My sister and my mom both live in houses in Albuquerque and don't have cable. The broadcast antennas are all on a mountain 5000 ft. above the city in direct line of sight. 60 mi. away to the north is Santa Fe with a station or two. They are both having problems getting DTV stations to tune sometimes, the kind of troubles mentioned in the "DTV Woes Continue" thread. They are not handy people ready to go up on the roof and make major renovations. I know mom has an old TV aerial on the roof pointed right at Sandia Peak and she still has problems. Not sure what sis has.

Is there anything they can use indoors (i.e. easy to plug in) such as a powered antenna or an amplifier, reasonably priced, that actually works? Someone mentioned the Channel Master UHF antenna but it's out of production and I'm not clear whether it even applies to digital. I could *possibly* install a new roof antenna when I visit, but what else can they do?

Help!

Your sister & mom is going to need an outdoor antenna no matter what; The best indoor antenna only has a maximum range of 40 miles...

Mom's got one, it's about 5 feet long with crossbars on it. Doesn't pick up some of the stations very well. Do regular old fashioned antennas work for digital? I assume it's the same frequency just digital instead of analogue. That's why I wondered if an amp or booster would help.

Try www.antennaweb.org

Mom's got one, it's about 5 feet long with crossbars on it. Doesn't pick up some of the stations very well. Do regular old fashioned antennas work for digital? I assume it's the same frequency just digital instead of analogue. That's why I wondered if an amp or booster would help.

Not necessarily...It depends on you local stations...

Some stations went to the UHF TV band when switching to digital transmission and some stayed on the VHF TV band.

In my area all stations "Except" my local PBS station went to the uhf band...The PBS station stayed in its VHF channel (Channel 12 VHF).

So some research would help you get the correct type of antenna.

I have a "rooftop" style antenna that I bought 6 years ago.

It is in my attic instead of the roof as I am in a townhouse, It worked great for analog and it continues to work great for digital too!

I have a four-way splitter/booster on it as I have cable runs to each room in the house.

I have noticed that I can get great reception regardless of the way it is aimed, perhaps digital is less directional than analog :scratch2:

Anyway, I had my doubts but it continues to work great!!

Good luck! :beerchug:

Could someone clairify some of this for me as I have some questions/observations to make.

It seems to me that we've lost stations in the VHF low range (ch's 2-6..below FM) while there's stations in the VHF high range (ch's 7-13) that still seem to exist(?). Am I correct?

Of those stations that have moved into the UHF spectrum, are there dedicated slots that corrospond to where they were before? ie: ch 2 goes to here..ch 4 goes to here..etc.

At least before all of this you were able to know what frequencies that channels were broadcasting on...now it's kinda hard to figure out.

Is there any standardization to any of this changeover?

Knowing this sure would be helpful in determining our antenna requirements too!

Here are some links that will allow you to search the stations in area by zip code..



http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Stations.aspx

There are others and Google is your friend.

These web sites give both the "Digital Channel" and the actual "RF Channel".

All actual "RF Channels"...From channel 2 through channel 13 are VHF and all "RF Channels"
above channel 13 are UHF channels.


Hope this helps.

Of those stations that have moved into the UHF spectrum, are there dedicated slots that corrospond to where they were before? ie: ch 2 goes to here..ch 4 goes to here..etc.



No, no fixed pattern - it had to be determined by the geographic locations of all the stations in order to minimize itnerference after they moved. The links posted above are your best bets.

Since the digital transition, many TV stations have moved from VHF to UHF channels, which means that a UHF antenna is required in order to receive DTV stations now operating above RF channel 13. Many if not most non-technical people do not understand or know this, which is why so many viewers have "lost" some or all of their area's local channels since June 12 this year, and why just about one percent of the homes in the US are still not ready for digital, according to Nielsen's latest surveys. The signals are still there, but unless a proper antenna (VHF for stations on RF channel 2 through 13, UHF for stations on digital channels) is used for over-the-air reception you just won't see the stations you are trying to receive. If, for any reason, you or someone you know does not want or cannot install an outdoor antenna, get cable or satellite.

Also, many viewers are trying to get by with using indoor antennas for DTV. These antennas may work in some signal areas, but don't count on it. I read one post a while back from a person in Chicago who said he was only three miles from the city's TV transmitters, but his DTV reception was awful; he wound up getting cable.

