I just accidentally found a thread using Google with posts today where a new member has or had a Westinghouse with the 22EP22 rectangular crt. I can only access it through Google's cache of the page, a search on either Audiokarma or Videokarma for 22EP22 doesn't find it either. Here's the cached version:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=clnk&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2F74.125.95.132%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dcach e%3Al9aveZZLq44J%3Awww.audiokarma.org%2Fforums%2Fs howthread.php%253Fp%253D3016381%2B22ep22%2Bcrt%26c d%3D1%26hl%3Den%26ct%3Dclnk%26gl%3Dus%26client%3Df irefox-a&ei=IJ6xStqiBobIMZTi-fIN&usg=AFQjCNFI6YJDLxZ22l6n5Idiv1hoBHGslQ

It's the 6th post down by jr_tech http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/member.php?u=71340

Years ago, I had a conversation with an engineer on that project. He said that they were really concerned that the camera would get pointed into the sun and ruined as the Astronauts were hopping all over the lunar surface. Apparently the engineers at Westinghouse were holding there breath the whole time! He gave me a nice treasure from his old Westinghouse days... an early color TV (about 1956) with a Westinghouse-made rectangular 22EP22 crt. He said that these tubes were processed for a very long time to achieve a high vacuum, an expensive process. Later versions of this set had a cheaper mass-produced round crt.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN0313.jpg (48.3 KB, 11 views)
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=168529&d=1252448393
He's apparently posted a picture of it (link above), but it's not accessible, nor is the link to the thread itself
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audiokarma.org%2Fforums%2Fsho wthread.php%3Fp%3D3016381&ei=IJ6xStqiBobIMZTi-fIN&usg=AFQjCNEZ8hMoZyB5sLTQzBcPwV-Z4egRiQ.

I just get the error message below, and my regular AK/VK password doesn't work.

Your administrator has required a password to access this forum. Please enter this password now.
Note: This requires cookies!

More strangeness, the beginning of this thread can be found on Videokarma, but it cuts off before his post:
http://videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=241387&highlight=Greetings%2C+moon+fans!

Anyhow, I'm sure there are some here (myself included), that see this as the Holy Grail of early color TV. Other than a few ads and articles, I've never seen one of these in the flesh.

Hopefully the administrators of AK/VK can free this up and give the light of day to one of the most exciting finds here in a long time.

Jim

That was a bummer, my first TV related posts on Audiokarma were wiped out in the transition to Videokarma. :tears:

Here it is again, I will try to get more pictures in the next day or so, I am just getting back into the hobby, and my "TV room" is still piled high with boxes that I need to clear out.

I just took another picture, which includes a Motorola with a 21" round tube, so the difference is quite visible.

jr

:eek:I'm in love.........

Finally the infamous Westinghouse...man! Its nicer than i thought it was going to be. Can we see pictures of the inside? You might want to contact the Early Television Museum so they can at least document this set for their records. This one is beyond rare!
-Tony

Is that set operational?? I'd love to see it in action, or better yet, in person!:D

oh my...

I too would love a screen shot. I caution anybody against over optimism about its performance though. Charles (KX-250) has posted to the effect that the one he owned wasn't an easy set to watch. From what I understand you can't get the convergence quite right no matter what you do. Aside from that it's a series-strung set with a hot chassis--as in 120V worth of hot, the chassis is connected directly the AC line.

None of that is to say it isn't about the coolest thing to turn up here all year! I might be pleasantly surprised by it's performance; I know I'd love to see it working as much as anybody.

JR TECH: OMG! You also have a 21CT2 in BLONDE! Holy Smokes! John Folsom and I each have one in the mahogany finish, and neither one of ours look near as good as your blonde set! Does the 21CT2 work? Can you also put up some photos of the Moto?

OMG! That Westy is THE RAREST OF THE RARE

I am aware of only one other example of this rare model.

