I often see advertisements on TV for movies and programs/series available on DVD. However, these ads almost always include the phrase "On Blu-ray and DVD." What is the difference, if there is one, between Blu-ray discs and standard DVDs? I thought Blu-ray discs are DVDs, differing only in the manner in which they are (for want of a better word) recorded.

Thanks in advance.

see if reading this (http://www.blu-ray.com/info/) and this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc) helps your understanding of it.

the short version is: on blu ray 6x more (than dvd) information is recorded resulting in more detail in the image.

BluRay requires a format specific decoding. BluRay discs have a DVD layer , but have have a much larger storage capacity , allowing for much more detailed information-both audio and video. Kind of similar to hiding analog info on DAT , if that had ever been done.

Blu Ray is a high definition format, not needed if you are using a standard def 4:3 TV but it makes a very noticeable difference if you are using a display capable of showing the full 1080 resolution of a Blu Disc.

Also Blu Ray players will play DVD's but DVD players won't play Blu Ray discs.

I would personally recommend that if you are at all a movie fan or a concert fan, that you seriously consider looking at a Blu-ray player. This format is far and away superior to DVD in every aspect of VIDEO and AUDIO output.

Some people, erroneously beleive, that upscaled DVD is close to Blu-ray. Nothing could be further from the truth. Whether viewed in SD or Upscaled SD (what a buzzword), it cannot rival the visual and aural superiority of the Blu-ray format.

Granted, one needs to own the proper componants to maximize this experience, but make no mistake....Blu-ray is better!

John

I often wonder if Blue Ray makes a crappy movie plot better because it has so much more picture and sound definition :scratch2:

jeffhs, you do realize that to properly use a blu ray player you must have a hi definition tv set, right?
this can triple, quadruple the cost of the blu ray experience.

if you want a surround sound system, that can also add significantly to the price of the system.

the good news is you can rent blu ray movies and concerts from places like netflix for very little money.
i pay an average of $1.50 per. not bad!

I often wonder if Blue Ray makes a crappy movie plot better because it has so much more picture and sound definition :scratch2:
a LOT of people think just that--check out some of the blu ray threads at the avs forum.
some of those folks quit watching dvds just cuz they don't look as good as blu ray. that's regardless of the content of the movie itself!

they really do want just the pretty picture. (and sound.)

I often wonder if Blue Ray makes a crappy movie plot better because it has so much more picture and sound definition :scratch2:

First of all, it's Blu-ray NOT Blue Ray. Secondly, whether 8mm, VHS, Beta, DVD or Blu-ray...a crappy movie is still a crappy movie. So to answer your question, no...Blu-ray doesn't have the ability to make a DUD into a STUD.

jeffhs, you do realize that to properly use a blu ray player you must have a hi definition tv set, right?
this can triple, quadruple the cost of the blu ray experience.

if you want a surround sound system, that can also add significantly to the price of the system.

the good news is you can rent blu ray movies and concerts from places like netflix for very little money.
i pay an average of $1.50 per. not bad!

You don't need surround sound. A decent 2-channel rig will blow your mind, as long as you have the receiver to decode the HD codecs.

a LOT of people think just that--check out some of the blu ray threads at the avs forum.
some of those folks quit watching dvds just cuz they don't look as good as blu ray. that's regardless of the content of the movie itself!

they really do want just the pretty picture. (and sound.)

The people that stopped watching DVD because of Blu-ray are idiots. They're the "snobs" that truly only care about the quality of the presentation and not the content of what is being presented.

All I'm saying is this...if you like movies or concerts and you have the ability (gear) to watch it as intended...DVD just doesn't measure up.

John

First of all, it's Blu-ray NOT Blue Ray. Secondly, whether 8mm, VHS, Beta, DVD or Blu-ray...a crappy movie is still a crappy movie. So to answer your question, no...Blu-ray doesn't have the ability to make a DUD into a STUD.

You don't need surround sound. A decent 2-channel rig will blow your mind, as long as you have the receiver to decode the HD codecs.

The people that stopped watching DVD because of Blu-ray are idiots. They're the "snobs" that truly only care about the quality of the presentation and not the content of what is being presented.

All I'm saying is this...if you like movies or concerts and you have the ability (gear) to watch it as intended...DVD just doesn't measure up.
John
re surround sound. i believe i used the word 'want', not 'needs'.
no one 'needs' any of this stuff.

i use an onkyo hd-805 hd dvd player for dvds (and hd dvds). it has the reon hqv video processor which allows my ~1500 count dvd collection look great thru my hd projector/84" screen.
used to have a 108" screen and they still looked great. not quite hd of course, but d**n good!
blu ray chores are handled by the samsuck bdp1400.

a good dvd player can make a big difference.

Blu-ray requires a format specific decoding. Blu-ray discs have a DVD layer , but have have a much larger storage capacity , allowing for much more detailed information-both audio and video. Kind of similar to hiding analog info on DAT , if that had ever been done.
The Blu-ray format has shown this ability in lab tests, but no retail Blu-ray discs have any compatibility with a regular DVD player. The competing but now-discontinued HD DVD format did have many discs available that had a regular DVD-format version of the movie on the other side of the disc; those discs could be played in a standard DVD player on that side. Of course, the picture quality was the same as any other DVD, and not in high definition.

