View Full Version : Tuning up a 1988 Zenith System 3 that I found.


MRX37
02-16-2009, 08:31 PM
Now that I actually have a camera capable of taking clear shots of small text, maybe these images will help identify just what kind of Zenith I have here:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o121/mrx3750/zenith1-2.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o121/mrx3750/zenith1-1.jpg

So far I've replaced the one lytic cap on the CRT neck board (10uf, measured at 7.6uf). I also replaced the main filter cap (a 680uf@200 volt cap, replaced it with a slightly smaller 680uf@250 volt cap.) And I replaced a 33uf@200 volt cap that's near a heatsink. It tested fine, but judging from the label, it's seen some heat. I replaced these caps mainly because after 20 years of use, they're probably ready to be retired. These cap changes haven't affected the following problems:

I still have a few small issues with this TV. I've occasionally noticed that there's a sort of stripe on the left side of the screen that's a bit brighter then the rest of the picture. It only appears in some scenes though. Also, when watching a letterboxed program, the black borders will become brighter when the scene is bright. That makes adjusting the black levels hellish, as I use those black borders to set the brightness/contrast. The picture also changes size depending on how bright or dim it is. I'd guess that this is normal.

Also, I've noticed that the audio kinda crackles and pops when a loud sound is playing. Most noticable in videogames. the speakers appear to be fine though, because I can turn the volume up and it sounds fine, but if the sound is loud, it crackles regardless of how low or high the volume is.

This TV is unique to me. It's unique because it works, but I can't really sell it. Picture's still pretty good overall. CRT seems to have some life left in it. The electronic keypad on the front is damaged. Cosmetic damage, it still works fine. However this damage makes this TV unsellable. This is fine with me as I wouldn't mind a TV in my bedroom that's cable ready and works with a universal remote... I'd like to whip this Zenith into shape if I can.

zenith2134
02-16-2009, 08:44 PM
Sounds like it's off to a good start. The 'stripe' you speak of could be two things. First, if the purity is off there could be a permanent stripe on one side of the picture. Second, there is probably a small capacitor in the video supply circuit which has gone down in value. Very common.

If you wanna whip it into shape, of course set the greyscale and focus, clean the crt neckpins with DeOxit, and make sure to reseat all of the module pin-connectors/clean with deoxit. These can cause a hell of a lot of intermittent issues.

One more tip that I like: Run the set with the brightness, color, and contrast at maximum (tint at half) for 20 minutes. This supposedly cleans residue off of the electron guns allowing them to work better.

MRX37
02-16-2009, 10:07 PM
I don't believe the stripe is a purity issue. The color is not affected, just the brightness.

Also, where the hell is the video supply circuit? Is it on the main chassis board?

I'm not too worried about the electron guns. Sure the CRT's seen some hours, but it's got life left in it.

zenith2134
02-16-2009, 10:28 PM
Not too familiar with that model, but I'd look for dried caps (near heat) on the 9-770 and the video output board. The 9-728 has the color decoding and matrix stuff, not too sure if there are any drive voltages derived there.

As for the guns, even on a crt that tests 110%, you can improve overall focus and color tracking by performing this procedure. Really nothing to lose IMO.

MRX37
02-16-2009, 10:52 PM
Well, I'll worry about the guns after I solve the stripe, and the audio popping issue.

PS: One thing I forgot to mention: The replacement 680uf cap I put in is only rated for 85 degrees Celsius. the original was rated for 105 degrees Celsius. I don't *think* this will be an issue, as that cap isn't next to anything that gets hot, and the old cap's label didn't shrink any, which I'm sure it would have done if it actually got up to 85 degrees Celsius.

zenith2134
02-16-2009, 11:23 PM
Using an 85C cap in a circuit that calls for 105C is counterproductive IMO. Sure, it'll be fine for awhile but its just bad practice. That said, in this TV it really doesn't matter. With quality audio gear or a very collectible set I wouldn't do it though.

