In the New York City area, FM pirate stations keep popping up like weeds in the inner city regions of the metro area. Now that the big boy analog stations have shut down on 2, 4, 5, 9 someone might think that an opportunity to serve their community with a pirate analog TV station has arrived.

Back in around 1978 in Syracuse NY, someone put a pirate TV station on channel 7 during a weekend. There was a short article in the New York Times about it. Rumor had it that someone modified a guitar amp to build the transmitter. Not as crazy as it first sounds, the audio output vacuum tube could easily operate on VHF. You'd remove the audio output transformer, and the old driver circuits could be rebuilt to run at VHF. Building a reasonable video modulator circuit would take some work, but a week or two of solder slinging should be sufficient. Audio is just an FM radio station modulator at 4.5MHz and then add it to the video, then feed that to the video modulator.

You'd need a lot of power compared to a simple FM audio signal - and even a 200KHz FM signal isn't the easiest to get out there, unless you live on top of a building and have a great LOS.

Couple interesting mentions here though...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_television#Known_stations

None here that I've seen yet, but there are still several Canadian stations, and a couple LPTV stations broadcasting.

Well Canada isn't switching till 2011, so those will be on for a few years still.

But that would be awesome to see all kinds of pirate stations! I wonder what kind of things they'll broadcast?
DVDs of old TV shows? home videos? youtube videos? but whatever they broadcast, that would be something interesting to see.

I doubt anyone will do that around where I live though. The city isn't really big enough. And even with rabbit ears, I have trouble picking up the real TV stations, let alone pirate ones, which probabally would be much lower powered.

Yes, I know Canada's keeping Analog until 2011. Luckily I can get channel 9, 16, 32, 42 on a good day with a strong antenna, and 54, which is French, so fat lot of good it does me.

I wonder if I'll be able to at least get Channel 9 and 32 after they go all digital? I might need one hell of an antenna...

Yes, I know Canada's keeping Analog until 2011. Luckily I can get channel 9, 16, 32, 42 on a good day with a strong antenna, and 54, which is French, so fat lot of good it does me.

I wonder if I'll be able to at least get Channel 9 and 32 after they go all digital? I might need one hell of an antenna...

You get all those channels? Where do you live?

Here in central SK, there's 4, 8, 11, and 13, which is french.
even with a big ass areal on the roof.


I imagine you're gonna have to get a really huge UHF antenna to pull in the digital stations.

Detroit, near Windsor Canada. All kinds of Canadian TV and FM stations, with a good enough antenna.

I did a complete check of what I could receive this morning using the antenna on the roof and the rotator. To my disappointment, no pirate tv. I checked all the channels 1-83.

I'd think a pirate wouldn't aim for anything above Channel 69, because that band is now crowded with radio and cell phone transmissions, and a pirate signal would be easily noticed due to the interference.

Realistically, if I were to set up a pirate station, I'd aim for VHF, because the signal would go farther. I'd also use an unoccupied channel, since one of the reasons for the switchover is that the digital stations will now be using the same 6 mhz bandwidth per channel formerly assigned to the analog stations.

I figured I would check every channel just in case, I wasn't expecting anything on channel 1 either. I'm not sure about this, but I thought they weren't using ch 2-6 anymore? If so, maybe that would probably be the most likely place to find them?

I'd think a pirate wouldn't aim for anything above Channel 69, because that band is now crowded with radio and cell phone transmissions, and a pirate signal would be easily noticed due to the interference.

Realistically, if I were to set up a pirate station, I'd aim for VHF, because the signal would go farther. I'd also use an unoccupied channel, since one of the reasons for the switchover is that the digital stations will now be using the same 6 mhz bandwidth per channel formerly assigned to the analog stations.

Is there a way to pick up any of these cell phone conversations on the upper UHF area? I just hooked the rooftop areal to the UHF screws, and got nothing, except for what I think is an extremely distant station only strong enough to make the snow in that part of the dial look and sound different.

I do remember being able to pick up people talking occasionally around channel 83 though. Ah them's the days lol... well im interested in SW radio and all that shit, so it would be interesting to get cell phone conversations and other such awesome stuff in the upper UHF range.

edit

I found our 4 analog still running this am when i tried them out:dunno:
tal

Is there a way to pick up any of these cell phone conversations on the upper UHF area? . They are all digital now. So, no you can't pick up cell phone conversations. 5-10 years ago when there were still FM analog cellular systems, yes, you could receive those between 800 and 900 mHz.

Far as I know, they ARE still using the lower VHF band for digital TV transmissions, which I guess is why they scrapped Analog entirely.

That would explain why before the transition, none of the physical channel numbers matched their analog counterparts...

OK, OK-- So why hasn't this thread exploded? I guess there just aren't many tv pirates left...

Here in NYC I cannot seem to find any. I've got 3 analog UHF channels and nothing on VHF at this point.

Anyone else care to report their findings?