As others have said, if you really enjoy movies (as distinctly opposed to TV-watching, in my opinion), a Blu-ray player and a good-sized HDTV display is a wonderful system to experience. The selection of movies is still much smaller than with the DVD format (which itself took years to catch up with VHS, of course), but many classic movies such as Casablanca, Gone With The Wind, and 2001 are available now or will be in the next couple of months. The picture quality of these movies will usually look far better than many people have ever seen them. I am waiting for North By Northwest, which comes out in November for its 50th anniversary. The majority of releases, though, are still recent movies (the same as was true with DVDs and VHS tapes in their early years as well).

I often wonder if Blu-Ray makes a crappy movie plot better because it has so much more picture and sound definition
No, it doesn't. I tried it. :D

best thing that bluray brings us in pal land is the 24fps mode - so that we no longer get stuck with sped up stuff like we do in the crappy pal dvd versions.

000

One major difference with Bu-Ray is that is has much more strict copy protection than DVD. Forget about modifying your player to eliminate Macrovision. Even worse than that (for us) is that there is a plan to completely disable all analog video outputs (including composite, S-video, and component) by 2013. This will obviously make it completely impossible to use Blu-Ray with our vintage TVs, or even older HDTVs without breaking the law.

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/06/hollywood-drives-us-

heh, and even Hopllywood admits that the Blu ray system has already been compromised, and that you can make a high quality copy of a blu ray movie by simply setting up a camcorder in front of a suitable TV.

So really it makes all their copy protection schemes useless, and they're doing this just to fuck us over.

It's cash for Clunkers, only there's no cash, and you'll be forced to upgrade...

One major difference with Bu-Ray is that is has much more strict copy protection than DVD. Forget about modifying your player to eliminate Macrovision. Even worse than that (for us) is that there is a plan to completely disable all analog video outputs (including composite, S-video, and component) by 2013. This will obviously make it completely impossible to use Blu-Ray with our vintage TVs, or even older HDTVs without breaking the law.

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/06/hollywood-drives-us-


Would standard DVD players, which of course are digital by design, connected to ordinary analog TVs via RF modulators be affected as well by this law, or would they be exempt from it? :scratch2:

Seems to me as if the government is trying to stamp out analog television every way they can think of, first by requiring cable operators to move analog cable channels (including broadcast channels) to digital tiers, and now this. I hate to think what may be next; probably outlawing the use of analog TVs by 2013 or some other arbitrarily selected date. This would force everyone in the US to buy a flat-panel if they wanted to continue watching television, and frankly, I don't think many folks would stand for that. There are too many perfectly good analog televisions (millions) still in use in the US; any law banning them probably wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in August of being passed. There is already a ban on the sale within the US of new-in-box analog televisions with NTSC tuners, so any law aimed at banning the use of existing sets would make little or no sense.

I spoke with a Time Warner Cable CSR (customer service representative) over the phone recently and was told that they are already transmitting all their services (including broadcast channels) over the cable digitally. (I believe it; the picture quality is, IMHO, incredible, even clearer than I can ever remember when the cable service was strictly analog, and I've had cable service from TW and its predecessors since 1982.)

Moreover, Time-Warner Cable is prepared to (and does) accomodate their subscribers with analog TVs by converting by whatever means, when necessary, the digital ATSC signals from the headend to NTSC analog. I have basic (what I call "bare-bones basic") cable service from TW, which connects more or less directly to my TV (no converter box is used or required with this level of service; channels may be selected directly at the television, using its own remote) and carries only the local Cleveland/Akron/Canton area TV stations, plus one C-SPAN channel and WGN America. For all other types of alternate programming (except for CNN and Fox News Channel, not to mention ESPN, which obviously are not carried on basic service and which I do not care for anyway), I use my VCR and DVD player. The beauty of watching VHS tapes and DVDs is that the viewer can pick and choose at any time what he or she wishes to watch (by renting or purchasing DVDs), as opposed to broadcast and cable; the programming over the latter is always at the discretion of the networks. If you like what a given cable or broadcast network shows, that's great, but if you don't, you have absolutely no recourse but to change channels or turn off the set.

Is this just for the blu-ray or standard DVD players as well? I'm not at all interested in the blu-ray, but I've built up a large collection of DVDs over the past few years and want to be able to continue playing them. If I have to stock up on spare players I want to start early.

I never would have made the jump from VHS tape to DVD had there not been so much more available on DVD I never could get on VHS. But at least the older VHS machines were somewhat repairable.

Would standard DVD players, which of course are digital by design, connected to ordinary analog TVs via RF modulators be affected as well by this law, or would they be exempt from it? :scratch2:

Seems to me as if the government is trying to stamp out analog television every way they can think of, first by requiring cable operators to move analog cable channels (including broadcast channels) to digital tiers, and now this. I hate to think what may be next; probably outlawing the use of analog TVs by 2013 or some other arbitrarily selected date. This would force everyone in the US to buy a flat-panel if they wanted to continue watching television, and frankly, I don't think many folks would stand for that. There are too many perfectly good analog televisions (millions) still in use in the US; any law banning them probably wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in August of being passed. There is already a ban on the sale within the US of new-in-box analog televisions with NTSC tuners, so any law aimed at banning the use of existing sets would make little or no sense.