Forgot to chime in about the audio popping issue. I'm not sure what you mean. Does the output simply clip on peaks? (more prevalent in video games and DVD since they have more range than most broadcasts)

If its more of a crackle sound, its likely a bad connection or dying electrolytic filters.

MRX37
02-16-2009, 11:53 PM
Of course I'm not going to use an 85C cap in an area that actually gets hot, but in this case I had a couple 680uf caps from a 2003 Sony TV, they're rated for 50 volts higher then the old cap was, and while slightly smaller, the leads fit just fine. I consider the smaller size an advantage too, more air space around it.

The audio issue is weird. It's only showed up in video games so far, and shows up on loud sounds. This is the only TV that's done this with that game system, and that RF modulator.

zenith2134
02-17-2009, 12:51 AM
Hmm, thats a headscratcher. Maybe the AGC control needs adjusting. Since you're running composite video through a modulator, the signal may be too 'hot' for the RF section of the Zenith. Worth a try...

MRX37
02-17-2009, 01:00 AM
Hmm, thats a headscratcher. Maybe the AGC control needs adjusting. Since you're running composite video through a modulator, the signal may be too 'hot' for the RF section of the Zenith. Worth a try...

Could I test that by attenuating the signal, say by running it through 100 feet of cable?

Still, the left side of the screen sometimes being brighter is more of a concern. is the video module on the main board itself, or seperate from the main board?

i'll snap a pic of the inside of the TV if it'll help.

zenith2134
02-17-2009, 01:11 AM
The 9-728 board and the 9-466 board are where you wanna be looking, as far as the video problem. Again, make sure to unsnap and reinstall ALL of those module connectors. If possible spray em all with cleaner or use an old toothbrush and isopropyl. This is standard practice whenever I open up an 80s Zenith.

You could try spooling up some coax cable to see if it attenuates the signal a lot, but IMO it'll take a heck of a lot to do so. Depends on the cable's resistance/inductance etc.

Quick and dirty test: unplug the F- connector from the set and hold it very close to the port, aor hanging out of the port, to get a snowy picture. This should help you decide if something's getting overloaded.

MRX37
02-17-2009, 01:09 PM
I'm going to work on this TV somemore tonight when I have the time. In the meantime, here's a pic of the brighter stripe I was talking about:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o121/mrx3750/zenith-3.jpg

You can really see it in the black border in the top left corner of the screen. This brighter area is only sometimes there. It may depend on how bright the scene is, I'm not sure.

zenith2134
02-17-2009, 01:22 PM
Based on the pic, I'd say it's the video caps for sure. If you notice, the black level isn't uniform on the left side of the screen, from top to bottom.

Check the main filter caps and the supply going to the video output board. If the video output transistors aren't getting a steady supply (dried up filter caps) this can happen.

RobtWB
02-17-2009, 01:26 PM
About a year and a half ago I picked up a SE2023W set at an estate sale. It dates to September 1988. The reasons I brought it home were that it was obviously a low hour set, and it had the original rabbitt ears and bowtie still wrapped in the original packaging sticking on top of the set. The case was also flawless. No scratches, dings, dents, fingerprints etc. IIRC I paid a whole 25$ for the set.

The set has the Zenith hallmark of incredible color saturation.

Like my 1991 Panasonic 19 inch tabletop set, a simple elagant set of a quality no longer produced anywhere.

For a 20 year old set I was amazed that the set still produced such a fine picture. I was sure that I would have seen signs of aging components with this set, but not so.

I used the set with rabbitt ears as a bedroom set for a while, but now it resides in the utility room, in storage with a bunch of other sets.

zenith2134
02-17-2009, 01:29 PM
Well I got an '89 the other day and it does work but the crt is aging rapidly. I don't think it will last much longer, but judging from the inside this one saw a TON of use.

