Read the following story from the AP wires:

01:34 PM CST on Thursday, January 8, 2009

Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- President-elect Barack Obama is urging Congress to postpone the Feb. 17 switch from analog to digital television broadcasting.

In a letter to key lawmakers, transition team co-chair John Podesta warned Thursday that too many Americans who rely on analog TV sets to pick up over-the-air broadcasts won't be ready.

The incoming administration is pushing for a delay in part because the Commerce Department has run out of money for the coupons that subsidize digital TV converter boxes for consumers. People who don't have cable or satellite TV or a new TV with a digital tuner will need the converter boxes to keep their analog TVs working.

Obama officials are also concerned that the government is not giving consumers enough help with the TV transition.

Related to this - I applied for the converter box coupons for an elderly neighbor of mine and received this response:

"We have determined that your household is eligible to participate in this program. However, at this time program funding is not currently available to fulfill your request. Your application has been placed on a waiting list...When and if funds become available, coupon requests will be fulfilled on a first-come, first-served basis."

Nice - so they've already run out of money. I wonder if they accounted for all the coupons that were unused or never received and expired. I myself never did receive the first coupons sent to me. When I contacted them stating eight months had passed and I never received the coupons, I was denied replacements because I "already received two coupons!" Typical government response. I had to use the address of the vacant lot next door to get another set mailed to me.

That is because people are getting the coupons and either selling the coupons or the converter boxes on CL to make cash.

That is because people are getting the coupons and either selling the coupons or the converter boxes on CL to make cash.

I've noticed this too.

If I qualified for a coupon and then decided to update my system so the box is not needed, I too would sell the coupon or the box. It does not affect the government program as I can not apply for another.

We could look at the slowdown of the conversion in another way, by halting the changeover, it reduces the investment by the roughly 1,000,000 persons that could be spending money to stimulate the economy. I'm not sure what the price of the box is but simply do the math. It may be better to withdraw the coupons and maintain the date. This would promote the sale of boxes or even new televisions in a short term stimulatng the economy.

Of course the government could have simply allowed a deduction against income on the tax return or a refundable tax credit and done away with the overhead of the program all together. The economic stimulus package last year required even those who were not required to file a tax return so it could have been added in on the return and accomplished it.

Just to let you guys know it's illegal to sell the coupons. However it's okay to sell the converter box after you purchased it. You can also give the coupons away for free which I've seen people done on freecycle...

One thing will always be true. No matter how much time is given, or how many times the program is extended, there will be some people not on board for any number of reasons (or is that excuses?).

I have to wonder how much will be left on analog even if they delay the switch. As mentioned before, there is only one station left broadcasting NTSC in our small market.

Whenever the switch is made you can bet some will be left in the dark. Stores will sell out of converters the next day...if even it is 2 years from now.

How many years is this already behind schedule? Give me a break. Where is the entitlement to DTV written in the Constitution or Bill of Rights? Not to sound overly callous, especially to those truely in hard times, but I put this in the same pisses me off bucket as pan handlers on the street smoking cigs and talking on cell phones.

Got my coupons and boxes early. But I'd be just as happy to stick with analog. Like the analog to digital transition with cellphones...with a weak signal analog, at least you could still talk; with digital--dropout. Same with digital TV signals...if weak, then dropout.

Helps us in the TV repair business. The money was a down payment for the VHF bandwidth auction, which has yet to happen. The auction money was projected at something like 500 million $$, and that money has already been "spent" budget wise 2 years ago!

The thing I find most interesting about this whole issue is that the only folks going dark are the small minority who have broadcast TV only and a set without an ATSC tuner.

If you have cable or satellite, you're fine. If you've bought a decent TV in the last several years, your fine.

Most of the systems in this country rely on good ol RF distribution NTSC signals from the head end on out...as long as you're plugged into one of these systems and they don't stop sending out an NTSC signal, you're good!

I can tell you first hand that many of the hotels and universities out there are decidedly NOT going to stop sending out NTSC analog signals over their networks...just like most US communities that get their signal over CATV systems.