I spoke with a Time Warner Cable CSR (customer service representative) over the phone recently and was told that they are already transmitting all their services (including broadcast channels) over the cable digitally. (I believe it; the picture quality is, IMHO, incredible, even clearer than I can ever remember when the cable service was strictly analog, and I've had cable service from TW and its predecessors since 1982.)

Moreover, Time-Warner Cable is prepared to (and does) accomodate their subscribers with analog TVs by converting by whatever means, when necessary, the digital ATSC signals from the headend to NTSC analog. I have basic (what I call "bare-bones basic") cable service from TW, which connects more or less directly to my TV (no converter box is used or required with this level of service; channels may be selected directly at the television, using its own remote) and carries only the local Cleveland/Akron/Canton area TV stations, plus one C-SPAN channel and WGN America. For all other types of alternate programming (except for CNN and Fox News Channel, not to mention ESPN, which obviously are not carried on basic service and which I do not care for anyway), I use my VCR and DVD player. The beauty of watching VHS tapes and DVDs is that the viewer can pick and choose at any time what he or she wishes to watch (by renting or purchasing DVDs), as opposed to broadcast and cable; the programming over the latter is always at the discretion of the networks. If you like what a given cable or broadcast network shows, that's great, but if you don't, you have absolutely no recourse but to change channels or turn off the set.

This is where a digital recorder comes in. With satellite and a HD digital recorder, you can watch whatever you want whenever you want, in HD quality whenever possible, as long as you can find it on the channel guide of course. Usually 1080i, but 1080p is coming.

As for Blu-ray, it sounds like you really don't want to use a flat panel or HD set until you are forced to. There are a few crt HD sets out there, but the larger screen and HD quality of the flat panels are what make this such a fun hobby. So in a nutshell, if you want to continue to use your standard sets, then Blu-ray won't be any use to you, and DVD will be fine.

I've been enjoying BD and HD-DVD discs for a couple of years now on my b&w and color roundie collection. Like many of you, I faced a similar problem of how to play back multiple formats (DVD, HD-DVD, Blue ray, Video CD, etc) on these old TV's and also drive a modern 1080p display. I wanted to do it cheaply and reliably. Sounds like a dream come true? :music: Read on...

The solution is presented as two activities:
1) A device to read any media type (BD, HD-DVD, DVD, CD-ROM etc...)
2) A device to create video to drive any display type (monitor, TV, etc...)

It's important to remember that Blue ray, HD-DVD, DVD, etc are simply storage formats. They are the specification that puts the data on the disc. This is a completely separate problem from creating a video signal for driving a display device like a monitor or TV set.

BD (Blue ray) and HD-DVD .....up to 50GB double layer
DVD ..................................up to 4.7GB double layer

It's not just that high def may have more than 10X the data compared to a DVD, but the data rates for high definition are incredibly higher! Also remember, double layer is like a layer cake, or sandwitch, the laser optics in the player can focus on to extract informataion, one layer at a time, whilst the disc spins. It's a method that effectively doubles the amount of data, in this case video info, on a disc.

When you buy a high def player or DVD player and connect it to your TV you actually are implementing a series of integrated solutions that retrieves information from the disc and outputs it as a signal that can be displayed on the screen of your TV. I've found that the best solution is not to buy anything integrated but to build a system up using components. :yes:

Starting with step 1) a device to read any media format.
I've found that the LG Model GGW-H20L can playback all disc formats (except it cannot physically mount to playback Laser discs or CED discs). This disc drive unit also records double layer Blue ray, so you can copy high def movies too! All for $159 here's the link: :thmbsp:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136155

LG Black 6X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 6X BD-ROM 4MB Cache SATA Internal Blu-ray Burner 6X Blu-ray Disc Burner & HD DVD-ROM Drive Model GGW-H20L - OEM

This thing is incredible. Yes it even plays the now defunct HD-DVD dics that stores like Fry's are dumping for $1.99 but it also plays and records BD (Blue ray Discs) and just about ever other computer disc format ever invented.


Write Speed
BD-R 6X
BD-RE 2X
DVD+R 16X
DVD+RW 8X
DVD-R 16X
DVD-RW 6X
CD-R 40X
CD-RW 24X
BD-R DL 4X
BD-RE DL 2X
DVD+R DL 4X
DVD-R DL 4X

Read Speed
BD-ROM 6X
DVD-ROM 16X
CD-ROM 40X

The secret that makes the GGW-H20L work well is to install it on a good computer system with a graphics card that support HDCP. :D

This leads us to step 2) A device to create video that drives a monitor or TV

Once the info is recovered using the disc drive it's all converted to SATA interface standard that can be easily manipuilated by a computer. The computers graphics card is given the SATA information, which then formats it to the requirements of the display device, e.g. a computer monitor or TV. My preference has been to use the HIS 4670 graphics card (radeon based chip set) becuase it's cheap and has a very effective cooling system. However, NVIDIA type is also a good choice. It really depends on the motherboard chipset for best compatibilty. I run a pair of these graphics cards in non-SLI configuration and configure them to allow simultaneous video of NTSC and 1080p during playback. Although the above link is for Newegg I've found that Fry's is very competative too. Just shop around. Everything can be bought off the shelf to make a system from scratch.