IMHO this set ranks as more valuable than the rarest of preware sets, because to the best of my knowledge, that rare color crt was never used in any other set.

That set is truely the most collectable of all color tv's

PLease show us photos of other sets in your collection.

I hope you have it insured for a lot of bucks!

No offense, but that is a pretty plain set. Any of us could easily walk by one at a flea market or house sale and not realize what it was. At least now I know what to look for; this is the first picture of one I've ever seen. I thought CBS-Hytron built the CRT, but it was Westinghouse-made?

Thanks for the comments! Wow !

I got a few more pictures this afternoon...Right now NONE of my sets can be assumed to be in working condition, as I have been away from the hobby for several years, so no screenshots yet!

As you can see from the shot of the corner of the tube, it is not impressively rectangular, but it ain't round either!

According to Peter A. Keller "The Cathode-Ray Tube Technology, History, and Applications":

"The first commercially available rectangular color tube was the 22-inch, all-glass 22EP22 (fig 6.22) developed by Westinghouse Electric Company in their Elmira, New York, plant (1956) A 24-hour-long pump cycle combined with a high-temperature bake (400 degrees) resulted in a very good vacuum and long life. The 22EP22 was used in a television receiver manufactured by Westinghouse, but economics doomed it after only a year of limited production."

As I understand it, when the switch was made to a commercial 21" round tube, the 22" sets were sold off cheap to Westinghouse employees (100-200$) with the understanding that replacement crts would not be available! This one got hauled to Oregon, when the Westinghouse engineer changed jobs... I got it when he moved again in the mid 80s. Free! :D

jr

Interesting that they put the controls on top, even though the chassis is on the bottom.

Don't fret about not having it working yet. Sounds like there may be plenty of armchair quarterbacks willing to kibitz & offer advice whenever you find time to work on it :)

Phil Nelson

Oh my! Very cool... You want to sell it? J/K I never knew there was even a rectangular color CRT before the roundie!

Thank you for the pictures, I've wanted to see one of these for ages, talk about a Holy Grail of Color TV Collecting!

The tube doesn't appear to be radically different from the 21" roundies other than the screen which looks like Westinghouse kind of just squished into a semi rectangle.

Is the Gun the same as the 21 inch and do you know if yours is good?
At least there's a fighting chance with a glass tube.

And yes, you could easily walk right by it and assume it was a B&W set!
There doesn't appear to be anything like a "Color" logo or a Tri Color flag to mark it.

Thanks for the pics! It looks like there are some newer yellow tubular caps in there. Have you repaired or ever seen this one work? Sorry for all the questions but I've never actually seen one of these on the inside before. Very unique even though it isn't flashy. I like that, some go too far, like they do today with "HD" this and "HD" that on every logo and mentioned every two seconds by news reporters. Being the first and only rectangular tube at the time, it's interesting that they didn't make a bigger deal of it.

Right now, the tube is a big unknown. I do not intend to just plug it into a tube checker, because if it is gassy, the heaters will likely blow. I suspect that I will bring up the heater voltage slowly and monitor for excessive heater current... if I get up to 6.3V with normal current and a nice orange-red glow, I will then use a crt checker.

The pinout and voltages of the crt look about the same as a 21AXP22 so I suspect that the guns are very similar.

One thing that has me worried is that the tube does NOT appear to be fritted together... So how was the front panel attached to the funnel?. Indeed, quoting Peter Keller again:
"Corning Glass Works developed the frit-seal process which was first introduced in 1958 for the all-glass 21CY22 color picture tube." I hope that they did not use the same process that was used on the 15GP22s. :thumbsdn:

When I obtained the set, it produced a fair picture, somewhat dim, and convergence was always a problem. The previous owner left the side control cover off, and said that he often fiddled with the convergence, which changed during operation. Yikes! Hot chassis and all!

jr

Many of us have been waiting for this day! I can recall some false hopes when folks found Westinghouse sets that looked identical to this one but were B/W. Very strange that they didn't dress it up. Westinghouse seems to have always been an also-ran; perhaps had their promotional abilities been a little better they would have sold more. I wonder if they ever had Betty Furness selling these on TV?

