I have not attempted a cataract repair ever since the 23EGP22 imploded on me last year. I wanted to experiment with alternative (safer) methods of removing the face lens. I really have not had the need to do a cateract repair job since then, but still, I don't feel comfortable doing the job anymore. After some 10+ successful jobs, the one implosion tends to change your ways. I recently had a 25AP22 rebuilt by scotty at hawkeye, he did a great job. It had the green halo of course as it was a rauland tube for a 1965 Zenith color set I worked on for someone. The tube came back to me with the lens mounted using the foam tape. He did a great job. In fact, it was the first time I got to see what a 60's era zenith bonded lens CRT looked like without green halo. Im so used to the green halo on zeniths that it changed the whole look of the TV.

I asked scotty if he can simply do a faceplate removal/install job. He said thats not a problem and it can be done quite cheaply. He no longer bonds the lenses back with PVA however, he stopped doing that about 20 years ago he told me. He quoted me about $70 for that work, which i feel is very good considering it greatly helps eliminate the danger hazard. He has the proper equipment, so he'll get those jobs from now on.

I'm actually going to have him rebuild two roundie CRT's for me in a couple weeks. My CTC-7 sanford has a bad original 21CYP22 and my '64 Zenith roundie has its original 21FJP22 that I'd like to keep original to the set. I'll be taking a drive out there to bring him the CRT's and he also offered to give me a tour of his facility to see what its all about, which sounds really interesting. I always wanted to see what its like to rebuild a CRT. Should be a good trip.


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2009-3/1337386/DSCF8146.JPG

Doug -

Wow - that looks nice!

The set in my avatar has a 23EGP22 and it was the first one I ever did cataract removal on. I've only done two, but after seeing your experience, I've sworn off of that particular task. It's nice to know there's someone out there who has the experience, equipment, and facilities to do this type of thing safely.

Did Scotty mention how he performs this type of work? I've heard from people who rebuilt tubes in the past that the safety glass would come off in the oven as part of the rebuilding process, and that they'd reglue them with the PVA - but that was all for a tube that was already in the process of being rebuilt.

-Jim

scotty told me that he always heats the tube in the oven to remove the lens while its still under vacuum. He claimed thats the only way to do it. I've heard from others that the lens gets removed once the entire tube is exposed to atmospheric pressure, but apparently thats a myth in the tube rebuilding world.

Is that the set Tom grabbed? If so, it looks like new! I remember it being scruffy. It IS weird to see a Zenith without green halo, I always think that when I see them in old shows too. Maybe I should redo the CRT in my recently restored '68 Zenith that I scored from a certain someone last year.;)

Nope, totally different set, but exact same model as the one I sold to Tom. A guy in Chicago found this on craigslist last month, the set was in a highrise complex downtown. He's an audio guy, not really into TV tech but wanted a tube color set, so he saved it, then found my youtube videos and asked if I could bring it back to life. He brought it by and the tube was toast, brightener, fully cranked G2 controls. "oh crap" I thought. The set was a total mess but he really wanted me to try and get it going. Numerous hack job repairs that needed to be corrected, had a couple open filter caps too and a bad selenium focus rectifier as the picture wouldn't sharpen up with the focus control. The saying about sets being too far gone is non-sense when you're talking about a zenith. No zenith is too far gone as long as the cabinet isnt ruined. I suggested the rebuild for the CRT, which he was all for. It was also my first experience with having a tube rebuilt and was an all around great experience working with hawkeye. Very professional operation. The picture is so nice on a zenith with a strong (in this case new) CRT!

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2009-3/1337386/DSCF8144.JPG

Beautiful work on that set, WOW.
On another note, I seem to keep missing the Zeniths and I look everyday. Timing is everything they say, although this one was a basket case. Looks like it was just the victim of bad techs until you fixed it, it seems the original owner took care of the cabinet.

Wow - that is a gorgeous picture!

-Jim

Just curious.