I also have a computer system that uses a pair of GGW-H20L units so I can copy from any computer disc and record onto BD with a single mouse click. And the nice thing about using computers is that it makes it easy to tune into internet TV - which is the way of the future and may eventually make old fashion cable TV obsolete.

Keeping the old TV sets supplied with network quality video really will be a challenging endurance test for us old TV collectors. Using computers is an effective way to bridge the technology difference time has brought over the generations.

jeffhs, you do realize that to properly use a blu ray player you must have a hi definition tv set, right?
this can triple, quadruple the cost of the blu ray experience.

if you want a surround sound system, that can also add significantly to the price of the system.

the good news is you can rent blu ray movies and concerts from places like netflix for very little money.
i pay an average of $1.50 per. not bad!

Thanks much for the info.

Yes, I am aware of the fact that Blu-ray players work at their best only with HD televisions, which is why I plan to stick with standard DVDs for the foreseeable future (I have an RCA XL-100 19" analog TV). I also realize that the cost of a Blu-ray system, including the player and a HD TV, not to mention an (optional) 5-channel basic home-theater sound system, can run into thousands of dollars. I've seen the prices on the better HD flat-panels, which run into the thousands, and Blu-ray players are not cheap either; the lowest price I have seen on any of these players to date is just one cent under $300, well over that with tax. Do the math on all this and you will arrive at a cost of well over $1,000 for a large-screen home-theater system. :eek:

I am also aware of Netflix; in fact, I have been renting DVDs from them since getting my first DVD player in 2005 or so. I don't know how Blockbuster's rental policy compares to that of Netflix, but I do know Netflix lets its customers keep rented DVDs as long as the customers wish. That's good news for me, as there are nights I don't care to watch anything on TV other than the NBC nightly newscast. I currently have three DVDs from Netflix of the 1980s police drama series T. J. Hooker, which I have yet to watch, as I have been watching old episodes of a late-'70s crime drama, Quincy, M. E., on DVDs I purchased from Amazon.com last month.

I am currently a subscriber to Netflix's lowest-priced plan, in which they send me 3 DVDs at a time. I currently pay $18.31 for the service. I have no intention of upgrading to any of their other plans at this time, as I live on a fixed income.

However, I much prefer watching movies and classic TV shows on DVD to paying through the nose for those high-priced movie channels on cable. I've only had one pay movie channel (HBO) in my life since I've had cable; that was back about 20 years ago or so. I had the service for one month, then canceled it and went back to standard cable service.

The pay channels are good, I guess, if one can afford them and doesn't mind seeing the same movies shown over and over all month long (as HBO was doing during the short time I had the channel on my cable; I don't know, however, if they have changed their policies on this matter since the '80s), but for myself, I will stick with DVDs and my VHS tapes. Netflix's prices are reasonable (at least for the time being), and with purchased DVDs, once you buy them, they are yours to watch as many times as you wish--and they are always available, unlike pay cable movie channels (or even standard cable stations, for that matter) which may show a given movie (or an episode of a TV series) only once in a great while; if you miss it, you are out of luck, or you may wait weeks or months before that film or episode is shown again.

I don't know if it's legal to tape with a VCR or to record on a DVR movies from pay cable channels; if it is, there is no problem with missing the movie or show episode the first time around. If not, however, you will be stuck with watching the program at the time the channel sends it down your cable. I believe there are laws against taping or storing on a DVR programming from pay-cable channels, especially now that the DMCA is law, so you may be doing so at your own risk.

[QUOTE=Jeffhs; ...and Blu-ray players are not cheap either; the lowest price I have seen on any of these players to date is just one cent under $300, well over that with tax. Do the math on all this and you will arrive at a cost of well over $1,000 for a large-screen home-theater system. :eek:

I am currently a subscriber to Netflix's lowest-priced plan, in which they send me 3 DVDs at a time. I currently pay $18.31 for the service. I have no intention of upgrading to any of their other plans at this time, as I live on a fixed income.
I had the service for one month, then canceled it and went back to standard cable service.

I don't know if it's legal to tape with a VCR or to record on a DVR movies from pay cable channels[/QUOTE]
================================================== ====================
fyi, bd players can now be had for not much over $100. example (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9245514&type=product&id=1218067604633).

i also am on the n'flix 3/time plan with bd option, costs me $22.25. and also on a limited income as i have c.o.p.d.

also had the pay hdtv channels but got rid of them 10/07--c'cast wanted to raise my rates from ~$80 mo. to $180 mo. UNH UNH! NO WAY JOSE! :nono::no:

i do believe it is legal to record movies off of pay tv channels on a dvr, did it for 3+ years.

if you're thinking about a hdtv, consider instead, a front projector. most likely you can get one for less $ than a hdtv, use a white painted wall as a a screen; i made an 84"er out of sheetrock, cost me $6.
you can stay with a dvd player too; one with hdmi usually gives a better picture.