My point is that, even if you live within spitting distance of the TV transmitters in your area, an indoor antenna will not necessarily work well for DTV. As another poster mentioned here, even the finest amplified TV rabbit ears money can buy (think the old Rembrandt indoor antennas of the '50s-'60s with built-in amplifiers, as well as more modern indoor all-channel antennas such as the ones marketed by Terk, et al.) will fail miserably for reception of analog signals beyond about 40 miles, with the digital range being much shorter, perhaps on the order of 30 miles at best if they work at all. Digital television's "all or nothing" nature demands a strong signal to produce any kind of viewable picture, which means using an outdoor OTA antenna, cable, or satellite; again, and I cannot emphasize this point strongly enough, indoor antennas will not work for DTV in many areas, even those areas within the proverbial stone's throw of the local TV transmitters.

If they are in Albuquerque proper, and they have an outdoor aimed at Sandia, something between their antenna and their TV must be wrong. Is the antenna plugged into the "OUT TO TV" jack instead of "RF IN" ? (don't laugh, I've been hooking up antennas for nearly 40 years, and did just that the first time I hooked up my Sansonic !)
Next check the cable or twinlead from the antenna to see that it did not somehow get cut.
Another possibility, as Jeff mentioned, is that their old antenna may be VHF-only.

There is no such thing as an "analog antenna". Any antenna that worked for analog between channels 7 and 51 will work for digital in Albuquerque.

As for indoor antennas: It really depends on where someone lives, what their house is made of, and which room of the house the antenna is in.
When it comes to indoor antennas, the biggest problem with DTV reception is not signal strength, it is multipath (echoes of the signal, associated with ghosting and fading in analog TV). To get DTV to work, you need one signal from a station, not many reflected ones. If your relatives' house is vinyl or wood sided, and they aren't around big buildings, an indoor antenna may work very well. If they are in aluminum or brick, they may need to have the antenna in a big window with a view of Sandia Peak. Anywhere else, and signals pouring in through several walls and windows at once will ruin things.

I've been kinda stuck in old school, so this thread's been informative. It sure seems that some areas got the short end of the deal...and if you're rural only worse.
I have cable but I've always had an outdoor antenna for back up and secondary use.

Gone are the days when you could dx for fun with a deceint antenna and a rotor!

Gotta say, the good old days are still around. I use two home made (DIY) UHF antennas at a weekend camp and the weekend just past they were picking up 100+ miles away without any appreciable problems. One is a 4 bow tie and the other is a double stacked 6 bay (12 total bow ties). At home I use a channel Master 4251 and a Wade VIP-307. You may look into building a copy of the old Hoverman set top UHF that Radio Shack used to sell. There are pictures on one of the threads here.
Don't expect miracles indoors. UHF has a real problem getting a decent signal into a house.
Also, the converter box makes a lot of difference. I use the Insignia and Digital Stream. The Coby and Apex need a great deal more signal to decode. There is a four bay DIY shown on the internet and it's easy to make. It may perform well enough indoors for you. If you put it outside I would recommend painting the center to protect it from the elements. Keep us posted!

My best DTV reception has also been with the Digital Stream models. The added advantage to these is that the do not seem to run hot, so may last longer.

I've been kinda stuck in old school, so this thread's been informative. It sure seems that some areas got the short end of the deal...and if you're rural only worse.
I have cable but I've always had an outdoor antenna for back up and secondary use.

Gone are the days when you could dx for fun with a deceint antenna and a rotor!


NOT gone, just transformed.

DTV DX is harder than analog was, since a DTV signal has to "rule its channel" if it is to be identified at all. Still, I've seen two DTVs by Es and have received tropo of UHF DTV as far as 400 miles (no snow, no ghosting, and -instant- ID of the DX in most cases).

Analog DX has entered a brave new world. Many times, skip would come in from the SSW, and WBRZ from Baton Rouge would be fighting it out with local WJBK Detroit (both channel 2). This July, I had Es to the SSW. WBRZ and WJBK are gone, so I saw YNFA302 instead - from Managua, Nicaragua.

And be careful when buying, the Magnavox and Philco converter boxes are on a death spree. I've seen many go out already.

Lots of good info here folks, keep it coming!