Counting man hours for labor, CRT rebuild cost , parts replacement cost, travel/shipping expenses for the CRT, the price paid for the old tv at auction/estate sale etc, etc... How many hundreds of dollars are invested in this common old Zenith??

beautiful set.i have a nib zenith 23v crt just waiting for something worthy to install it in.i remember in the late 70s and early 80s,those zeniths were plentiful around here.my buddy roscoe would find these everywhere.we repaired and sold a ton of them.even with the dreaded "green halo"they still put out the picture!i am sure that the southend of columbus ohio is full of those old zeniths.
ran into an old customer several months ago and he told me that he had a lcd in the living room but the old zenith console was in the bedroom.it gets more use than the new set.still going strong after 25+ years.if only i would have kept one or two of them back in the day......................................

Just curious.


Counting man hours for labor, CRT rebuild cost , parts replacement cost, travel/shipping expenses for the CRT, the price paid for the old tv at auction/estate sale etc, etc... How many hundreds of dollars are invested in this common old Zenith??

Someone has a negative attitude. It was worth what was spent because the owner is happy. What is a common Zenith to you may be a real treasure to someone else. To each their own, words of my late Grandmother.

On most of the items that I fix to keep, I end up spending more than they're "worth" to the average person and even some collectors. I enjoy this hobby and don't mind spending the money if I have it to spend and I plan on keeping the item.

Me too Bryan.

scotty told me that he always heats the tube in the oven to remove the lens while its still under vacuum. He claimed thats the only way to do it. I've heard from others that the lens gets removed once the entire tube is exposed to atmospheric pressure, but apparently thats a myth in the tube rebuilding world.

That's what I always heard too - that the lens just comes off as a result of the heating process when the tube has already been opened up. I guess if the safety glass can be removed with a heat gun while the tube is under vacuum then an oven might be a better choice. Plus the entire tube remains at the same temperature if heated slowly enough avoiding the differential expansion that seems to be a problem in these cases.

-Jim

No, not a negative attitude.

Just curious how much money was spent, especially the cost of having the CRT rebuilt.

On my list of "maybe" repairs is a 67/68 Zenith lowboy console, early American cabinet, 23xc... chassis. The old beast works, but needs a chassis restoration, and a cataract removal. Not really sure it is worth a few hundred dollars in parts. Replacing just a few of the electron tubes, not counting a CRT rebuild, could easily exceed 100$. No, I will not purchase untested tubes, or use pulls. I do not do hack restorations.

Some sets are sorta like rebuilding or restoring a Plymouth minivan or a Ford Pinto. Sure it can be done, but sometimes the real question is WHY?

Sorta like restoring that old RCA roundie I picked up recently. WHY? Iffen the CRT checks "OK" it is doable, but the question remains, WHY?

BTW, if the CRT is "ok", the set is free to whomever wants it. No, I will not ship or deliver. No I will not part it out.

Some sets are sorta like rebuilding or restoring a Plymouth minivan...

Man, am I on the wrong path. I've restored both low-dollar sets and a Plymouth minivan. :D

As previously stated, money is not always the factor in everything. Sometimes money is no object with people. Its none of my business to encourage someone NOT to go ahead with a repair. Alot of it has to do with the restorer or business man being lazy and not wanting to put the effort into doing the job that he feels isn't worth his time. If I point out the problems and be honest and tell the customer what the cost of the job is and he agrees, then we've got a deal. Thats what happened with this TV. The end result is saving another vintage TV. Just think, there will never be as many Zenith color TV's as there are right now. The numbers will continue to fall. There are how many of us who collect these? 20 people out of the entire countries population? The probability of us 20 or so keeping whats still out there alive is pretty darn small and I'm sure many many sets get junked after many estate sales we cannot attend, and many sets just get junked because very few familys actually go through having an estate sale. That being said, I do what I can keep them going, even for others who might appriciate the TV but don't have the ability to take care of them. I've had fellow collectors insult me to my face telling me the TV's I collect and work arn't worth a damn and that they'll never be worth anything, which is quite shameful for a fellow collector to comment like that. We are the ones who set the value on the old TV's, nobody else. We can all agree that nothing is better than finding a mint set with few hours at the estate sale that we got for only $10. Not everyone has time to hit the estate sales on a weekly basis, most likely because they have a life outside of work (joke against me) to find the mint perfect set and if they find a set they really like and it costs a few bucks to bring one back, so be it. They're happy, I get some money and a good word is spread so I get repeat customers who will also become friends in the hobby. I've done my part.

