My recent acquisition of a Philco Mystery Control and the thread on the Sentinel remote got me thinking. If there were wireless remotes for radios way back in '39, why were TV remotes in the 50s wired?

Sure, the Mystery is ridiculously big, but were there other reasons like RF interference?

Do you have the console radio that goes with?, it would be cool if you did. Those are awesome! Good question on the remotes, I want to know too.

I didn't know there were early wireless radio remotes, but I bet the band they used got licensed for other stuff and/or they became regulated out of existence. I don't thiink anything using UHF or even VHF would have been made for the home that early, but I could be wrong. (I'm thinking VHF use was low VHF for TV /FM, and high VHF for radar development.) Anybody know the frequency?

I didn't know there were early wireless radio remotes, but I bet the band they used got licensed for other stuff and/or they became regulated out of existence. I don't thiink anything using UHF or even VHF would have been made for the home that early, but I could be wrong. (I'm thinking VHF use was low VHF for TV /FM, and high VHF for radar development.) Anybody know the frequency?

Yes, it ran 350-400 kHz. So below the AM band. There's loads of info here: http://www.philcorepairbench.com/mystery/history.htm

Do you have the console radio that goes with?, it would be cool if you did. Those are awesome! Good question on the remotes, I want to know too.

Thanks, it took me 4 years to track one down at a reasonable price.

I don't have a compatible set, although I do have 5 Philco radios including 2 big consoles. I had to limit my madness :)

You may have noticed a huge console behind my Admiral sets. That's the greatest score of my life. It's Philco a 15DX. Built at the height of the depression in 1932 it sold for $250 (about $3,000 today) and only 1100 were made. I got it for $10 :D

I've been doing a lot of homework before I even think about touching it. Maybe I'll start on it this fall.

Here's more photos if you're interested: http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/sets/72157618650578066/detail/

If there were wireless remotes for radios way back in '39, why were TV remotes in the 50s wired?
The same thing happened with VCRs. All the early ones used wired remote controls, even when they started having all-electronic transport controls and tuners. Mitsubishi was the first company to make a VCR with a wireless remote control.

Thanks, it took me 4 years to track one down at a reasonable price.


If you find a console and you need batteries for your mystery control, let me know, I make working replicas.

I've repaired one of those Philco radios with the phone dial remote. It's an electromechanical nightmare. It has a signal seeker and a latching relay affair. NEVER again. RCA also had a remote capability on some of their pre-WWII radios, but I believe they were all wired. Same disastrous latching relay and signal seeker though.

Charles

I've repaired one of those Philco radios with the phone dial remote. It's an electromechanical nightmare. It has a signal seeker and a latching relay affair. NEVER again. RCA also had a remote capability on some of their pre-WWII radios, but I believe they were all wired. Same disastrous latching relay and signal seeker though.

Charles

I'm not sure what you mean by "signal seeker", could you please elaborate?

I'm not sure what you mean by "signal seeker", could you please elaborate?

The one I did was a 39-116, if I recall. I'll look up the Rider's on it and see if I can post a copy.

Charles

The "signal seeker" was a function on some high-end car radios that literally sought out local signals on the radio dial in a given listening area, starting at the low end of the band; they weren't too common on home radios of the '30s except deluxe Philcos, Zeniths, et al. Many car radios made for Cadillacs in the '50s had this feature as well, as it allowed the driver to tap one button or bar (or depress a foot switch) and have the radio scan for stations without having to take his or her eyes off the road, not unlike the mechanical pushbutton presets on later car radios from the '50s until now; the latter operated by manually setting the pushbuttons for up to five favorite stations. Each time a button was pressed it would move the tuner to the station for which the button was set.

Note, however, that electronic car radio pushbutton tuning systems from about the '80s to now are preset by means of a "set" button, usually located at the far left of the radio looking at the front. The function of the buttons is the same as the mechanical presets used in older radios; most if not all electronic-tuning car radios today have scan and seek tuning that works the same as the older Cadillac signal-seeker radios, except today's signal-seekers are all electronic with no moving parts. The old signal-seeking car and home radios had complicated mechanical linkages, gears, motors, etc. and depended on tube-operated circuitry for their operation, not to mention being a repairman's nightmare to service.

Note as well that almost all the early electronic car radio tuning systems had a sensitivity control that could be set for different signal areas, causing the radio to scan for stations of varying signal strengths. Cadillac car radios had this, with the sensitivity switch located in the center of the scan bar. The switch had three positions, for distant, local and (I think) manual tuning. There was a legend engraved on the signal-seeker bar above the sensitivity switch with arrows pointing to the "distant" position; the legend itself read "more stations" and denoted in which position the sensitivity switch was to be set for maximum scanning sensitivity. This position was ordinarily used in areas with few or no local radio stations; the tuner would scan the dial, stopping at literally the first station it found, which was almost always the strongest station in the area (in many small towns and rural areas the "strongest" station would be a dinky little 250-watt daytimer, with few other local signals to be found, but it was entirely possible that the scanner went wild, picking up one station after another, after local sundown when the AM radio dial opened up to the world; this was in the days of the big 50kW "clear channel" stations, which could reach coast-to-coast after local sunset as they were the only stations on the frequency at that time). The "local" position of the sensitivity selector was, of course, for city and suburban areas; it caused the radio to seek out the area's local stations, and in most areas like Cleveland, Chicago, Philadelphia, et al. it found plenty, as these cities all had (and still have to this day) many 50kW stations. The "manual" position disabled the signal-seeker and permitted the use of the manual presets or the radio's own tuning knob for station selection.

The signal-seeker in home radios (again, only deluxe Philcos and Zeniths, as a rule) worked the same way, also with a control to regulate the scanning sensitivity.