So why does everyone want one of these silly converters? Are they all broadcast only? Or are they just looking to pick up the ATSC and NTSC signals riding along their CATV lines?

TV <> life support equipment. Make the switch and be done with it, for Christ's sake.

In my area two of the three cable suppliers I know about (The two in question being Verizon and RCN) don't send out anything but digital anymore. Analog gets just a blank screen. Some people buy the converter boxes to try to aleviate this but of course they just come back. What I'm really interested is an ATSC-NTSC channel set converter so you could use the NTSC tuner of a vintage set. Once upon a time you used to be able to get such a thing for cable.

You need a QAM tuner to pull digital TV signals off CATV.

An ATSC tuner is only for digital OTA broadcasts. The DTV boxes related to the switchover do nothing for tuning in digital cable channels.

As someone else mentioned, if you already have CATV, there isn't any need for a digital STB unless your cable co has digital service and you want it.

What EchoWars does not realize is that TV IS life support during severe weather.

What EchoWars does not realize is that TV IS life support during severe weather.

It is here. The ABC affiliate does an excellent job of staying on top of bad weather and breaking in on regular programming if things get rough. I can't say the same for radio; since most of the stations are automated and there's no real people left to take over in the event of bad weather.

Happily there is still AM and portable radios as well as SW. We may complain there are too many talk stations but in times of storms and AC being out, there is a source of information. Sadly, up here when the weather just looks bad the cable goes out.

I will be building one of these this weekend: http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=175571

What EchoWars does not realize is that TV IS life support during severe weather.The current residence is fine. but at the old house a few blocks away, a stiff breeze was enough to cause the whole block (and sometimes large sections of this town) to lose power. This, in a corner of Tornado Alley.

Point being, if you're relying on AC power delivered from the power company to be able to watch TV during severe weather, you're not thinking straight.

EchoWars, with all due respect, that is true, but it will be pretty impossible to use the ATSC system on batteries...you would likely need a generator to use TV in that case, whereas the old LCD 'watchmen' type TVs would pick up analog fine (albeit a bit snowy, but usable...)

As for the possible transition postponement, what gives? Just make a move already. As much as I like NTSC, the switch is inevitable so just 'cut the cord' already.... Isn't this the third or fourth time its being pushed back?

All of this talk of pushing back the date makes me think of the saying, "either $h!t or get off the pot".

EchoWars, with all due respect, that is true, but it will be pretty impossible to use the ATSC system on batteries...you would likely need a generator to use TV in that case, whereas the old LCD 'watchmen' type TVs would pick up analog fine (albeit a bit snowy, but usable...)Your post is a non-sequitur to me. Emergency? No AC power? Grab the damn portable radio. TV isn't the only source for information in a crisis.

HA! Never said it was. I hate TV as much as the next guy. When I patch up a set after repairs, I put it aside and it rarely gets used. Idiotbox=Unnecessary. Emergency? Radios are fine!

EchoWars, with all due respect, that is true, but it will be pretty impossible to use the ATSC system on batteries...
I bought an Artec DTV conterter box that runs on external 12VDC to use with my Sony KV-9PT60 AC-DC 9" TV just in case. Battery powered ATSC is doable.


As for the possible transition postponement, what gives? Just make a move already. As much as I like NTSC, the switch is inevitable so just 'cut the cord' already.... Isn't this the third or fourth time its being pushed back?

Indeed. Get on with it, do the inevitable, and work out the bugs when it's done. The Feds have already sold off a lot of the spectrum. Like putting off that visit to the dentist for a root canal... it's going to happen eventually! I do think the middle of Feb was a bad timing choice though. Not very conducive for rooftop antenna work.

The stations transmitting are essentially the same in many (most?) cases and the antennas aren't anything special...plain old VHF or UHF they are.

My point is that I'm not sure much antenna work is even necessary in the transition.

The stations transmitting are essentially the same in many (most?) cases and the antennas aren't anything special...plain old VHF or UHF they are.

My point is that I'm not sure much antenna work is even necessary in the transition.