I need to talk to the fam out there and see what channels they are having problems with. I know a couple things right off the bat: 1) I don't think Mom's roof antenna is a UHF type, looks more like VHF to me. Could be why they *never* got very good UHF signals. And there are channels up there in the UHF in Albq., lots of them. 2) The proverbial wood framed stucco house in Albuquerque is going to cause big problems for indoor antennas especially with UHF. Why? The stucco is embedded with chicken wire. The whole house is a Faraday cage!

Can you take a photo of the outdoor antenna and post it up? Is the outdoor antenna on a rotor? And what is your mother's & sister's ZIP code?

Oops, missed the last reply by site12a back in Sept!

I was just out there and on mom's house in particular, she is having problems with channels 5 and 19. A UHF antenna would help with 19 but 5 sometimes tiles or loses signal randomly, so you can't really watch a show some days. She is in 87111, way up in the NE heights looking at Sandia. Sister is in 87105, halfway to downtown.

[Edit: I did not get a pic of mom's roof antenna, but it's a standard looking VHF type, as I said above it's about 5 ft. long with the axis pointing toward the transmitters, and several crossbars along it. No rotor.

I am curious what I could put up there for a UHF, and can I parallel that in with the VHF or do I have to run separate cable into the house?]

best place to start with antenna questions is antennaweb:

http://www.antennaweb.org/

Oops, missed the last reply by site12a back in Sept!

I was just out there and on mom's house in particular, she is having problems with channels 5 and 19. A UHF antenna would help with 19 but 5 sometimes tiles or loses signal randomly, so you can't really watch a show some days. She is in 87111, way up in the NE heights looking at Sandia. Sister is in 87105, halfway to downtown.

[Edit: I did not get a pic of mom's roof antenna, but it's a standard looking VHF type, as I said above it's about 5 ft. long with the axis pointing toward the transmitters, and several crossbars along it. No rotor.

I am curious what I could put up there for a UHF, and can I parallel that in with the VHF or do I have to run separate cable into the house?]

A UHF antenna may help with both since channel 5 may not be on VHF channel 5 anymore. With digital it doesn't matter what frequency it is on the channel information is sent as data. Here our channel 7 is actually transmitted on what was UHF channel 46. Even though the channel id is 7.1, 7.2 and 7.3 they are not on VHF channel 7 anymore. Channel 7 somewhere else may be on a totally different channel.

Holy cow, OK, I'll go to antennaweb and check it out. I looked at it initially but there was something about sending me emails - I assume selling stuff - so I didn't put in my info, but I'll take another look.

Well, they have some helpful info on there. Channels 5 and 19 that we're having trouble with are actually both broadcast in UHF. It recommends a "yellow" antenna which is the simplest and smallest UHF type. I would like to find out what one looks like but this appears to be a generic site and doesn't actually show any products.

Anyone have advice on whether a UHF ant. can be mounted with the VHF on the roof and hooked up in parallel into the same cable?

[EDIT: If anyone has suggestions for a DIY antenna site, do tell.]

Antennaweb is a joint project of the National Association of Broadcasters and the Consumer Electronics Association - not a sales site. They have been upgrading their prediction software - it models topography very well, but there is actually little available that takes into account local clutter (buildings, etc). If you want to just enter your zip code, you can do that, but obviously it will be less accurate than an address. You do not need to enter email, phone, or etc. unless you really want to be contacted.

You will get a list of all possibly receivable stations at your address, their directions, and the recommended antenna type needed for them.

Well, they have some helpful info on there. Channels 5 and 19 that we're having trouble with are actually both broadcast in UHF. It recommends a "yellow" antenna which is the simplest and smallest UHF type. I would like to find out what one looks like but this appears to be a generic site and doesn't actually show any products.

Anyone have advice on whether a UHF ant. can be mounted with the VHF on the roof and hooked up in parallel into the same cable?

[EDIT: If anyone has suggestions for a DIY antenna site, do tell.]

You cannot just connect the cables from two antennas together. However, a VHF and UHF connected backwards to a UHF/VHF splitter to make a combiner may work OK. That's what I have in my attic.

To see what some look like, go to:
http://www.winegard.com/offair/index.php
and click on any of the antenna models, which are color coded to match the antennaweb color coding.