These radios' scanners also likely went wild when the AM radio dial opened up--even more than car radios, as most AM radios of the '30s and '40s had to be used with outdoor wire antennas and could receive quite a few more stations than even car radios. The latter used nothing more complicated than a telescoping whip antenna on a fender, but since automotive radios are built to be extremely sensitive, if you were motoring around between towns or literally "in the middle of nowhere", with few or no local stations to be found, what your car radio would pick up would be literally anyone's guess.

The remotes likely had a couple of buttons, marked with up and down arrows or similar legends, to activate the scanner as well, not unlike the channel up-down buttons on TV remotes. Most bookshelf stereo systems made since the mid-'80s have scan/seek tuning of the AM/FM tuner as well, again with manual up/down scan buttons on both the local unit and the remote, and large numbers of memory presets, some (like my Aiwa CX-NA888 bookshelf system) having as many as 32 presets for both AM and FM stations (the presets can be used for AM or FM). These presets, like almost every other function of the system, may be accessed via the remote as well as via buttons on the unit itself.

I don't believe the mystery used a seeker. Rather, it had station presets on the dial. It works like a rotary telephone dial and sends a number of pulses corresponding to the station selected. The radio has a stepper motor that ratchets the number of pulses dialed.

It's described in detail here: http://www.philcorepairbench.com/mystery/operation.htm

The one I did was a 39-116, if I recall. I'll look up the Rider's on it and see if I can post a copy.

Charles


I've had more than a half-dozen of that model, and they all used a stepper motor to choose between the preset padders for each pretuned station. There was no "signal-seeking" by any standard definition.

The "signal seeker" was a function on some...

Thanks for the reply, but I am quite familiar with "signal-seeking", although your answer will certainly enlighten & entertain others.

I disagree with your comment that high-end Philcos & Zeniths used "signal seeking" on their radios. What Philco models are you referring to? I know of none offhand that used signal seeking. I can't think offhand of any high-end Zeniths that used it either. Which Zenith models are you referring to?

What I don't understand is how the previous poster thinks that the Philco's with the mystery remote used signal seeking, especially after he supposedly worked on one in the past.

I don't believe the mystery used a seeker. Rather, it had station presets on the dial. It works like a rotary telephone dial and sends a number of pulses corresponding to the station selected. The radio has a stepper motor that ratchets the number of pulses dialed.

It's described in detail here: http://www.philcorepairbench.com/mystery/operation.htm


They really didn't have station presets on the radio dial, the radio had separate indicator windows below the dial for each of the presets, with the remotes having paper station tabs circling the dial to match. The presets are actually padders on the radio chassis. I've had many of these over the years.

I am curious why the previous poster described them as "signal seekers". Maybe he has a different definition of the term?

They really didn't have station presets on the radio dial, the radio had separate indicator windows below the dial for each of the presets, with the remotes having paper station tabs circling the dial to match. The presets are actually padders on the radio chassis. I've had many of these over the years.

I am curious why the previous poster described them as "signal seekers". Maybe he has a different definition of the term?

Thanks for the information. I also have a Philco 39-30 which I think uses a similar idea. There are paper inserts for the stations above pushbuttons that correspond to padders inside.

I'm not sure what the previous poster meant by "seekers" either. Maybe he's thinking of Philco's "magnetic tuning" ?

Getting back to the original topic... Does anyone know why RF/wireless remotes seem to have been abandoned in post-war sets?

Thanks for the information. I also have a Philco 39-30 which I think uses a similar idea. There are paper inserts for the stations above pushbuttons that correspond to padders inside.

I'm not sure what the previous poster meant by "seekers" either. Maybe he's thinking of Philco's "magnetic tuning" ?

Magnetic Tuning confusion wouldn't be likely, as that was an AFC circuit that was on earlier Philcos without the remote control abilities. It didn't tune from one station to another. I think perhaps he is just suffering from poor memory or an earlier misconception. In fact I don't recall ever having a signal-seeking prewar radio, or if any even existed that early.

Your Philco 39-30 does use a similar tuning system in that it has separate station presets, with the notable exception that stations are selected by mechanical pushbuttons rather than a motor driven by a remote.

Getting back to to original topic... Does anyone know why RF/wireless remotes seem to have been abandoned in post-war sets?

I would guess that the additional cost and the quirkiness of the Philco remotes may have lead to their demise. Also there was a lot of low cost competition in the market after the war.

Many radio collectors would probably agree that the overall quality of radios was lower after the war, even though their reliability may have been better. After the war many builders didn't even offer what would have been considered a high-end set.

Thanks, it took me 4 years to track one down at a reasonable price.

I don't have a compatible set, although I do have 5 Philco radios including 2 big consoles. I had to limit my madness :)

You may have noticed a huge console behind my Admiral sets. That's the greatest score of my life. It's Philco a 15DX. Built at the height of the depression in 1932 it sold for $250 (about $3,000 today) and only 1100 were made. I got it for $10 :D

I've been doing a lot of homework before I even think about touching it. Maybe I'll start on it this fall.

Here's more photos if you're interested: http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/sets/72157618650578066/detail/
I just spotted this post, that is the coolest radio I've seen. I too would be very careful and wary about restoring it. I would assume that it's a keeper:D

I just spotted this post, that is the coolest radio I've seen. I too would be very careful and wary about restoring it. I would assume that it's a keeper:D

Yeah, I think I'll hang on to it :D I'm really itching to start in on the radio. It has something called 'shadow tuning' I've never seen working in person. It's sort of a precursor to the 'eye' tube.

I did a little research on the history of remotes and it seems that between the 1939 Mystery and the 1955 Flashmatic, there just weren't any wireless remotes. Weird.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_control