Very strange that they didn't dress it up. Westinghouse seems to have always been an also-ran; perhaps had their promotional abilities been a little better they would have sold more. I wonder if they ever had Betty Furness selling these on TV?

But remember, at the time most color sets were very plain, my early RCA sets don't have *any* sort of color logo, although it is pretty obvious that they are not "normal monochrome" sets.

That is why I think the Motorola sets were so great... the gorgeous 19" just shouted COLOR! and even my 21" has that nice 3 color treatment of the tuning knob.

jr

Many of us have been waiting for this day! I can recall some false hopes when folks found Westinghouse sets that looked identical to this one but were B/W. Very strange that they didn't dress it up. Westinghouse seems to have always been an also-ran; perhaps had their promotional abilities been a little better they would have sold more. I wonder if they ever had Betty Furness selling these on TV?

My dad, his brother, and one of their sisters worked for Westinghouse transformer division. They were extremely loyal to Westinghouse products. Surprisingly they never owned a Westinghouse TV. I was never sure what to make of that.

John

Glad to see that one of these sets survives in
outstanding cosmetic condition. Check out the Westinghouse 22" color receiver pictured on my site from a Dec. 1956 Magazine ad.

-Steve D.

Steve, your link says HTTP 403 (forbidden) when I click on it :(

Steve, your link says HTTP 403 (forbidden) when I click on it :(

Thanks Charlie, I edited my previous post. The link isn't working. You can go to my site and scroll down to the Westinghouse ad.

-Steve D.

Okay... thanks :)

...

At first sight, I would've never guessed that was a color television.:scratch2:

There were two 22 inch tubes, one made by CBS and one by Westinghouse. I have had two Westinghouse and one CBS sets reported to me, but these are the first pictures I've seen.

http://www.earlytelevision.org/22_inch_color_tubes.html

That was a bummer, my first TV related posts on Audiokarma were wiped out in the transition to Videokarma. :tears:

Here it is again, I will try to get more pictures in the next day or so, I am just getting back into the hobby, and my "TV room" is still piled high with boxes that I need to clear out.

I just took another picture, which includes a Motorola with a 21" round tube, so the difference is quite visible.

jr

My next-door neighbor in my old neighborhood had a Sears Silvertone b&w console TV that looked almost exactly like the one being discussed here. However, I can't imagine Westinghouse making TVs for Sears and Roebuck in the 1950s; most "Sears" branded color sets from the '50s-'60s were RCA CTC-12 through CTC-15 clones.

Glad to see that one of these sets survives in
outstanding cosmetic condition. Check out the Westinghouse 22" color receiver pictured on my site from a Dec. 1956 Magazine ad.

-Steve D.

Steve D., on your site you show the same model number (22K161) for both the table model and full console. Does this number come from the same ad as the pictures? I notice that the model numbers on jr's set are different (H22T155/H22TU155).

Steve McVoy, did the individuals who reported sets to you give any indication of model number or cabinet type?

jr, many thanks for the wonderful photos - this is certainly among the rarest of the rare! Did you happen to notice if the tube map includes a model number, and if so does it match the one on the model number label?

Thanks again for the comments!

A few answers:

No, the tube layout does not show the model number, my Sams Photofact (#357-1) indicates that it is for "Models H-22T155 H-22T156, H222T157A (Ch.V-2293-11,-31)". Underneath the tube layout chart written on the cabinet is "6-56" ... cabinet mfg date?

Yes, some of the caps look newer... there are also several tubes with date codes in the mid 70s so it appears that some service work was performed before I got the set.

Interesting about the CBS-Hytron 22" crt... I have passed along this info to Peter Keller. Has anybody seen one?

jr

JR, I sent you a PM about getting your contact information for our database. Did you get it?