Doug, I must say--the picture on the Zenith TV in your post is fabulous! Looks like a good photograph in that thumbnail, and probably looks even better in person. It's amazing to me how well these older sets can be made to work if one is willing to put forth the effort, as you do with your sets. Keep up the good work. You are doing your part to preserve the history of what was for decades (until LG got hold of them) one of the finest and best TV and home-entertainment manufacturers on Earth.

I agree as well with your statement that "no Zenith is too far gone if the cabinet (is still in good shape)." Zenith TVs, radios, and stereo gear until the beginning of the LG era were always like that. I've had a few of their TVs in my 41 years in electronics and have a small collection of Zenith radios today (started experimenting with TVs and electronics in 1967, at the tender age of eleven--my dad was an electrical engineer and got me hooked on the technical end of TV, radio and electronics very early on, eventually leading to my getting an amateur radio license and becoming incurably hooked on the hobby in 1972 when I was 16) and still have a Sentry 2 table model TV, almost 14 years old, with a fantastic picture and the original CRT.

I have (and have always had) the highest respect for the original Zenith Radio Corporation of Chicago--they were top-of-the-line in TV, radio, audio and stereo in their day. :yes: The day they left Chicago for Korea was the end of an era. :no: I don't have to guess why you like Zenith TV's so well.

i agree wholeheartedly!if you invest in this to use it or display it-then who cares how much you spend?i have little money in my small collection,however,if a rare set comes along and i want it?i will pay what i have to.will we ever get that money back?yes,when we can look at them,watch them and enjoy them.i use my xl100 daily and my ctc15 regularly.somehow while sitting in my paidar barber chair,programs are more exciting than using the sony lcd or my projector.
national public radio seems to sound better on one of my zenith radios.
my son has several guitars in his collection.his 1960 gibson les paul is his favorite.he appreciates the quality and craftsmanship.besides,we are all doing our share for recycling!!!

Some sets are sorta like rebuilding or restoring a Plymouth minivan or a Ford Pinto. Sure it can be done, but sometimes the real question is WHY?


Well, here's one person's answer to that very question:
http://www.turbovan.net/van.html
It happens to be the Dodge version rather than the Plymouth, but hey.

(No, that's not me or my site-- I just happened to see a reference to this site a while back in a different forum, and thought it was amusing)

... I've had fellow collectors insult me to my face telling me the TV's I collect and work aren't worth a damn and that they'll never be worth anything...

I've been through that with old cars - went to a meeting of the local Mopar club once and actually had the president berate my '66 Chrysler because it wasn't a Charger or Barracuda or Road Runner. That was sixteen years ago, and although I know things have changed I have no desire to join the car club.

I don't need the approval of a bunch of people to validate my hobbies, but it is nice that there's such a fine group of people here on AudioKarma that share information and support each others' interests.

Doug, the folks that run down your sets can't accept that things change and as the older folks pass on and younger folks come into any hobby, interests naturally tend to shift towards newer products. Sure, there will always be interest in the 40's & 50's sets, but now there are people collecting stuff made in the 80's too. The 80's sets aren't generally my cup of tea, but I appreciate the people saving those too and wouldn't discount them all as crap - that's a pretty narrow way of looking at things.

I've been through that with old cars - went to a meeting of the local Mopar club once and actually had the president berate my '66 Chrysler because it wasn't a Charger or Barracuda or Road Runner. That was sixteen years ago, and although I know things have changed I have no desire to join the car club.