Nothing here.:thumbsdn:

Still 4 here..
tal

The "TV pirates" I have heard about, broke into the signals of regular TV stations. Putting your own TV signal on the air, with a signal range wide enough to be received by ordinary viewers with average TV antennas, is a lot more complex than having a pirate AM or FM radio station. Next, you need to have programming. Most pirates would not want to show their picture on the screen (and be easy to identify when it is time to arrest them). So, if they just ran old recorded TV shows or something most of the time, any viewers might not even know it was a pirate station unless they paid good attention.

Having said all of this, I do occasionally put my own TV station on the air here in the Bay Area. It is, however, FCC-licensed, on the UHF ham radio bands.

I can recall first dicovering TV DX as a kid. One night, it was getting close to 10, I was twisting the UHF dial of the old GE when I found a station in the low 40s. But we didn't have such a station locally-wow! So I told my mother...she had apparently heard about pirate stations, and told me that was probably what it was. Sure caught my attention! Later I realized it was ch. 43 out of Philadelphia.

I tried DXing late last night but no luck. Tried a bunch of sets. Guess there just aren't any analog stations left ... and I have a slim to none chance of picking up other countries of course!

I still occasionally try to see what analog tv I can pick up here. No pirate tv yet, just legitimate Canadian stations.

I haven't caught anything but a couple of LP UHF stations.

So, any update on unexplained "pirate" analog TV popping up?
On occasion I do a quick scan of the airwaves on VHF and UHF, but it's mostly all digital signal noise.

I've contemplated setting something up. I liked to idea of using a channel that was in use, so that if someone turned an analog set on it would likely already be tuned in. Channel 2 was in use here, but there is no DTV down that low and as far as I know the low VHF channels haven't been reallocated to other services.

I picked up some kind of VHF Low base station transmitter thinking I may be able to feed a modulator into it's output stage. Then I shelved the idea because I really don't know enough about RF to do this without making a mess.

Proven kits for FM broadcast transmitters up to 100W or so are easy enough to find, but I haven't seen anything for TV (not that I've been looking seriously).

mmmmm my own Wayne and Garth station.....

more practical back in the 80's..... today there is youtube...

.

I could see it perhaps serving a somewhat practical purpose in areas where the internet isn't good enough to stream reliably. Play stuff that's popular/recent enough and people would probably watch. You may not last long before getting busted for an unlicensed transmitter, copyright or both.

As far a DXing goes, I've had good luck with digital,
gettng from here in central IL down to central KY and
northern TN and over in SE MO. I used a 16 element Ch 44 Yagi and
a 0.5 dB GaAsFet preamp. That was in my old 3rd
floor apartment, however.

You need a spectrum analyzer to find them, however,
before using a TV. One of those $20 USA DVB-T dongles and SDR#
works fine.

My block has an 3 unlicensed TV transmitters covering part to all of it. I'll give ya one guess who's they are.

You need a spectrum analyzer to find them, however, before using a TV. One of those $20 USA DVB-T dongles and SDR# works fine.


Am I interpreting this right that you're basically using the off the shelf ADC hardware in the dongle with the SDR# suite to run analasys on the video broadcast spectrum (and anything in between)? Can you recommend a really cheap but good coverage dongle? Dont' get me wrong, I do love my my HP CaLan, but it's almost a "vintage" piece itself at this point. :yes:

By this date I can't imagine anyone doing a pirate analog station.
Who's going to receive it when nobody's using an analog set?
Well almost nobody, but seriously, what are the chances someone would be tuned in at any given moment?

By this date I can't imagine anyone doing a pirate analog station.
Who's going to receive it when nobody's using an analog set?
Well almost nobody, but seriously, what are the chances someone would be tuned in at any given moment?

I bet if you ran it on ch3 you'd get a few hits a week, since that's the default channel on most sets on powerup.

I also think we're at a point that an ATSC pirate station could be a thing...

Eric, I believe you are absolutely right. With the exception of antique/vintage TV collectors, no one much owns or uses analog televisions anymore, so any pirate NTSC TV stations would have few if any viewers--until the FCC caught up with them and shut them down.

As far a DXing goes, I've had good luck with digital,
gettng from here in central IL down to central KY and
northern TN and over in SE MO. I used a 16 element Ch 44 Yagi and
a 0.5 dB GaAsFet preamp. That was in my old 3rd
floor apartment, however.

You need a spectrum analyzer to find them, however,
before using a TV. One of those $20 USA DVB-T dongles and SDR#
works fine.

If you don't mind, I have no idea what some of these items are, could you explain more....?

And on the antenna and pre-amp could you post the brand and model....?
I know what the spectrum analyzer is and does...

Did you mount the pre-amp near the antenna? I got mine 30 feet down the wire, do you
think it makes much of a difference....? About 50 feet to the first tv.... Pre-amp, and distribution
amp are 12" apart.... all the proper splitters and end caps on on taps not used.....


Thanks.... :)

.

My block has an 3 unlicensed TV transmitters covering part to all of it. I'll give ya one guess who's they are.


:thmbsp: The best way to feed the old TVs !

I never liked the idea of running wire to a converter box for our old TVs , and a low power setup that doesn't bother anyone with interference is the way to go . To me nothing looks cleaner than an old TV with nothing but a set of rabbit ears on top feeding it's 300 ohm twin lead right onto the screws on the back of the set .