At first sight, I would've never guessed that was a color television.:scratch2:

I wonder if collectors have simply overlooked this set when they have seen it? Couple of things to watch for...

1. The crt has the blueish color that is often observed on early color tubes... compare to the color of the 17" RCA shown to the right of the Westinghouse in the second post on this thread.

2. The set is quite large, and deep for the size of the picture. Not counting the bump in the back for the crt, it is an almost perfect 26" cube!

jr

I think the set is still somewhat unique looking (even if it were actually a b&w set). Seeing it in person might be different than seeing it in a photo. I believe a collector would see it, and then say, "Hmmm... there's something peculiar about this set," and then likely investigate a little closer... and once they realized what it actually is, they'd do that Fred G. Sanford routine of having "the big one"! :D

Hell, I had the big one and all I saw was the picture of it! :D

Fauxpaw: I was contacted by email by two of the collectors. They promised photos, but have yet to send them, despite several reminders. One claims to have a NIB 22 inch CBS CRT too. Until I see photos, I don't know if the sets actually exist.

One of the Westinghouse sets is owned by a very private collector who hasn't released any photos.

We have a CBS tube at the museum:

http://www.earlytelevision.org/color_crts.html

We have a CBS tube at the museum:

http://www.earlytelevision.org/color_crts.html

Yikes! so the CBS tube used a glass funnel with a metal flange and a panel with a metal flange, so that the flanges could be welded together after the shadow mask/ phosphor exposure deposition sequence was performed?

jr

Yep, kinda like the 15GP22 or 19VP22.

Jr, I have the Westinghouse service manual for the set (alas, no set to go with it!). I would be happy to make you a copy. Sen me an email with your address if you like.

[email protected]

Yep, kinda like the 15GP22 or 19VP22.
Slaps forehead...oops, I forgot those had glass funnels! but this welding must have been more difficult because of the shape ?

jr

...I saw one of those CRTs on ebay a few years ago for something like $300. I think it ended with no bids. I wonder if it would be possible to track it down.

That tube was won by a collector in or near Chicago. It has good emission on all three guns.

Pete

Steve D., on your site you show the same model number (22K161) for both the table model and full console. Does this number come from the same ad as the pictures? I notice that the model numbers on jr's set are different (H22T155/H22TU155).

fauxpaw,

I did make a "fauxpaw" in the model # for the table model. It is 22T156. I have corrected my site. Both model #'s are listed in the ad. The console model #22K161 is pictured in a small insert in the corner. The ad is a large format two page spread. jr_tech says his set's mfg. date is 6-56. This ad is from Dec. 56. Perhaps Westinghouse changed the model #'s somewhere along the line. Although the SAMS photofact usually was released sometime after the receiver was made available to the public. So, it is a mystery. John Folsom, does your service manual give any model #'s for these 22" receivers?

-Steve D.

Again, Thanks for all the encouragement and comments.

I took only two pictures today, and did the "ramp-up" heater test that I described above... full 6.3V and everything looks normal. Then I slowly brought up the voltage to the TV (horiz output tube plate connections pulled since it is a series set).

Observations:
Tubes light up, horiz osc runs, vert osc runs and appears to sync when channel is selected, sound on ch 5 ok (we still have a low power VHF analog), no hum, and no purple glow in crt (although with the horiz output disconnected, B+ boost is not being generated).

Any recommendations for the next step?... Plug on the plate caps and let 'er rip? or more tests to be careful?

Side control panel.... picture1
Picture of the crt in Peter Kellers book*...Picture2
*see reference above... copied WITH permission of the author.

Wow... sounds like we will soon be witnessing the re-birth of an early Westinghouse rectangular color set!

Jr: Do you remember how long it's been since the last time this set was turned on?

...