I don't need the approval of a bunch of people to validate my hobbies, but it is nice that there's such a fine group of people here on AudioKarma that share information and support each others' interests.

Doug, the folks that run down your sets can't accept that things change and as the older folks pass on and younger folks come into any hobby, interests naturally tend to shift towards newer products. Sure, there will always be interest in the 40's & 50's sets, but now there are people collecting stuff made in the 80's too. The 80's sets aren't generally my cup of tea, but I appreciate the people saving those too and wouldn't discount them all as crap - that's a pretty narrow way of looking at things.

I never have understood why some people have to run someone else in the dirt because of their hobby. We don't all have to like the same things; but, we all should have enough respect for others not to insult them over their interest. Back when I first started collecting tube radios, there were plenty of collectors that thought any radio made after WWII was junk and they turned up their noses at anyone that collected anything newer.

I also don't feel the need to get approval from anyone, collector or non-collector, concerning my hobbies. It goes without saying that some of the people that I associate with in this town think I'm a dork; but, that's perfectly OK. None of them are paying my bills, cooking my food, driving me around, or doing anything else that might be beneficial to me.

So, whatever your hobby may be, ROCK ON! If anyone does not like it, tell them to kiss your behind!

[QUOTE=drh4683;2846957]As previously stated, money is not always the factor in everything. Sometimes money is no object with people. Its none of my business to encourage someone NOT to go ahead with a repair. Alot of it has to do with the restorer or business man being lazy and not wanting to put the effort into doing the job that he feels isn't worth his time. If I point out the problems and be honest and tell the customer what the cost of the job is and he agrees, then we've got a deal. QUOTE]

That's the way I see it. Several months ago, an older man called me to repair a 1970 RCA console stereo that he'd been trying to get repaired for at least 15 years. All of the shops that he took it to gave him the usual "it's too old, can't get parts, and would cost too much to fix even if we could get parts" line. Like you said, it all boils down to the repair shop being lazy and not wanting to exert much effort. I fixed the stereo by replacing all electrolytic caps, cleaning the pots, resoldering a loose power resistor, and doing some work on the record changer. Nothing that a reputable repair shop couldn't have done had they just taken the time.

I'll tell you, I made a new friend when I fixed that stereo. I also know that he'll remember me if he needs something fixed, knows someone that needs something fixed, or sees an old unwanted piece of electronics.

I have not had any bad experiences or put downs from collecting TVs. My radio collecting friends seem to understand and others are not interested. I do have a 1978 Mustang II(the one based on the Pinto) and have gotten a few put downs(quite a while back now) from other Mustang owners. Some seem to have forgotten that the original Mustang was based on the Falcon and the 1980s Mustangs were based on the Fairmont.

These put downs have gotten less and less as I always seem to get trophys at Mustang shows now. There are very few Mustang IIs left to compete with.

I've had a few strange looks from people when I tell them what I collect, but most of my associations are in technically-oriented circles, so a lot of people are actually intrigued that I have 30-50 year old televisions in operational condition.

Most people are intrigued by them; I used to have a Motorola B/W console in the living room with rabbit ears, UHF converter, and DVD player. It was fun to fire it up and play a DVD of old shows for people who grew up in the 50's.

One of my wife's childhood friends, about my age, had gotten a Zenith AM/FM/phono at an antique shop and wound up getting it fixed. Somewhere along the line we began talking about things and he was amazed that someone else of his generation knew how they worked.

-Jim

Just curious.


Counting man hours for labor, CRT rebuild cost , parts replacement cost, travel/shipping expenses for the CRT, the price paid for the old tv at auction/estate sale etc, etc... How many hundreds of dollars are invested in this common old Zenith??