MRX37
02-18-2009, 01:19 AM
Here's a picture of what this bastard looks like inside.
http://i44.tinypic.com/352hwxw.jpg

Can anyone here tell me where the video output boiard is from this pic? is it on the main board or is it one of the modules?

Too many wires... and many of them have connectors that look alike. Thank god I have enough sense to mark similar looking connectors with a Sharpie so I can tell what goes where.

radiotvnut
02-18-2009, 01:17 PM
Here's a picture of what this bastard looks like inside.
http://i44.tinypic.com/352hwxw.jpg

Can anyone here tell me where the video output boiard is from this pic? is it on the main board or is it one of the modules?

Too many wires... and many of them have connectors that look alike. Thank god I have enough sense to mark similar looking connectors with a Sharpie so I can tell what goes where.

The video output board is the module that plugs into the CRT neck. I know what you mean about those wires. They are usually marked; but, not very well. And, they make it very hard to pull the chassis for service with everything connected.

MRX37
02-18-2009, 01:48 PM
Well hell, I've already changed the one bad lytic cap on the CRT neck board. What else would be causing the uneven black level?

roundscreen
02-18-2009, 07:22 PM
Well hell, I've already changed the one bad lytic cap on the CRT neck board. What else would be causing the uneven black level?

Look for a 4.7 or 10 uf cap @ 250 v cap near the fly back transformer. That set has a scan power supply and the power for the video comes from the flyback transformer. If you do not see one there look for the same value caps on the crt board itself.
Ed

MRX37
02-18-2009, 07:44 PM
There is only one electrolytic cap on the CRT neck board, a 10uf@50 volt, which I've already replaced.

I did replace one 33uf@200 volt cap near the flyback. It tested good, but it's seen some heat.

Okay, I'll focus on the caps around the flyback when I get time to mess with it again.

MRX37
02-18-2009, 10:19 PM
There are only three electrolytic caps near the flyback, and they all test fine. Any other ideas as to what's causing the uneven black level?

(No, it's not phosphor burn in.)

wa2ise
02-19-2009, 12:01 AM
Weak (dried out) caps anywhere in the video signal path will do that. Even the small ones, like 10uF coupling caps.

MRX37
02-19-2009, 01:48 PM
Weak (dried out) caps anywhere in the video signal path will do that. Even the small ones, like 10uF coupling caps.

So, I go back to my initial question. Where do I look for these caps? On the main board, on a seperate module? There's probably 500 lytic caps in this TV, and going through and testing each and every one is frankly not worth the trouble.

MRX37
03-09-2009, 04:38 PM
Okay, an update for you all:

After setting this TV aside for awhile, I went back and replaced a 33uf@200 volt cap that tested good, but was a bit on the low side. This might have solved my uneven black level, but I can't be sure, as now the brightness seems to be fluxuating, like maybe the brightness knob is dirty. When i first powered it up after installing the new cap, the G2 was up so high that retrace lines appeared. I lowered the G2, but the picture's brightness still seems to be fluxuating.

I'm going to clean the front panel controls later, but I'm wondering if the flyback G2 control is also dirty and whether or not it's safe to squirt anything into it.

radiotvnut
03-09-2009, 05:40 PM
See if there is a screwdrived adjustment hold near the customer controls marked "BR". This is the brightness range control and may need to be turned down a little. I had a Zenith come in awhile back where someone had maxed out the control and it was very bright and flickering.

MRX37
03-09-2009, 10:29 PM
Okay, figure out this one if you can:

My flickering brightness only happens when the TV first powers up, and only AFTER it's been unplugged for awhile.

This TV always showed retrace lines when it was first turned on after being plugged in, and these always go away in a few seconds. This flickering brightness also goes away after a few seconds, and won't return unless I unplug the TV and let it sit for a bit then plug it back in and power it up.

If it's nothing serious, then I won't worry about it, as the uneven black level issue seems to be fixed now.

EDIT: NOPE! the uneven black level is still there. But after the Tv running for a bit, the brightness flickered again and the black level is even right now. I don't get it...