Steve D and Jr Tech: My Westinghouse service manual gives no insights into model numbers, but does give a complete "service school". I recently brought a 15" unrestored Admiral color set up very slowly on a viriac and was able to get color bars on the screen. You might give this a try on the Westighouse, just to see if you can get any HV and raster. But I would advise you to go ahead and re-cap the set, including electrolytics. This will give you the maximum reliability.

These to items are posted on behalf of Steve Dichter, who has issues posting photos to the VK website.

VIsit his website at:

http://community-2.webtv.net/stevetek/StevesCT100/

:-)

From the way that ad sounds, Jr should have a "trouble-free" experience in turning on his set! :D

Sure is funny what companies would say to make their product sound better than someone else's!

My thanks to John Folsom for posting my pix of the captions containing the model numbers from the Westinghouse ad. Still a mystery about the different model #s between the SAMS listing and the ad text.

-Steve D.

My thanks to John Folsom for posting my pix of the captions containing the model numbers from the Westinghouse ad. Still a mystery about the different model #s between the SAMS listing and the ad text.

-Steve D.

I suspect that the T in the model number stands for table, and the K for console (sic). Per jr's earlier post, the Photofact only references T models so perhaps no console models were ever built. If we had additional information on the other surviving sets (assuming they're real), that might help to answer this question.

I wonder if the TU model number listed on jr's label refers to a version that includes a UHF tuner?

I recently brought a 15" unrestored Admiral color set up very slowly on a viriac and was able to get color bars on the screen. You might give this a try on the Westighouse, just to see if you can get any HV and raster. But I would advise you to go ahead and re-cap the set, including electrolytics. This will give you the maximum reliability.

That is the way that I have done it in the past. I had not heard of this process of bringing up the voltage slowly with the horiz output tubes disconnected, until I read some posts in this forum. Can somebody explain the theory behind this? My *guess* is that the flyback could possibly be cooked if the horiz osc does not start before current flows through the horiz output tubes. Is this the concern?

jr

I wonder if the TU model number listed on jr's label refers to a version that includes a UHF tuner?

The tube layout chart shows an alternate UHF tuner that does not appear to be covered in Photofact 357-12 (5-57). Mine does not have the UHF tuner and the stamped model number (barely visible in the photo that I posted) does not have the "U" although there is a space at that position: "H22T 155D". So the 155 is mahogany and the 156 is Blonde and the 161 never existed?

jr

I suspect that the T in the model number stands for table, and the K for console (sic). Per jr's earlier post, the Photofact only references T models so perhaps no console models were ever built. If we had additional information on the other surviving sets (assuming they're real), that might help to answer this question.

I wonder if the TU model number listed on jr's label refers to a version that includes a UHF tuner?
Jr's post came in as I was typing mine. Photofact 357-12 was published almost a year after jr's set was mfg. So more unanswered questions on model #'s. Cabinet styles never produced? Here's my post as submitted:
I agree that a "U" designation in a model # usually indicates the optional UHF tuner. The rest of a model # may include cabinet type ie: table, console ect. and perhaps a finish such as Mahogany or Limed-Oak ect. The SAMS numbers does include several numbers for the 22" such as those ending in 155A/156A/157A this may include the console as well as the table model.
The console model was selected for the cover photo featuring various 1956-57 color sets (2nd from top) In the Radio & Television News special Color Television issue in 1957. The cover is posted on my site. A dealer catalog featuring these 22" models would answer a lot of these questions. A fellow VK collector may have this catalog stashed somewhere. Check that carton of catalogs in the basement, garage or back closet. We all have them.

-Steve D.