Most cable operators let customers record movies on the DVRs. Don't forget most cable operators have Video On Demand and the movie channels have their movies on the system so they can be viewed at any time even when the customer does not have a DVR. The telcos have this as well. Not so easy for Dish.....

There is no rule that cable operators have to have digital signals on thier plant but it's in thier interest to do so.

000

I often wonder if Blue Ray makes a crappy movie plot better because it has so much more picture and sound definition :scratch2:

:D Of course! :D

I sometimes wonder, with all the money spent on special effects and highly paid actors, why the studios don't spend a little more money paying writers to polish and improve the plot?

:D Of course! :D

I sometimes wonder, with all the money spent on special effects and highly paid actors, why the studios don't spend a little more money paying writers to polish and improve the plot?

I agree 100 percent. The special effects and all are great, but a lot of today's movies don't have a decent plot line with a beginning and an end. Many of today's films begin beautifully, but there is no real end. Some films are meant to be cliffhangers (with an "ending" that leaves the viewer in suspense), but I'm sure Hollywood did not intend for all movies to end this way.

On a related matter, I cannot help wondering why television programs and movies released on DVD are actually shorter, in most cases, than the orginal versions were. For example, I have DVDs of television shows that were an hour long in their original versions, but the DVD versions run for only about 50 minutes or so. Are parts of shows and movies actually edited out of the DVD releases on purpose (time constraints, language, etc.), or were the missing 10 minutes on these DVDs occupied by commercial breaks in the network versions? Hmmm. :scratch2:

000

One major difference with Bu-Ray is that is has much more strict copy protection than DVD. Forget about modifying your player to eliminate Macrovision. Even worse than that (for us) is that there is a plan to completely disable all analog video outputs (including composite, S-video, and component) by 2013. This will obviously make it completely impossible to use Blu-Ray with our vintage TVs, or even older HDTVs without breaking the law.

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/06/hollywood-drives-us-

I'm not sure what they'll gain by doing this. Unless they come up with another encryption other than HDCP for HDMI, which would really tick off all of the current owners of high end HDTVs if they couldn't play their Blu-rays.

With HDFury2 you can strip out the HDCP and also output it to VGA or composite video. This seems like it might be a solution for vintage TVs.

I don't own anything yet that uses HDMI so I might be confused, but assuming I'm not off base it seems like there's already a solution for something that won't happen until 2013.

Well maybe by then there'll also be TV Police who'll be authorized to make random home searches for HDCP strippers.

John

000

The device that jeyurkon mentioned, and other similar items, will "get around" the no-analog-output problem in Blu-ray's future, for those who really need to do so.

Far more to the point, though, is that regular DVDs and DVD players will be available for years and years, the same as you can still buy cassettes, vinyl records, VHS tapes, VCRs, and other old devices (like, umm, our vintage TV sets!). There is really no reason to plan to connect a Blu-ray player to any of our antique TVs; to do so is about the same as buying a Ferrari and trying to drive it on a bicycle path.

Blu-ray and HDTV are fantastic technologies, and antique-TV collecting and restoration is fun too, but I don't see a value to attempting to mix them together. This analog shut-off thing will not have any effect on our hobby whatsoever.

...
Blu-ray and HDTV are fantastic technologies, and antique-TV collecting and restoration is fun too, but I don't see a value to attempting to mix them together. This analog shut-off thing will not have any effect on our hobby whatsoever.

I guess some of us see a different point of view on mixing the old tech with the new. Blue ray is just a recording format and with the right computer software and graphics card you can easily drive an antique TV set. It's not expecnsive to do since computers are cheap and so are display cards ...maybe the trick is knowing that you can do it? Anyways, I do and have alot of fun with it. The results are quite spectacular! :tresbon:

000

I guess some of us see a different point of view on mixing the old tech with the new. Blue ray is just a recording format and with the right computer software and graphics card you can easily drive an antique TV set. It's not expensive to do since computers are cheap and so are display cards ...maybe the trick is knowing that you can do it? Anyways, I do and have a lot of fun with it. The results are quite spectacular! :tresbon:
I built my first home-theater computer in 2000, with one of the first fifty HDTV recording boards sold to the public (HiPix DTV-200), and I do all of my TV watching and recording with Windows Media Center (now using MC7), so I am aware of the benefits of such equipment. It seems like overkill for feeding old NTSC TV sets, but it is indeed possible as you said.

That's my point, you won't me able to do it without using illegal software, or hardware. No legally licensed blu-ray playback system will output any kind of analog signal in 4 years, and there's no legal way to convert HDMI into any analog format. Yes, it can be done, but it requires expensive illegal items that can be disabled if the blue ray people figure out a way of doing it.

I'm sure regular DVD will be around for a while longer, but the movie industry definitely wants to replace DVD with Blu-ray. If you think it can't happen, then try finding a recent movie on VHS. It's only used for HD right now, but it does support SD, and I can see them selling entire "box sets" on a single blu-ray disc. Also, those of us with HDTVs would be forced to buy second copies of things on DVD if we want to use them on TVs without HDMI.

