the minds of most without this technical perspective, it is the WWII-era Germans who are most associated with successful jet engine designs. There is that self-depreciation at work.

And as a more recent example...

As a proving grounds mechanic in 2003, I had the pleasure of off-road testing a fleet of four Mercedes ML 320 SUVs against the then-current Jeep Grand Cherokee. Within two weeks of 24/7 testing, all the Mercedes had burned through their budget of replacement parts (including entire engines) while the Jeeps happily bounced along without a single failure. In the end, the Benz's were restricted to the same torture-testing as the most flexible vehicle in the entire Chrysler line-up, the Sebring Convertible because this was the only route the MBs would cover without suspension and driveline failures.

Yet in the ignorant mind of the mass-media, I continually see the 2011 Jeep GC referred to a "based off the new Mercedes", when in fact the opposite is true. Since this falsehood is considered advantageous to Jeep sales, no one publicly refutes the fact and I have to listen to "experts" (who are simply good at reading newspapers) tell me how the new Jeep owes everything to the Mercedes engineers... :no:

I guess the point is, unless you're skilled in a particular field, it's best to realize that opinions are just that.. Opinions. Please don't take this personally, I intend no harm, only clarification.

...

I trying not to get political, so delete if it's over the line.

As much as Americans like to criticize their own country, they are still very patriotic compared to most other countries. If anything, I would say the US is where Britain was about a half century ago. Still on top, but taking it for granted and on the verge of losing everything if it keeps coasting along.

I couldn't disagree more with the first sentence, yet wholeheartedly agree with the rest. Cynicism, defeatism and self-loathing crept into this country with counterculture in the 60s, and although I'd love to think it will perish with the baby-boomers, they've poisoned the generation that followed too. The only so-called patriotism I see anymore is moronic "Wal-Mart" wear-on-your T-shirt patriotism. Wave a flag, but have zero knowledge of history. Speak loudly and carry a twig. That's the boastful cartoon that passes for patriotism in 2010. These people are mouthing the words, but they have no idea what freedom and self-determination mean.

It is a shame that Great Britain lost its place in the world following WWII (for much the same reasons prior to WWII as we are losing it now). They began to doubt the "morality" of victory in WWI. They began to think any measure of pride was a sin. It took a man like Churchill to remind them of their greatness... Alas it was short-lived. Well at least God-bless the Brits for avoiding the Euro! They gifted the world with things like the Magna Carta and brought civility to much of the world... at least they only gave up the title to their heirs who had already been practicing democracy for almost 200 years.

We (the USA) screwed-up by not backing war-ravaged Great Britain at the Suez canal in 1956. Now look at the middle-east... Nothing but dictators and religious zealots using the poor as human bombs. A return to the stone-age. In my opinion, every middle-east disaster following has its roots here.

Who are we surrendering ours to? Communist nations with a 10-year history of bastardized capitalism that enriches only the wealthy and political ruling class because the individual has no right to free association or speech? "one-world" socialists?

This thread will undoubtedly be locked, but I think deleting it before all of the involved parties can read would be a shame. I'd like the two British gentlemen who posted a reply to my simple comment on a C-grade movie to know that some of us in the USA do appreciate the role of Great Britain in world history.

Perhaps moving it to the off-topic section would be a noble experiment, rather the the usual shut-down. :yes::yes:

Uhh, you English guys DO realise that I was just being Silly w/that post, doncha ?
That's okay. I'm sure most of what you said is true. I just drift along on the sidelines watching and listening without getting involved too much. :)
I'd like the two British gentlemen who posted a reply to my simple comment on a C-grade movie to know that some of us in the USA do appreciate the role of Great Britain in world history.
That's excellent too. Not that it has anything to do with the topic but I have been to the US (California) only once (on a course for work) and absolutely loved it.

Believe it or nutz, I got a LOT of my somewhat irreverent sense of humor-and quite a few Brit references therein-from watching WAY too much Monty Python...

As for the added "U" in "Colour", I guess there must be a few English-English and US-English words around like that.

Think I will spell it "colur", this I'll be equal opportunity wrong in both countries. :D

Think I will spell it "colur", this I'll be equal opportunity wrong in both countries. :D

Many (if not most) of the words ending in "or" in American English end in "our" in British English.

Notable exception: "or" words for nouns formed from verbs for a person or thing that performs the root verb, such as "dictator" and "rotator", same on both sides of the Atlantic.

It's sometimes nice to savour the flavour of the orignal English I favour!

You Americans and brits are lucky not to live here in Italy! we really live in a diyng country riddled by corruption, ignorance and widespread criminalty, it's always been like this but it's getting a lot worse lately, we have no future here!

You Americans and brits are lucky not to live here in Italy! we really live in a diyng country riddled by corruption, ignorance and widespread criminalty, it's always been like this but it's getting a lot worse lately, we have no future here!

Italy IS a contentious mess-But its ALWAYS been a mess, & it prolly always WILL BE a mess...Somehow or another, it seems to work, in spite of itself. The last time Italy had a REALLY strong leader was under Mussolini-I don't think we wanna go back THERE...I think it would prolly be worse if there ever was a dictator come to power. Italians seem to be a lot like us hillbillies...If they can't squabble & fuss, they aren't really happy...

yes, but this time the situation is very serious, we're in the middle of a mass closure of what's left of our manufacturing industry, more and more people are out of work and living on state subsidies (luckily we still have them) but what's worse, the government is trying to deny the evidence and convince everybody that everything's fine and we're already out of the recession

I expect something really serious to happen to our economy and society in the near future if something isn't done RIGHT NOW to prevent it.

By the way, our last domestic TV manufacturer, Mivar, is in the middle of a mass layoff and is probably going bankrupt in the next few months.