Jr's post came in as I was typing mine. Photofact 357-12 was published almost a year after jr's set was mfg. So more unanswered questions on model #'s. Cabinet styles never produced? Here's my post as submitted:
I agree that a "U" designation in a model # usually indicates the optional UHF tuner. The rest of a model # may include cabinet type ie: table, console ect. and perhaps a finish such as Mahogany or Limed-Oak ect. The SAMS numbers does include several numbers for the 22" such as those ending in 155A/156A/157A this may include the console as well as the table model.
The console model was selected for the cover photo featuring various 1956-57 color sets (2nd from top) In the Radio & Television News special Color Television issue in 1957. The cover is posted on my site. A dealer catalog featuring these 22" models would answer a lot of these questions. A fellow VK collector may have this catalog stashed somewhere. Check that carton of catalogs in the basement, garage or back closet. We all have them.

-Steve D.

John Folsom, does your service manual say anything about model numbers and the differences between them?

The Westinghouse service data in Riders Vol. 21 give this list for models:
H22T155
H22TU155
H22T157A
(mahogany)
H22T156
H22TU156
(limed oak)

Chassis
V-2293 or V-2294

In addition, in the parts list there is a half page of assorted knobs, escutcheon and trim pieces assigned to the various cabinet types and models. It seems like the "A" version has some kind of pushbutton on/off, and a window in the escutcheon (tuning indication?). The "U" definitely indicates UHF tuning.

There is no mention of a console version. Riders Vol 21 is copyright 1957.

...

If that was my set and the CRT was good and in the series filament string, I would try to put in a separate CRT filament transformer. Can't hurt.

Well this ain't much... but it is light, :yes: It appears that when we removed the tube for the photo session, we got the yoke off 120 degrees :(

Since Peter Kellers crt book was published in 1991, I suspect that the set has not been turned on since then or I *might* have noticed this error.

Again, thanks all for the good input!


"I would try to put in a separate CRT filament transformer"

It actually has a 6.3V winding on the autotransformer that is used for the B+... Strange, but inexpensive way to go!

jr

Wow, that is fantastic! I must confess a considerable amount of green envy! Now you need to give it a good re-cap, and see were you are. Please post some photos of it all tweaked up and working well when the time comes.

I agree with Andy, I cannot see any real advantage to bringing a set up on a variac with the HOT removed, as opposed to doing the same thing with the HOT in place.

Amazing! It's great that it works.

John

WOW Jr That leaves me without words. I am speachless! What a rare moment in our hobby. So very thankful to you for sharing all of this with us.

WOW Jr That leaves me without words. I am speachless! What a rare moment in our hobby. So very thankful to you for sharing all of this with us.

I second that!:thmbsp: I'll also add to John Folsom's comment by saying I think we're all a bit green with jealousy on this one, what an awesome sight. :thmbsp::D:banana:

Wow... that is such a cool rare set and it looks like a sure thing that it will work good when it is finished. Can't wait to see the pics. of it working and thanks for shareing it.:thmbsp:

Amazing! Many thanks for sharing! Some folks might see that picture and shrug their shoulders or laugh, but not the bunch of guys who hang out here! Wow!

That is mighty incredible to actually see.

Some folks might see that picture and shrug their shoulders or laugh,

I did a bit of that myself ! :) It can only get better... I hope!

Thanks for all the good comments !!

One of the corner mount spacers for the CRT was missing, so I spent some time today fabricating a replacement. I want the CRT to be mounted nice and solid before I try to rotate the yoke to its proper position.

jr

Wow Jr! That's great! You certainly have most of it licked... a good CRT, light on the screen, and video!

Amazing! Some folks might see that picture and shrug their shoulders or laugh, but not the bunch of guys who hang out here! Wow!

My father often laughs and shakes his head when I get excited about bringing a set back to life. I could only imagine his comments if he were to realize several of us from all over the country and rest of the world were tuning in to witness the re-birth of this one particular "old television" :yes:

Hey jr.

I'm really delighted that you are taking such care with this rare gem. In going back over the previous posts, I noticed, in your first posted pix. on the left, what appears to be two small holes drilled into the lower right portion of the mask. Are these actual holes or just some dirt trapped behind the safety glass? If they are holes, pehaps a logo, indicating "COLOR" was inserted there?

attachment.php?attachmentid=164778&d=1253162046
http://www.videokarma.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=164778&d=1253162046

Just pure speculation on my part.