No, you misunderstood. How to do it means...In a Blue ray licensed system, the BD playback device is installed on a computer running licensed software, in my case Microsoft Windows Media Center software (WinXP Media Center or Vista) with an approved graphics card supporting Radeon or NVIDIA chip sets. The graphics cards automatically default to analog if an HDMI capable display device is not detected. One suggestion is to use 2 separate graphics cards - one to drive HDMI equipped display devices and the other to drive non-HDMI devices that need analog signals such as an old NTSC TV set. :D


I built my first home-theater computer in 2000, with one of the first fifty HDTV recording boards sold to the public (HiPix DTV-200), and I do all of my TV watching and recording with Windows Media Center (now using MC7), so I am aware of the benefits of such equipment. It seems like overkill for feeding old NTSC TV sets, but it is indeed possible as you said.

I agree. I suppose it's all relative, for example in it's day the thought of broadcasting color when all you wanted was b&w was considered by many as overkill too. Those with enough savy technical ability knew both were possible. I also suppose the same mantra exists in our digital age today. At least it's comforting to know that the wang fangled new computers available can still create NTSC signals to drive these old TVs. :yes:

000

ITC, something to consider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_Constraint_Token).

This is exactly why I think analog video in any form, be it HDTV or standard DVD (new releases only, not existing discs), is on its way out. The motion picture companies will likely support the addition of a flag on new Blu-ray discs (eventually) that will disable analog video outputs of standard DVD players, making these discs unwatchable on anything other than Blu-ray players....and it will be some time before the latter are anywhere near as cheap as DVD players are today.

By degrees, we are being brought into the digital age, whether we like it or not. First it was digital TV, now it is Blu-ray threatening to edge out standard DVDs. (I plan to stock up on as many of my favorite shows on DVD as I can as long as they are available, for just this reason.) I can't help wondering what may be next. The DTV converter boxes are designed to last only a short time before they burn up or otherwise quit because they are meant to be a stopgap measure, to allow folks to use their old analog TVs until the sets go belly-up; this is probably also why the government's DTV converter-box coupon program ended when it did, the last day of last month.

I can see a day coming, maybe not next week, next month or even next year (!), but eventually, when the only TV receivers we will see in American (and eventually Canadian) homes will be flat-panel TVs. (Since 2007, it has been unlawful for any store or retail chain to sell new-in-box analog NTSC televisions unless the sets come with a clearly-worded warning that they will not work on an antenna after 06.12.09, and must be connected to cable/satellite or a to a converter box if they are to be used after that date.)

The government cannot declare analog sets illegal, but these sets will not work with antennas without modification, so the public had better get used to the idea that the sun is indeed setting on analog television in North America. The average person does not understand why his or her TV will not work anymore (for the most part, unless the person is in an area with LPTV [low-power TV] stations or translators) when connected directly to an antenna, but whether they understand it or not, that day is here as of 06.12, and there will be no turning back. Full-power television stations in the US are already 100-percent digital, and Canada's stations will follow suit in 2012 or 2013, so the message to all television viewers anywhere in North America, whether they understand the technical details of it or not, is or should be very clear: Go digital or go without television.

stations or translators) when connected directly to an antenna, but whether they understand it or not, that day is here as of 06.12, and there will be no turning back. Full-power television stations in the US are already 100-percent digital, and Canada's stations will follow suit in 2012 or 2013, so the message to all television viewers anywhere in North America, whether they understand the technical details of it or not, is or should be very clear: Go digital or go without television.
hey, we're americans, we're fat, we're obese (so they say), and worst of all, we're complacent.
we wait til a situation gets too far out of hand before we think we should do something about it.
so many may go without tv for while.

probably the best thing that could ever happen to them/us.

just my $.02

This is exactly why I think analog video in any form, be it HDTV or standard DVD (new releases only, not existing discs), is on its way out. The motion picture companies will likely support the addition of a flag on new Blu-ray discs (eventually) that will disable analog video outputs of standard DVD players, making these discs unwatchable on anything other than Blu-ray players.

That is already the case, Blu discs WON'T play on a standard DVD player, just like Beta tapes won't play in a VHS machine, completely different format.

One neat evolution of Blue-ray discs compared to DVD is the development by TDK of the scratch-protection coating called Durabis. That's a good improvement over DVD's! As Eric mentioned, BD won't play in a DVD player. This is because the data dates needed for HD are considerably higher - the data bits are actually closer to the surface compared to a DVD. Regular DVD player electronics are simply not designed for these data rates. However, most BD players are capable of reading DVDs.

Can anyone recall back in the 90's when minidisc and DAT (Digital Audio Tape) were novelties? As I recall the Sony equipment I had was built to a recording industry standard such that an owner was allowed to make a exact digital copy from the original for personal archiving; however, recording hardware would set a bit to prevent a copy of a copy from being made. This meant only a copy form the original was allowed. Does any one know if this is also true for commercially released movies on Blue-ray disc?

... The government cannot declare analog sets illegal, ....