FCC likes sending out letters to illegal broadcasters to cease operation or forfeit $10,000+. They like big numbers. Every so often I will read about one they caught. Usually illegal FM broadcasters but I suppose TV signals where they aren't supposed to be would qualify too. Of course they have to catch you first.

We still have one analog station left on the air in DFW, legitimately. Ch 22 KNAV-LP. It carries HOT Tv.

FCC likes sending out letters to illegal broadcasters to cease operation or forfeit $10,000+. They like big numbers. Every so often I will read about one they caught. Usually illegal FM broadcasters but I suppose TV signals where they aren't supposed to be would qualify too. Of course they have to catch you first.

I look at these lists once in a while to see how many pirates have been caught... the NOUO (notice of unlicensed operations) *mostly* go out to FM pirates, while NOV (notice of violation) are issued to licensed broadcasters that have violated a FCC regulation. Fines are shown on the second list. I don't recall ever seeing a "TV pirate" busted or fined, but I'm guessing that only a small percentage of pirates are caught.

http://transition.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/
http://transition.fcc.gov/eb/rfo/ActAct.html

jr

ARrrrrrrr... A few FM pirates and up until recent times one really strong AM. None on TV.

If you don't mind, I have no idea what some of these items are, could you explain more....?

And on the antenna and pre-amp could you post the brand and model....?

The antenna is homemade, from a recipe for 420 MHz in the
ARRL antenna handbook, suitably scaled down in size. It
is made entirely of 3/8 inch and 1.8 copper tubing, though rod is better.

The preamp is from Advanced Receiver Research, a custom one
the same as a P432VDG except the 432 is changed to the
frequency of the center TV channel.

I know what the spectrum analyzer is and does...

Did you mount the pre-amp near the antenna?
Yes, but that's a given for my situation since the antenna
is indoors about 3 feet from the receiver setup. I really needed
the 0.5 dB noise figure and very high overload capability. $100.

I got mine 30 feet down the wire, do you
think it makes much of a difference....?

At UHF yes.

About 50 feet to the first tv.... Pre-amp, and distribution
amp are 12" apart.... all the proper splitters and end caps on on taps not used.....


Thanks.... :)

.

See inserts above

I look at these lists once in a while to see how many pirates have been caught... the NOUO (notice of unlicensed operations) *mostly* go out to FM pirates,



Looks like a lot of these notices get mailed to landlords. When some tenant set up a pirate station. I can imagine a landlord trying to figure out which tenant is the pirate, and figuring out how to make him stop. The cops are likely too busy with drugs and murders to care.

Looks like a lot of these notices get mailed to landlords. When some tenant set up a pirate station. I can imagine a landlord trying to figure out which tenant is the pirate, and figuring out how to make him stop.

True indeed, the FCC usually sends a notice to all persons associated with a given location, including property owners... I suspect that the landlord would be motivated to find out which tenant is broadcasting, and put a stop to it. :scratch2:

I remember one case where a pirate installed his transmitting antenna on a city-owned water tower... the city got a NOUO and the transmissions quickly stopped!

jr

dtvmcdonald; Thank you :)

.

I was much happier with analog.. At least if you didn't get the station 100% you were still able to watch it.. It seems to be much harder to pick up a digital signal.. With just running a wire for an antenna, I'm not able to pick anything up without a constant stutter and pixel blotching of digital signal.. I went over to wallyworld and bought a $40 RCA digital amplified antenna and that seemed to work much better, but still it was picky where I put the antenna, luckily it has a long wire...

Wonder who will be the first to set up a digital TV pirate station? :D

I wonder if even less people would see a pirate DTV station than an analog one. Unless you happen be to be scanning for channels while they're transmitting you'd never see it. The odds of catching it may even be less than for an analog pirate on channel 3...

It does lead me to wonder if any licensed amateur TV operators are doing digital now.

Theres an old page from 2005 at http://bellard.org/dvbt/ showing how to generate a VHF DVB-T signal from a PC videocard. Though the examples appear to only deal with still images and I doubt the page will be updated anytime soon. Similar techniques could probably used for ATSC.

...Though the examples appear to only deal with still images and I doubt the page will be updated anytime soon. Similar techniques could probably used for ATSC.
The RF signal is precoded as video samples. If your PC monitor could sync to it, you would see a frame of noise-like "snow." The precoding is a far-too-slow software process to do real time video, but is a clever way to get a file that produces a valid signal for a still picture. This has to be done carefully so that a repeated frame of samples makes a valid continuous RF video signal. There would be many ways to make mistakes that would cause the receiver to hiccup or not decode this at all. The poster did an excellent job.

Edit: ATSC has a data frame structure lasting about 1/40 of a second. It also has a convolutional interleaver that spreads data from one frame to the next. This might pose a problem in creating a video frame representing a repeating RF signal of this duration.

It does lead me to wonder if any licensed amateur TV operators are doing digital now.
Yes indeed! Here is a good one in Australia:

http://www.vk3rtv.com/