-Steve D.

jr's photos are now at our site:

http://www.earlytelevision.org/westinghouse_h22t155.html

Thanks again folks!

Got the yoke turned without breaking the neck off or anything* :) and took another picture... looks a little better, but I think that no color info is getting to the tube, the color differences seen are likely differences in drive levels/tracking of the 3 guns. I have made no adjustments other than turn the yoke to its proper position.

Steve D... the "holes" are just little dust bunnies. I remember seeing several of the 21" round tube (cyp?) versions of this set, and they did not have a color logo either.

*did that once to a 21AXP22... had to change my shorts!

jr

She's getting close!

Jr, that is just fantastic.

when i get up in the morning.i cant wait to check this site,just to see what someone has found or working on.this is an amazing find!the rarest of the rare?i often heard of this set but never actually saw one.i am awestruck and dumbfounded to say the least.

Yeah, I thought these bad boys were all prototypes, & never were actually sold..

:ntwrthy:

WOW what can I say ...a set that is almost mythical appears out of the mists .... astounding and great work JR .... good luck with getting it back into peak form!!!

That is the coolest set I have ever seen. The convergence does not look that bad either.
Wow.
Ed

The emission looks good to me! That is so cool to see a rectangular CRT before the round CRT! Too wierd still!

stunning to see a set like that - working to boot!

well done, sir. :ntwrthy:

I don't believe it!Finding a set like that is impossible-AND IT PLAYS,TOO!!!

This has me inspired to get the one I used to own working... It's in the hands of another Los Angeles collector, and he's 50/50 on letting it be worked on. I checked the CRT, and it's OK. I Variac'd it up, but the selenium rectifiers were acting up, and I never went further with it. I didn't realize they were so desirable at the time. Heck; I should probably have kept it, and I won't upset myself nor anyone else by blabbing what small price I sold it for... I'll talk with the owner, and see how he feels about it now.

Charles

This has me inspired to get the one I used to own working... It's in the hands of another Los Angeles collector,
Charles

Wow! Another one! :banana:
My guess is that there are more out there that have been overlooked, because they look so ordinary, and are not clearly identified as "color".

Any vendor recommendations for NOS tubes, Caps?

jr

Radio Daze & Justradios.com are both good for caps. The latter can be slow to ship because they are in Canada.

Lots of places to get tubes; you might want to post an ad here with any needs. I personally have lots of TV tubes, more than I'll ever need.

(lots as in many thousand)

Wow! Another one! :banana:
My guess is that there are more out there that have been overlooked, because they look so ordinary, and are not clearly identified as "color".

Any vendor recommendations for NOS tubes, Caps?

jr

This one is the mahogany table model; in very nice shape but missing the back cover. I got it in the late 80s, and sold it to the other collector in the mid 90s. I've mentioned the set on AK, but it's been a long time. I think that with yours, the total known may be 3.

Charles

Yesterday, I was looking thru the manual that came with my "Dandy-Dapter" crt tester adapter. There was an extra sheet in there that appeared to be an updated list dated 1983. I was surprised to see there was actually a listing for the 22EP22 tube. It showed the pin-out being the same as the roundie tubes.

Edit: Got a scan of the page. I'm surprised they didn't just do away with the 22ep22 listing being that it was such a big flop from the beginning.

It showed the pin-out being the same as the roundie tubes. It's the same base, and I believe the same gun.

Charles

This thread is just amazing.

I have to wonder why, with all the black & white rectangular sets out there, that the rectangular color set didn't take off. You would think the roundie really, should never have happend.

What a cool piece of rare history. I have to say it is probably up there with the CT100 or the CBS sets. Just too cool

The rectangular tubes never worked right - convergence was the problem.

The rectangular tubes never worked right - convergence was the problem.

Gee. What if....