Probably about the same as buying a modern TV. However, chances are this Zenith will outlast any modern fecalware set.:D

As previously stated, money is not always the factor in everything. Sometimes money is no object with people. Its none of my business to encourage someone NOT to go ahead with a repair. Alot of it has to do with the restorer or business man being lazy and not wanting to put the effort into doing the job that he feels isn't worth his time. If I point out the problems and be honest and tell the customer what the cost of the job is and he agrees, then we've got a deal. Thats what happened with this TV. The end result is saving another vintage TV. Just think, there will never be as many Zenith color TV's as there are right now. The numbers will continue to fall. There are how many of us who collect these? 20 people out of the entire countries population? The probability of us 20 or so keeping whats still out there alive is pretty darn small and I'm sure many many sets get junked after many estate sales we cannot attend, and many sets just get junked because very few familys actually go through having an estate sale. That being said, I do what I can keep them going, even for others who might appriciate the TV but don't have the ability to take care of them. I've had fellow collectors insult me to my face telling me the TV's I collect and work arn't worth a damn and that they'll never be worth anything, which is quite shameful for a fellow collector to comment like that. We are the ones who set the value on the old TV's, nobody else. We can all agree that nothing is better than finding a mint set with few hours at the estate sale that we got for only $10. Not everyone has time to hit the estate sales on a weekly basis, most likely because they have a life outside of work (joke against me) to find the mint perfect set and if they find a set they really like and it costs a few bucks to bring one back, so be it. They're happy, I get some money and a good word is spread so I get repeat customers who will also become friends in the hobby. I've done my part.
Well said Doug.

30 years ago, any postwar TV was junk; 20 years ago, the only "worthy" sets were 10" or less bw, or 15" color. Time moves on; who knows what will be collectable tomorrow. If we stick around long enough there will be guys on here bragging about that '99 Panasonic plasma they found. Some of us will turn up our noses, but that's the way it goes.

About 19 years ago a few of us were gathered at a friend's house. One guy had a company truck, a new Chevrolet. Another had a 19 year old (1972) Chevrolet pickup. The comment was made that the new one would never last like the old one had, and was junk in comparison. Fast forward, yesterday a customer was here dropping off his brand new Chevrolet pickup for repairs. He mentioned that it wasn't nearly as tough as that old rig he still owns-a 19 year old Chevrolet. Yesterday's stuff is always "tougher, better built" than todays, at least in our minds...

I couldn't personally justify spending the money to rebuild a crt in a rectangular set...but if I had more money, sure. If I were making, say, twice what I make now-heck, I'd probably send every weak tube I've got out to Scotty. On my list of priorities right now, it just isn't there.

I feel right now that any tube color set is a thing to be preserved. If I can't give them a home myself I will do what I can to find someone else to save them. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I really wish I could save them all...but I've already taken out a mortgage, added onto the house, put a shed in the backyard-filled much of all this with radios and TV sets, stacked 3-4 high...not much more I can do. Sometimes I think I must be nuts, it doesn't make sense to put all this time/effort/money into a bunch of stuff that most folks consider to be junk. But it makes me happy...and I can honestly say, I am a man of few vices. I suppose collecting old electronics is my worse one!

30 years ago, any postwar TV was junk; 20 years ago, the only "worthy" sets were 10" or less bw, or 15" color. Time moves on; who knows what will be collectable tomorrow. If we stick around long enough there will be guys on here bragging about that '99 Panasonic plasma they found. Some of us will turn up our noses, but that's the way it goes.

About 19 years ago a few of us were gathered at a friend's house. One guy had a company truck, a new Chevrolet. Another had a 19 year old (1972) Chevrolet pickup. The comment was made that the new one would never last like the old one had, and was junk in comparison. Fast forward, yesterday a customer was here dropping off his brand new Chevrolet pickup for repairs. He mentioned that it wasn't nearly as tough as that old rig he still owns-a 19 year old Chevrolet. Yesterday's stuff is always "tougher, better built" than todays, at least in our minds...

I couldn't personally justify spending the money to rebuild a crt in a rectangular set...but if I had more money, sure. If I were making, say, twice what I make now-heck, I'd probably send every weak tube I've got out to Scotty. On my list of priorities right now, it just isn't there.