Are you sure about that? Radar detectors are illegal to use (possibly own) in some States ...perhaps because speeding can harm someone if there's an accident? While I can't imagine harming someone by simply watching an old analog TV set? ...please correct me, I could be wrong ...it might offend some politician if they can't be seen in the glory of 1080p :lmao: which is completely counter intutive to Governments generally thought to be slow, prone to error, lacking resolution, grey area policies or taking a black & white stand on most issues. I still remember when I was a wee tyke my Dad's Philco 41 radio had a label on the back of it stating that it was unlawful to operate without a license. Apparently that law fizzled. Still have the radio packed away somewhere. In any event, I'm sure I won't vote for anyone that raises taxes or abolishes the ownership of analog TV sets or there use! Nay, not me.

Keep in mind, we live in an age where the Government tried but failed to keep out of the public domain some of the strongest and most durable public key ciphers to protect data introduced by the computer industry. So, I think the whole argument of the demise of analog, while very real, is being driven by big business and greedy Governments looking for ways to collect tax. The wireless industry in America is partly responsible for driving the FCC to consolidate spectrum which generates billions of dollars in Government revenue. Digital TV is more spectrum efficient compared to analog broadcast standards - that means more stations per MHz and more taxes. It's all about money. It's not about mom and dad needing higher resoltuion of anything. Even an old GE Portacolor is good enough for me! Regardless of the outcome, collectors of old TV sets will likely still be able to enjoy their use. Ganted it may be more inconvenience becuase of required convertor boxes or agile modulators to generate the necessary RF signals. Hey, then again ....this can be also be a technical hobby, right?

000

I wonder why no one has ever applied that coating to DVDs or CDs? I see no reason that it couldn't be used on any optical disc, and maybe even other things like sunglasses.

$ + let DVD's wear out faster :D

Are you sure about that? Radar detectors are illegal to use (possibly own) in some States ...perhaps because speeding can harm someone if there's an accident? While I can't imagine harming someone by simply watching an old analog TV set? ...please correct me, I could be wrong ...it might offend some politician if they can't be seen in the glory of 1080p :lmao: which is completely counter intutive to Governments generally thought to be slow, prone to error, lacking resolution, grey area policies or taking a black & white stand on most issues. I still remember when I was a wee tyke my Dad's Philco 41 radio had a label on the back of it stating that it was unlawful to operate without a license. Apparently that law fizzled. Still have the radio packed away somewhere. In any event, I'm sure I won't vote for anyone that raises taxes or abolishes the ownership of analog TV sets or there use! Nay, not me.

Keep in mind, we live in an age where the Government tried but failed to keep out of the public domain some of the strongest and most durable public key ciphers to protect data introduced by the computer industry. So, I think the whole argument of the demise of analog, while very real, is being driven by big business and greedy Governments looking for ways to collect tax. The wireless industry in America is partly responsible for driving the FCC to consolidate spectrum which generates billions of dollars in Government revenue. Digital TV is more spectrum efficient compared to analog broadcast standards - that means more stations per MHz and more taxes. It's all about money. It's not about mom and dad needing higher resoltuion of anything. Even an old GE Portacolor is good enough for me! Regardless of the outcome, collectors of old TV sets will likely still be able to enjoy their use. Ganted it may be more inconvenience becuase of required convertor boxes or agile modulators to generate the necessary RF signals. Hey, then again ....this can be also be a technical hobby, right?

I guess I should have said "the government cannot declare analog TV receivers illegal...yet", although I don't see why they would even try to ban them; they probably wouldn't have much luck getting such legislation passed, since there are so many analog televisions still in use. They are all some people have or can afford; let's face it, analog CRT TVs still make better pictures than most flat panels, although there are some very large FPs from reputable manufacturers that produce excellent pictures, comparable to any good CRT set.

It is in fact against the law to own or use radar detectors in the state of Virginia (one cannot purchase such devices there for just that reason); this ban has been in effect there for years or decades. I don't know, however, whether or not any other state in this country ever banned (or is currently banning) the devices.

I don't see why the government would have any reason to ban analog televisions. They are set to ban sales of incandescent light bulbs in 2012 or '13, but that is also for a reason--to save energy. This is also the reason for the government's "cash for clunkers" program, although this program is entirely voluntary for the time being--if someone wants to keep his or her treasured classic car(s) for years they can do so.

Our government has no power whatsoever to tell us what kind of TV set we can use, even though it is in fact impossible nowadays to purchase new-in-box analog sets due to a law passed two years ago, banning the sale in the US of such sets. Remember as well that cable operators are not bound by FCC rules to transmit digital signals; as another person posted, either here or in another thread, cable companies are free to send analog signals over their cables forever if they so choose.

Time-Warner Cable still has full-analog service available for people who do not yet have digital TVs; I think it is a law all cable companies must abide by (that they must provide analog service indefinitely for subscribers with older sets), and will be for some time, as there are literally millions of analog televisions still in use. That ridiculous scenario perpetrated some years ago in which everyone in the US, with no exceptions, would throw out their old analog TVs en masse in 2006 and get digital flat-panels because analog sets would no longer operate (2006 was then the proposed analog shutoff date) was just a scare tactic, calculated to boost sales of flat-panel HDTVs.