Yep theoretically that should be the way it works. But some people (like me) that had not so optimum UHF reception (but watchable) found out that not all the digital counterparts were received well enough to keep a good lock on the digital signal. I had to physically relocate my Winegard roof antenna to get it out of some multipath or shadows or whatever was disrupting things. As far as the antenna is concerned, it's all RF, the transmission mode doesn't matter. I constantly hear about people locally that can receive all the channels on UHF fine, except Ch8 that transmits DTV on VHF Ch9 is a problem for many folks. After the transition those same folks will probably lose two more 11 and 52 when they move to actual ch 11 and 9 (and digital 8 moves back 8 where they've been analog since 3-17-1950.) So in DFW we will have a mix of mostly UHFs with 3 channels on VHF. Seems to me if they wanted to simplify reception the FCC would have moved all TV transmission to UHF.

Your post is a non-sequitur to me. Emergency? No AC power? Grab the damn portable radio. TV isn't the only source for information in a crisis.

As has been mentioned before, not an option in many cases. Locally there have been blizzards, ice storms, tornadoes, hurricanes, 10-car pile-ups on the highway, floods...turn on the radio and listen to the music because none of the local stations have a real news department and many are fully automated so that there is nobody to read a special announcement. Last year I had a tornado (a very small tornado) come right down the street where I work. I had no idea it might happen-there were 2 radios on in the shop and neither said a word, before or after. The guy who works down the street in a warehouse (which was nearly blown down by the twister) had gone home. Why? His wife was home watching the local news, yep, on good old analog, and called to warn him.

Different, perhaps, in the city where there are news/talk stations and such. The old-style community broadcasters are gone for the most part.

The problem with commercial radio stations is that they do not broadcast emergency weather information anymore-at least around here(TX). With all of the equipment(dual doppler radar, hail detectors, etc.) purchased by the TV stations, TV has taken over the weather information role.

Of course you can buy the specialized weather radios(I have one), but this is still not near the information that can be gleaned from a TV weather warning.

Some parts of the country get tornadoes, and you really would like to see live radar maps of your region on TV. Many DTV stations have sub-channels that display weather info. Portable DTV sets would be good to have, and there's a proposed mobile TV add on to the ATSC standard just released. Severe weather info would be an excellent use for that mobile TV. This mobile TV standard is designed with more rugged error correction and reception under lousy conditions.

We have a station here that broadcasts weather on a subchannel. The problem is RECEIVING the information during bad weather. It has been my experience to date that I receive a frozen picture and no sound on all DTV channels during fairly strong thundersorms. This is while analog, although somewhat snowy, continues right along. It is a weakness in the DTV technology, not what is being broadcast.

We have a station here that broadcasts weather on a subchannel. The problem is RECEIVING the information during bad weather.

Hopefully, this (Mobile/handheld TV) below will be a solution:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/72382

Probably for small handheld displays like those on fancy cell phones. If it works, the reception would be more robust than regular ATSC set top boxes, and hopefully future full size DTV sets could use this new mobile/ handheld signal as a fallback if full HD reception goes bad. Assuming the program is a simulcast of the regular HD program.

"Central to the M/H system are additions to the physical layer of the ATSC transmission
system that are easily decodable under high Doppler rate conditions. Extra training sequences
and forward error correction (FEC) are added to assist reception of the enhanced stream(s).
Consideration has also been given to the many system details that make such a signal compatible
with legacy ATSC receivers, particularly audio decoder buffer constraints; but also such
constraints as MPEG transport packet header standards, requirements for legacy PSIP carriage,
etc. These changes do not alter the emitted spectral characteristics."

-- page 12 of http://www.atsc.org/standards/cs_doc...1-ATSC-M-H.pdf

Sounds like it won't hurt. I wonder why this was not done in the first place.

I would only expect standard definition(good enough for weather info) in the condtions they describe, not High def.

Higher overhead in the stream means less bandwidth available for the programming. This would mean fewer SD channels, or low/no 1080.

What colorfixer says is true, but I would assume, at least for stationary TVs, they would design the system such that the options mentioned by wa2ise would only be selectively used-only during very poor reception conditions.

As to mobile TVs-good luck on getting 1080 on these anyway.