I feel right now that any tube color set is a thing to be preserved. If I can't give them a home myself I will do what I can to find someone else to save them. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I really wish I could save them all...but I've already taken out a mortgage, added onto the house, put a shed in the backyard-filled much of all this with radios and TV sets, stacked 3-4 high...not much more I can do. Sometimes I think I must be nuts, it doesn't make sense to put all this time/effort/money into a bunch of stuff that most folks consider to be junk. But it makes me happy...and I can honestly say, I am a man of few vices. I suppose collecting old electronics is my worse one!

I'm there with you Bryan, I feel the same way and am in the same condition as far as storage and money issues with sets. It's funny how people are like your Chevy story. I've had the same conversations, I bet a lot more of us have too. Then there's the thing about people saying the sets are junk. I'm sick and tired of people and their comments and "suggestions" as to what I should do with tvs and blah blah blah. I used to be nice about that kind of stuff but now will just say shut the f up if you don't like it. Don't come over to a place that has things you don't like. I don't want to hear it.
These sets make me happy too, there are much worse things we all could be doing. Rant over........:D

I've been through that with old cars - went to a meeting of the local Mopar club once and actually had the president berate my '66 Chrysler because it wasn't a Charger or Barracuda or Road Runner. That was sixteen years ago, and although I know things have changed I have no desire to join the car club.

Been there and done that.. Multiple times.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/Chromacolor2/More%20stupid%20cars/65Newportft-rr-1.jpg

(That's after the new paint on the ride back to Detroit)

I've run into basically two types of collectors when it comes to both old cars and TVs. There are the people who are in it for the pop-culture "flash" factor, the '57 Chevys, the Philco Predictas, etc. These are by far the most common types of people.

Then you have the folks who are really into it, and money isn't really the deciding factor. I have a very good friend who has owned new Dodge Vipers, Superbirds, Hemi 'cudas, etc. But at the same time, this guy can rattle on with equal and enthusiasm for a '74 Newport, '85 Daytona, or '02 Minivan.

People like this are interested in ALL the aspects too. Sometimes the story-behind-the story is what's cool. At a recent car show hosted at Chrysler HQ, the guy who is considered the "father of the Roadrunner" (Jack Smith) did a little slide show about all the things that happened behind the scenes, (how they got the licensing from Warner Brothers, what was the Plan-B, the CEO who wanted to make Roadrunner 4drs, and how he avoided the guy so he never had to say "no".)

In the TV world, I don't even like when people dismiss certain cabinet styles as "horrible". There are certainly some that I like better than others, but I find what really makes things gel is having the whole room set up a certain way.

You have to appreciate things for the era in which they were made. I'm not a fan of those TV sets with the "dungeon" look, but when you see one in a room filled with the proper black vinyl furniture, black chain wall hangings, and super long shag carpet; it's pretty cool.

It least it has style. I'd trade that any day for the black plastic boxes and flatscreen poster-frames we have now.

as a former mechanic,it is very good to see something other than a performance model that has been restored.that chrysler would get more than a once over from me.love to see the cruising vessels alive and well.too many chargers and roadrunners out there.like mustangs and camaros.the collectors have flooded us with them.starting to all look the same.me and josh go to car shows all the time and it seems there will be the above mentioned with some chevelles,a firebird or two,etc.same goes for tvs.everyone wants a ct 100 or a a zenith roundie.nice sets,but there were many other interesting models too.the beauty about our hobby is the diversity.you never know what you will see when you log on!

Back to the cataract repairs, I have found that the "hot wire" method works on all bonded tubes without the use of heat guns. I plan to make a better rig to do it then share my results with everyone here. It seems to be less "implodey" of a method:D

000

Yep, I do and have had no mishaps yet, but accidents can happen.

I plan to make a better rig to do it then share my results with everyone here.
It would be useful to see a start-to-finish tutorial. I have gotten in the habit of snapping lots of digital photos during every restoration, so that doesn't slow you up too much for a job you're going to do anyway.

Phil