While it is true that even today standard analog TVs will not work without cable or a converter box, these options are available today (converter boxes were not available in 2006 and many cable companies were still 100-percent analog at that time as well), and in fact cable companies are required by law to provide analog service if the subscriber(s) need it--and as I said, a great many people still do rely on analog cable, as they may live in areas where rabbit ears or even outdoor antennas don't work well and still have "old fashioned" analog TVs.

Your dad's Philco radio must have been an export model, if it had a warning label stating its use without a license is illegal; some European countries do, however, have (or have had) laws stating that radio and television receivers must be licensed.

To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a law here in the US requiring people to license their radio receivers. I do know, however, that there was a law against listening to shortwave in this country during World War II; in fact, radio repair shops were required by that very law to disable the shortwave bands, if any, on any set that came in for repairs during that time.

Can anyone recall back in the 90's when minidisc and DAT (Digital Audio Tape) were novelties? As I recall the Sony equipment I had was built to a recording industry standard such that an owner was allowed to make a exact digital copy from the original for personal archiving; however, recording hardware would set a bit to prevent a copy of a copy from being made. This meant only a copy form the original was allowed. Does any one know if this is also true for commercially released movies on Blue-ray disc?
Ah, yes. SCMS. No, Blu-ray discs do not have that signal; instead, they just have their whole system to not allow any (legal) copies in the first place, the more advanced version of what DVDs have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Copy_Management_System

Regarding computers built to allow Blu-ray play from analog outputs, some software already limits what signals can be output from analog computer video connections (but those limits can usually be hacked, like most other things on computers). I built a computer several years ago with what was called "TV output" at the time (an NTSC composite-video jack), and I wanted to record a DVD onto a VHS tape for a trip or something. But... The DVD-playing program (PowerDVD or WinDVD, probably) disabled the TV output (just sent out black video, or maybe the whole program had an error message) when I tried to play a Disney DVD.

Shortly after that, I bought one of the "PC-to-TV" external devices (RGB/VGA input, NTSC output) and solved that problem. Such external devices are available for all kinds of signal conversion, including ones that accept DVI/HDMI with HDCP and output analog in various forms.

$ + let DVD's wear out faster :D

I cannot see how DVDs (or audio/data CDs, for that matter) can wear out. They are read by lasers, as opposed to video cassette and video/audio tape recorders that use heads which can gouge the surface of the tape as they wear; also, oxide can wear off any audio or video tape after years of use, although I have seen and heard some 30+-year-old audio tapes that still sound as good as the day they were made (I have audio cassettes that may be 15 years old and sound great). I have videocassettes I recorded 20 years ago (plus a few professionally recorded ones), as well, that still play every bit as well as when they were first recorded.

I think most audio and video cassettes fail because of mechanical trouble with the player in which they are listened to or viewed, not in normal use in a properly-operating player. I lost an audio cassette with irreplaceable music on it about a year ago, when my stereo cassette deck jammed and pulled the tape out of the cartridge (!). I've lost videocassettes the same way over the years. I remember one instance a few years ago, in which I had just taped a movie on one of the cable channels; my VCR jammed or developed some problem that wound the tape around the head drum and who knows where else. I practically had to wreck the VCR to get the cassette out. Worse, I never got to see the movie I had taped. :no:


Phonograph records are read (for want of a better word) by ceramic or magnetic cartridges to which small needles (styli) are attached; of course, these styli do wear out after so many hours of use. Phonograph records can last years or decades under normal use; however, if the stylus is so badly worn that its tip is more akin to a chisel than to a phono stylus (as it would be after many years of use), it can gouge the grooves and damage or destroy the record in no time flat. This is why many audio enthusiasts, myself included, transfer their phonograph records to tape and later CD, keeping the original record for a backup.

Unless CDs and/or DVDs get scratched deeply or otherwise damaged severely (say by, heaven forbid, grinding the disc, data side down, underfoot on a concrete sidewalk[!] as some kids will do with discs they either don't like or in a fit of anger), these optical discs should last quite a while. The setup and recovery CD for my computer, for example, is nine years old, and still works as well as the day I bought the computer; the setup discs for my broadband Internet service are several years old as well and are still readable and usable, as are all of my data storage discs and music CDs. However, I did have one data disc come up as unusable (my computer's CD drive reported that the disc was severely damaged and could not be formatted, let alone used for data storage) several days ago while I was trying to back up files on the computer.

CDs are already coated in most cases (except, perhaps, for cheap off-brand discs), so small scratches should not ordinarily affect their operation. Data, CD and DVD playback devices, moreover, have error correction systems that will make several attempts to read a disc, before declaring that disc unusable. This means that a CD with visible scratches, if they aren't too deep or too long, will probably work as well, for years, as they are meant to in your computer, audio CD player or DVD player.

However, no error correction system, no matter how well it does its job, can work miracles. As I said above, very severe scratches on CDs or DVDs can and in almost all cases will render the disc unusable for anything other than a coaster or a miniature Frisbee.