The tube developers probably could have licked the convergence problems with the early rectangular CRTs, but by 1956/7 it was apparent that on one was going to make any money on Color TV for some time to come, so no one wanted invest. The 21" round tubes were big enough and good enough. It took the better part of a decade for color TV sales to grow to the point that manufactures were willing to invest in substantial R&D on CRTS.

...

Yesterday, I was looking thru the manual that came with my "Dandy-Dapter" crt tester adapter. There was an extra sheet in there that appeared to be an updated list dated 1983. I was surprised to see there was actually a listing for the 22EP22 tube. It showed the pin-out being the same as the roundie tubes.

Edit: Got a scan of the page. I'm surprised they didn't just do away with the 22ep22 listing being that it was such a big flop from the beginning.

It is interesting that the more famous 15GP22 didn't "make the cut".

It is interesting that the more famous 15GP22 didn't "make the cut".

The sheet I posted was only a loose supplement page in the back of the dandy-dapter book. There is a listing for the 15GP22 AND 15HP22 in the main list of the book. You'll notice that sheet is missing many of the roundie numbers... they are in the main part of the book as well.

... I have to wonder why, with all the black & white rectangular sets out there, that the rectangular color set didn't take off. You would think the roundie really, should never have happend.

Well, consider that the R&D that went into B/W CRTs naturally began with round screens, narrow deflection angle, and big necks. Not until the electronics were fully mature and reliable did R&D advance into developing rectangular, wider deflection tubes with smaller necks. The same evolutionary sequence was naturally followed in developing color CRTs. Advancing from roundies to rectangular/ wider deflection/ flatter screen tubes brought on new challenges with convergence and particularly the pincushion effect. Pincushioning becomes problematic with wider deflection angles and flatter screens- http://www.tpub.com/content/navyict/14120/141200340.htm which requires dedicated correction circuitry. Thus the big-necked, narrow deflection roundies had to serve sorta as "proof of concept" in color just as had been the case with B/W.
Bill(oc)

Since no one here has ever seen one of these sets fully working, it will be interesting to see what the convergence is really like. It might not be as bad as the rumors suggest. Everyone thought projection TVs from the 80s were not capable of good convergence, but once they were properly set up, they were excellent.

I remember seeing the set that I have operating in the orig. owners home several years before he moved and gave it to me. Warmed up, it did not look half bad, but that took at least 1/2 hour or more. He told me that he fiddled with the convergence adjustments quite a bit, as they seemed to "drift". I never saw the set with the side cover on the convergence panel, as he left it off for convenience of adjustment. In fact, I thought that the panel was missing, but he kept it inside the set next to the HV cage. At that time my CT 100 still had vacuum in the crt, and as I recall the Westinghouse had better convergence than I could obtain with it.

jr

Update:
Ok, I found a screenshot of my Ct 100 in better days, I could never get very good convergence on it... the Westinghouse was BETTER than this! Can anybody figure what the program was, and approx when it was aired?

The program is "Fat Albert" cartoon. Filmed between 1972 and 1982.

Hey - Hey - Hey!!!

It is interesting that the more famous 15GP22 didn't "make the cut".

Also, I bet the 19VP22 isn't in there either. That, and the 15G, are very different from the 21(xx)P22 roundies, whereas the 22EP22 and the Toshiba 13" big-neck tubes have the same socket & guns as the regular roundies.

Charles

Actually, go back and look at that supplement page again. The 19vp is listed in the middle towards the top. I didn't even think to look for it till you mentioned it.

I know that convergence is a sore point on my CTC-5. I can get it halfway decent with a lot of work but then the next time I turn it on it looks terrible again. That can be blamed on the DC circuit they used, from what I've read. I've thought about running the set through a variac so I could keep at least that voltage constant. Not sure if that would be good enough. Trouble is that my Iso-Tap is too small for the current draw of this set. Not sure what the rating of my old variac is.